My twitch: www.twitch.tv/automatongg My discord: discord.gg/kPjh39KrGs The discord is rather new, therefore i will gradually put good stuff. Join to not miss out! :P
@@cloudshifter Hades and Zeus are literally in the lowest gods in regard to winning rates. The only shitty atlantian right now is oranos Gaia and Kronos are midtier Norse are the strongest right now Seth is the worst of all
BTW, here's ten strategies I'll throw at you to analyze in pro play later: 1) As Mythic Age Greeks, use your colossus units to attack enemy gold mines. And I mean literally attack the gold mines; get the colossi's HP down & have it eat their gold mine! Colossi get 1 HP per 1 gold (or wood) consumed. If you had a colossus stand parked next to their gold, they can't actually kill it because you'll regenerate way faster than they can kill it - I'm talking over 100HP per second healed akin to a titan in the campaign. I'm surprised nobody has used Underworld Passage to teleport a colossus onto the enemy's gold and just eat their gold. 2) Use Gaia Forest to act as a nigh-invincible wall on certain maps with chokepoints. Unless you're Norse & have Forest Fire or are Egypt & have rocs or are Greeks & have colossi, trees are a formidable foe. Once you place down a couple clumps of trees, you can leave 1 gap open to close once you decide to go full eco - say, close it up & then get your Titan & Wonder going? 3) Use Greek Apollo temples to heal naval units. They're obscenely tanky. 4) As Kronos, use fishing boats on the offensive - timeshift a dock next to your enemy's dock or at the naval front line while simultaneously sending fishing boats there. Garrison the dock. Fully garrisoned docks do more DPS than citadels. 5) As Isis, have a forward placed monument to villagers at 99% build completion. Use a God power in the epic early to mid game battle & then finish the monument immediately afterwards so your opponent can't counter with their own. 6) As Egypt, Use Shifting Sands or rocs on Oasis to deploy laser crocodiles & catapults in between the trees & oasis. Given their range nobody can hit them back except catapults. Send them with a priest in case a stray arrow hits them. 7) As Heroic Age Egypt, use Ancestors in the water to get 13 okay arrow ships that can maybe ferry troops around & soak up damage. 8) As anyone on a map with a fordable river crossing, block the crossing with massive naval units like Leviathans. 9) As anyone, rotate barracks-type buildings to act as a more space efficient wall. 10) As Norse, build walls behind raidable villagers to prevent escapes. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Isis monuments only block enemy god powers, you and your allies can still cast. But yes a forward monument empowered by a Pharoah can save your army from those nasty heroic/mythic GPs
@@Fingolfin_the_WardenTheMista did this in the Redbull semis (or quarters?), placing a monument in the enemy base to prevent a greek player from using curse. It was both smart and hilarious!
Genuinely insane stuff. While this will probably matter only in 1% of the games if not less, it's still crazy how small stuff really change things, and makes me think how much more we might be missing.
How the f do you go from making videos of dumb shit I would do in the editor as an 8 year old kid to concise videos on gather efficiencies and things I'd never even thought about or heard lmaooo That was too good man keep this type of content going
:) Cause I am both lol. I'm still an autistic 8 year old kid. Great to see you guys like this more, but it has one big downside: it's much more time consuming. :)
Ok, that's fun to read. Whenever I play Ra I do a fast archaic farm build and age up with my first rain cast. Boosting the dropoff placement is crucial for this as they get upward of 1.5f/s making every little efficiency costly. Thank you!
fellow Ra main, curious about this archaic farm build order. ive been under the assumption that the slower gather rate(w/o rain) and 75 gold cost made it take too long to really bother with it until classical when you can grab ptah and get the farms half price
for norse, a pro is that the cart you use at the start of the game for hunts can be recycled for farms, meaning for your first non-TC farms the deposit is already paid for
@@AutomatonAoM gold you REALLY dont need more than one cart to generate an excess of gold with how well dwarves mine it. As for wood, feel it would come up later in the game, way past the point where you have quite a lot of farms set up. But yeah, sad that carts dedicated to farms essentially become a static object that takes pop cap, leaving their only advantage to be that they are a more compact setup than other civs
true, but you only need the additional granary or ox cart in the corners of your main TC, and to be honest, i build a new ox cart near every gather source anyway. I will usually have about 9 ox carts per norse game, as i always gather each resource from 3 different places to prevent raids from shutting down 1 resource completely. So when i turn to farms, i usually already have enough ox carts.
Good humor, excellent research, knowledge and theory-crafting, sums up to a really well designed and entertaining video. Hope you get the subs you clearly deserve. Keep up the good work!
I went in thinking it won't matter, learned a bunch of things that mattered in the previous versions of the game and then learned that yes, it doesn't matter in retold. Entertained throughout 10/10. Thanks for brining things to their logical conclusions.
It does matter, just... too little to actually see it as the reason you won a game! :) In 1% of games (or a little less) it can make a difference. If you could boost win rate from 50% to 50,5% or 51%, would you do it? :)
@@AutomatonAoM Well, not nobody, but no clue how widespread eco knowledge was. At the very least the competitive community knew that husbandry is a super good tech, I think?
@@AutomatonAoM I was thinking how do you send a group of villagers to build farms around your tc so that they each go to an individual farm and build it rather than all trying to build the same farm. I notice that when I have a group of villagers selected, then shift click a bunch of farms around tc, they all seem to go to the same farm and then get stuck on each other. So, what would be the best way to avoid that?
I have won a few ranked games just by imploding all their farms, idk about other civs but atlanteans get really low on wood when transitioning into farms
If I got the resources I’m doing 9 farms per ox as Norse, the slightly extra walking time makes less of a difference when my entire back line of buildings is 40+ farms or something stupid like that
Another thing that makes Norse farms with ox even worse is just how if an enemy unit attacks the ox it will move away, and you can’t perfectly move it back to the middle of the farms anymore cos when you click it’ll just end up focusing on one farm. Common Norse L and I literally only play them lol
@totallyoriginal9741 you can make it go to a random point out of the farms (to the other side, in a way that must pass in the center) and while it is in the middle use the "stop" command
Thank you for your opinion. I think that superellipse gives almost (not super precisely, but it's close enough) the same time in every direction to reach the perimeter of the farm. After that, farm distance should matter! :)
Oh actually i found a way to place 10 Farms arround the TC and every Vill. is on a short way. You have to place them a couple of pixels off center so you have 3 left, 3 rigth, 2 down and 2 top. it works. Just try it!
I love this so much. I am very curious to hear about when I should uograde my economy upgrades especially now when they changed it. Would love to hear and learn that from a video :)
Meh maybe if there was a treaty mode to just build up economy for 40 minutes like AoE3 this would matter. I cant imagine focusing on something like this when rushing to play out your selected strategy for the game is any good. People have come up with insanely fast attack build orders (Kronos 2 promethean rush etc). Most high elo people ive seen dont even bother with windmill farm formation to begin with, they just spam a bunch of farms around if a battle is taking place somewhere else on the map. Love the analysis though
While true, there are some boomy high elo games, and in any case building 8 farms is less time consuming that building 12! And If you do the windmill, you can always fix it later without worries! :)
It's exactly that kind of thinking, that makes people get stuck. Always strive for improvements, no matter how little they are and try to implement them. They function as small building blocks, piling up atop each other, until you suddenly have a great advantage over your opponent. Plus, I don't think being careful with this placement will take any effort at all, so you should just do it.
it is sorta accurate that the ancient civilization that exists on agriculture on the Nile can have the most optimal farms while the greeks with a more b tier settled civilization have farms but theyre kinda worse and the norse.. well.. they dont even have farms nowadays ;)
To be fair, the 2x2 norse farm setup with the oxcart is the best in the game, as villagers instantaneously drop the food. You won't even be able to see the "carrying food" animation at all. They are 1-2% better than tc side farms
Empowered corner farms are better than granary side farms, but that pharaoh will be switched to the market eventually (or some other place). Empowering the tc feels bad either way, as you're just empowering 8 or 12 farm workers. It's better on a 20 vill gold mine! :)
@@clairespivak2953sadly I didn't analize this. It should be worth a try tough. But if I remember correctly the ox is shorter than the farm's side so no, in 2x3, the 4 distant farms are worse than normal corner farms
@@AutomatonAoM That reply made me chuckle. Good video tho, I enjoyed it and good breakdown of the gather rate issue. I was the one who originally discovered that back in AoT, and seeing this breakdown of how stuff changed was very satisfying. Everything I wanted to see fixed in regards to eco, essentially happened, only the farm change, I did not see coming and the hunt/chicken gather rate comparison also leaves me with mixed feelings. Ra did get buffed to gather chickens faster, too, so that's even more amusing, cause isn't chickens then quite a lot faster than hunt for Ra? Tbf, I've not played a single game of Retold, so I'm a bit out of the loop of the current state. Edit: Nevermind, I remembered it was berries that go a buff! How do berries compare then, tho?
@@Kyomaku i know who you are. You don't know me because I was under a different name, but you helped me recover a forgotten titans mod 3-4 years ago. You went out of your way to search for it to give it to me and I'm still thankful ❤
The fact they don't just make farms be 1x1 and be placed with a drag so you can instantly fill a whole region with farms in every possible spot... It's senseless. Let us carpet the whole place with crops! That, and make the other use of such a tool: ROADS. Roads increase movement speed. Roads are good. Let us make roads and spread farms, man!
I think norse should just bite the bullet and keep doing the old windmill, since having 12 farms, wich 4 are ineficcient, is still more food than the 12 farms wich 4 are really expensive
Put one farm in editor, let Greek villager farm for 10 minutes. Pause at 10 minutes and divide the food you had by 600 (es, 300 food/600= 0,50 food/second). Then do the same with atty and compare
but how does that square up with Ra empowerment? Am I better off letting them farm at an unempowered grannary than having the walking distance on a corner farm on an empowered town center?
Empowered corner farms are better. Granary side farm is 7,7 to 10% better than windmill corner farm, but: - The granary has a cost in building time (albeit for egypt is just 13 resources) - Empowerment is more than double the %! :)
How many villagers are enough tho? I heard a lot that you should keep making them constantly, but then it gets in the way of making military units and stuff.
You should always reach max villagers! Having a little less army is not too much of a problem if your economy has given you more tech, as your army is stronger. Also, you have less army but can continuously produce units from military buildings (so you always stay at max pop!), while the player with lower villager count can't produce as much as you do! :)
I like there is someone like me, who loves this game for many years and was good even if never bothered to learn hotkeys. I am even more handcuffed becouse I play AoM only becouse of Ra. Not even Eggy main, I am simle Ra main. Sadly Ra seems to be underperfoming in Retold. What is your opinion on 5% hack armor of Scarab? I think it's absurdly low. Good content. I like in depth mechanic videos. see ya :)
Woah, I didn't notice that change yet. But I think it might need being considered together with the death damage. Is that increased? If so, you wouldn't want to hit him with melee units regardless. If so, seems they made it super bad vs civ with melee heroes. If they are atty or norse, you can defend them well enough with axeman. If they are Greek just don't pick scarabs 11
@@AutomatonAoM there is definitely more dmg on death and even mor HP overall, besides that just little changes. It just kinda feel weird using melee unit with virtualy 0 hack armor compared to AoM: Titans. For example Behemoth is straight up buffed on many stats + brand new additional passive. Directional Plating (Passive): Has a directional armor reduction of 50% at an angle greater than 60%. Hard to understand thought process of devs here.
Personally, I think farms are busted. While it is nice to have some sort of infinite resource to close out the game. You still need some sort of diminishing return. Wood has a diminishing return from the distance walked. Animals have decay. Gold has traders with distance traveled and a higher risk factor. Farms need some sort of diminishing return. It would be pretty cool to see seasons introduced or some day and night cycle. Each one of these resources players has found a way to exploit mechanics and prevent diminishing returns. Build more lumber mills for overpopulated tree lines. Gather food at a rate that creates irregular idle time in order to prevent decay. The idea of the mechanics are nice and very creative, but flawed when it comes to the gaming community.
@@AutomatonAoM While that is true it is also, in a sense, irrelevant. The 75 wood or gold that the farms cost dosen't compare to the infinite supply of food generated over a games length. Just to throw some numbers out there. It cost 1800 wood to produce 24 farms. This is a late game number so maxed out eco upgrades for farms as the Greeks is .91 I think. That is 1310 food per minute. You could say that farms start building around 10-12 minutes in a standard game. So ideally you would adjust your production of wood to start compensating for this cost. Especially since wood is by far the most natural resource on a map. Often multiplying the natural gold by 5x as much. A more interesting concept is optimally putting a set number of villagers on a natural resource. This prevents such irregular idle time allowing players to better anticipate when to que up the next task and make idling almost nonexistent. It will also have a much slower diminishing return rate and reduce the amount of APM required to manage your eco. All while keeping a steady rate of supply. It also, surprisingly enough, reduce the amount of time it takes to deplete the natural resources on the map. Compared to player that overpopulates each resource. The real question to it though is why don't players do this? So many benefits and yet they go will the safer option by overpopulating in order to defend one area at a time. It's no wonder you don't see many walls being built by top level players so often. To me this is like building extra watchtowers to compensate for a possible early attack without actually scouting for it. While it seems free, it is actually extremely impractical in a time-based format.
@kingsgambit7098 I really like what you say. But in most games, having all villagers on a gold mine (for example) is better. Most times they will try to gold starve you and you will have to build the fortress on second gold mine, or just fight there with the army! :) having longer walk time for some villagers, in this case, is worth it because you don't lose any :)
@AutomatonAoM That is true. Any decent player will try to gold starve you, but I wouldn't be on just 1 gold mine at a time. While you place all of your villagers on gold of a single mine with 6k, let's say, with 16 villagers. I would be on two or three. With the same number of 16, ideally, but divided between them. Meaning that I would potentially be the one to gold starve successfully. Not just because it is harder to raid three separate locations with a single army, but because it is also easier to raid you while you are massed at 1. I would also have a much more steady rate of gold while the 16 you have depletes the mine in 5 minutes. It would take me 10 minutes to mine out two with 8 villagers a piece. Don't get me wrong. I don't think the idea works without walls as that is a lot to defend at once, but I do think that it is potentially better than what everyone else is doing at the moment. With proper defenses and with good scouting, you should have a pretty reasonable advantage. Think of it as a Network or structure. You also have more vision over the map with this method in mind.
@@kingsgambit7098 it sounds pretty reasonable, but in a game it doesn't really traslate into reality. Walling that much so Early is too costly and would put you at a disadvantage, meaning you would lose army fights, or wouldn't be able to keep yourself safe on your hunt, and many other consequences. Pros don't do it because... it just doesn't work sadly. I dont think there has been lack of trying; they often experiment quite a bit. But when you constantly lose while doing that, you just... stop trying to. I would like to see that being done succesfully because i really love optimization, but... reality often gets in the way. One single villager loss and you lose the supposed eco advantage and even more! :)
14:40 I don’t understand, why aren’t we doing this? Didn’t you just explain that it is good and then go on to explain that it is good? What am I missing?
He's saying don't do it on a forward base, close to where the enemy is because they can harass the villagers and waste the time and resources it took to make that shape at a forward town center
You have to build 4 granary for extra 12 farms, while you can just place those farms on other TCs. If you keep 24 farms at only one TC + 4 Granarys you can lose everything for some raids/God Powers, while spliting into 12 per TC will be more safe if some TC get raided you still have the others. With 3 TC you can keep 36 farms, 4 more where you placed the early chicken granary and if you have other granary in safe places where you hunted/ harvested you can place 4 farms each, I don't think the game will last to where you need 50+ farms as you will be collecting Wood and Gold and if you are greek, favor too.
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The discord is rather new, therefore i will gradually put good stuff. Join to not miss out! :P
My opinion? Give me the old ingame building menu back, and remake the short movie intro so the game is finally complete and i can buy it
this guy watched a Spirit of the Law video and asked himself, yes but what if I did that on coke?
This is so much better than any SotL video :D
This is why i play atlantean
I scroll down looking specifically for this type of comment.
Atlanteans just forget about all those silly numbers.
True but they have a lot weaker units in general. Greeks and Norse usually mop the floor with them and Egyptians go on par.
@@cloudshifter Hades and Zeus are literally in the lowest gods in regard to winning rates.
The only shitty atlantian right now is oranos
Gaia and Kronos are midtier
Norse are the strongest right now
Seth is the worst of all
@@cloudshifterthats why u can hero each unit
this is just the autism i needed at 2 AM in the middle of the night, excellent
I’ve got autism form your comment
bro would have lost his mind if saw my tripple layered frams in my last game
3 layers? rookie numbers
BTW, here's ten strategies I'll throw at you to analyze in pro play later:
1) As Mythic Age Greeks, use your colossus units to attack enemy gold mines. And I mean literally attack the gold mines; get the colossi's HP down & have it eat their gold mine! Colossi get 1 HP per 1 gold (or wood) consumed. If you had a colossus stand parked next to their gold, they can't actually kill it because you'll regenerate way faster than they can kill it - I'm talking over 100HP per second healed akin to a titan in the campaign.
I'm surprised nobody has used Underworld Passage to teleport a colossus onto the enemy's gold and just eat their gold.
2) Use Gaia Forest to act as a nigh-invincible wall on certain maps with chokepoints. Unless you're Norse & have Forest Fire or are Egypt & have rocs or are Greeks & have colossi, trees are a formidable foe. Once you place down a couple clumps of trees, you can leave 1 gap open to close once you decide to go full eco - say, close it up & then get your Titan & Wonder going?
3) Use Greek Apollo temples to heal naval units. They're obscenely tanky.
4) As Kronos, use fishing boats on the offensive - timeshift a dock next to your enemy's dock or at the naval front line while simultaneously sending fishing boats there. Garrison the dock. Fully garrisoned docks do more DPS than citadels.
5) As Isis, have a forward placed monument to villagers at 99% build completion. Use a God power in the epic early to mid game battle & then finish the monument immediately afterwards so your opponent can't counter with their own.
6) As Egypt, Use Shifting Sands or rocs on Oasis to deploy laser crocodiles & catapults in between the trees & oasis. Given their range nobody can hit them back except catapults. Send them with a priest in case a stray arrow hits them.
7) As Heroic Age Egypt, use Ancestors in the water to get 13 okay arrow ships that can maybe ferry troops around & soak up damage.
8) As anyone on a map with a fordable river crossing, block the crossing with massive naval units like Leviathans.
9) As anyone, rotate barracks-type buildings to act as a more space efficient wall.
10) As Norse, build walls behind raidable villagers to prevent escapes.
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
If i recall correctly they nerfed regeneration rate for colossus, so might be unviable, but i really like point 9. You might be onto something
Isis monuments only block enemy god powers, you and your allies can still cast. But yes a forward monument empowered by a Pharoah can save your army from those nasty heroic/mythic GPs
@@Fingolfin_the_WardenTheMista did this in the Redbull semis (or quarters?), placing a monument in the enemy base to prevent a greek player from using curse. It was both smart and hilarious!
Thank you :)
How do you rotate barracks buildings?
@@SilverStarGG mouse wheel!
Genuinely insane stuff. While this will probably matter only in 1% of the games if not less, it's still crazy how small stuff really change things, and makes me think how much more we might be missing.
Well, you'll be in for a treat then. I discovered something that is even smaller in scale, but can make a difference between winning and losing... :P
You know that famous quote of how given the opportunity gamers will optimize the fun out of anything?
Norse needs to patrol with the ox card over 6 or 8 farms with the right timing
A video about niche farming mechanics with an unproportionally high production value? Yes please.
Also really liked the humor
How the f do you go from making videos of dumb shit I would do in the editor as an 8 year old kid to concise videos on gather efficiencies and things I'd never even thought about or heard lmaooo
That was too good man keep this type of content going
:) Cause I am both lol. I'm still an autistic 8 year old kid. Great to see you guys like this more, but it has one big downside: it's much more time consuming. :)
Ok, that's fun to read. Whenever I play Ra I do a fast archaic farm build and age up with my first rain cast. Boosting the dropoff placement is crucial for this as they get upward of 1.5f/s making every little efficiency costly. Thank you!
fellow Ra main, curious about this archaic farm build order. ive been under the assumption that the slower gather rate(w/o rain) and 75 gold cost made it take too long to really bother with it until classical when you can grab ptah and get the farms half price
bad build
What is carry capacity?
-me, a gaia one trick
Darn, you are the Spirit of the Law of AoM. We need super elliptical farms now.
Sadly general melagius ruined it all... :(
Well, melagius means lier in Lithuanian language, makes so much sence now
Watching this on 2.3x speed is a fever dream
That was incredible thank you
Mans actually looked at non iðeal/regular shapes. They need more recognition
Great video buddy, cheers, linked to all my friends
As an Egypt player in retold, I usually build granaries before transition to farm because of free wall.
Spirit of the Law? Is that you?
Laughing in Gaia main... But seriously though was great video thank you for teaching this
for norse, a pro is that the cart you use at the start of the game for hunts can be recycled for farms, meaning for your first non-TC farms the deposit is already paid for
Could be true, but i usually see it used for a secondary woodline or gold mine
@@AutomatonAoM gold you REALLY dont need more than one cart to generate an excess of gold with how well dwarves mine it. As for wood, feel it would come up later in the game, way past the point where you have quite a lot of farms set up. But yeah, sad that carts dedicated to farms essentially become a static object that takes pop cap, leaving their only advantage to be that they are a more compact setup than other civs
@@thorveim1174 Ox carts don't take population
@@stardust507 yup
Amazing analysis and knowledge, thanks for sharing! We need more of this!
Very nice and interesting video! Thanks for the time and effort :) (those calculations looked really time consuming!!)
They were, but were partly borrowed from old titans common knowledge!
Ok I feel like we need to summon @SpiritOfTheLaw here and show him this, it's either a future enemy or a lover.
Your content is godlike, thank you so much!
true, but you only need the additional granary or ox cart in the corners of your main TC, and to be honest, i build a new ox cart near every gather source anyway. I will usually have about 9 ox carts per norse game, as i always gather each resource from 3 different places to prevent raids from shutting down 1 resource completely. So when i turn to farms, i usually already have enough ox carts.
Nah we just need actual automaton buffs.
I would be down to make automatons the only viable unit tbh
@@AutomatonAoM new Atlantean major God Leto; all the minor god picks are just different versions of Leto
@@noaccount4 i laughed way too much at this
@@noaccount4 leto with a blonde wig, leto with shorter hair, leto with bald wig
@@oom-3262Leto with eyepatch, Leto with hammer, Leto with lightning bolt
* laughs in ox cart *
Good humor, excellent research, knowledge and theory-crafting, sums up to a really well designed and entertaining video. Hope you get the subs you clearly deserve. Keep up the good work!
This video just awakened my primal urge of plowing the fields.
I went in thinking it won't matter, learned a bunch of things that mattered in the previous versions of the game and then learned that yes, it doesn't matter in retold. Entertained throughout 10/10. Thanks for brining things to their logical conclusions.
It does matter, just... too little to actually see it as the reason you won a game! :) In 1% of games (or a little less) it can make a difference. If you could boost win rate from 50% to 50,5% or 51%, would you do it? :)
I knew that Husbandry was way better upgrade in Titans for farms, I just couldn't prove it
I always thought everybody knew it, now i'm hearing nobody did? :)
@@AutomatonAoM Well, not nobody, but no clue how widespread eco knowledge was. At the very least the competitive community knew that husbandry is a super good tech, I think?
If you got alot of Ox wagons from hunt and collapsed gold mines repurposing them for optimal farming makes sense.
Good video. Would be nice to see the villager logic for building farms.
Hi victor! :) What you mean? like, when would be best to build them?
@@AutomatonAoM I was thinking how do you send a group of villagers to build farms around your tc so that they each go to an individual farm and build it rather than all trying to build the same farm. I notice that when I have a group of villagers selected, then shift click a bunch of farms around tc, they all seem to go to the same farm and then get stuck on each other. So, what would be the best way to avoid that?
Simple symmetrical geometric symbol:
Internet: 🫵😲
I have won a few ranked games just by imploding all their farms, idk about other civs but atlanteans get really low on wood when transitioning into farms
Coming from aoe2 and this is exactly what I needed! Really helpful video :)
If I got the resources I’m doing 9 farms per ox as Norse, the slightly extra walking time makes less of a difference when my entire back line of buildings is 40+ farms or something stupid like that
9 farms means 1 close farm and 8 distant farms, the difference may be more than 10% total. It's a lot
Another thing that makes Norse farms with ox even worse is just how if an enemy unit attacks the ox it will move away, and you can’t perfectly move it back to the middle of the farms anymore cos when you click it’ll just end up focusing on one farm. Common Norse L and I literally only play them lol
@totallyoriginal9741 you can make it go to a random point out of the farms (to the other side, in a way that must pass in the center) and while it is in the middle use the "stop" command
@@AutomatonAoM oh I didn't think of that thanks! Tho usually by the point my ox farms are being attacked I've probably already lost haha
Bro, love this video. Keep it up. Been playing for over a decade and this made me chuckle
I hate internet. Hooked cross is an ancient symbol.
Super-ellipses don't work because they assume a single layer of farms around the TC and that every "diagonal farm" is placed perfectly in the corner.
Thank you for your opinion. I think that superellipse gives almost (not super precisely, but it's close enough) the same time in every direction to reach the perimeter of the farm. After that, farm distance should matter! :)
Fascinating mechanics overview!
very good edit , my man deserves way more then that u should expand to other topics beside it like economics would be great to watch!
bro this was actually awesome, thanks for teaching me so much about the game in such a short time!
Great research, great vid, the SoTL we need, keep it up!
Thanks! Turns out sauron was a very supportive guy all along :)
Incredible. I loved the market video too. Empowering and Fish coming?
Probably? If i can find anything interesting about them!
Its worth noting that farms have a diffrent cost for every civ egypt pays with gold and atlanten is the most expensive in wood
I always opt for a little gap so I can have a perfect square.
I LOVE how you rose back from the dead and hit 26k views! Keep going!
Great video breakdown. a lot to think about… though im lazy and will probs just do corner farms anyways 😊
Me too man, its so hard getting myself to not complete the windmill
Oh actually i found a way to place 10 Farms arround the TC and every Vill. is on a short way. You have to place them a couple of pixels off center so you have 3 left, 3 rigth, 2 down and 2 top. it works. Just try it!
I don't know why I didn't try it. But if true sounds amazing. Thanks for telling me! I will try!
video about age of mythology using advanced geometry was not on my bingo card
I love this so much.
I am very curious to hear about when I should uograde my economy upgrades especially now when they changed it. Would love to hear and learn that from a video :)
I guess Carts make it easier to take Hunt longer till you have the resources to invest in Farms.
Meh maybe if there was a treaty mode to just build up economy for 40 minutes like AoE3 this would matter. I cant imagine focusing on something like this when rushing to play out your selected strategy for the game is any good. People have come up with insanely fast attack build orders (Kronos 2 promethean rush etc). Most high elo people ive seen dont even bother with windmill farm formation to begin with, they just spam a bunch of farms around if a battle is taking place somewhere else on the map. Love the analysis though
While true, there are some boomy high elo games, and in any case building 8 farms is less time consuming that building 12! And If you do the windmill, you can always fix it later without worries! :)
It's exactly that kind of thinking, that makes people get stuck. Always strive for improvements, no matter how little they are and try to implement them. They function as small building blocks, piling up atop each other, until you suddenly have a great advantage over your opponent. Plus, I don't think being careful with this placement will take any effort at all, so you should just do it.
Great video! Awesome insights, thanks for the explanation :)
It ain't much but is honest work😂😂😂
it is sorta accurate that the ancient civilization that exists on agriculture on the Nile can have the most optimal farms while the greeks with a more b tier settled civilization have farms but theyre kinda worse and the norse.. well.. they dont even have farms nowadays ;)
To be fair, the 2x2 norse farm setup with the oxcart is the best in the game, as villagers instantaneously drop the food. You won't even be able to see the "carrying food" animation at all. They are 1-2% better than tc side farms
Spirit of the Automaton
Prostagma
Leye
Okok there are new farm strategies but i won't drop the windimill shape for...personal reasons.
But what if you can empower? What if you can move ox carts? What if you have a lure or a dock for drop-off points?
Have fun Germans!
Empowered corner farms are better than granary side farms, but that pharaoh will be switched to the market eventually (or some other place). Empowering the tc feels bad either way, as you're just empowering 8 or 12 farm workers. It's better on a 20 vill gold mine! :)
How do alternative farm shapes play with ox carts? 2x3, 3x3, maybe even a 7 farm eight shape?
2x2 nors farm is even better than tc side farm. It has 0second walking time. Everything else is suboptimal
@AutomatonAoM obviously a 2x2 is optimal, but is a 2x3 with 1 ox cart more or less efficient than tc corner farms? If its less, how much?
@@clairespivak2953sadly I didn't analize this. It should be worth a try tough. But if I remember correctly the ox is shorter than the farm's side so no, in 2x3, the 4 distant farms are worse than normal corner farms
Great content, keep up the good work!
14:12 You meant a 2x2 squared farm, right?
nah 4x4 oxcart for offroading
Yes! Luckily the video contradicts it
Great content, funny and informative
You are my favorite autistic AOM content creator.
Wait, there are others? Let me befriend them
@@AutomatonAoM That reply made me chuckle. Good video tho, I enjoyed it and good breakdown of the gather rate issue. I was the one who originally discovered that back in AoT, and seeing this breakdown of how stuff changed was very satisfying. Everything I wanted to see fixed in regards to eco, essentially happened, only the farm change, I did not see coming and the hunt/chicken gather rate comparison also leaves me with mixed feelings.
Ra did get buffed to gather chickens faster, too, so that's even more amusing, cause isn't chickens then quite a lot faster than hunt for Ra? Tbf, I've not played a single game of Retold, so I'm a bit out of the loop of the current state.
Edit: Nevermind, I remembered it was berries that go a buff! How do berries compare then, tho?
@@Kyomaku i know who you are. You don't know me because I was under a different name, but you helped me recover a forgotten titans mod 3-4 years ago. You went out of your way to search for it to give it to me and I'm still thankful ❤
@@KyomakuI have mixed feelings on hunt as well . It may be worth analizing
@@AutomatonAoM Everything is worth analyzing, you never know what you learn. :)
atlantean laugh watching this video😂
The fact they don't just make farms be 1x1 and be placed with a drag so you can instantly fill a whole region with farms in every possible spot... It's senseless. Let us carpet the whole place with crops!
That, and make the other use of such a tool: ROADS. Roads increase movement speed. Roads are good. Let us make roads and spread farms, man!
I just click on the TC and Granary for auto farm placement
Excellent work!
I think norse should just bite the bullet and keep doing the old windmill, since having 12 farms, wich 4 are ineficcient, is still more food than the 12 farms wich 4 are really expensive
You can fix the windmill in the late game either way
how to calculate farm gather rate if we include walking? i want to compare greek farming to atlantean
Put one farm in editor, let Greek villager farm for 10 minutes. Pause at 10 minutes and divide the food you had by 600 (es, 300 food/600= 0,50 food/second). Then do the same with atty and compare
but how does that square up with Ra empowerment?
Am I better off letting them farm at an unempowered grannary than having the walking distance on a corner farm on an empowered town center?
Empowered corner farms are better.
Granary side farm is 7,7 to 10% better than windmill corner farm, but:
- The granary has a cost in building time (albeit for egypt is just 13 resources)
- Empowerment is more than double the %!
:)
Oh god, the goats... THE GOATS
is there a tldw besides the ideal farm configuration?
Not really :)
Wow nice content brother
really well done
How many villagers are enough tho? I heard a lot that you should keep making them constantly, but then it gets in the way of making military units and stuff.
You should always reach max villagers! Having a little less army is not too much of a problem if your economy has given you more tech, as your army is stronger. Also, you have less army but can continuously produce units from military buildings (so you always stay at max pop!), while the player with lower villager count can't produce as much as you do! :)
Very nice video !
This is going viral :D
I like there is someone like me, who loves this game for many years and was good even if never bothered to learn hotkeys. I am even more handcuffed becouse I play AoM only becouse of Ra. Not even Eggy main, I am simle Ra main. Sadly Ra seems to be underperfoming in Retold. What is your opinion on 5% hack armor of Scarab? I think it's absurdly low.
Good content. I like in depth mechanic videos. see ya :)
Woah, I didn't notice that change yet. But I think it might need being considered together with the death damage. Is that increased? If so, you wouldn't want to hit him with melee units regardless. If so, seems they made it super bad vs civ with melee heroes. If they are atty or norse, you can defend them well enough with axeman. If they are Greek just don't pick scarabs 11
@@AutomatonAoM there is definitely more dmg on death and even mor HP overall, besides that just little changes. It just kinda feel weird using melee unit with virtualy 0 hack armor compared to AoM: Titans. For example Behemoth is straight up buffed on many stats + brand new additional passive.
Directional Plating (Passive): Has a directional armor reduction of 50% at an angle greater than 60%.
Hard to understand thought process of devs here.
Nice video bro !
Personally, I think farms are busted. While it is nice to have some sort of infinite resource to close out the game. You still need some sort of diminishing return.
Wood has a diminishing return from the distance walked. Animals have decay. Gold has traders with distance traveled and a higher risk factor. Farms need some sort of diminishing return. It would be pretty cool to see seasons introduced or some day and night cycle.
Each one of these resources players has found a way to exploit mechanics and prevent diminishing returns. Build more lumber mills for overpopulated tree lines. Gather food at a rate that creates irregular idle time in order to prevent decay.
The idea of the mechanics are nice and very creative, but flawed when it comes to the gaming community.
Farms have a very high cost. Hunt and chicken are free. You don't have to pay to generate them.
@@AutomatonAoM While that is true it is also, in a sense, irrelevant. The 75 wood or gold that the farms cost dosen't compare to the infinite supply of food generated over a games length. Just to throw some numbers out there. It cost 1800 wood to produce 24 farms. This is a late game number so maxed out eco upgrades for farms as the Greeks is .91 I think. That is 1310 food per minute.
You could say that farms start building around 10-12 minutes in a standard game. So ideally you would adjust your production of wood to start compensating for this cost. Especially since wood is by far the most natural resource on a map. Often multiplying the natural gold by 5x as much.
A more interesting concept is optimally putting a set number of villagers on a natural resource. This prevents such irregular idle time allowing players to better anticipate when to que up the next task and make idling almost nonexistent. It will also have a much slower diminishing return rate and reduce the amount of APM required to manage your eco. All while keeping a steady rate of supply. It also, surprisingly enough, reduce the amount of time it takes to deplete the natural resources on the map. Compared to player that overpopulates each resource.
The real question to it though is why don't players do this? So many benefits and yet they go will the safer option by overpopulating in order to defend one area at a time. It's no wonder you don't see many walls being built by top level players so often. To me this is like building extra watchtowers to compensate for a possible early attack without actually scouting for it. While it seems free, it is actually extremely impractical in a time-based format.
@kingsgambit7098 I really like what you say. But in most games, having all villagers on a gold mine (for example) is better. Most times they will try to gold starve you and you will have to build the fortress on second gold mine, or just fight there with the army! :) having longer walk time for some villagers, in this case, is worth it because you don't lose any :)
@AutomatonAoM That is true. Any decent player will try to gold starve you, but I wouldn't be on just 1 gold mine at a time. While you place all of your villagers on gold of a single mine with 6k, let's say, with 16 villagers. I would be on two or three. With the same number of 16, ideally, but divided between them. Meaning that I would potentially be the one to gold starve successfully. Not just because it is harder to raid three separate locations with a single army, but because it is also easier to raid you while you are massed at 1. I would also have a much more steady rate of gold while the 16 you have depletes the mine in 5 minutes. It would take me 10 minutes to mine out two with 8 villagers a piece.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think the idea works without walls as that is a lot to defend at once, but I do think that it is potentially better than what everyone else is doing at the moment. With proper defenses and with good scouting, you should have a pretty reasonable advantage.
Think of it as a Network or structure. You also have more vision over the map with this method in mind.
@@kingsgambit7098 it sounds pretty reasonable, but in a game it doesn't really traslate into reality. Walling that much so Early is too costly and would put you at a disadvantage, meaning you would lose army fights, or wouldn't be able to keep yourself safe on your hunt, and many other consequences. Pros don't do it because... it just doesn't work sadly. I dont think there has been lack of trying; they often experiment quite a bit. But when you constantly lose while doing that, you just... stop trying to. I would like to see that being done succesfully because i really love optimization, but... reality often gets in the way. One single villager loss and you lose the supposed eco advantage and even more! :)
Norse don t farm they hunt
Tel'por D'shlar!
Albert eistein talent wasted by aom
Aom deserves everything and even more. there is no waste :P
Subbed.
Great video!
14:40 I don’t understand, why aren’t we doing this? Didn’t you just explain that it is good and then go on to explain that it is good? What am I missing?
He's saying don't do it on a forward base, close to where the enemy is because they can harass the villagers and waste the time and resources it took to make that shape at a forward town center
@@yeiltrasreality1627 thanks
You have to build 4 granary for extra 12 farms, while you can just place those farms on other TCs. If you keep 24 farms at only one TC + 4 Granarys you can lose everything for some raids/God Powers, while spliting into 12 per TC will be more safe if some TC get raided you still have the others. With 3 TC you can keep 36 farms, 4 more where you placed the early chicken granary and if you have other granary in safe places where you hunted/ harvested you can place 4 farms each, I don't think the game will last to where you need 50+ farms as you will be collecting Wood and Gold and if you are greek, favor too.
Love this series. Where are you from bro?
Italy
@@AutomatonAoM Ci avevo pensato effettivamente ahhahaha grande continua così
@@guglielmo7191 La pronuncia alla renzi ti aveva acceso la lampadina ahaha
I love it
nice vid
Ra Players sweating trying to further supercharge that eco, by reducing walking times by .02s.
bro your content has peaked. Just get a better micro and you can be the SOTL of AOM.
I think all of your decimal points in the video became as suspiciously long as commas hmm.
Another banger
Very funny video : )
77797 Hirthe Center
r/RTSSlander 😂 I just build a farm & kill oponnent, it's not that deep