I can confirm it takes a long time to improve as a person. I was raised on Pat Robertson's 700 Club and Rush Limbaugh. After I realized how wrong they were, I could intellectually move away, but the years of indoctrination were still there and were still running. It took ten years of self-improvement to root it out.
I still like Pat Robertson emotionally, even though I morally and intellectually hate him. He raised me, my mom suffered severe PPD and I was raising my three siblings under five while recently disabled. I'd take notes on being happy and a good mother from him and it helped me a lot. He was the grandfather I never had and his advice kept me sane and stable in the nightmare little me found myself in back then.
Good on you for becoming a better person. I myself was forced to listen to Limbaugh and G. Gordon Liddy as a child by my father. Thank god I grew out of that shit and into a decent human being.
I still struggle with old religious dogma. It doesn't help that I have a crazy freezing fear of hell, as outlined in christian books. Me stepping away is me being brave. Otherwise I would be a coward for staying in the religious world that I'm not fully committed to.
If wishing for terrible people to die actually worked, most of the terrible people wouldn't get up to 1/10th of the stuff that made them remembered as terrible to begin with.
If people could wish people dead, we'd all be dead. I saw a near truck on truck accident yesterday that would have had both drivers wishing the other dead.
@@jackielinde7568 Then we'd have 2 unmanned trucks barrelling down the highway killing gods know how many others before the whole shebang comes to a crashing halt... and more people start wishing for deaths. I agree with Steve: if wishes killed, the human race would survive about 10 minutes.
That's right! MacGyver's grandfather, who also once flew an airplane back in time, committed one of the most sweeping acts of genocide ever referenced in a Star Trek show. He felt bad about it, though.
@@SteveShives What's really stinky is he wasn't sad enough to wish them back into existence- what kind of weenie omnipotent being posing as a mortal was he?
My favorite phrase is: I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. I would call 911 for them but I wouldn't put them out. I also like to say to that the world would be a better place if they weren't in it anymore, which is not exactly a wish. It comes very close to being one without actually being one.
Yep, that's the way I am with Trump supporters. I wouldn't lift a finger to help them no matter what happened. I wouldn't be able to be a doctor. If they were starving I would eat pizza in front of them while laughing. If they were on fire and I had a bottle of water, I would drink the water and walk away. I wouldn't even piss on them.
I'm reminded of the great Christopher Hitchens upon news of the death of Falwell. "If you had given him an enema, you could have buried him in a matchbox".
I always said that you can always say something positive when someone dies. Either the positive things that they did in their life or that their death is a positive thing.
I generally don't explicitly wish people dead but I do wish a lot of people would stop. In practice though those two things are very often one and the same.
@@DarylTUBA I generally wish for certain people's heart to "start", if you know what I mean, but if it stopping makes the harm they do stop as well, that's good enough
I tend to see a life like Pat Robertson’s as a tragedy. He could have been so much better, he could have been so much more. Instead he squandered his years on hate.
There's a Midrash (a religious story of Jewish nature) that tells of a rabbi who comes home to find all three of his boys dead and laid out. It's clear that they were murdered by anti-Semitic thugs. In his grief, as he's crying over the bodies of his children, he's screaming out to God to do away with those sinners who'd had violated the most basic of tenets, "You shall not kill". He looks up at his wife and asks her, "Why does God not answer me?" To which, his wife replies, "Maybe you're not asking the right thing of him." He then wishes for sin to be removed, and his wish is granted. Obviously this is a story that didn't happen. But we shouldn't be wishing ill on others. We should be wishing, at the least, they stop harming people if not actually becoming good people. But Steve missed the point his Granny was trying to make. Wishing ill and enjoying bad things happing to people we deem have deserved it doesn't make the bad people good. It does make us worse people instead.
"Many that live deserve death, some of that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Don't be so quick to deal out death and judgement for even the very wise cannot see all ends."
I simply said upon hearing the news: "Pat Robertson, I hope it was excruciating. See you in Hell." Oh, the mighty pearl-clutching that did come forth. (Interestingly, most of it from the very few members of the "fuck your feelings" crowd that I still associate with.)
One of my favorite sayings for when a despicable person shuffles off their mortal coil: "Everyone makes the world a better place, some only do so once upon their passing."
I think the primary reason we do this is because we innately understand that these individuals might have family who love or loved them very much. And to listen to such statements such as wishing someone's demise can be either traumatizing or at the very least hurtful to the otherwise innocent person.
That's why I stopped celebrating deaths or wishing people dead. I can't hurt the person I want to hurt, but I can hurt their survivors when they're at their most vulnerable, which is a shitty way to be.
I agree with you. It's our understanding of the personhood of other people and the granting to them of our most basic want (that of staying alive) that keeps us from loudly wishing for the death of others. I also think that we ARE allowed to wish death on folks, and a lot of us do, but that doesn't mean that it is something to which we often give a voice.
I have no compunctions about wishing death on those who strive to remove others' freedoms to be themselves, and especially on those who desire to remove others from existence for simply having a different "lifestyle choice." Of course, wishing death to befall is them is, as you said, far different from acting towards said desire. Personally, when I was younger I would only wish that people would learn the errors of their way and gain some empathy. Now I wish that first, but failing that for them to die. I honestly just want their bad behaviors to stop inflicting harm on others.
I never understood why people can still be superstitious in this day and age. If fate and chance were so easily influenced, by saying the wrong thing in the wrong way, or breaking a mirror, or whatever... I can't imagine what a chaotic, fluctuating mess the world would be.
Anxiety disorders. I'm very superstitious, and I suffer for it. It never brings relaxation or pleasure or anything positive. I know it's irrational and nonsense. I also have severe anxiety and panic disorders, and that is why they have any traction at all. My endrochrine system will pump me full of "holy shit, you're gonna die" hormones while in my mind, I think, "C'mon. You're better than that." People, and pattern recognizing minds, are not always rational actors.
@@TheHopperUK Yeah, I guess... hard to argue with that. But, like, imagine how weird it would be if all eight billion people's moods and words could drastically affect the lives of everyone else?
@@AndrewD8Red I mean isn't that how people like Trump get put into power and drastically affected everyone else? The moods and words of a lot of people?
I am very sincere in not wishing death or harm to any human being. No matter how unlikely it may be, I wish people would be brought to justice or repent and change their ways, and death removes even that slight of a possibility. I feel like wishing a fellow human dead does more harm to me and my humanity than it does to them.
Exactly. I've seen firsthand what dwelling on that kind of negativity can do to a person. My former best friend from high school was the kind of person who never let go of a grudge and was still wishing harm on bullies he hadn't seen for over 20 years. It's not that I expected him to ever forgive them, but it's such a waste to let the people you hate live rent free in your brain.
I kind of get that. I don't want Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin to die. I want them to experience justice, and to live in the knowledge that _they failed._ Death is too good for them.
All well and good to hold as a principle, but take care that it does not become dogma. There are exceptions to damn near every rule, and it's truly not fair to a tyrant's victims to put more stock in their oppressor's life, than theirs. It's not that some people aren't worth the opportunity to atone, but that attempting to change them may take too much time. Time their victims don't have.
@@vikrantpulipati1451 Ron Desantis Ron Desantis, Ron Desantis Ron Desantis Ron Desantis Ron Desantis Ron Desantis Ron Desantis Ron Desantis Ron Desantis Ron Desantis
I remember a local union newspaper in my hometown ran the headline "Emperor Hirohito Dead! Joins Hitler, Mussolini in Hell!" At the time, I thought it was shocking, but many of my WWII veteran elders enjoyed it. It is a matter of knowing your audience, I guess.
Ever since my husband passed away, I simply can't. I remember the pain and I have a hard time really wishing or celebrating the death of an evil person, most of the time. I did break out the good booze when Robertson kicked, however.
I was about to get mad at you when I saw the title... And then you taught me that my trigger has a religious origin. Thank you, Steve. Today I learned more about myself thanks to this video 💜
There's a certain psychopathic megalomaniac who ordered his corrupt and unprepared army to invade his neighbor -- I've got some wishes about him that I wouldn't necessarily say out loud.
I'm just imagining the spontaneous street parties that will happen when Dolt 45 kicks the bucket. Then, after he's in the ground, the line-up to piss on his grave.
There are some really terrible people with financial or political power that they can never be forced to give up and will probably hold on to until their dying breath. I really wish those people didn't have power.
I normally restrain my honesty in the presence of my family. I had recently woken up and was still groggy when I told my dad that Rush Limbaugh's death was a good thing for the world. He was horrified
Upon beginning an investigation into the mysterious deaths of right-wing pundits, L suspects the use of some kind of Death Note. His first order? “Let’s go talk to that Steve Shives guy.”
Absolutely agree with the sentiment from 12:05 on. But I think the idea is that, if we're going to pretend our wishes can magically change reality, then we might as well wish a bad person to be good, rather than dead.
Some Christians make absolutely no pretense that they enjoy the thought of the "wicked" burning forever in Hell. When I was a kid, I was taught in Sunday School that one of the perks of going to Heaven was that you would get to look down and see the "wicked" people burning in Hell -- forever.
When Pat Robertson died, I said, 'good. Now that air he was breathing, and the food he was eating, can go to better use.' I said something similar when David Koch died too. These were terrible people who actively worked to make things worse for everyone else to enrich themselves.
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement." Gandalf Greyhame
Personally I think the “I’ve never wished death on anyone” serves as an apotropaic. We’re all familiar with such concepts as the “evil eye”, and in some beliefs wishing death on a person can cause their death. I think the phrase serves as an apotropaic to protect against the spiritual danger wishing death on someone may incur.
i remember back when Margaret Thatcher died and most of the talking heads on TV were talking about how globally and historically important she was i also remember seeing a lot of fb memes with the munchkins singing "Good good the witch is dead." (i was with the munchkins on that one)
Hell, people were crowded in the streets of London singing "Ding Dong the Witch Is Dead"! There were a lot of people happy that Thatcher had left the living, and I was definitely among them. On a related note, I had an extra big celebration the year that her buddy Ronald Reagan died on my birthday. Good times.
As an atheist, I don't believe in hell. This has been a great sadness to me, because we have a lot of evil men who greatly deserve it, and who have died peacefully in their sleep, having never experienced even a moment of comeuppance for the evil they have done. Hell isn't real, but I understand the appeal.
In one of his essays, George Orwell wrote a critical examination of Dicken's work where he pointed out the horrible ilogic in the notion of a rich man's truly performing selfless acts of charity by saying that no one who would give all his money away would have made it in the first place. Love your videos. All of them are entertaining.
I recently got into a argument on another channel. The video was about the Supreme Court and their recent horrible decisions. I simply stated that we should keep voting Democrat because at least two seats should open up in the next ten yrs. This person accused me of wishing death and intimated I hated Black conservatives. I wrote back that I was actually referring to Thomas and Alito retiring but hey if the reaper wants to do is a favor. Fine. Its hard for me to lose sleep over someone dying that costs thousands of lives when they lived.
I think there's a certain amount of "sinking yourself to their level" by wishing or celebrating the death of an awful person. Acknowledging the positives of that person being gone seems like a decent middle ground
I don't wish anybody dead (being an infidel, I see it as pointless). But often learn of some notable's demise and think to myself "And not a moment too soon". (I owe that quip to P.G. Wodehouse, I think.)
I remember walking through the woods with a buddy of mine. He says, "Man, I wish it was legal to kill assholes." "You know, someone out there thinks that YOU are an asshole." "Oh. Yeah.... I hadn't thought of that."
For my 2 cents, it's not for their sake, it's for yours. Wishing for someone's death incites the idea of taking steps toward that outcome. Not to mention that it raises the question of who, exactly, deserves that solution.
Wishing your enemies to death was the major plot element of the classic sci-fi movie Forbidden Planet. Neither the Krell or Morbius consciously wished for the deaths of individuals who pissed them off, but the Krell miracle machine gave their subconscious ID all the power required to do exactly that. And we know what happened to the Krell. I imagine the human race wouldn't last much more than a day with that kind of power.
Steve, I have to say: you're really starting to hit home with some of the more philosophical stuff you're posting, and I love it. Your takes on Trek are gold. Even where our opinions differ, I still enjoy hearing yours. Your humor is biting and clever. Thank you.
Bit of advice to the sort of people who proudly announce they’d never wish anyone dead and/or celebrate when someone dies: Firstly, you don’t come across as compassionate, you come across as self righteous and condescending. Secondly, you likely have had the good fortune to not meet some of the horrible people the rest of us have met.
I should introduce you to some of the bullies I had in school. One of them was a resident of one of my state's institutions of corrections (and may still be.) Yeah, I'd say in general I've had it easier than most people, but growing up in the US makes that an easy observation to make compared to most of the rest of the world. But to say that I haven't met someone who hadn't given me a reason to wish ill on them would be flat out wrong. I've "enjoyed" being hit, terrorized, and even had my head smashed into a brick wall in gym class. (I have little fun memories of Jacksonville, AR outside of those with my family and the two friends I had in seventh grade.) But I don't see any point wishing harm and relishing in the joy of bad luck of others, even if they're people like Pat Robertson and Donald Trump. It's not going to make them any better of people, but it will make me a worse person for it. The only way I can make the world a better place is making myself a better person and hope other take note and follow my example. I don't think that makes me self-righteous or condescending. I'm certainly not going to chide you if you're not able to do that, as I have my fair share of flaws I need to work on. I've just found it takes a lot more energy to hate someone that you can't get anything out of. There's a Buddhist story about two monks traveling together. They come to this stream, and on their side is a woman who wants to cross without getting her clothing wet. Now, Buddhist monks are not allowed to touch people of the opposite sexes, but one of them decides to help the woman out by carrying her over the stream. They cross the stream and the one monk sets the woman down before the pair proceeds to continue their journey. After a while, the monk who didn't carry the woman breaks the silence to ask, "Why did you do that? You know we're not supposed to touch her." His companion's reply was, "Oh, her? I set he down a while back. I'm surprised you're still carrying her around." Hate's a lot like that. As long as you're carrying it, you're not doing anything useful or beneficial to you. And it's certainly not changing the world or the situation you don't like.
Publicly wishing death on somebody only works as an admission of frustration- a loss of composure. It demonstrates that somebody has emotional power over you that is unlikely to be productive in any appreciable way other than making yourself feel better. Even in secular circles, IMO, it's better kept to yourself. Now, celebrating someone's death? That's not nearly as bad. If the world is better in their absence, I really can't harsh someone for feeling joy because the world just got a little better. Your joy likely isn't in the details of the death itself, but the overwhelming possibilities of a future without that individual. A life free of the aforementioned emotional power they held over you and others. It frees up emotional bandwidth to dedicate to more positive things! :)
To me it's less about any kind of taboo or superstition. I just find there are better things to do with my time than indulge in negativity towards others. It's not that I've never wished harm on others impulsively, but those are thoughts I choose not to dwell on. I let the moment pass and move on with my life, and its sort of the same case for the already dead. Hearing about the death of some awful person might give me a brief pause to smile, but now that they are gone and have no more ability to be awful, I see no more reason to continue wasting brain space on them.
I dont know if this was an actual Steve Shives rant, or a shaggy dog story just to arrive at the punchline "To absent fiends" (parody of the old toast). Either way, I found it entertaining. Well done sir.
My grandfather used to say "People are born knowing right from wrong." It's something I believe, but I've put my own twist on it. "People are capable of changing... IF they want to."
I'm extremely superstitious about wishing ill on anyone, even objectively vile horrible people. What I do instead is wish them the type of life they so richly deserve & that they reap all they sow ten thousandfold. Is it a curse? Is it a blessing? Depends on the type of person you are & what you do to others.
This is hypocritical, as there are worse fates than death. To wish something WORSE than death on a person is somehow less awful than wishing they simply, mercifully, died?
That's a cop-out. The folks wishing Kissinger would spontaneously implode are hoping for the same justice you are. You've just abstracted it up a notch. "I wish X were dead, because they're a monster" is morally equivalent to "I hope X monster gets what they deserve." You're still implying that you want them to suffer. The only difference that they're explicit in calling for death, and you're all, "Won't rid me of this turbulent priest?" If you were truly benevolent, you'd wish them a good life despite their deeds.
It's true for more than just the worst among us. We are resistant to personal change, even when it's sorely needed. A person has to want to change, and then put in the work.
When my mother passed the pastor asked us for a happy time to remember. Four of us couldn’t think of one, rolling bushes and wind blowing! He passed over that question! Things are so different now! But didn’t wish her dead, but when she was……
not sure why I'm telling you this, may be you have dealt with your shame and I haven't . but i loved my father above all else until my wife and children. i honestly could not tell you why .may be my mother undying faith in the words he said rather paying attention to his actions had Brian washed me . i did not speak to him the last 7 years of his life as i could no longer tolerate him . i asked mam a few weeks ago if she could bring him back as the man he was would she . and she said no ,as did i . but as the realization hit her and i could see her eyes glaze i pointed out to her that only a monster such as him could turn good pepole like us into pepole that did not want him to die but feel free from him now he is dead . a lie to comfort a good woman feeling shame ,we will never be free of him . me writing this proves it . but a strive to be better ,that is the one thing he has given me of value .
Excellent post, Steve…. I was thinking your earlier point about the danger and futility of people’s wishes coming true would make an excellent intro for a “Retro Review” of the classic sci-fi movie “Forbidden Planet”!
In a world where there are things that make death look like the soft option, where they happen countless times a day, feeling bad about merely wishing someone would die is ridiculous. It's just an admission that you think the world would be a better place if that person weren't in it. In which case you're past caring about the impact on their nearest and dearest, or think it's an acceptable consequence. We're all going to die. What matters is how we go, and results of our passing.
Counterpoint: the way the entire internet reacted to the Titan submersible incident. If I have learned anything from TH-cam it’s that the whole event was _hilarious_.
I don't think I have it in me to wish death or really any kind of misfortune on a person. I'm not saying this is a virtue of mine, just that it's a quality I possess. If a person is harming other person, then I can wish that person to be prevented from doing that harm, and I can accept what misfortune needs to be inflicted on that person in order to accomplish that goal as a necessity, but I don't think I have it in me to want that misfortune to happen.
My mom said simply "if I didn't like someone when they were alive, their being dead doesn't elevate their personal loveable status with me. Didn't like them when they were breathing, I don't like them now that they're not". She was born in 1914. Not worried about others opinions of her, I agree with her 1000 percent.😜
Steve, I'm _waaaaay_ ahead of ya when it comes to normalizing both speaking ill of the dead and wishing death on those who've spent their lives in service of perpetuating harm in various ways upon others. 😌😏 I attended a TH-cam livestream to celebrate Limbaugh's passing and I thanked God for forcing Satan to break ground on a new residential wing in hell so Pat Robertson could finally move on and move in. 😂
in agreement to this sentiment I raise a glass to all those who have made the world a better place by leaving it, and a hope that they will be met with good company by their peers sooner than later.
I think there’s absolutely nothing wrong with believing that nobody is truly without the capacity for change, but I’m so glad that the sentiment seems to be coming together that maybe, unless that change happens, the shitty things that shitty people do are still shitty, and should be seen as shitty. Well put, to absent fiends 🍻
Jennette McCurdy broke some ice on this with her memoir “I’m Glad My Mom Died”
Man i feel so bad for her
It was this book made me respect her. Before, I was not paying atention to her.
It's in my TBR pile, just not sure I'm ready for the emotional rollercoaster yet
Chocolate rain?
I’m here for the Tay Zonday/Steve Shives collab.
Wish anyone dead and your wish will always come true. Maybe not immediately or in an amount of time desired, but eventually... every time.
I have wished for someone to die. I have even wished for someone to be assassinated, But I leave their identity to your imagination.
You might not life to it tough.
@@davidmorse2310 "Be careful what you wish for." If assassinated they might become a martyr.
Gilad...I'll take that chance
Well… everyone dies, so…. 🤷♂️
I have no problem wishing death on people that go out of their way to make life miserable for people that are just trying to survive.
Exactly!
It's okay, you can say Mitch McConnell
@@ShinGallonI'll bet my bottom dollar on Matt Walsh
@igakoga2481We should be like "Let's make sure people don't end up like this again." when a terrible person dies.
Same here.
I can confirm it takes a long time to improve as a person. I was raised on Pat Robertson's 700 Club and Rush Limbaugh. After I realized how wrong they were, I could intellectually move away, but the years of indoctrination were still there and were still running. It took ten years of self-improvement to root it out.
I still like Pat Robertson emotionally, even though I morally and intellectually hate him.
He raised me, my mom suffered severe PPD and I was raising my three siblings under five while recently disabled. I'd take notes on being happy and a good mother from him and it helped me a lot. He was the grandfather I never had and his advice kept me sane and stable in the nightmare little me found myself in back then.
@@availanilaI’m so very sorry you went through that and I hope you’ve been able to find healing!! ❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹
Good on you for becoming a better person. I myself was forced to listen to Limbaugh and G. Gordon Liddy as a child by my father. Thank god I grew out of that shit and into a decent human being.
Oh my im glad your normal now
I still struggle with old religious dogma. It doesn't help that I have a crazy freezing fear of hell, as outlined in christian books. Me stepping away is me being brave. Otherwise I would be a coward for staying in the religious world that I'm not fully committed to.
I've never wished anyone to death, but it hasn't stopped me from trying.
Imagine supporting the death penalty and then having the audacity to claim you wouldn't wish anyone dead
If wishing for terrible people to die actually worked, most of the terrible people wouldn't get up to 1/10th of the stuff that made them remembered as terrible to begin with.
If people could wish people dead, we'd all be dead. I saw a near truck on truck accident yesterday that would have had both drivers wishing the other dead.
@@jackielinde7568 Then we'd have 2 unmanned trucks barrelling down the highway killing gods know how many others before the whole shebang comes to a crashing halt... and more people start wishing for deaths. I agree with Steve: if wishes killed, the human race would survive about 10 minutes.
Kissinger made it to 100. I gotta believe a few people wished it was sooner.
" They say you shouldn't say nothin' about the dead unless it's good. He's dead. Good! " - Moms Mabley
Thank you, she was the originator of the quote, but Bette Davis.
@@NeilBlumengarten Go on.
Also, in line with my life ethos that “Everything Has A TNG Reference”- that pacifist in “The Survivors” wished a species dead and it just happened.
That's right! MacGyver's grandfather, who also once flew an airplane back in time, committed one of the most sweeping acts of genocide ever referenced in a Star Trek show. He felt bad about it, though.
@@SteveShives He also drove Troi near to the point of insanity by filling her head with annoying music.
@@SteveShivesin fairness to Picard, that guy is basically impossible to punish without his own cooperation. It’s best not to antagonize such a being.
@@SteveShives What's really stinky is he wasn't sad enough to wish them back into existence- what kind of weenie omnipotent being posing as a mortal was he?
@@CanobyIt is always easier to destroy than to create.
I have often said that such people fall into my Batman rules. Not gonna kill em, but not gonna save em even if I could.
“In the air at night”
My favorite phrase is: I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. I would call 911 for them but I wouldn't put them out. I also like to say to that the world would be a better place if they weren't in it anymore, which is not exactly a wish. It comes very close to being one without actually being one.
"...Let them die!!"
@@lkeke35 "Rest in piss" is another good one.
Yep, that's the way I am with Trump supporters. I wouldn't lift a finger to help them no matter what happened. I wouldn't be able to be a doctor. If they were starving I would eat pizza in front of them while laughing. If they were on fire and I had a bottle of water, I would drink the water and walk away. I wouldn't even piss on them.
I'm reminded of the great Christopher Hitchens upon news of the death of Falwell. "If you had given him an enema, you could have buried him in a matchbox".
It's a good thing he was already dead, that burn was lethal.🔥
So brutal.
Oh! Cause they were so full of 💩… took me a minute 🤪😂😂
I always said that you can always say something positive when someone dies.
Either the positive things that they did in their life or that their death is a positive thing.
They say you should only say a good thing when someone dies.
Pat Robertson is dead.
"A good thing."
I generally don't explicitly wish people dead but I do wish a lot of people would stop. In practice though those two things are very often one and the same.
I wish certain peoples’ hearts would stop…
@@DarylTUBA I generally wish for certain people's heart to "start", if you know what I mean, but if it stopping makes the harm they do stop as well, that's good enough
I tend to see a life like Pat Robertson’s as a tragedy. He could have been so much better, he could have been so much more. Instead he squandered his years on hate.
There's a Midrash (a religious story of Jewish nature) that tells of a rabbi who comes home to find all three of his boys dead and laid out. It's clear that they were murdered by anti-Semitic thugs. In his grief, as he's crying over the bodies of his children, he's screaming out to God to do away with those sinners who'd had violated the most basic of tenets, "You shall not kill". He looks up at his wife and asks her, "Why does God not answer me?" To which, his wife replies, "Maybe you're not asking the right thing of him." He then wishes for sin to be removed, and his wish is granted.
Obviously this is a story that didn't happen. But we shouldn't be wishing ill on others. We should be wishing, at the least, they stop harming people if not actually becoming good people. But Steve missed the point his Granny was trying to make. Wishing ill and enjoying bad things happing to people we deem have deserved it doesn't make the bad people good. It does make us worse people instead.
@@kinocrone7275 Fair enough, my friend. Fair enough.
"Many that live deserve death, some of that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Don't be so quick to deal out death and judgement for even the very wise cannot see all ends."
I simply said upon hearing the news: "Pat Robertson, I hope it was excruciating. See you in Hell." Oh, the mighty pearl-clutching that did come forth. (Interestingly, most of it from the very few members of the "fuck your feelings" crowd that I still associate with.)
Because it's always "fuck YOUR feelings". My feelings are still important.
Rest in piss Pat Roberson
I wasn't invited to his funeral, but liked and shared anyway, to show my approval.
I didn't know he was dead.
@@eyezonly8593 Oh, he is. Pat Robertson is late.
Let's not forget about Rush Limbaugh.
@@jbdxiii Rush Limbaugh, Jesse Helms, Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps, and Jerry Falwell can all rot in Hell.
I have never wished anyone dead, but there are people I believe humanity would be better off without.
So true. I feel this way !
I hope we can have this conversation about Putin and Trump soon.
Well, he did describe Trump when talking about Scrooge - except for the character change :) Trump is proof Scrooge is pure fiction
Knock
Knock
Not quite but still
One of my favorite sayings for when a despicable person shuffles off their mortal coil:
"Everyone makes the world a better place, some only do so once upon their passing."
I think the primary reason we do this is because we innately understand that these individuals might have family who love or loved them very much. And to listen to such statements such as wishing someone's demise can be either traumatizing or at the very least hurtful to the otherwise innocent person.
That's why I stopped celebrating deaths or wishing people dead. I can't hurt the person I want to hurt, but I can hurt their survivors when they're at their most vulnerable, which is a shitty way to be.
I agree with you. It's our understanding of the personhood of other people and the granting to them of our most basic want (that of staying alive) that keeps us from loudly wishing for the death of others. I also think that we ARE allowed to wish death on folks, and a lot of us do, but that doesn't mean that it is something to which we often give a voice.
Couldn't have said it better.
I have no compunctions about wishing death on those who strive to remove others' freedoms to be themselves, and especially on those who desire to remove others from existence for simply having a different "lifestyle choice." Of course, wishing death to befall is them is, as you said, far different from acting towards said desire.
Personally, when I was younger I would only wish that people would learn the errors of their way and gain some empathy. Now I wish that first, but failing that for them to die. I honestly just want their bad behaviors to stop inflicting harm on others.
I never understood why people can still be superstitious in this day and age. If fate and chance were so easily influenced, by saying the wrong thing in the wrong way, or breaking a mirror, or whatever... I can't imagine what a chaotic, fluctuating mess the world would be.
The world *is* a chaotic, fluctuating mess. People just want a sense of control.
Anxiety disorders. I'm very superstitious, and I suffer for it. It never brings relaxation or pleasure or anything positive. I know it's irrational and nonsense. I also have severe anxiety and panic disorders, and that is why they have any traction at all. My endrochrine system will pump me full of "holy shit, you're gonna die" hormones while in my mind, I think, "C'mon. You're better than that." People, and pattern recognizing minds, are not always rational actors.
@@cassiedevereaux-smith3890
My comment feels really judgmental and ignorant now ...
Sorry.
@@TheHopperUK
Yeah, I guess... hard to argue with that.
But, like, imagine how weird it would be if all eight billion people's moods and words could drastically affect the lives of everyone else?
@@AndrewD8Red I mean isn't that how people like Trump get put into power and drastically affected everyone else? The moods and words of a lot of people?
Wizard of Oz had a whole song about this. I think it did quite well in the charts the weeks after Mrs Thatcher died.
If wishes were true, The Enterprise would be in battle with a Death Star at this very moment.
I am very sincere in not wishing death or harm to any human being. No matter how unlikely it may be, I wish people would be brought to justice or repent and change their ways, and death removes even that slight of a possibility. I feel like wishing a fellow human dead does more harm to me and my humanity than it does to them.
I agree one hundred percent with that last sentence.
Exactly. I've seen firsthand what dwelling on that kind of negativity can do to a person. My former best friend from high school was the kind of person who never let go of a grudge and was still wishing harm on bullies he hadn't seen for over 20 years.
It's not that I expected him to ever forgive them, but it's such a waste to let the people you hate live rent free in your brain.
I kind of get that. I don't want Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin to die. I want them to experience justice, and to live in the knowledge that _they failed._ Death is too good for them.
All well and good to hold as a principle, but take care that it does not become dogma. There are exceptions to damn near every rule, and it's truly not fair to a tyrant's victims to put more stock in their oppressor's life, than theirs. It's not that some people aren't worth the opportunity to atone, but that attempting to change them may take too much time. Time their victims don't have.
@@SiansoneaYou have a good point there.
But, if I had a Deathnote...
Henry Kissinger Henry Kissinger Henry Kissinger Henry Kissinger Henry Kissinger Henry Kissinger Henry Kissinger Henry Kissinger Henry Kissinger
@@vikrantpulipati1451 Ron Desantis Ron Desantis, Ron Desantis Ron Desantis Ron Desantis Ron Desantis Ron Desantis Ron Desantis Ron Desantis Ron Desantis Ron Desantis
I have a death note. A merch one. I’ve taken it to conventions and asked people to write the name of some one or sign it. Most people just signed it.
Kim Jong-Un dies in 1 second today. That's how I will write it.
"Absent fiends" - Gold.
I remember a local union newspaper in my hometown ran the headline "Emperor Hirohito Dead! Joins Hitler, Mussolini in Hell!" At the time, I thought it was shocking, but many of my WWII veteran elders enjoyed it. It is a matter of knowing your audience, I guess.
Ever since my husband passed away, I simply can't. I remember the pain and I have a hard time really wishing or celebrating the death of an evil person, most of the time. I did break out the good booze when Robertson kicked, however.
I was about to get mad at you when I saw the title... And then you taught me that my trigger has a religious origin. Thank you, Steve. Today I learned more about myself thanks to this video 💜
Henry Kissinger. No tears will be shed here.
"Why is it so bad to be glad that a bad person is dead." I know some of it is to be owed to "Don't speak ill of the dead"
"The rain, it raineth on the just
and also on the unjust fella.
But mostly on the just, because
The unjust stole the just's umbrella."
There's a certain psychopathic megalomaniac who ordered his corrupt and unprepared army to invade his neighbor -- I've got some wishes about him that I wouldn't necessarily say out loud.
I've said mine out loud, but I'm also nobody of any importance and nowhere near Russia, and thus at little risk of falling out a window any time soon.
@@neuralmute But if you're offered a cup of tea that smells like polonium or dioxin, DON'T DRINK IT. LOL
I'm just imagining the spontaneous street parties that will happen when Dolt 45 kicks the bucket. Then, after he's in the ground, the line-up to piss on his grave.
That patch of earth will never be dry
He'll probably bounce a check for someone to kick it for him.😂😂
@@Bil-k8cright next to Ivana. 😂😂
Good for you Steve. Truth is better than lies.
There are some really terrible people with financial or political power that they can never be forced to give up and will probably hold on to until their dying breath.
I really wish those people didn't have power.
I love this video. Agree 100%.
I cannot say I’m at all happy that Henry Kissinger & Dick Cheney are still alive. They are apparently going to live forever.
I can't believe you left this comment only a day ago, November 29, 2023. Unreal.
Spooky co-incidence.
I can't tell you haw many times I've been deeply saddened to hear that Rupert Murdoch is still alive.
I normally restrain my honesty in the presence of my family. I had recently woken up and was still groggy when I told my dad that Rush Limbaugh's death was a good thing for the world.
He was horrified
Upon beginning an investigation into the mysterious deaths of right-wing pundits, L suspects the use of some kind of Death Note. His first order? “Let’s go talk to that Steve Shives guy.”
I can think of a couple politicians who can snuff it any day now and the States would be better for it. For clarity, Steve's politics align with mine.
Absolutely agree with the sentiment from 12:05 on. But I think the idea is that, if we're going to pretend our wishes can magically change reality, then we might as well wish a bad person to be good, rather than dead.
That only works until we land on FORBIDDEN PLANET. Once we do that our unconscious mind will kill us all.
Some Christians make absolutely no pretense that they enjoy the thought of the "wicked" burning forever in Hell. When I was a kid, I was taught in Sunday School that one of the perks of going to Heaven was that you would get to look down and see the "wicked" people burning in Hell -- forever.
When Pat Robertson died, I said, 'good. Now that air he was breathing, and the food he was eating, can go to better use.' I said something similar when David Koch died too. These were terrible people who actively worked to make things worse for everyone else to enrich themselves.
Its also the same wen people say "Don't speak ill of the dead" well you know what, don't be an asshole when you're alive
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement." Gandalf Greyhame
Personally I think the “I’ve never wished death on anyone” serves as an apotropaic. We’re all familiar with such concepts as the “evil eye”, and in some beliefs wishing death on a person can cause their death. I think the phrase serves as an apotropaic to protect against the spiritual danger wishing death on someone may incur.
Wishing.... I had a Tantalus Field.
i remember back when Margaret Thatcher died and most of the talking heads on TV were talking about how globally and historically important she was
i also remember seeing a lot of fb memes with the munchkins singing "Good good the witch is dead."
(i was with the munchkins on that one)
Hell, people were crowded in the streets of London singing "Ding Dong the Witch Is Dead"! There were a lot of people happy that Thatcher had left the living, and I was definitely among them.
On a related note, I had an extra big celebration the year that her buddy Ronald Reagan died on my birthday. Good times.
Elvis Costello's "Tramp the dirt down" went on the playlist for a while.
As an atheist, I don't believe in hell. This has been a great sadness to me, because we have a lot of evil men who greatly deserve it, and who have died peacefully in their sleep, having never experienced even a moment of comeuppance for the evil they have done.
Hell isn't real, but I understand the appeal.
In one of his essays, George Orwell wrote a critical examination of Dicken's work where he pointed out the horrible ilogic in the notion of a rich man's truly performing selfless acts of charity by saying that no one who would give all his money away would have made it in the first place.
Love your videos. All of them are entertaining.
This is a conversation that needs to be continued.
I didn't know phyllis schlafly had died. I needed something to smile about today, thanks!
That outro line. 👏👏
I recently got into a argument on another channel. The video was about the Supreme Court and their recent horrible decisions. I simply stated that we should keep voting Democrat because at least two seats should open up in the next ten yrs. This person accused me of wishing death and intimated I hated Black conservatives. I wrote back that I was actually referring to Thomas and Alito retiring but hey if the reaper wants to do is a favor. Fine. Its hard for me to lose sleep over someone dying that costs thousands of lives when they lived.
Honestly, when I heard that Pat Robertson was dead, my first though was "what took him so long?" Same with Rush Limbog.
I think there's a certain amount of "sinking yourself to their level" by wishing or celebrating the death of an awful person. Acknowledging the positives of that person being gone seems like a decent middle ground
This video is even better now that Henry Kissinger finally kicked it
I don't wish anybody dead (being an infidel, I see it as pointless). But often learn of some notable's demise and think to myself "And not a moment too soon". (I owe that quip to P.G. Wodehouse, I think.)
I came across this guy just a couple days ago, absolutely love him!!!!
I remember walking through the woods with a buddy of mine. He says, "Man, I wish it was legal to kill assholes." "You know, someone out there thinks that YOU are an asshole." "Oh. Yeah.... I hadn't thought of that."
For my 2 cents, it's not for their sake, it's for yours.
Wishing for someone's death incites the idea of taking steps toward that outcome.
Not to mention that it raises the question of who, exactly, deserves that solution.
Anytime people say "I don't wish anyone dead" I'm always like, the more for me 😊.
😂
Wishing your enemies to death was the major plot element of the classic sci-fi movie Forbidden Planet. Neither the Krell or Morbius consciously wished for the deaths of individuals who pissed them off, but the Krell miracle machine gave their subconscious ID all the power required to do exactly that. And we know what happened to the Krell. I imagine the human race wouldn't last much more than a day with that kind of power.
Steve, I have to say: you're really starting to hit home with some of the more philosophical stuff you're posting, and I love it.
Your takes on Trek are gold. Even where our opinions differ, I still enjoy hearing yours.
Your humor is biting and clever.
Thank you.
Bit of advice to the sort of people who proudly announce they’d never wish anyone dead and/or celebrate when someone dies:
Firstly, you don’t come across as compassionate, you come across as self righteous and condescending.
Secondly, you likely have had the good fortune to not meet some of the horrible people the rest of us have met.
I should introduce you to some of the bullies I had in school. One of them was a resident of one of my state's institutions of corrections (and may still be.) Yeah, I'd say in general I've had it easier than most people, but growing up in the US makes that an easy observation to make compared to most of the rest of the world. But to say that I haven't met someone who hadn't given me a reason to wish ill on them would be flat out wrong. I've "enjoyed" being hit, terrorized, and even had my head smashed into a brick wall in gym class. (I have little fun memories of Jacksonville, AR outside of those with my family and the two friends I had in seventh grade.)
But I don't see any point wishing harm and relishing in the joy of bad luck of others, even if they're people like Pat Robertson and Donald Trump. It's not going to make them any better of people, but it will make me a worse person for it. The only way I can make the world a better place is making myself a better person and hope other take note and follow my example. I don't think that makes me self-righteous or condescending. I'm certainly not going to chide you if you're not able to do that, as I have my fair share of flaws I need to work on. I've just found it takes a lot more energy to hate someone that you can't get anything out of.
There's a Buddhist story about two monks traveling together. They come to this stream, and on their side is a woman who wants to cross without getting her clothing wet. Now, Buddhist monks are not allowed to touch people of the opposite sexes, but one of them decides to help the woman out by carrying her over the stream. They cross the stream and the one monk sets the woman down before the pair proceeds to continue their journey. After a while, the monk who didn't carry the woman breaks the silence to ask, "Why did you do that? You know we're not supposed to touch her." His companion's reply was, "Oh, her? I set he down a while back. I'm surprised you're still carrying her around." Hate's a lot like that. As long as you're carrying it, you're not doing anything useful or beneficial to you. And it's certainly not changing the world or the situation you don't like.
Publicly wishing death on somebody only works as an admission of frustration- a loss of composure. It demonstrates that somebody has emotional power over you that is unlikely to be productive in any appreciable way other than making yourself feel better. Even in secular circles, IMO, it's better kept to yourself.
Now, celebrating someone's death? That's not nearly as bad. If the world is better in their absence, I really can't harsh someone for feeling joy because the world just got a little better. Your joy likely isn't in the details of the death itself, but the overwhelming possibilities of a future without that individual. A life free of the aforementioned emotional power they held over you and others. It frees up emotional bandwidth to dedicate to more positive things! :)
great answer, best answer here, have a like
To me it's less about any kind of taboo or superstition. I just find there are better things to do with my time than indulge in negativity towards others. It's not that I've never wished harm on others impulsively, but those are thoughts I choose not to dwell on. I let the moment pass and move on with my life, and its sort of the same case for the already dead. Hearing about the death of some awful person might give me a brief pause to smile, but now that they are gone and have no more ability to be awful, I see no more reason to continue wasting brain space on them.
That title is crazy
I dont know if this was an actual Steve Shives rant, or a shaggy dog story just to arrive at the punchline "To absent fiends" (parody of the old toast). Either way, I found it entertaining. Well done sir.
My grandfather used to say "People are born knowing right from wrong." It's something I believe, but I've put my own twist on it. "People are capable of changing... IF they want to."
Sociopaths aren't. That's precisely what's wrong with them.
I disagree, because that puts evil people in an easy spot "just born that way". No they decide to, or were raised that way.
I'm extremely superstitious about wishing ill on anyone, even objectively vile horrible people. What I do instead is wish them the type of life they so richly deserve & that they reap all they sow ten thousandfold.
Is it a curse? Is it a blessing?
Depends on the type of person you are & what you do to others.
This, I can definitely work with. Whatever you sow, that you will reap.
I do like that apporach.
This is hypocritical, as there are worse fates than death. To wish something WORSE than death on a person is somehow less awful than wishing they simply, mercifully, died?
That's a cop-out. The folks wishing Kissinger would spontaneously implode are hoping for the same justice you are. You've just abstracted it up a notch. "I wish X were dead, because they're a monster" is morally equivalent to "I hope X monster gets what they deserve." You're still implying that you want them to suffer. The only difference that they're explicit in calling for death, and you're all, "Won't rid me of this turbulent priest?"
If you were truly benevolent, you'd wish them a good life despite their deeds.
It's true for more than just the worst among us. We are resistant to personal change, even when it's sorely needed. A person has to want to change, and then put in the work.
I never ever comment on you tube. Or anything for that matter. But you're Brilliant Brother
A humble toast to absent fiends.
"To absent fiends. May they *stay* that way."
--- J. L. Howlett.
(Probably.)
Reminds me of the saying "Wish in one hand, shit in the other. See which one gets filled first."
Not Jeff here. I did wish someone would die, and it happened! It took 13 years, but it happened. I savor the power.
Why did it take so long for this guy’s channel to be suggested to me? Holy sh** I love him!
When my mother passed the pastor asked us for a happy time to remember. Four of us couldn’t think of one, rolling bushes and wind blowing! He passed over that question! Things are so different now! But didn’t wish her dead, but when she was……
not sure why I'm telling you this, may be you have dealt with your shame and I haven't .
but i loved my father above all else until my wife and children. i honestly could not tell you why .may be my mother undying faith in the words he said rather paying attention to his actions had Brian washed me .
i did not speak to him the last 7 years of his life as i could no longer tolerate him .
i asked mam a few weeks ago if she could bring him back as the man he was would she . and she said no ,as did i .
but as the realization hit her and i could see her eyes glaze i pointed out to her that only a monster such as him could turn good pepole like us into pepole that did not want him to die but feel free from him now he is dead .
a lie to comfort a good woman feeling shame ,we will never be free of him .
me writing this proves it .
but a strive to be better ,that is the one thing he has given me of value .
Not exactly wishing them dead, but I've been known to ask why some individual can't just go ahead and die.
"Doesn't (X) have something better to do? Like drop dead?"
Excellent post, Steve…. I was thinking your earlier point about the danger and futility of people’s wishes coming true would make an excellent intro for a “Retro Review” of the classic sci-fi movie “Forbidden Planet”!
The idea that speaking a wish has power in itself comes from religions. I love enlightened takes that transcend that old idea!
TH-cam recommended this video in the category of “film criticism”, and boy was I caught off guard.
In a world where there are things that make death look like the soft option, where they happen countless times a day, feeling bad about merely wishing someone would die is ridiculous. It's just an admission that you think the world would be a better place if that person weren't in it. In which case you're past caring about the impact on their nearest and dearest, or think it's an acceptable consequence. We're all going to die. What matters is how we go, and results of our passing.
Counterpoint: the way the entire internet reacted to the Titan submersible incident. If I have learned anything from TH-cam it’s that the whole event was _hilarious_.
"Which I suspect a great many of them do." I am a former missionary and I can confirm that there are a great many who do.
I don't think I have it in me to wish death or really any kind of misfortune on a person. I'm not saying this is a virtue of mine, just that it's a quality I possess.
If a person is harming other person, then I can wish that person to be prevented from doing that harm, and I can accept what misfortune needs to be inflicted on that person in order to accomplish that goal as a necessity, but I don't think I have it in me to want that misfortune to happen.
Thank you for this. Could not agree more.
My mom said simply "if I didn't like someone when they were alive, their being dead doesn't elevate their personal loveable status with me. Didn't like them when they were breathing, I don't like them now that they're not". She was born in 1914. Not worried about others opinions of her, I agree with her 1000 percent.😜
The only thing that keeps me from NOT using that preface is that social media will ban me, and I rely on it for gigs.
Steve, I'm _waaaaay_ ahead of ya when it comes to normalizing both speaking ill of the dead and wishing death on those who've spent their lives in service of perpetuating harm in various ways upon others. 😌😏
I attended a TH-cam livestream to celebrate Limbaugh's passing and I thanked God for forcing Satan to break ground on a new residential wing in hell so Pat Robertson could finally move on and move in. 😂
This is what the entire manga Death Note was all about.
"Humanity would cease to exist in about 10 minutes."
Like the Krell.
“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.”
in agreement to this sentiment I raise a glass to all those who have made the world a better place by leaving it, and a hope that they will be met with good company by their peers sooner than later.
I think there’s absolutely nothing wrong with believing that nobody is truly without the capacity for change, but I’m so glad that the sentiment seems to be coming together that maybe, unless that change happens, the shitty things that shitty people do are still shitty, and should be seen as shitty. Well put, to absent fiends 🍻
Well, nobody, except the dead.
Agreed. I used to say that if I could plan a plane crash, Pay Robertson & Jerry Falwell would be on the passenger list.
To absent fiends. 🥃