H2O Voorhees That's because society is like that. I've been thought of as a pedophile rapist just for being a single male. In H.S. I was labled as Bi for have close relationships with both sexes. Was immediately labled pedophile for being single & homless @ my current residence by thier son & his gf who have to relationship like Drift0r described. Women stays home. while the "Man" only goes to work while his mom & gf clean, cook & do all the house work. If eather he or his gf pass a way thier offspring is screwed. They only enable each other. There is no growth. I've only come across very rarely an interdependent relationship.
H2O Voorhees That's because society is like that. I've been thought of as a pedophile rapist just for being a single male. In H.S. I was labled as Bi for have close relationships with both sexes. Was immediately labled pedophile for being single & homless @ my current residence by thier son & his gf who have to relationship like Drift0r described. Women stays home. while the "Man" only goes to work while his mom & gf clean, cook & do all the house work. If eather he or his gf pass a way thier offspring is screwed. They only enable each other. There is no growth. I've only come across very rarely an interdependent relationship.
By far the biggest problem is when they target _masculinity,_ or _maleness,_ as the problem instead of silly social norms like you discuss. Whenever I see it used, it's taking issue with the *very concept of masculinity.* They say that all men are inherently defective women; they say that we are overly violent and rape-frenzied; they say so much other nonsense that shows they did not have healthy role models and are acting out of bitterness, anger, and hatred. You don't need to have a truck to be a man, but should you be expected to contribute to society? YES. You don't need to be a lumberjack to be a man. Being a technician, salesman, or software developer are good careers. *TL;DR: Please don't fall for the meme that maleness is inherently bad. The positive aspects: strength, courage, creativity, determination, and the drive to improve are what push the world forward.*
letsgoiowa Excellent, well thought out and written comment. Agreed. I made a chain earlier about how Drift0r is not actually talking about Toxic Masculinity, which is a nasty 3rd wave feminist buzzword that makes what is just normal masculinity into a bad thing.
Been disabled since I was 17. The church I wad going to since I was 16 would never help me but as soon as my younger sister got impregnated at age 19 everyone & thier grandmither was helping her out. Same for my next youngest sister go sick @ age 24. my whole family pulled to gether for her. I've had Kidney issues from birth have had to take my meds on my own since age 7 @ age 17 they failed & my family called me lazy for being tiered all the time. Two of my sister pregnancy befor marriage, receive help from both ends parents. Me living with end stage renal failure 2nd transplant & childless; living on my own.
Women like strong, dominant, men with access to status and resources typically gained by strength and dominance. (Dominance doesn't necessarily mean being a school yard bully, Scrooge-like CEO, gangbanger, etc. Strength doesn't necessarily mean physical strength). However, some men will take these traits to extremes, which can be toxic to other individuals and society-at-large. If women didn't like this kind of behavior, whether or not they are willing to admit it or even realize it, then it wouldn't happen. This is not *all* women, but it refers to the majority. At the base level, this is true across cultures/societies, just manifested in different ways. If you think about things from an evolutionary perspective considering the instinctual imperative to produce and raise offspring, it makes sense. Women are ultimately agents in this, not passive victims. Hypergamy, although misused by PUAs, is a real thing. Men seek traits of fertility to reproduce, and women seek traits of power for genes and the means to raise and protect offspring. Both of these types of traits probably have social and biological elements. If a man/woman does not at least "equal" a woman/man in a relationship, then they often will not be satisfied or seek other mates. The arguments over "toxic masculinity" largely ignore "positive" masculinity, and just seek for men to take on feminine traits. That's not conceptually a problem with this, though it probably goes in defiance of human sexual evolution, but you will *rarely* hear feminists talk about positive masculine traits. Anything distinguishable as "masculine" will be toxic because it fuels "the patriarchy." Traits that are not will be seen as genderless. Ironically, the feminist position on hypergamy is it exists because of the patriarchy, but hurts low-status males more than low-status females. Funny how that works (and align with the evolutionary value of women). I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat and say that the concept of "toxic masculinity," though it may not have started this way, has become a way for feminists to subconsciously weed out inferior males for mate selection. I've never known a straight feminist woman that has a stable, long relationship with the type of male they seem to pine for, and I spent years in a very feminist liberal arts graduate school and dated feminists. I'm sure they exist but are a minority. This is why truly toxic manifestations of masculinity will always exist. They are just extremes. I know this is a cynical, cold view of humanity, but there it is. Now how about someone talk about "toxic femininity?"
Looking through my old liked videos i did not expect a video from a gaming channel in 2017 to treat this topic with respect or actually discuss the problem. Shoutout to you, man.
I once had heat stroke as a kid working at my job in a green house. after throwing up and nearly dieing my father encouraged me to go back to work until my mother made him take me home
@@maelstrom_8196 Have you heard about sympathy and compassion? You are exhibiting the very same toxicity, male or female, that is being discouraged and exposed here. Sometimes people get very immersed in something and get carried away. Hell, most people don’t properly hydrate themselves everyday.
I know personally the only time outside of wanting to try to be not emotional as I was worried that I would feel pain if I was emotional was at two funerals of close family members when I was responsible for standing beside my grandmother who listened to people talk about her dead children, I am her oldest grandson so I stood with her for an entire 2 hour closed casket and did not show emotions in front of her simply as an emotional support tool similarly for the second funeral my eldest cousin stood beside my grandmother as well and she avoided showing emotion during the visitation for her own father's open casket as a form of support for my grandmother outside of the formal visitation we had tears but when you have a woman who has lost two of her children beside you and survived WW2 and a stroke you have to be strong not for society but for her.
George Abreu not really an exception that’s why I won’t show much emotion at my parents funerals I will be strong for my siblings and take on the burden so they don’t have too
Great video Drift0r, very good and relevant topic that I believe not many men think of or care to address. Keep up these great philosophical commentaries, some of my favorite videos on TH-cam!
Great video Drift0r, as always your commentaries are a great look at various perspectives on issues. Societal expectations for anyone are both good and bad for their own reasons, but allowing everyone to build their own mold for themselves without huge amounts of criticism and hate is important. I think the world is slowly getting more accepting of individuality and the breaking of social norms that will result in a more balanced society, where everyone can follow their ideals and dreams regardless of their race, gender, or sexual orientation, and bringing attention to many social concepts is a huge step that helps many people understand things more completely. Of course many will disagree and just as many will agree, but please keep doing what you do Drift
It's so nice hearing this being talked about. You could go on ANY social media website and see post after post about societal expectations of woman, but never see any about men. Having something focused around what we have to deal with and how stupid it is is refreshing. Thank you driftor.
George Badass bush well, the victim has to live w/ it the rest of its life, which for them sometimes is worse. i believe there is no overhype regarding your topic
This is a new one to me. Alcohol in general is used as a tool to "forget about your problems" yeah I'll agree to that but I don't think as a society we encourage it in men. As a society yes I've felt that people use alcohol as an escape but again I think it's not only directed at males.
I partially agree with what you're saying because I experienced some of this myself. I was the nerd in high school as well and at 18 I was immediately expected to "man up and get a job". I worked in the restaurant industry for a bit, but while I was in college I decided I wanted to be a Software Engineer. I told my parents this after I changed my major from wanting to be a doctor and going down that path and they were appalled that I even considered a Software Engineer a viable career. On the other hand, though, sometimes not caring as much about things does come in handy. If I worried about everything everyone ever said about me, my life would suck. Just take that into consideration when discussing these topics and evaluate every aspect for its usefulness. In short, I decided to take the good and leave the bad of what is generally expected of men.
I liked this video, Drift0r. Great thoughtful commentary. I was fortunate enough to have my parents and most of my friends accept me as an atypical man who is very emotional and not interested in sports/competition/etc. I think men should be allowed to be different from the norms you talk about, but that they should not let that be an excuse to forget the strength they have. Again, I appreciate all the commentaries recently. Glad to see "old Drift" isn't gone. :)
I'm an RA at a university and we had a presentation about toxic masculinity as a part of our spring training before the semester began. Thankfully this hasn't been an issue, but you can still see its effects. The most common form of toxic masculinity is through those comments like "man up" or "deal with it" since that's what we hear at a young age when we're more impressionable. We're not allowed to show weakness, pain, emotions, anything that seems like a traditionally feminine quality. That's harming to males because it can lead to a variety of emotional problems like anger issues, depression, or just general bottling up of emotions. And getting help for these issues is also seen as negative because it's part of that admitting weakness point addressed in the video. Luckily places to get help specifically for these gender-related issues exist, and it's often found in a women's/gender equity office. I know on my campus our gender issues related office helps with any related issue, from a trans female to a straight cis male.
I'm a counselor in training at a psychology PhD program in the southern united states, and 95% of my work with men concerns unpacking male gender role expectations. Toxic masculinity in the states is a very, very real thing and is bad for everybody. Thank you so, so much for doing a commentary on this incredibly important topic, Drift0r.
This is actually super relevant to a literature essay I have to write tomorrow about the representation of masculinity in society in relation to Macbeth.
I'm lucky, I haven't really faced any of these expectations ever. I'm an emotional guy, a thinker I guess someone could say. Sitting while peeing, never gonna buy a pickup truck and dreaming of finding a girl to share my life with, not to smash her and all her friends too. Maybe this is why I have so many female friends comparing to male friends. I still don't feel like anyone sees me as an unmanly man, which is great. Maybe that's because I'm pretty socially active and somewhat athletic, not muscular though. I don't really know why I felt like writing this comment, mostly just cause I wanted to think out loud I guess. Hard to believe anyone reading this still but if there is someone, thank you. Made a 17yo Finnish guy's day. :)
Wow. Great, interesting and relatable comment. Hard to believe you're Finish as your English is better than most people I know, and I live in the UK. I'm glad to have made a difference to someone.
Arttu Vesterinen Hi, I feel exactly the same way as you regarding the not feeling all these expectations part, however, I refuse to believe that most guys want to smash all the girls they see, even if you wrote it with a bit of humour. Maybe it's because we're both from nordic countries ;) Have a good day, Norwegian 17yo
As a man, I expect someone to be strong, physically, emotionally, and intellectually, and as such, this applies to everyone I meet, regardless of gender, race, etc.
My Dad taught me to be strong, but he also showed me how to be compassionate and emotionally stable. Tbh it was my mom that told me that "real men don't cry" and/or other bullshit like that. Glad to see an honest breakdown of this, so many people misconstrue this into just being a man is toxic.
My mom is a psychologist so I never really experienced those issues as a kid. However, as a teenager, I have started to work out more to look more "manly" and not be scrawny, more so for other people than myself.
About that article - psychologists know, that desciption of person's "ideal partner" and their real life chosen partners are around 180 degrees opposite.
Pick up trucks offer utility like:Offroad capibility and Towing capacity, but to get a pickup truck because you think it makes you more "Manly" is what annoys people.
The ideal man must be a man, be swift as the coursing river, have all the force of a great typhoon, have all the strength of a raging fire, and be mysterious as the dark side of the moon.
Telling a man to "man up" or expecting a man to provide for his family is not toxic or hurtful. Men should work for their families. I'm not saying women cannot work, but if i ever have a wife and she doesn't want to work I will for here
Drift0r, I highly agree with most of this. My dad has this same mindset and it has caused some trouble between me and him, so seeing someone finally talk about this has not only relieved me, but it also taught me something new as well! Keep up the good work Drift.
Appreciate these videos, man. I think you hit some real issues square on and people should be educated on them. I hope you keep them coming and don't get discouraged!
This is so true, I’m in a happy relationship with my girlfriend and she loves me because unlike her exes she wants a guy who isn’t afraid to talk about feelings and take her to the Tea House and get bubble tea. Emotions make guys more desirable because it shows that they’re not afraid to be themselves instead of regurgitating stereotypes that are decades old
In this generation, the emphasis on bringing women to the same level as men has been something that has greatly overshadowed the well being of the opposite gender. In England, I feel like we've hit the point where equality may have been achieved legally, but now, we have the problem that because we've put so much emphasis on our female counter parts, the concept of discussing our problems or trying to say how we feel is brushes to the side or is dismissed with something like 'Mansplaining' or some statistic is thrown in about how a woman has it worse. That's not the point. We need to get this equal coverage to everyone. There's a reason why suicide is the biggest killer of men under 30.
Very well put, as always Drift0r. I think the moment that opened my eyes to this bullshit was my parent's divorce and how my dad handled that. I struggled with my mental health a lot and my dad constantly didn't get it, and just told me to be strong, to man up, when I physically couldn't. Without going into too much detail, the separation got very out of hand, and I remember thinking that if he was the ideal of a man, I don't want to be that. I can fight and support and contribute for myself, but I'm completely comfortable having deep conversations with people about intimate stuff, and I'd rather have that then bragging about how many chicks I've slept with or something equally trivial. I hate to stereotype and sound like a complete liberal lunatic, but a lot of it comes from the pressures of the right wing, even if there's good and bad people on both sides of the spectrum.
You should make a sequel to this. Talk about the intersections toxic masculinity has with other modern day issues. Like terrorism, racism, or sexual orientation. Because masculinity is present across most cultures and communities.
I never even thought of how male gender roles can negatively effect female gender roles like the way you've described. That's a very interesting point to bring up.
Never really had any of these expectations forced upon me, granted I grew up with my grandparents so I pretty much decided on my own morals. Granted I'm not a emotional guy (probably even less emotional than your typical guy) but that isn't me suppressing my emotions that is just who I am. Decide who you are, don't let others tell you who you are.
Great video I have a situation like this with my friend he try's to act like u said but he doesn't have to be like that round me I just feel like it's pressure from his family and friends so thank for helping me see more of the picture 👍
Excellent Essay, Drift0r. Very well done, sophisticated... Is there such a thing as toxic femininity? If so what is it? How does it manifest itself? I hope you find the question interesting enough to do a video on it.
You provide a much truer and centrist view of "toxic masculinity." Personally, I'd come up with a different term (unreal expectations, perhaps), since it's been hijacked by radical feminists, but you're certainly not wrong in the points you bring up. True masculinity is a warm kind of strength, steadfast, moral resolve in the face of adversity or challenge (when it's a true problem, not one fabricated by society), emotional stability, etc. Frequently men become the breadwinners of the household because women are biologically more likely to want to be primary caretakers. It's not that men can't be caretakers, but men are less likely to be inclined to be primary caretaker. There are many other points, but this comment would be many, many paragraphs otherwise. But, good on you, Drift, for talking about this. You always provide a good, central view.
Rewatching this in 2024, way after it came out, I think the pandemic has created a whole new breed of toxic masculinity around mental health issues. This whole “men can’t be depressed, that’s only for women” is REAL and is an actual attitude espoused by actual doctors in the field…
I need to show this to my cross country coach. Because he refused to lose his region title our coach made ran a guy on a broken leg, a torn IT band (me), and a strained ligament in one guys back.
I do think it helps men when people treat them as 'men'. It might be harsh in the short term but in the long run it makes us better human beings capable of being good men. You might call it toxic, but it has benefited me and many men around the world.
I will admit the article was quite silly, but our society has impossible expectations of both genders. It is to establish a mentality of constant improvement. "Men" who are spoiled, babied, and coddled get nowhere in life on their own.
Neat commentary. The ideal of Manliness is something that intrigues me. Have you ever seen any content from The Art of Manliness website? I'd be interested to know what you think of it. I haven't read every bit of their content by any means, but the ideal set forth there seems to me much healthier than the toxic one described in the video.
Good talk Drift0r. Was trying to explain this to my friend trying to give me relationship advice. Saying "I need to learn to be gentle as a MAN with a girlfriend & not be so blunt. That I could make her cry. Because girls will be more likly to cry'hurt' hearing truths. I want a woman who doesn't need to be babied. Tierd of societies idea that the man always has to bear all the wight in a relationship. I don't want to be a partner that enables weakness out of stigma that women need a man to survive. I want someone who mutually respects me & not looking for a means to an end (THE BBD). Too many dependent relationships & not enough interdependent. Hear too meny men who want to make an Empire for their family but won't take the time to teach their family skills to rule it. They see themselves just as providers not as nurturers. Then when the pass their "empire" collapses. Seen this countless time in Christian families where their husband's pass and the wife is stuck with multiple kids, a mortgage & no career yet still trying to keep the same lavish life style.
I really enjoyed the video because I am a teen who suffers from depression and struggle with girls and my friends tell me to act like a duche bag to then sometimes and not to listen as much. but I try to help them. it doesn't get me anywhere but lately luckily it has been getting better with the stigmas from what I can see
The video is great, and I would love to see a video on perspective. On this topic, from my stance men dont have to fill a certain roll, at least at my highschool and friends, but however society (mainly media in my opinion) says other wise. As adults I think more of your opinions and/ or ideas stem from media because of the decrease in social contact, compared to the social life of a highschool/ college student. Just food for thought.
Drift0r there's a book that might interest You, it's called "Self-Made Man" by Norah Vincent and it's a report of a female journalist that lived as a man for over a year and entered several men-only communities (from a bowling club to a salesmen agency) in order to see what men really think and how they behave when they are in all-male company. It offers an interesting perspective on masculinity and I think You'll like it.
The problem is with the term "Toxic masculinity" as in masculinity is somehow bad. The problem is that there's this belief that men can't be vulnerable and emotional. We should be able to be all of those things but it should be perfectly OK to be super masculine on top of that.
@Drift0r - Any thoughts on society treating men with traditional masculine features differently. I am in academia and have a bodybuilder physique. I've noticed being treated and looked at differently in the academic setting because of physical features before someone experiences my intellectual capabilities. This tends to go away after a period of time, but is what I would consider an unnecessary hurdle.
![[UNCUT] เก็บ "สจ.โต้ง" เอี่ยวมาเฟีย รู้ตัวคนบงการ ก่อนสั่งลั่นไก I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 13 ธ.ค.67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/o-J_p62D40w/mqdefault.jpg)
6:28
I'm sorry what?
Grandmother??😕😂
That went from 0-100 so fast
H2O Voorhees what about horse?
LOL
H2O Voorhees That's because society is like that. I've been thought of as a pedophile rapist just for being a single male. In H.S. I was labled as Bi for have close relationships with both sexes. Was immediately labled pedophile for being single & homless @ my current residence by thier son & his gf who have to relationship like Drift0r described. Women stays home. while the "Man" only goes to work while his mom & gf clean, cook & do all the house work. If eather he or his gf pass a way thier offspring is screwed. They only enable each other. There is no growth. I've only come across very rarely an interdependent relationship.
H2O Voorhees That's because society is like that. I've been thought of as a pedophile rapist just for being a single male. In H.S. I was labled as Bi for have close relationships with both sexes. Was immediately labled pedophile for being single & homless @ my current residence by thier son & his gf who have to relationship like Drift0r described. Women stays home. while the "Man" only goes to work while his mom & gf clean, cook & do all the house work. If eather he or his gf pass a way thier offspring is screwed. They only enable each other. There is no growth. I've only come across very
rarely an interdependent relationship.
623pieman Hey dude got to consider the Muslims.
oh my god this is gonna be the greatest comment section ever
kakyoin MILF HUNTER hey i dont like you, lets battle
\.ArmadEz./ What kind of battle?
An internet battle
quit hunting milfs kekboi
I see you everywhere
*opens a bag of popcorn*
"Made in God's image." So.... God drives a pickup truck?
He would also certainly carry a woman from a burning building. Why he would allow that fire to occur in the first place is another question.
You're god damn right.
Ever notice how everyone's God just so happens to agree with them all the time?
Who Cares About User Names? 1 obviously
Yes I do
By far the biggest problem is when they target _masculinity,_ or _maleness,_ as the problem instead of silly social norms like you discuss. Whenever I see it used, it's taking issue with the *very concept of masculinity.* They say that all men are inherently defective women; they say that we are overly violent and rape-frenzied; they say so much other nonsense that shows they did not have healthy role models and are acting out of bitterness, anger, and hatred.
You don't need to have a truck to be a man, but should you be expected to contribute to society? YES.
You don't need to be a lumberjack to be a man. Being a technician, salesman, or software developer are good careers.
*TL;DR: Please don't fall for the meme that maleness is inherently bad. The positive aspects: strength, courage, creativity, determination, and the drive to improve are what push the world forward.*
letsgoiowa Excellent, well thought out and written comment. Agreed. I made a chain earlier about how Drift0r is not actually talking about Toxic Masculinity, which is a nasty 3rd wave feminist buzzword that makes what is just normal masculinity into a bad thing.
letsgoiowa all the traits you put at the end also apply to women, I hope you realize.
letsgoiowa all the traits you put at the end also apply to women, I hope you realize.
NuclearSharpShooter He didnt say they couldnt.
this dude got the right idea
you're a smart guy, Drift. I hope nothing but the best for your future mate
Been disabled since I was 17. The church I wad going to since I was 16 would never help me but as soon as my younger sister got impregnated at age 19 everyone & thier grandmither was helping her out. Same for my next youngest sister go sick @ age 24. my whole family pulled to gether for her. I've had Kidney issues from birth have had to take my meds on my own since age 7 @ age 17 they failed & my family called me lazy for being tiered all the time. Two of my sister pregnancy befor marriage, receive help from both ends parents. Me living with end stage renal failure 2nd transplant & childless; living on my own.
Women like strong, dominant, men with access to status and resources typically gained by strength and dominance. (Dominance doesn't necessarily mean being a school yard bully, Scrooge-like CEO, gangbanger, etc. Strength doesn't necessarily mean physical strength). However, some men will take these traits to extremes, which can be toxic to other individuals and society-at-large. If women didn't like this kind of behavior, whether or not they are willing to admit it or even realize it, then it wouldn't happen. This is not *all* women, but it refers to the majority. At the base level, this is true across cultures/societies, just manifested in different ways. If you think about things from an evolutionary perspective considering the instinctual imperative to produce and raise offspring, it makes sense. Women are ultimately agents in this, not passive victims. Hypergamy, although misused by PUAs, is a real thing. Men seek traits of fertility to reproduce, and women seek traits of power for genes and the means to raise and protect offspring. Both of these types of traits probably have social and biological elements. If a man/woman does not at least "equal" a woman/man in a relationship, then they often will not be satisfied or seek other mates.
The arguments over "toxic masculinity" largely ignore "positive" masculinity, and just seek for men to take on feminine traits. That's not conceptually a problem with this, though it probably goes in defiance of human sexual evolution, but you will *rarely* hear feminists talk about positive masculine traits. Anything distinguishable as "masculine" will be toxic because it fuels "the patriarchy." Traits that are not will be seen as genderless. Ironically, the feminist position on hypergamy is it exists because of the patriarchy, but hurts low-status males more than low-status females. Funny how that works (and align with the evolutionary value of women). I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat and say that the concept of "toxic masculinity," though it may not have started this way, has become a way for feminists to subconsciously weed out inferior males for mate selection. I've never known a straight feminist woman that has a stable, long relationship with the type of male they seem to pine for, and I spent years in a very feminist liberal arts graduate school and dated feminists. I'm sure they exist but are a minority. This is why truly toxic manifestations of masculinity will always exist. They are just extremes.
I know this is a cynical, cold view of humanity, but there it is. Now how about someone talk about "toxic femininity?"
Something worst than TH-cam comments? Thats possible?
Smasher bruh Ik😂😂
Twitch chat!
Smasher I had no idea either.
GameFAQ
Smasher this one
What people still fail to realise is that WE ARE HUMAN.
Looking through my old liked videos i did not expect a video from a gaming channel in 2017 to treat this topic with respect or actually discuss the problem. Shoutout to you, man.
Thoughtful and relatable commentary as always Drift0r. Thanks for sharing your views.
I once had heat stroke as a kid working at my job in a green house. after throwing up and nearly dieing my father encouraged me to go back to work until my mother made him take me home
have you heard about drinking water when its hot
@@maelstrom_8196 Have you heard about sympathy and compassion? You are exhibiting the very same toxicity, male or female, that is being discouraged and exposed here. Sometimes people get very immersed in something and get carried away. Hell, most people don’t properly hydrate themselves everyday.
@@FannyPackMan100 but, do you *MOISTURISE*
I know personally the only time outside of wanting to try to be not emotional as I was worried that I would feel pain if I was emotional was at two funerals of close family members when I was responsible for standing beside my grandmother who listened to people talk about her dead children, I am her oldest grandson so I stood with her for an entire 2 hour closed casket and did not show emotions in front of her simply as an emotional support tool similarly for the second funeral my eldest cousin stood beside my grandmother as well and she avoided showing emotion during the visitation for her own father's open casket as a form of support for my grandmother outside of the formal visitation we had tears but when you have a woman who has lost two of her children beside you and survived WW2 and a stroke you have to be strong not for society but for her.
U1TR4F0RCE That was a good example of an exception. Incredible story.
George Abreu not really an exception that’s why I won’t show much emotion at my parents funerals I will be strong for my siblings and take on the burden so they don’t have too
Great video Drift0r, very good and relevant topic that I believe not many men think of or care to address. Keep up these great philosophical commentaries, some of my favorite videos on TH-cam!
Great video Drift0r, as always your commentaries are a great look at various perspectives on issues. Societal expectations for anyone are both good and bad for their own reasons, but allowing everyone to build their own mold for themselves without huge amounts of criticism and hate is important. I think the world is slowly getting more accepting of individuality and the breaking of social norms that will result in a more balanced society, where everyone can follow their ideals and dreams regardless of their race, gender, or sexual orientation, and bringing attention to many social concepts is a huge step that helps many people understand things more completely. Of course many will disagree and just as many will agree, but please keep doing what you do Drift
Well said. I appreciate you tackling this topic
It's so nice hearing this being talked about. You could go on ANY social media website and see post after post about societal expectations of woman, but never see any about men. Having something focused around what we have to deal with and how stupid it is is refreshing. Thank you driftor.
Its funny how its expected to be manly to drink beer and heavy alcohol to get rid of your problems
Funny and mostly stupid.
Yeah, it's manly to hide from your problems rather than face them head on.
George Badass bush well, the victim has to live w/ it the rest of its life, which for them sometimes is worse. i believe there is no overhype regarding your topic
This is a new one to me. Alcohol in general is used as a tool to "forget about your problems" yeah I'll agree to that but I don't think as a society we encourage it in men. As a society yes I've felt that people use alcohol as an escape but again I think it's not only directed at males.
alcohol lowers testoterone.. the irony ^^
I partially agree with what you're saying because I experienced some of this myself. I was the nerd in high school as well and at 18 I was immediately expected to "man up and get a job". I worked in the restaurant industry for a bit, but while I was in college I decided I wanted to be a Software Engineer. I told my parents this after I changed my major from wanting to be a doctor and going down that path and they were appalled that I even considered a Software Engineer a viable career. On the other hand, though, sometimes not caring as much about things does come in handy. If I worried about everything everyone ever said about me, my life would suck. Just take that into consideration when discussing these topics and evaluate every aspect for its usefulness. In short, I decided to take the good and leave the bad of what is generally expected of men.
I liked this video, Drift0r. Great thoughtful commentary. I was fortunate enough to have my parents and most of my friends accept me as an atypical man who is very emotional and not interested in sports/competition/etc. I think men should be allowed to be different from the norms you talk about, but that they should not let that be an excuse to forget the strength they have. Again, I appreciate all the commentaries recently. Glad to see "old Drift" isn't gone. :)
I'm an RA at a university and we had a presentation about toxic masculinity as a part of our spring training before the semester began. Thankfully this hasn't been an issue, but you can still see its effects. The most common form of toxic masculinity is through those comments like "man up" or "deal with it" since that's what we hear at a young age when we're more impressionable. We're not allowed to show weakness, pain, emotions, anything that seems like a traditionally feminine quality. That's harming to males because it can lead to a variety of emotional problems like anger issues, depression, or just general bottling up of emotions. And getting help for these issues is also seen as negative because it's part of that admitting weakness point addressed in the video. Luckily places to get help specifically for these gender-related issues exist, and it's often found in a women's/gender equity office. I know on my campus our gender issues related office helps with any related issue, from a trans female to a straight cis male.
Great video Drift0r! Your commentaries are awesome!
I'm a counselor in training at a psychology PhD program in the southern united states, and 95% of my work with men concerns unpacking male gender role expectations. Toxic masculinity in the states is a very, very real thing and is bad for everybody. Thank you so, so much for doing a commentary on this incredibly important topic, Drift0r.
This is actually super relevant to a literature essay I have to write tomorrow about the representation of masculinity in society in relation to Macbeth.
God bless ur soul driftor. me and my brother was told to be a men so many times that he died in Iraq. I would have to but I got lucky
I'm lucky, I haven't really faced any of these expectations ever. I'm an emotional guy, a thinker I guess someone could say. Sitting while peeing, never gonna buy a pickup truck and dreaming of finding a girl to share my life with, not to smash her and all her friends too.
Maybe this is why I have so many female friends comparing to male friends. I still don't feel like anyone sees me as an unmanly man, which is great. Maybe that's because I'm pretty socially active and somewhat athletic, not muscular though.
I don't really know why I felt like writing this comment, mostly just cause I wanted to think out loud I guess. Hard to believe anyone reading this still but if there is someone, thank you. Made a 17yo Finnish guy's day. :)
Wow. Great, interesting and relatable comment. Hard to believe you're Finish as your English is better than most people I know, and I live in the UK. I'm glad to have made a difference to someone.
Arttu Vesterinen Hi, I feel exactly the same way as you regarding the not feeling all these expectations part, however, I refuse to believe that most guys want to smash all the girls they see, even if you wrote it with a bit of humour. Maybe it's because we're both from nordic countries ;)
Have a good day,
Norwegian 17yo
You have lots of female "friends" huh? I'd be careful if I were you. You might turn into a white knight errand boy.
Sitting while pissing is a European thing. Not sure how standing up and pissing is so manly. Just these dumb stereotypes that no one questions.
The only reason I can see someone drawing that conclusion is because only men can pee standing up and not have issues
I love that these videos are coming back, love em
As a man, I expect someone to be strong, physically, emotionally, and intellectually, and as such, this applies to everyone I meet, regardless of gender, race, etc.
Drift0r I'm falling in love with your commentaries even more.
My Dad taught me to be strong, but he also showed me how to be compassionate and emotionally stable. Tbh it was my mom that told me that "real men don't cry" and/or other bullshit like that.
Glad to see an honest breakdown of this, so many people misconstrue this into just being a man is toxic.
My mom is a psychologist so I never really experienced those issues as a kid. However, as a teenager, I have started to work out more to look more "manly" and not be scrawny, more so for other people than myself.
About that article - psychologists know, that desciption of person's "ideal partner" and their real life chosen partners are around 180 degrees opposite.
Something I would not expect from you Drift. But that's the nice thing about you.
Pickup trucks honestly annoy me so much. Guess I'm not a "man"
Alex Thomas pickup trucks just make me think of incest, I don't know why
Pick up trucks offer utility like:Offroad capibility and Towing capacity, but to get a pickup truck because you think it makes you more "Manly" is what annoys people.
For the most part I have no use for one. Soon I'm gonna be a teacher and can more easily drive around in a better gas mileage car.
Yeah, I completely agree with getting one for utility but it just drives me nuts when people get one simply to look tough and manly as you stated
Who needs pickup trucks when you have Jeeps (Comanches are a fine line)?
I love these Drift0r commentaries!
The ideal man must be a man, be swift as the coursing river, have all the force of a great typhoon, have all the strength of a raging fire, and be mysterious as the dark side of the moon.
+Drift0r I LOVE your commentaries !!! Keep 'em coming !
Telling a man to "man up" or expecting a man to provide for his family is not toxic or hurtful. Men should work for their families. I'm not saying women cannot work, but if i ever have a wife and she doesn't want to work I will for here
I do so appreciate these kind of videos. Thank you for putting it together, Drift0r.
good video driftor. being a hockey player I recognize this issues as i was always on the "outside" bcuz i wasnt some big , manly fuckboi lmao
Drift0r, I highly agree with most of this. My dad has this same mindset and it has caused some trouble between me and him, so seeing someone finally talk about this has not only relieved me, but it also taught me something new as well! Keep up the good work Drift.
Nobody talks about Toxic Feminism
Appreciate these videos, man. I think you hit some real issues square on and people should be educated on them. I hope you keep them coming and don't get discouraged!
I love your philosophical videos. Lots of food for thought.
thanks for continuing these commentaries
This is so true, I’m in a happy relationship with my girlfriend and she loves me because unlike her exes she wants a guy who isn’t afraid to talk about feelings and take her to the Tea House and get bubble tea. Emotions make guys more desirable because it shows that they’re not afraid to be themselves instead of regurgitating stereotypes that are decades old
Drift0r you are my favorite youtuber
Keep up the good work you make the best videos ever and you're such a smart person
In this generation, the emphasis on bringing women to the same level as men has been something that has greatly overshadowed the well being of the opposite gender. In England, I feel like we've hit the point where equality may have been achieved legally, but now, we have the problem that because we've put so much emphasis on our female counter parts, the concept of discussing our problems or trying to say how we feel is brushes to the side or is dismissed with something like 'Mansplaining' or some statistic is thrown in about how a woman has it worse. That's not the point. We need to get this equal coverage to everyone. There's a reason why suicide is the biggest killer of men under 30.
Very well put, as always Drift0r. I think the moment that opened my eyes to this bullshit was my parent's divorce and how my dad handled that. I struggled with my mental health a lot and my dad constantly didn't get it, and just told me to be strong, to man up, when I physically couldn't. Without going into too much detail, the separation got very out of hand, and I remember thinking that if he was the ideal of a man, I don't want to be that. I can fight and support and contribute for myself, but I'm completely comfortable having deep conversations with people about intimate stuff, and I'd rather have that then bragging about how many chicks I've slept with or something equally trivial. I hate to stereotype and sound like a complete liberal lunatic, but a lot of it comes from the pressures of the right wing, even if there's good and bad people on both sides of the spectrum.
You should make a sequel to this. Talk about the intersections toxic masculinity has with other modern day issues. Like terrorism, racism, or sexual orientation. Because masculinity is present across most cultures and communities.
thx drift0r for the grate vids . Your one of my favourite youtubers.
Always keeping it real. Love you for that Drift0r.
I never even thought of how male gender roles can negatively effect female gender roles like the way you've described. That's a very interesting point to bring up.
This was an awesome vid Drift0r, thanks.
Haven't even watched it yet. Just sae philosophical Drift0r and liked it.
Never really had any of these expectations forced upon me, granted I grew up with my grandparents so I pretty much decided on my own morals. Granted I'm not a emotional guy (probably even less emotional than your typical guy) but that isn't me suppressing my emotions that is just who I am.
Decide who you are, don't let others tell you who you are.
At first I thought the video was just a regular vid but then I realized how much I could relate to it
Great video I have a situation like this with my friend he try's to act like u said but he doesn't have to be like that round me I just feel like it's pressure from his family and friends so thank for helping me see more of the picture 👍
Excellent Essay, Drift0r. Very well done, sophisticated... Is there such a thing as toxic femininity? If so what is it? How does it manifest itself? I hope you find the question interesting enough to do a video on it.
Driftor for President
Driftor, please do more videos like this
You have an amazing channel. You are amazing. Keep it up!
You provide a much truer and centrist view of "toxic masculinity." Personally, I'd come up with a different term (unreal expectations, perhaps), since it's been hijacked by radical feminists, but you're certainly not wrong in the points you bring up.
True masculinity is a warm kind of strength, steadfast, moral resolve in the face of adversity or challenge (when it's a true problem, not one fabricated by society), emotional stability, etc. Frequently men become the breadwinners of the household because women are biologically more likely to want to be primary caretakers. It's not that men can't be caretakers, but men are less likely to be inclined to be primary caretaker.
There are many other points, but this comment would be many, many paragraphs otherwise. But, good on you, Drift, for talking about this. You always provide a good, central view.
Rewatching this in 2024, way after it came out, I think the pandemic has created a whole new breed of toxic masculinity around mental health issues. This whole “men can’t be depressed, that’s only for women” is REAL and is an actual attitude espoused by actual doctors in the field…
i love these types of serious vids
Hats of to you brother. Fantastic video.
Nice subtle shout-out to Erik from Comment Ettiquite near the beginning.
To be honest ive never really been exposed to any of the stuff drif0r mentioned.
Great commentary, I think that if your commentaries didn't have cod gameplay they would go viral
well done, do you have any kind go formal education (degree in English literacy?)
Your team mate's airstrike at 9:11 though. Also lol happens to be at that time hahahaah
I need to show this to my cross country coach. Because he refused to lose his region title our coach made ran a guy on a broken leg, a torn IT band (me), and a strained ligament in one guys back.
10:09 I love when you reread your script cuz I never know if it's on purpose or not :)
I have to wonder how many people actually have a strong belief in the necessity of the qualities Drift0r described.
I do think it helps men when people treat them as 'men'. It might be harsh in the short term but in the long run it makes us better human beings capable of being good men. You might call it toxic, but it has benefited me and many men around the world.
I will admit the article was quite silly, but our society has impossible expectations of both genders. It is to establish a mentality of constant improvement. "Men" who are spoiled, babied, and coddled get nowhere in life on their own.
Very thoughtful and funny. As I get older I value intelligence more so than strength.
Neat commentary. The ideal of Manliness is something that intrigues me. Have you ever seen any content from The Art of Manliness website? I'd be interested to know what you think of it. I haven't read every bit of their content by any means, but the ideal set forth there seems to me much healthier than the toxic one described in the video.
Good talk Drift0r. Was trying to explain this to my friend trying to give me relationship advice. Saying "I need to learn to be gentle as a MAN with a girlfriend & not be so blunt. That I could make her cry. Because girls will be more likly to cry'hurt' hearing truths. I want a woman who doesn't need to be babied. Tierd of societies idea that the man always has to bear all the wight in a relationship. I don't want to be a partner that enables weakness out of stigma that women need a man to survive. I want someone who mutually respects me & not looking for a means to an end (THE BBD). Too many dependent relationships & not enough interdependent. Hear too meny men who want to make an Empire for their family but won't take the time to teach their family skills to rule it. They see themselves just as providers not as nurturers. Then when the pass their "empire" collapses. Seen this countless time in Christian families where their husband's pass and the wife is stuck with multiple kids, a mortgage & no career yet still trying to keep the same lavish life style.
You took one of Eric's commenting courses?
A lot of these points ( what drifter said men are expected to do) are right to an extent.
I don’t agree with everything you stay, but I respect your right to say it
I really enjoyed the video because I am a teen who suffers from depression and struggle with girls and my friends tell me to act like a duche bag to then sometimes and not to listen as much. but I try to help them. it doesn't get me anywhere but lately luckily it has been getting better with the stigmas from what I can see
THE INTERNET COMMENT ETIQUETTE REFERENCE nice one driftor
Stay woke Drift0r, nice commentary
The video is great, and I would love to see a video on perspective. On this topic, from my stance men dont have to fill a certain roll, at least at my highschool and friends, but however society (mainly media in my opinion) says other wise. As adults I think more of your opinions and/ or ideas stem from media because of the decrease in social contact, compared to the social life of a highschool/ college student. Just food for thought.
Love the philosophical videos
Love the vids keep them up
This is an excellent video Drift! Sorry about the stupid and insulting comments down here
I Grew up in the Netherlands and have never been remotely faced with anny of these issues... shows me again that America is not so great after all
RobbertMoonsz I live in the U.S and haven't faced these issues either
RobbertMoonsz Too bad the Frisians are suppressed to hell in your country.
Drift0r your commentaries turn me on please keep making them
good luck with this commentary topic actually go further and making a difference honestly
Are you channeling Internet Comment Etiquette With Erik just a tad with that tweet?
Drift0r there's a book that might interest You, it's called "Self-Made Man" by Norah Vincent and it's a report of a female journalist that lived as a man for over a year and entered several men-only communities (from a bowling club to a salesmen agency) in order to see what men really think and how they behave when they are in all-male company. It offers an interesting perspective on masculinity and I think You'll like it.
Did the footage loop for anyone else about halfway through
The problem is with the term "Toxic masculinity" as in masculinity is somehow bad. The problem is that there's this belief that men can't be vulnerable and emotional. We should be able to be all of those things but it should be perfectly OK to be super masculine on top of that.
@Drift0r - Any thoughts on society treating men with traditional masculine features differently. I am in academia and have a bodybuilder physique. I've noticed being treated and looked at differently in the academic setting because of physical features before someone experiences my intellectual capabilities. This tends to go away after a period of time, but is what I would consider an unnecessary hurdle.
neat vid drift!
"We cannot accept defeat in conversation"
hmm, reminds me of a certain streaming partner
driftor is my mans