@maxsheerin8219 I've been celibate for 10 years. I broke the cycle of push pull relationships through intensive therapy that was horrible Try again 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👉
Yep, that’s me. Was secure with my fearful avoidant ex, who decided to one day burn everything to the ground and stonewall me (permanently). Now I’m just broken.
Just treat others as superficial as possible while not offending their trauma burdened inner child, Or just let others talk till you have had enough extroversion and then go home and get drunk. It is all BS anyway!
Yea not worth it. I do the same. At the first sign of this type I walk away. I’ve been there too many times and it never ends well and isn’t good for your mental health
Omg love this 😭. I say stuff like this all the time. I think understanding avoidant psychology is useful for healing in that we can see it definitely wasn’t us, but this push to figure out and strategize just to be with someone and sacrifice all our needs for them is simply toxic empathy. You cannot be with a person like this and expect it to be healthy. Ever. Healing does happen in relationships, but many avoidants need to do most of that healing in therapy first before practicing on people with real feelings and needs.
Don’t bother. I’m married to one and it is pure TORTURE. No one should have to work so hard just to have a reciprocal and healthy relationship where they are receiving a normal level of emotional support and love. It’s a bunch of balogna! Save yourself and just walk away from someone like this before you get into a family situation and are financially stuck in a bad economy with insane interest rates. Wish me luck!! ❤
@Dymphna06 was, too. He left me and our daughter from one day to another four days after our daughter graduation party. He left after 29 years without a word.
@@dvegule920 this happened to my mom. She was married 30 years and my dad left her a note taped to the computer. 🖥️ it said “I’m leaving the house.” Turned out he was having an affair with a woman 20 years younger than my mom. It has wrecked me - and that was 25 years ago. I obviously continue to choose unavailable men. I’m ok, I have a job and I love my kids - so it isn’t or wouldn’t be the end of the world.
Bosses won't take half your income if you don't work out. Your workmate won't break your heart. Drinking buddies won't take your kids to another state.
Surface level relationships. You can maintain those relationships for years and never get emotionally vulnerable. An avoidant will never be triggered and likely holds onto those few consistent interactions in their life.
As much as I appreciate the advice, an important thing you didn't mention about what the Gottman's research shows is that stonewalling is one of the 4 major reasons relationships don't work. We can change how we interact with avoidant people, but ultimately they have to do their own work. The example you used where the avoidant essentially needs 8 days to recover... that isn't acceptable. Imagine if that is your spouse and mother/father of your children. It's not acceptable to run away from your problems and responsibilities. It's a risk to enter a relationship with someone who handles their problems that way because the damage it does just repeats cycles of abuse, neglect and dysfunction.
If they run away from their responsibilities, they aren't avoidant, they are irresponsible and immature. People can stonewall, but still do all their duties as a spouse and parent. Gottman is not an oracle on attachment theory, and anyway, since he published his book, there was a lot more research on the subject.
@@silverlinings3946 I’m not sure we can say someone is fulfilling their duties as a spouse if they’re stonewalling their spouse. Communication is essential for running a household, ignoring your spouse and using stonewalling makes that hard. It also damages the relationship. If you’re not trying to preserve and nurture your relationships, I don’t think we can call that doing your duty. Agreed about the immaturity, though.
Exactly. Ok, fine they have issues. Go to therapy and deal with them. I'm a combat vet, I've had childhood trauma(Fearful Avoidant) and sexual assault situations...lots of trauma and ptsd. You can't shit all over other people indefinitely and cry trauma. Face it and deal with it.
@@silverlinings3946 Doing rote tasks without communication and connection is not "doing their duties". Parenting or being married in robot mode and doing the tasks (working, paying bills, shoveling the sidewalk, making dinner, etc) but without communication, connection, empathy, etc. is NOT fulfilling their duties as a parent or partner.
“Creating an environment where they feel safe and understood” can come at a cost to your own well being and mental health. If they aren’t capable of doing the work, it’s better to invest that care, love and healing into yourself.
Here is why many of us fall for the avoidant trap. Secure person that can be pulled anxious here. It is because many people look for a spark rather than a fire. A fire is calm and comforting. But not real exciting. We interact with all sorts of people, but we look for that spark to determine an attraction. Many people mistake feelings of anxiety for a spark. Those feelings of anxiety happen when someone starts to get distant. Secure people don't tend to go distant because it's not a coping method. Avoidants do. So lets say you date 3 identical triplets, 2 secure and 1 avoidant. Those 3 people are nice and tick all your boxes, but you're not sure which one you like or if you have a spark with any. Then one day, one of them starts to pull away, so you wonder about them a little more. Because of our childhood attachments, we are hyper sensitive to when people are pulling away and it causes us a little bit of anxiety. Could be something as simple as a delayed text response or whatever. Anyways, cortisol gets released, and our brains dont like that. We want to resolve the anxiety. So our brains seek to rectify it the only way we know how. By seeking reassurance that we are still cared for. The reassurance soothes our anxiety. This tends to trigger the avoidants anxiety though, which is fear of getting too close. So their anxiety spikes and they get cortisol release. So they revert to their childhood soothing method which is to get a little more distant. This causes your anxiety to spike again. That is the anxious avoidant trap. It's a spiral to crash and burn. Each time they run and we try to draw closer, it actually creates an attraction in our brain. Even if we didn't like them really, because we fear losing them, our brain tricks us that we need them. Because we do in a sense, to calm our anxiety. So we perceive that this need is attraction. We perceive it as a spark. It is an attraction but not out of love, but rather to resolve our insecurities. It becomes an addiction to chemical releases. A trauma bond. Which is why these relationships can get so toxic and so hard to leave, and why people long for their ex's even though they know they are bad for them. Their brains are longing for that fix again. A healthy secure relationship is a slow build of love over time without that push/pull. It's foreign to many of us, but it is what true love and companionship is. Overcoming anxious attachment is not giving in to those anxiety impulses. It's like turning down that big delicious looking meal, because we know it's bad for us. Don't let anxiety affect your decisions on whether to reach out and whatnot. It's a ton easier to do this at the very beginning of a relationship rather than years in when your brain is hooked. Now on how to stop being attracted to avoidants. I am by no means an expert, and on my own journey, but through lots and lots of therapy and research I have found that there are some core things. One, put your love for yourself above any partner. This ensures that you wont settle for being treated poorly. Next, don't chase. You need to learn to identify the anxiety when it happens, do not react on the anxiety, and deal with the anxiety in ways rather than the comfort from the other person. Self soothing methods. This is much easier to do earlier rather than later. If someone starts to pull away, you must let them. If you address it and it continues, you know you have an avoidant. Walk away. If someone wants to be with you, they will make the time to be with you. If they dont, then they aren't the right person for you. Stop focusing on the outcome that you want to make this person yours. Focus instead that you want to find the right person. Three, don't let yourself get attached so fast. Remember, we're building a fire here, not a spark. Real love takes time to grow. It is calm, gentle, strong and warm. Generally a spark will burn itself out pretty fast. Essentially an avoidant partner will show their true colors within like 3-6 months. I have a theory as to why attachment styles change. Because throughout a relationship, a secure person's brain can become addicted to the chemicals. Or the avoidant persons brain can become used to not needing the chemicals as much, etc. But once a secure becomes addicted, even if they get clean, it's much easier to relapse into addiction again. It's so much mind over matter and self respect. Which is why secure people tend to be people that have good confidence and love themselves. You need that to be able to have the strength to walk away. That's why it all comes down to self love. This is also why it's so hard to grieve a relationship especially if you are dumped, and why many insecure people swing to new relationships or rebound so fast. They need that fix to continue. Essentially insecure people become love junkies, and why those that take time to be alone and 'detox' and heal, generally go on to be much more secure and healthy for the next relationship. It's why people go back to toxic ex's. Because they subconsciously know they can get that chemical fix again. You have to love yourself enough to take it slow and respect your boundaries. Love yourself enough to not enmesh with them so fast but rather focus on your own life, friends, and hobbies too to make the relationship move slower, and love yourself enough to walk away when you sense these things, trusting your judgement, and that you will find the right one, even if it's not this one. When you find one that is going slow and maybe seems boring at first, dont just be like "he's boring, there's no spark". That's your brain tricking you saying "he can't give me the fix we want." Take time, get to know them, let those real love feelings build, not the anxiety spark. If someone meets all your boxes but there's no spark, chances are they are a secure person, and you could have an amazing relationship with them if you just give it time for the fire to build. Don't chase the spark. It's a trick, it's just our anxiety seeking a fix. That's why so many people skip the 'good guys' and chase the 'bad boys'. The bad boys are the avoidants and such, which is why you feel that spark.
@@marie-soleildauphinais9530 I think there are multiple circumstances and exceptions. It's not an either-or situation. Obviously a secure relationship can be boring, just like any can, but that doesn't mean secure relationships are boring by default. When I first learned about secure relationships , I thought that secure would equal boring as well. I don't remember where I read it, but I remember reading - secure relationships have issues just like any other relationship, but a secure couple will have open communication and deal with the issues in a healthy manner. None of these push-pull hot-cold games and chasing/running. You can rely on your partner to be there and work as a team. As far as a spark, marriages take work. Once that fire is going, you can have an exciting non boring relationship in a healthy way. You can keep the spontaneity and excitement. But just like a fire, you have to keep putting in wood to keep it going. It just takes work to produce it in a healthy manner, as opposed to the excitement happening when your partner pulls away and gives you anxiety, or things like that. And when two people are secure and committed, generally secure people will go out of their way to put in the effort for their partner to keep that spark going. You've identified that the anxiety you experienced you felt was the spark or love. That's what the point is. Many mistake that for a spark. Would you rather have a healthy loving attraction to an exciting guy that you know reciprocates his feelings? Or an anxious spark where you are constantly worried about where he is or what he's doing or things like that? That anxiety will burn you out and will never lead to a long happy relationship. That's the point I was trying to make. Even if your marriage was boring, it's not an either-or. There are exciting secure relationships too, and you can have a spark with a secure person. It's just that it's a lot more likely to have a fulfilling relationship if the spark isn't anxiety. Gotta learn to identify if the spark is because of anxiety, or a real spark and real love/attraction. With a secure partner though, you probably won't get the spark as fast as you do with an insecure person. That's why a lot of insecure relationships tend to be love bombey or rush real fast. We just gotta learn to take time and avoid those. But with a secure person you still gotta feel out if they are the right secure person for you or not. Anyways, just my observation and learned lessons and I figured I'd share it if it helps people. I wish you all the best and hope you can find true love and happiness and fulfillment.
If someone won’t take responsibility for their emotional health and relationship skills, at some point, you just can’t be with them, not matter what anyone’s attachment style is !!!!
Sometimes people are not aware they are doing it because the behaviour in the home environment kept then safe,alive, functioning, and not going mad . Awareness is the first step . Then when they are aware they probly need help unpicking how they manage relationships of all sorts and conflict or other people's needs and demands .
@@mes7615that’s not true. I’m avoidant and seeking help. Being in a new relationship after several years on my own has been one of the most challenging times in my life. But I’m working on it.
No one is perfect, but a good partner is a giver and self aware. If you are a giver and are self aware don't settle for someone who is a taker and lacks self-awareness. Although we should never judge, if someone is avoidant, unless they are actively (and on their own accord) going to therapy, working to be better partners, reading books, dealing with their own trauma, fighting their triggers, talking openly about their troubles to a partner (ex: I'm sorry I withdrew, I felt afraid), etc., then they aren't ready for a relationship, and no one but themselves can make that decision and work on the issues.
We should absolutely judge. It's not our responsibility to fix others. The fact we are watching this means we care and they don't. We all have fear and wounds but most of us have empathy for others and want to comfort those in need. The avoidant doesn't care. It's all about them. Run!
Agreed. Have much experience to what you described to a T. Aware of the issues, would grow and work on themselves very slowly. So it would be intriguing to see them work on themselves and get better. Then they would just give up on it and "relapse". Hurts.
@@ebuddha5 I agree on the first part of what you said about not fixing others. However, I have to disagree about avoidants not caring, I am a fearful avoidant myself and I care deeply for every person I love and every partner I’ve been with. I’m watching this because I attracted another avoidant which is common. I am waking up to my own self by seeing myself in another.
I was secure before I got into a relationship with an avoidant. Then after 3 years of me coddling his needs over my own, when it came time to focus on my needs, he tuck tailed, cheated, and then ran to the next person.
I’m sorry you went through this. This sounds like a typical coward. Big baby. Probably avoidant, but probably had other issues going on as well. Very often avoidants are faithful, but they still leave you feeling alone in the relationship so faithful doesn’t even really matter that much. It’s usually more the Fboi narcissists who use u and cheat. We will know better for next time.
Exactly! I was interested in an avoidant once and he expected me to coddle him. Glad I didn’t! It would have required me to give up my own sanity and independence.
I got involved briefly with an avoidant. Stonewalling, silent treatment, ran hot and cold, and super nice to everyone but me. Done with that game. He says he still has feelings for me, I say no thank you.
@Elonthecat-vk6cm I agree. These people are weak and selfish. It takes time to heal from the feeling of betrayal, but we will be better later, and recognise this behaviour in the future
I feel bad for avoidants, but the average person also has their limitations, and its very draining and time consuming to constantly have to cater to their needs, while not gettting your own needs met... it feels very lonely. I just prefer to avoid avoidants...
Yes, very lonely. So lonely that I questioned whether I was in a relationship at all. Was I? Was I when I was alone most of the time? Was I when I was the only one doing any work?
@@terrorbyter352 I'm avoidant, i find that extremely fair. I don't expect people to chase me. I'm actually loving and caring. Its when you trigger my ptsd that i go into my walls. Or when you act up I'll put up my guards instead of speaking about it. But you can get us to talk about it... if we care enough. Depends on your approach. We shut down to things that make us feel you're gonna abandon us. Or abuse us, but it's usually a bunch of things not just 1 event. Im disorganized avoidant. I don't abuse my partners. Don't expect them to chase. I want respect and I'll give of myself if you respect me. Soon as you stop respecting, my walls go up... do it 3 or 4 times... I'm gonna go cold.
Why is it the avoidant are given extra support to navigate their lack of accountability for their insecurities than other insecure attachment styles? Are we all not responsible for how your inner paradigms translate in our outer realities? What I find fascinating is the advice for dealing with an anxious is usually for the anxious attached to work on themselves; to self soothe and do the inner work to stop being clingy and needy. It is not for the other types to be more reassuring, validating or even tolerant. Yet, numerous videos on TH-cam (I’ve encountered) advise for individuals dealing with the avoidant to do the actions/mind games to soothe the avoidant and essentially help them “feel” secure. Their core wound doesn’t get cured by you giving them just the right amount of space. Yet we tip toe around their insecurities until they “decide” to rectify them…or prioritize a relationship they secretly want without the work or effort required of trust and connection? Truly fascinating, indeed.
You've just called out the secret sauce - there's no money for 'coaches' to extract from a group of people who go around not wanting or willing to work on themselves however there's lots of money on advising the other group who evidently will pay
@@Thatsher21 I agree! And I do! I wish that was more of the advice but I never see that on TH-cam. I always see “give them space but not too much” or other wild forms of communication that cater to their need for independence or freedom away from the person they desire to form healthy attachment with. It’s humorous how the simplistic logic IS to leave them alone.
Agree 100%. A secure person wouldn't mirror their behaviour. They are grown up adults, they should be hold accountable and be responsible for their words and actions. When a certain behaviour like stonewalling is not ok, we should call it out and not dive into childish cat and mouse games.
F*** that!!! If they arent working on their issues im just going to leave. Ive been through 1 avoidant, never again. I will not coddle someone who is emotionally abusing me every time they are triggered. That is exactly what stone walling and silent treatment is... Emotional abuse.
Its essentially them abusing themselves. Its them encapsulated by the abuse that was done to them. And them literally being unable to think see feel perceive a way out, over, around, or through it. They're just curled up in a ball inside their own walls, waiting for the storm to pass over, and they can begin to think and act and speak clearly again. Its dissociation, essentially. This world is horrible place for children to grow up. We need to do better. People are MEAN. Just read a comment section to see how mean people are.
I just got out of one with an avoidant and he is in therapy but is now using the fact that he has issues . After pursuing me for months and not letting up. Now has gone cold on me! Unreal!!
I know, right? %@$# that. If I'm going to be a therapist, I darn well better be paid like one. They can stop being abusive brats and grow the eff up and stop committing abuse just because they feel uncomfortable.
I am a very loving, giving, honest, and open person. I, too, have suffered trauma and spent years working on overcoming those things in order to become a better person. Each person is responsible for healing him/herself. It is not fair to visit your problems upon someone else. If you are emotionally unavailable, you should keep to yourself.
Same. I really love one of these. I’ve had a few in my life and it’s like trying to saturate hunger with a fist full of sunflower seeds. It just doesn’t work when one side of the relationship is doing all the heavy emotional lifting. I’m tired of the push and pull.
Yep. But avoidants don't do that. They want to selfishly spread their trauma. They're not disliked because they're traumatized. They're disliked because they traumatize others!!! Stay away at all costs! Empathy wont save them! They don't want to save themselves! They want to drown us!🤦🏽♀️
You seem to think that every trauma works the same. Just because you overcame your trauma on your own does not mean every type of trauma can be overcome in solitude.
My ex-husband always had slight avoidant tendencies but I was secure and it didn't really bother me... then it all came crashing down when I got pregnant with our first child after 15 years of marriage. THAT was his big trigger. He immediately started stonewalling and making unilateral decisions. Basically locked me out of my own marriage. I finally kicked him out when our child was 18 months and he never tried to repair things. We're now divorced. He immediately moved on, and I can already see his patterns repeating with the new woman. He has zero self awareness and I honestly feel sorry for her
@creatureofstyle- I have tried so hard to figure out if pregnancy and having kids leads to their downfall, I’m glad you made this comment and I’m so sorry that happened to you! After year after my first was born, I had to kick my ex out due to his distant horrible behavior, he came back after a few months did really well. We decided to have another baby a couple years later, he assured me and promised same thing wouldn’t happen, but it did, same thing, same behavior but he ran this time instead of me kicking him out.
That’ sounds like my life dear! The only thing is I was with him for 23 years and now I feel sorry for his new wife whom he already found by the time we were going through divorce. I feel miserable tu sorry for her
16:05 This is ridiculous! I shouldn´t have to seek advice from a FBI hostage negotiator to handle simple communication with my crush. The avoidant better seek therapy and I better date a secure person.
If it’s just a crush then it might be that they don’t like you, to put it harshly. They might not even be an avoidant. If they are avoidant and this is someone you are speaking to, if you really something with them then try the techniques there’s no harm in trying. If you don’t see something with them and you think this is ridiculous then maybe it is and don’t try with them and find someone else. It’s completely up to you. This isn’t ridiculous. If someone is genuinely this way yes they should speak to someone but if you love that person and your secure you will make it work and be there for them or because they’re avoidant don’t and give them space ahah. But at the end of the day if it is just a crush and you’re not secure in yourself then chances are this will be more stress than it’s worth and you should just get out of
As an avoidant that has taken the path to recovery, and in a continuously deepening and more happy relationship with the same person, for 3 years now, I can say that the stonewalling is true and ugly for everyone. For the avoidant too. Many think we like this state, however I hated it. I hated myself so much for it, and yet I couldn't do anything else but stonewall. A therapist told me once that avoidants have an attachement style of loving through separation...We have issues with emotional closeness because we are already overwhelmed with our own emotions that we are trying to keep bottled up... Now, I and my partner we both understand that when I stonewall, I freeze, I disconnect from physical reality, because I am reacting to a situation in a way that triggered a memory from the past where I couldn't set a proper boundary. And I am trying to put a boundary now to the past, with no success. When I stonewall I become a defenseless 5 year-old boy all over again, and I would project that reality into the other. I would feel rage and hate, and because I felt this rage since being a little boy, because of people overstepping constantly my boundaries and me not being able to say anything, then I unconsciously chose to put this rage on me. I have huge inner critic attacks when I freeze, basically telling myself how weak I am and how I will end up living under a bridge on a very cold winter... I realised that I was feeling emotionally homeless since a very young age, and that as many actual homeless people, they'd rather stay on the street than to have to try to trust other people again and have the comfort of a bed, a roof and a shower. I think emotionally that is why I, and other avoidants, have that fear of losing our independence. I had to get used to have an emotional comforting partner, and find trust in that comfort and in her. It is a habit that we have to change, and it is painful to change it. I fully agree that stonewalling, when not understood, is abusive. My partner got me to cut all previous contacts to exes, and any female friend that I had in the past. Which was hard, however I see now that was really for the best. It was hard for these persons, and they probably don't understand to this day why I chose to cut every contact with them. Still do not have contact with them. I realised that before I was a very agreeable and nice person, now I have more the tendency to put a boundary, say no more easily, and get annoyed more easily. When before it would be a huge and very intense explosion very rarely. Once a year or something, and really never to the person that actually caused any of it. A few recommendations, for the partner of the avoidant, and for the avoidant itself: - When stonewalling, look for grounding methods (sometimes quite radical) before trying any type of dialogue. Without grounding, nothing will work. Grounding like ice baths, cold showers, heavy weight/intensity training, boxing, eating very spicy, put an ice cube on the tongue, etc. I would usually go for a cold shower, or a heavy kettlebell swing serie of 20 reps, or for a few hundred meters sprints uphill... - After being grounded, it is important to work on expressing and letting go of the rage through body exercises and vocalisations (for ex: screams) - Writing everyday about what stresses me out helped me, and also what I am grateful for - Control and monitor the levels of stress through the day - Have a stress essential oil mix always handy for emergencies - Reduce intake of sugar and carbs, mostly in the morning, and prefer protein-fatty breakfasts snacks - We avoidants have a tendency to be addicted not to substances so much but more to spirituality, binge-watching, social media (that is our intimacy paradise), art, philosophical debates, etc. So, when we have an impulse to get avoidant, to binge-watch something, to go into FB or TH-cam, let's tend to ask ourselves, what do we need? Do we need to sleep/eat/drink/move? Let's fulfill that need. Are we having an inner critic attack? Let's ask for help, and say that we are having a very bad moment. Delete the FB account (I don't have one) or any other social media account. Just delete them. Subscriptions to Netflix, or Amazone Prime, delete them. - At some point, it is very useful to know who is the voice behind the inner critic (a parent, a relative, a group of people) - For PARTNERS, you will get into anxious mode when we stonewall. That is a natural response, whether you are already an anxious attachment type, or if you are secure. It is important that you keep touch with yourself, and not completely put everything on the avoidant. What I mean by that is, if you forget yourself completely when your partner stonewall you, that is YOUR responsibility. So to reduce that, educate yourself to better understand the dynamic and the needs of the avoidant. Remember that you becoming anxious is a natural reaction. Have compassion AND prepare your defenses. Have always in mind what limits you will not tolerate, and express them. Take space yourself to be alone and get a walk. Otherwise you will end up burnt out and resentful yourself. - What you want to look for is a reduction (not immediate probably, it might increase at the beginning), in the intensity, severity and duration of the stonewalling/freezing moments/inner critic attacks, and an increase in genuine jokes, in genuine sharing of what they feel and going through in the moment. If you don't have that after a few months, then leave. Even though we avoidants are traumatised people, others don't deserve to get overly traumatised by us and don't deserve to hopelessly try to help someone if this person doesn't want to be helped... Hope that helps and sheds some light. We avoidants have a huge potential to give immense love, care and intimacy. Stonewalling is the dark side of that. It is the huge potential for hatred, self-hatred, separation and carelessness...
Thank you for your honest and enlightening expression, it helps me understand something more of a person I had to cut contact with for my own sanity, but I truly hope they heal in time. Wish you all the best.
@@Thecuriousoptimist Thank you for reading it and for your kind answer. Good that you prioritised your sanity first. I wish you and this person all the best too.
@dorjphun I've been married for 6 years to a DA, together for 7. He's dumped and left me 3 times now. Moved out to who knows where... I only just found out about attachments and it's all fallen into place. It's made me much less anxious, but still incredibly lonely. I don't understand a) why he chose marriage in the first place or b) why he doesn't divorce and move on... we have no intimacy anymore. We literally only shake hands if we see one another. It's like my husband has gotten dementia and doesn't know who I am. Stone walling used to cause so many arguments and I was sure he was having an affair. I don't think I've ever been so utterly lonely in my entire life. Not sure why anyone would want to put another human through this.
@@wizardofaus2985we dont wanna put another human through this… we’re just scared. The freeze/flight response activates. The intention is never to cause any harm. Avoidants can get to a point where they learn to re-engage when they’re ready, if the relationship is an emotionally safe and healthy one. If there really is any intent to hurt you, that person is probably not just an avoidant. They might have unrelated toxic traits, or even a personality disorder. In any case, I’m sorry for your loss… and the loneliness of loving someone who is right there yet seems a million miles away. I wish you better in life.
Thank you for your sharing. As someone who is learning to be less avoidant, I can agree that we have a lot of love to give. Sometimes we just need space.
I would love an avoidant who tried to understand and empathize with my feelings too. I would love an environment where I felt safe in the relationship, not having my anxiety continually triggered by their distance or the comments they make to diminsh the value they have for me or the relationship.
The secure response to stonewalling for me was walking away. Stonewalling is abuse. I played the game with an "avoidant" for too long & I fear clinical narcissism is often mistaken for avoidance. What you've described encourages the "anxious" party to once again over-extend their empathy to somebody who's disengaged.
That’s called silent treatment something a narcissist does to control their victim it’s done intentionally. Stonewalling is avoidance because they feel in danger and need to flee to feel safe due to stress, overwhelm, or feelings of engulfment. No contact is to avoid an abusive person
No, it's called being tired of being frustrated and let down again and again. When you reach the limit and do not see a your life getting any better, but is trapped legally, you'd rather just walk away. Why bother hurting yourself more?
I just can’t. I’m so sorry for them. It’s just devastating to be in love with someone who stonewalls and pulls the rug out from under the relationship whenever they feel triggered. It’s not fair to ask someone to go through that. After having been in love with someone with a DA attachment style, I can only say that I wish I had understood the red flags and that I would never, ever be able to help this person feel secure or to love me in a secure way.
Ditto....it's so sad. Part of me is still wondering if I will ever be able to fix them like maybe someday in the distant future we'll meet yet again and THIS time I will crack the code. Then I wonder what is wrong with me, that I have these delusions. It's just hard totally giving up on someone who once meant everything to me.
So basically the problem is yall narcissists who want avoidants to open up, not for themselves but FOR YOUR AMUSEMENT. And the avoidant is emotionally SO SENSITIVE they can taste your narcissism FROM A MILE AWAY and they can tell your love is self-love. Even before you notice. Meaning you love the idealized image of your dream partner and not the avoidant him/herself as they are. You see us as something to crack. But it's never you who should calm the fuck down and practice being happy in your own self like a responsible adult. But for narc's it's never them who should adapt and integrate...
@poetsrear You're the only one sounding like an irregulated narc right now with all that shift blaming. Take a look in the mirror before leaving contradictory, silly comments. If you don't have the capacity to communicate like the grown ass adult that you are, then that's on you and only on you!
@@poetsrear lmao not an avoidant here playing victim and projecting. Also, no one is seeing you that way. Most people just try to avoidants all together because of the behavior seen above in your comment.
@@poetsrear Avoidants will love bomb you at first. Show you how other r/ships with your peers don't matter. Make you feel so secure around them. Then boom! You wake up the next day and they're nowhere to be seen!!! Some disappear for months then show up like nothing happened. No apologies and no thing. They repeat the same cycle and their habits are so consistent. Love bomb, ghost, stonewall, show up when they notice the person stopped bothering them, act nice again, and repeat the same f u c k e r y!
You put so much work into this video and it is explained very well, I appreciate that. The only thing is that I can imagine a lot of desperate anxious folks using these videos to try to get a toxic partner back. This is all about how to cater to them and is very one sided. A healthy relationship means that both parties are working in themselves to make the relationship work. If the avoidant isn't recognizing their tendencies as toxic or trying to make healthy changes, they shouldn't be pursued. I hope everyone can recognize their worth and choose a partner who will treat them better
I couldn't agree more. Instead of vilifying anybody, recognize that we all need to heal ourselves but have to still exist in the meantime. Even when I use my words and anxious partner won't even hear me hear what I'm saying.
No need to use formulas. Just work on yourself, find out what attracts you to avoidant people and try to heal it. Some day you'll wake up and realise you're not attracted to them anymore.
but what it is ??? i have been so many times in therapy but i never worked anything about my romantic relationships. why are we anxious people attracted to avoidants ? i just dont see anything. from my experience all my avoidant partners were very charming, funny, joyful, beautiful, talkactive, smart. but other people can by same... right ?
@@leinad1618emotional neglect in childhood. Work on abundance mindset and deservablility. Set strong boundaries and don't attach to people for the first six months until you get to know them. Have full juicy life apart from relationships and have non negotiables -stabdarts
@@leinad1618 Secure that can be pulled anxious here. It is because many people look for a spark rather than a fire. A fire is calm and comforting. But not real exciting. We interact with all sorts of people, but we look for that spark to determine an attraction. Many people mistake feelings of anxiety for a spark. Those feelings of anxiety happen when someone starts to get distant. Secure people don't tend to go distant because it's not a coping method. Avoidants do. So lets say you date 3 identical triplets, 2 secure and 1 avoidant. Those 3 people are nice and tick all your boxes, but you're not sure which one you like or if you have a spark with any. Then one day, one of them starts to pull away, so you wonder about them a little more. Because of our childhood attachments, we are hyper sensitive to when people are pulling away and it causes us a little bit of anxiety. Could be something as simple as a delayed text response or whatever. Anyways, cortisol gets released, and our brains dont like that. We want to resolve the anxiety. So our brains seek to rectify it the only way we know how. By seeking reassurance that we are still cared for. The reassurance soothes our anxiety. This tends to trigger the avoidants anxiety though, which is fear of getting too close. So their anxiety spikes and they get cortisol release. So they revert to their childhood soothing method which is to get a little more distant. This causes your anxiety to spike again. That is the anxious avoidant trap. It's a spiral to crash and burn. Each time they run and we try to draw closer, it actually creates an attraction in our brain. Even if we didn't like them really, because we fear losing them, our brain tricks us that we need them. Because we do in a sense, to calm our anxiety. So we perceive that this need is attraction. We perceive it as a spark. It is an attraction but not out of love, but rather to resolve our insecurities. It becomes an addiction to chemical releases. A trauma bond. Which is why these relationships can get so toxic and so hard to leave, and why people long for their ex's even though they know they are bad for them. Their brains are longing for that fix again. A healthy secure relationship is a slow build of love over time without that push/pull. It's foreign to many of us, but it is what true love and companionship is. Overcoming anxious attachment is not giving in to those anxiety impulses. It's like turning down that big delicious looking meal, because we know it's bad for us. Don't let anxiety affect your decisions on whether to reach out and whatnot. It's a ton easier to do this at the very beginning of a relationship rather than years in when your brain is hooked. Now getting back to your question on how to stop being attracted to avoidants. I am by no means an expert, and on my own journey, but through lots and lots of therapy and research I have found that there are some core things. One, put your love for yourself above any partner. This ensures that you wont settle for being treated poorly. Next, don't chase. You need to learn to identify the anxiety when it happens, do not react on the anxiety, and deal with the anxiety in ways rather than the comfort from the other person. Self soothing methods. This is much easier to do earlier rather than later. If someone starts to pull away, you must let them. If you address it and it continues, you know you have an avoidant. Walk away. If someone wants to be with you, they will make the time to be with you. If they dont, then they aren't the right person for you. Stop focusing on the outcome that you want to make this person yours. Focus instead that you want to find the right person. Three, don't let yourself get attached so fast. Remember, we're building a fire here, not a spark. Real love takes time to grow. It is calm, gentle, strong and warm. Generally a spark will burn itself out pretty fast. Essentially an avoidant partner will show their true colors within like 3-6 months. I have a theory as to why attachment styles change. Because throughout a relationship, a secure person's brain can become addicted to the chemicals. Or the avoidant persons brain can become used to not needing the chemicals as much, etc. But once a secure becomes addicted, even if they get clean, it's much easier to relapse into addiction again. It's so much mind over matter and self respect. Which is why secure people tend to be people that have good confidence and love themselves. You need that to be able to have the strength to walk away. That's why it all comes down to self love. This is also why it's so hard to grieve a relationship especially if you are dumped, and why many insecure people swing to new relationships or rebound so fast. They need that fix to continue. Essentially insecure people become love junkies, and why those that take time to be alone and 'detox' and heal, generally go on to be much more secure and healthy for the next relationship. You have to love yourself enough to take it slow and respect your boundaries. Love yourself enough to not enmesh with them so fast but rather focus on your own life, friends, and hobbies too to make the relationship move slower, and love yourself enough to walk away when you sense these things, trusting your judgement, and that you will find the right one, even if it's not this one. When you find one that is going slow and maybe seems boring at first, dont just be like "he's boring, there's no spark". That's your brain tricking you saying "he can't give me the fix we want." Take time, get to know them, let those real love feelings build, not the anxiety spark. If someone meets all your boxes but there's no spark, chances are they are a secure person, and you could have an amazing relationship with them if you just give it time for the fire to build. Don't chase the spark. It's a trick, it's just our anxiety seeking a fix. That's why so many people skip the 'good guys' and chase the 'bad boys'. The bad boys are the avoidants and such, which is why you feel that spark.
But it was so weird my experience with her. Like she is my collegue and had the same ideology and interests as me. But in deed while we lived together it was after 2,5 months push and pulling, Alot of screaming and acting as a child. She is in therapy and now in EMDR. Maybe it would heal her. I wish her alot of luck on her journey...
His stonewalling literally sent me into a psychotic break, yes I was seeing things that weren't there and had delusions that I was being hunted down....so unless you're mentally strong to be putting up with periodic stonewalling I'd stay as far away from an avoidant as you can they can ruin your mental health and not even help you to recover, not financially or psychologically not to mention emotionally....
How about walking in the shoes of an anxious for a change ?????? They were abused in childhood, not coddled („suffocated“) and the same is repeated in romantic relationships: the avoidant abuses the anxious, the anxious coddles the avoidant. It’s the avoidants way or the highway. They use and abuse then discard.
The thing is the highway is always the right way. They will either miss you and come back or flake out of your life forever. It's a win-win! The avoidant has no negotiating leverage.
The best way to win against an avoidant is to simply not play. They’re in no condition whatsoever to facilitate the love you want, even if they have it and wants to. Unless or until they heal that wound. However, if they’ve gotten this far without addressing it, they likely won’t do it for you. The best you’ll get is they’ll love you from afar. I know from experience 😑
I am secure until I’m with someone more avoidant. It’s like a threat detection system I’ve learned to pay attention to - it’s never wrong. I’ve been pulled into anxious insecure attachment patterns a few times by avoidants but tend to re-center after I leave them or we become mutually secure in some instances. I noticed with this last partner (whom it became apparent was more avoidant towards the end), that when I would be doing my secure thing and respect his space while he does his stuff and I did mine, he’d have these anxious moments where he’d frantically call if I didn’t text back for awhile and ask why I wasn’t getting back to him. This sort of started a cycle where I was reassuring him and then he’d pull back and then I’d behave anxiously. He’s definitely dismissive avoidant though, not fearful avoidant. It’s honestly all just so frustrating and draining I want to be alone for a long time 😅
Similar experiences. I'm secure until I'm dealing with an avoidant. Then I catch the pattern and disengage. The pattern will go on forever if you let it.
You are probably not secure. Secure person do not engage with avoidant person. Even if in some case they engage with avoidant person, they will hold secure position. They will have boundieres or leave. And they will not go in cycle. You have anxious attachment. Its easy to say avoidants pull you to anxious attachment but reality is you pull yourself to anxious. Anxious attachment can be solved only by taking the responsability. Not by shifting responsability of your mental and emotional state on to others. If you are secure you will not allow breach of your boundieres. There is a reason behind your attraction to avoidant and puting yourself in cycle. Its not random. Avoidants also give clear signs in begining of interaction. But i guess your attraction to them is to strong. Take responsability and it will not be draining, frustrating anymore.
I can completely relate. I was never an anxious person in relationships until I was with an avoidant. One and done for me, sadly. Beautiful man inside and out but I can’t do the work for him.
I also respectfully disagree with the comment an avoidant gives clear signs in the beginning. That is the furthest thing from the truth, in my experience at least.
those traits are not inherent to people with avoidant attachment styles. Being avoidant doesn't mean you definetely take no accountability and have no awareness, although I guess it often occurs. It can be compared to knowing it's bad to eat animals, but doing so anyways because you feel the need to so.
The thing is being avoidant is on a spectrum. I believe myself to be FA leaning AP. I am a fearful avoidant however I am deeply empathetic, super into self improvement, personal development and spiritual growth...But that is the thing to remember there is a spectrum and there is a crossover on the higher end between narcissism and avoidants
I have thought that I wished this and have at or more that I was less angry and and and anxious and more emotionally regulated and had less empathy lol
Avoidants are very painful to be with. I have tried, probably more than I should, but I am not a therapist and desire an equal partner, not a patient. I hope they all get the help they need and stop hurting well meaning people. I do really appreciate your explanation in this video though, it is helpful to making sense of the pain and confusion. Appreciate you!
This is so sad I know a man who was adopted out of foster care as a toddler. He is one of the most financially successful yet the most lonely and volatile people I have ever met. The slightest perceived rejection or disrespect from anyone triggers him to no end. A normal conversation can set him off and you will be standing there with no clue as to what you could have said wrong. He has spent 65 years unable to truly connect with anyone.
Alot of highly conventionally successful people like this man you described are avoidants. Its the very nature of the game, these people seek intensity outside of the relationship, and this often is in the form of business/work. It's their demons which drive them. They look real shiny on the outside, sadly the internal mind is a waste lonely wasteland that they can't even confront.
I had a boyfriend like that in high school. He used stonewalling to control me like a puppet. It was emotional abuse. When my last boyfriend started doing it I saw it for what it was and after trying to set boundaries 3 times only to have them ignored (and me ignored) I broke up with him after only 2 months. We live and we learn
Yes I was going to bring that up. Space makes avoidance want more space and more space until they don't come forward and begin to use it as manipulation
Okay I’m new to this term as of right now. Funny thing… I am the avoidant. I didn’t know that’s what I was doing. I hope not to receive any hate by confessing this. I just shut down, like my entire body starts shaking and I can barely speak when I feel my autonomy or independence being challenged. I was raised by a very controlling narcissistic step mother, my birth mother was not my safety as a young child and gave me away at age 3 to be exact. My dad didn’t want me either for a long time. I am now married to a beautiful diagnosed autistic man. He knows himself but lacks any idea of any of this about me. We’ve been together almost 6 years and every step of commitments along the way has been triggering to my avoidance issues. I recently shut down again this week when an old topic was brought up again. I’m now sleeping in the living room and I don’t even want to be touched. Understanding it’s a me problem, I’ve still interacted, try hugging, try participating in daily activity together but I’m struggling. He is so kind and patient. My question… how on earth do I share this with him when I totally feel like this is still just a me problem? I don’t want to feel this way. It sucks! I don’t want to avoid the love of my life , but my brain feels no feelings currently and my skin feels like needles. I understand it’s all me, I don’t know how to rewire my brain not to feel afraid. Sorry if tmi to anybody out there.
please consider therapy,you are hurting yourself and your partner as well so it is absolutely not just a you problem. it effects both of you so both of you should work on overcoming it. just realizing these things and looking for a solution is a very great step towards being better for yourself and your partner. i'm sure your partner will be understanding just try your best to be open. i am recovering from a break-up with an avoidant and trust me, if he stopped considering that a me problem like you do and was open and vulnerable with me i would've helped him in every way i could because i cared and loved him so deeply. it's been months and i'm still here learning about his attachment style trying to understand because it causes so much pain and confusion. please open up to your partner, they deserve it
The most frustrating thing in the world, being with an avoidant, is their continuous refusal to communicate. Just speak ! ! Just say it!!!! That continuous desire to have the right words, is still more drive to control and avoid vulnerability. Just say it. You're just human like everyone one else!!!
@@JA-qk8gt we for sure have talked about it since I made this post! We both have talked about therapy for me as well when the funds are available. Thank you for your encouragement.
The irony of developing all these "formulas" to deal with and attract an avoidant is that only an anxious person would put up with that. Avoidants don't want secure people; they want someone on their terms, someone who will put up with their bs (an anxious attacher) and then they resent them for it lmao. A secure person surely would not be having to come up with equations.
A secure person would do all of these things intuitively after some trial and error if they were really invested in this other person. Personally, it's a lot of work, and I have better things to do than to deal with all of that nonsense further.
@@letsdomath1750 They will put up with it, only for a while. Its natural for every emotionally healthy person to want to make compromises to make a relationship work, its part of the work requirement in any relationship. A really secure person will not really tolerate this kind of dynamic for the long term for sure. With avoidants, they have such a low level of self awareness, thus no acountability. They're essentially the perfect formula for failure when trying to create a truly healthy relationship. They create toxic relationships, which they feel safe in, and stay in those for the long term.
Thank you for this video. Early childhood neglect and trauma changes the way you see yourself and others. It’s not that the avoidant doesn’t care. I am avoidant myself. As an avoidant myself I had to learn to self soothe myself as a child and did not have an example of healthy ways to regulate my emotions. I've been in and out of therapy for years now and done inner work and my attachment style hasn't changed. It is not easy for avoidants. I have constant guilt for avoiding closeness with others. I have been in relationships with other avoidants who held a mirror to myself which made me more self aware. From my experience most people do not have a secure attachment style.
the issue is they pretend they are secure. and only when the trigger comes, the partner of friend sees it. so they should be themselves from beginning on
So, I always thought I was avoidant. I think that's probably true, although I am quite self reflective and have pretty healthy habits. I always need space when I'm upset, but instead of stonewalling, I just ask for space. And, honestly, when I am given that space, it is such an amazing gift. It makes me feel completely safe. It makes me feel absolutely secure and increases the trust in the relationship. And then I can come back and we can have whatever discussion is necessary. I'm really lucky to have somebody in my life that I can have that peacefulness with.
You sound like me. I test secure with a touch of avoidant. I think it's a good thing to be able to take some space and get your thoughts together before speaking. It's better than just being volatile and throwing out every hurtful thought that enters your head while you're upset!
Bro!!!! I love how you have a stonewall formula... That's amazing. When my girl does this next time I'm gonna calculate it! I know she's fearful avoidant but luckily the severity of stonewalling hasn't been too bad. This channel and others is actually helping me heal my anxiousness. Because at first i was obsessing about her behavior. But then I started realizing that it's me too. And that I have real abandonment issues from drug addicted parents, foster care, etc. going back and healing that is what I'm more focused on now. What she does is less and less affecting me, and now I almost don't even care because I trust that that's just how she coped her whole life so far too
@@rebeccagrech6036 but do you withdrwa suddenly? I dated many avoidants and know I am attracted to them so I have developped coping mechanisms, and I know when it is too much and tell them. I know it is over but at leastI know where my boundaries are. do ou know yours and communicate them at the beginning? not just "I need often space! but really telling the triggers. For ex do you need 2 days alone? or want to meet the person once a week?
Haven't dealt with a few avoidants in my life I have come to place where my opinion is, once the person knows they are avoidant, if they are so damn independent then they need to admit their shit and call themselves out on their unhealthy avoidant behaviours.
Thank you Chris! After 20 years with my avoidant partner, you have made it so much easier to clearly see and understand what is going on and, what I need to be and do.
Been with my avoidant wife for 19yrs and I’m an anxious but once I learned to pull away when she does she breaks after a couple days and comes to me wondering why then she’s all about being close and loving. Just ignore em and do your own shit they want to be emotionally abusive and test your boundaries you do it back for what ever reason they are doing it it’s seems to be about controlling the situation and relationship from what I’ve seen
I think being anxious I find it hard to ignore them and do my own thing. We do pretty much everything together. I guess I need to start there. Doing my own thing.
After a tumultuous on and off relationship with an avoidant, it was so much more relieving to date someone who is secure. Returns calls and messages, says how he feels, have proper conversations with. Unfortunately it didn't work out, but would definitely pick that over another avoidant. All of them can go date each other...
Its the avoidants responsibility to meet the anxious half way. Nobody is supposed to bear the responsibility of being ‘the mind reader’ in the relationship. They both need to communicate their need as soon as possible during conflict. Prefferably before conflict, but to learn this skill one must practise. The best thing to do is communicate about the patterns and how to solve conflicts at a calm and neutral time, so not during conflict, and the practise safe phrases to use during a conflict. Like: “I am feeling overwhelmed and in need of space to regulate myself, but please remember I still love you” or: “I am feeling anxious and affraid you will stop loving me, and I am having trouble regulating this alone without reasurance - if we can’t coregulate on this, just know that I might need atleast twice as long as you to come back to a regulated state”. Calm voices only on both sides.
I was as compassionate, direct, and accommodating to him as I could be, to the point of self-abandon. I was dismissed, disrespected, unappreciated, and unheard, and after so much time being patient in what was basically an emotionally abusive dynamic, I snapped. It exploded whatever was left of the dynamic, but I have no regrets. He needed to hear the uncomfortable truths. I'm just upset that at the end of it all, I'm painted as the villain in his story. Now thanks to him, he's all I talk about in therapy, I'm traumatized, and I'm on medication :) Not worth it. He and I were compatible in so many ways, but he sabotaged our relationship to hell. I can never subject myself to such unkindness to myself ever again.
Went thru the same. I went from secure to a nuclear explosion and snapped. Then Suddenly for no reason youtube started suggesting these videos and now I understand exactly what I was in. See I was so busy doing a narcissist detection test which came back negative everytime that I didn't realize it was something just as damaging going on....being out of it is the win 🙃 .....we were never the problem. I feel sane and secure again.
@comeagyn I'm so sorry you went through that... once you start dating more secure people or just people who can more openly love you in general, you'll come to realize that you were never the problem, and none of what you endured says anything about your worth. I met someone who makes me feel so loved. And he's better in every way. Other guy was a drug addict, a loser, who was dedicated to making me feel beneath him.
@@Nick-os3gn congrats on getting away getting back healthy emotionally and finding someone who's more of a vibratory match 👏... I've had very health loving relationships and always have the luxury of amicable separation. So with this toxic bs, it was me "trying something different"...me being the I can love us enough for the both of us person and nah, I love me more. I'm taking an intermission from dating, and then I'll be back when it's time. But it feels good when you pick SELF.
@Nick-os3gn Forget the a**clown and concentrate on being happy. You've already wasted too much of your life and energy on this fool. Tell yourself what he thinks doesn't matter; what he says doesn't matter; that you are not going to waste a single more second on this man. I would really recommend EMDR - it sounds crazy but it does work and it's designed specifically for people with PTSD who want to heal. I had really bad PTSD after a very abusive relationship and the EMDR faded the memories so they don't trigger me emotionally any more (no longer getting flashbacks). Talking about it kept the wounds open; EMDR faded the scars. I truly wish you health, love and happiness my friend. Remember you deserve nothing less.
@tc6758 thank you so much! I'm actually doing much better, and today is the first day that I realize how much better off I've been without him. Been taking care of myself and even making travel plans that I know I wouldn't have otherwise had he continued to be in my life 🥰
I'm a secure dealing with an avoidant. I know it hurts a lot, I won't be telling you to keep trying. But be patient, because if that person really love you and care about you. They will change, they will try to better themselves for you. But this takes time and a lot of patience. It's going to be a long journey. You can always stop and find someone else
The backlash towards dismissive avoidants is similar to that towards narcissists, and it is basically because neither can take any accountability. As a former anxiously attached, I have done the work to move away from anxiety. It is the DA’s job to do the same to reduce their avoidance. We are ever only in control of our own thoughts and behaviour, and are not responsible for what anyone else, including DAs and narcs, thinks or does.
Anxiously attached is insecure but there's a good reason this group doesn't get anywhere NEAR the amount of flak avoidants do. Its very easy to deal with an anxious attacher. Its just constant reassurance, it gets annoying. Thats about it. But an anxious will not rip your heart out from one moment to the next.
This was so great! I am an anxious avoidant. After a unhealthy childhood and being in many abusive relationships this attachment style has been my response. I get very afraid when someone moves to fast in a relationship and if there anxious it’s even worse. Understanding this can be hard and I know I have hurt people but it’s not my intention. I get afraid of losing my independence. It’s were I have felt the most safe. When someone gives me space and understands it really helps me. Through therapy I have learned to communicate what I am feeling as well.. instead of just closing down. If someone is understanding it helps me a lot. Thankyou for this video 🙏
A lot of these comments are negative, so here’s my positive experience: I fell for a girl, I knew I could see myself being with her for the rest of my life. I dream of marriage and a family as much as anyone, but I’m avoidant. I told her I was avoidant but didn’t really mention how it manifested in our relationship. Even though from the beginning I knew I wanted to be with her, when we’d hung out a lot that week, or texted nonstop, or started to get more physical, I would go home questioning everything. Alarm bells would go off in my head and I would doubt my feelings for her. I would pull away for a bit. And she didn’t push. And then I would feel safe again. Only through watching this video did it occur to me that she might have done research into how to help avoidants feel safe as the relationship progresses. of course in times when she needed it, I would set aside my discomfort to make sure I was there for her. I’m eternally grateful for her patience
All the avoidants I have ever found were Narcissists starting with my dad a covert narcissist. Even if the avoidant is not a narcissist there is something very toxic about these people. It takes 2 healthy people to make a healthy relationships. If one of these people are not healthy the scales will tip the end will come. Life is stressful enough without having to use FBI tactics to be in a relationship. Think about all this time you need to put in: videos you watched, books you read, trying to figure out this person to be able to be with them. If you could put this time into you and grow a better version of yourself and attract better things!
They're not narcissists in that they're not selfish or egotistical people. It's just like having a second job as an amateur hostage negotiator trying to accommodate their toxic traits.
They stonewall you and expect to talk to you again after a while like nothing happened 😂 yeah no thanks.. nobody want to deal with a child in a grown ups body.
@@redpilljesus Or play an entirely different game than the one Sunny has been playing AND different than the one Chris is suggesting - detect avoidant behavior and immediately LEAVE.
@@brucefullwood yeah - good one. I'm sure that works just fine when it's a spouse, when they have your kids, when they're your kids, when they're your parents. Good call.
@@redpilljesusno but theirs people than can bail before kids !! You know that’s what their taking about . Leave before your in deep of it’s a new relationship
I started researching this detachment style a couple of years ago and took such a deep dive into it, I no longer found dismissive avoidants attractive and even volatile fearful avoidants are dysregulating because there's a hairline trigger with them you don't know exists. It's like an invisible tripwire and all bets are off the second you unknowingly touch it. They rage and often vanish, and I just let them. I used to be a fearful avoidant myself but was consistently gentle with people which I guess made me atypical. I didn't want to upset or confuse anyone, and I saw it as being loyal to continue engaging or at least allowing access even if they were abusive or unkind. Now, I don't want to walk on eggshells as a lifestyle and if I've done my work, they can too. If they don't want to, I don't want them. Bottom line is some people will force you to choose between you and them. Always choose you. Your person(s) would never force such an unreasonably unfair decision. Love always makes room for more than one. ❤
I'm a fearful avoidant. I am aware of my insecure attachment style. I'm working on my issues in therapy. Some people bring out my anxious side, others bring put my avoidant side.
@@PerrySkyePhoenix Congratulations! ❤ Self-awareness and a willingness to act on it really are the keys to healthier connections. I found the same. Anxious people would influence me to more avoidance and avoidant people would influence me toward anxiety. Now, I see these as warning signs that this person may not be self-aware and instead has a tendency to blame others for their results in relationships. I attempt to communicate with them in a non- judgemental, observational way and after a reasonable amount of effort and time, if there's still no movement in the right direction, I usually withdraw without drama (at least from side) because they're showing me they're not ready to face their childhood conditioning and that's ok. This journey is hard and it ain't for everyone. I'd rather connect with those who it's for.
I'm glad that you have identified what doesn't work for you. Good insight. Good job doing the research. Many people never figure out about this attachment style.
@@mickeymouse3075that and it's not like theyre total invalids, they know and appreciate what you do, and show incredible kindness and generosity in turn. But it's not for everyone.
Well, they can secretly want anything they like, but in real life they should take responsibility on their own actions and development. Of course you can help, if they ask and are working on their issues, but otherwise, just leave.
You can have compassion and patience with a partner as the two of you learn how to navigate conflict. With this said, learning how to repair conflict early and often is critical to any relationship. This is where agreements on how you will operate within the relationship, including how the two of you will handle conflict is necessary. If the two of you agree that you wont go 48 hours without coming together to resolve or at least step back in to begin a negotiation or process, then this agreement needs to be upheld. Trust and safety isnt possible if one or both partners consistently shut down and stonewall as a means of self regulation, or use it as a strategy to communicate their upset. No matter the attachment style, if after some time, and after youve made an agreement with your partner on how you wiko handle conflict, and they still use stonewalling to self soothe, it would be necessary to place some boundaries and consequences around that behavior, rather than continuing to give unending understanding and acceptance. If you dont put this in place, resentment over your need for safety will grow and grow. Game over.
222 comments that’s me and my beloveds number. I agree it takes compassion, compassion, compassion. And this is a good reminder of how terrified an avoidant feels about losing their independence. And how to work with them. Well done !!
After watching several of your vids, i have to come to the comment to say , Your videos are incredibly amazing put together, and my fav is how you break down all the info , this makes it absolutly easy to understand. THANK YOU CHRIS.
There is so much hate on public display for us who struggle with this attachment style. I understand that these people have been hurt. I also suspect that the people who spout these strong negative opinions publicly have a fundamental lack of empathy in the moment they decide to post their hate for the world and people around them. Personally, I am accountable for my behaviour, and I make grave mistakes in relationships. At the same time ... I had little power in my childhood - which is largely what made me who I am today. It is important to acknowledge this, and to put effort into breaking it all down, so that the avoidant can BECOME secure. It is impossible to do alone, and it is essentially anti-social to call us "narcissists" or other demeaning names, when we are ALL in the process of becoming who we are.
I am an avoidant but even I wouldn't support this bs. There is a degree of avoidance which is "working on it" And a degree which is "unhealthy for any other person involved" I don't believe in promoting sacrificial (or self suppressing) love. Advice like this can enable people who aren't working on themselves to torment partners who are trying to do the work for them.
Individuals with anxious attachments are not compatible with avoidants, and they are just as dysfunctional due to their own traumas. Healing would be hindered in those dynamics.
It's not my purpose to fix him. I am perplexed on how to even communicate with him. It's like a bomb could go off at no notice. One word can be a trigger. Too much psychological work. Am not a shrink. Am in the legal field and thrive in truth. This confused avoidant man cannot face truth and consequences. So strange that you would never know someone can be this broken
This is the MOST well done, backed up video I've seen. The rest seem like opinions now, not information. Thank you. I don't know if it's even up to me anymore but at least it tells me how to respond because I've just been frozen in despair.
May I ask why even bother with those people? After seeing the calculation example as to how many days I should give them space it seems that only obsessed person would be down to do the math. Whats the prize here? An unreliable baby version of an adult in vicinity? No thanks
You get nothing but more sacrifice and the fact you can't count on them to be there for you while you have to jump hoops and make sacrifices to accommodate them. Absolutely bonkers anyone would sign up for this scam of a deal.
Exactly. There's a level of cognitive dissonance in this video. It's all about how avoidants need to partner with a secure person...that a secure person ALWAYS gives an avoidant ridiculous amounts of space...but the formulas requried to interact with an avoidant are absurd and something only an unhealthy, anxious attacher would even think about. All these videos just reinforce anxious and avoidant behaviors. It's all BS. The avoidant is even less likely to change if you enable them. If you have to be a GD psychologist to be in a relationship with them, then wtf why??? Only for them to treat you like $hit. It's a joke.
Why are you commenting on this video? Clearly, plenty of people are clamoring for help with avoidant people. Do you want him to make a video saying, "Just leave them alone"?
Solid info, thanks a lot. Your channel has been a great help lately. What I have noticed with my avoidant is that she basically gives me a key every time, but because I'm an anxious(slowly transforming into secure) and have all the thinking patterns that come with it, I just didn't notice the key for a very long time and tried to break the door with a crowbar of my love and attention. And that's exactly the opposite of what I should have been doing this whole time. It's hard when an avoidant gives you no feedback and you naturally start questioning the whole thing, asking yourself, does he/she even care? But the answer to this, in my cas is: it's been three years. As an anxious I now realise I've made all yhe possible mistakes. And she keeps on reaching back to me, even after months of withdrawal. That's how I know she cares. What might seem as a a mere grain of sand from your perspective, is actually a big deal for the avoidant and might rrally be a sign of reaching out to you despite all the fears and insecurities they have to battle through.
This video is great! Hes pretty much mentioning things not long after im thinking of each point and reasoning! I tend to be primarily FA, so I'm all over the place between anxious and avoidant depending on the person, place, timing, context, and circumstances. I notice that what I would often like in response depends on my subconscious or conscious reasonings and whether or not the trigger is based on 1.) socio-cultural perceptions and incompatabilities such as age and existing relationship status 2.) the particular relationship role the person is seeking, combined with actual incompatabilities such as gender and sex, and my level and type attraction to them, 3.) general life and task overwhelm/stress, 4.) disruption of independence in a perceptibly or truly incompatible relationship/personality types, 5.) or personal insecurities and fears of lack of reciprocation or unsustainability of personal effort on the part of myself or the other person, usually itself due to life overwhelm. 6.) distance (refers back to 5, sustainability and expense of effort or finances) 7.) fears of indirectly causing seemingly irrepairable harm or emotional damage to the person or their family through the connection between two seemingly incompatible worlds When attempting to establish a long term romantic relationship specifically (as opposed to a friendship, short term training, experimental, or curiosity based relationship), in almost every case except #1 (if extremely over or under my most preferable age range, being between 24 and 36, which is usually based on concerns involving all of the above), #2, and maybe #6, my more avoidant tendencies can be broken down by the boiling frog method combined with general physical attractiveness, hygene/upkeep, and dress (without stressing their finances or mine), as well as small, but noteworthy efforts and details, initiative in breaking a stalemate or establishing a positive pattern of knowable and perceptible desire to progress, among other things. Rarely, even in the numbered cases above except #2, to my personal horror, my boundaries and tendencies can be broken down for the long term through the above sets of actions and sheer willpower combined with surrounding relationships, initial contexts, and circumstances, especially if the age discrepancy is not extreme or unlawful for the role or the physical, intellectual, and/or spiritual fitness and attractiveness/upkeep is present... if it is, and I've started stonewalling and put up resistance against invasion for that particular role, (such as a long term romantic relationship or even short term sexual or semi-sexual...) forget it... that wall is never coming down until that person backs off or changes their desired role from romantic or sexual to platonic friends or perhaps some sort of financially, socially, educationally, or professionally productive or acceptable role, but even that may go through periods of distancing or lack of relationship maintanence oriented activities like communication. However, in EVERY case where I'm resisting or distancing from someone or relationship I clearly romantically or at least semi-sexually desire and meets socio-culturally acceptable and/or personal standards, there absolutely must be a clear and obvious desire for progression and stability (in other words this particular action set still most likely won't work in the case of #2, or in the case of other kinds of relationships, but might work in the case of #1 and #6. In cases where secure or anxious progression signaling or the boiling frog pan won't work, simply backing off for a while and giving space reducing the amount of interaction and communication attempts, but not totally removing them, will probably work at least to repair a non-romantic or sexual role and relationship, except in the case of #5 and maybe #7... if the fears can be overcome and the surrounding circumstances, contexts, and communication adapted. There also shouldn't be any percieved mixture of motives and signaling, such as financial with romantic or semi-sexual or sexual, and there must be clear attempts at communicating and establishing a relationship outside of a work environment and context or I will end up confusing motives and perhaps unnecessarily rejecting myself or the girl specifically in a romantic or even friendship context and possibly, at least in the short term (unless genuine value has been established with manageable levels of interaction) even a work, social, or commercial context. ____________________________ Honestly though, most of my emotional damage to myself and the continued establishment of my avoidant or anxious tendencies, my fearful mixture, has to do with the fact that I have in the past typically comitted most of my attatchment energy and focus toward other avoidants because they lack sustained positive progression, clear desire, and openness signalling, and I crave that attatchment with because it's an excuse for a non-commital attatchment as a block to potentially high quality commited relationships due to past frustrations with personal insecurities and fears of abandonment.... so I seek out romantic relationships with women who are clearly experienced and trigger happy when it comes to rejection of themselves or others or, I seek long distance relationships, or relationships where there could be confusion between fiancial abuse, work or commercial cordiality, and genuine interest in progression because... it's a seemingly predictable or enforcable negative outcome and in my perception of the probable outcome I feel personally secure... but never genuinely satisfied, fulfilled, or secure...... wow... that hit... I've never been able to define the problem like that...
There might have been early signs she was avoidant but they were minor and I didn’t recognize then. But the boiling frog analogy aplies here after about seven years. Things were going well, we were accumulating money, more stability and happy times were happening. I couldn’t inmagine oit going south as it has in the last 4-5 years. At first I was anxious and did everything wrong. Only made her pull away worse. I have learned to give her space. Things have improved, for her. But now she is fine with this tremendous intimacy gulf between us and has this idea this is the new Normal that she seems to be fine with. I have learned these FBI tactical empathy methods, and I’ve also gotten myself together to not let it affect me. But I don’t want to live this way going forward. I’d rather have a partner who is invested in the relationship and appreciates a good one. Where it’s a two way street I’d give and take. I’m getting off this one way street!
This is so fascinating to learn now that I've experienced it twice and was broken both times by silent treatment. I truly thought ghosting was meant to be intentional punishment, so it's helpful to learn that it wasn't. But hell, it's one of the most toxic things I've ever experienced... Imagine needing to calculate a friggin formula for how many days to allow someone to stonewall you. I'm so glad to understand this now, but I'd much prefer not to have to apply this to real relationships in the future.
One of the ways I am healing myself after my avoidant dismissive boyfriend broke up with me pulled the rug out from underneath my legs with no indication that it was coming. Without help in guidance from people who know this subject very well I would be lost. Thank you so much for providing this outlook on avoiding dismissives.
I was in a relationship with a girl who was in a previous toxic 10 year relationship that she left 2 years ago. Her and I hit it off for a couple of months and it felt like she would of been the one up until she got incredibly depressed about everything and brought up how she was supposed to get married this certain day of the month. At the end of the month, she said she was unhappy, didn't want to talk about any of it and she ended things. For 3 months of NC, she didn't once reach out and in fact she decided to finally block me after her birthday. I left one last message to her saying I respect her silence but, I have to move on if you're never going to talk. As someone who's anxious, the whole time I had believed I was an awful person and needed to do all these things to hear from her.. it's messed up.
What's the point in performing any, let alone all, of these calculations for someone who is reciprocating AND acknowledging none of the effort, interest or energy being expended? I initially thought he was just avoidant but now am convinced that in the most vulnerable states I've ever experienced, that it wasn't a profound yet complicated connection that I'd fallen into but rather the throws of narcissistic charm and subsequent abuse.
There was a point in time when I used to watch Chris's videos religiously in hopes of understanding avoidants because of a relationship I had. It's been a long while now and I was able to get out of that relationship and flourish. I learned that no matter how great of a person you are, you will never be enough for an avoidant. You will forever be waiting for the shoe to drop, anxious and losing your mind. They are miserable people and should be left to work on themselves. Unless you really want your soul sucked out of your body and have endless tears do yourself a favour and choose yourself. There are far much better individuals full of love and compassion out there. Oh! And the phantom ex is a thing, they do come back. Once you're over them, I can confidently say that they aren't special in your eyes anymore. I wish anyone who has this kind of partner healing and I hope you are able to break free.
So I have been married to an “avoidant” for ten years now and he is also bipolar II. What a roller coaster ride I have been on. These videos have really explained things to me in the last few months that I wish I knew ten years ago. I was a secure attachment style (even though I came out of a 29 year marriage to a man who was diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder and Intermittent Explosive Disorder.) Now I have become Anxious attachment and it gets exhausting “giving him his space” all the time. It’s a lonely marriage and feels like a death by a thousand cuts. Luckily we finally just started marriage counseling and he is trying to get on meds for his mental health issues. He hid his avoidant style we when we dated because I am not a “chaser” and I was working full time and going to school full time. I think that drew him to me.
I created a safe and understanding place for this person. Even though they say they love me, They just kept going for someone else, the new and shiny. Forfeiting a long deep/safe/secure relationship
This is exactly why mirroring won't work. You just sacrifice YOUR boundaries (whether secure or anxious) for the avoidant's and end up getting your needs unmet. It's a recipe to becoming more insecure. It's a recipe for codependency.
@@brennam954 It seems with her being married to a DA for 30 years, he charges some of her supply, too. Anxious and dependent enough to have made their marriage work by becoming a willing participant in the game instead of saying “game over”.
This is exhausting! I'm all for having compassion and empathy, but the bottom line is, if the avoidant is not willing to do their own work, it's not possible to develop a healthy, reciprocal relationship.
thank you so much for this video and all schooling you give us about avoidants. Thank you for adressing the comment section, I am very disappointed to see how many don't understand the real issues and have a lack of emphathy towards avoidants. keep doing the great job!
@@tijana_veljic many here do understand. It’s sad. But once you’ve fallen in love with one that mislead you acting secure then flips the script into a “crazyship” most understand that fixing their core wounds is the grown avoidant’s total responsibility period. We are all adults. Many are affected by avoidant abuse no matter the justification. Avoidant’s don’t get to mentally abuse good people then walk away with a hug. Total nonsense
This just changed my entire LIFE: 5:20 avoidants react sudden to quick change but not to gradual changes- key is him not detecting the boiling water/trigger point! Tactical empathy and labelling: 17:45
13:45 - There should be no such thing as "winning over someone" in a genuine relationship. We win together. To be clear - this is a constructive criticism, not a judgement of your intent.
Her actions got her blocked. I was never trying to date her she wanted me and couldn’t express. Ultimately she disappeared on me and then I blocked her. Now she’s trying to reach out from random numbers texting and calling. Please go play games with someone else .
The same thing happened to me with a guy at work. He disappeared on me after making what he thought was a big gesture showing me he liked me (aka he freaked himself out). I realized then he is avoidant and I was/am like ‘hell no.’ Now I intentionally avoid him, I want NOTHING to do with him. Since then (once he stopped freaking out) he tried to get my attention again/showed interest but I am not having it. I am not having anything to do with that freak.
My man is exactly like this and understanding what avoidants feel has really saved the relationship and brought it to a very deep level. He is the most reliable man I have ever met.
Repeat to yourself: ‘it’s not my responsibility to fix them, especially at the expense of my own peace.’
AND "work on thy self because we are all traumatized by something, and need to realize where our skeletons are too"
It's not my fault it's not my fault it's not my fault IT'S NOT MY FAULT!!!
@maxsheerin8219 I've been celibate for 10 years. I broke the cycle of push pull relationships through intensive therapy that was horrible
Try again 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👉
@maxsheerin8219 I've been celibate for 10 years out of the push pull cycle but thanks ☺️
Completely celeibate......
@maxsheerin8219 you also have a lot to work on, going by your comments
Avoidants will turn a secure person who’s in passionate love with them into an anxious. It’s so hurtful.
Yep, that’s me. Was secure with my fearful avoidant ex, who decided to one day burn everything to the ground and stonewall me (permanently). Now I’m just broken.
Just treat others as superficial as possible while not offending their trauma burdened inner child, Or just let others talk till you have had enough extroversion and then go home and get drunk. It is all BS anyway!
And this is the subject that should be addressed. How an avoidant can trigger an anxious response in someone healthy?
@@clairefreeman1222 trauma through emotional abuse does typically cause damage. It doesn’t have to be a “trigger response”.
Cold, hard facts.
I have compassion for them. However, I also have compassion fatigue. So now I avoid avoidants.
Nooo that’s what they want lol
Whole damn generation is some type of avoidant due to they’re narcissism. Totally different things. But avoiding none the less.
Yeah, they sure can be draining of others. So many character disordered folks in America.
Yea not worth it. I do the same. At the first sign of this type I walk away. I’ve been there too many times and it never ends well and isn’t good for your mental health
such a well said statement. Yes, compassion fatigue, what a poignant term h
So, they are walking contradictions. They want a happy relationship, but sabotage it every time it starts to become a happy relationship.
They’re experts at blocking their own shots. Spouting love sonnets one day, to dumping you coldly the next.
100%
Precisely
This
@@chris51385it sucks to know this has been me my whole life 🥲
Ok, if we need FBI hostage negotiation tactics to be with someone, maybe thats our cue to re-evaluate the relationship..
Literally almost everyone is broken. Good luck finding healthy individuals
😂
. Not true, half the population is securely attached and an anxious attacher is much more capable of a healthy relationship than an avoidant.
😂 amen
Omg love this 😭. I say stuff like this all the time. I think understanding avoidant psychology is useful for healing in that we can see it definitely wasn’t us, but this push to figure out and strategize just to be with someone and sacrifice all our needs for them is simply toxic empathy. You cannot be with a person like this and expect it to be healthy. Ever. Healing does happen in relationships, but many avoidants need to do most of that healing in therapy first before practicing on people with real feelings and needs.
Don’t bother. I’m married to one and it is pure TORTURE. No one should have to work so hard just to have a reciprocal and healthy relationship where they are receiving a normal level of emotional support and love. It’s a bunch of balogna! Save yourself and just walk away from someone like this before you get into a family situation and are financially stuck in a bad economy with insane interest rates. Wish me luck!! ❤
I'm married to one too. 😞
@@soapylulujust joining you both to say me too. Much love to all of us here, shit is so hard.
Me too! Always feels so dramatic just to connect on anything
@Dymphna06 was, too. He left me and our daughter from one day to another four days after our daughter graduation party. He left after 29 years without a word.
@@dvegule920 this happened to my mom. She was married 30 years and my dad left her a note taped to the computer. 🖥️ it said “I’m leaving the house.” Turned out he was having an affair with a woman 20 years younger than my mom. It has wrecked me - and that was 25 years ago. I obviously continue to choose unavailable men. I’m ok, I have a job and I love my kids - so it isn’t or wouldn’t be the end of the world.
I notice they don't stonewall their bosses, workmates or drinking buddies.
absolutely the best comment I've seen.
Bosses won't take half your income if you don't work out. Your workmate won't break your heart. Drinking buddies won't take your kids to another state.
because there is no emotional "threatening" from them or the chance to be hurt emotionally by them
Surface level relationships. You can maintain those relationships for years and never get emotionally vulnerable. An avoidant will never be triggered and likely holds onto those few consistent interactions in their life.
Of course there’s no intimacy involved lol
As much as I appreciate the advice, an important thing you didn't mention about what the Gottman's research shows is that stonewalling is one of the 4 major reasons relationships don't work. We can change how we interact with avoidant people, but ultimately they have to do their own work.
The example you used where the avoidant essentially needs 8 days to recover... that isn't acceptable. Imagine if that is your spouse and mother/father of your children. It's not acceptable to run away from your problems and responsibilities. It's a risk to enter a relationship with someone who handles their problems that way because the damage it does just repeats cycles of abuse, neglect and dysfunction.
If they run away from their responsibilities, they aren't avoidant, they are irresponsible and immature. People can stonewall, but still do all their duties as a spouse and parent.
Gottman is not an oracle on attachment theory, and anyway, since he published his book, there was a lot more research on the subject.
@@silverlinings3946 I’m not sure we can say someone is fulfilling their duties as a spouse if they’re stonewalling their spouse. Communication is essential for running a household, ignoring your spouse and using stonewalling makes that hard. It also damages the relationship. If you’re not trying to preserve and nurture your relationships, I don’t think we can call that doing your duty. Agreed about the immaturity, though.
Bingo 🎯
Exactly. Ok, fine they have issues. Go to therapy and deal with them. I'm a combat vet, I've had childhood trauma(Fearful Avoidant) and sexual assault situations...lots of trauma and ptsd. You can't shit all over other people indefinitely and cry trauma. Face it and deal with it.
@@silverlinings3946 Doing rote tasks without communication and connection is not "doing their duties". Parenting or being married in robot mode and doing the tasks (working, paying bills, shoveling the sidewalk, making dinner, etc) but without communication, connection, empathy, etc. is NOT fulfilling their duties as a parent or partner.
“Creating an environment where they feel safe and understood” can come at a cost to your own well being and mental health. If they aren’t capable of doing the work, it’s better to invest that care, love and healing into yourself.
100%
@@aisharedux781 as an avoidant i agree. If they're not willing they're not ready for love.
100 per cent it’s draining
And when you heal yourself you're gonna find you don't want them
Such an Environment does not give them their dopamine hit. So they’ll not stay
Here is why many of us fall for the avoidant trap. Secure person that can be pulled anxious here. It is because many people look for a spark rather than a fire. A fire is calm and comforting. But not real exciting. We interact with all sorts of people, but we look for that spark to determine an attraction. Many people mistake feelings of anxiety for a spark. Those feelings of anxiety happen when someone starts to get distant. Secure people don't tend to go distant because it's not a coping method. Avoidants do.
So lets say you date 3 identical triplets, 2 secure and 1 avoidant. Those 3 people are nice and tick all your boxes, but you're not sure which one you like or if you have a spark with any. Then one day, one of them starts to pull away, so you wonder about them a little more. Because of our childhood attachments, we are hyper sensitive to when people are pulling away and it causes us a little bit of anxiety. Could be something as simple as a delayed text response or whatever. Anyways, cortisol gets released, and our brains dont like that. We want to resolve the anxiety. So our brains seek to rectify it the only way we know how. By seeking reassurance that we are still cared for. The reassurance soothes our anxiety. This tends to trigger the avoidants anxiety though, which is fear of getting too close. So their anxiety spikes and they get cortisol release. So they revert to their childhood soothing method which is to get a little more distant. This causes your anxiety to spike again. That is the anxious avoidant trap. It's a spiral to crash and burn. Each time they run and we try to draw closer, it actually creates an attraction in our brain. Even if we didn't like them really, because we fear losing them, our brain tricks us that we need them. Because we do in a sense, to calm our anxiety. So we perceive that this need is attraction. We perceive it as a spark. It is an attraction but not out of love, but rather to resolve our insecurities. It becomes an addiction to chemical releases. A trauma bond. Which is why these relationships can get so toxic and so hard to leave, and why people long for their ex's even though they know they are bad for them. Their brains are longing for that fix again. A healthy secure relationship is a slow build of love over time without that push/pull. It's foreign to many of us, but it is what true love and companionship is. Overcoming anxious attachment is not giving in to those anxiety impulses. It's like turning down that big delicious looking meal, because we know it's bad for us. Don't let anxiety affect your decisions on whether to reach out and whatnot. It's a ton easier to do this at the very beginning of a relationship rather than years in when your brain is hooked.
Now on how to stop being attracted to avoidants. I am by no means an expert, and on my own journey, but through lots and lots of therapy and research I have found that there are some core things. One, put your love for yourself above any partner. This ensures that you wont settle for being treated poorly. Next, don't chase. You need to learn to identify the anxiety when it happens, do not react on the anxiety, and deal with the anxiety in ways rather than the comfort from the other person. Self soothing methods. This is much easier to do earlier rather than later. If someone starts to pull away, you must let them. If you address it and it continues, you know you have an avoidant. Walk away. If someone wants to be with you, they will make the time to be with you. If they dont, then they aren't the right person for you. Stop focusing on the outcome that you want to make this person yours. Focus instead that you want to find the right person. Three, don't let yourself get attached so fast. Remember, we're building a fire here, not a spark. Real love takes time to grow. It is calm, gentle, strong and warm. Generally a spark will burn itself out pretty fast. Essentially an avoidant partner will show their true colors within like 3-6 months.
I have a theory as to why attachment styles change. Because throughout a relationship, a secure person's brain can become addicted to the chemicals. Or the avoidant persons brain can become used to not needing the chemicals as much, etc. But once a secure becomes addicted, even if they get clean, it's much easier to relapse into addiction again. It's so much mind over matter and self respect. Which is why secure people tend to be people that have good confidence and love themselves. You need that to be able to have the strength to walk away. That's why it all comes down to self love. This is also why it's so hard to grieve a relationship especially if you are dumped, and why many insecure people swing to new relationships or rebound so fast. They need that fix to continue. Essentially insecure people become love junkies, and why those that take time to be alone and 'detox' and heal, generally go on to be much more secure and healthy for the next relationship. It's why people go back to toxic ex's. Because they subconsciously know they can get that chemical fix again.
You have to love yourself enough to take it slow and respect your boundaries. Love yourself enough to not enmesh with them so fast but rather focus on your own life, friends, and hobbies too to make the relationship move slower, and love yourself enough to walk away when you sense these things, trusting your judgement, and that you will find the right one, even if it's not this one. When you find one that is going slow and maybe seems boring at first, dont just be like "he's boring, there's no spark". That's your brain tricking you saying "he can't give me the fix we want." Take time, get to know them, let those real love feelings build, not the anxiety spark. If someone meets all your boxes but there's no spark, chances are they are a secure person, and you could have an amazing relationship with them if you just give it time for the fire to build. Don't chase the spark. It's a trick, it's just our anxiety seeking a fix. That's why so many people skip the 'good guys' and chase the 'bad boys'. The bad boys are the avoidants and such, which is why you feel that spark.
🎯🙏🏼💜
Publish this.❤
@@marie-soleildauphinais9530 I think there are multiple circumstances and exceptions. It's not an either-or situation. Obviously a secure relationship can be boring, just like any can, but that doesn't mean secure relationships are boring by default. When I first learned about secure relationships , I thought that secure would equal boring as well. I don't remember where I read it, but I remember reading - secure relationships have issues just like any other relationship, but a secure couple will have open communication and deal with the issues in a healthy manner. None of these push-pull hot-cold games and chasing/running. You can rely on your partner to be there and work as a team.
As far as a spark, marriages take work. Once that fire is going, you can have an exciting non boring relationship in a healthy way. You can keep the spontaneity and excitement. But just like a fire, you have to keep putting in wood to keep it going. It just takes work to produce it in a healthy manner, as opposed to the excitement happening when your partner pulls away and gives you anxiety, or things like that. And when two people are secure and committed, generally secure people will go out of their way to put in the effort for their partner to keep that spark going.
You've identified that the anxiety you experienced you felt was the spark or love. That's what the point is. Many mistake that for a spark. Would you rather have a healthy loving attraction to an exciting guy that you know reciprocates his feelings? Or an anxious spark where you are constantly worried about where he is or what he's doing or things like that? That anxiety will burn you out and will never lead to a long happy relationship. That's the point I was trying to make. Even if your marriage was boring, it's not an either-or. There are exciting secure relationships too, and you can have a spark with a secure person. It's just that it's a lot more likely to have a fulfilling relationship if the spark isn't anxiety. Gotta learn to identify if the spark is because of anxiety, or a real spark and real love/attraction. With a secure partner though, you probably won't get the spark as fast as you do with an insecure person. That's why a lot of insecure relationships tend to be love bombey or rush real fast. We just gotta learn to take time and avoid those. But with a secure person you still gotta feel out if they are the right secure person for you or not. Anyways, just my observation and learned lessons and I figured I'd share it if it helps people. I wish you all the best and hope you can find true love and happiness and fulfillment.
Thank you for this 🙏 Felt like a chat with a sage friend!
@@marie-soleildauphinais9530It's impossible for you to win in relationships then.
If someone won’t take responsibility for their emotional health and relationship skills, at some point, you just can’t be with them, not matter what anyone’s attachment style is !!!!
💯
I agree
Sometimes people are not aware they are doing it because the behaviour in the home environment kept then safe,alive, functioning, and not going mad .
Awareness is the first step .
Then when they are aware they probly need help unpicking how they manage relationships of all sorts and conflict or other people's needs and demands .
Exactly , they don’t even try to get help
@@mes7615that’s not true. I’m avoidant and seeking help. Being in a new relationship after several years on my own has been one of the most challenging times in my life. But I’m working on it.
No one is perfect, but a good partner is a giver and self aware. If you are a giver and are self aware don't settle for someone who is a taker and lacks self-awareness. Although we should never judge, if someone is avoidant, unless they are actively (and on their own accord) going to therapy, working to be better partners, reading books, dealing with their own trauma, fighting their triggers, talking openly about their troubles to a partner (ex: I'm sorry I withdrew, I felt afraid), etc., then they aren't ready for a relationship, and no one but themselves can make that decision and work on the issues.
We should absolutely judge. It's not our responsibility to fix others. The fact we are watching this means we care and they don't. We all have fear and wounds but most of us have empathy for others and want to comfort those in need. The avoidant doesn't care. It's all about them. Run!
Well said
Agreed. Have much experience to what you described to a T. Aware of the issues, would grow and work on themselves very slowly. So it would be intriguing to see them work on themselves and get better. Then they would just give up on it and "relapse". Hurts.
@@ebuddha5 I agree on the first part of what you said about not fixing others. However, I have to disagree about avoidants not caring, I am a fearful avoidant myself and I care deeply for every person I love and every partner I’ve been with. I’m watching this because I attracted another avoidant which is common. I am waking up to my own self by seeing myself in another.
Agree. Don’t want to be with takers lacking self-awareness anymore - in friendships & relationships. I’m free!!!!
I was secure before I got into a relationship with an avoidant. Then after 3 years of me coddling his needs over my own, when it came time to focus on my needs, he tuck tailed, cheated, and then ran to the next person.
I’m sorry you went through this. This sounds like a typical coward. Big baby. Probably avoidant, but probably had other issues going on as well. Very often avoidants are faithful, but they still leave you feeling alone in the relationship so faithful doesn’t even really matter that much. It’s usually more the Fboi narcissists who use u and cheat. We will know better for next time.
Exactly
@@chris51385trust me woman do it as well... I can attest to that
Yep
Exactly! I was interested in an avoidant once and he expected me to coddle him. Glad I didn’t! It would have required me to give up my own sanity and independence.
I got involved briefly with an avoidant. Stonewalling, silent treatment, ran hot and cold, and super nice to everyone but me. Done with that game. He says he still has feelings for me, I say no thank you.
Avoidants are really just covert narcissists!!!
This happened to me as well. I am done with him
I'm glad you are over him🎉
You did the best thing for you.
@Elonthecat-vk6cm I agree. These people are weak and selfish. It takes time to heal from the feeling of betrayal, but we will be better later, and recognise this behaviour in the future
I feel bad for avoidants, but the average person also has their limitations, and its very draining and time consuming to constantly have to cater to their needs, while not gettting your own needs met... it feels very lonely. I just prefer to avoid avoidants...
Yes, very lonely. So lonely that I questioned whether I was in a relationship at all. Was I? Was I when I was alone most of the time? Was I when I was the only one doing any work?
As an avoidant, this is very fair.
@@sammantil6342 Thank you for your honesty, and I wish you healing on your journey 🙏
@@terrorbyter352 I'm avoidant, i find that extremely fair. I don't expect people to chase me. I'm actually loving and caring. Its when you trigger my ptsd that i go into my walls. Or when you act up I'll put up my guards instead of speaking about it. But you can get us to talk about it... if we care enough. Depends on your approach. We shut down to things that make us feel you're gonna abandon us. Or abuse us, but it's usually a bunch of things not just 1 event.
Im disorganized avoidant. I don't abuse my partners. Don't expect them to chase. I want respect and I'll give of myself if you respect me. Soon as you stop respecting, my walls go up... do it 3 or 4 times... I'm gonna go cold.
Right, they dont deserve an avoidants love if they repeatedly disrespects after being told not to do so@@rebeccagrech6036
Why is it the avoidant are given extra support to navigate their lack of accountability for their insecurities than other insecure attachment styles? Are we all not responsible for how your inner paradigms translate in our outer realities?
What I find fascinating is the advice for dealing with an anxious is usually for the anxious attached to work on themselves; to self soothe and do the inner work to stop being clingy and needy. It is not for the other types to be more reassuring, validating or even tolerant. Yet, numerous videos on TH-cam (I’ve encountered) advise for individuals dealing with the avoidant to do the actions/mind games to soothe the avoidant and essentially help them “feel” secure. Their core wound doesn’t get cured by you giving them just the right amount of space. Yet we tip toe around their insecurities until they “decide” to rectify them…or prioritize a relationship they secretly want without the work or effort required of trust and connection? Truly fascinating, indeed.
Just leave them alone. It’s simple.
You've just called out the secret sauce - there's no money for 'coaches' to extract from a group of people who go around not wanting or willing to work on themselves however there's lots of money on advising the other group who evidently will pay
@@Thatsher21 I agree! And I do! I wish that was more of the advice but I never see that on TH-cam. I always see “give them space but not too much” or other wild forms of communication that cater to their need for independence or freedom away from the person they desire to form healthy attachment with. It’s humorous how the simplistic logic IS to leave them alone.
Agree 100%. A secure person wouldn't mirror their behaviour. They are grown up adults, they should be hold accountable and be responsible for their words and actions. When a certain behaviour like stonewalling is not ok, we should call it out and not dive into childish cat and mouse games.
100%
F*** that!!! If they arent working on their issues im just going to leave. Ive been through 1 avoidant, never again. I will not coddle someone who is emotionally abusing me every time they are triggered. That is exactly what stone walling and silent treatment is... Emotional abuse.
💯 exactly
Best video! So good.
Its essentially them abusing themselves. Its them encapsulated by the abuse that was done to them. And them literally being unable to think see feel perceive a way out, over, around, or through it. They're just curled up in a ball inside their own walls, waiting for the storm to pass over, and they can begin to think and act and speak clearly again. Its dissociation, essentially.
This world is horrible place for children to grow up. We need to do better. People are MEAN. Just read a comment section to see how mean people are.
I just got out of one with an avoidant and he is in therapy but is now using the fact that he has issues . After pursuing me for months and not letting up. Now has gone cold on me! Unreal!!
I know, right? %@$# that. If I'm going to be a therapist, I darn well better be paid like one. They can stop being abusive brats and grow the eff up and stop committing abuse just because they feel uncomfortable.
I am a very loving, giving, honest, and open person. I, too, have suffered trauma and spent years working on overcoming those things in order to become a better person. Each person is responsible for healing him/herself. It is not fair to visit your problems upon someone else. If you are emotionally unavailable, you should keep to yourself.
Same. I really love one of these. I’ve had a few in my life and it’s like trying to saturate hunger with a fist full of sunflower seeds. It just doesn’t work when one side of the relationship is doing all the heavy emotional lifting. I’m tired of the push and pull.
Yep. But avoidants don't do that. They want to selfishly spread their trauma. They're not disliked because they're traumatized. They're disliked because they traumatize others!!! Stay away at all costs! Empathy wont save them! They don't want to save themselves! They want to drown us!🤦🏽♀️
The problem is that they don't know what is wrong with them and they do things without having any intention to hurt the other person.
You seem to think that every trauma works the same. Just because you overcame your trauma on your own does not mean every type of trauma can be overcome in solitude.
My ex-husband always had slight avoidant tendencies but I was secure and it didn't really bother me... then it all came crashing down when I got pregnant with our first child after 15 years of marriage. THAT was his big trigger. He immediately started stonewalling and making unilateral decisions. Basically locked me out of my own marriage. I finally kicked him out when our child was 18 months and he never tried to repair things. We're now divorced. He immediately moved on, and I can already see his patterns repeating with the new woman. He has zero self awareness and I honestly feel sorry for her
@creatureofstyle- I have tried so hard to figure out if pregnancy and having kids leads to their downfall, I’m glad you made this comment and I’m so sorry that happened to you! After year after my first was born, I had to kick my ex out due to his distant horrible behavior, he came back after a few months did really well. We decided to have another baby a couple years later, he assured me and promised same thing wouldn’t happen, but it did, same thing, same behavior but he ran this time instead of me kicking him out.
@@erynnic Wow, I'm so sorry that happened to you as well! It's a truly terrible experience to go through 😢
That’ sounds like my life dear! The only thing is I was with him for 23 years and now I feel sorry for his new wife whom he already found by the time we were going through divorce. I feel miserable tu sorry for her
@@aliyaalqureshi549 I’m so sorry the same thing happened to you as well!!
😮😮 sorry for you. My husband also don't support a pregnant women he told me that alot of time but now reading your comment I was chocked
16:05 This is ridiculous! I shouldn´t have to seek advice from a FBI hostage negotiator to handle simple communication with my crush. The avoidant better seek therapy and I better date a secure person.
If it’s just a crush then it might be that they don’t like you, to put it harshly. They might not even be an avoidant. If they are avoidant and this is someone you are speaking to, if you really something with them then try the techniques there’s no harm in trying. If you don’t see something with them and you think this is ridiculous then maybe it is and don’t try with them and find someone else. It’s completely up to you. This isn’t ridiculous. If someone is genuinely this way yes they should speak to someone but if you love that person and your secure you will make it work and be there for them or because they’re avoidant don’t and give them space ahah. But at the end of the day if it is just a crush and you’re not secure in yourself then chances are this will be more stress than it’s worth and you should just get out of
😂
So well written! Even loving an anxious avoidant, your cleverness made me laugh 😂
"crush" lmao you're not even in a relationship with them none of this applies 🤣. They just never cared, sorry
😂😂😂
As an avoidant that has taken the path to recovery, and in a continuously deepening and more happy relationship with the same person, for 3 years now, I can say that the stonewalling is true and ugly for everyone. For the avoidant too. Many think we like this state, however I hated it. I hated myself so much for it, and yet I couldn't do anything else but stonewall. A therapist told me once that avoidants have an attachement style of loving through separation...We have issues with emotional closeness because we are already overwhelmed with our own emotions that we are trying to keep bottled up...
Now, I and my partner we both understand that when I stonewall, I freeze, I disconnect from physical reality, because I am reacting to a situation in a way that triggered a memory from the past where I couldn't set a proper boundary. And I am trying to put a boundary now to the past, with no success. When I stonewall I become a defenseless 5 year-old boy all over again, and I would project that reality into the other. I would feel rage and hate, and because I felt this rage since being a little boy, because of people overstepping constantly my boundaries and me not being able to say anything, then I unconsciously chose to put this rage on me. I have huge inner critic attacks when I freeze, basically telling myself how weak I am and how I will end up living under a bridge on a very cold winter...
I realised that I was feeling emotionally homeless since a very young age, and that as many actual homeless people, they'd rather stay on the street than to have to try to trust other people again and have the comfort of a bed, a roof and a shower. I think emotionally that is why I, and other avoidants, have that fear of losing our independence. I had to get used to have an emotional comforting partner, and find trust in that comfort and in her. It is a habit that we have to change, and it is painful to change it.
I fully agree that stonewalling, when not understood, is abusive. My partner got me to cut all previous contacts to exes, and any female friend that I had in the past. Which was hard, however I see now that was really for the best. It was hard for these persons, and they probably don't understand to this day why I chose to cut every contact with them. Still do not have contact with them. I realised that before I was a very agreeable and nice person, now I have more the tendency to put a boundary, say no more easily, and get annoyed more easily. When before it would be a huge and very intense explosion very rarely. Once a year or something, and really never to the person that actually caused any of it.
A few recommendations, for the partner of the avoidant, and for the avoidant itself:
- When stonewalling, look for grounding methods (sometimes quite radical) before trying any type of dialogue. Without grounding, nothing will work. Grounding like ice baths, cold showers, heavy weight/intensity training, boxing, eating very spicy, put an ice cube on the tongue, etc. I would usually go for a cold shower, or a heavy kettlebell swing serie of 20 reps, or for a few hundred meters sprints uphill...
- After being grounded, it is important to work on expressing and letting go of the rage through body exercises and vocalisations (for ex: screams)
- Writing everyday about what stresses me out helped me, and also what I am grateful for
- Control and monitor the levels of stress through the day
- Have a stress essential oil mix always handy for emergencies
- Reduce intake of sugar and carbs, mostly in the morning, and prefer protein-fatty breakfasts snacks
- We avoidants have a tendency to be addicted not to substances so much but more to spirituality, binge-watching, social media (that is our intimacy paradise), art, philosophical debates, etc. So, when we have an impulse to get avoidant, to binge-watch something, to go into FB or TH-cam, let's tend to ask ourselves, what do we need? Do we need to sleep/eat/drink/move? Let's fulfill that need. Are we having an inner critic attack? Let's ask for help, and say that we are having a very bad moment. Delete the FB account (I don't have one) or any other social media account. Just delete them. Subscriptions to Netflix, or Amazone Prime, delete them.
- At some point, it is very useful to know who is the voice behind the inner critic (a parent, a relative, a group of people)
- For PARTNERS, you will get into anxious mode when we stonewall. That is a natural response, whether you are already an anxious attachment type, or if you are secure. It is important that you keep touch with yourself, and not completely put everything on the avoidant. What I mean by that is, if you forget yourself completely when your partner stonewall you, that is YOUR responsibility. So to reduce that, educate yourself to better understand the dynamic and the needs of the avoidant. Remember that you becoming anxious is a natural reaction. Have compassion AND prepare your defenses. Have always in mind what limits you will not tolerate, and express them. Take space yourself to be alone and get a walk. Otherwise you will end up burnt out and resentful yourself.
- What you want to look for is a reduction (not immediate probably, it might increase at the beginning), in the intensity, severity and duration of the stonewalling/freezing moments/inner critic attacks, and an increase in genuine jokes, in genuine sharing of what they feel and going through in the moment. If you don't have that after a few months, then leave. Even though we avoidants are traumatised people, others don't deserve to get overly traumatised by us and don't deserve to hopelessly try to help someone if this person doesn't want to be helped...
Hope that helps and sheds some light. We avoidants have a huge potential to give immense love, care and intimacy. Stonewalling is the dark side of that. It is the huge potential for hatred, self-hatred, separation and carelessness...
Thank you for your honest and enlightening expression, it helps me understand something more of a person I had to cut contact with for my own sanity, but I truly hope they heal in time. Wish you all the best.
@@Thecuriousoptimist Thank you for reading it and for your kind answer. Good that you prioritised your sanity first. I wish you and this person all the best too.
@dorjphun I've been married for 6 years to a DA, together for 7. He's dumped and left me 3 times now. Moved out to who knows where... I only just found out about attachments and it's all fallen into place. It's made me much less anxious, but still incredibly lonely. I don't understand a) why he chose marriage in the first place or b) why he doesn't divorce and move on... we have no intimacy anymore. We literally only shake hands if we see one another.
It's like my husband has gotten dementia and doesn't know who I am.
Stone walling used to cause so many arguments and I was sure he was having an affair.
I don't think I've ever been so utterly lonely in my entire life. Not sure why anyone would want to put another human through this.
@@wizardofaus2985we dont wanna put another human through this… we’re just scared. The freeze/flight response activates. The intention is never to cause any harm. Avoidants can get to a point where they learn to re-engage when they’re ready, if the relationship is an emotionally safe and healthy one. If there really is any intent to hurt you, that person is probably not just an avoidant. They might have unrelated toxic traits, or even a personality disorder.
In any case, I’m sorry for your loss… and the loneliness of loving someone who is right there yet seems a million miles away. I wish you better in life.
Thank you for your sharing. As someone who is learning to be less avoidant, I can agree that we have a lot of love to give. Sometimes we just need space.
I would love an avoidant who tried to understand and empathize with my feelings too. I would love an environment where I felt safe in the relationship, not having my anxiety continually triggered by their distance or the comments they make to diminsh the value they have for me or the relationship.
The secure response to stonewalling for me was walking away. Stonewalling is abuse. I played the game with an "avoidant" for too long & I fear clinical narcissism is often mistaken for avoidance. What you've described encourages the "anxious" party to once again over-extend their empathy to somebody who's disengaged.
I agree they display multiple textbook traits of narcissism on top of the other stuff
Stonewalling can be an attempt to punish or control.
Agree. Punishing themselves and the partner. Kinda selfish
Yes. I’ve been a victim of this myself.
That’s called silent treatment something a narcissist does to control their victim it’s done intentionally. Stonewalling is avoidance because they feel in danger and need to flee to feel safe due to stress, overwhelm, or feelings of engulfment. No contact is to avoid an abusive person
By no means am I saying you should stay with a stonewaller especially if they are not working on their condition or in counseling, therapy.
No, it's called being tired of being frustrated and let down again and again. When you reach the limit and do not see a your life getting any better, but is trapped legally, you'd rather just walk away. Why bother hurting yourself more?
I just can’t. I’m so sorry for them. It’s just devastating to be in love with someone who stonewalls and pulls the rug out from under the relationship whenever they feel triggered. It’s not fair to ask someone to go through that. After having been in love with someone with a DA attachment style, I can only say that I wish I had understood the red flags and that I would never, ever be able to help this person feel secure or to love me in a secure way.
Ditto....it's so sad. Part of me is still wondering if I will ever be able to fix them like maybe someday in the distant future we'll meet yet again and THIS time I will crack the code. Then I wonder what is wrong with me, that I have these delusions. It's just hard totally giving up on someone who once meant everything to me.
So basically the problem is yall narcissists who want avoidants to open up, not for themselves but FOR YOUR AMUSEMENT. And the avoidant is emotionally SO SENSITIVE they can taste your narcissism FROM A MILE AWAY and they can tell your love is self-love. Even before you notice.
Meaning you love the idealized image of your dream partner and not the avoidant him/herself as they are. You see us as something to crack. But it's never you who should calm the fuck down and practice being happy in your own self like a responsible adult. But for narc's it's never them who should adapt and integrate...
@poetsrear You're the only one sounding like an irregulated narc right now with all that shift blaming. Take a look in the mirror before leaving contradictory, silly comments.
If you don't have the capacity to communicate like the grown ass adult that you are, then that's on you and only on you!
@@poetsrear lmao not an avoidant here playing victim and projecting. Also, no one is seeing you that way. Most people just try to avoidants all together because of the behavior seen above in your comment.
@@poetsrear Avoidants will love bomb you at first. Show you how other r/ships with your peers don't matter. Make you feel so secure around them. Then boom! You wake up the next day and they're nowhere to be seen!!!
Some disappear for months then show up like nothing happened. No apologies and no thing. They repeat the same cycle and their habits are so consistent.
Love bomb, ghost, stonewall, show up when they notice the person stopped bothering them, act nice again, and repeat the same f u c k e r y!
You put so much work into this video and it is explained very well, I appreciate that. The only thing is that I can imagine a lot of desperate anxious folks using these videos to try to get a toxic partner back. This is all about how to cater to them and is very one sided. A healthy relationship means that both parties are working in themselves to make the relationship work. If the avoidant isn't recognizing their tendencies as toxic or trying to make healthy changes, they shouldn't be pursued. I hope everyone can recognize their worth and choose a partner who will treat them better
Exactly this. This video reinforces anxious obsessive behaviors and coddles avoidants once again.
I couldn't agree more. Instead of vilifying anybody, recognize that we all need to heal ourselves but have to still exist in the meantime. Even when I use my words and anxious partner won't even hear me hear what I'm saying.
No need to use formulas. Just work on yourself, find out what attracts you to avoidant people and try to heal it. Some day you'll wake up and realise you're not attracted to them anymore.
but what it is ??? i have been so many times in therapy but i never worked anything about my romantic relationships. why are we anxious people attracted to avoidants ? i just dont see anything. from my experience all my avoidant partners were very charming, funny, joyful, beautiful, talkactive, smart. but other people can by same... right ?
@@leinad1618emotional neglect in childhood. Work on abundance mindset and deservablility. Set strong boundaries and don't attach to people for the first six months until you get to know them. Have full juicy life apart from relationships and have non negotiables -stabdarts
Don't fix! People. If they are not giving you what you want and need walk away.
@@leinad1618 Secure that can be pulled anxious here. It is because many people look for a spark rather than a fire. A fire is calm and comforting. But not real exciting. We interact with all sorts of people, but we look for that spark to determine an attraction. Many people mistake feelings of anxiety for a spark. Those feelings of anxiety happen when someone starts to get distant. Secure people don't tend to go distant because it's not a coping method. Avoidants do.
So lets say you date 3 identical triplets, 2 secure and 1 avoidant. Those 3 people are nice and tick all your boxes, but you're not sure which one you like or if you have a spark with any. Then one day, one of them starts to pull away, so you wonder about them a little more. Because of our childhood attachments, we are hyper sensitive to when people are pulling away and it causes us a little bit of anxiety. Could be something as simple as a delayed text response or whatever. Anyways, cortisol gets released, and our brains dont like that. We want to resolve the anxiety. So our brains seek to rectify it the only way we know how. By seeking reassurance that we are still cared for. The reassurance soothes our anxiety. This tends to trigger the avoidants anxiety though, which is fear of getting too close. So their anxiety spikes and they get cortisol release. So they revert to their childhood soothing method which is to get a little more distant. This causes your anxiety to spike again. That is the anxious avoidant trap. It's a spiral to crash and burn. Each time they run and we try to draw closer, it actually creates an attraction in our brain. Even if we didn't like them really, because we fear losing them, our brain tricks us that we need them. Because we do in a sense, to calm our anxiety. So we perceive that this need is attraction. We perceive it as a spark. It is an attraction but not out of love, but rather to resolve our insecurities. It becomes an addiction to chemical releases. A trauma bond. Which is why these relationships can get so toxic and so hard to leave, and why people long for their ex's even though they know they are bad for them. Their brains are longing for that fix again. A healthy secure relationship is a slow build of love over time without that push/pull. It's foreign to many of us, but it is what true love and companionship is. Overcoming anxious attachment is not giving in to those anxiety impulses. It's like turning down that big delicious looking meal, because we know it's bad for us. Don't let anxiety affect your decisions on whether to reach out and whatnot. It's a ton easier to do this at the very beginning of a relationship rather than years in when your brain is hooked.
Now getting back to your question on how to stop being attracted to avoidants. I am by no means an expert, and on my own journey, but through lots and lots of therapy and research I have found that there are some core things. One, put your love for yourself above any partner. This ensures that you wont settle for being treated poorly. Next, don't chase. You need to learn to identify the anxiety when it happens, do not react on the anxiety, and deal with the anxiety in ways rather than the comfort from the other person. Self soothing methods. This is much easier to do earlier rather than later. If someone starts to pull away, you must let them. If you address it and it continues, you know you have an avoidant. Walk away. If someone wants to be with you, they will make the time to be with you. If they dont, then they aren't the right person for you. Stop focusing on the outcome that you want to make this person yours. Focus instead that you want to find the right person. Three, don't let yourself get attached so fast. Remember, we're building a fire here, not a spark. Real love takes time to grow. It is calm, gentle, strong and warm. Generally a spark will burn itself out pretty fast. Essentially an avoidant partner will show their true colors within like 3-6 months.
I have a theory as to why attachment styles change. Because throughout a relationship, a secure person's brain can become addicted to the chemicals. Or the avoidant persons brain can become used to not needing the chemicals as much, etc. But once a secure becomes addicted, even if they get clean, it's much easier to relapse into addiction again. It's so much mind over matter and self respect. Which is why secure people tend to be people that have good confidence and love themselves. You need that to be able to have the strength to walk away. That's why it all comes down to self love. This is also why it's so hard to grieve a relationship especially if you are dumped, and why many insecure people swing to new relationships or rebound so fast. They need that fix to continue. Essentially insecure people become love junkies, and why those that take time to be alone and 'detox' and heal, generally go on to be much more secure and healthy for the next relationship.
You have to love yourself enough to take it slow and respect your boundaries. Love yourself enough to not enmesh with them so fast but rather focus on your own life, friends, and hobbies too to make the relationship move slower, and love yourself enough to walk away when you sense these things, trusting your judgement, and that you will find the right one, even if it's not this one. When you find one that is going slow and maybe seems boring at first, dont just be like "he's boring, there's no spark". That's your brain tricking you saying "he can't give me the fix we want." Take time, get to know them, let those real love feelings build, not the anxiety spark. If someone meets all your boxes but there's no spark, chances are they are a secure person, and you could have an amazing relationship with them if you just give it time for the fire to build. Don't chase the spark. It's a trick, it's just our anxiety seeking a fix. That's why so many people skip the 'good guys' and chase the 'bad boys'. The bad boys are the avoidants and such, which is why you feel that spark.
But it was so weird my experience with her. Like she is my collegue and had the same ideology and interests as me. But in deed while we lived together it was after 2,5 months push and pulling, Alot of screaming and acting as a child. She is in therapy and now in EMDR. Maybe it would heal her. I wish her alot of luck on her journey...
His stonewalling literally sent me into a psychotic break, yes I was seeing things that weren't there and had delusions that I was being hunted down....so unless you're mentally strong to be putting up with periodic stonewalling I'd stay as far away from an avoidant as you can they can ruin your mental health and not even help you to recover, not financially or psychologically not to mention emotionally....
I’m sorry it is a terrible experience. ❤
How about walking in the shoes of an anxious for a change ?????? They were abused in childhood, not coddled („suffocated“) and the same is repeated in romantic relationships: the avoidant abuses the anxious, the anxious coddles the avoidant. It’s the avoidants way or the highway. They use and abuse then discard.
The thing is the highway is always the right way. They will either miss you and come back or flake out of your life forever. It's a win-win! The avoidant has no negotiating leverage.
The best way to win against an avoidant is to simply not play. They’re in no condition whatsoever to facilitate the love you want, even if they have it and wants to. Unless or until they heal that wound.
However, if they’ve gotten this far without addressing it, they likely won’t do it for you. The best you’ll get is they’ll love you from afar. I know from experience 😑
💯💯💯
😢😢😢
I am secure until I’m with someone more avoidant. It’s like a threat detection system I’ve learned to pay attention to - it’s never wrong. I’ve been pulled into anxious insecure attachment patterns a few times by avoidants but tend to re-center after I leave them or we become mutually secure in some instances. I noticed with this last partner (whom it became apparent was more avoidant towards the end), that when I would be doing my secure thing and respect his space while he does his stuff and I did mine, he’d have these anxious moments where he’d frantically call if I didn’t text back for awhile and ask why I wasn’t getting back to him. This sort of started a cycle where I was reassuring him and then he’d pull back and then I’d behave anxiously. He’s definitely dismissive avoidant though, not fearful avoidant. It’s honestly all just so frustrating and draining I want to be alone for a long time 😅
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I AM 🌻🌻🌻🌻
Similar experiences. I'm secure until I'm dealing with an avoidant. Then I catch the pattern and disengage. The pattern will go on forever if you let it.
You are probably not secure.
Secure person do not engage with avoidant person. Even if in some case they engage with avoidant person, they will hold secure position. They will have boundieres or leave. And they will not go in cycle.
You have anxious attachment.
Its easy to say avoidants pull you to anxious attachment but reality is you pull yourself to anxious.
Anxious attachment can be solved only by taking the responsability. Not by shifting responsability of your mental and emotional state on to others.
If you are secure you will not allow breach of your boundieres.
There is a reason behind your attraction to avoidant and puting yourself in cycle. Its not random.
Avoidants also give clear signs in begining of interaction. But i guess your attraction to them is to strong.
Take responsability and it will not be draining, frustrating anymore.
I can completely relate. I was never an anxious person in relationships until I was with an avoidant. One and done for me, sadly. Beautiful man inside and out but I can’t do the work for him.
I also respectfully disagree with the comment an avoidant gives clear signs in the beginning. That is the furthest thing from the truth, in my experience at least.
I wish I was an avoidant. How nice to be a natural taker with no accountability or awareness.
those traits are not inherent to people with avoidant attachment styles. Being avoidant doesn't mean you definetely take no accountability and have no awareness, although I guess it often occurs. It can be compared to knowing it's bad to eat animals, but doing so anyways because you feel the need to so.
I wish I could like this comment more than once! 👏
😆
The thing is being avoidant is on a spectrum. I believe myself to be FA leaning AP. I am a fearful avoidant however I am deeply empathetic, super into self improvement, personal development and spiritual growth...But that is the thing to remember there is a spectrum and there is a crossover on the higher end between narcissism and avoidants
I have thought that I wished this and have at or more that I was less angry and and and anxious and more emotionally regulated and had less empathy lol
Avoidants are very painful to be with. I have tried, probably more than I should, but I am not a therapist and desire an equal partner, not a patient. I hope they all get the help they need and stop hurting well meaning people. I do really appreciate your explanation in this video though, it is helpful to making sense of the pain and confusion. Appreciate you!
This is so sad I know a man who was adopted out of foster care as a toddler. He is one of the most financially successful yet the most lonely and volatile people I have ever met. The slightest perceived rejection or disrespect from anyone triggers him to no end. A normal conversation can set him off and you will be standing there with no clue as to what you could have said wrong. He has spent 65 years unable to truly connect with anyone.
Perfect corporate citizen. no distractions from generating income and profit.
@xyaeioujust need narcissism or sociopath to finish it
Alot of highly conventionally successful people like this man you described are avoidants. Its the very nature of the game, these people seek intensity outside of the relationship, and this often is in the form of business/work. It's their demons which drive them. They look real shiny on the outside, sadly the internal mind is a waste lonely wasteland that they can't even confront.
Or..they have moved on and are too cowardly to tell you they're interested in someone else. They like to keep that door open just in case.
WOmen do that
@@lostonthepathoflife Men do it too.
Yep. Happened to me.
Some people do it just to push buttons and get a reaction from you. I learned this from a fearful avoidant who eventually admitted it.
I had a boyfriend like that in high school. He used stonewalling to control me like a puppet. It was emotional abuse. When my last boyfriend started doing it I saw it for what it was and after trying to set boundaries 3 times only to have them ignored (and me ignored) I broke up with him after only 2 months. We live and we learn
Yeah, it can be used as a manipulative tactic.
Some avoidants definitely have some narcissistic traits
all@@mgn1621
Then they are not fearful avoidants, they are manipulators
Yes I was going to bring that up. Space makes avoidance want more space and more space until they don't come forward and begin to use it as manipulation
Wrong
Okay I’m new to this term as of right now. Funny thing… I am the avoidant. I didn’t know that’s what I was doing. I hope not to receive any hate by confessing this. I just shut down, like my entire body starts shaking and I can barely speak when I feel my autonomy or independence being challenged. I was raised by a very controlling narcissistic step mother, my birth mother was not my safety as a young child and gave me away at age 3 to be exact. My dad didn’t want me either for a long time. I am now married to a beautiful diagnosed autistic man. He knows himself but lacks any idea of any of this about me. We’ve been together almost 6 years and every step of commitments along the way has been triggering to my avoidance issues. I recently shut down again this week when an old topic was brought up again. I’m now sleeping in the living room and I don’t even want to be touched. Understanding it’s a me problem, I’ve still interacted, try hugging, try participating in daily activity together but I’m struggling. He is so kind and patient. My question… how on earth do I share this with him when I totally feel like this is still just a me problem? I don’t want to feel this way. It sucks! I don’t want to avoid the love of my life , but my brain feels no feelings currently and my skin feels like needles. I understand it’s all me, I don’t know how to rewire my brain not to feel afraid. Sorry if tmi to anybody out there.
I feel seen by your comment.
please consider therapy,you are hurting yourself and your partner as well so it is absolutely not just a you problem. it effects both of you so both of you should work on overcoming it. just realizing these things and looking for a solution is a very great step towards being better for yourself and your partner. i'm sure your partner will be understanding just try your best to be open. i am recovering from a break-up with an avoidant and trust me, if he stopped considering that a me problem like you do and was open and vulnerable with me i would've helped him in every way i could because i cared and loved him so deeply. it's been months and i'm still here learning about his attachment style trying to understand because it causes so much pain and confusion. please open up to your partner, they deserve it
The most frustrating thing in the world, being with an avoidant, is their continuous refusal to communicate. Just speak ! ! Just say it!!!! That continuous desire to have the right words, is still more drive to control and avoid vulnerability. Just say it. You're just human like everyone one else!!!
@@JA-qk8gt we for sure have talked about it since I made this post! We both have talked about therapy for me as well when the funds are available. Thank you for your encouragement.
@@HIBAHiba-fv7gg we actually have talked about since I’ve made this post and things are going better. Getting a therapist when I’m able :)
The irony of developing all these "formulas" to deal with and attract an avoidant is that only an anxious person would put up with that. Avoidants don't want secure people; they want someone on their terms, someone who will put up with their bs (an anxious attacher) and then they resent them for it lmao. A secure person surely would not be having to come up with equations.
Right
A secure person would do all of these things intuitively after some trial and error if they were really invested in this other person. Personally, it's a lot of work, and I have better things to do than to deal with all of that nonsense further.
@@letsdomath1750 Facts. A secure person wouldn't even put up with this bs.
@@letsdomath1750 They will put up with it, only for a while. Its natural for every emotionally healthy person to want to make compromises to make a relationship work, its part of the work requirement in any relationship. A really secure person will not really tolerate this kind of dynamic for the long term for sure. With avoidants, they have such a low level of self awareness, thus no acountability. They're essentially the perfect formula for failure when trying to create a truly healthy relationship. They create toxic relationships, which they feel safe in, and stay in those for the long term.
Thank you for this video. Early childhood neglect and trauma changes the way you see yourself and others. It’s not that the avoidant doesn’t care. I am avoidant myself. As an avoidant myself I had to learn to self soothe myself as a child and did not have an example of healthy ways to regulate my emotions. I've been in and out of therapy for years now and done inner work and my attachment style hasn't changed. It is not easy for avoidants. I have constant guilt for avoiding closeness with others. I have been in relationships with other avoidants who held a mirror to myself which made me more self aware. From my experience most people do not have a secure attachment style.
the issue is they pretend they are secure. and only when the trigger comes, the partner of friend sees it. so they should be themselves from beginning on
So, I always thought I was avoidant. I think that's probably true, although I am quite self reflective and have pretty healthy habits. I always need space when I'm upset, but instead of stonewalling, I just ask for space. And, honestly, when I am given that space, it is such an amazing gift. It makes me feel completely safe. It makes me feel absolutely secure and increases the trust in the relationship. And then I can come back and we can have whatever discussion is necessary. I'm really lucky to have somebody in my life that I can have that peacefulness with.
You sound like me. I test secure with a touch of avoidant. I think it's a good thing to be able to take some space and get your thoughts together before speaking. It's better than just being volatile and throwing out every hurtful thought that enters your head while you're upset!
Bro!!!! I love how you have a stonewall formula... That's amazing. When my girl does this next time I'm gonna calculate it! I know she's fearful avoidant but luckily the severity of stonewalling hasn't been too bad. This channel and others is actually helping me heal my anxiousness. Because at first i was obsessing about her behavior. But then I started realizing that it's me too. And that I have real abandonment issues from drug addicted parents, foster care, etc. going back and healing that is what I'm more focused on now. What she does is less and less affecting me, and now I almost don't even care because I trust that that's just how she coped her whole life so far too
Stonewalling=Ghosting= Drop a person like a used off object?
The end effect is...the damage other people and give them trust issues.I have been ghosted and it broke my trust on people
I don't ghost. I'm avoidant.
@@rebeccagrech6036 but do you withdrwa suddenly? I dated many avoidants and know I am attracted to them so I have developped coping mechanisms, and I know when it is too much and tell them. I know it is over but at leastI know where my boundaries are. do ou know yours and communicate them at the beginning? not just "I need often space! but really telling the triggers. For ex do you need 2 days alone? or want to meet the person once a week?
@@rebeccagrech6036 True avoidants are very prone to ghosting. Ghosting is avoidance.
Haven't dealt with a few avoidants in my life I have come to place where my opinion is, once the person knows they are avoidant, if they are so damn independent then they need to admit their shit and call themselves out on their unhealthy avoidant behaviours.
Thank you Chris! After 20 years with my avoidant partner, you have made it so much easier to clearly see and understand what is going on and, what I need to be and do.
💯% Truth.
At 34yrs old, I am finally aware of my fear avoidant attachment style. Finally working to heal!
Been with my avoidant wife for 19yrs and I’m an anxious but once I learned to pull away when she does she breaks after a couple days and comes to me wondering why then she’s all about being close and loving. Just ignore em and do your own shit they want to be emotionally abusive and test your boundaries you do it back for what ever reason they are doing it it’s seems to be about controlling the situation and relationship from what I’ve seen
That sounds dysfunctional
Sounds like you're paying a high price for that relationship.
If you love that person, understand them emotionally, and don't mind (even enjoy??🤫) the "break", it sounds like you have worked it out very well.
19 yrs of mind games ? Hell no fam. Happy for you if it works out but personally I would rather stay single.
I think being anxious I find it hard to ignore them and do my own thing. We do pretty much everything together. I guess I need to start there. Doing my own thing.
After a tumultuous on and off relationship with an avoidant, it was so much more relieving to date someone who is secure. Returns calls and messages, says how he feels, have proper conversations with. Unfortunately it didn't work out, but would definitely pick that over another avoidant.
All of them can go date each other...
You've made the video so beautifully well. No beating around bush and talking all relevant points. Real gold!
They’re hard work man! What kind of a relationship is that? When you have to be constantly on your toes 🙄
Its the avoidants responsibility to meet the anxious half way.
Nobody is supposed to bear the responsibility of being ‘the mind reader’ in the relationship.
They both need to communicate their need as soon as possible during conflict. Prefferably before conflict, but to learn this skill one must practise.
The best thing to do is communicate about the patterns and how to solve conflicts at a calm and neutral time, so not during conflict, and the practise safe phrases to use during a conflict.
Like: “I am feeling overwhelmed and in need of space to regulate myself, but please remember I still love you” or: “I am feeling anxious and affraid you will stop loving me, and I am having trouble regulating this alone without reasurance - if we can’t coregulate on this, just know that I might need atleast twice as long as you to come back to a regulated state”. Calm voices only on both sides.
Good point, thank you
I was as compassionate, direct, and accommodating to him as I could be, to the point of self-abandon. I was dismissed, disrespected, unappreciated, and unheard, and after so much time being patient in what was basically an emotionally abusive dynamic, I snapped. It exploded whatever was left of the dynamic, but I have no regrets. He needed to hear the uncomfortable truths. I'm just upset that at the end of it all, I'm painted as the villain in his story. Now thanks to him, he's all I talk about in therapy, I'm traumatized, and I'm on medication :)
Not worth it. He and I were compatible in so many ways, but he sabotaged our relationship to hell. I can never subject myself to such unkindness to myself ever again.
Went thru the same. I went from secure to a nuclear explosion and snapped. Then Suddenly for no reason youtube started suggesting these videos and now I understand exactly what I was in. See I was so busy doing a narcissist detection test which came back negative everytime that I didn't realize it was something just as damaging going on....being out of it is the win 🙃 .....we were never the problem. I feel sane and secure again.
@comeagyn I'm so sorry you went through that... once you start dating more secure people or just people who can more openly love you in general, you'll come to realize that you were never the problem, and none of what you endured says anything about your worth. I met someone who makes me feel so loved. And he's better in every way. Other guy was a drug addict, a loser, who was dedicated to making me feel beneath him.
@@Nick-os3gn congrats on getting away getting back healthy emotionally and finding someone who's more of a vibratory match 👏... I've had very health loving relationships and always have the luxury of amicable separation. So with this toxic bs, it was me "trying something different"...me being the I can love us enough for the both of us person and nah, I love me more. I'm taking an intermission from dating, and then I'll be back when it's time. But it feels good when you pick SELF.
@Nick-os3gn Forget the a**clown and concentrate on being happy. You've already wasted too much of your life and energy on this fool. Tell yourself what he thinks doesn't matter; what he says doesn't matter; that you are not going to waste a single more second on this man. I would really recommend EMDR - it sounds crazy but it does work and it's designed specifically for people with PTSD who want to heal. I had really bad PTSD after a very abusive relationship and the EMDR faded the memories so they don't trigger me emotionally any more (no longer getting flashbacks). Talking about it kept the wounds open; EMDR faded the scars. I truly wish you health, love and happiness my friend. Remember you deserve nothing less.
@tc6758 thank you so much! I'm actually doing much better, and today is the first day that I realize how much better off I've been without him. Been taking care of myself and even making travel plans that I know I wouldn't have otherwise had he continued to be in my life 🥰
I'm a secure dealing with an avoidant. I know it hurts a lot, I won't be telling you to keep trying. But be patient, because if that person really love you and care about you. They will change, they will try to better themselves for you. But this takes time and a lot of patience. It's going to be a long journey. You can always stop and find someone else
The backlash towards dismissive avoidants is similar to that towards narcissists, and it is basically because neither can take any accountability.
As a former anxiously attached, I have done the work to move away from anxiety. It is the DA’s job to do the same to reduce their avoidance.
We are ever only in control of our own thoughts and behaviour, and are not responsible for what anyone else, including DAs and narcs, thinks or does.
Anxiously attached is insecure but there's a good reason this group doesn't get anywhere NEAR the amount of flak avoidants do. Its very easy to deal with an anxious attacher. Its just constant reassurance, it gets annoying. Thats about it. But an anxious will not rip your heart out from one moment to the next.
This was so great! I am an anxious avoidant. After a unhealthy childhood and being in many abusive relationships this attachment style has been my response. I get very afraid when someone moves to fast in a relationship and if there anxious it’s even worse. Understanding this can be hard and I know I have hurt people but it’s not my intention. I get afraid of losing my independence. It’s were I have felt the most safe. When someone gives me space and understands it really helps me. Through therapy I have learned to communicate what I am feeling as well.. instead of just closing down. If someone is understanding it helps me a lot. Thankyou for this video 🙏
I love the comments! Seems like we're all basically on the same page-- if you can, run before they eat you alive!
That's some next level hate
A lot of these comments are negative, so here’s my positive experience:
I fell for a girl, I knew I could see myself being with her for the rest of my life. I dream of marriage and a family as much as anyone, but I’m avoidant. I told her I was avoidant but didn’t really mention how it manifested in our relationship.
Even though from the beginning I knew I wanted to be with her, when we’d hung out a lot that week, or texted nonstop, or started to get more physical, I would go home questioning everything. Alarm bells would go off in my head and I would doubt my feelings for her. I would pull away for a bit. And she didn’t push. And then I would feel safe again.
Only through watching this video did it occur to me that she might have done research into how to help avoidants feel safe as the relationship progresses. of course in times when she needed it, I would set aside my discomfort to make sure I was there for her. I’m eternally grateful for her patience
All the avoidants I have ever found were Narcissists starting with my dad a covert narcissist. Even if the avoidant is not a narcissist there is something very toxic about these people. It takes 2 healthy people to make a healthy relationships. If one of these people are not healthy the scales will tip the end will come. Life is stressful enough without having to use FBI tactics to be in a relationship. Think about all this time you need to put in: videos you watched, books you read, trying to figure out this person to be able to be with them. If you could put this time into you and grow a better version of yourself and attract better things!
They're not narcissists in that they're not selfish or egotistical people. It's just like having a second job as an amateur hostage negotiator trying to accommodate their toxic traits.
They stonewall you and expect to talk to you again after a while like nothing happened 😂 yeah no thanks.. nobody want to deal with a child in a grown ups body.
That is so true, they act like it never happened. Its crazy
Yessss!!!!
Haha 100%.
This!
Were not children we want you to shut up and go to work
my brain is too small to work formulas on people i hate playing chess and i dont like games
Then keep being you and having the same outcomes you've always gotten.
@@redpilljesus Or play an entirely different game than the one Sunny has been playing AND different than the one Chris is suggesting - detect avoidant behavior and immediately LEAVE.
@@brucefullwood yeah - good one. I'm sure that works just fine when it's a spouse, when they have your kids, when they're your kids, when they're your parents. Good call.
@@redpilljesusno but theirs people than can bail before kids !! You know that’s what their taking about . Leave before your in deep of it’s a new relationship
I just love the analogy with Wuthering Heights. I never liked that book but now it's become meaningful and relateable.
MOST EXCELLENT discussion of this topic ever, IMHO.
ENORMOUS THANKS ❤
I started researching this detachment style a couple of years ago and took such a deep dive into it, I no longer found dismissive avoidants attractive and even volatile fearful avoidants are dysregulating because there's a hairline trigger with them you don't know exists. It's like an invisible tripwire and all bets are off the second you unknowingly touch it. They rage and often vanish, and I just let them. I used to be a fearful avoidant myself but was consistently gentle with people which I guess made me atypical. I didn't want to upset or confuse anyone, and I saw it as being loyal to continue engaging or at least allowing access even if they were abusive or unkind. Now, I don't want to walk on eggshells as a lifestyle and if I've done my work, they can too. If they don't want to, I don't want them. Bottom line is some people will force you to choose between you and them. Always choose you. Your person(s) would never force such an unreasonably unfair decision. Love always makes room for more than one. ❤
I'm a fearful avoidant. I am aware of my insecure attachment style. I'm working on my issues in therapy. Some people bring out my anxious side, others bring put my avoidant side.
@@PerrySkyePhoenix Congratulations! ❤ Self-awareness and a willingness to act on it really are the keys to healthier connections. I found the same. Anxious people would influence me to more avoidance and avoidant people would influence me toward anxiety. Now, I see these as warning signs that this person may not be self-aware and instead has a tendency to blame others for their results in relationships. I attempt to communicate with them in a non- judgemental, observational way and after a reasonable amount of effort and time, if there's still no movement in the right direction, I usually withdraw without drama (at least from side) because they're showing me they're not ready to face their childhood conditioning and that's ok. This journey is hard and it ain't for everyone. I'd rather connect with those who it's for.
I'm glad that you have identified what doesn't work for you. Good insight. Good job doing the research. Many people never figure out about this attachment style.
Jesus. This is crazy & too much work. I don't want formulas, FBI tactics etc for a relationship😐🙄
You have no idea how far people can go for something called love
@@mickeymouse3075that and it's not like theyre total invalids, they know and appreciate what you do, and show incredible kindness and generosity in turn. But it's not for everyone.
Well, they can secretly want anything they like, but in real life they should take responsibility on their own actions and development. Of course you can help, if they ask and are working on their issues, but otherwise, just leave.
Life is short, there not your problem. Dump them and move on and don't look back.
They're, not there
You can have compassion and patience with a partner as the two of you learn how to navigate conflict. With this said, learning how to repair conflict early and often is critical to any relationship. This is where agreements on how you will operate within the relationship, including how the two of you will handle conflict is necessary. If the two of you agree that you wont go 48 hours without coming together to resolve or at least step back in to begin a negotiation or process, then this agreement needs to be upheld.
Trust and safety isnt possible if one or both partners consistently shut down and stonewall as a means of self regulation, or use it as a strategy to communicate their upset.
No matter the attachment style, if after some time, and after youve made an agreement with your partner on how you wiko handle conflict, and they still use stonewalling to self soothe, it would be necessary to place some boundaries and consequences around that behavior, rather than continuing to give unending understanding and acceptance. If you dont put this in place, resentment over your need for safety will grow and grow.
Game over.
222 comments that’s me and my beloveds number. I agree it takes compassion, compassion, compassion. And this is a good reminder of how terrified an avoidant feels about losing their independence. And how to work with them. Well done !!
After watching several of your vids, i have to come to the comment to say , Your videos are incredibly amazing put together, and my fav is how you break down all the info , this makes it absolutly easy to understand.
THANK YOU CHRIS.
Was married to one for 20 years. Make them feel the most safe by leaving. Your sanity will thank you.
This video was nothing short of incredible.. Quality work!
There is so much hate on public display for us who struggle with this attachment style. I understand that these people have been hurt. I also suspect that the people who spout these strong negative opinions publicly have a fundamental lack of empathy in the moment they decide to post their hate for the world and people around them. Personally, I am accountable for my behaviour, and I make grave mistakes in relationships. At the same time ... I had little power in my childhood - which is largely what made me who I am today. It is important to acknowledge this, and to put effort into breaking it all down, so that the avoidant can BECOME secure. It is impossible to do alone, and it is essentially anti-social to call us "narcissists" or other demeaning names, when we are ALL in the process of becoming who we are.
I agree 👏
I am an avoidant but even I wouldn't support this bs.
There is a degree of avoidance which is "working on it" And a degree which is "unhealthy for any other person involved"
I don't believe in promoting sacrificial (or self suppressing) love. Advice like this can enable people who aren't working on themselves to torment partners who are trying to do the work for them.
Individuals with anxious attachments are not compatible with avoidants, and they are just as dysfunctional due to their own traumas. Healing would be hindered in those dynamics.
It's not my purpose to fix him. I am perplexed on how to even communicate with him. It's like a bomb could go off at no notice. One word can be a trigger. Too much psychological work. Am not a shrink. Am in the legal field and thrive in truth. This confused avoidant man cannot face truth and consequences. So strange that you would never know someone can be this broken
This is the MOST well done, backed up video I've seen. The rest seem like opinions now, not information. Thank you. I don't know if it's even up to me anymore but at least it tells me how to respond because I've just been frozen in despair.
May I ask why even bother with those people? After seeing the calculation example as to how many days I should give them space it seems that only obsessed person would be down to do the math. Whats the prize here? An unreliable baby version of an adult in vicinity? No thanks
right?! i love math but not like that
You get nothing but more sacrifice and the fact you can't count on them to be there for you while you have to jump hoops and make sacrifices to accommodate them. Absolutely bonkers anyone would sign up for this scam of a deal.
Exactly. There's a level of cognitive dissonance in this video. It's all about how avoidants need to partner with a secure person...that a secure person ALWAYS gives an avoidant ridiculous amounts of space...but the formulas requried to interact with an avoidant are absurd and something only an unhealthy, anxious attacher would even think about. All these videos just reinforce anxious and avoidant behaviors. It's all BS. The avoidant is even less likely to change if you enable them. If you have to be a GD psychologist to be in a relationship with them, then wtf why??? Only for them to treat you like $hit. It's a joke.
Why are you commenting on this video? Clearly, plenty of people are clamoring for help with avoidant people. Do you want him to make a video saying, "Just leave them alone"?
You will understand that only if you love someone unconditionally
This guy Chris is just a genious. Thanks for those smart and powerful insights
The delivery on this video is impeccable and easily digestible ✨
This was the most helpful video I've seen on this subject. Thank you!
Solid info, thanks a lot. Your channel has been a great help lately.
What I have noticed with my avoidant is that she basically gives me a key every time, but because I'm an anxious(slowly transforming into secure) and have all the thinking patterns that come with it, I just didn't notice the key for a very long time and tried to break the door with a crowbar of my love and attention. And that's exactly the opposite of what I should have been doing this whole time.
It's hard when an avoidant gives you no feedback and you naturally start questioning the whole thing, asking yourself, does he/she even care? But the answer to this, in my cas is: it's been three years. As an anxious I now realise I've made all yhe possible mistakes. And she keeps on reaching back to me, even after months of withdrawal. That's how I know she cares. What might seem as a a mere grain of sand from your perspective, is actually a big deal for the avoidant and might rrally be a sign of reaching out to you despite all the fears and insecurities they have to battle through.
This video is great! Hes pretty much mentioning things not long after im thinking of each point and reasoning!
I tend to be primarily FA, so I'm all over the place between anxious and avoidant depending on the person, place, timing, context, and circumstances.
I notice that what I would often like in response depends on my subconscious or conscious reasonings and whether or not the trigger is based on
1.) socio-cultural perceptions and incompatabilities such as age and existing relationship status
2.) the particular relationship role the person is seeking, combined with actual incompatabilities such as gender and sex, and my level and type attraction to them,
3.) general life and task overwhelm/stress,
4.) disruption of independence in a perceptibly or truly incompatible relationship/personality types,
5.) or personal insecurities and fears of lack of reciprocation or unsustainability of personal effort on the part of myself or the other person, usually itself due to life overwhelm.
6.) distance (refers back to 5, sustainability and expense of effort or finances)
7.) fears of indirectly causing seemingly irrepairable harm or emotional damage to the person or their family through the connection between two seemingly incompatible worlds
When attempting to establish a long term romantic relationship specifically (as opposed to a friendship, short term training, experimental, or curiosity based relationship),
in almost every case except #1
(if extremely over or under my most preferable age range, being between 24 and 36, which is usually based on concerns involving all of the above), #2, and maybe #6, my more avoidant tendencies can be broken down by the boiling frog method combined with general physical attractiveness, hygene/upkeep, and dress (without stressing their finances or mine),
as well as small, but noteworthy efforts and details, initiative in breaking a stalemate or establishing a positive pattern of knowable and perceptible desire to progress, among other things.
Rarely, even in the numbered cases above except #2, to my personal horror, my boundaries and tendencies can be broken down for the long term through the above sets of actions and sheer willpower combined with surrounding relationships, initial contexts, and circumstances, especially if the age discrepancy is not extreme or unlawful for the role or the physical, intellectual, and/or spiritual fitness and attractiveness/upkeep is present... if it is, and I've started stonewalling and put up resistance against invasion for that particular role, (such as a long term romantic relationship or even short term sexual or semi-sexual...) forget it... that wall is never coming down until that person backs off or changes their desired role from romantic or sexual to platonic friends or perhaps some sort of financially, socially, educationally, or professionally productive or acceptable role, but even that may go through periods of distancing or lack of relationship maintanence oriented activities like communication.
However, in EVERY case where I'm resisting or distancing from someone or relationship I clearly romantically or at least semi-sexually desire and meets socio-culturally acceptable and/or personal standards, there absolutely must be a clear and obvious desire for progression and stability (in other words this particular action set still most likely won't work in the case of #2, or in the case of other kinds of relationships, but might work in the case of #1 and #6.
In cases where secure or anxious progression signaling or the boiling frog pan won't work, simply backing off for a while and giving space reducing the amount of interaction and communication attempts, but not totally removing them, will probably work at least to repair a non-romantic or sexual role and relationship, except in the case of #5 and maybe #7... if the fears can be overcome and the surrounding circumstances, contexts, and communication adapted.
There also shouldn't be any percieved mixture of motives and signaling, such as financial with romantic or semi-sexual or sexual, and there must be clear attempts at communicating and establishing a relationship outside of a work environment and context or I will end up confusing motives and perhaps unnecessarily rejecting myself or the girl specifically in a romantic or even friendship context and possibly, at least in the short term (unless genuine value has been established with manageable levels of interaction) even a work, social, or commercial context.
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Honestly though, most of my emotional damage to myself and the continued establishment of my avoidant or anxious tendencies, my fearful mixture, has to do with the fact that I have in the past typically comitted most of my attatchment energy and focus toward other avoidants because they lack sustained positive progression, clear desire, and openness signalling, and I crave that attatchment with because it's an excuse for a non-commital attatchment as a block to potentially high quality commited relationships due to past frustrations with personal insecurities and fears of abandonment....
so I seek out romantic relationships with women who are clearly experienced and trigger happy when it comes to rejection of themselves or others or, I seek long distance relationships, or relationships where there could be confusion between fiancial abuse, work or commercial cordiality, and genuine interest in progression because...
it's a seemingly predictable or enforcable negative outcome and in my perception of the probable outcome I feel personally secure... but never genuinely satisfied, fulfilled, or secure......
wow... that hit... I've never been able to define the problem like that...
There might have been early signs she was avoidant but they were minor and I didn’t recognize then. But the boiling frog analogy aplies here after about seven years. Things were going well, we were accumulating money, more stability and happy times were happening. I couldn’t inmagine oit going south as it has in the last 4-5 years. At first I was anxious and did everything wrong. Only made her pull away worse. I have learned to give her space. Things have improved, for her. But now she is fine with this tremendous intimacy gulf between us and has this idea this is the new Normal that she seems to be fine with. I have learned these FBI tactical empathy methods, and I’ve also gotten myself together to not let it affect me. But I don’t want to live this way going forward. I’d rather have a partner who is invested in the relationship and appreciates a good one. Where it’s a two way street I’d give and take. I’m getting off this one way street!
I feel this to the core, I hope you left
I’m done….. too much work. But thanks for the education.
This is so fascinating to learn now that I've experienced it twice and was broken both times by silent treatment. I truly thought ghosting was meant to be intentional punishment, so it's helpful to learn that it wasn't. But hell, it's one of the most toxic things I've ever experienced... Imagine needing to calculate a friggin formula for how many days to allow someone to stonewall you. I'm so glad to understand this now, but I'd much prefer not to have to apply this to real relationships in the future.
The doors thing and the visual parts, absolutely satisfying! Thanks, you’re a genius Chris. 👏🏼
One of the ways I am healing myself after my avoidant dismissive boyfriend broke up with me pulled the rug out from underneath my legs with no indication that it was coming. Without help in guidance from people who know this subject very well I would be lost. Thank you so much for providing this outlook on avoiding dismissives.
I was in a relationship with a girl who was in a previous toxic 10 year relationship that she left 2 years ago. Her and I hit it off for a couple of months and it felt like she would of been the one up until she got incredibly depressed about everything and brought up how she was supposed to get married this certain day of the month. At the end of the month, she said she was unhappy, didn't want to talk about any of it and she ended things. For 3 months of NC, she didn't once reach out and in fact she decided to finally block me after her birthday. I left one last message to her saying I respect her silence but, I have to move on if you're never going to talk. As someone who's anxious, the whole time I had believed I was an awful person and needed to do all these things to hear from her.. it's messed up.
What's the point in performing any, let alone all, of these calculations for someone who is reciprocating AND acknowledging none of the effort, interest or energy being expended? I initially thought he was just avoidant but now am convinced that in the most vulnerable states I've ever experienced, that it wasn't a profound yet complicated connection that I'd fallen into but rather the throws of narcissistic charm and subsequent abuse.
You need a whole episode on tactical empathy and patience.
There was a point in time when I used to watch Chris's videos religiously in hopes of understanding avoidants because of a relationship I had. It's been a long while now and I was able to get out of that relationship and flourish.
I learned that no matter how great of a person you are, you will never be enough for an avoidant. You will forever be waiting for the shoe to drop, anxious and losing your mind. They are miserable people and should be left to work on themselves.
Unless you really want your soul sucked out of your body and have endless tears do yourself a favour and choose yourself. There are far much better individuals full of love and compassion out there. Oh! And the phantom ex is a thing, they do come back. Once you're over them, I can confidently say that they aren't special in your eyes anymore.
I wish anyone who has this kind of partner healing and I hope you are able to break free.
So I have been married to an “avoidant” for ten years now and he is also bipolar II. What a roller coaster ride I have been on. These videos have really explained things to me in the last few months that I wish I knew ten years ago. I was a secure attachment style (even though I came out of a 29 year marriage to a man who was diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder and Intermittent Explosive Disorder.) Now I have become Anxious attachment and it gets exhausting “giving him his space” all the time. It’s a lonely marriage and feels like a death by a thousand cuts. Luckily we finally just started marriage counseling and he is trying to get on meds for his mental health issues. He hid his avoidant style we when we dated because I am not a “chaser” and I was working full time and going to school full time. I think that drew him to me.
I created a safe and understanding place for this person. Even though they say they love me, They just kept going for someone else, the new and shiny. Forfeiting a long deep/safe/secure relationship
Married to a DA for thirty years. I figured out the formula. Arduous work. It worked for me. I just mirror him. Now I am DAish…💀
This is exactly why mirroring won't work. You just sacrifice YOUR boundaries (whether secure or anxious) for the avoidant's and end up getting your needs unmet. It's a recipe to becoming more insecure. It's a recipe for codependency.
@@brennam954 It seems with her being married to a DA for 30 years, he charges some of her supply, too. Anxious and dependent enough to have made their marriage work by becoming a willing participant in the game instead of saying “game over”.
This is exhausting! I'm all for having compassion and empathy, but the bottom line is, if the avoidant is not willing to do their own work, it's not possible to develop a healthy, reciprocal relationship.
thank you so much for this video and all schooling you give us about avoidants. Thank you for adressing the comment section, I am very disappointed to see how many don't understand the real issues and have a lack of emphathy towards avoidants. keep doing the great job!
@@tijana_veljic many here do understand. It’s sad. But once you’ve fallen in love with one that mislead you acting secure then flips the script into a “crazyship” most understand that fixing their core wounds is the grown avoidant’s total responsibility period. We are all adults. Many are affected by avoidant abuse no matter the justification. Avoidant’s don’t get to mentally abuse good people then walk away with a hug. Total nonsense
This just changed my entire LIFE: 5:20 avoidants react sudden to quick change but not to gradual changes- key is him not detecting the boiling water/trigger point! Tactical empathy and labelling: 17:45
13:45 - There should be no such thing as "winning over someone" in a genuine relationship. We win together. To be clear - this is a constructive criticism, not a judgement of your intent.
It helps in situations with Narcissists and borderlines. I've dealt with both and they want to control
Her actions got her blocked. I was never trying to date her she wanted me and couldn’t express. Ultimately she disappeared on me and then I blocked her. Now she’s trying to reach out from random numbers texting and calling. Please go play games with someone else .
The same thing happened to me with a guy at work. He disappeared on me after making what he thought was a big gesture showing me he liked me (aka he freaked himself out). I realized then he is avoidant and I was/am like ‘hell no.’ Now I intentionally avoid him, I want NOTHING to do with him. Since then (once he stopped freaking out) he tried to get my attention again/showed interest but I am not having it. I am not having anything to do with that freak.
You’ve earned my respect. Thanks for not demonising them ❤
My man is exactly like this and understanding what avoidants feel has really saved the relationship and brought it to a very deep level. He is the most reliable man I have ever met.