Something that immediately struck me was how energetic Retold's Arkantos sounds. Arkantos in the original campaign was an old campaigner who thought he'd seen everything and then got thrust into events of a scale that he couldn't have prepared for (hence making those events that much more striking). This Arkantos sounds from the beginning like the far younger man that he used to be, brave and adventurous and without the mundanity of the world he created weighing him down, which sadly makes for a far flatter character.
The voices in the AoE2:DE campaigns have a similar issue. The original voices often had very questionable accents, but they had a lot of character and were fun to listen to, where the new (admittedly more authentic) voices often just sound bored. I guess this stuff is hard to get right, but it's still disappointing.
@@gianlucaolano5341 Same thing in german, also in german the cutscenes are just broken, as nearly no lines get finished and everybody cuts off everybody.
I mean Admiral Atlantis was born on Atlantis (that still looks like Mindanao in Re-Told) located on the same coordinates as the Canary Island Group, if ever the mystic island concocted by ancient Greek intellectuals was real. Who knows how the islanders there looked like and sounded like firsthand.
Just the vibe I wanted for this epic! 🤣 When I'm building the Trojan horse, resurrecting Osiris or preventing Ragnarok, I always think about Bulgarian immigrants in New York.
I've always imagined Athena as quite young (in her 20s maybe?) considering she's the daughter of Zeus, so she has to be at least one generation younger looking. I know that doesn't really make sense because the Olympian gods don't age, but you know... But despite her being the goddess of wisdom Athena is often quite immature, but then again so are the rest of the Olympians as well.
@@Machoman50ta if it's the problem with the voice acting, I sure hope we can take the audio files from the game and replace the new voice acting with the old, I don't know how it will turn out, I feel like the developers had absolutely no idea on what to do with voice acting
they really don't need those giant character portraits next to the dialog during cut scenes. They just distract you from whats going on, they should entirely remove them imo
If only they could make a portrait that doesn't look like some cheap AI art, for example, pouring creativity like Supergiant's Hades, then I'm absolutely fine with it.
Nothing against the vocie actors, I think the problem is the lack of direction. Small example: Agamenon is lacking the smugness and rank pulling in the "as the commander" line in mission 4.
Totally agree. I think getting the voice actors to re-record their lines with proper direction and changing the musical cues in the appropriate cutscenes would make it perfect.
Also seen in Arkantos' reply, 'thats a fine start...' original his aprehension is clear, remaster sounds like he fully agrees with Agememnon. Can only the difference being that much if the new voice actor was just reading their lines, and wasnt given the context of how the line was delivered in the original.
@@johanlassen6448 Which is crazy when you think about how much the VAs in the original AoM factor into the nostalgia that will be powering most of the initial purchases. And the fact that AoM was famous for its campaign. I think it's an incompetent director more than an absent one.
Carole Ruggier is the woman who voiced the original Athena in Age of Mythology, and it was so good they brought her to give voice to Athena in the God of War games. Why not casting her again for the Retold?
This is just an assumption, but the MS DEI team probably told the creators they should hire authentic Greek VAs instead of the best actors. The result of course being another masterpiece enshittified by wokeism
The original one had really clear emotional context and I hate they are making the new one overly accented at cost to tight emotionally clear storytelling. Oh yes the old one has campy Saturday morning cartoon vibes (nvm how comically moustache twirling Gargarensis is) but I loved it for what it was. With what you've shown the new version's very ambiguous with many of the delivered lines and jokes. You are right to worry, this does bringing the quality down.
Honestly you know what I thought about Arkantos' voice? I speak Greek and sometimes when I speak German and pretend to have a Greek accent it slips into a Russian one. It's exactly what's happening here!
I mean, Athena in SMITE was ridiculed for having a "Russian" accent for a long time until a bunch of Greek players finally were able to convince the fandom that very strong Greek accents can actually skew Russian-sounding, so even though the languages are extremely different, it makes sense that in a game where basically everyone but the Greek characters had accents, they'd change that and people would be confused
@@dwell7315 Hm, my Greek family does not sound Russian (like the other half of my family lmao) but this is anecdotal. I wonder if there's actual numbers/ a study on that?
The same with the 90s and all the way up to its release. Even something like the Mummy 1 and 2 gave inspiration to them. From the scorpion man to the anubis warriors.
I'll be entirely honest: The first instance Modding will be introduced to this game or EVEN before it is introduced, someone would've already created a Restoration Patch for the old voices in the Campaigns. (So sad for any future campaigns though)
Aww... They updated/changed the voices? The older voices were amazing... I hope the old ones will be available too via a mod/option. Although, the graphics do look MUCH better than before.
Arkantos looks like a middle-aged Mediterranean white-collar salesman with a personal wine collection that he is so proud of- he either drives a cheap ferrari or a porsche and his only son continues to dissapoint him as he lazily plays real-time strategy games instead of going outside
He hated to be cvqked by the Trojans namely Priam and Paris because of Helen who was billed even by the Olympian deities as "the most beautiful human woman" in The Iliad.
@@royasturias1784he hadnt been cuvked. It was his brother, Menelaus. and its a tad more complicated... as older brother, Agamemnon was obligated to defend his brother's honour, and all of Helen's suitors had sworn similar oaths. Adding to that, Helen was the reason that Nenelaus was King of Sparta. Any son Paris might have with her would have had a claim, which couldve led to civil war. Also, Paris also stole a chunk of the spartan treasury when he made off with Helen.
@@undertakernumberone1 Whether the Trojans could be introduced into the game in their mini campaign with Hero units like Paris (though he'll be an asset swap of Odysseus with a unique skill), his brother Hektor on his war chariot as his nem Achilles in the game is on horseback and of course Aeneas (rumoured son of Aphrodite/Venus)
Old Athena: sounds like a goddess New Athena: sounds like a bored next door neighbor Old Arkantos: sounds like a future god New Arkantos: sounds like a retired fisher The accents are more authentic, but we know this game isn't authentic and we didn't come here for that, and the mythology is gone. All mortals, no gods.
3:26 I would say that my criticism of the newer scene is the tone in which the lines are delivered, specifically Arkantos' line "That's a fine start. What about the rest of the armies?" In the older version, Arkantos speaks with an inquisitive, almost skeptical tone, pondering Agammnon's plan on the spot and realizing that he hasn't accounted for everything. Agamemnon then responds to Arkantos with a response that can essentially be summed up to "We'll deal with it when it comes up" leaving Arkantos and Odysseus to share a knowing look with each other as Agamemnon walks off, that they essentially have to go along with, despite their skepticism and reluctance, as Agamemnon put it, he was the commanding officer. Couple this with the fact that Agamemnon's answer indicated that Arkantos and Odysseus will be doing the hard of actually breaking the gates of Troy down, it almost seems like Agamemnon is more concerned with rescuing Helen than the war with Troy. And as it turns out, Arkantos and Odysseus' skepticism was warranted, backed up by the fact that after the mission when you take down the gate,, you're constantly on the defensive from Trojan counter-attacks, probably from the armies that Arkantos had questioned about in the first place. And you're on the defensive until Arkantos and Odysseus' plan for the wooden horse. Now comparing all that with the newer version, Arkantos' tone sounds way too upbeat and positive, like he's whole heartily agreeing with the plan without thinking. Really, he sounds like a naive yes-man in this scene. But the bigger problem with the more positive tone in is the fact that it makes Arkantos seem more like an incompetent admiral, now that his tone indicates that he's fully onboard with the plan, only for the disaster to happen with Troy's counter attacks later. Not to mention now that stare that Arkantos and Odysseus share has less meaning behind it, as they both now are seemingly agreeing with Agamemnon's simple plan, rather than being skeptical of it. There's a lot of scenes like this that are almost ruined with the simple tone shifts that characters have in the newer version than the original. I also want to preface that I don't think they're worse simply because it's not the original. I think the biggest problem is probably due to the voice actors not having enough direction. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they were just reading these lines off a script in a booth with no context for what was happening during the scenes that they're supposed to be voice acting for. I sincerely hope they rerecord these lines in the game, as AoM is beloved for it's campaign and characters. I'd hate to see new generations of players playing this version of the campaign for the first time, and being off put by the voice lines. (Edit): Ah, well, pays to watch the whole video before commenting. Guess I got a bit too excited. Yeah, I completely agree, and I even overlooked the woman chasing the sheep in the background behind Agememnon to undercut his authority a bit. That was a good catch
Another thing in the old version is when Odysseus says they could use Arkantos' advice with the seige. Agamemnon reminds them that he is the one in charge. Like he was afraid that Arkantos' opinions would undermine his authority. Hence, he tells them he is the one in charge. In the new version, that emphasis on " as the commander in charge" is gone and the line feels just flat.
To be clear, these are not Greek accents. The problem isn't that they tried to have a Greek accent. It's great that they tried to fix it, as it always sounded weird how Amanra had an accent but Ajax was American, but they replaced it with another stereotype by having the actors make a random foreign accent, essentially being what the average American thinks an Eastern Mediterranean accent is. The other sand fact is that while we're talking about the downgrade we missed the possible improvements, like for example restoring the cut dialogue that gave some much more characterisation and explained some things that weren't clear.
@@hirvielain9013 I like media around Greece having Greek actors or at least accents instead of the stereotypical british accent but the AoM story was never super serious so I don't think replacing the campaign voices was necessary.
When i'm watching a movie or a game like this and hear english i don't think wait a minute they don't speak english in greece! I think well if i spoke greek i would understand the language as i do english. Now when they speak with accent's it's like are they speaking to each other in english with an accent? Might aswell just speak in greek and give me subtitles.
100% agreed on all points! The campaign IS in fact one if not the best of it's kind (besides Wacraft 3). For me personally it's also sad seeing all the effort they put in remaking the campaign while not always meeting or even exceeding the quality of the original (for the very same reasons you mentioned). I don't mind if they change things at all. But if they do it should at least be on the same quality level oder even better (no change for the sake of changing).
There seems to be way too much emphasis on accents in the new dub instead of ensuring tone or timing on delivery. It honestly makes it more of a pain just to follow what is being said and probably made it harder for the VAs to convey the bits everyone is concerned with. That outro look at the Kamos dialogue is really bad in comparison to the original, forcing that constant growl just made it sound painful.
@@lothar3073 Comparing something to AI, even if it isn't actually AI, still conveys the point: The lines feel stilted, empty, bereft of emotion. And that's fair criticism.
@@BlackThorusI agree. But I also agree with the other comment as well. Saying that everything one dislikes feels or is AI just feels as a cheap argument to me even though in this case it does indeed convey the point, humans can sound incredibly stiff and unnatural in their performance and even in their natural tone.
@@lothar3073 That's literally what's been going on with this game lately. Voice acting is Ai. New portraits are ai. And if anyone says otherwise they're lying.
i feel like hte portraits whenever a character speaks really take away from the experience and pulls your atention from the charm of the little animations that give the scenes so much character and personality and charm
Fellow beta participant here, totally agree about the tone and voice direction being off. Really, really hope they at least give us an option to restore the original voices for Fall of the Trident, likewise so I can recommend my friends play Retold. It's definitely "possible", since Athena's old VA lines are used in the Tutorial Intro Cinematic. My worry is that they'll just be stubborn and refuse to budge, come what may, like they have been for the obviously AI-generated artwork that they refuse to acknowledge. I also thought that the cutscene portraits (also AI-generated, judging from the artifacting and stray pixels on the transparency layer) that showed up were extremely gaudy and that we should at least be able to turn them off to match the old campaign. They don't add anything and just make the whole thing look like a cheap mobile game. Honestly hope that they delay this game. Even piecemeal, I worry that they can't deliver on the campaign quality of even a portion of the greek section in just a month's time. It's that rough imo. Having said that, the skirmish mode is very good already, so maybe they could just delay the campaign content.
@@Queijo566 If I sound negative, it's because I love this game and truly want the best for it, so we all have a quality product for all to enjoy, newcomer or age-old fan. What I have written is pretty commonly held opinion amongst people who have played the beta too; just check out the forums and discord. I'm not just trying to be a downer for no reason, unfortunately.
They abused AI generation for this game and as you said the game feels really CHEAP. I'm starting to believe that it is just a tool to make money from our nostalgia.
I have no issue with them having no accent. They wouldnt be speaking english in the first place, they speak their mother tongue so they should have no accent to each others ears
i am holding out hope that they gave the german version of the game the aoe3de treatment, that is to say, not changing anything about the voice acting, the original aom german voice acting wasn't great but it had it's charme and did it's job well enough
That body language of Agamemnon and the reaction of Ulysses and Arkantos is one of the funniest thing in the game (with the description of Ajax in boar form). I had a grin just in anticipation watching this, no matter the voices
I loved those campaigns as a kid, even the slog to finish off Troy was (looking back on it) a blast. And even as an adult who has now read the Iliad and Odyssey I'm amazed at how well they captured the feeling of that 10-year siege in a videogame. I remember breaking that freaking gate multiple times only to have the Trojans drive me back, and then FINALLY the horse idea comes up and I'm like "HECK YEAH!!! I'M ABOUT TO BE DONE WITH THIS STUPID SIEGE!!"
The original voice still stuck in my head verbatim. Nostalgia aside, I don't think Retold captured the tone and energy of the classic at all. It must be fixed. Retold sounds too serious! @ChillyEmpire, you stated some very good points about keeping the soul of the original and keeping the new players and old fans engaged by releasing bite-sized freeLCs
I remember in old AOM, the under sea things look very beautiful from above. The corals waving with the streams, fish, rocks. Even when ships got destroy, the sunking piece will down into the bottom and stay there for awhile. Its might low texture but its made the sea more lively
Honestly the new one looses the intonation and the emotion it tries to show, like in the second mission intro begining "They are gonna pay for what they did to Poseidon and Atlantis" in the original Arkantos sounds furious and ready to kick some ass to please Poseidon but in the new one...he kinda sounds like he is slightly annoyed or in the first mission begining when Arkantos says "Troops we send now will be lucky to arrive before the fight is over. Even if they do their only task will be to show the banner of Atlantis- not a task for an admiral" he sounds annoyed because of dumb the ideea is but in Retold he sounds so.....neutral like he barely gives a damn about it, lets not forgget that the way Retold Arkantos says "Kamos" sounds so wrong compared to the original Arkantos
Amazing how everything you said about the voiceacting also applies to the reworked german version, exactly the same issues, so they definitely had direction for those lines but it just pales in comparison when knowing the old version which is just seared into my brain. I am also of the same opinion of literally just overlaying the old voicelines, at least as an option, when half the goal of the project is invoking nostalgia anyways. As for the looks...I have to say, everything new that they added to the game I am pretty fond of. But the style itself I am not...it´s not bad, it´s just...sigh, it´s made for a newer generation. It all has that AOE4 colour gradiant where everything kind of blends into everything else. it´s all a little bit cartoonier than the old style. I liked having some contrasting shadows and corners, I really had an easier time with the old graphics taking in the information. It´s a bit like the water, the wave and motionanimations of the water look spectacular, but when I look at the water in the video I see basically a grey puddle, maybe some rocks at the shore half sticking out, while in the old game I had the navy blue calm waters and clear rivers where I could see basically straight down into the riverbed with its plants and wildlife...worse animation but more stuff that I liked to look at. Now obviously that is nostalgia speaking as well, but I also think there is a bit more to it that is difficult to grasp. While the colours for example are popping nicely, it is almost like as if the greens are a bit "too green" and the stones on the buildings sometimes don´t feel like they were made from stone that you can find anywhere on the map. It´s like an issue "when everything pops nothing stands out"...at least I feel that way. Who knows, maybe it is nostalgia talking but I feel like younger kids probably have an easier time with this because they are used to that kind of style in nowadays games. As for the maps in the campaigns, it has always been one of my greatest fun moments in memory when I could find secrets and loot in the campaign maps. That was amazingly done in the greek campaign from literal sideobjectives to gold from ship wrecks and other hidden goodies like lost myth units etc. Exploring the map for that reason alone made it so much more fun and I hope that they will work those little fun things into later campaign maps better than the original. Not at all important but gave it so much charme.
"Amazing how everything you said about the voiceacting also applies to the reworked german version, exactly the same issues, so they definitely had direction for those lines but it just pales in comparison when knowing the old version which is just seared into my brain." Oh no, is this Warcraft Reforged new voice acting all over again? Only this time the english players suffer as well
Aside from the fact that the original voice acting is so incredibly iconic that it will be effectively impossible to do it justice in a new rendition, it feels like the new voicework suffers most heavily from bad direction. The voicelines you compared here highlight this, I think, as quickly as the 'That looked like Theris' line. New Athena expresses genuine surprise to see Theris in Arkantos' dreams. In contrast, old Athena sounds like she's affirming something she already knew. This fits with Athena's role in the story as a string-pulling type of character. She already knows Arkantos is restless and still fighting old battles. When she arrives in his dream, she is therefor not at all surprised to see Theris there. New Athena adding that surprise is a break in the character. Suddenly Athena does not actually know all the parts of her plans. It's similar to Arkantos sounding significantly more genuine in his praise of Agamemnon's plans. It feels like the art direction, fortunately, didn't take -too many- liberties with the material in creation of Retold, because what's there does not feel right.
I agree with all your points and I think you did a great job in structuring the video and presenting them. I also feel like the soundtrack has been remixed and it doesn't have the same impact. The campaign maps are also a little smaller (most noticeable in the third campaign mission). I hope they address all the points you mentioned in the video and sort the ones I just said.
Any remake, especially ones from the 64-bit era and up, deserve to have an option to use the original sounds. Voices, Soundtracks, Sound effects, everything. Sound makes such a difference and even small changes can drastically shape the experience. The two most massive dealbreakers for me for a game like this would be changing the maps and changing the Voice Acting.
as a kid i played through this campaign a few times and i loved it. your gripes/critique/feedback you have here is a well pointed out what the problem is and i hope they are changing it up a bit. speaking of accents, anyone played hades? :)
Yeah you definitely got a point... In the original did go over the top, but that's what gave them that charisma and memorability, since it did sounded like they were outraged, joking or emphasizing important moments. In retold they really sound like they are just reading their scripts with the same energy as when Peter Dinklage voice the little robot in the Destiny games.
Trying to give fitting accents to the characters is fine (even tho I read some Greeks saying they don't sound Greek at all...), the problem is the voice acting is kinda bad in general... And like you mentioned, misses many of the original notes like Arkantos righteousness and condescendence. Athena is the prime example, she sounds like a student reading a play, no confidence, no energy... What I don't understand is why re-record the lines again if they are literally keeping the original writing? Whats the point? Like you said, this is AoM RETOLD, they could change the story, add more characters (Achilles?), add one mission or 2 idk. In the end, things amount if they're done well or not, the game itself looks fine, the vo doesn't...
My guess for the new voice acting either have something to do with copyright or that they plan to incorporate the characters in the upcoming expansion campaigns. We do know that they plan for at least 2 more civilisations, one of them being a rework of the chinese. I believe they will send our heroes to China.
@@FERGUSOra Prepping them for a new story expansion could be a good explanation, but I don't believe it's gonna happen. So far everything seems to be exactly the same, and if they don't change anything at all I'd say the story is pretty much concluded in the Titans expansion with little room for err... expansion... Or, they could actually flesh out the Titans campaign I guess, make it feel a little less rushed with some more story scenarios, time will tell.
Best part of a beta? Devs getting feedback and being allowed the time to make changes and adjustments. You are giving feedback that devs should see and think about taking some of these to heart.
Man I'm so w you re: the campaign. VAs needed better direction for this. I'd rather have that or, as you say, a rewrite to match the vibes they were going for. Visually, the game looks gorgeous, tho (love the new UI! - sleek and modern without losing character)
Arkantos and other Greek characters sound like the Greek characters from Titan Quest, a harsh burly accent, not that big of a problem for me since it kinda is a early 2000's game era
I agree with you and I love the nuanced and respectful take. Would be nice to have the option to choose if they redid the lines beat for beat. The game looks grate but the vibes was a very big part of it. Also, as a non native english speaker, I do like the campy americant accent more than a Greek one. But I can’t die on this hill since the Amandra has an accent of her own.
I agree completely regarding the piecemeal campaign. I mean, there are 30+ scenario in the original game, I would play them til the dawn back when I was a kid, but now it's kinda overwhelming honestly. If the dev can improve more QoL of the game with each update, I'm sure it'll hook me over, because the original Chinese Expansion fiasco is still haunting my mind.
Regarding the voice acting, I seriously would love to know who their voice director was and also how the recording sessions went because wow, these are awful (some better moments sprinkled there though) and I would love to hear the outtakes if these are the final performances. I would also appreciate an interview with someone in charge of the narrative for Retold because I want to hear what they wanted to get out of the campaign by going in this direction and most importantly why they think the original campaign worked in terms of performances or didn’t work either just to get some perspective and context since in regards to other aspects of the game they’ve really tried (and mostly succeeded) to create the game we remembered but more grandiose and bigger in scale and scope. Sadly that will probably not happen because they’ve rarely done behind the scenes deep dives for these aside from some stuff for DE1 and that 1 interview with Todd Masten regarding the approach to AOE3DE:s soundtrack. Still holding out hope for some with Retold though. Releasing the campaign piece meal is something I do not necessarily agree with and quite frankly it has been advertised as a “back of the box” feature if you will so them cutting it out is unlikely but nevertheless still a possibility. In terms of scenario design I had really fun and some of the changes that they’ve made to the scenarios both subtle and not so subtle (removing the TC in mission 1, making the farms more viable in mission 5 by moving it a bit farther from the Trot base this time with an increased frequency of Troy raids too) makes the campaign more engaging and the changes overall mesh well with the new design approach for Retold as a whole all the more reason why it truly baffles me as to why they did what they did with the voice performances and their direction. I’ll replay the campaign purely for the gameplay this time around and not for the whole package which, as a huge fan of the game I am more than a little disappointed by.
Mythology and history of that time is filtered through the time between us and them in addition to our modern perception of that time period. So I agree with you that the voices don't need to sound accurate, but I also appreciate the effort. Especially for the greek civs. The Norse have always sounded pretty accurate to me as a Swede. I wonder how they changed Amanra. She is my favorite character in the original and she has such a badass African War women persona that is amplified thought her voice performance.
I completely agree with you, besides 3 issues the Retold looks gorgeus. 1) Obsivously the Campaing Voice Acting, Mods would solve this issue for the nostalgic veterans, but i really don't want it to be the first exprience of the campaign for new begineers 2) Lack of Body Remains, Skeletons and Blood, i think they removed this feature either they want to it to fit some sort of age rating or they didn't remove it it is just not present in the beta, i hope for latter 3)Some of the god portraits look weird, but overall most of look good, and even better than the original, and more mythologicaly accurute as well, but some kinda uncanny perhaps i am too nostalgic, This was the first age game that i played and i started to imagine mythological gods based on my exprience of this game
For number 2, I think they might have done it to be able to sell the game in China. That might be the reason why there aren't any skeletons in the gods portraits anymore. Hel is the worst example of this. She is supposed have half a body of a young maiden and half a body of a corpse, which they delivered well in the original.
I certainly agree with your points on this game, it is sad to see some of those bugs but hopefully they get fixed for the release. I thought the characters details looked a bit dated to be fair, especially the hair.
Well, can't add much. Completely agree with everything you say. This original campaign is my fav of any campaigns, even surpassing sc2 campaign. Just re-place the voicing with the original, and polish the animations, and that ship-scene as well ofc, and i think it'll be set, even if this means a delay.
Not just the sub-par voice-acting: There is also heavy speculation that the god portraits used AI image generation in the process. Regardless of your values on AI art, right now the technology isn't as good as human artists, but it is cheaper. There's also the most recent AoE2 DLC being mostly repackaged fan scenarios and AoE4 slowing down substantial updates while still missing QoL features. I'm worried that these all might be signs that the budgets for these games might be on the decline because Microsoft has decided it wants to scale back support for the series
I generally agree about the voices, except the "campy/Disney" description which makes it sound like the old VA or the campaign itself wasn't 'serious'; there's some camp, yes, but it always took itself serious to a degree. More fictionalized than 'historically' accurate, but still self-serious especially further on in the story. If we're comparing it to Disney, it was definitely more 'The Hunchback of Notre Dame' than 'Tangled' or 'Moana'.
Absolutely agree. The campaign voice acting is really the only issue I had with the beta (apart from pathfinding, some graphical bugs, and the occasional crash, all of which I expect to be fixed by the time of release). The gameplay itself is great imo, I loved the updates and additions and improvements across the board. And even the voice lines for all the units in-game sound great. It's just the campaign cutscenes and narrative voice-overs in scenarios that dragged me down. The delivery for so many lines is just flat, thin, reedy, bored, off-tone. The original voices had energy, pomp, gravitas. They were just fun to listen to. I'd be perfectly fine with delays to release if the devs need it to address feedback, particularly around the campaign. Changing the direction for the voice actors would be very welcome. But personally I don't really agree that they should release the game piece-meal just for the sake of keeping people engaged. I don't believe that every games needs to be a live service run for years and years. And I actually *would* be fairly disappointed if the Atlanteans weren't available at launch, I want to play them if they're ready. People can play the game obsessively for a month and then move on to other things for a bit, that's totally fine. I know I will be coming back to this over and over again because that's what the original game has done for me. Hopefully, as long as the new content they release is of good quality and lots of people buy it, that will be enough to encourage additional DLC beyond what they've already announced. Addition: with the ISIS HEAR MY PLEA cheat, I was able to get the campaign heroes in a skirmish game, and I did not find Amanra's voice to be very encouraging. Which would be the worst, honestly, since her performance in particular was absolutely iconic imo and definitely a standout from the original game
In what world are these overacted accents actually an improvement? I thought Hollywood nonsense accents finally went out of fashion... Either have them speak Greek (having them speak English is inherently inauthentic, after all) or just normally, I don't need Russian villian from an 80's movie style voice acting.
Possibly not popular opinion but I prefer the new VO. Those Greek accents slap and it just feels more authentic. I do come from the Mediterranean so I'm familiar with these accents so might be biased here, but I think they nailed the feeling of a Greek speaking English. The quality isn't even bad IMO. Agamemnon's last line in the new VO just transmits much more of the "I'm the true hero in this siege" vibe than the original, imo.
btw, nothing to do with VA, they changed Atlantis location! from a hige island west of the pillars of Heracles/Straights of Gibraltar to a small island just of the coast of greece i also love how that one sailor, in retold, just shouts into Arkantos ear to wake him up
Anyone else think it would be badass if they added a sort of “galactic conquest “ or “war for the ring” styled conquest system where you conquer the world or wherever they choose to end the map?
I used to play AoM as a 9-10 year old kid, who is not a native English speaker. To me having these new accents give me more nostalgia ,as I could not really understood the dialog it self at the time so I did not even remember how they used to sound. (the texts where transalted so I udnerstood the objectives) . Hearing now many years later the original VA feels... too american tbh. So I give props for the new VA
My guess, is they probably changed portions of the campaign adding or changing mission and that original actors didnt want to do it. Forcing them to change all the actors all together. To allow them to add missions or bring back characters in future expansion without these random voice changes.
I really dislike the accents of the characters. I always thought that them speaking English in the original was just a translation from Greek to English for our convenience, and that they were actually speaking Greek. But now with the accent it feels like the Greeks from 1200 BC are really speaking modern English with an accent for some reason... I mean either speak actual Greek or actual English, not broken English which doesn't make any sense! Also I don't like how they changed Arkantos' looks. He's clearly a different guy now, not the hero I liked in the original. Kamos' voice acting at the end of the video was superb though, and the graphics in general look very nice. The campaign feels quite lazily made with the stiff animations and the unenthusiastic voice acting with a silly accent. If they were made better I would already have preordered the premium edition, but now I don't feel any rush. Yes, the gameplay has some very nice changes but that alone doesn't justify the 50$ price for me.
Man I already miss the beta, can't wait for the full game! But yeah, the original voices are better, perhaps they will give us a toggle option to chose between them. The original Arkantos sounds badass, the new one sounds like an indian dude answering a help line for PC or whatever.
They should have just used the original voices and sound files, maybe tried remastering those files. Destroy All Humans 1 and 2's remakes used the original sound files. I know in the first, and I think the second had it initially before it was updated through a patch, but they sounded really compressed and low quality, but nowadays they can fix that.
I'm getting that itch I always get when I hear competent VAs who were given no direction. The problem is this is not a new game. Even with 0 direction the original was right there for inspiration. And like you said. It's not the accents. It's the fact that they don't convey the same feelings. New Athena sounds like a 20 year old who just moved out of her parents house. Old Athena sounds wise and calm. I would listen to old Athena without even knowing who she was.
How do the new mechanics feel with the tone of the missions? The Prometheus Titan being blocked by a river is gonna feel odd after the basic titans can walk though oceans.
hope we have mods for this where people keep old aspects of the game and keep aspects remove stuff from this retold :) I love how units get skin changes when upgraded in retold so far
I agree with the part about the dubbing. I prefer the old voices, I think they fit better, but the problem here is not the voices, but how the scripts were read. The main thing about a dubbing (for me) is not the voice itself, but whether the voice is capable of conveying the character and the situation, as you pointed out, in Arkantos' part with Agamemnon. the way the voice actors are reading the script is strange.
I'm glad the IP isn't dead. Even if we dont get a new game, it's at least being carried into the future. It's a little sad seeing the AI art and voice acting critiques and realizing that it might not be up to the same standard or an improvement to the original in a few keys ways. Nostalgia will probably make me pick it up eventually anyways though.
I think you're under estimating the intensity of backlash if they asked $30 for a remake of an existing $30 game and the remake having fewer features at launch. That could do more to hurt AoM's launch than a lack of post launch content updates.
As someone who can't wait for this to release and has zero planned intent to play the multiplayer and ONLY lives to play single player campaign - the voice acting doesn't bother me at all. I actually think it's an improvement due effort given to try and improve the authenticity of the accents. I was a big nerd as a kid and knew then that this is not how people from the Mediterranean sound...As good as the original voice acting was for a dramatic flair, I think I will find the authenticity more immersive.
THINGS I COULD CHANGE BY MY OWN IF DEVS DONT DO: 1.- AI generated PORTRAITS XD 2.- Awful acting voices... I REALLY WANT TO MOD THE MAIN CAMPAING WITH THE OLD VERSION (we all have in the original game) 3.- The profile besides the text below is SOOO BIG XD and anoying, if i can take it out i will. 4.- THE OLD AMAZING INTRO :,( i m really going to add it as a launcher... ITS A SIN NOT ADDING THAT!. THING THEY HAVE TO CHANGE :( 1.- THE AUDIO TRANSICIONS ARE GONE! :O WTF??? The original game already had that! and its an essential part of the game (especially in campaing) 2.- Finally, Some powers need to be balanced, maybe its not just the powers but the entire CIV, because multiplayers will explode if they release it this way... THANKS FOR READING GUYS, give a like if you agree, and tell me if dont pls.
I'm almost sure there will soon be a mod for this game taht adds in the old voice-lines. The're still available, as they were accessible in the old (pre Steam) disc versions of the game, and modding htem in I assume is quite the easy modification :D
on top of all your points, for some reason the game gave me 2 options: to play on windowed or to play borderless mode, and because i have 2 screens my mouse would constantly go to the other monitor every time i try to move the camera
Bit sad that they fiddled with the campaign. Reeks of change for change's sake. What's worse is you know a lot of their budget went into that. It only needed a graphical update and perhaps a few tweaks, not all new actors basically redoing it from scratch
New VA's aren't very Prostagma nor Vulome 😞
LOL
The new accents are not even Greek!!! They sound Arabic-Russian...
They lack that subtle, Leishe? Am i right 😑
Too much eisvoli.
Not enough Fritomus
Something that immediately struck me was how energetic Retold's Arkantos sounds. Arkantos in the original campaign was an old campaigner who thought he'd seen everything and then got thrust into events of a scale that he couldn't have prepared for (hence making those events that much more striking). This Arkantos sounds from the beginning like the far younger man that he used to be, brave and adventurous and without the mundanity of the world he created weighing him down, which sadly makes for a far flatter character.
That couldn't be more right. I hope they give us two options, one with the old voice actors and the new.
Exactly!
The voices in the AoE2:DE campaigns have a similar issue. The original voices often had very questionable accents, but they had a lot of character and were fun to listen to, where the new (admittedly more authentic) voices often just sound bored. I guess this stuff is hard to get right, but it's still disappointing.
@@BenSmith-qw4kd Yep. Its very disappointing indeed.
Really well put.
I'm certain that one of the first mods for this game will restore the old voice acting back to the original.
Definitely
And I hope they do that for all languages. In Spanish the voice are a beloved meme but the new voices are too "serious" to reach that lol
Yeah. But I expect them to add some more lines to the late mission intros.
@@gianlucaolano5341 Same thing in german, also in german the cutscenes are just broken, as nearly no lines get finished and everybody cuts off everybody.
That and a free modded version of the "old portraits back" pack
God the original voice acting was so unbelievably iconic
Ahh yes, Arkantos , the bulgarian immigrant that just learned english a couple of years ago and is still adjusting to life in NYC
I mean Admiral Atlantis was born on Atlantis (that still looks like Mindanao in Re-Told) located on the same coordinates as the Canary Island Group, if ever the mystic island concocted by ancient Greek intellectuals was real. Who knows how the islanders there looked like and sounded like firsthand.
@@royasturias1784 that is a very good point but it is highly unlikely that they would be bulgarian slavs.
Just the vibe I wanted for this epic! 🤣
When I'm building the Trojan horse, resurrecting Osiris or preventing Ragnarok, I always think about Bulgarian immigrants in New York.
@@ze3934 Albanian is the ancestor of Atlantis
@@jeffk862 i will agree only if you agree that god is serbian
Athena doesn't look or sound mature enough to really feel like a goddess of wisdom and strategy.
I've always imagined Athena as quite young (in her 20s maybe?) considering she's the daughter of Zeus, so she has to be at least one generation younger looking. I know that doesn't really make sense because the Olympian gods don't age, but you know...
But despite her being the goddess of wisdom Athena is often quite immature, but then again so are the rest of the Olympians as well.
@@hirvielain9013 her voice still doesn't feel right even if you take that idea
@@Omega-jg4oqlmao you were like yea no 😂 don’t worry I feel the same nothing is better than the original or at least not in our timeline 😢
@@Machoman50ta if it's the problem with the voice acting, I sure hope we can take the audio files from the game and replace the new voice acting with the old, I don't know how it will turn out, I feel like the developers had absolutely no idea on what to do with voice acting
The original voice sounded far more mature, femine and intelligent. And I think there was like a reverb effect on it.
they really don't need those giant character portraits next to the dialog during cut scenes. They just distract you from whats going on, they should entirely remove them imo
totally agree, they make it look like a cheap mobile game cutscene :/
If you ask me, the portraits are fine if they would just be much smaller. Maybe they will add a toggle function in the settings.
YES!! I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU, THOSE ARE UNNECESSARY!
Exactly what i thought, it looks so much like a mobile childy game. And with this VA.... omg even worse.
If only they could make a portrait that doesn't look like some cheap AI art, for example, pouring creativity like Supergiant's Hades, then I'm absolutely fine with it.
Nothing against the vocie actors, I think the problem is the lack of direction.
Small example: Agamenon is lacking the smugness and rank pulling in the "as the commander" line in mission 4.
Totally agree. I think getting the voice actors to re-record their lines with proper direction and changing the musical cues in the appropriate cutscenes would make it perfect.
@@Tiredofdawgz Well, it's kinda REALLY expensive to hire the VAs again so... might not be happening (I hope I'm wrong)
Also seen in Arkantos' reply, 'thats a fine start...' original his aprehension is clear, remaster sounds like he fully agrees with Agememnon.
Can only the difference being that much if the new voice actor was just reading their lines, and wasnt given the context of how the line was delivered in the original.
@@KiLLaKiWi003 Most likely answer yes, i.e. the voice actors were just given lines to read and not told about the cues or context.
@@johanlassen6448 Which is crazy when you think about how much the VAs in the original AoM factor into the nostalgia that will be powering most of the initial purchases. And the fact that AoM was famous for its campaign.
I think it's an incompetent director more than an absent one.
Carole Ruggier is the woman who voiced the original Athena in Age of Mythology, and it was so good they brought her to give voice to Athena in the God of War games.
Why not casting her again for the Retold?
she was born to be the VA of athena, literally perfect
Probably because she's not diverse enough.
Wow. No wonder i thought she sounded familiar
They should've just used the original audio
This is just an assumption, but the MS DEI team probably told the creators they should hire authentic Greek VAs instead of the best actors. The result of course being another masterpiece enshittified by wokeism
The original one had really clear emotional context
and I hate they are making the new one overly accented at cost to tight emotionally clear storytelling.
Oh yes the old one has campy Saturday morning cartoon vibes (nvm how comically moustache twirling Gargarensis is) but I loved it for what it was.
With what you've shown the new version's very ambiguous with many of the delivered lines and jokes. You are right to worry, this does bringing the quality down.
Omg now I wonder what they did to Gsrgarensis. He was a perfect campy villain
@AnUtterMesh The dude literally recited poetry out loud, sometimes directly at his enemies. Garg was SUCH a theater kid and it was great.
Honestly you know what I thought about Arkantos' voice? I speak Greek and sometimes when I speak German and pretend to have a Greek accent it slips into a Russian one. It's exactly what's happening here!
What a roller coaster of a comment lol
@@LeftJoystick I promise I am not making this up LOL
I have exactly the same problem!
I mean, Athena in SMITE was ridiculed for having a "Russian" accent for a long time until a bunch of Greek players finally were able to convince the fandom that very strong Greek accents can actually skew Russian-sounding, so even though the languages are extremely different, it makes sense that in a game where basically everyone but the Greek characters had accents, they'd change that and people would be confused
@@dwell7315 Hm, my Greek family does not sound Russian (like the other half of my family lmao) but this is anecdotal. I wonder if there's actual numbers/ a study on that?
Age of Mythology is almost entirely based on old school movies from the 50s to 80s.
The same with the 90s and all the way up to its release. Even something like the Mummy 1 and 2 gave inspiration to them. From the scorpion man to the anubis warriors.
Sword and Sandal
Is it why Retold feels like a cheap remake of old classics when the color came out. 🤔
Union of Soviet Greek Republics
Hahahahahaha 😂
Now this sounds like a franchise
I'll be entirely honest: The first instance Modding will be introduced to this game or EVEN before it is introduced, someone would've already created a Restoration Patch for the old voices in the Campaigns. (So sad for any future campaigns though)
The same happened with WarCraft 3 Reforged - modders created ReReforged with ALL that Blizzard promised and more! xD
@@igorthelight Wait is reReforged finished? Haven´t touched W3 basically since launch
@@Selesto1only the Scourge of Lordaeron campaign for now
@@Selesto1 Sadly, not finished yet. Campaign is ready up until Undead Campaign.
Hell, I would even support a mod that gets sound-alike VAs to redub any new campaigns.
Aww... They updated/changed the voices? The older voices were amazing... I hope the old ones will be available too via a mod/option. Although, the graphics do look MUCH better than before.
But it is worse compared to modern graphics.
As a Greek, I do not like the new voices..
Arkantos and Athena sound completely unrecognizable. This was not a Greek accent either
Arkantos looks like a middle-aged Mediterranean white-collar salesman with a personal wine collection that he is so proud of- he either drives a cheap ferrari or a porsche and his only son continues to dissapoint him as he lazily plays real-time strategy games instead of going outside
Is Arkantos chinese?
Wow, projection?
How oddly specific
"and his only son continues to dissapoint him"
Well...
Fun fact:
Agamemnon basically caused his own death in the mythology despite countless red flags. So his characterisation here is pretty accurate
He hated to be cvqked by the Trojans namely Priam and Paris because of Helen who was billed even by the Olympian deities as "the most beautiful human woman" in The Iliad.
@@royasturias1784he hadnt been cuvked. It was his brother, Menelaus.
and its a tad more complicated... as older brother, Agamemnon was obligated to defend his brother's honour, and all of Helen's suitors had sworn similar oaths. Adding to that, Helen was the reason that Nenelaus was King of Sparta. Any son Paris might have with her would have had a claim, which couldve led to civil war.
Also, Paris also stole a chunk of the spartan treasury when he made off with Helen.
@@undertakernumberone1 Whether the Trojans could be introduced into the game in their mini campaign with Hero units like Paris (though he'll be an asset swap of Odysseus with a unique skill), his brother Hektor on his war chariot as his nem Achilles in the game is on horseback and of course Aeneas (rumoured son of Aphrodite/Venus)
@@royasturias1784And Penthesilea and her amazons?
@@undertakernumberone1 Paris, in the bird-culture that is considered what we call a dick-move.
Old Athena: sounds like a goddess
New Athena: sounds like a bored next door neighbor
Old Arkantos: sounds like a future god
New Arkantos: sounds like a retired fisher
The accents are more authentic, but we know this game isn't authentic and we didn't come here for that, and the mythology is gone. All mortals, no gods.
3:26
I would say that my criticism of the newer scene is the tone in which the lines are delivered, specifically Arkantos' line "That's a fine start. What about the rest of the armies?"
In the older version, Arkantos speaks with an inquisitive, almost skeptical tone, pondering Agammnon's plan on the spot and realizing that he hasn't accounted for everything. Agamemnon then responds to Arkantos with a response that can essentially be summed up to "We'll deal with it when it comes up" leaving Arkantos and Odysseus to share a knowing look with each other as Agamemnon walks off, that they essentially have to go along with, despite their skepticism and reluctance, as Agamemnon put it, he was the commanding officer. Couple this with the fact that Agamemnon's answer indicated that Arkantos and Odysseus will be doing the hard of actually breaking the gates of Troy down, it almost seems like Agamemnon is more concerned with rescuing Helen than the war with Troy. And as it turns out, Arkantos and Odysseus' skepticism was warranted, backed up by the fact that after the mission when you take down the gate,, you're constantly on the defensive from Trojan counter-attacks, probably from the armies that Arkantos had questioned about in the first place. And you're on the defensive until Arkantos and Odysseus' plan for the wooden horse.
Now comparing all that with the newer version, Arkantos' tone sounds way too upbeat and positive, like he's whole heartily agreeing with the plan without thinking. Really, he sounds like a naive yes-man in this scene. But the bigger problem with the more positive tone in is the fact that it makes Arkantos seem more like an incompetent admiral, now that his tone indicates that he's fully onboard with the plan, only for the disaster to happen with Troy's counter attacks later. Not to mention now that stare that Arkantos and Odysseus share has less meaning behind it, as they both now are seemingly agreeing with Agamemnon's simple plan, rather than being skeptical of it.
There's a lot of scenes like this that are almost ruined with the simple tone shifts that characters have in the newer version than the original. I also want to preface that I don't think they're worse simply because it's not the original. I think the biggest problem is probably due to the voice actors not having enough direction. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they were just reading these lines off a script in a booth with no context for what was happening during the scenes that they're supposed to be voice acting for. I sincerely hope they rerecord these lines in the game, as AoM is beloved for it's campaign and characters. I'd hate to see new generations of players playing this version of the campaign for the first time, and being off put by the voice lines.
(Edit): Ah, well, pays to watch the whole video before commenting. Guess I got a bit too excited. Yeah, I completely agree, and I even overlooked the woman chasing the sheep in the background behind Agememnon to undercut his authority a bit. That was a good catch
Another thing in the old version is when Odysseus says they could use Arkantos' advice with the seige. Agamemnon reminds them that he is the one in charge. Like he was afraid that Arkantos' opinions would undermine his authority. Hence, he tells them he is the one in charge. In the new version, that emphasis on " as the commander in charge" is gone and the line feels just flat.
As a Scandinavian, Thank you for bringing up the viking's horned helmets.
To be clear, these are not Greek accents. The problem isn't that they tried to have a Greek accent. It's great that they tried to fix it, as it always sounded weird how Amanra had an accent but Ajax was American, but they replaced it with another stereotype by having the actors make a random foreign accent, essentially being what the average American thinks an Eastern Mediterranean accent is.
The other sand fact is that while we're talking about the downgrade we missed the possible improvements, like for example restoring the cut dialogue that gave some much more characterisation and explained some things that weren't clear.
The Greek accent sounds fake. That's not how my Greek friends necessarily sound.
thx god someone notice something with this Greek accent , i had to double check XD
Likely American Greek… just a guess
@@raquetdude not even, I could do a much better Greek accent than most of these actors
And why do they even have accents? Are they really Greeks speaking English to each other?
@@hirvielain9013 I like media around Greece having Greek actors or at least accents instead of the stereotypical british accent but the AoM story was never super serious so I don't think replacing the campaign voices was necessary.
When i'm watching a movie or a game like this and hear english i don't think wait a minute they don't speak english in greece! I think well if i spoke greek i would understand the language as i do english. Now when they speak with accent's it's like are they speaking to each other in english with an accent? Might aswell just speak in greek and give me subtitles.
100% agreed on all points!
The campaign IS in fact one if not the best of it's kind (besides Wacraft 3).
For me personally it's also sad seeing all the effort they put in remaking the campaign while not always meeting or even exceeding the quality of the original (for the very same reasons you mentioned). I don't mind if they change things at all. But if they do it should at least be on the same quality level oder even better (no change for the sake of changing).
They should have kept the original voice lines. These new ones makes it sound like they are doing an "Allo allo" styled storytelling.
Welcome to Cafe René
There seems to be way too much emphasis on accents in the new dub instead of ensuring tone or timing on delivery. It honestly makes it more of a pain just to follow what is being said and probably made it harder for the VAs to convey the bits everyone is concerned with. That outro look at the Kamos dialogue is really bad in comparison to the original, forcing that constant growl just made it sound painful.
I'm gonna be honest, but that goddess Athena voice felt AI.
Even the weird toning feels very AI-ish
Like how AI doesn't understand direction, the new voice actors weren't given proper direction
Everything is AI nowadays, if you don't like it say it is AI.
@@lothar3073 Comparing something to AI, even if it isn't actually AI, still conveys the point: The lines feel stilted, empty, bereft of emotion. And that's fair criticism.
@@BlackThorusI agree. But I also agree with the other comment as well. Saying that everything one dislikes feels or is AI just feels as a cheap argument to me even though in this case it does indeed convey the point, humans can sound incredibly stiff and unnatural in their performance and even in their natural tone.
@@lothar3073 That's literally what's been going on with this game lately. Voice acting is Ai. New portraits are ai. And if anyone says otherwise they're lying.
TBH it feels like a LOT of AI was used in Retold. From the voices in campaign to the Gods portraits, hopefully it isnt really AI.
They tried to fix things that simply didn't need fixing and they fucked up hard.
i feel like hte portraits whenever a character speaks really take away from the experience and pulls your atention from the charm of the little animations that give the scenes so much character and personality and charm
Fellow beta participant here, totally agree about the tone and voice direction being off. Really, really hope they at least give us an option to restore the original voices for Fall of the Trident, likewise so I can recommend my friends play Retold. It's definitely "possible", since Athena's old VA lines are used in the Tutorial Intro Cinematic. My worry is that they'll just be stubborn and refuse to budge, come what may, like they have been for the obviously AI-generated artwork that they refuse to acknowledge.
I also thought that the cutscene portraits (also AI-generated, judging from the artifacting and stray pixels on the transparency layer) that showed up were extremely gaudy and that we should at least be able to turn them off to match the old campaign. They don't add anything and just make the whole thing look like a cheap mobile game.
Honestly hope that they delay this game. Even piecemeal, I worry that they can't deliver on the campaign quality of even a portion of the greek section in just a month's time. It's that rough imo.
Having said that, the skirmish mode is very good already, so maybe they could just delay the campaign content.
Jeez, been a while since I've seen someone so negative about something
@@Queijo566 If I sound negative, it's because I love this game and truly want the best for it, so we all have a quality product for all to enjoy, newcomer or age-old fan. What I have written is pretty commonly held opinion amongst people who have played the beta too; just check out the forums and discord. I'm not just trying to be a downer for no reason, unfortunately.
I don't find anything that's unjust here. As a very old AOM fan, even I am dissatisfied with all the same things mentioned above.
You must live under a rock and not look at feedback for anything ever if you think his very valid criticisms are THAT negative.
They abused AI generation for this game and as you said the game feels really CHEAP.
I'm starting to believe that it is just a tool to make money from our nostalgia.
Would be cool if they let us choose what soundpack we want. Original or new.
I have no issue with them having no accent.
They wouldnt be speaking english in the first place, they speak their mother tongue so they should have no accent to each others ears
Fun fact: Old Arkantos Voie Actor also voiced a character in the original ATLA.
Oh really? Which one?
@@ChillyEmpire The Fire nation commander in S3 Episode 3 the painted lady.
@@ChillyEmpirehe also voiced Alduin in Skyrim
@@undertakernumberone1 also Primarch Victus in Mass Effect 3
i am holding out hope that they gave the german version of the game the aoe3de treatment, that is to say, not changing anything about the voice acting, the original aom german voice acting wasn't great but it had it's charme and did it's job well enough
That body language of Agamemnon and the reaction of Ulysses and Arkantos is one of the funniest thing in the game (with the description of Ajax in boar form). I had a grin just in anticipation watching this, no matter the voices
I loved those campaigns as a kid, even the slog to finish off Troy was (looking back on it) a blast. And even as an adult who has now read the Iliad and Odyssey I'm amazed at how well they captured the feeling of that 10-year siege in a videogame. I remember breaking that freaking gate multiple times only to have the Trojans drive me back, and then FINALLY the horse idea comes up and I'm like "HECK YEAH!!! I'M ABOUT TO BE DONE WITH THIS STUPID SIEGE!!"
Hopefully someone can make a mod with original cutscene voiceacting.
I really thought that it was just me nitpicking the voice acting. Thanks for the video.
This feedback needs to be sent to the developers.
Not just in english, they also re-cast the voice actors in the german dub too. It sounds so wrong :c
really want the devs to take this feedback! these very well put together and invaluable
The original voice still stuck in my head verbatim. Nostalgia aside, I don't think Retold captured the tone and energy of the classic at all. It must be fixed. Retold sounds too serious!
@ChillyEmpire, you stated some very good points about keeping the soul of the original and keeping the new players and old fans engaged by releasing bite-sized freeLCs
I remember in old AOM, the under sea things look very beautiful from above.
The corals waving with the streams, fish, rocks. Even when ships got destroy, the sunking piece will down into the bottom and stay there for awhile.
Its might low texture but its made the sea more lively
Honestly the new one looses the intonation and the emotion it tries to show, like in the second mission intro begining "They are gonna pay for what they did to Poseidon and Atlantis" in the original Arkantos sounds furious and ready to kick some ass to please Poseidon but in the new one...he kinda sounds like he is slightly annoyed or in the first mission begining when Arkantos says "Troops we send now will be lucky to arrive before the fight is over. Even if they do their only task will be to show the banner of Atlantis- not a task for an admiral" he sounds annoyed because of dumb the ideea is but in Retold he sounds so.....neutral like he barely gives a damn about it, lets not forgget that the way Retold Arkantos says "Kamos" sounds so wrong compared to the original Arkantos
Amazing how everything you said about the voiceacting also applies to the reworked german version, exactly the same issues, so they definitely had direction for those lines but it just pales in comparison when knowing the old version which is just seared into my brain. I am also of the same opinion of literally just overlaying the old voicelines, at least as an option, when half the goal of the project is invoking nostalgia anyways.
As for the looks...I have to say, everything new that they added to the game I am pretty fond of. But the style itself I am not...it´s not bad, it´s just...sigh, it´s made for a newer generation. It all has that AOE4 colour gradiant where everything kind of blends into everything else. it´s all a little bit cartoonier than the old style. I liked having some contrasting shadows and corners, I really had an easier time with the old graphics taking in the information. It´s a bit like the water, the wave and motionanimations of the water look spectacular, but when I look at the water in the video I see basically a grey puddle, maybe some rocks at the shore half sticking out, while in the old game I had the navy blue calm waters and clear rivers where I could see basically straight down into the riverbed with its plants and wildlife...worse animation but more stuff that I liked to look at. Now obviously that is nostalgia speaking as well, but I also think there is a bit more to it that is difficult to grasp. While the colours for example are popping nicely, it is almost like as if the greens are a bit "too green" and the stones on the buildings sometimes don´t feel like they were made from stone that you can find anywhere on the map. It´s like an issue "when everything pops nothing stands out"...at least I feel that way. Who knows, maybe it is nostalgia talking but I feel like younger kids probably have an easier time with this because they are used to that kind of style in nowadays games.
As for the maps in the campaigns, it has always been one of my greatest fun moments in memory when I could find secrets and loot in the campaign maps. That was amazingly done in the greek campaign from literal sideobjectives to gold from ship wrecks and other hidden goodies like lost myth units etc. Exploring the map for that reason alone made it so much more fun and I hope that they will work those little fun things into later campaign maps better than the original. Not at all important but gave it so much charme.
"Amazing how everything you said about the voiceacting also applies to the reworked german version, exactly the same issues, so they definitely had direction for those lines but it just pales in comparison when knowing the old version which is just seared into my brain."
Oh no, is this Warcraft Reforged new voice acting all over again? Only this time the english players suffer as well
Aside from the fact that the original voice acting is so incredibly iconic that it will be effectively impossible to do it justice in a new rendition, it feels like the new voicework suffers most heavily from bad direction. The voicelines you compared here highlight this, I think, as quickly as the 'That looked like Theris' line. New Athena expresses genuine surprise to see Theris in Arkantos' dreams. In contrast, old Athena sounds like she's affirming something she already knew. This fits with Athena's role in the story as a string-pulling type of character. She already knows Arkantos is restless and still fighting old battles. When she arrives in his dream, she is therefor not at all surprised to see Theris there.
New Athena adding that surprise is a break in the character. Suddenly Athena does not actually know all the parts of her plans. It's similar to Arkantos sounding significantly more genuine in his praise of Agamemnon's plans.
It feels like the art direction, fortunately, didn't take -too many- liberties with the material in creation of Retold, because what's there does not feel right.
This is a very good post beta test recommendation to the devs, and I hope someone on the team at least watches this video
The old Athena sounds like she's the campaign voice over for unreal tournament. The Athena sounds like its her first time in the booth.
I agree with all your points and I think you did a great job in structuring the video and presenting them.
I also feel like the soundtrack has been remixed and it doesn't have the same impact. The campaign maps are also a little smaller (most noticeable in the third campaign mission). I hope they address all the points you mentioned in the video and sort the ones I just said.
Any remake, especially ones from the 64-bit era and up, deserve to have an option to use the original sounds. Voices, Soundtracks, Sound effects, everything.
Sound makes such a difference and even small changes can drastically shape the experience.
The two most massive dealbreakers for me for a game like this would be changing the maps and changing the Voice Acting.
There might be some issues with using their voices in a newer game.
Very great video! You brought up a lot of great points non stop!
as a kid i played through this campaign a few times and i loved it. your gripes/critique/feedback you have here is a well pointed out what the problem is and i hope they are changing it up a bit. speaking of accents, anyone played hades? :)
Yeah you definitely got a point... In the original did go over the top, but that's what gave them that charisma and memorability, since it did sounded like they were outraged, joking or emphasizing important moments.
In retold they really sound like they are just reading their scripts with the same energy as when Peter Dinklage voice the little robot in the Destiny games.
Trying to give fitting accents to the characters is fine (even tho I read some Greeks saying they don't sound Greek at all...), the problem is the voice acting is kinda bad in general... And like you mentioned, misses many of the original notes like Arkantos righteousness and condescendence.
Athena is the prime example, she sounds like a student reading a play, no confidence, no energy...
What I don't understand is why re-record the lines again if they are literally keeping the original writing? Whats the point?
Like you said, this is AoM RETOLD, they could change the story, add more characters (Achilles?), add one mission or 2 idk.
In the end, things amount if they're done well or not, the game itself looks fine, the vo doesn't...
They honesty might be doing that yes.
My guess for the new voice acting either have something to do with copyright or that they plan to incorporate the characters in the upcoming expansion campaigns. We do know that they plan for at least 2 more civilisations, one of them being a rework of the chinese. I believe they will send our heroes to China.
@@FERGUSOra Prepping them for a new story expansion could be a good explanation, but I don't believe it's gonna happen.
So far everything seems to be exactly the same, and if they don't change anything at all I'd say the story is pretty much concluded in the Titans expansion with little room for err... expansion...
Or, they could actually flesh out the Titans campaign I guess, make it feel a little less rushed with some more story scenarios, time will tell.
Best part of a beta?
Devs getting feedback and being allowed the time to make changes and adjustments.
You are giving feedback that devs should see and think about taking some of these to heart.
I didn't realise how good the voice acting in the og was until the new stuff was shown
Man I'm so w you re: the campaign. VAs needed better direction for this. I'd rather have that or, as you say, a rewrite to match the vibes they were going for. Visually, the game looks gorgeous, tho (love the new UI! - sleek and modern without losing character)
I agree completely without you here, you put it into worlds so well. Great job
Arkantos sounds like a greek restaurant owner, give me back the old cool one.
If the owner was an Italian pretending to be Greek.
Arkantos and other Greek characters sound like the Greek characters from Titan Quest, a harsh burly accent, not that big of a problem for me since it kinda is a early 2000's game era
I agree with you and I love the nuanced and respectful take. Would be nice to have the option to choose if they redid the lines beat for beat. The game looks grate but the vibes was a very big part of it. Also, as a non native english speaker, I do like the campy americant accent more than a Greek one. But I can’t die on this hill since the Amandra has an accent of her own.
I agree completely regarding the piecemeal campaign.
I mean, there are 30+ scenario in the original game, I would play them til the dawn back when I was a kid, but now it's kinda overwhelming honestly.
If the dev can improve more QoL of the game with each update, I'm sure it'll hook me over, because the original Chinese Expansion fiasco is still haunting my mind.
This means my man General Melagius has been recast...
"I don't believe it!"
Regarding the voice acting, I seriously would love to know who their voice director was and also how the recording sessions went because wow, these are awful (some better moments sprinkled there though) and I would love to hear the outtakes if these are the final performances.
I would also appreciate an interview with someone in charge of the narrative for Retold because I want to hear what they wanted to get out of the campaign by going in this direction and most importantly why they think the original campaign worked in terms of performances or didn’t work either just to get some perspective and context since in regards to other aspects of the game they’ve really tried (and mostly succeeded) to create the game we remembered but more grandiose and bigger in scale and scope. Sadly that will probably not happen because they’ve rarely done behind the scenes deep dives for these aside from some stuff for DE1 and that 1 interview with Todd Masten regarding the approach to AOE3DE:s soundtrack. Still holding out hope for some with Retold though.
Releasing the campaign piece meal is something I do not necessarily agree with and quite frankly it has been advertised as a “back of the box” feature if you will so them cutting it out is unlikely but nevertheless still a possibility.
In terms of scenario design I had really fun and some of the changes that they’ve made to the scenarios both subtle and not so subtle (removing the TC in mission 1, making the farms more viable in mission 5 by moving it a bit farther from the Trot base this time with an increased frequency of Troy raids too) makes the campaign more engaging and the changes overall mesh well with the new design approach for Retold as a whole all the more reason why it truly baffles me as to why they did what they did with the voice performances and their direction.
I’ll replay the campaign purely for the gameplay this time around and not for the whole package which, as a huge fan of the game I am more than a little disappointed by.
Mythology and history of that time is filtered through the time between us and them in addition to our modern perception of that time period. So I agree with you that the voices don't need to sound accurate, but I also appreciate the effort. Especially for the greek civs. The Norse have always sounded pretty accurate to me as a Swede. I wonder how they changed Amanra. She is my favorite character in the original and she has such a badass African War women persona that is amplified thought her voice performance.
I completely agree with you, besides 3 issues the Retold looks gorgeus.
1) Obsivously the Campaing Voice Acting, Mods would solve this issue for the nostalgic veterans, but i really don't want it to be the first exprience of the campaign for new begineers
2) Lack of Body Remains, Skeletons and Blood, i think they removed this feature either they want to it to fit some sort of age rating or they didn't remove it it is just not present in the beta, i hope for latter
3)Some of the god portraits look weird, but overall most of look good, and even better than the original, and more mythologicaly accurute as well, but some kinda uncanny perhaps i am too nostalgic, This was the first age game that i played and i started to imagine mythological gods based on my exprience of this game
For number 2, I think they might have done it to be able to sell the game in China. That might be the reason why there aren't any skeletons in the gods portraits anymore. Hel is the worst example of this. She is supposed have half a body of a young maiden and half a body of a corpse, which they delivered well in the original.
god portraits seem to be, mainly, touched up AI
I certainly agree with your points on this game, it is sad to see some of those bugs but hopefully they get fixed for the release. I thought the characters details looked a bit dated to be fair, especially the hair.
Well, can't add much. Completely agree with everything you say. This original campaign is my fav of any campaigns, even surpassing sc2 campaign. Just re-place the voicing with the original, and polish the animations, and that ship-scene as well ofc, and i think it'll be set, even if this means a delay.
Not just the sub-par voice-acting: There is also heavy speculation that the god portraits used AI image generation in the process. Regardless of your values on AI art, right now the technology isn't as good as human artists, but it is cheaper. There's also the most recent AoE2 DLC being mostly repackaged fan scenarios and AoE4 slowing down substantial updates while still missing QoL features. I'm worried that these all might be signs that the budgets for these games might be on the decline because Microsoft has decided it wants to scale back support for the series
I generally agree about the voices, except the "campy/Disney" description which makes it sound like the old VA or the campaign itself wasn't 'serious'; there's some camp, yes, but it always took itself serious to a degree. More fictionalized than 'historically' accurate, but still self-serious especially further on in the story. If we're comparing it to Disney, it was definitely more 'The Hunchback of Notre Dame' than 'Tangled' or 'Moana'.
Absolutely agree. The campaign voice acting is really the only issue I had with the beta (apart from pathfinding, some graphical bugs, and the occasional crash, all of which I expect to be fixed by the time of release). The gameplay itself is great imo, I loved the updates and additions and improvements across the board. And even the voice lines for all the units in-game sound great. It's just the campaign cutscenes and narrative voice-overs in scenarios that dragged me down. The delivery for so many lines is just flat, thin, reedy, bored, off-tone. The original voices had energy, pomp, gravitas. They were just fun to listen to.
I'd be perfectly fine with delays to release if the devs need it to address feedback, particularly around the campaign. Changing the direction for the voice actors would be very welcome. But personally I don't really agree that they should release the game piece-meal just for the sake of keeping people engaged. I don't believe that every games needs to be a live service run for years and years. And I actually *would* be fairly disappointed if the Atlanteans weren't available at launch, I want to play them if they're ready. People can play the game obsessively for a month and then move on to other things for a bit, that's totally fine. I know I will be coming back to this over and over again because that's what the original game has done for me. Hopefully, as long as the new content they release is of good quality and lots of people buy it, that will be enough to encourage additional DLC beyond what they've already announced.
Addition: with the ISIS HEAR MY PLEA cheat, I was able to get the campaign heroes in a skirmish game, and I did not find Amanra's voice to be very encouraging. Which would be the worst, honestly, since her performance in particular was absolutely iconic imo and definitely a standout from the original game
I agree with pretty much everything you said in the video. I definitely like the old voice acting more
In what world are these overacted accents actually an improvement? I thought Hollywood nonsense accents finally went out of fashion...
Either have them speak Greek (having them speak English is inherently inauthentic, after all) or just normally, I don't need Russian villian from an 80's movie style voice acting.
Possibly not popular opinion but I prefer the new VO. Those Greek accents slap and it just feels more authentic. I do come from the Mediterranean so I'm familiar with these accents so might be biased here, but I think they nailed the feeling of a Greek speaking English. The quality isn't even bad IMO. Agamemnon's last line in the new VO just transmits much more of the "I'm the true hero in this siege" vibe than the original, imo.
btw, nothing to do with VA, they changed Atlantis location! from a hige island west of the pillars of Heracles/Straights of Gibraltar to a small island just of the coast of greece
i also love how that one sailor, in retold, just shouts into Arkantos ear to wake him up
Anyone else think it would be badass if they added a sort of “galactic conquest “ or “war for the ring” styled conquest system where you conquer the world or wherever they choose to end the map?
I used to play AoM as a 9-10 year old kid, who is not a native English speaker. To me having these new accents give me more nostalgia ,as I could not really understood the dialog it self at the time so I did not even remember how they used to sound. (the texts where transalted so I udnerstood the objectives) . Hearing now many years later the original VA feels... too american tbh. So I give props for the new VA
Even Warcraft 3: Reforged didn't mess with the campaign voices. Although, if they had, I imagine it sounding kind of like this.
My guess, is they probably changed portions of the campaign adding or changing mission and that original actors didnt want to do it. Forcing them to change all the actors all together. To allow them to add missions or bring back characters in future expansion without these random voice changes.
They could give you the option to use the modern voice acting or switch to the original.
I really dislike the accents of the characters. I always thought that them speaking English in the original was just a translation from Greek to English for our convenience, and that they were actually speaking Greek. But now with the accent it feels like the Greeks from 1200 BC are really speaking modern English with an accent for some reason... I mean either speak actual Greek or actual English, not broken English which doesn't make any sense!
Also I don't like how they changed Arkantos' looks. He's clearly a different guy now, not the hero I liked in the original. Kamos' voice acting at the end of the video was superb though, and the graphics in general look very nice.
The campaign feels quite lazily made with the stiff animations and the unenthusiastic voice acting with a silly accent. If they were made better I would already have preordered the premium edition, but now I don't feel any rush. Yes, the gameplay has some very nice changes but that alone doesn't justify the 50$ price for me.
Man I already miss the beta, can't wait for the full game!
But yeah, the original voices are better, perhaps they will give us a toggle option to chose between them. The original Arkantos sounds badass, the new one sounds like an indian dude answering a help line for PC or whatever.
They should have just used the original voices and sound files, maybe tried remastering those files. Destroy All Humans 1 and 2's remakes used the original sound files. I know in the first, and I think the second had it initially before it was updated through a patch, but they sounded really compressed and low quality, but nowadays they can fix that.
I'm getting that itch I always get when I hear competent VAs who were given no direction. The problem is this is not a new game. Even with 0 direction the original was right there for inspiration. And like you said. It's not the accents. It's the fact that they don't convey the same feelings. New Athena sounds like a 20 year old who just moved out of her parents house. Old Athena sounds wise and calm. I would listen to old Athena without even knowing who she was.
Let's hope for a mod that return the old voice lines, especially for me the lines in PT-BR which were amazing
In Retold Odysseus doesn't even do the sigh animation movement around the 4:29 minute mark...
Oh no! I'm definitely going to try and find a voice restoration mod. Oh well, most of the rest looks good.
How do the new mechanics feel with the tone of the missions? The Prometheus Titan being blocked by a river is gonna feel odd after the basic titans can walk though oceans.
hope we have mods for this where people keep old aspects of the game and keep aspects remove stuff from this retold :)
I love how units get skin changes when upgraded in retold so far
Why would they change the VA's? Why can't they use the old one, don't they own the product?
I agree with the part about the dubbing.
I prefer the old voices, I think they fit better, but the problem here is not the voices, but how the scripts were read.
The main thing about a dubbing (for me) is not the voice itself, but whether the voice is capable of conveying the character and the situation, as you pointed out, in Arkantos' part with Agamemnon.
the way the voice actors are reading the script is strange.
I'm glad the IP isn't dead. Even if we dont get a new game, it's at least being carried into the future.
It's a little sad seeing the AI art and voice acting critiques and realizing that it might not be up to the same standard or an improvement to the original in a few keys ways.
Nostalgia will probably make me pick it up eventually anyways though.
I think you're under estimating the intensity of backlash if they asked $30 for a remake of an existing $30 game and the remake having fewer features at launch. That could do more to hurt AoM's launch than a lack of post launch content updates.
As someone who can't wait for this to release and has zero planned intent to play the multiplayer and ONLY lives to play single player campaign - the voice acting doesn't bother me at all. I actually think it's an improvement due effort given to try and improve the authenticity of the accents. I was a big nerd as a kid and knew then that this is not how people from the Mediterranean sound...As good as the original voice acting was for a dramatic flair, I think I will find the authenticity more immersive.
I was so glad there was a mod that brought back the original voice actors compared to the modern remake.
The "Da...I couldn't have said it better, Comrade" killed me
THINGS I COULD CHANGE BY MY OWN IF DEVS DONT DO:
1.- AI generated PORTRAITS XD
2.- Awful acting voices... I REALLY WANT TO MOD THE MAIN CAMPAING WITH THE OLD VERSION (we all have in the original game)
3.- The profile besides the text below is SOOO BIG XD and anoying, if i can take it out i will.
4.- THE OLD AMAZING INTRO :,( i m really going to add it as a launcher... ITS A SIN NOT ADDING THAT!.
THING THEY HAVE TO CHANGE :(
1.- THE AUDIO TRANSICIONS ARE GONE! :O WTF??? The original game already had that! and its an essential part of the game (especially in campaing)
2.- Finally, Some powers need to be balanced, maybe its not just the powers but the entire CIV, because multiplayers will explode if they release it this way...
THANKS FOR READING GUYS, give a like if you agree, and tell me if dont pls.
I'm almost sure there will soon be a mod for this game taht adds in the old voice-lines.
The're still available, as they were accessible in the old (pre Steam) disc versions of the game, and modding htem in I assume is quite the easy modification :D
on top of all your points, for some reason the game gave me 2 options: to play on windowed or to play borderless mode, and because i have 2 screens my mouse would constantly go to the other monitor every time i try to move the camera
Bit sad that they fiddled with the campaign. Reeks of change for change's sake. What's worse is you know a lot of their budget went into that. It only needed a graphical update and perhaps a few tweaks, not all new actors basically redoing it from scratch