Q&A It seems that the US and Germany were the only WW II navies that embraced the submarine as an independent raider. Is it accurate to say everyone else was fixated on the fleet scout role ?
Why France and the URSS didn't wanted Italy to keep the Littorios? And what would have been their role if they were kept? When I think about it the first things that came to mind are either using them as big shore bombardment platforms like the Iowas or a big guided missile conversion like what they did with the Giuseppe Garibaldi, perphas a carrier conversion but that sounds very unlikely since Italy wasn't permitted to have carriers until later on
How would you rate the major navies from both world wars according to their given capabilities? So of course the USN won over the IJN etc. but given the cards they were dealt(industrial base, technologies available), how good/bad did they do?
Thanks Drach for having me back. Just want to point out that I am not a professional Historian, just a navy geek who has read a lot and tries to bring up some regia marina content in English! Looking forward to having you on my channel
Hi, I am also just a geek with a strange hobby/interest. Submarine history from ~1800 up to 1945 (mostly the technical issues and solutions interest me) I have a small library on the English, US, German and Japanese subs. But I haven't found anything on the Italian subs. And they had some interesting ideas (WW1 mignetta, SLC, SSB and midget sub carrying Leonardo da Vinci for example). Can you send me some info where to find some books in English on this subject?
It always blows my kind to hear an epic story of a lone submarines voyage around Africa, or of a flotilla of boats taking an arduous trip all the way across and around Europe-just to provide a small amount of support on a single lake that formed only a small part of an awe inspiring war of terrible proportions. Stories that would have been epic poems or heroic myths on their own in earlier ages were but forgotten footnotes in WW2. It really brings the scale home.
Always enjoy these videos on the Italians. There's only so many times you can listen to WW2 Germany 'enthusiasts' blame Italy for everything that went wrong online before you begin to realise there's more to it than that...
Glad you take the time to cover the "small" campaigns and battles. The people who were killed, wounded or traumatized by what happened in those events are just as important to the story as the poor sod who did the same at Normandy, Stalingrad, Midway or too many others. Thank you.
The nearly universal dissing of the WW2 Italian Navy has always mystified me. The overriding attitude of the force seems to be "we have no desire to get killed fighting the Royal Navy in a conflict we cannot possibly win". Nothing but eminently wise and sensible.
Maybe if they had wasted lives and a valuable ship in a strategically useless foray like the Kriegsmarine did with Bismark they would be better remembered today.
The lack of fuel curtailed large operations during the whole campaign. Actually, the italians were quite state of the art factor in underwater commandos etc.. overall the regia marina was much more a fighting force than their ground forces.
For real it's so annoying to hear the same crap over and over again. The Italian navy was large and powerful but it never stood a chance against a much larger, more technologically advanced and resourceful navy like the Royal Navy. If they only fought large battles with heavy losses on both sides, England could have replaced said losses, for Italy those ships were just gone. On the other hand RM's main job was to secure a steady supply line to North Africa and that they did outstandingly even in the face of British raids, confronting them in the open, and disrupting British convoys to Malta. Playing it safe was the only reasonable option in this situation and the RM did all it could with great sacrifice, sadly most people think that warships blowing up on either side is an indicator of how successful a navy is.
Interesting. No matter what the Italians designed, cars, planes, boats, etc, they always had a flair for sweeping curves and smooth lines, allowing an over-all slippery fluid motion that could easily travel through their chosen medium. Visually beautiful and engineeringly (is that a word?) efficient.
Italian cars have a long reputation of being complicated to assemble and a bitch to maintain. And from my experience with Italian built equipment generally this is a national trait.
Idea for the inevitable remake of Das Boot German crew survive harrowing attempt to cross the Straight of Gibraltar: man that was a brutal cruise Italian sub crew at the same bar: I don't know what they're complaining about, crossing the straight is a milk run! Should we tell them about the deeper current? Nah, it's much funnier this way
Not only the Italians had torpedoes with magnetic pistols ("S.I.C." torpedo "Siluro Italiano Calosi", from the name of the designer, Ing. Calosi), but they sold 4000 of them to the Germans, because they were more reliable than the German ones. The Italian solution to the magnetic fuse was innovative. Instead of trying to only passively detecting the weak magnetic field of the ships (a thing that made the torpedo sensible to the variability of the earth's magnetic field), the torpedo used its own compressed air steel tank as an electromagnet. This made the torpedo insensitive to the variability of the earth's magnetic field. The torpedo's own magnetic field was deformed when passing under the metal mass or the ship, and that triggered the explosion.
@@neutronalchemist3241 by making the air tank of the torpedo into a electromagnet its solves the insensitivity of magnetic pistol do you have the data of how reliable their are in combat?
@@aker1993 They were considered to be very effective. Despite not being a Nazi, or even a Fascist, Calosi was awarded the Order of the German Eagle, and the German GK3 pistol copied his own. After the Italian Armistice Calosi was hiding, to not be deported in Germany, and he was considered so important that the Allies devised the "Operation McGregor" (later recalled in the book and movie "cloack and Dagger") to exctract him form the German occupied part of Italy. The operation was successful and Calosi, on his own request, was employed in the Newport torpedo Station, to develop a countermeasure to his own pistol. As recalled in Stanley P. Lowell book "Of Spies & Stratagems" Calosi gave spectacualr demonstrations, in live tests, of the effectiveness of his countermeasure in making the torpedoes explode off-target, but I don't know how much it had been employed by the US during the war since, a that point, we were pretty late in it.
Like many others have commented below, it is terrific that your channel, and the contributors, are giving the Regia Marina their fair place in WW2 history, and not before time. Another excellent video, thank you Drach and "Italian Military Archives".
Another interesting thing about the two Italian submarines in Japanese service: one of them, the Torelli, was the last Axis naval vessel that managed to shot down an allied aircraft (maybe the last of the war), a B-25, the 30th of August 1945. An interesting feat!
@@Italian_Military_Archives I didn't know that, however I remember I read an article about and old Italian sailor who remained in Japan after the war. He was serving aboard the other submarine, the Cappellini, and he shot down another plane some days before the surrender. If the one of the Torelli is debated, this one should be real, right?
A friend of my father was an Australian artillery spotter during the Battle of Crete. When it came time for the evacuation, he was on a fishing boat they had commandeered trying to cross the Med when they were captured by an Italian submarine. He spoke fondly of the Italians as captors, but things got much worse after the capitulation and the Nazis took over.
Thank you for covering the Italian submarines! I always love to hear those minor Axis nation's submarine stories (IJN and the Regia Marina). Now I know how the Italians cross the Gibraltar without losing the sub, unlike the German U-boats :)
@@paulochikuta330 I apologize for my poor using of the word 'minor'. What I want to express is Japan did not use the submarine correctly, so compared to Germany's success the Japanese submarine only had a minor effect in WW2 naval warfare.
@@uryen921 yeah Japanese submarine doctrine is really flawed especially against merchant shipping, but against big naval vessels, they got really notable achievements like the spectacular torpedo salvo of I-19 against a carrier, battleship, and supposedly a destroyer.
Not only the Italians had torpedoes with magnetic pistols ("S.I.C." torpedo "Siluro Italiano Calosi", from the name of the designer, Ing. Calosi), but they sold 4000 of them to the Germans, because they were more reliable than the German ones. The Italian solution to the magnetic fuse was innovative. Instead of trying to only passively detecting the weak magnetic field of the ships (a thing that made the torpedo sensible to the variability of the earth's magnetic field), the torpedo used its own compressed air steel tank as an electromagnet. This made the torpedo insensitive to the variability of the earth's magnetic field. The torpedo's own magnetic field was deformed when passing under the metal mass or the ship, and that triggered the explosion.
Drach/Giulio, Fantastic presentation! Very informative with great pictures not normally seen in the books! Looking forward to the next one. Regards, Bob
Fabulous stuff on the Regia Marina once again! Had never heard about the plan to use he Leonardo da Vinci to attack New York Harbour - that would make a great 'What If' movie...
My great grandfather was in the Italian army during world war II. I believe he was stationed in Greece. Then Italy switch sides in 1943 and he was just like f*** it I'm going to walk across the Adriatic. So he did just that got to his hometown but was so tired he was bedridden. At the time German soldiers weren't too kindly to Italian soldiers. They rounded up all the men and shot them. Except for my great grandfather. He had blonde hair, blue eyes and spoke German. His mother was from Munich. She migrated after world war I. If he had brown hair and brown eyes I would never existed.
My Grandfather also served in the Italian Army in WWII probably Greece or the Balkans. He figured which way the wind was blowing and joined the Italian Co-Belligerent Army in 1943 though. He came to Canada after the war and died long before my birth (thanks smoking!); would have been nice to meet him. The Germans were certainly not kind to their former ally, more Italian soldiers were killed (many in massacres) in the German invasion of Italy/forced disarmament in the Balkans in 1943 than in the entire North African campaign.
My grandfather also left the army after the armistice, as suggested by his base commander. He got back home, but he had to live under a false identity or he would be shot as a deserter by the occupying German forces... They still burned down his home THREE times in anti partisan retaliations.
Under performance ONLY after 1940 and due to Germany's breaking the Pact of Steel total betrayal. Up to then, 30 years of winning vs all foes and larger Empire than Germany's including the main force in winning the Spanish civil war. And YES, ITALY WON in Greece, NOT Greece or Germany.
When the Italian submarine contribution and the tonnage of Allied vessels they sank is expressed as a percentage of the German total of submarines and Allied tonnage they sank, Italy's war effort in the Atlantic was actually fairly respectable: Italy deployed a total of 32 submarines in the Atlantic, compared to the German 1,141; so Italy's force commitment was roughly 3% of what the Germans committed. In terms of tonnage, Italian submarines sank 593,864 tons of Allied shipping, compared to the Germans sinking 14,500,000 tons of Allied shipping; so the tonnage sunk by Italian submarines was roughly 4% of the total tonnage of Allied tonnage lost to Axis submarines. Seen in this light, the Regia Marina's submarine force in the Atlantic inflicted losses on the Allies that were proportional to its Atlantic commitment and slightly above its punching weight.
Also as tonnage sunk / submarines lost rate, Italian and German ones are pretty close. Simply, having the Germans a far larger base of submarines, some "superpredator" emerged, in a pyramidal scheme, but at the cost of far larger losses.
“This revisionist history convincingly argues that the Regia Marina Italiana (the Royal Italian Navy) has been neglected and maligned in assessments of its contributions to the Axis effort in World War II. After all, Italy was the major Axis player in the Mediterranean, and it was the Italian navy and air force, with only sporadic help from their German ally, that stymied the British navy and air force for most of the thirty-nine months that Italy was a belligerent. It was the Royal Italian Navy that provided the many convoys that kept the Axis war effort in Africa alive by repeatedly braving attack by aircraft, submarine, and surface vessels. If doomed by its own technical weaknesses and Ultra (the top-secret British decoding device), the Italian navy still fought a tenacious and gallant war; and if it did not win that war, it avoided defeat for thirty-nine, long, frustrating months.”
Aloha, italian engineering and design never ceases to amaze. Easely the sexiest subs, best pasta and gelato with a quart of red wine everyday and 8 months of great sailing weather on the Mediterranean. Fighting is secondary ;-). Been to an old Navy arsenal near Porto Fino. Its the oldest big Navy tracing its roots to the greek, the SPQR and the Roman Venetians beating Persians, Carthage, Turks, Pirates, Brits, French, Spanish etc. The Mediterranean feels very small. Sailed Marseille to Mallorca in 2 days at ca 8kts...thats halfway across to Africa...compared to the Pacific...its a lake... where I sail 20 days to get from SF to Honolulu and 30 days to Fidji.
I very much enjoyed this particular video. I spent 14 years stationed in Giata Italy. The history I learned was just a taste of what I would I love to learn. Please let me know of what you know. Chris Bongard.
I have just seen the magnificient film "LA NAVE BIANCA" , the white ship , by Roberto Rossellini , 1941 , on YT . Onboard the LITTORIO , with battle .!
I don't think any US subs used the 6 forward, 2 aft arrangement. The salmons and sargos both used a 4/4 and then the Tambor class moved to 6 forward, 4 aft which was the standard for the rest of the war.
In the early part of the war German U-Boats were also slow in submerging as they were not expecting to meet aircraft. It was only after they started to be subject to air attacks in the Atlantic did the realise they needed to dive more quickly.
This is a small but interesting bit of WW2 "During World War II, the Italian concession in Tientsin had a garrison of approximately 600 Italian troops on the side of the Axis powers. On 10 September 1943, when Italy signed an armistice with the Allies, the concession was occupied by the Imperial Japanese Army" .. after some fighting. I know I saw a TH-cam on this but not sure who.
Great coverage , very glad to see Italian military archives, Really appreciate that both of you can share knowledge from archives that I cannot understand as I cannot read in the language 😃
Love what you do! I had an idea for a 5-minute guide. I just found out the ship my father served on in the Korean war was the first purpose-built US seaplane tender AV-4 Curtis and according to Wikipedia has 7 World War 2 battle stars. She was actually in Peral harbor when the Japanese attacked.
A question for Giulio Poggiaroni: In 1926, Romania orders a small submarine (NMS Delfinul, 650/900 t) from Quarnero Shipyard in Fiume (now Rijeka, HR). Can you tell me if this is representative of the first generation of Italian 600 t series submarines? After a long litigation, the sub was commisioned into the Romanian Royal Navy in 1936.
I had a couple of bad weeks health-wise Drach, so now that I'm feeling better, it's great to have several new Drachinifel videos to catch up on! That said, this video is interesting, informative and entertaining (as usual), but I'd also like to compliment you on the truly professional audio quality, all the way around! Italian Military Archives' broadcast mic set-up sounds great, the internet connection was rock-solid (no 'underwater golly-wobble' or 'demonic sounding' artifacts) and it was awesome that you were able to do this guest/interview video without needing to use your headphone/boom mic combo. While your headphone's mic sounds decent, it pales in comparison to your broadcast mic. It's wonderful to see (and hear) your audio/video production skills continuously improving. Please know that your ongoing efforts are both noticed and appreciated -- keep up the outstanding work!
You mentioned the Germans and Italian's gliding the aircraft in to attack, another famous example of this was the female Russian Night witches squadron, they were only issued with inter war biplane bombers, so they would switch off their engines and glide over the target drop their bombs then gun the engines and motor the hell out of there. The Germans hated them, and I think they even offered an automatic knights cross to anyone who shot them down.
Yeah, the poliakarpov PO-2 "lame duck", a true everyman type aircraft. Very interesting aircraft, IIRC it is still used as a crop duster in some places. Also the only biplane with a recorded jet kill.
My late Grandpa server on a AA gun in Sewastopol. And acording to him they resorted to just blindly firing excess amounts of (captured Soviet) ammo into the skyes, whenever annyone suspected any witchaircraft.
What happens to a submarine in a large storm? Say a North Atlantic storm. I'm assuming it could just dive under. But how far under would it have to dive to avoid the effects?. And what happens if the submarine loses the ability to dive during a storm. And just gets sloshed around. What happens if it flips over?
The sub's batteries, of which there are many, and heavy, are all stored in the keel area to maintain an vaguely upright posture, so rolling over would be extremely unlikely. I seem to remember from other sub youtubers that 100ft is fine for avoiding most if not all nasty surface effects. A ww1 or ww2 sub caught on the surface in a big storm would result in many crew injuries and illnesses from being bounced and rolled around a heck of a lot. It probably wouldn't sink, but the crew would definitely not enjoy it.
In Das boot the book they hit a massive Atlantic storm with 60 foot waves, they only got to sleep for a few hours by submerging to 180 feet below the waves where it was calm. Then they would surface and deal with the storm for weeks on end
As a rough rule of thumb a depth of 3X the swell negates most of the effects. Mike's comments jive with my recollection. As a diver in less than 100 foot of depth the bottom can be tranquil while still inducing queasiness at the surface. When surface conditions are rough and diving in shallow water you find yourself moving to and fro several feet past stationary objects.
Prior to the start of Operation Barbarossa (June 1941), the Soviet Black Sea Fleet believed that the Italian Fleet would sail through the Dardanelles and Bosporus Straits in a major operation against the USSR. In fact, while Barbarossa was in progress, there had been false alarms that Italian squadrons had done just that. See "Mussolini's War in the East 1941-1943" for more detail.
In the last years i have seen a revaluation of Italy in ww2 and his role in the conflict ,expecially about navy and aviation .Thanks also to the objectivity of British .I write here some hidden victories of Italy in ww2: First and second battles of Sirte Operation Agreement Operation Daffodil Operation Pedestal Operation Harpoon Italian conquest of British Somalia - 1940 -Italian conquest of Cassala,Gallabat and Kurmuk (British-Egypt Sudan)1940; Victory of Petrikowka; The last charge of Izbusenskij of the cavalry Savoy in Croazia in the 1942
Italian Battleship Giulio Cesare was handed over to the Soviets for war reparations in 1949. The Soviets made her a part of the Black Sea Fleet, but she sank at Sevastopol Harbor in 1955, probably as the result of an unexploded mine, left over from WW2.
Last weekend I was fishing off NJ near a wreck that was torpedoed during WW2 called the varanger. I caught a monster wahoo which isn't a regular catch off NJ.
Italian design is par excellence. Clothing, automobiles, fashion accessories every thing looks better from an Italian design studio - personal opinion.
I think closer to the surface it's westward, due to the predominant Wind. Deeper it's eastward, due to evaporation in the Med (that in turn causes atlantic water to flow in).
The Italian Army, used the Beretta Model 1934 in 9mm Corto (.380), while the Navy and Airforce used the Model 1935, an identical pistol, but in 7.56 mm (.32 ACP). Why would the Italians use two different, identical pistols in two different calibers?
My bet is that the army actually expected to use the things occasionally, while the air force and navy figured the .32 was adequate for how little use they'd see. There is a notable power difference between the two, with the .380 being widely considered the absolute bare minimum cartridge for self-defense use currently, and most people will pick the 9x19 Parabellum/Luger over the .380. Personally, I have a soft spot for .32's and they are fun and comfortable to shoot, which is partially due to how light of a cartridge it is.
@@allangibson2408the change started in 1938 and nobody expected the war to start 1939 (hell, Hitler had promised Mussolini the war wouldn't start before 1942 and Raeder that it wouldn't before 1948. No Axis member was ready for war in 39)
I asked for this awhile back, I am not a Patreon member just a subscriber, so you probably missed it. THANKS anyway Italian subs did a lot of damage, and any submariner's are very brave men..
Nicely done, Drach and Giulio. Comment and like for the rather looking sus Algorythm and its 2k likes... Maybe the underground rumour of YT quietly downplaying history related channels is coming true. Loved the Perla story. Germans: "No 600 tonner can sail that distance and make it safe into port." Perla and its crew: "E sti cazzi!" Looking forward to Part 3. Ciao, bravissimi ragazzi.
Italian submarines of WWII were really underated and not that famous compared to its German and Japanese counterparts. And honestly, I can't recall any notable Italian submarine success apart from the Italian submarine who shot down a B-25 bomber while in Japanese service. Edit: I forgot about the successful Leonardo Da Vinci.
Here I talked about the Atlantic experience in focus, hope to cover the ww1 in the Adriatic soon: th-cam.com/video/qT0nrpjRuBQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=naLmu9pbOb-1Xv3f
So much History is just ignored because it isn't the Chase of the Bismark or nukes over Japan. It's all fascinating. These were brave men who were doing their duty and they deserve to be remembered.
Hmmm...36k views & 2k likes ? C'mon folks- do Drach a solid & hit that like button. That like button speads the word around TH-cam & helps increase his viewership & subscribers !! (No, I am not related or affiliated with him in any way !!) 🚬😎
Thanks for making this series. There ships look amazing even thought they cannot hit a thing. Guess Wargaming get things right now and again. Cant wait to listen. I did not know they even had subs.
“This revisionist history convincingly argues that the Regia Marina Italiana (the Royal Italian Navy) has been neglected and maligned in assessments of its contributions to the Axis effort in World War II. After all, Italy was the major Axis player in the Mediterranean, and it was the Italian navy and air force, with only sporadic help from their German ally, that stymied the British navy and air force for most of the thirty-nine months that Italy was a belligerent. It was the Royal Italian Navy that provided the many convoys that kept the Axis war effort in Africa alive by repeatedly braving attack by aircraft, submarine, and surface vessels. If doomed by its own technical weaknesses and Ultra (the top-secret British decoding device), the Italian navy still fought a tenacious and gallant war; and if it did not win that war, it avoided defeat for thirty-nine, long, frustrating months.”
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Pinned post for Q&A :)
How does the Gabbiano class compare to the British Flower class?
Did the Italians ever consider mounting catapult fighters on any of their cruisers or battleships?
Q&A It seems that the US and Germany were the only WW II navies that embraced the submarine as an independent raider. Is it accurate to say everyone else was fixated on the fleet scout role ?
Why France and the URSS didn't wanted Italy to keep the Littorios? And what would have been their role if they were kept? When I think about it the first things that came to mind are either using them as big shore bombardment platforms like the Iowas or a big guided missile conversion like what they did with the Giuseppe Garibaldi, perphas a carrier conversion but that sounds very unlikely since Italy wasn't permitted to have carriers until later on
How would you rate the major navies from both world wars according to their given capabilities? So of course the USN won over the IJN etc. but given the cards they were dealt(industrial base, technologies available), how good/bad did they do?
Thanks Drach for having me back. Just want to point out that I am not a professional Historian, just a navy geek who has read a lot and tries to bring up some regia marina content in English! Looking forward to having you on my channel
I've learned more about history from non-professional historians than I have from actual historians
So , you ate better than most "profesional historians " .
A pleasure to see you both cooperating again. Bravo!!
I really enjoyed it, please keep it up
Hi, I am also just a geek with a strange hobby/interest. Submarine history from ~1800 up to 1945 (mostly the technical issues and solutions interest me) I have a small library on the English, US, German and Japanese subs. But I haven't found anything on the Italian subs. And they had some interesting ideas (WW1 mignetta, SLC, SSB and midget sub carrying Leonardo da Vinci for example). Can you send me some info where to find some books in English on this subject?
An interesting chat; another nation whose WWII subs are perhaps overlooked are the Dutch, that would definitely be good topic for some future video.
Yeah. I love content on smaller navies.
That is true, the first I heard of Dutch Submarines was visiting the USS Cod, who helped the crew of one out of a tight spot during the war.
The Dutch both built some fantastic submarines and knew how to use them!
@@oriontaylor Unlike the American torpedoes, the Dutch torpedoes actually worked!
Somebody has recently done one .. mb it was Drach
It always blows my kind to hear an epic story of a lone submarines voyage around Africa, or of a flotilla of boats taking an arduous trip all the way across and around Europe-just to provide a small amount of support on a single lake that formed only a small part of an awe inspiring war of terrible proportions. Stories that would have been epic poems or heroic myths on their own in earlier ages were but forgotten footnotes in WW2. It really brings the scale home.
Always enjoy these videos on the Italians. There's only so many times you can listen to WW2 Germany 'enthusiasts' blame Italy for everything that went wrong online before you begin to realise there's more to it than that...
Tis is the typical wheraboo, since germany was soooooooooooo great its the italians that caused the loss
Seems like someone didn't get the joke
Thanks for the appreciation! There's still a lot to cover
@@patchouliknowledge4455 Wehraboos are a plague on society. Best isolated and ignored!
tHe ItAlIAnS cOuLdNt Do JaCkShIt. - Meanwhile the Italian Navy and Air Force : Am I a joke to you?
Indeed
The Luftwaffe lost the Battle of Britain, not the Regia Aeronautica and the Kriegsmarine lost the battle of the Atlantic not the Regia Marina.
Glad you take the time to cover the "small" campaigns and battles. The people who were killed, wounded or traumatized by what happened in those events are just as important to the story as the poor sod who did the same at Normandy, Stalingrad, Midway or too many others. Thank you.
The nearly universal dissing of the WW2 Italian Navy has always mystified me. The overriding attitude of the force seems to be "we have no desire to get killed fighting the Royal Navy in a conflict we cannot possibly win". Nothing but eminently wise and sensible.
Maybe if they had wasted lives and a valuable ship in a strategically useless foray like the Kriegsmarine did with Bismark they would be better remembered today.
The lack of fuel curtailed large operations during the whole campaign. Actually, the italians were quite state of the art factor in underwater commandos etc.. overall the regia marina was much more a fighting force than their ground forces.
Good point. Thx.
For real it's so annoying to hear the same crap over and over again.
The Italian navy was large and powerful but it never stood a chance against a much larger, more technologically advanced and resourceful navy like the Royal Navy. If they only fought large battles with heavy losses on both sides, England could have replaced said losses, for Italy those ships were just gone.
On the other hand RM's main job was to secure a steady supply line to North Africa and that they did outstandingly even in the face of British raids, confronting them in the open, and disrupting British convoys to Malta.
Playing it safe was the only reasonable option in this situation and the RM did all it could with great sacrifice, sadly most people think that warships blowing up on either side is an indicator of how successful a navy is.
@@Ah01 so much like the Royal Navy then in that regard.
Interesting. No matter what the Italians designed, cars, planes, boats, etc, they always had a flair for sweeping curves and smooth lines, allowing an over-all slippery fluid motion that could easily travel through their chosen medium. Visually beautiful and engineeringly (is that a word?) efficient.
I agree the lines on the boat are nice. It’s just a pity they hung so much on the deck. Looks like a mess with lots of drag.
Italian cars have a long reputation of being complicated to assemble and a bitch to maintain. And from my experience with Italian built equipment generally this is a national trait.
@@allangibson2408 just don't look at the electronics of the Italian cars.
And still the most desired cars of any.@@allangibson2408
@@allangibson2408the Macchi C.202 took 20k man-hours compared to the Bf.109's 6k. So you aren't far off.
Idea for the inevitable remake of Das Boot
German crew survive harrowing attempt to cross the Straight of Gibraltar: man that was a brutal cruise
Italian sub crew at the same bar: I don't know what they're complaining about, crossing the straight is a milk run! Should we tell them about the deeper current? Nah, it's much funnier this way
Great Idea! The equaly inavoidable third Part would involve the IJN.
I always love seeing a Regia Marina video: I know I'm going to be learning about things I had no idea about.
On my channel I am covering the subject with videos in English as well
Considering how badly magnetic exploders performed during the war, I'm not sure if not having them was such a drawback for the RM
Not only the Italians had torpedoes with magnetic pistols ("S.I.C." torpedo "Siluro Italiano Calosi", from the name of the designer, Ing. Calosi), but they sold 4000 of them to the Germans, because they were more reliable than the German ones.
The Italian solution to the magnetic fuse was innovative. Instead of trying to only passively detecting the weak magnetic field of the ships (a thing that made the torpedo sensible to the variability of the earth's magnetic field), the torpedo used its own compressed air steel tank as an electromagnet. This made the torpedo insensitive to the variability of the earth's magnetic field. The torpedo's own magnetic field was deformed when passing under the metal mass or the ship, and that triggered the explosion.
@@neutronalchemist3241 that's very interesting and pretty clever
@@neutronalchemist3241 by making the air tank of the torpedo into a electromagnet its solves the insensitivity of magnetic pistol do you have the data of how reliable their are in combat?
@@aker1993 They were considered to be very effective. Despite not being a Nazi, or even a Fascist, Calosi was awarded the Order of the German Eagle, and the German GK3 pistol copied his own. After the Italian Armistice Calosi was hiding, to not be deported in Germany, and he was considered so important that the Allies devised the "Operation McGregor" (later recalled in the book and movie "cloack and Dagger") to exctract him form the German occupied part of Italy.
The operation was successful and Calosi, on his own request, was employed in the Newport torpedo Station, to develop a countermeasure to his own pistol. As recalled in Stanley P. Lowell book "Of Spies & Stratagems" Calosi gave spectacualr demonstrations, in live tests, of the effectiveness of his countermeasure in making the torpedoes explode off-target, but I don't know how much it had been employed by the US during the war since, a that point, we were pretty late in it.
Sheez, an hour just on the Regia Marina submarines. Drach is like getting a Master's level education for free.
Shows how nasty these small craft fights were when even destroyer captains think the small craft commanders are madly aggressive!
Perfect timing, Drachinifel: It's just the thing to listen to sitting on a balcony during my Italian holiday!
Assuming with a glass of something? Now I’m jealous.
@@princeoftonga
Just water as of the time of writing, after a surprisingly steep (small) hike.
However, the wine I enjoyed yesterday was marvellous!
Like many others have commented below, it is terrific that your channel, and the contributors, are giving the Regia Marina their fair place in WW2 history, and not before time. Another excellent video, thank you Drach and "Italian Military Archives".
Thank you Mark, I am (slowly) covering the history of Regia Marina and of its ships in my channel (with videos in English as well)
Man, Italian ship design game is on point
Finally, someone mentione the Regia Marina submarine operations outside of the Med
😎
Sounds like a conspiracy theory :)
BETASOM
@@michelesambiase3237RAAAAAAAH LEONARDO DA VINCI MY BELOVED
Thank you. I'm glad to see Giulio Poggiaroni back on your channel.
Yes, more Italian naval history!
I think it was while reading about Flotilla 13 that I heard about the Italian SF naval guys. Absolute Mad Lads!
I am covering it on my channel, videos in English are available!
@@Italian_Military_Archives will check it out.
Another interesting thing about the two Italian submarines in Japanese service: one of them, the Torelli, was the last Axis naval vessel that managed to shot down an allied aircraft (maybe the last of the war), a B-25, the 30th of August 1945. An interesting feat!
It's a bit debated whether it happened or not
@@Italian_Military_Archives I didn't know that, however I remember I read an article about and old Italian sailor who remained in Japan after the war. He was serving aboard the other submarine, the Cappellini, and he shot down another plane some days before the surrender.
If the one of the Torelli is debated, this one should be real, right?
The idea of the torpedo buoy is fascinating and I'd never heard of it. Sort of like those modern mines that launch torpedoes (like CAPTOR).
A friend of my father was an Australian artillery spotter during the Battle of Crete.
When it came time for the evacuation, he was on a fishing boat they had commandeered trying to cross the Med when they were captured by an Italian submarine.
He spoke fondly of the Italians as captors, but things got much worse after the capitulation and the Nazis took over.
Thank you for covering the Italian submarines! I always love to hear those minor Axis nation's submarine stories (IJN and the Regia Marina).
Now I know how the Italians cross the Gibraltar without losing the sub, unlike the German U-boats :)
calling the IJN "minor" is a bit interesting, or did you mean the submarine branch specifically?
@@paulochikuta330 I apologize for my poor using of the word 'minor'. What I want to express is Japan did not use the submarine correctly, so compared to Germany's success the Japanese submarine only had a minor effect in WW2 naval warfare.
@@uryen921 yeah Japanese submarine doctrine is really flawed especially against merchant shipping, but against big naval vessels, they got really notable achievements like the spectacular torpedo salvo of I-19 against a carrier, battleship, and supposedly a destroyer.
Not only the Italians had torpedoes with magnetic pistols ("S.I.C." torpedo "Siluro Italiano Calosi", from the name of the designer, Ing. Calosi), but they sold 4000 of them to the Germans, because they were more reliable than the German ones.
The Italian solution to the magnetic fuse was innovative. Instead of trying to only passively detecting the weak magnetic field of the ships (a thing that made the torpedo sensible to the variability of the earth's magnetic field), the torpedo used its own compressed air steel tank as an electromagnet. This made the torpedo insensitive to the variability of the earth's magnetic field. The torpedo's own magnetic field was deformed when passing under the metal mass or the ship, and that triggered the explosion.
The German thank you to Italy? TOTAL BETRAYAL breaking the Pact of Steel just 4 months after signing. Just as they broke EVERY Pact.
Aloha Drach; BRILLIANT! Thanks so much for helping to further illuminate things not otherwise known. Mahalo nui loa
Extremely interesting program, The Italians usually get little more than a side note in most history books. Thanks to both of you.
I waited for this kind of video for years ! Most of youtube documentary movies just say: " italian submarine exist "
Drach/Giulio, Fantastic presentation! Very informative with great pictures not normally seen in the books! Looking forward to the next one. Regards, Bob
Fabulous stuff on the Regia Marina once again! Had never heard about the plan to use he Leonardo da Vinci to attack New York Harbour - that would make a great 'What If' movie...
It's a fascinating story
Naval operations in the Black Sea , hardly mentioned , often ignored but of great strategic importance as a supply line
My great grandfather was in the Italian army during world war II. I believe he was stationed in Greece. Then Italy switch sides in 1943 and he was just like f*** it I'm going to walk across the Adriatic. So he did just that got to his hometown but was so tired he was bedridden. At the time German soldiers weren't too kindly to Italian soldiers. They rounded up all the men and shot them. Except for my great grandfather. He had blonde hair, blue eyes and spoke German. His mother was from Munich. She migrated after world war I. If he had brown hair and brown eyes I would never existed.
My Grandfather also served in the Italian Army in WWII probably Greece or the Balkans. He figured which way the wind was blowing and joined the Italian Co-Belligerent Army in 1943 though. He came to Canada after the war and died long before my birth (thanks smoking!); would have been nice to meet him.
The Germans were certainly not kind to their former ally, more Italian soldiers were killed (many in massacres) in the German invasion of Italy/forced disarmament in the Balkans in 1943 than in the entire North African campaign.
My grandfather also left the army after the armistice, as suggested by his base commander.
He got back home, but he had to live under a false identity or he would be shot as a deserter by the occupying German forces...
They still burned down his home THREE times in anti partisan retaliations.
I'd love you to cover the Italian Navy in the Ironclad and Pre-Dreadnought era.
I hope to upload a video on the battle of Lissa between September and October
First time I ever seen anything about Italian WW2 subs. One of the boats pictured looked pretty modern for the time
Bravo Giulio come sempre
It appears the Regia Marina’s competence has been overshadowed by the underperformance of their ground forces in the war.
Under performance ONLY after 1940 and due to Germany's breaking the Pact of Steel total betrayal. Up to then, 30 years of winning vs all foes and larger Empire than Germany's including the main force in winning the Spanish civil war. And YES, ITALY WON in Greece, NOT Greece or Germany.
Oh my god, Drachinifel is interviewing Italian Drachinifel (with glasses). Reminds me of that time he interviewed German Drachinifel (with aviators).
Hahah that's a good one
When the Italian submarine contribution and the tonnage of Allied vessels they sank is expressed as a percentage of the German total of submarines and Allied tonnage they sank, Italy's war effort in the Atlantic was actually fairly respectable: Italy deployed a total of 32 submarines in the Atlantic, compared to the German 1,141; so Italy's force commitment was roughly 3% of what the Germans committed. In terms of tonnage, Italian submarines sank 593,864 tons of Allied shipping, compared to the Germans sinking 14,500,000 tons of Allied shipping; so the tonnage sunk by Italian submarines was roughly 4% of the total tonnage of Allied tonnage lost to Axis submarines. Seen in this light, the Regia Marina's submarine force in the Atlantic inflicted losses on the Allies that were proportional to its Atlantic commitment and slightly above its punching weight.
Also as tonnage sunk / submarines lost rate, Italian and German ones are pretty close. Simply, having the Germans a far larger base of submarines, some "superpredator" emerged, in a pyramidal scheme, but at the cost of far larger losses.
“This revisionist history convincingly argues that the Regia Marina Italiana (the Royal Italian Navy) has been neglected and maligned in assessments of its contributions to the Axis effort in World War II. After all, Italy was the major Axis player in the Mediterranean, and it was the Italian navy and air force, with only sporadic help from their German ally, that stymied the British navy and air force for most of the thirty-nine months that Italy was a belligerent. It was the Royal Italian Navy that provided the many convoys that kept the Axis war effort in Africa alive by repeatedly braving attack by aircraft, submarine, and surface vessels. If doomed by its own technical weaknesses and Ultra (the top-secret British decoding device), the Italian navy still fought a tenacious and gallant war; and if it did not win that war, it avoided defeat for thirty-nine, long, frustrating months.”
What an absolutely fantastic conversation! Thank you.
Aloha, italian engineering and design never ceases to amaze. Easely the sexiest subs, best pasta and gelato with a quart of red wine everyday and 8 months of great sailing weather on the Mediterranean. Fighting is secondary ;-). Been to an old Navy arsenal near Porto Fino. Its the oldest big Navy tracing its roots to the greek, the SPQR and the Roman Venetians beating Persians, Carthage, Turks, Pirates, Brits, French, Spanish etc. The Mediterranean feels very small. Sailed Marseille to Mallorca in 2 days at ca 8kts...thats halfway across to Africa...compared to the Pacific...its a lake... where I sail 20 days to get from SF to Honolulu and 30 days to Fidji.
I very much enjoyed this particular video. I spent 14 years stationed in Giata Italy. The history I learned was just a taste of what I would I love to learn. Please let me know of what you know. Chris Bongard.
I have just seen the magnificient film "LA NAVE BIANCA" , the white ship , by Roberto Rossellini , 1941 , on YT . Onboard the LITTORIO , with battle .!
I been to Souda in 94, was a nice place back then.
I don't think any US subs used the 6 forward, 2 aft arrangement. The salmons and sargos both used a 4/4 and then the Tambor class moved to 6 forward, 4 aft which was the standard for the rest of the war.
Yay! One of my favourite subjects. Thank you Drach and Giulio. 😃
Thanks!
In the early part of the war German U-Boats were also slow in submerging as they were not expecting to meet aircraft. It was only after they started to be subject to air attacks in the Atlantic did the realise they needed to dive more quickly.
This is a small but interesting bit of WW2 "During World War II, the Italian concession in Tientsin had a garrison of approximately 600 Italian troops on the side of the Axis powers. On 10 September 1943, when Italy signed an armistice with the Allies, the concession was occupied by the Imperial Japanese Army" .. after some fighting.
I know I saw a TH-cam on this but not sure who.
Perhaps War Stories with Mark Felton?
Great coverage , very glad to see Italian military archives,
Really appreciate that both of you can share knowledge from archives that I cannot understand as I cannot read in the language 😃
Thank you Anselm!
Love what you do! I had an idea for a 5-minute guide. I just found out the ship my father served on in the Korean war was the first purpose-built US seaplane tender AV-4 Curtis and according to Wikipedia has 7 World War 2 battle stars. She was actually in Peral harbor when the Japanese attacked.
A question for Giulio Poggiaroni: In 1926, Romania orders a small submarine (NMS Delfinul, 650/900 t) from Quarnero Shipyard in Fiume (now Rijeka, HR). Can you tell me if this is representative of the first generation of Italian 600 t series submarines? After a long litigation, the sub was commisioned into the Romanian Royal Navy in 1936.
Brilliant ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I had a couple of bad weeks health-wise Drach, so now that I'm feeling better, it's great to have several new Drachinifel videos to catch up on! That said, this video is interesting, informative and entertaining (as usual), but I'd also like to compliment you on the truly professional audio quality, all the way around! Italian Military Archives' broadcast mic set-up sounds great, the internet connection was rock-solid (no 'underwater golly-wobble' or 'demonic sounding' artifacts) and it was awesome that you were able to do this guest/interview video without needing to use your headphone/boom mic combo. While your headphone's mic sounds decent, it pales in comparison to your broadcast mic. It's wonderful to see (and hear) your audio/video production skills continuously improving. Please know that your ongoing efforts are both noticed and appreciated -- keep up the outstanding work!
Hania, right outside of Souda, is a classic port from an earlier time.
Italians choosing as an operational base in France the best region for wine... just a coincidence
If the Regina Marina had a social media Person, said person would asure you that Italian Vino is far superior anyway😂
I so very much enjoy your content! What a great way to start my day with a new video!
20:00 My grandad was in the Nigeria. Went with the ship to USA for repairs which was interesting.
You mentioned the Germans and Italian's gliding the aircraft in to attack, another famous example of this was the female Russian Night witches squadron, they were only issued with inter war biplane bombers, so they would switch off their engines and glide over the target drop their bombs then gun the engines and motor the hell out of there. The Germans hated them, and I think they even offered an automatic knights cross to anyone who shot them down.
Yeah, the poliakarpov PO-2 "lame duck", a true everyman type aircraft. Very interesting aircraft, IIRC it is still used as a crop duster in some places. Also the only biplane with a recorded jet kill.
My late Grandpa server on a AA gun in Sewastopol. And acording to him they resorted to just blindly firing excess amounts of (captured Soviet) ammo into the skyes, whenever annyone suspected any witchaircraft.
What happens to a submarine in a large storm? Say a North Atlantic storm. I'm assuming it could just dive under. But how far under would it have to dive to avoid the effects?. And what happens if the submarine loses the ability to dive during a storm. And just gets sloshed around. What happens if it flips over?
The sub's batteries, of which there are many, and heavy, are all stored in the keel area to maintain an vaguely upright posture, so rolling over would be extremely unlikely. I seem to remember from other sub youtubers that 100ft is fine for avoiding most if not all nasty surface effects. A ww1 or ww2 sub caught on the surface in a big storm would result in many crew injuries and illnesses from being bounced and rolled around a heck of a lot. It probably wouldn't sink, but the crew would definitely not enjoy it.
In Das boot the book they hit a massive Atlantic storm with 60 foot waves, they only got to sleep for a few hours by submerging to 180 feet below the waves where it was calm. Then they would surface and deal with the storm for weeks on end
As a rough rule of thumb a depth of 3X the swell negates most of the effects. Mike's comments jive with my recollection. As a diver in less than 100 foot of depth the bottom can be tranquil while still inducing queasiness at the surface. When surface conditions are rough and diving in shallow water you find yourself moving to and fro several feet past stationary objects.
Prior to the start of Operation Barbarossa (June 1941), the Soviet Black Sea Fleet believed that the Italian Fleet would sail through the Dardanelles and Bosporus Straits in a major operation against the USSR. In fact, while Barbarossa was in progress, there had been false alarms that Italian squadrons had done just that. See "Mussolini's War in the East 1941-1943" for more detail.
In the last years i have seen a revaluation of Italy in ww2 and his role in the conflict ,expecially about navy and aviation .Thanks also to the objectivity of British .I write here some hidden victories of Italy in ww2:
First and second battles of Sirte
Operation Agreement
Operation Daffodil
Operation Pedestal
Operation Harpoon
Italian conquest of British Somalia - 1940
-Italian conquest of Cassala,Gallabat and Kurmuk (British-Egypt Sudan)1940;
Victory of Petrikowka;
The last charge of Izbusenskij of the cavalry Savoy in Croazia in the 1942
Thanks. That was really interesting.
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Italian Battleship Giulio Cesare was handed over to the Soviets for war reparations in 1949. The Soviets made her a part of the Black Sea Fleet, but she sank at Sevastopol Harbor in 1955, probably as the result of an unexploded mine, left over from WW2.
I was looking forward to this episode!
👍🍻✌️🌏☮️
Give us a dedicated Italian Cruisers and DD special
On my channel there is an episode on italian DD
The floating spaghetti monster hath come for your... misconceptions and myths!
Exactly 😂
Last weekend I was fishing off NJ near a wreck that was torpedoed during WW2 called the varanger. I caught a monster wahoo which isn't a regular catch off NJ.
Thank you, Drachinifel.
The subs look like they were designed by Pininfarina
Italian design is par excellence. Clothing, automobiles, fashion accessories every thing looks better from an Italian design studio - personal opinion.
4 bow/ 4 aft gives you 8 torpedoes for a smaller diameter i imagine, which should lead to a faster sub
The Regia Marina needs more amore.
I am covering it on my channel!
Thanks Drach
So this was an awuffly underrated topic...
16:00 right a one way current between two oceans would require explanation.
I think closer to the surface it's westward, due to the predominant Wind. Deeper it's eastward, due to evaporation in the Med (that in turn causes atlantic water to flow in).
@@comentedonakeyboard you can look up predominant weather (trade winds), I'm assuming it would be the opposite.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_winds
The Italian Army, used the Beretta Model 1934 in 9mm Corto (.380), while the Navy and Airforce used the Model 1935, an identical pistol, but in 7.56 mm (.32 ACP). Why would the Italians use two different, identical pistols in two different calibers?
My bet is that the army actually expected to use the things occasionally, while the air force and navy figured the .32 was adequate for how little use they'd see. There is a notable power difference between the two, with the .380 being widely considered the absolute bare minimum cartridge for self-defense use currently, and most people will pick the 9x19 Parabellum/Luger over the .380. Personally, I have a soft spot for .32's and they are fun and comfortable to shoot, which is partially due to how light of a cartridge it is.
The same reason the Army had 6.5mm rifles and 7.35mm rifles at the same time. Someone thought it was a good idea…
@@allangibson2408the change started in 1938 and nobody expected the war to start 1939 (hell, Hitler had promised Mussolini the war wouldn't start before 1942 and Raeder that it wouldn't before 1948. No Axis member was ready for war in 39)
good show
Great video
Hot dog, a great start to a Wednesday!
I asked for this awhile back, I am not a Patreon member just a subscriber, so you probably missed it. THANKS anyway Italian subs did a lot of damage, and any submariner's are very brave men..
Here I covered the Atlantic subs in detail: th-cam.com/video/qT0nrpjRuBQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=naLmu9pbOb-1Xv3f
Love Giulio's accent for emphasis. :-)
Nicely done, Drach and Giulio. Comment and like for the rather looking sus Algorythm and its 2k likes... Maybe the underground rumour of YT quietly downplaying history related channels is coming true.
Loved the Perla story.
Germans: "No 600 tonner can sail that distance and make it safe into port."
Perla and its crew: "E sti cazzi!"
Looking forward to Part 3.
Ciao, bravissimi ragazzi.
Italian submarines of WWII were really underated and not that famous compared to its German and Japanese counterparts. And honestly, I can't recall any notable Italian submarine success apart from the Italian submarine who shot down a B-25 bomber while in Japanese service.
Edit: I forgot about the successful Leonardo Da Vinci.
*cries in Leonardo Da Vinci*
Leonardo Da Vinci sank about 120.00 tons of merchant shipping. That is as far as I know the most successful submarine outside of the Germans.
@@nekocarrier4443 thanks for reminding with that one, why did I miss that?
@@paulsteaven I don’t even know if this is in the video. I just said what I knew
Enrico Tazzoli 18 ships 96.650 tons other sources says 92.000 because of the ship Castor
Submarine story to bid farawell to Wolfgang Petersen, director of Das Boot.
Good vid. Would love to know more about the Adriatic stuff you were referring to. 😀
Here I talked about the Atlantic experience in focus, hope to cover the ww1 in the Adriatic soon: th-cam.com/video/qT0nrpjRuBQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=naLmu9pbOb-1Xv3f
So much History is just ignored because it isn't the Chase of the Bismark or nukes over Japan. It's all fascinating. These were brave men who were doing their duty and they deserve to be remembered.
ty
What about the Italian navy on the Lake Ladoga?
We mentioned it, didn't we? They deployed a bunch of MAS boats
@@Italian_Military_Archives Sorry, yeah, I missed the last five minutes. My fault. Keep up the good job.
Thank you Drach 👍
I’d love to see more submarine content. Follow HI Sutton and Sub brief for this and love their content. Can highly recommend them.
Oh my God. Yes, Boys!
Barkeep! Two tots today, please.
Nobody expects the Italian Submarines in position! ;-)
Hmmm...36k views & 2k likes ? C'mon folks- do Drach a solid & hit that like button. That like button speads the word around TH-cam & helps increase his viewership & subscribers !!
(No, I am not related or affiliated with him in any way !!)
🚬😎
Almirante. I think of them as the Cagni class.
What a cool video. Thanks. (Some of these subs are really gorgeous. Just look at those hull lines)
58:55 Black Sea / Sevastopol
Highest scoring non-German submarine aces of WW2 were Italians!
Yep! The Leonardo Da Vinci
Thanks for making this series. There ships look amazing even thought they cannot hit a thing. Guess Wargaming get things right now and again.
Cant wait to listen. I did not know they even had subs.
I talk about the Subs in the Atlantic here: th-cam.com/video/qT0nrpjRuBQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=naLmu9pbOb-1Xv3f
“This revisionist history convincingly argues that the Regia Marina Italiana (the Royal Italian Navy) has been neglected and maligned in assessments of its contributions to the Axis effort in World War II. After all, Italy was the major Axis player in the Mediterranean, and it was the Italian navy and air force, with only sporadic help from their German ally, that stymied the British navy and air force for most of the thirty-nine months that Italy was a belligerent. It was the Royal Italian Navy that provided the many convoys that kept the Axis war effort in Africa alive by repeatedly braving attack by aircraft, submarine, and surface vessels. If doomed by its own technical weaknesses and Ultra (the top-secret British decoding device), the Italian navy still fought a tenacious and gallant war; and if it did not win that war, it avoided defeat for thirty-nine, long, frustrating months.”
@37:35 so a cabbage wrapped sushi alfredo for dinner?
Italian boats on Laatokka?Im finish this is first time I heard of this.
That was fun!
Subscribed To RTS & War Games.🙏🙏🙏