It's done to streamline the aircraft which can make it lighter and more maneuverable. Newer aircraft don't need to jettison their tanks. They get no added benefit from doing so. Fuel is fed to the engines from all the fuel tanks at the same time in order to maintain the center of gravity or balance.
As an retired airdefense officer i see the f15EX as needed in the intial engagement as the truck with the extra air to air missles that is needed to fight Chinia.
Interesting. The lack of F-22's is the main reason this is happening. The pairing of the F-15's and F-16's was a great one. With the addition of the F-22's and F-35's the expectations were that the F-15's and F-16's get phased out but with what has happened the mix of the older and newer planes the USAF has a nice capability to meet most needs if and when they arise.
What really puzzles me is that they intended the F22 to be just an air to air fighter plane. And yet, they shut the program down after 187 planes, cz it was deemed too expensive. Now, what makes them think that the Fail-35 will fair any better WHEN it's already behind schedule and is supposed to do both air to air, air to ground, CAS and other roles as well.....and it's expected to be more affordable than the F22?
@@KondorDCS No the F-22 was shut down because shear stupidity The F-22 came at the end of the cold war, despite the fact that F-15 fleet was over 20 years old at time, they still called it a cold war relic Then you had a SecDef and President with no military experience making that decision to terminate The USAF generals that supported the F-22 were forced to retire because of the Bent Spear incident in 2007
I think that a mix of EX and 35 should be the more balanced choice. On a technical note: the thrust-to-weight ratio of the F-15EX, with the new engines and the light air-to-air armament (compared with the average air-to-ground of the F-15E) would be absolutely insane.
@@andreabindolini7452 We have the mix extraordinaire. Things change constantly. Given the fact that both aircraft could conceivably be in service when my great-grandchildren are grown - it's inevitable that things will change. And change. And change again. Look at the B-1B as a good example. Or the A-10.
Its not about better its what you can with each plane The F-35 gives more options than F-15EX while the F-15EX gives more payload and range Both have their pros and cons depending on situation
Like, you’re comparing 2 different types of jets, one is for taking out targets danger close, bombing in formation, and being a badass, and the other is for being sneaky, an assassin, a decent dogfighter (especially after the Mach 2 engine upgrades that are coming in 3 years), and being a badass. Like comparing an F150 to an AMG.
In the end, they'll be complementary. The F-35 will be able to act as a scout, spotting a whole lot of targets... while F-15EX will act as a bomb/missile truck lagging behind and ready to unleash hell upon those enemies.
The f-35 goes in first and then when it’s outta ammo it designates targets for the f-15ex which won’t need to turn its radar on and give away that it’s chilling just behind he horizon or some mountains off radar
Exactly, when talking about offensive capability, the F35 is what we want. When talking about defensive capability, the F15's speed to intercept and ability to attack multiple targets with a large number of weapon systems, it's still the clear choice. But the only real reason the F15 is still on the table is cost. Really, the Airforce should be designing something completely new with the same capabilities, combined with some stealth, EW and pilot awareness features, with a large weapon capacity. But it's possible the F15's airframe capability has simply already reached the peak of price to performance vs mission needs and just requires new tech upgrades to match the niche the Airforce needs to fulfill with regard to defense. I think the choice is down to unmanned platforms, deployed as swarms or relatively cheap but proven weapon systems still piloted by people. I think most govt's and militaries are still unsure of how much they really want to rely on unmanned platforms. Communication and control can be a single point of failure that's vulnerable to another kind of attack while a pilot can improvise and still complete the mission based on their own situational awareness.
Both combat aircrafts come from different types. F-15EX is a 4.5th generation twin-engines heavy fighter whose total engine thrust is more than F-35, which lead to a further combat range and more payload, while F-35 is a 5th generation single-engine light fighter whose stealth characteristic is better than F-15EX. F-35 has less hardpoints and armanent payload capability compared to F-15EX
As commenters have ready stated the obvious here; different aircraft for different missions. I'd like to point out some critical things here that our video narrator did not- while the F-35A's cost is NOW comparable to the F-15EX (at one time it was $150 million per unit), the maintenance cost for the F-35S is still three times as much compared to the F-15EX projected maintenance cost. This is key to Figther Wings' already relatively 'tight' budgets.
And the F-15s greater range has to amount to something when thinking about a Pacific air war. The F-15EX would be of great value doing air to air missions out over the SCS guarding AWACs and tankers from long range Flankers and J-20s ranging out over the Pacific looking to take out those platforms. Chinese air defense systems wouldn't be as much of an issue out over the water as range,speed, endurance, and payload, which the EX has in spades. Let the F-35s deal with bringing the war to the Chinese mainland and fleet while the F-15EX protects airspace over Taiwan Guam, and Japanese owned islands from fighter raids and cruise missile carrying bombers.
You didn't mention one of the key advantages the F-15EX has: It has an expected airframe life of 20,000 hours, 2-3 times as long as most modern jets, including the F-15C/D and F-35. So even though the purchase price is about the same, you'll have to buy more F-35s to have inventory for the same number of years.
Right and i don’t even think stealth even has a market in the terms of manned jets. That day has come and gone but it’s new market is stealth drones. So the new market for jets is having the extended life reworked frames with new ELECTRONICS. Electronics and some form a lower radar signature and suppression already integrated plus new engines and avionics FROM THIS CENTURY. So they are already familiar and makes sense to field the EX. It’s not a refitted upgraded old jet it’s all brand new.
This and running cost, is the actual reason why the f-15 air frame will still stay a big part of the USAF. They'll keep both and use both for roles that they excel in. Its silly to ask which is better, because it looks at the two aircraft in a vacuum, when performance is a metric that goes way passed the capabilities of the aircraft. You can easily make scenarios where one can seem better then the other, like a f-15ex would probably be very competitive in a dog fight against an f-35, but the flip side to that would be....why the hell would a f-35 be in a dogfight with a f-15 when it can smoke it from BVR without ever being detected?
Just for perspective, the F-35 airframe has been benched tested up to 24,000 hours if necessary, even if it's not been rated for it. The number Boeing is throwing out is likely the same type of number and may not be indicative of what the actual airframe life will be after certification.
Personally I love the F-15 and am glad to see it get an extension. The F-35 is an amazing aircraft and I’m sure it will fulfill its role but I do think there is plenty for the F-15 to do in the modern airspace.
Exactly, like shoot down damn satellites using the Pegasus missal. I don't think the F35 can carry anything that large internally and doesn't have the speed or climb rate to be as effective as the F15 in that regard. As an offensive weapon, the F35 wins in all categories, especially with US military doctrine being all offense all the time. For defensive purposes, the F15's speed trumps stealth and penetration capability. If the question is, does the the F15 still have a purpose in a world that includes the F35? The answer is vary much so, just not as an offensive weapon.
based on this, what would make everyone happy is that there are two air-frames for air dominance the US air-force uses: >twin engine twin seat. air dominance, air superiority fighter made to be the best fighter in the air and dominate the skies. it should have full capacity and be able to carry a large payload of AA or CAS. Needs to be able to be backwards compatible for doctrine. >single engine, single seat dominance and support fighter F-35 fills this role, but is a little on the expensive side and has a slightly undersized payload. however because of budget constraints the better option is to have several different aspects you have your top of the line feature rich fighters, which are the spear point. Then you have your high performance fighters which are your spear blade. behind that are your attack craft which can operate from limited access points. the B-1 is a strategic bomber the B-2 is a strategic stealth bomber the B-52 is just a heavy bomber the B-21 is a strategic stealth bomber, but smaller and upgraded. the A-10 is a jet propulsion based CAS the F-16 is a economy oriented fighter and air dominance support the F-15 is a performance oriented fighter and air dominance support the F-22 is a performance oriented, stealth capable, air superiority fighter the F35 is a feature rich, stealth capable, air dominance support fighter the NGAD will be a performance oriented, feature rich, stealth capable, air superiority fighter, though what I have seen of it it looks to be a further down scaling of the B-21.
The F-15 E Strike Eagle is multi roll fighter, Air to Air and Air to ground capabilities. Has been for well over 10 years. The F-15 is not just an Air superiority fighter.
@@muh1947. the debt is increasing and it is going to keep increasing, even if all the military budget was completelly cut it would still increase, so as far as i know, theres nothing we can do about it
I am in the both F-15EX and F-35 camp. Different aircraft and different missions. Yes, both are expensive. But the F-15EX argument is compelling and all F-35 doesn't seem very prudent to me.
If F-35 can spot and destroy the enemy's AA systems nothing can stand in the way of F-15EX. It is just as maneuverable as the best in the business but it is not only the fastest but it can carry as many as 22 missiles which makes it the most potent bird in the sky basically one F-15EX can do city wide scale of destruction with conventional weapons.
I believe the F-15EX will be able to share data with the F-35 over secure links. The F-35 could send targeting info to the EX which could attack those targets from outside detection range with new long range missiles that could be vectored in by the F-35 which can save its limited supply of ordinance for the highest priority targets in the air and on the ground.
The upside to having a variant of F-15's is simply maintaining aircraft, with upgrades. The down sides of having a fleet of F-35's is having to build all brand new facilities and support equipment, brand new maintainers, and brand new schools for training. Thec9sts associated with F-35's is not just per-aircraft costs, but everything else associated with the program.
Yes the stealth requirement are n advand technlgy until now, but there r already been built the radar that can detect & to counter the stealth technlgy. So in the upcoming years, it is possible that stealth technlgy cannot be a priority to any defenses system surely ....
If that were really true, why is China aggressively deploying its own stealth platforms in the form of the J-20 and J-35? Why is Russia still trying to get the SU-57 into service?
@@TheLAGopher that is what we call it a Political Game ... I presume that yourself already knows all super power Countries Play their own game (psychology) to compete each other right ???? ... If you learn the flow, sure you will get the answer of your own question ....
Obama canceled the program to make room for other things that all failed. The F-22 is still the most amazing aircraft ever designed and I hope that it is either upgraded or continued.
What the Air Force is not saying is that the F-15 EX can carry a nuclear cruise missile deep into enemy territory. Currently, no fighter that we have can accomplish this, including the F-15 E. We are relying on planes that can't fight their way to and from a target and we need a fast aircraft to accomplish this mission.
I agree. The ex is a new animal. The air frame is time proven. With super modern tech, it is as formidable as anything out there in gen4 plus. It's a big airframe with a radar that can't be matched by smaller aircraft. Stealth is for cowards. lol
They just need to pay Boeing to modify F-15 with stealth characteristics like the F-15SE that have already been tested like tilted tailed like the F-18. Add in some of the benefits of the F-35.
Here is the unstated lynchpin of this entire issue:. The f35 loses too much speed when it manuevers where as the f15 retains more speed. This is ABSOLUTELY critical ESPECIALLY in today's high-speed avoision combat. The f15 is the cheap car you want that they advertise for the dealership. But when you get there, you get rung around more the expensive models. The f15 is the most stubbornly well-engineered weapon of all time and history keeps reinforcing this theory
I put 100% of the blame on Congress. First for killing the F-22 well short of its initial run. Then for spending too much money. Congress has not passed a budget in so long that I cannot find any real data on an actual budget. They have been passing extremely wasteful omnibus bills that spend money on some trivial things and give too much to unnecessary items like gender studies in Pakistan. A muslim country that has little regard for women and girls… That is just a single example. But Congress sees control of spending as paying less for military items that are actually in the constitution and they are mandated to do. They killed (McCain especially) the F-22 because after sending us on endless wars with enemies that didn’t have air forces, they decided we didn’t need air superiority. And now we have to catch up to Russia and China. Even Iran is spending to improve its Air Force. But we have been successfully divided and are becoming impotent. Good job, political operators and career politicians! Lobbyists too! But we can just say I am a conspiracy theorist and that will fix it.
Design and purchase unmanned stealth drones with some AI to fly ahead of the F-15EXs to take out enemy air defenses. Cheaper unstealthy unmanned decoy fighters can fly with the stealth drones to aid in detecting the enemy air defenses when they turn on their radars.
exactly my thought valeron5. all the EXs have a 2nd seat as well making it the perfect platform to utilize a weapons/drone/ communications/ command & control operator along w/ a pilot. I'd imagine that EXs, drones and F35s will be utilized together. The USAF is also looking to turn some EXs into USAF Growlers - integrating the new jamming pods being developed for the Growlers. Again - the EX is the perfect platform w/ a second operator and more thrust, speed and load capability than the Growlers meaning they can carry lots of weapons in addition to the jammer pods and thereby perform their air interdiction and strike in addition to Electronic Attack. Again - I think they'll be used in concert with JSFs and USAVs.
Gen 5 is still just a marketing slogan that doesn't mean anything tangible. It's like a commercial slogan to promote the product. And there is still no such thing as stealth only reduced RCS.
So USAF finally came into conclusion, that Su-35 wasn't a bad idea at all, and they decided to make F-15 platform to be their own "heavyweight" fighter decades later than Russia did? Damn, it took a long while for US to consider that stealth multirole/fighter jets aren't as effective as they were supposed to be, lol. No wonder why F-22 are getting retired so soon.
More like the US figured out even it doesn't have limitless supplies of money and that certain mission sets can be performed just as good or better by a non-stealthy platform that has greater range, speed, endurance, payload, and availability than a stealthy one, at lower operating cost. If anything, the US is beating the Russians in the F-35/F-15EX mix reaching a similar mix of capabilities with the SU-35 complimenting the SU-57. Take a possible future air war over the South China Sea. The F-35 would be great for going after Chinese air defenses and command and control centers but would be limited against swarms of Chinese fighters due to its low missile capacity. The F-15EX would be great for missions out over the water, away from land-based Chinese SAMs, such as escorting AWACs and tankers, as well as providing air cover for Taiwan and the US Navy by intercepting Chinese anti-ship cruise missile-carrying bombers ranging out over the Pacific looking for the 7th Fleet.
The F-15 was flying years before SU-35. The f-22 will swat any Russian aircraft out of the sky.Say how's that economy going in Russia? Hey send a few su-35 over Ukraine and see what happens!Airbus will be picking through the crash site looking for titanium to build their planes! Ha! Ha! Ha!
@@cad5238 Yeah, lets compare fighter jet, that's at least 0,5-1 generation behind...that makes no sense. Ukraine is also using post-soviet era fighter jets, like MiG-29 or Su-27 and they are quite capable in terms of dogfighting. I do not support Russian agression over Ukraine - i just love their design and overall look - same with Russian helicopter gunships, Ka-52 is a state of art. Too bad, that all of these airships are in wrong hands :/ P.S Su-27 (35 is a deep modernisation of this platform) is almost as old as F-15. The thing is, that both of these jets only LOOK like 70's design - their avionics are totally different.
Nothing to do with stealth. It's to do with the F-22 being cancelled due to it's irrelevance to the war on terror, leaving the F-15C in service and badly in need of replacement due to the age of the airframes. The F-15C fleet has had 2 expensive wing replacement programs since the mid 2000s just to keep them flying, and if the F-35 was ordered to replace the F-15 as well as the F-16, it would take almost a decade. The logical solution is to just buy Boeing's proposed upgraded F-15, which provides new airframes within a couple of years, and with a slightly lower operating cost than the current F-35A. Similar thing happened with the Super Hornet. The USN decided to retire the entire Hornet fleet early so that the USMC could get spare parts for their Hornets, leaving the USN with a capability gap until the F-35 arrives in full. So to reduce that gap they ordered more Supers simply because they need more airframes, no matter how capable. Also, the F-22 is not getting retired. A small portion of the fleet including the very first production airframes are being retired, with 150 remaining in service. The airframes being retired are old and outdated due to lack of upgrades (for example they're still using the original APG-77), and were almost exclusively used for training purposes. They will be used as a spare parts stockpile, and the reduced maintenance costs will be used to fund upgrades for the remaining F-22s.
F15....combat proven (even though only against vastly inferior forces, but still) well engineered and not trying to do everything at once. Forget about the silly BS that a battle, any battle can be won with 0 losses.
The f15 is as non stealthy as a fighter gets. Uh, the requirements of 4th gen was some measure of radar stealth. It's seen that most 4th gen fighters employ some measure of angled panels where returns are highest, their engine ducts are not straight, the main fuselage is built around complex curves and often the exhaust nozzles are recessed for reduced lateral IR signature. Know your stuff
You have a way higher chance of being spotted shot down and dying in the f15ex. This isn’t a diss on the f15ex but it’s certainly less Capable then the mighty stealthyF35.
@@piepile6328 I don't think the F-35 would fare any better, US has been developing stealth technology for a while now and Russia was mainly developing technology to counter stealth aircraft
We in Poland have a MiGi-29 9.12. It is an excellent fighter as shown by the war in Ukraine. Unfortunately, we will give the MiGi-29 to Ukraine and the best option to replace them is the F-15EX. If the operating costs of the F-15EX will be similar to that of the F-16V, the F-15 will offer greater performance than the F-35A and F-16V at an acceptable price. The AESA radar capabilities - simultaneous shooting of 6 air targets, BVR ammunition stock, and a much higher top speed than the F-35A and F-16V make it an ideal interceptor for air superiority. It is not always the case that the old design such as the MiG-29 or the F-15 is bad. A different use of the aircraft means that it is not inferior to the F-35A and in many cases it is better and more needed. The F-35A is the new F-16V and nothing else. And the intercepting plane has to be very fast and fly 2Ma without restrictions - non-stop. B.r. BUBA
In hindsight I think it would have been cheaper to just stick with and upgrade the F-22 program long term I imagine the cost would go down however because they decided not to export them that would be a problem. Then I understand there still would be a need for a SVTOL jet so they would end up building another airframe anyway but probably wouldn't be so far behind. I like the new F-15ex and always thought it is better to upgrade a proven reliable airframe because when it comes down to it you want to know the damn thing works and is ready to go. The fact that no F-15 has been lost in combat to this day after decades of service I'm surprised they didn't do this before and is was foreign nations who kept the F-15 program alive demanding upgrades.
The F22 was designed for a kind of battle that should and can be completely avoided if possible. The F22 basically proved it's own unnecessary cost by never being needed for it's primary mission and waaaay overpriced for anything else. But it's development was a necessary step on the way to a cheaper multirole version and so is the F35. I don't think the military will be using the F35 until 2080 as they've stated. There will be at least one new platform that will work in concert or fully replace the F35 by 2040. That and new blocks of the F35 will trim or expand for more specialized roles given it's built in ability for upgrades and expansions, something the F22 lacks. It just wasn't designed by or for the 21st century battlespace.
As much as everyone wanted the F-22 back, the design of the F-22 is getting older now. The recent upgrade for the F-22's are so expensive that it will be completed by 2040's which is by the time it is finished, the NGAD (6th gen fighter) will replace the F-22 steadily. Also, ironically for being a 5th gen fighter, it has yet to be fitted with Helmet mounted sight which was it didn't have it currently.
What makes you think the f-15 EX doesn't have sensor fusion, and doesn't have computing power equal or greater than the older F-35A. The high price of the F-15EX should be a dead giveaway that it has comparable avionics, and given that it's newer and larger, it's going to have more processing power.
the f15ex shares the same cockpit instrumentation as the f35, research and development payed for by foreign parties interested in the ex, it also has the most powerful processor ever put into a fighter aircraft so in reality it has better sensor capabilities and inter connectivity than even the f35 has
Within the military, the F-14 was a WILDLY unpopular fighter. The only reason why it has the status it does is because of movies like Top Gun and The Final Countdown in the 1980s. All models of the F-14 were unstable to fly, a pain in the ass to maintain from a convenience perspective, and expensive to maintain. Not to mention it's primary weapon, the AIM-54 Phoenix, was less than reliable and large, often times with pilots having to jettison them just to land safely. Many Naval Aviators in regards to flying the F-14 said, "I can't believe it was legal."
Stealth technology as an offensive advantage will be overcome by the Chinese and Russians, then what? USA PC pilots program results are unknown concerning merit.
yea, i think the technology to detect stealth aircraft is already out by a long time now, Russia has claimed they detected F-22's and F-35's and seeing how a F-117 was shot down by a Russian/Soviet SAM I don't really think they were bluffing
russian and chinese sensors and radar have not advance to the point being able to detect the f35 let alone the f22 which has a small cross signature. The f35 and f22 has been pitted against f16, f15, french rafale with a kill raito 15 to 1
This comparison is irrelevant. The two fighters serve different purposes. The F-15EX is meant to be a 4'th generation missile truck. The F-35 is meant to be an air interdiction attack fighter. So spending money on one does not rob from the other.
Very informative. Thank You. Sadly, in my opinion, the Air force and all of our armed forces have been allowed to "slip" in virtually every requirement needed to protect our nation and to be victorious in war fighting. I am in favour of the F-15EX "go ahead" decision as a place holder and a stop gap. What was wrong with the F-22? I have never been in favor of the F-35 from it's conception, and, as a multi service aircraft? I feel that the "dreamers" spent too much time dreaming, while not fully considering reality. Kinda like the F-4. The fathers and grand fathers of the F-35 "fighter" designers, created a "fighter aircraft" with NO GUN! Ultimately, the F-4 was redeemed. Maybe the F-35 will be, some day.
The only problem with the F-22 was it's lack of multi-role capability. It didn't fit into the military arsenal needed to fight the politicians little war against terrorists, so it was cancelled and funding shifted to other projects. The F-4 had no gun and was still the best fighter of it's era. There were lots of problems with the USAF back then, and the lack of a gun was easily the least of them but also one of the most easily fixable, so they went for it and still performed worse than USN Phantoms which were never upgraded with a gun. Instead the USN chose to put pilots who had been trained for air combat into their fighters, whereas USAF pilots were mostly unfamiliar with air combat until they had to engage NVAF MiGs.. The F-35A has a gun, and the F-35B and F-35C have the option of a podded gun which unlike the pods of the Vietnam era it is actually linked to the targeting systems of the F-35, so is far more reliable. The F-35A at least has proven itself incredibly capable in all it's assigned roles, even beating the F-16 often in BFM training. It's only problem is it's operating cost, which puts it in the category of high-end fighters like the F-15, so it cannot replace the F-16 entirely.
@@dumdumbinks274 id argue that without the gun the mig21 was a vastly superior aircraft and even with the gun was still equal to it, the f22s full purpose was to replace the f15 and it did that and i feel the f22 was cancelled too soon it should have remained in production along side the f35 and the f35 should have remaind a replacement for the f16 as it was intended so that they each covered their intended roles. not take the f35 which cant play the role of air superiority nearly as well as the 22 and 15 can and make it the be all end all, the company that made both the 22 and 35 admitted the 35 isnt even as stealthy as the 22 due to its intended purpose as an export plane. a jack of all trades is good at everything but exceptional at nothing
@@c0ldyloxproductions324 The MiG-21 was designed as a pure interceptor and is analogous to the F-104 in most aspects. In comparison to the F-4 the MiG-21 had higher acceleration, but was worse in terms of max speed, maneuverability, combat range, and especially avionics, payload and weapons. The MiG-21 had objectively worse performance and versatility than the F-4. The F-22 should definitely have remained in production, but it isn't wildly more effective in air combat than the F-35, and they aren't trying to make the F-35 replace everything... it only performs the roles of the F-16 despite all the claims in the media. The F-22 is faster, higher flying and has retains more performance at higher altitudes, but the F-35 has utterly superior avionics and stealth, and otherwise matches the F-22 in subsonic maneuverability. In terms of the air superiority role the F-35 is undoubtedly more effective than the F-15. The F-15 is just cheaper to operate and can act as a missile truck for the F-35 to provide targeting data to. Lockheed have never 'admitted' the F-35 is less stealthy. It was never intended to be stealthier than the F-22 in the first place, so there was nothing to admit. The 'evidence' that the F-35 was less stealthy dates back to 2006 and was based on early computer simulations of the prototype, only taking into account the shape of the airframe. The production model was not tested specifically for stealthiness until 2011, and it was found to be slightly stealthier than the F-22 to the surprise of many of the top brass, and the cause of the extra stealthiness was attributed to advances in material technology in the decade since the F-22 production model first flew. Export had nothing to do with it. The F-35 was intended primarily for the US military, and the US are by far it's biggest customer. The US do not downgrade equipment when exporting anyway, unless specific circumstances required a downgrade such as Germany's treaty obligations after WWII. Most of the time restrictions prevent nations from buying specific US equipment altogether... Taiwan isn't allowed access to stealth fighters due to it's dispute with and proximity to China. The F-22's export ban came about due to it's unique situation of being an advanced single-role fighter developed right at the end of the Cold War. To summarise; all the big players in Europe were developing their own expensive fighters meaning no chance for the F-22 to gain a profitable export contract, and the end of the Cold war resulted in drastically reduced military budgets creating a security concern regarding information leaks.
@@c0ldyloxproductions324 Which claims? Lots of official claims regarding capabilities have been taken out of context by the media, and there are lots of unofficial claims by people in positions of power who don't actually have any relevance to the F-35 program or US military operations.
cant compare different generation aircraft designed to do wildly different things, the silent f15 as much updates it has its still a f15 design, not to mention multirole and air superiority have absurdly different design choices
The faster the plane, the more energy , so more range, every fired rocket gets.Speed and climb speed are the most important aspects.Who cares stealth, when enemies swarm your sky? Stealth is more an offensive aspect imho.
That extra range doesn't matter if you can't detect the target. Though given the Russian and Chinese aren't anywhere close to creating proper stealth fighters the F-15 still has a place in the USAF.
I think the US should have developed a replacement to the F111 Ardvark. You could incorporate stealth and essentially make a longer wider F35/F22 to take advantage of stealth but be able to carry 12 Joint Strike Missiles or 24 SDBs. Stop building do it all aircraft. The B1 Lancer can't be replaced by an F35. It needs a true replacement.
The F-111's replacement was the F-15E. Same capabilities overall, but able to defend itself if jumped. Besides, the point of large payloads was to ensure target destruction back when 10 bombs were required just to provide a reasonable chance of hitting the target. There's no need for such large payloads on modern strike aircraft equipped with smart bombs. Nobody of relevance is claiming the F-35 will replace the B-1B.
F-35A has longer combat range than the F-15 and is far more fuel efficient, not to mention that unless you allow the F-15s to drop their external fuel tanks thereby forcing the use of tankers on the return trip, the F-35A is faster too.
@@dumdumbinks274 F35 is not faster than F15. F35 top speed mach 1,6 F15 top speed mach 2,5. Climb rate, range, top speed, maneuverabilty all goes to F15.
@@cobra1854 So either you didn't read my comment, or you don't understand what the statistics actually mean... The F-15 Streak Eagle is the only F-15 to have ever achieved Mach 2.5. It was a pre-production F-15A stripped of all combat related equipment (including the gun) and had a slightly modified airframe for the sole purpose of breaking records. Mach 2.5 in a production model F-15 is likely to kill the engines, so safety limitations exist that prevent speeds higher than Mach 2.2. But because the F-15 relies on external payloads it's top speed is completely irrelevant to any combat situation anyway. Weapons are not merely statistics. They have weight and dimensions that are detrimental to the performance and range of the aircraft, especially if mounted externally where they cause significant parasitic drag (and so do the pylons they are mounted to). This is why you'll never see certain payloads used in combat even though they're technically possible e.g. F/A-18s are technically capable of carrying up to 12 AIM-120s, but they would be incapable of supersonic flight in such a configuration and have such short range that they would effectively be useless. With a standard air to air payload the F-15 has a top speed of Mach 1.5 and a combat range of 1300km, assuming we are talking about the F-15E and later models. Granted if it drops the external fuel tanks it can achieve up to Mach 1.8. The F-35A achieves Mach 1.6 and a combat range of 1400km. With a standard Strike payload the F-15 has a top speed of Mach 1.3 and a combat range of 1000km. The F-35A achieves Mach 1.6 and a combat range of 1200km. The F-15 does generally carry a larger payload, and that is it's only practical combat advantage over the F-35. In terms of climb rate an unarmed F-15 is better than the F-35. But an F-15 with an air to air payload is worse than the F-35., or without the external fuel tanks it is roughly equal to the F-35's maximum climb rate, but the F-35 starts to fall behind as it ascends above 10000ft. It's not enough of an advantage to keep the F-15 safe from the F-35 in a dogfight, but it does make the F-15 a slightly better high altitude interceptor as long as the targets are not stealthy. The F-15 is only more maneuverable at supersonic speeds and high altitudes, but those speeds are only beneficial for BVR combat where the F-35 easily beats the F-15 anyway, and dogfights don't take place at high altitude. At subsonic speeds in a dogfight at 20000ft or below the F-35 is more maneuverable, and at very low speeds (e.g defensive maneuvering trying to force the enemy to overshoot) there is no doubt that the F-35 can easily outmaneuver the F-15.
At the time, the powers that be didn't see it contributing to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and great power competition was not on the radar. Besides, they thought the F-35 was being developed with much more multirole capabilities and could be sold to US allies, so funding could be better spent on the later program. People thought about bringing the F-22 back to full production, a few years later, but among other things, it was a late Cold War design focused on fighting the Soviets, which meant long range was not really a design concern. With China now being regarded as the number one strategic competitor for the US, the range was seen as a limiting factor for the F-22 for any future Pacific air campaign vs China. It was reasoned that its better to design a new 6th generation fighter with longer range over building more F-22s.
There is an old saying jack of all traits master of none. I wouldn´t mind if there was a mix sure have the bombers and all of that to do land missions and such. But don´t skimp out on air defense either otherwise some other nation that has a good air defense will be able to shoot the bombers down. So have a mix of both bombers for when that´s needed but also airdefence if such things are required. In pure aesthetic (i think that´s spelled right) i like the F-15 16 model better in appearance, and that is solely because i am a child of the 80s and a huge Transformers nerd and one of my favorites was Starscream and his model was based around the F-15.
We’re better off starting to manufacture the f22 again. Even if we only get half as many as the F15EX if war breaks out it’s better to have the infrastructure in place to pump out f22s that are actually capable of fighting on the modern battlefield then f 15s that’ll quickly become obsolete in a real wartime scenario. Unless the infrastructure used for the f 15 can be easily switched to build f22 or a capable stealth air superiority fighter then this is just a waste. China isn’t wasting time on 4th gen aircraft. We’re just letting them close the gap by putting resources into this.
The Chinese main fighter is the J-16 which is their version of the SU-30. They are fielding the J-20 for their air force and the J-35,both stealth platforms for their navy. The J-20 seems to have a limited mission profile. Its built to range out over the Pacific, using its stealth to evade US fighters so it can destroy AWACs and tankers.Its not really a dog fighter. The J-35 appears to be a stealthy companion to the J-15 naval Flanker and would fill a similar nitch as the F-35C does with the FA-18 E/F Super Hornet on US Navy aircraft carriers. The J-16 is the primary dog fighter and would likely duel the F-15EX over Taiwan in any future Pacific war.
They should buy both. Giving that can give you greater numbers and advantages of having both. Giving what going on with China you need as many fighters as you can get operating. Giving the F-15EX can hold weapons the F35 cant with out wing mounting them removing it stealth it let them use a great number of stand off weapons.
Don’t look at me. Don’t look at me. Oops I did it again. I crashed and burned. Who’d a thought a bowling ball like me with tiny feathers for wings would not respond to pilot commands to pull up in time. A test pilot report detailed the performance of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in a mock air battle against a two-seat F-16D in January. The F-16D-based on a design developed 40 years ago and from a production run in the mid-1990s-bested the F-35 in close-range combat maneuvers. In the report, the F-35 pilot reported that his aircraft was in a "clean" configuration for the test, carrying nothing under its wings or in its internal weapons bays. The F-16, on the other hand, was flying with under-wing external fuel drop-tanks, which in theory would have put the aircraft at an aerodynamic disadvantage. Apparently, it didn't. "Even with the limited F-16 target configuration, the F-35A remained at a distinct energy disadvantage for every engagement," the F-35 pilot reported. That means the F-35 constantly found itself flying slower and more sluggishly, unable to effectively maneuver to get the F-16 in its sights. Furthermore, the F-35's high-tech helmet, which is supposed to give the pilot the ability to essentially "see through" the plane with the assistance of external cameras and sensors, didn't help matters. "The helmet was too large for the space inside the canopy to adequately see behind the aircraft," the pilot reported, which made it impossible to keep visual contact with the F-16 during the dogfight. F-16 co-designer Pierre Sprey berated the F-35 "inherently a terrible plane, because it's built based on a dumb idea"-a multirole, multi-service aircraft. "You've compromised the aircraft horribly for three different missions, and then you've compromised it again for three different services." He said the aircraft was "astonishingly unmaneuverable" because of its ratio of wing surface to weight. "In dogfighting, it's hopeless.
The F22 is such a superior Jet. You don’t need too many to shoot down a whole Enemy Squadron and sneak away unscathed. Prob only 1-2 can take on a whole squadron.
SE was a proposal for a stealth variant of the F15 It was canned because it would require a complete overhaul of the F15. It wasn't designed from the ground up to be stealthy like the F35 and F22s were so you'd just end up with a less stealthy F35.
The F-15 is a proven platform that's reached legendary status. The damn thing shoots down satellites! Some things may have reached their design peak with regard to purpose. You might need to just cover ground at the fastest speed possible, with as many weapons as possible. It's not likely the US will be in a position like that but you have to plan for the unthinkable.
If the weapon systems can talk to each other, it would be very beneficial to just have both. I'm curious, is the F-15EX the same as the F-15SE (Silent Eagle)? Boeing introduce the SE variant years ago but nothing in recent news about it. If the EX isn't the SE, what happened to the SE idea?
They get by with the old school and fly it for what it's worth... Same with Iran and those old F14A's they keep upgrading and keeping in flight (No clue how many now). Whatever works I guess.
Good question! Which air craft is better? I know that I'd prefer the stealth of the F35, avoiding battle altogether if I can. But should I get into a fight, I would definitely prefer the higher thrust to weight ratio of the F15, it's higher climb rate, it's speed, etc. Speed wins in air combat and the single engined F35 isn't exactly the fastest bird in the sky. She can't even super cruise which is something the F15 e/x and F15-2040C can do. Even the early models of the F15 are faster than the F35. Now this debate is still kind of silly. We are comparing apples to oranges. The F15 is an air superiority fighter. It's job is to control the skies and clear them of enemy threats. The F35 is a multirole fighter. Capable of dog fighting, doing ground attacks, etc. She's a jack of all trades but a master of none. The F15 is only a master of air superiority. Yes modern technology allows it to drop bombs and work as a light attack plane, but ultimately the F15 was designed to specialize in one role...air superiority. A job the F22 was intended to handle.
How fast do you think the F-15 goes when it has missiles and/or fuel tanks hanging from its wings. Parasitic air drag affects the speed of the F-15. Basically they are not getting anywhere close to Mach 2.5 unless it is fully clean. F-35 in stealth mode flies at Mach 1.6.
@@Penetzi fully loaded an F-15 can still do Mach 2.1 so it's still faster than the F-35. Again though it's not comparing apples to apples but apple to oranges. They're not the same type of jet plane.
This guy is insane. The F-35 average cost is $121,000, at least so far... ! Watchdog group finds F-35 sustainment costs could be headed off affordability cliff! Even our own AF has cut back on it's order, as have some European countries opting for the Euro-Fighter. They can't say the F-35 is selling like hot cakes or flying off the shelf, pun intended. The overall costs are based upon the total sales of a certain number of planes and spread throughout. For an already outmoded aircraft the cost just keeps on getting higher & higher.
It's hardly off a cliff. The F-35A's cost to operate is just not that of a workhorse... it's a high end fighter, and it's numbers will end up being roughly the same as the F-15.
@@dumdumbinks274 $1.73 TRILLION is not off a cliff! It's off of the edge of this flat Earth!! Except for the new computer software & some hardware changes, it's still basically the same plane. One does not use a Porsche to plow a field and one does not use a tractor to race at Le Mans!! The F-35 was supposed to be a more inexpensive(cheaper) plane that would be easy to maintain! HAAH!! There are some countries that have cancelled their orders for the plane be buying the F-35 because of the high maintain maintenance costs, which they cannot afford! Others have cut back their orders, even our own Air Force cut back & they are buying some of the new F-15EX instead!
@@pizzaman5169 Sure it's expensive in terms of total program cost, but there's also nothing to compare that cost to in order to get a picture of how much the military would normally spend, because the $1.73 trillion is for the entire lifetime of the F-35 till around 2070 and has not actually been spent. Prior to the F-35, aircraft cost projections were done at most for 10 year increments. The F-35 program is about 4% of the military budget, for a fighter that will be available in rather large numbers and is significantly more capable than any other fighter in the US military, except the F-22 which is only slightly better, but double the cost of the F-35. Not sure what you're getting at with the stupid porsche-tractor analogy... farming and racing require completely different tools, whereas CAS, Strike, and general air combat all benefit heavily from the same equipment and capabilities. A better analogy in regards to multi-role capability is that a carbine is generally much more useful to a soldier than a SMG, which is why SMGs are only issued for specialised roles, and increasingly are being replaced by carbines in those roles anyway. No countries have cancelled their orders or reduced them. Some have ruled out the F-35 for political reasons and did not place orders to begin with. Some have given the reason as wanting to be less reliant on the US for their military equipment, so nothing actually to do with the F-35 itself. Other nations have reduced *projected* orders for the F-35 such as the UK... you know... the nation that built a carrier with no aircraft to put on it. Other nations have increased their orders for the F-35 such as Japan. The USAF purchasing the F-15EX is unrelated to the F-35. The F-15EX is replacing the F-15C, which was supposed to be replaced by the F-22, but F-22 was cancelled completely due to it's irrelevance to the war on terror (Robert Gates didn't want any money spent on air superiority fighters, and hated the F-22). This left the F-15C only partially replaced, even though the airframes were falling apart. F-15Cs were falling out of the sky as early as 2006, and have had 2 multi billion $ wing replacement programs since then just to keep them flying. They also cost more to operate due to their age than the F-35A, and are grounded more often than any other USAF fighter. The quickest way to replace them was to buy from Boeing, who at the time had no orders and thus new F-15 orders would arrive quickly, whereas buying enough F-35s could have taken up to a decade because Lockheed have a large number of orders to complete before starting on any newly placed orders.
@@dumdumbinks274 The F-35 is THE most expensive weapon system ever built in our military's history. I don't believe that, when the final cost analysis is done, the government will find that recouping the cost value thru the service life of the plane. Don't get me wrong. I'm not, in any way, wishing any kind of failure for the plane & of course, not for any service personel or anyone other our enemies. I've been doing what I can to help our country for over 50 years. I've seen so much waste in personel & money over the decades, such poor decision making & outright stupid mistakes that have truly hurt America. So, I am quite jaded about believing & trusting what comes out of DC. {orsche & Tractor... They are metaphors, duh?? The F-35 is the Porsche & the A-10 is the tractor. That should have been plain to see. I assume you are aware of the two distinct jobs each can do. Neither one would be good at each other's job. How about a football reference? Running back vs a 330 lb. tackle?? You have your opinion & I have mine. We are both entitled to those. You take care & God bless.
@@pizzaman5169 *it is the most expensive development *program*, not weapons system... there is no hiding the colossal waste of money throughout the poorly managed development stage of it's life, which will affect it's logistical cost. However it's cost per aircraft is on-par with less capable fighters developed by other nations, and operating cost is only slightly higher than the new F-15EX. For what it's worth the F-35 is certainly the most capable fighter in the US military, but it's development was handled poorly by politicians and the upper management at Lockheed. The porsche/tractor thing was obviously a metaphor, just not one relevant to the F-35. The A-10 is not king of CAS. CAS is a very broad role encompassing many many different situations. The A-10 performs uniquely well in a couple of those situations, but is otherwise less effective than most fast jets. F-16s have saved more lives despite similar numbers in theatre to the A-10. Response time and accuracy of weapons are what matters most, and fast jets are able to get munitions on target much faster than the A-10 can. This has been the case since the Vietnam war, where the best CAS aircraft were not the Skyraiders, but rather the Intruders due to a combination of advanced avionics and high speed. The A-10 has it's uses in high altitude mountainous regions like Afghanistan because Apaches cannot fly efficiently at such altitudes, and fast jets often take longer to engage targets due to the mountains making target acquisition more difficult. But on any terrain that isn't mountainous there is no real benefit to using an A-10. F-16s are more effective for most CAS missions due to response times, and the F-35 is a major improvement over the F-16 in the CAS role due to it's powerful sensor suite and significantly longer range. Apaches are far more effective for sustained CAS operations, especially near bases or urban areas. F-15s are better battlefield control platforms due to the 2nd crew member sharing the workload. B-1Bs are better for large scale CAS operations. AC-130s are better for special operations due to their far more advanced sensor suite. Lastly the A-10 is pretty much worthless anytime the enemy has air defences for obvious reasons. Even the possibility of MANPADs being present will have A-10s dropping bombs from 10000ft instead of performing attack runs... anything can do that. But to address your metaphor directly... no, the F-35 was never going to replace the A-10. There was never any requirement for it to replace the A-10, and there was never any discussion about it taking over the A-10's very specific role. The discussions back around 2015 that lead to many people thinking the F-35 was replacing the A-10 were in regards to whether the A-10's specific capabilities were actually needed, because those capabilities were only relevant to specific situations. One option was to retire the A-10, and the USAF tried to promote this idea by showing the A-10's weaknesses in general CAS missions against the F-35, but the A-10 is not a good general CAS aircraft so of course it lost. However the idea was abandoned in favour of more funding towards a light attack aircraft that would fill the A-10's role with a much cheaper operating cost. This was abandoned by 2020, and now the USAF are upgrading the A-10 to keep it relevant for another decade.
' both F-F are good jetfighter planes... F-15 is a more fast speed / twin jetmotors but 2 error designs... F-35 is a normal speed / single jetmotor... no matter which is better jetfighters... both are good teams
With foreign countries developing anti stealth defensive capabilities then what will happen once these “stealth” planes start to get detected, possibly shot down by enemy forces? Stealth is important, however, the cost will be passed down to the American tax payer once the government realizes it can’t continue to tax to death its American people then what?
a F-117 already got shot down, stealth isn't about being invisible as people like to think, it's about staying undetected long enough Russia has already claimed it detect 5th gen fighters such as the F-22 and F-35 and I would very much love to see the technology (and proof) of how they did it
Why Some Fighter Jets Dump Their Fuel Tank th-cam.com/video/6AV-cSFd5GI/w-d-xo.html
It's done to streamline the aircraft which can make it lighter and more maneuverable. Newer aircraft don't need to jettison their tanks. They get no added benefit from doing so. Fuel is fed to the engines from all the fuel tanks at the same time in order to maintain the center of gravity or balance.
I imagine that 'landing' on a aircrAft carrier with people on deck, is made safer
As an retired airdefense officer i see the f15EX as needed in the intial engagement as the truck with the extra air to air missles that is needed to fight Chinia.
Couldnt even say it right. it's CHYNNNAAA.
@@happyface4234china
It Is cainananaiaaaa not chinia
The F-15 remains an absolute beast...
Interesting. The lack of F-22's is the main reason this is happening. The pairing of the F-15's and F-16's was a great one. With the addition of the F-22's and F-35's the expectations were that the F-15's and F-16's get phased out but with what has happened the mix of the older and newer planes the USAF has a nice capability to meet most needs if and when they arise.
What really puzzles me is that they intended the F22 to be just an air to air fighter plane. And yet, they shut the program down after 187 planes, cz it was deemed too expensive.
Now, what makes them think that the Fail-35 will fair any better WHEN it's already behind schedule and is supposed to do both air to air, air to ground, CAS and other roles as well.....and it's expected to be more affordable than the F22?
Nobody can afford to phase out those old planes because the new ones are not reliable.
@@johnp9890 Yes. Stealth planes can be tracked.
@@KondorDCS As my history teacher (and a movie) put it, "Military intelligence. A contradiction in terms."
@@KondorDCS
No the F-22 was shut down because shear stupidity
The F-22 came at the end of the cold war, despite the fact that F-15 fleet was over 20 years old at time, they still called it a cold war relic
Then you had a SecDef and President with no military experience making that decision to terminate
The USAF generals that supported the F-22 were forced to retire because of the Bent Spear incident in 2007
I think that a mix of EX and 35 should be the more balanced choice. On a technical note: the thrust-to-weight ratio of the F-15EX, with the new engines and the light air-to-air armament (compared with the average air-to-ground of the F-15E) would be absolutely insane.
The mix is what we have.
@@hartley81848184 not really. I've heard that the EX orders have been reduced.
@@andreabindolini7452 We have the mix extraordinaire. Things change constantly. Given the fact that both aircraft could conceivably be in service when my great-grandchildren are grown - it's inevitable that things will change. And change. And change again. Look at the B-1B as a good example. Or the A-10.
@@andreabindolini7452 They increased them to 104, still less than the initial 120 though.
Its not about better
its what you can with each plane
The F-35 gives more options than F-15EX
while the F-15EX gives more payload and range
Both have their pros and cons depending on situation
Like, you’re comparing 2 different types of jets, one is for taking out targets danger close, bombing in formation, and being a badass, and the other is for being sneaky, an assassin, a decent dogfighter (especially after the Mach 2 engine upgrades that are coming in 3 years), and being a badass. Like comparing an F150 to an AMG.
In the end, they'll be complementary.
The F-35 will be able to act as a scout, spotting a whole lot of targets... while F-15EX will act as a bomb/missile truck lagging behind and ready to unleash hell upon those enemies.
The F-15 gives less payload while "stealthy". It can carry more but does not have the hard-points.
The f-35 goes in first and then when it’s outta ammo it designates targets for the f-15ex which won’t need to turn its radar on and give away that it’s chilling just behind he horizon or some mountains off radar
Exactly, when talking about offensive capability, the F35 is what we want. When talking about defensive capability, the F15's speed to intercept and ability to attack multiple targets with a large number of weapon systems, it's still the clear choice. But the only real reason the F15 is still on the table is cost. Really, the Airforce should be designing something completely new with the same capabilities, combined with some stealth, EW and pilot awareness features, with a large weapon capacity. But it's possible the F15's airframe capability has simply already reached the peak of price to performance vs mission needs and just requires new tech upgrades to match the niche the Airforce needs to fulfill with regard to defense. I think the choice is down to unmanned platforms, deployed as swarms or relatively cheap but proven weapon systems still piloted by people. I think most govt's and militaries are still unsure of how much they really want to rely on unmanned platforms. Communication and control can be a single point of failure that's vulnerable to another kind of attack while a pilot can improvise and still complete the mission based on their own situational awareness.
Both combat aircrafts come from different types. F-15EX is a 4.5th generation twin-engines heavy fighter whose total engine thrust is more than F-35, which lead to a further combat range and more payload, while F-35 is a 5th generation single-engine light fighter whose stealth characteristic is better than F-15EX. F-35 has less hardpoints and armanent payload capability compared to F-15EX
The F-15EX has less payload if it wants to stay "stealthy". It does not matter how much it can carry if there are only 4 missile bays.
As commenters have ready stated the obvious here; different aircraft for different missions. I'd like to point out some critical things here that our video narrator did not- while the F-35A's cost is NOW comparable to the F-15EX (at one time it was $150 million per unit), the maintenance cost for the F-35S is still three times as much compared to the F-15EX projected maintenance cost. This is key to Figther Wings' already relatively 'tight' budgets.
And the F-15s greater range has to amount to something when thinking about a Pacific air war. The F-15EX would be of great value doing air
to air missions out over the SCS guarding AWACs and tankers from long range Flankers and J-20s ranging out over the Pacific looking to take out
those platforms. Chinese air defense systems wouldn't be as much of an issue out over the water as range,speed, endurance, and payload, which
the EX has in spades. Let the F-35s deal with bringing the war to the Chinese mainland and fleet while the F-15EX protects airspace over Taiwan
Guam, and Japanese owned islands from fighter raids and cruise missile carrying bombers.
You didn't mention one of the key advantages the F-15EX has: It has an expected airframe life of 20,000 hours, 2-3 times as long as most modern jets, including the F-15C/D and F-35. So even though the purchase price is about the same, you'll have to buy more F-35s to have inventory for the same number of years.
Right and i don’t even think stealth even has a market in the terms of manned jets. That day has come and gone but it’s new market is stealth drones. So the new market for jets is having the extended life reworked frames with new ELECTRONICS. Electronics and some form a lower radar signature and suppression already integrated plus new engines and avionics FROM THIS CENTURY. So they are already familiar and makes sense to field the EX. It’s not a refitted upgraded old jet it’s all brand new.
This and running cost, is the actual reason why the f-15 air frame will still stay a big part of the USAF. They'll keep both and use both for roles that they excel in. Its silly to ask which is better, because it looks at the two aircraft in a vacuum, when performance is a metric that goes way passed the capabilities of the aircraft. You can easily make scenarios where one can seem better then the other, like a f-15ex would probably be very competitive in a dog fight against an f-35, but the flip side to that would be....why the hell would a f-35 be in a dogfight with a f-15 when it can smoke it from BVR without ever being detected?
Just for perspective, the F-35 airframe has been benched tested up to 24,000 hours if necessary, even if it's not been rated for it. The number Boeing is throwing out is likely the same type of number and may not be indicative of what the actual airframe life will be after certification.
Personally I love the F-15 and am glad to see it get an extension. The F-35 is an amazing aircraft and I’m sure it will fulfill its role but I do think there is plenty for the F-15 to do in the modern airspace.
Just don't fly it in contested airspace that has modern SAMs and the F15 should do fine. The job of the F35 is to penetrate those kinds of areas
Exactly, like shoot down damn satellites using the Pegasus missal. I don't think the F35 can carry anything that large internally and doesn't have the speed or climb rate to be as effective as the F15 in that regard. As an offensive weapon, the F35 wins in all categories, especially with US military doctrine being all offense all the time. For defensive purposes, the F15's speed trumps stealth and penetration capability. If the question is, does the the F15 still have a purpose in a world that includes the F35? The answer is vary much so, just not as an offensive weapon.
based on this, what would make everyone happy is that there are two air-frames for air dominance the US air-force uses:
>twin engine twin seat. air dominance, air superiority fighter
made to be the best fighter in the air and dominate the skies. it should have full capacity and be able to carry a large payload of AA or CAS. Needs to be able to be backwards compatible for doctrine.
>single engine, single seat dominance and support fighter
F-35 fills this role, but is a little on the expensive side and has a slightly undersized payload.
however because of budget constraints the better option is to have several different aspects
you have your top of the line feature rich fighters, which are the spear point. Then you have your high performance fighters which are your spear blade. behind that are your attack craft which can operate from limited access points.
the B-1 is a strategic bomber
the B-2 is a strategic stealth bomber
the B-52 is just a heavy bomber
the B-21 is a strategic stealth bomber, but smaller and upgraded.
the A-10 is a jet propulsion based CAS
the F-16 is a economy oriented fighter and air dominance support
the F-15 is a performance oriented fighter and air dominance support
the F-22 is a performance oriented, stealth capable, air superiority fighter
the F35 is a feature rich, stealth capable, air dominance support fighter
the NGAD will be a performance oriented, feature rich, stealth capable, air superiority fighter, though what I have seen of it it looks to be a further down scaling of the B-21.
So far the Eagle is undefeated in over one hundred documented engagements... The lightening... 🤔😜🦅🇺🇸
The F-15 E Strike Eagle is multi roll fighter, Air to Air and Air to ground capabilities. Has been for well over 10 years. The F-15 is not just an Air superiority fighter.
👍
Nice video...smart content well presented...well reasoned...well done.
even the US Airforce is having that 70's-80's nostalgia trip.
both are great, why not both? just give half the budged for each
good video very informative.
The thing is that we are in $30 trillion debt
@@muh1947. the debt is increasing and it is going to keep increasing, even if all the military budget was completelly cut it would still increase, so as far as i know, theres nothing we can do about it
It would be great but it also would be against economies of scale
I am in the both F-15EX and F-35 camp. Different aircraft and different missions. Yes, both are expensive. But the F-15EX argument is compelling and all F-35 doesn't seem very prudent to me.
Different planes with different roles. Its like asking if tanks are better than infantry.
If F-35 can spot and destroy the enemy's AA systems nothing can stand in the way of F-15EX. It is just as maneuverable as the best in the business but it is not only the fastest but it can carry as many as 22 missiles which makes it the most potent bird in the sky basically one F-15EX can do city wide scale of destruction with conventional weapons.
I believe the F-15EX will be able to share data with the F-35 over secure links. The F-35 could send targeting info to the EX which could attack those targets from outside detection range with new long range missiles that could be vectored in by the F-35 which can save its limited supply of ordinance for the highest priority targets in the air and on the ground.
@@TheLAGopher Yeah I also heard that F-15EX having many sensors found of F-35 including the real-time-sharing tech
Go with a mix of F15 EX and the silent eagle version of the F15
The upside to having a variant of F-15's is simply maintaining aircraft, with upgrades. The down sides of having a fleet of F-35's is having to build all brand new facilities and support equipment, brand new maintainers, and brand new schools for training. Thec9sts associated with F-35's is not just per-aircraft costs, but everything else associated with the program.
Yes the stealth requirement are n advand technlgy until now, but there r already been built the radar that can detect & to counter the stealth technlgy. So in the upcoming years, it is possible that stealth technlgy cannot be a priority to any defenses system surely ....
If that were really true, why is China aggressively deploying its own stealth platforms in the form of the J-20 and J-35?
Why is Russia still trying to get the SU-57 into service?
@@TheLAGopher that is what we call it a Political Game ... I presume that yourself already knows all super power Countries Play their own game (psychology) to compete each other right ???? ...
If you learn the flow, sure you will get the answer of your own question ....
As I’m biased to the F15,I’m glad they will still be around.
Y'know you make a good point about the fact that F22 was canceled so early.
NGAD must be really paradigm shifting.
Obama canceled the program to make room for other things that all failed. The F-22 is still the most amazing aircraft ever designed and I hope that it is either upgraded or continued.
What the Air Force is not saying is that the F-15 EX can carry a nuclear cruise missile deep into enemy territory. Currently, no fighter that we have can accomplish this, including the F-15 E. We are relying on planes that can't fight their way to and from a target and we need a fast aircraft to accomplish this mission.
F15 is not just another f15. There's a reason it's called the eagle 2
I agree. The ex is a new animal. The air frame is time proven. With super modern tech, it is as formidable as anything out there in gen4 plus. It's a big airframe with a radar that can't be matched by smaller aircraft. Stealth is for cowards. lol
This is just me that I would prefer a new version of a proven fighter over a completely brand new version of an unproven fighter
My thoughts exactly, not to mention how badass the 15-EX looks
They just need to pay Boeing to modify F-15 with stealth characteristics like the F-15SE that have already been tested like tilted tailed like the F-18. Add in some of the benefits of the F-35.
Here is the unstated lynchpin of this entire issue:. The f35 loses too much speed when it manuevers where as the f15 retains more speed. This is ABSOLUTELY critical ESPECIALLY in today's high-speed avoision combat.
The f15 is the cheap car you want that they advertise for the dealership. But when you get there, you get rung around more the expensive models.
The f15 is the most stubbornly well-engineered weapon of all time and history keeps reinforcing this theory
The missle truck strategy sounds scary as F..
I put 100% of the blame on Congress. First for killing the F-22 well short of its initial run. Then for spending too much money.
Congress has not passed a budget in so long that I cannot find any real data on an actual budget.
They have been passing extremely wasteful omnibus bills that spend money on some trivial things and give too much to unnecessary items like gender studies in Pakistan. A muslim country that has little regard for women and girls… That is just a single example.
But Congress sees control of spending as paying less for military items that are actually in the constitution and they are mandated to do.
They killed (McCain especially) the F-22 because after sending us on endless wars with enemies that didn’t have air forces, they decided we didn’t need air superiority. And now we have to catch up to Russia and China. Even Iran is spending to improve its Air Force.
But we have been successfully divided and are becoming impotent. Good job, political operators and career politicians! Lobbyists too!
But we can just say I am a conspiracy theorist and that will fix it.
Design and purchase unmanned stealth drones with some AI to fly ahead of the F-15EXs to take out enemy air defenses. Cheaper unstealthy unmanned decoy fighters can fly with the stealth drones to aid in detecting the enemy air defenses when they turn on their radars.
exactly my thought valeron5. all the EXs have a 2nd seat as well making it the perfect platform to utilize a weapons/drone/ communications/ command & control operator along w/ a pilot. I'd imagine that EXs, drones and F35s will be utilized together. The USAF is also looking to turn some EXs into USAF Growlers - integrating the new jamming pods being developed for the Growlers. Again - the EX is the perfect platform w/ a second operator and more thrust, speed and load capability than the Growlers meaning they can carry lots of weapons in addition to the jammer pods and thereby perform their air interdiction and strike in addition to Electronic Attack. Again - I think they'll be used in concert with JSFs and USAVs.
Depending on the mission, both planes are important! Gen 4 + + is actually Gen 5 minus (stealth).
Gen 5 is still just a marketing slogan that doesn't mean anything tangible. It's like a commercial slogan to promote the product. And there is still no such thing as stealth only reduced RCS.
Wow we got some expert here
@@wogelson If basic, common sense looks like expertism to you, then your hopelessly inferior.
@@wogelson 💀
Depends on the situation.
Really! haven't you heard, the 15x is getting built to act as a missile truck for the F35:)
So USAF finally came into conclusion, that Su-35 wasn't a bad idea at all, and they decided to make F-15 platform to be their own "heavyweight" fighter decades later than Russia did? Damn, it took a long while for US to consider that stealth multirole/fighter jets aren't as effective as they were supposed to be, lol. No wonder why F-22 are getting retired so soon.
More like the US figured out even it doesn't have limitless supplies of money and that certain mission sets can be performed just as good or better
by a non-stealthy platform that has greater range, speed, endurance, payload, and availability than a stealthy one, at lower operating cost.
If anything, the US is beating the Russians in the F-35/F-15EX mix reaching a similar mix of capabilities with the SU-35 complimenting the SU-57.
Take a possible future air war over the South China Sea. The F-35 would be great for going after Chinese air defenses and command and control centers
but would be limited against swarms of Chinese fighters due to its low missile capacity.
The F-15EX would be great for missions out over the water, away from land-based Chinese SAMs, such as escorting AWACs and tankers, as well as providing air cover for Taiwan and the US Navy by intercepting Chinese anti-ship cruise missile-carrying bombers ranging out over the Pacific looking for the 7th Fleet.
@@TheLAGopher Yup, maybe. Lets hope it will never came true.
The F-15 was flying years before SU-35. The f-22 will swat any Russian aircraft out of the sky.Say how's that economy going in Russia? Hey send a few su-35 over Ukraine and see what happens!Airbus will be picking through the crash site looking for titanium to build their planes! Ha! Ha! Ha!
@@cad5238 Yeah, lets compare fighter jet, that's at least 0,5-1 generation behind...that makes no sense. Ukraine is also using post-soviet era fighter jets, like MiG-29 or Su-27 and they are quite capable in terms of dogfighting.
I do not support Russian agression over Ukraine - i just love their design and overall look - same with Russian helicopter gunships, Ka-52 is a state of art. Too bad, that all of these airships are in wrong hands :/
P.S Su-27 (35 is a deep modernisation of this platform) is almost as old as F-15. The thing is, that both of these jets only LOOK like 70's design - their avionics are totally different.
Nothing to do with stealth. It's to do with the F-22 being cancelled due to it's irrelevance to the war on terror, leaving the F-15C in service and badly in need of replacement due to the age of the airframes. The F-15C fleet has had 2 expensive wing replacement programs since the mid 2000s just to keep them flying, and if the F-35 was ordered to replace the F-15 as well as the F-16, it would take almost a decade. The logical solution is to just buy Boeing's proposed upgraded F-15, which provides new airframes within a couple of years, and with a slightly lower operating cost than the current F-35A.
Similar thing happened with the Super Hornet. The USN decided to retire the entire Hornet fleet early so that the USMC could get spare parts for their Hornets, leaving the USN with a capability gap until the F-35 arrives in full. So to reduce that gap they ordered more Supers simply because they need more airframes, no matter how capable.
Also, the F-22 is not getting retired. A small portion of the fleet including the very first production airframes are being retired, with 150 remaining in service. The airframes being retired are old and outdated due to lack of upgrades (for example they're still using the original APG-77), and were almost exclusively used for training purposes. They will be used as a spare parts stockpile, and the reduced maintenance costs will be used to fund upgrades for the remaining F-22s.
F15....combat proven (even though only against vastly inferior forces, but still) well engineered and not trying to do everything at once.
Forget about the silly BS that a battle, any battle can be won with 0 losses.
Have you heard about NGAD?
The f15 is as non stealthy as a fighter gets.
Uh, the requirements of 4th gen was some measure of radar stealth. It's seen that most 4th gen fighters employ some measure of angled panels where returns are highest, their engine ducts are not straight, the main fuselage is built around complex curves and often the exhaust nozzles are recessed for reduced lateral IR signature.
Know your stuff
If I were a fighter pilot, I feel safer being on board the F15 EX.
I know I like Russia but wasn't Russia a part of the design of the super hornet
That's exactly the reason why you're not
You have a way higher chance of being spotted shot down and dying in the f15ex. This isn’t a diss on the f15ex but it’s certainly less Capable then the mighty stealthyF35.
@@piepile6328 I don't think the F-35 would fare any better, US has been developing stealth technology for a while now and Russia was mainly developing technology to counter stealth aircraft
We in Poland have a MiGi-29 9.12. It is an excellent fighter as shown by the war in Ukraine. Unfortunately, we will give the MiGi-29 to Ukraine and the best option to replace them is the F-15EX.
If the operating costs of the F-15EX will be similar to that of the F-16V, the F-15 will offer greater performance than the F-35A and F-16V at an acceptable price.
The AESA radar capabilities - simultaneous shooting of 6 air targets, BVR ammunition stock, and a much higher top speed than the F-35A and F-16V make it an ideal interceptor for air superiority.
It is not always the case that the old design such as the MiG-29 or the F-15 is bad. A different use of the aircraft means that it is not inferior to the F-35A and in many cases it is better and more needed. The F-35A is the new F-16V and nothing else. And the intercepting plane has to be very fast and fly 2Ma without restrictions - non-stop.
B.r.
BUBA
In hindsight I think it would have been cheaper to just stick with and upgrade the F-22 program long term I imagine the cost would go down however because they decided not to export them that would be a problem. Then I understand there still would be a need for a SVTOL jet so they would end up building another airframe anyway but probably wouldn't be so far behind. I like the new F-15ex and always thought it is better to upgrade a proven reliable airframe because when it comes down to it you want to know the damn thing works and is ready to go. The fact that no F-15 has been lost in combat to this day after decades of service I'm surprised they didn't do this before and is was foreign nations who kept the F-15 program alive demanding upgrades.
The F22 was designed for a kind of battle that should and can be completely avoided if possible. The F22 basically proved it's own unnecessary cost by never being needed for it's primary mission and waaaay overpriced for anything else. But it's development was a necessary step on the way to a cheaper multirole version and so is the F35. I don't think the military will be using the F35 until 2080 as they've stated. There will be at least one new platform that will work in concert or fully replace the F35 by 2040. That and new blocks of the F35 will trim or expand for more specialized roles given it's built in ability for upgrades and expansions, something the F22 lacks. It just wasn't designed by or for the 21st century battlespace.
You know shits good when you have to compare, while these 2 will be in combat together unleashing hell
Bring the F-22's back
As much as everyone wanted the F-22 back, the design of the F-22 is getting older now. The recent upgrade for the F-22's are so expensive that it will be completed by 2040's which is by the time it is finished, the NGAD (6th gen fighter) will replace the F-22 steadily. Also, ironically for being a 5th gen fighter, it has yet to be fitted with Helmet mounted sight which was it didn't have it currently.
What makes you think the f-15 EX doesn't have sensor fusion, and doesn't have computing power equal or greater than the older F-35A. The high price of the F-15EX should be a dead giveaway that it has comparable avionics, and given that it's newer and larger, it's going to have more processing power.
the f15ex shares the same cockpit instrumentation as the f35, research and development payed for by foreign parties interested in the ex, it also has the most powerful processor ever put into a fighter aircraft so in reality it has better sensor capabilities and inter connectivity than even the f35 has
Does this comparison make sense?
Sometimes, I wished the F-14 super tomcat would’ve replaced f-15 and others in the fourth gen fighter. Instead, we have this f-15 and onward.
Lol
Within the military, the F-14 was a WILDLY unpopular fighter. The only reason why it has the status it does is because of movies like Top Gun and The Final Countdown in the 1980s. All models of the F-14 were unstable to fly, a pain in the ass to maintain from a convenience perspective, and expensive to maintain. Not to mention it's primary weapon, the AIM-54 Phoenix, was less than reliable and large, often times with pilots having to jettison them just to land safely. Many Naval Aviators in regards to flying the F-14 said, "I can't believe it was legal."
Which one is better? The C-5 Galaxy or the F-15X? Which one is better? The A-10 or the KC-135?
Really?? I suppose a joke being completely different missions/aircraft ;)
@@seancagney1369 Really??.... as in, what are you saying? Asking? What joke? They do have disparate missions that DON'T overlap.
Stealth technology as an offensive advantage will be overcome by the Chinese and Russians, then what? USA PC pilots program results are unknown concerning merit.
Russian rezonans ne radar gave detected the israel's f35 to 400 km
yea, i think the technology to detect stealth aircraft is already out by a long time now, Russia has claimed they detected F-22's and F-35's and seeing how a F-117 was shot down by a Russian/Soviet SAM I don't really think they were bluffing
russian and chinese sensors and radar have not advance to the point being able to detect the f35 let alone the f22 which has a small cross signature. The f35 and f22 has been pitted against f16, f15, french rafale with a kill raito 15 to 1
We need a diverse comeback jets so no we don't only need f-35s. F15 isn't a multi role jet so it can focus on air superiority
I think they need both ,Period and i too still love the F16s.
谢谢中文字幕！
This comparison is irrelevant. The two fighters serve different purposes. The F-15EX is meant to be a 4'th generation missile truck. The F-35 is meant to be an air interdiction attack fighter. So spending money on one does not rob from the other.
Very informative. Thank You. Sadly, in my opinion, the Air force and all of our armed forces have been allowed to "slip" in virtually every requirement needed to protect our nation and to be victorious in war fighting. I am in favour of the F-15EX "go ahead" decision as a place holder and a stop gap. What was wrong with the F-22? I have never been in favor of the F-35 from it's conception, and, as a multi service aircraft? I feel that the "dreamers" spent too much time dreaming, while not fully considering reality. Kinda like the F-4. The fathers and grand fathers of the F-35 "fighter" designers, created a "fighter aircraft" with NO GUN! Ultimately, the F-4 was redeemed. Maybe the F-35 will be, some day.
The only problem with the F-22 was it's lack of multi-role capability. It didn't fit into the military arsenal needed to fight the politicians little war against terrorists, so it was cancelled and funding shifted to other projects.
The F-4 had no gun and was still the best fighter of it's era. There were lots of problems with the USAF back then, and the lack of a gun was easily the least of them but also one of the most easily fixable, so they went for it and still performed worse than USN Phantoms which were never upgraded with a gun. Instead the USN chose to put pilots who had been trained for air combat into their fighters, whereas USAF pilots were mostly unfamiliar with air combat until they had to engage NVAF MiGs..
The F-35A has a gun, and the F-35B and F-35C have the option of a podded gun which unlike the pods of the Vietnam era it is actually linked to the targeting systems of the F-35, so is far more reliable. The F-35A at least has proven itself incredibly capable in all it's assigned roles, even beating the F-16 often in BFM training. It's only problem is it's operating cost, which puts it in the category of high-end fighters like the F-15, so it cannot replace the F-16 entirely.
@@dumdumbinks274 id argue that without the gun the mig21 was a vastly superior aircraft and even with the gun was still equal to it, the f22s full purpose was to replace the f15 and it did that and i feel the f22 was cancelled too soon it should have remained in production along side the f35 and the f35 should have remaind a replacement for the f16 as it was intended so that they each covered their intended roles. not take the f35 which cant play the role of air superiority nearly as well as the 22 and 15 can and make it the be all end all, the company that made both the 22 and 35 admitted the 35 isnt even as stealthy as the 22 due to its intended purpose as an export plane. a jack of all trades is good at everything but exceptional at nothing
@@c0ldyloxproductions324 The MiG-21 was designed as a pure interceptor and is analogous to the F-104 in most aspects. In comparison to the F-4 the MiG-21 had higher acceleration, but was worse in terms of max speed, maneuverability, combat range, and especially avionics, payload and weapons. The MiG-21 had objectively worse performance and versatility than the F-4.
The F-22 should definitely have remained in production, but it isn't wildly more effective in air combat than the F-35, and they aren't trying to make the F-35 replace everything... it only performs the roles of the F-16 despite all the claims in the media.
The F-22 is faster, higher flying and has retains more performance at higher altitudes, but the F-35 has utterly superior avionics and stealth, and otherwise matches the F-22 in subsonic maneuverability.
In terms of the air superiority role the F-35 is undoubtedly more effective than the F-15. The F-15 is just cheaper to operate and can act as a missile truck for the F-35 to provide targeting data to.
Lockheed have never 'admitted' the F-35 is less stealthy. It was never intended to be stealthier than the F-22 in the first place, so there was nothing to admit. The 'evidence' that the F-35 was less stealthy dates back to 2006 and was based on early computer simulations of the prototype, only taking into account the shape of the airframe. The production model was not tested specifically for stealthiness until 2011, and it was found to be slightly stealthier than the F-22 to the surprise of many of the top brass, and the cause of the extra stealthiness was attributed to advances in material technology in the decade since the F-22 production model first flew.
Export had nothing to do with it. The F-35 was intended primarily for the US military, and the US are by far it's biggest customer. The US do not downgrade equipment when exporting anyway, unless specific circumstances required a downgrade such as Germany's treaty obligations after WWII. Most of the time restrictions prevent nations from buying specific US equipment altogether... Taiwan isn't allowed access to stealth fighters due to it's dispute with and proximity to China.
The F-22's export ban came about due to it's unique situation of being an advanced single-role fighter developed right at the end of the Cold War. To summarise; all the big players in Europe were developing their own expensive fighters meaning no chance for the F-22 to gain a profitable export contract, and the end of the Cold war resulted in drastically reduced military budgets creating a security concern regarding information leaks.
@@dumdumbinks274 it wasn’t just media claims though the us government was making those same claims too
@@c0ldyloxproductions324 Which claims? Lots of official claims regarding capabilities have been taken out of context by the media, and there are lots of unofficial claims by people in positions of power who don't actually have any relevance to the F-35 program or US military operations.
cant compare different generation aircraft designed to do wildly different things, the silent f15 as much updates it has its still a f15 design, not to mention multirole and air superiority have absurdly different design choices
Can’t compare these two aircraft
The faster the plane, the more energy , so more range, every fired rocket gets.Speed and climb speed are the most important aspects.Who cares stealth, when enemies swarm your sky? Stealth is more an offensive aspect imho.
That extra range doesn't matter if you can't detect the target. Though given the Russian and Chinese aren't anywhere close to creating proper stealth fighters the F-15 still has a place in the USAF.
Can’t run a race with a truck when everyone else are using much advanced coupes…F35 is the future!
I think the US should have developed a replacement to the F111 Ardvark. You could incorporate stealth and essentially make a longer wider F35/F22 to take advantage of stealth but be able to carry 12 Joint Strike Missiles or 24 SDBs. Stop building do it all aircraft. The B1 Lancer can't be replaced by an F35. It needs a true replacement.
The F-111's replacement was the F-15E. Same capabilities overall, but able to defend itself if jumped. Besides, the point of large payloads was to ensure target destruction back when 10 bombs were required just to provide a reasonable chance of hitting the target. There's no need for such large payloads on modern strike aircraft equipped with smart bombs.
Nobody of relevance is claiming the F-35 will replace the B-1B.
Upgrading from f15c to f15ex like upgrading from 737 to 737max?
The answer is they should have bought more Raptors! Minimum of 500.The Lightning is NOT an air superiority fighter.
Keep them both
The F15 EX should be Canada's choice over the planned F35. Much better for long range coastal and NORAD threats.
F-35A has longer combat range than the F-15 and is far more fuel efficient, not to mention that unless you allow the F-15s to drop their external fuel tanks thereby forcing the use of tankers on the return trip, the F-35A is faster too.
@@dumdumbinks274 F35 is not faster than F15. F35 top speed mach 1,6 F15 top speed mach 2,5. Climb rate, range, top speed, maneuverabilty all goes to F15.
@@cobra1854 So either you didn't read my comment, or you don't understand what the statistics actually mean...
The F-15 Streak Eagle is the only F-15 to have ever achieved Mach 2.5. It was a pre-production F-15A stripped of all combat related equipment (including the gun) and had a slightly modified airframe for the sole purpose of breaking records. Mach 2.5 in a production model F-15 is likely to kill the engines, so safety limitations exist that prevent speeds higher than Mach 2.2. But because the F-15 relies on external payloads it's top speed is completely irrelevant to any combat situation anyway.
Weapons are not merely statistics. They have weight and dimensions that are detrimental to the performance and range of the aircraft, especially if mounted externally where they cause significant parasitic drag (and so do the pylons they are mounted to). This is why you'll never see certain payloads used in combat even though they're technically possible e.g. F/A-18s are technically capable of carrying up to 12 AIM-120s, but they would be incapable of supersonic flight in such a configuration and have such short range that they would effectively be useless.
With a standard air to air payload the F-15 has a top speed of Mach 1.5 and a combat range of 1300km, assuming we are talking about the F-15E and later models. Granted if it drops the external fuel tanks it can achieve up to Mach 1.8. The F-35A achieves Mach 1.6 and a combat range of 1400km.
With a standard Strike payload the F-15 has a top speed of Mach 1.3 and a combat range of 1000km. The F-35A achieves Mach 1.6 and a combat range of 1200km.
The F-15 does generally carry a larger payload, and that is it's only practical combat advantage over the F-35.
In terms of climb rate an unarmed F-15 is better than the F-35. But an F-15 with an air to air payload is worse than the F-35., or without the external fuel tanks it is roughly equal to the F-35's maximum climb rate, but the F-35 starts to fall behind as it ascends above 10000ft. It's not enough of an advantage to keep the F-15 safe from the F-35 in a dogfight, but it does make the F-15 a slightly better high altitude interceptor as long as the targets are not stealthy.
The F-15 is only more maneuverable at supersonic speeds and high altitudes, but those speeds are only beneficial for BVR combat where the F-35 easily beats the F-15 anyway, and dogfights don't take place at high altitude. At subsonic speeds in a dogfight at 20000ft or below the F-35 is more maneuverable, and at very low speeds (e.g defensive maneuvering trying to force the enemy to overshoot) there is no doubt that the F-35 can easily outmaneuver the F-15.
Better at what? They do different missions. One is stealth, the other is not.
Maybe the USAF needs to have defensive & offensive units,just like the US army must have.
What no one has explained to me is why, if the F22 was the cat's bollocks (yeah I know!), it was retired.
At the time, the powers that be didn't see it contributing to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and great power competition was not on the radar.
Besides, they thought the F-35 was being developed with much more multirole capabilities and could be sold to US allies, so funding could be
better spent on the later program.
People thought about bringing the F-22 back to full production, a few years later, but among other things, it was a late Cold War design focused on fighting the Soviets, which meant long range was not really a design concern. With China now being regarded as the number one strategic competitor for the US, the range was seen as a limiting factor for the F-22 for any future Pacific air campaign vs China. It was reasoned that its better to design a
new 6th generation fighter with longer range over building more F-22s.
@@TheLAGopher
Excellent reply! Thanks for enlightening me. 👍
1700 jets and not enough pilots to use them, all we do is buy them and park them
There is an old saying jack of all traits master of none.
I wouldn´t mind if there was a mix sure have the bombers and all of that to do land missions and such.
But don´t skimp out on air defense either otherwise some other nation that has a good air defense will be able to shoot the bombers down.
So have a mix of both bombers for when that´s needed but also airdefence if such things are required.
In pure aesthetic (i think that´s spelled right) i like the F-15 16 model better in appearance, and that is solely because i am a child of the 80s and a huge Transformers nerd and one of my favorites was Starscream and his model was based around the F-15.
Oh god the speed thing again.
Way did they retire the F22
We’re better off starting to manufacture the f22 again. Even if we only get half as many as the F15EX if war breaks out it’s better to have the infrastructure in place to pump out f22s that are actually capable of fighting on the modern battlefield then f 15s that’ll quickly become obsolete in a real wartime scenario. Unless the infrastructure used for the f 15 can be easily switched to build f22 or a capable stealth air superiority fighter then this is just a waste. China isn’t wasting time on 4th gen aircraft. We’re just letting them close the gap by putting resources into this.
The Chinese main fighter is the J-16 which is their version of the SU-30. They are fielding the J-20 for their air force and the J-35,both stealth platforms for their navy. The J-20 seems to have a limited mission profile. Its built to range out over the Pacific, using its stealth to evade US
fighters so it can destroy AWACs and tankers.Its not really a dog fighter. The J-35 appears to be a stealthy companion to the J-15 naval Flanker
and would fill a similar nitch as the F-35C does with the FA-18 E/F Super Hornet on US Navy aircraft carriers.
The J-16 is the primary dog fighter and would likely duel the F-15EX over Taiwan in any future Pacific war.
They should buy both. Giving that can give you greater numbers and advantages of having both. Giving what going on with China you need as many fighters as you can get operating. Giving the F-15EX can hold weapons the F35 cant with out wing mounting them removing it stealth it let them use a great number of stand off weapons.
I would rather have a f15ex with twin engine one engine fail you have another one to get you home safely !
Reading F15 ex sounds like reading F sex 😂
@@Ishikawa745 F-15EX + F-15SE = F-15SEX
Operating costs per hour are deceiving.
F 35 is better than everyone except
F 22 raptor that's all
Ф35 по основным показателям даже с 4м поколением соперничать не в состоянии. Ф 15 гораздо лучше
Don’t look at me. Don’t look at me. Oops I did it again. I crashed and burned. Who’d a thought a bowling ball like me with tiny feathers for wings would not respond to pilot commands to pull up in time.
A test pilot report detailed the performance of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in a mock air battle against a two-seat F-16D in January. The F-16D-based on a design developed 40 years ago and from a production run in the mid-1990s-bested the F-35 in close-range combat maneuvers.
In the report, the F-35 pilot reported that his aircraft was in a "clean" configuration for the test, carrying nothing under its wings or in its internal weapons bays. The F-16, on the other hand, was flying with under-wing external fuel drop-tanks, which in theory would have put the aircraft at an aerodynamic disadvantage.
Apparently, it didn't. "Even with the limited F-16 target configuration, the F-35A remained at a distinct energy disadvantage for every engagement," the F-35 pilot reported. That means the F-35 constantly found itself flying slower and more sluggishly, unable to effectively maneuver to get the F-16 in its sights.
Furthermore, the F-35's high-tech helmet, which is supposed to give the pilot the ability to essentially "see through" the plane with the assistance of external cameras and sensors, didn't help matters. "The helmet was too large for the space inside the canopy to adequately see behind the aircraft," the pilot reported, which made it impossible to keep visual contact with the F-16 during the dogfight.
F-16 co-designer Pierre Sprey berated the F-35 "inherently a terrible plane, because it's built based on a dumb idea"-a multirole, multi-service aircraft. "You've compromised the aircraft horribly for three different missions, and then you've compromised it again for three different services." He said the aircraft was "astonishingly unmaneuverable" because of its ratio of wing surface to weight. "In dogfighting, it's hopeless.
How many quarterbacks does one Football team usually need?
Both play different roles
The F22 is such a superior Jet. You don’t need too many to shoot down a whole Enemy Squadron and sneak away unscathed. Prob only 1-2 can take on a whole squadron.
Six aim -120 and 2 aim-9.
Ok, can someone tell me the difference between the F15EX and the F15SE (Silent Eagle)?
SE was a proposal for a stealth variant of the F15
It was canned because it would require a complete overhaul of the F15. It wasn't designed from the ground up to be stealthy like the F35 and F22s were so you'd just end up with a less stealthy F35.
@@Telor21 thank you for clearing that out for me!
The F-15 is a proven platform that's reached legendary status. The damn thing shoots down satellites! Some things may have reached their design peak with regard to purpose. You might need to just cover ground at the fastest speed possible, with as many weapons as possible. It's not likely the US will be in a position like that but you have to plan for the unthinkable.
If the weapon systems can talk to each other, it would be very beneficial to just have both. I'm curious, is the F-15EX the same as the F-15SE (Silent Eagle)? Boeing introduce the SE variant years ago but nothing in recent news about it. If the EX isn't the SE, what happened to the SE idea?
No. It was to have reduced radar cross section and internal weapons bays.
Jet f-15 ex tangguh di segala Medan sedangkan jet siluman f-35 tanpa terdeteksi tapi rapuh di cuaca buruk
Please ...I'm GS rated I know the programmable matter graphene magnetic propulsion morphing air fighter blows these two out of their dimension...
Do what the Russians did,go with a proven craft and modernize it,weather it's
F22 or F15
既存保有する国はF15改修する
必要あるF22は輸出無理、
F35もコスト的に保有少ないなら
現状戦力を落とさす維持するなら
EXプランが必要でしょうね。
my entire life savings is equal per hour flight
Meanwhile india: Mig-21 is enough
don't forget that they're still flying with Jaguar's and older Mirage's as well
They get by with the old school and fly it for what it's worth... Same with Iran and those old F14A's they keep upgrading and keeping in flight (No clue how many now). Whatever works I guess.
Su 30 MKI, MiG 29
Boeing said the same stuff about the 737 max.
Good question! Which air craft is better? I know that I'd prefer the stealth of the F35, avoiding battle altogether if I can. But should I get into a fight, I would definitely prefer the higher thrust to weight ratio of the F15, it's higher climb rate, it's speed, etc. Speed wins in air combat and the single engined F35 isn't exactly the fastest bird in the sky. She can't even super cruise which is something the F15 e/x and F15-2040C can do. Even the early models of the F15 are faster than the F35.
Now this debate is still kind of silly. We are comparing apples to oranges. The F15 is an air superiority fighter. It's job is to control the skies and clear them of enemy threats. The F35 is a multirole fighter. Capable of dog fighting, doing ground attacks, etc. She's a jack of all trades but a master of none. The F15 is only a master of air superiority. Yes modern technology allows it to drop bombs and work as a light attack plane, but ultimately the F15 was designed to specialize in one role...air superiority. A job the F22 was intended to handle.
How fast do you think the F-15 goes when it has missiles and/or fuel tanks hanging from its wings. Parasitic air drag affects the speed of the F-15. Basically they are not getting anywhere close to Mach 2.5 unless it is fully clean. F-35 in stealth mode flies at Mach 1.6.
@@Penetzi fully loaded an F-15 can still do Mach 2.1 so it's still faster than the F-35. Again though it's not comparing apples to apples but apple to oranges. They're not the same type of jet plane.
F-15EX 與 F-35 沒有誰比較好的問題，而是互相合作的問題。
Both are 'better' iff not flying by 'Paxtan airforce'. 🙂🙂
This guy is insane. The F-35 average cost is $121,000, at least so far... !
Watchdog group finds F-35 sustainment costs could be headed off affordability cliff! Even our own AF has cut back on it's order, as have some European countries opting for the Euro-Fighter. They can't say the F-35 is selling like hot cakes or flying off the shelf, pun intended. The overall costs are based upon the total sales of a certain number of planes and spread throughout. For an already outmoded aircraft the cost just keeps on getting higher & higher.
It's hardly off a cliff. The F-35A's cost to operate is just not that of a workhorse... it's a high end fighter, and it's numbers will end up being roughly the same as the F-15.
@@dumdumbinks274 $1.73 TRILLION is not off a cliff! It's off of the edge of this flat Earth!! Except for the new computer software & some hardware changes, it's still basically the same plane. One does not use a Porsche to plow a field and one does not use a tractor to race at Le Mans!!
The F-35 was supposed to be a more inexpensive(cheaper) plane that would be easy to maintain! HAAH!!
There are some countries that have cancelled their orders for the plane be buying the F-35 because of the high maintain maintenance costs, which they cannot afford! Others have cut back their orders, even our own Air Force cut back & they are buying some of the new F-15EX instead!
@@pizzaman5169 Sure it's expensive in terms of total program cost, but there's also nothing to compare that cost to in order to get a picture of how much the military would normally spend, because the $1.73 trillion is for the entire lifetime of the F-35 till around 2070 and has not actually been spent. Prior to the F-35, aircraft cost projections were done at most for 10 year increments. The F-35 program is about 4% of the military budget, for a fighter that will be available in rather large numbers and is significantly more capable than any other fighter in the US military, except the F-22 which is only slightly better, but double the cost of the F-35.
Not sure what you're getting at with the stupid porsche-tractor analogy... farming and racing require completely different tools, whereas CAS, Strike, and general air combat all benefit heavily from the same equipment and capabilities. A better analogy in regards to multi-role capability is that a carbine is generally much more useful to a soldier than a SMG, which is why SMGs are only issued for specialised roles, and increasingly are being replaced by carbines in those roles anyway.
No countries have cancelled their orders or reduced them. Some have ruled out the F-35 for political reasons and did not place orders to begin with. Some have given the reason as wanting to be less reliant on the US for their military equipment, so nothing actually to do with the F-35 itself. Other nations have reduced *projected* orders for the F-35 such as the UK... you know... the nation that built a carrier with no aircraft to put on it. Other nations have increased their orders for the F-35 such as Japan.
The USAF purchasing the F-15EX is unrelated to the F-35. The F-15EX is replacing the F-15C, which was supposed to be replaced by the F-22, but F-22 was cancelled completely due to it's irrelevance to the war on terror (Robert Gates didn't want any money spent on air superiority fighters, and hated the F-22). This left the F-15C only partially replaced, even though the airframes were falling apart. F-15Cs were falling out of the sky as early as 2006, and have had 2 multi billion $ wing replacement programs since then just to keep them flying. They also cost more to operate due to their age than the F-35A, and are grounded more often than any other USAF fighter.
The quickest way to replace them was to buy from Boeing, who at the time had no orders and thus new F-15 orders would arrive quickly, whereas buying enough F-35s could have taken up to a decade because Lockheed have a large number of orders to complete before starting on any newly placed orders.
@@dumdumbinks274 The F-35 is THE most expensive weapon system ever built in our military's history. I don't believe that, when the final cost analysis is done, the government will find that recouping the cost value thru the service life of the plane.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not, in any way, wishing any kind of failure for the plane & of course, not for any service personel or anyone other our enemies. I've been doing what I can to help our country for over 50 years. I've seen so much waste in personel & money over the decades, such poor decision making & outright stupid mistakes that have truly hurt America. So, I am quite jaded about believing & trusting what comes out of DC.
{orsche & Tractor...
They are metaphors, duh?? The F-35 is the Porsche & the A-10 is the tractor. That should have been plain to see. I assume you are aware of the two distinct jobs each can do. Neither one would be good at each other's job. How about a football reference? Running back vs a 330 lb. tackle??
You have your opinion & I have mine. We are both entitled to those. You take care & God bless.
@@pizzaman5169 *it is the most expensive development *program*, not weapons system... there is no hiding the colossal waste of money throughout the poorly managed development stage of it's life, which will affect it's logistical cost. However it's cost per aircraft is on-par with less capable fighters developed by other nations, and operating cost is only slightly higher than the new F-15EX. For what it's worth the F-35 is certainly the most capable fighter in the US military, but it's development was handled poorly by politicians and the upper management at Lockheed.
The porsche/tractor thing was obviously a metaphor, just not one relevant to the F-35. The A-10 is not king of CAS. CAS is a very broad role encompassing many many different situations. The A-10 performs uniquely well in a couple of those situations, but is otherwise less effective than most fast jets. F-16s have saved more lives despite similar numbers in theatre to the A-10. Response time and accuracy of weapons are what matters most, and fast jets are able to get munitions on target much faster than the A-10 can. This has been the case since the Vietnam war, where the best CAS aircraft were not the Skyraiders, but rather the Intruders due to a combination of advanced avionics and high speed.
The A-10 has it's uses in high altitude mountainous regions like Afghanistan because Apaches cannot fly efficiently at such altitudes, and fast jets often take longer to engage targets due to the mountains making target acquisition more difficult. But on any terrain that isn't mountainous there is no real benefit to using an A-10.
F-16s are more effective for most CAS missions due to response times, and the F-35 is a major improvement over the F-16 in the CAS role due to it's powerful sensor suite and significantly longer range.
Apaches are far more effective for sustained CAS operations, especially near bases or urban areas.
F-15s are better battlefield control platforms due to the 2nd crew member sharing the workload.
B-1Bs are better for large scale CAS operations.
AC-130s are better for special operations due to their far more advanced sensor suite.
Lastly the A-10 is pretty much worthless anytime the enemy has air defences for obvious reasons. Even the possibility of MANPADs being present will have A-10s dropping bombs from 10000ft instead of performing attack runs... anything can do that.
But to address your metaphor directly... no, the F-35 was never going to replace the A-10. There was never any requirement for it to replace the A-10, and there was never any discussion about it taking over the A-10's very specific role. The discussions back around 2015 that lead to many people thinking the F-35 was replacing the A-10 were in regards to whether the A-10's specific capabilities were actually needed, because those capabilities were only relevant to specific situations. One option was to retire the A-10, and the USAF tried to promote this idea by showing the A-10's weaknesses in general CAS missions against the F-35, but the A-10 is not a good general CAS aircraft so of course it lost. However the idea was abandoned in favour of more funding towards a light attack aircraft that would fill the A-10's role with a much cheaper operating cost. This was abandoned by 2020, and now the USAF are upgrading the A-10 to keep it relevant for another decade.
What are the other two flags that Japan is Inbetween
The best way to double your money folded in half need I say more
I belive they need the F-15EX as a backup on if Stealth fighters end up being like VTOL fighters.
No comparison at all !!!
'
both F-F are good jetfighter planes...
F-15 is a more fast speed / twin jetmotors but 2 error designs...
F-35 is a normal speed / single jetmotor...
no matter which is better jetfighters...
both are good teams
The F-15 is the iPhone of military planes
Amazingly both cost more than we could ever afford.
Don't worry. You're paying for it. I guaranteed that for sure.
With foreign countries developing anti stealth defensive capabilities then what will happen once these “stealth” planes start to get detected, possibly shot down by enemy forces? Stealth is important, however, the cost will be passed down to the American tax payer once the government realizes it can’t continue to tax to death its American people then what?
a F-117 already got shot down, stealth isn't about being invisible as people like to think, it's about staying undetected long enough
Russia has already claimed it detect 5th gen fighters such as the F-22 and F-35 and I would very much love to see the technology (and proof) of how they did it