The ultimate point of the video was spot on - that the right frame geometry trumps compromises made in the spec elsewhere... that being said there are likely better options, just not ones that are readily available in a test fleet to meet up for this test.
Great overview, though I don't really understand why only trail oriented geometry is considered 'modern' nowadays? The top choice here looks fine for trails but for XC it would be the worst by far. When saying the other bikes have 'conversative' geometry that sounds kinda negative, but they only serve a different purpose and there is nothing wrong with them per se. Cheers!
Daniel Suttor My guess is, that trail is the new standard for mtb, and feel that it represents quite accurately what people do when they mountain bike.
XC race bikes are now getting longer and slacker so I guess the more technical modern tracks are pushing the old "conservative" geometry into obsolescence.
I am not into slacker fronts , the cornering is slow and sloppy....i prefer to bring the stem length shorter...gone are the days of 75-90 lengths...just saying..jack..in stralia...
OK i will look after to build one whit a xc frame base with a 130mm instead of 100mm fork and all thé rest ... Ya it's another story Is that a good start?
Bought a Sonder Signal Ti 29er hardtail this year, long, low, slack, RockShox Revelation fork, 2.5 front and 2.4rear tyres-loving it-call it my Monster truck since it seems to roll over pretty much everything.....
I think Vitus Sentier VR needed to be included, excellent geometry, very confidence inspiring, slack, aggressive, very nicely specced for the money, great tyre selection from the factory and a 140mm debonair Rockshox Sector fork... Really nice..
“Since when is $1000 considered ‘cheap’??” Well, when you want a high quality mountain bike, $1000 is at the lower end. It’s all relative. $1000 is really cheap if you’re buying a car. $1000 is really expensive if you’re buying a new winter coat. Some people actually like to spend a decent chunk of change on their favorite hobby to make it more enjoyable.
I would have to agree. Good modern geometry is key consideration when looking to buy a bike. Components can be upgraded as the brake/wear out, but you can’t change the geometry of your frame quite as easily
Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for watching! Here's some other reviews you might like. th-cam.com/video/iDqPutpDCv8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/L19YVg6vE20/w-d-xo.html
the raidon fork is really hard to set up, the smallest change in air pressure can make it become absolutely insensitive on small bumps, or lose all the bottom out resistance. If set correctly tho, i think it becomes so much better than the rs recon. Having tried both i can say that the recon has got so much more stiction (try slowly putting your weight on the handlebars and you'll see the fork compressing like it's "indexed", it doesn't go down smoothly at all while the suntour looks a lot smoother), and suffers from a thing that bothers me so much: it loses so much grease from the seals! the stanchions are ALWAYS covered in grease! This also leads me to think that it ingests a lot of mud, while the raidon keeps going for seasons without needing any service which is important for a beginner. The motion control damper is an open bath damper while the raidon's damper, while not offering any compression adjustments (at least on my model), is sealed.
They're pretty similar in terms of lug size, but I think the Hans Dampf has too close lug spacing to make a good front tire. I have ridden a couple demos that had Hans Dampf as a front and I kept feeling like the tire wanted to slide/scoot over hard pack and rocky terrain rather than dig and bite. I think the HD is better suited as a rear tire to go with something like the Magic Mary.
@@thatguythatdoesstuff7448 Yeah, I've ridden both too. Best combo until now is New Hans Dampf rear and Magic Mary front. Nobby Nic isn't insanely grippy, but I've had it as a front tyre and it served me surprisingly well for what it is.
These are solid videos for comparing similar bikes, but you really need to re-think your categorization and video premise here. How hard is it to title this "$1000 MTB Hardtail Group test"? Call a spade a spade. A $1000 Cannondale Cujo isn't "budget" when you can get a Cannondale Trail for $720 and a Cannondale Catalyst for $525. Are those good bikes? Would they hold up to this type of riding? I'll never know, because bike reviewers who think two models up from entry-level is "budget" make it difficult to find any useful information. Picking the cheapest spec of the top-end model =/= budget.
I ride the cujo. I put 3.0 tyres on it so I dont smack the pedals all the time and I love it but I am old and fat and slow. I dont ride like a madman so I have no complaints on the slightly steep geometry. I do wish they would specify that the rear is not a boost 148 but a boost 141 rear hub.... Effing qr hubs in boost sizing are hard to find and spendy.
Would you buy the cheapest parachute? Mountain biking is dangerous enough.... Catastrophically failing a bike is super scary and likely a trip to the ER. Plus cheap stuff constantly is our of tune, shifts horribly (another ER trip when your bike fails to stay in gear while wheeling off of ledges), and the wheel sets bend like noodles. A cheap bike is fine for commuting but a serious liability out 10+ miles in the wilderness with finicky mechanism or injury due to a component failure.
@@johnnygunz2300 My current bike is a Voodoo Hoodoo. It's a budget bike but not cheap (£550). I can assure you it won't catastrophically fail. The frame won't snap and with Shimanos hydraulic brakes and 1*10 groupset it's very reliable. I've had mechanicals but I ride prepared so it's not an issue. They're part of mountain biking. Things go out of tune on all bikes which is why you have to service them. The rims won't "bend like noodles", I've got a mavic rim on the back and its been running great for 2 years and same for front rim (have had to fix a couple dings along the way). It isn't as luxurious, light and efficient as more expensive bikes but its very capable, safe and most importantly fun. But to answer your question. Yes. All equipment has to be verified and tested as safe for use so if I research and deem it safe I'll buy it.
@@jgilly3362 You can get a good bike and good components for around 500 you'll just struggle to ride it down Mont Sainte-Anne. Hydraulic brakes,1 by drivetrain , a decent fork. You just won't get things like a dropper, better tyres and lighter weight parts but they're all things that can be upgraded easily that aren't that expensive.
@@christianmallard6950 had to do the conversion to dollars. .... About$700. In the US that is probably the bare minimum you can spend too get a proper bike. The voodoo seems like a fair deal at that price as well. I think I read your initial comment incorrectly as there are solid options under 500 pounds.... In my opinion it would be the bare min I'd recommend a new rider to spend. Most mountain bikers in my area (as in probably 75%) are running full suspension rigs since New England is extremely rocky. Unfortunately that really drives the budget up (deters allot of would be riders). You can ride hardtails (I do sometimes), but it's way harder to keep up with other riders and I tend to only use it solo or on less technical rocky terrain.... I bend decent rims on my hard tail all the time, but I'm also 220 lbs, stocky, and ride hard.
I think its difficult to look at a hard tail as a downhill bike and going fast . I have a 2018 breezer storm expert hard tail and it was $ 900 out the door . It has a head tube angle of 69 which gets me down fairly steep declines but I am not barreling down . For me climbing is actually more important because if thats an awful experience I might as well get an E bike . The key is learning how to ride the bike . I did add a dropper post with a 100 mm of travel . I could have gone as much as 120 but that 20mm is not that big a deal and it lets someone shorter than me still ride the bike
The video is nice and informative but no where near budget. I'm looking into getting back to mtb riding, just recreational XC, prices are crazy. £1000+ pounds for hard tail is not cheap, MTB is becoming more and more expensive, soon will be like some rich people sport/hobby only. Standards are changed, new gadgets every year, insane. For people like myself(family,mortgage,cars etc.) good quality mtb is unreachable, when 10-12 years ago was £1000, not is £3000-5000. Why most bike magazines review expensive bike most of the time, when a 16-18-20 years old will be able to buy £3000/$4000 bike? I'm currently eyeing Trek Marlin 7 and Vitus Nucleus for XC, hopefully they will not be complete crap(judging by price range and components).
@@ronaldomac566 I have a Cannondale trail 8 with 29 inch tires, it's a great bang for the buck for $485. It's not high performing, and has cheaper components, but if it gives me fun, low maintenance, and I can use it for everything, that's what matters to me.
I have the Mantra elite, and it's a fun bike, which is what I got it for, but fast it is not. It definitely gives up some speed compared to more race inspired geometries. Its usually about 5 minutes slower per loop (45 vs 40) on my local trails compared to my racing hardtail. Out of saddle steeps climbs are nearly pointless, and going flat out through fast, flat sections is not its forte. If you dont intend to race it though It's a load of fun on the downhills and in bike parks.
Giant geometry, bank for the buck factor, you can come close but, you'll never beat it. Yeah, everyone rides one but, ever thought why they do for a moment?
Geometry is king, if you haven't tried the new longer slacker bikes you're missing out. Correct me if I'm wrong but Transition popularized and perfected the new geometry, we owe them big time.
Transition were inspired by what Chris Porter and GeoMetron were doing. GeoMetron and Nicolai still have the more extreme of the “modern” geometry. Chris Porter first got onto this direction after riding a Mondraker with Forward Geometry. But that seems conservative-or at least normal-up against a lot of bikes today.
3500 usd budget has to be an aggresive Hardtail what are some good bikes? I tried the stache 7 29+ or should i buy a chinese carbon frame fox 36factory 120t Full shimano xtr 9000 group set race face chester pedals dt swiss rims tires continental x king $3500with tax included This will be my first mtb
It's just the times man. Popularity is king when it comes to video format. People are into all mountain style riding. No one I know, and no one they know rides XC. Manufacturers are constantly out of stock of all mountain bikes in Large and sometimes Medium. I think people that are getting into (or back into) mountain biking are electing to go for trail riding that suits the bikes being shown.
Whaaa? It's a budget hardtail, anybody serious about XC racing is going to either spend more, of focus on a different set of things. In this budget range, that's a bike that has to do everything, which this test reflects. This is oddly on area I'll defent BikeRadar for having the right idea.
@UCSUu-G_t4sNM78cGQqp2ykw Ah, quite right... In my mind, there's too many frames already designed for just that, and plenty of direct sales options on commodity frames that achieve exactly what you're suggesting... for a bike reviewer, in this price range, they'd just be traveling back in time, and that's not necessarily interesting content. Although, on trails like that gravel bikes and flat-bar monstercross setups are actually quick excellent, in which case a USED bike where you get to choose a few flash parts to bring it up to date is going to be far better than something new.
@@tehllama42 I have a gravel bike too. It has it's place, it's a great all rounder for asphalt and very smooth offroad surfaces (like gravel), and it's also a great road bike if you're not obsessed with Strava times. But your ride can turn into torture pretty damn quickly (meaning you'll rattle your brain and eyes out) even on just slightly rough dirt roads. The suspension fork was invented for a reason. 🙃 Yeah, XC bikes had quite some time to evolve, so many of them are so similar. In this price range there are oodles of XC hardtails. Most will have an alu frame, 100mm fork, 69-69.5 head angle, ~74 degree seat angle, 425-435 chainstays, and clearance for 2.2-2.3 tyres. Really just select the one that offers the best bits for the money and you're set... No video needed. 😀
@@HollyBoni Yeah, I'm one of the oddballs who takes road bikes into trail bike territory, so torture is a relative concept. Importantly, you're right that there are tons of examples in the 100mm hartail 69°HTA setup that are differentiated by quality of bolt-on parts more than geometry, so yes.
So the good old American classic *2019 Trek* wasn't included in your hardtail testing l see... Much *respectively* I noticed that the American brand of bikes on this channel gets very little recognition of quality... The 2019 *Marin San Quin* wasn't honored as a mention as well...
Voodoo Mambo 27.5+, Recon RL 130mm, Maxxis Rekon TR, SRAM 1x11, good geometry, £650 on offer down from £800. That's more budget & the geometry/spec is in line if not better than these bikes.
The bike is solid and my Ebike conversion went great. th-cam.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L Very smooth ride at 30mph with no problems (135 miles ridden so far). The picture is a bit deceiving - there is WAY less space in the center of the frame than it shows. The suspension connection takes up the entire thing. So I needed to attach my battery on the bottom of the frame and my controller on the top. Instructions for assembly were lacking but honestly it wasn't too hard to figure out even though I have very little bike knowledge. Watched some youtube videos on adjusting the disk brakes but that was it. Still, I am loving it and very happy with the purchase.
When you ride how much time do you spend going downhill ? I see plenty of people round my way with full suss or trail hardtails. Yet to be overtaken by any of them on my xc hardtail, going up hill or downhill. Unless you live by a trail centre or mountain disregard all this low slack long bs.
Nope, they still handle better, and are more flexible. I'm sure I could smoke tons of people on my AM hardtail in both directions, and if one is sure the parts spec out of the box is going to be compromised (especially in terms of fork, brakes, and tires), then the long/low/slack is going to be infinitely more forviging than a purebred XC-Race setup, which basically demands proper suspension performance and skilled rider input at times.
Completely agree. I know I personally do want to upgrade to a 29er with disk brakes, and an adjustable shock would be nice...but every hill I go down I've pedaled up! Why optimize for the briefest part of the ride?
An informative yet biased review. I feel like the Commencal Meta ht, Marin San Quiten, Vitus Sentier, NS hardtails, specialized fuse, Norcos hardtails, ghost bikes, etc. all offer legitimate spec’d hardtails for the $1000 price point. Most reviews are on 🇬🇧 branded
That frame has always looked impressively good - I just have to figure that whoever does the test riding for GT just doesn't ride steep, fast, or loose trails, because all their bikes carry those same issues. They're short, steep, and overly taut for purpose, and I really want them to finally make something with the geometry of a Force, but packaged in a Sensor and Zaskar package.... but I've been waiting for the better part of a decade for them to get the clue bird, and it just hasn't happened.
@@tehllama42 Have you not seen the Updated Sensor? It has great geometry. It's definitely about time that they updated their hardtails though. It's kind of confusing how the Zaskar has a very progressive reach number, but such a steep HTA.
@@shrimpfriedrice494 Thanks for pointing me to that: they did finally get that right - but it's identical in my sizing area to a 2014 Instinct in terms of travel, HTA, Reach, and ETT, with shorter chainstays and steeper STA. My local GT dealer closed, so I stopped tracking those, although if I transplant that same shock to my setup I'd be on a 160/140mm bike, and for the cost I'm on carbon everything compared to whatever budget build exists... but I'd at least get to move over my wheelset.
@@shrimpfriedrice494 With a different fork/shock/stem/bars that I'm running and R9 settings I prefer, it's pretty close (150/130mm, similar contact point locations),
Interesting.... As soon as you started reading out the spec on the Saracen and it mentioned Schwalbe tyres i knew there'd be issues there. They seem to make tyres out of paper! I've been steering clear of them for bit now. Surprising trump card though.
All these reviews and comparatives saying XC geometry is wrong and extreme oriented downhill geometry is perfect are so stupid. Try the slacker bike for a 70 km marathon race with 30 km uphill and say the same.
@@th_js I've only had two dropper posts, one from e*thirteen which was horrifically unreliable. The other being the OneUp v1 which has been completely reliable so I'm pretty satisfied.
They gave Spectral bike of the year last month, you commented on that saying you want to see more YT videos. 🧐 th-cam.com/video/yCgqk4r-OY0/w-d-xo.html
Don't buy new keep your old stuff IT DOES THE SAME FECKING JOB .Still keeping me Commencal Meta 55 even tho it's 2010 👌👍 SAVED A FEW GRAND NOT BUYING EVERY FEW YEARS 👍👌
Stephen Brundrett yeah! Still driving that Model T! Who needs all those modern car technology anyway! Oops, we’re taking about bikes. Who needs modern bike technology anyway! There is a big difference between the a 2019, 2009, 1999, and 1989 mountain bikes. Some folks like vintage cars, some don’t. Some like vintage bikes, some like the new technology. Hmmmm, brings up the question; I wonder why a person who is so ardently supportive of buying used and/or keeping his old bike is watching a video about modern mountain bikes? Hmmmm🤔
@@richarde1355 TH-cam suggest & you sound like an electric bike type of guy, you wanna slag another dude off because he knows he just the same speed on a 9yr old bike and doesn't have to upgrade components again on top of the bike expense. You must be an amazing guy buying an electric bike every few years 🤦😂
Who payed you for that? XD my enduro hardtail was well below that budget (Lyrik 2step nx drivetrain with X01 crankset) i could add a Giant dropper and still would fit within budget it's not budget
"Now don't worry, you can get quite a lot of bike for that (1,000 pounds) money"...Are you guys really so first-world that you think riders 'worry' that they won't get a good bike for under a 1,000 pounds? really? talk about snobbish wankers....
What do you think of Alex's top choice? Let us know in the comments!
All that video was a waste. Tell them to buy the Vitus sentier.
Still on 360p
@@IPlayVidyaGames Agreed.
The ultimate point of the video was spot on - that the right frame geometry trumps compromises made in the spec elsewhere... that being said there are likely better options, just not ones that are readily available in a test fleet to meet up for this test.
Check this hardtail. this is pretty cool too
th-cam.com/video/IoIcRvpFaM0/w-d-xo.html
I feel like a budget bike video should include more explanations on how angles/lengths etc effect ride.
th-cam.com/video/zfX7GSG3G2M/w-d-xo.html
@@hindesite thanks bro I've seen this one but you'll help a lot of other people out👍
If I had a spare grand for a trail hardtail, it's pretty difficult to look past the Vitus sentier
Did you buy this one? I am thinking about buying it during the next months
Its so annoying because im in love with the sentier but it doesnt ship to germany
I want a Sentier but they're never in stock! Damn Corona
Great overview, though I don't really understand why only trail oriented geometry is considered 'modern' nowadays? The top choice here looks fine for trails but for XC it would be the worst by far. When saying the other bikes have 'conversative' geometry that sounds kinda negative, but they only serve a different purpose and there is nothing wrong with them per se. Cheers!
Daniel Suttor My guess is, that trail is the new standard for mtb, and feel that it represents quite accurately what people do when they mountain bike.
Yeah but you still need to descend on a xc bike, I never understood why xc bikes had to be so twitchy and couldn’t be designed to descend better.
Great comment.
XC race bikes are now getting longer and slacker so I guess the more technical modern tracks are pushing the old "conservative" geometry into obsolescence.
I am not into slacker fronts , the cornering is slow and sloppy....i prefer to bring the stem length shorter...gone are the days of 75-90 lengths...just saying..jack..in stralia...
For me is a budget MTB in a 350 to 750 pounds range.
Marin Nail Trail 6.
So one of these bikes 2nd hand :D
Good luck trying to ride down an actual mountain in that price range.
If you live in Europe or some parts of Asia, look at Decathlon! They have pretty good value models for your range. I got a hybrid bike from them.
@@Whambadambadamdoo I ride a Cube Aim Pro for 439€ on trails and it work great.
And with trail i mean real trails and not gravel roads.
Recently got a hardtail myself. EVERY mtn biker should have a hardtail in the stable! You'll thank me!
OK i will look after to build one whit a xc frame base with a 130mm instead of 100mm fork and all thé rest ... Ya it's another story
Is that a good start?
Bought a Sonder Signal Ti 29er hardtail this year, long, low, slack, RockShox Revelation fork, 2.5 front and 2.4rear tyres-loving it-call it my Monster truck since it seems to roll over pretty much everything.....
I think Vitus Sentier VR needed to be included, excellent geometry, very confidence inspiring, slack, aggressive, very nicely specced for the money, great tyre selection from the factory and a 140mm debonair Rockshox Sector fork... Really nice..
I ABSOLUTELY love my vitus..
Somehow i hate that '' confidence inspiring '' term so much its cringy for me.
@@ericf5976 what so you think about the 2020 models?
“Since when is $1000 considered ‘cheap’??” Well, when you want a high quality mountain bike, $1000 is at the lower end. It’s all relative. $1000 is really cheap if you’re buying a car. $1000 is really expensive if you’re buying a new winter coat. Some people actually like to spend a decent chunk of change on their favorite hobby to make it more enjoyable.
I had a Saracen mantra back in 2002, and really rated it back then. With a few upgrades it out performed many much more expensive bikes.
I have saracen mantra trail 2018 I very like this bike!!!
I would have to agree. Good modern geometry is key consideration when looking to buy a bike. Components can be upgraded as the brake/wear out, but you can’t change the geometry of your frame quite as easily
Great video!!! I was surprised not to see links to the bikes in the description.
This was one of the least fan boy type review video I have seen in long time. Well done TY.
Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for watching! Here's some other reviews you might like.
th-cam.com/video/iDqPutpDCv8/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/L19YVg6vE20/w-d-xo.html
finally starting to see drip down geo on budget bikes. would love if these were frame only
the raidon fork is really hard to set up, the smallest change in air pressure can make it become absolutely insensitive on small bumps, or lose all the bottom out resistance. If set correctly tho, i think it becomes so much better than the rs recon. Having tried both i can say that the recon has got so much more stiction (try slowly putting your weight on the handlebars and you'll see the fork compressing like it's "indexed", it doesn't go down smoothly at all while the suntour looks a lot smoother), and suffers from a thing that bothers me so much: it loses so much grease from the seals! the stanchions are ALWAYS covered in grease! This also leads me to think that it ingests a lot of mud, while the raidon keeps going for seasons without needing any service which is important for a beginner. The motion control damper is an open bath damper while the raidon's damper, while not offering any compression adjustments (at least on my model), is sealed.
I'd still be willing to take that Saracen and then change the fork when it fails and add a budget Brand X dropper myself.
I do this)))
Woah. Im this early.. First 400 viewer.. Loving the paint job of the giant..
Hans Dampf rear with Nobby Nic front? Isn't the Hans Dampf a more agressive tire?
You're right, that doesn't make a lot of sense.
Yeah, that's strange! Maybe to do with lug profile, Hans' lugs are more sideways than Nic's.
They're pretty similar in terms of lug size, but I think the Hans Dampf has too close lug spacing to make a good front tire. I have ridden a couple demos that had Hans Dampf as a front and I kept feeling like the tire wanted to slide/scoot over hard pack and rocky terrain rather than dig and bite. I think the HD is better suited as a rear tire to go with something like the Magic Mary.
@@thatguythatdoesstuff7448 Yeah, I've ridden both too. Best combo until now is New Hans Dampf rear and Magic Mary front. Nobby Nic isn't insanely grippy, but I've had it as a front tyre and it served me surprisingly well for what it is.
I’ll stick to maxxis
These are solid videos for comparing similar bikes, but you really need to re-think your categorization and video premise here. How hard is it to title this "$1000 MTB Hardtail Group test"? Call a spade a spade. A $1000 Cannondale Cujo isn't "budget" when you can get a Cannondale Trail for $720 and a Cannondale Catalyst for $525. Are those good bikes? Would they hold up to this type of riding? I'll never know, because bike reviewers who think two models up from entry-level is "budget" make it difficult to find any useful information. Picking the cheapest spec of the top-end model =/= budget.
I just bought the GT Zaskar 2021 Elite. Should be arriving from Chain Reaction this coming Tuesday. Id be curious to see your review on this bike
Have a look at the voodoo hoodoo 2018 it’s got air forks Shimano hydros and a Shimano Deore 1x10 with a clutch and maxxis ardent tires
When you know that they only care about DH, and forget about XC and other bikes thats designed to be all-rounder bikes
All-rounder = trail
I ride the cujo. I put 3.0 tyres on it so I dont smack the pedals all the time and I love it but I am old and fat and slow. I dont ride like a madman so I have no complaints on the slightly steep geometry. I do wish they would specify that the rear is not a boost 148 but a boost 141 rear hub.... Effing qr hubs in boost sizing are hard to find and spendy.
Budget is below £500 I say😂
Nah not really that just too cheap you get what you pay for
Would you buy the cheapest parachute?
Mountain biking is dangerous enough.... Catastrophically failing a bike is super scary and likely a trip to the ER.
Plus cheap stuff constantly is our of tune, shifts horribly (another ER trip when your bike fails to stay in gear while wheeling off of ledges), and the wheel sets bend like noodles.
A cheap bike is fine for commuting but a serious liability out 10+ miles in the wilderness with finicky mechanism or injury due to a component failure.
@@johnnygunz2300 My current bike is a Voodoo Hoodoo. It's a budget bike but not cheap (£550). I can assure you it won't catastrophically fail.
The frame won't snap and with Shimanos hydraulic brakes and 1*10 groupset it's very reliable. I've had mechanicals but I ride prepared so it's not an issue. They're part of mountain biking.
Things go out of tune on all bikes which is why you have to service them. The rims won't "bend like noodles", I've got a mavic rim on the back and its been running great for 2 years and same for front rim (have had to fix a couple dings along the way).
It isn't as luxurious, light and efficient as more expensive bikes but its very capable, safe and most importantly fun.
But to answer your question. Yes. All equipment has to be verified and tested as safe for use so if I research and deem it safe I'll buy it.
@@jgilly3362 You can get a good bike and good components for around 500 you'll just struggle to ride it down Mont Sainte-Anne. Hydraulic brakes,1 by drivetrain , a decent fork. You just won't get things like a dropper, better tyres and lighter weight parts but they're all things that can be upgraded easily that aren't that expensive.
@@christianmallard6950 had to do the conversion to dollars. .... About$700.
In the US that is probably the bare minimum you can spend too get a proper bike. The voodoo seems like a fair deal at that price as well.
I think I read your initial comment incorrectly as there are solid options under 500 pounds.... In my opinion it would be the bare min I'd recommend a new rider to spend.
Most mountain bikers in my area (as in probably 75%) are running full suspension rigs since New England is extremely rocky. Unfortunately that really drives the budget up (deters allot of would be riders). You can ride hardtails (I do sometimes), but it's way harder to keep up with other riders and I tend to only use it solo or on less technical rocky terrain.... I bend decent rims on my hard tail all the time, but I'm also 220 lbs, stocky, and ride hard.
I am thinking about buying the kona kahuna 2021 can you give me your opinion?
I think its difficult to look at a hard tail as a downhill bike and going fast . I have a 2018 breezer storm expert hard tail and it was $ 900 out the door . It has a head tube angle of 69 which gets me down fairly steep declines but I am not barreling down . For me climbing is actually more important because if thats an awful experience I might as well get an E bike . The key is learning how to ride the bike . I did add a dropper post with a 100 mm of travel . I could have gone as much as 120 but that 20mm is not that big a deal and it lets someone shorter than me still ride the bike
No Ragley Big Al? Just got one the other day, and it's ace
I'm with you on that, I love mine.
The video is nice and informative but no where near budget. I'm looking into getting back to mtb riding, just recreational XC, prices are crazy. £1000+ pounds for hard tail is not cheap, MTB is becoming more and more expensive, soon will be like some rich people sport/hobby only. Standards are changed, new gadgets every year, insane. For people like myself(family,mortgage,cars etc.) good quality mtb is unreachable, when 10-12 years ago was £1000, not is £3000-5000. Why most bike magazines review expensive bike most of the time, when a 16-18-20 years old will be able to buy £3000/$4000 bike?
I'm currently eyeing Trek Marlin 7 and Vitus Nucleus for XC, hopefully they will not be complete crap(judging by price range and components).
Im with u ma dude !
Just ordered the vitus nucleus vr, seems like it will be a great bike
I’ve had a trek marlin 6 for a good few years. Since 2015 I’ve used it for XC and even downhill trails it’s been great
10:12 Didn't you also imply that in the beginning of this same review?
Why choose the Cannondale Cujo and not the Trail one?
Good shout, I would of like to have seen the Cannondale Trail in the mix instead of a plus tyre version......!Didn't really make any sense to me....?!
@@ronaldomac566 I have a Cannondale trail 8 with 29 inch tires, it's a great bang for the buck for $485. It's not high performing, and has cheaper components, but if it gives me fun, low maintenance, and I can use it for everything, that's what matters to me.
Trail is shit
I'm intrigued that the Mantra didn't run the Hans D' on the front, would swapping them around make a significant difference?
I have the Mantra elite, and it's a fun bike, which is what I got it for, but fast it is not. It definitely gives up some speed compared to more race inspired geometries. Its usually about 5 minutes slower per loop (45 vs 40) on my local trails compared to my racing hardtail. Out of saddle steeps climbs are nearly pointless, and going flat out through fast, flat sections is not its forte. If you dont intend to race it though It's a load of fun on the downhills and in bike parks.
Giant geometry, bank for the buck factor, you can come close but, you'll never beat it. Yeah, everyone rides one but, ever thought why they do for a moment?
Geometry is king, if you haven't tried the new longer slacker bikes you're missing out. Correct me if I'm wrong but Transition popularized and perfected the new geometry, we owe them big time.
Transition were inspired by what Chris Porter and GeoMetron were doing. GeoMetron and Nicolai still have the more extreme of the “modern” geometry. Chris Porter first got onto this direction after riding a Mondraker with Forward Geometry. But that seems conservative-or at least normal-up against a lot of bikes today.
Please make a review for Canyon Grand Canyon AL or AL SL bike. I really need a review for it and nobody does it.
Why only 360p
Would the GT be your 2nd choice as I’m looking at this bike in particular 😁
The Saracen has a rear through axle therefore it wins.
3500 usd budget has to be an aggresive Hardtail what are some good bikes?
I tried the stache 7 29+ or should i buy a chinese carbon frame fox 36factory 120t
Full shimano xtr 9000 group set race face chester pedals dt swiss rims tires continental x king $3500with tax included
This will be my first mtb
Santa Cruz Chameleon Aluminum, frame only, build it out based on your priorities.
I bought a 2020 devinci kobain ht for 1270 plus taxes Canadian wicket bike for the price even though the Kenda plus tires are definitely lacking!
I think you missed the understand of budget... they’re not high end no, but they’re not budget (5-750/800) max is budget really
you should also look at the specialized Fuze 27.5
mtb is not about having fancy bikes its abkut having fun and shreding
As always, you review bikes based on downhill and ignore XC
It's just the times man. Popularity is king when it comes to video format. People are into all mountain style riding. No one I know, and no one they know rides XC. Manufacturers are constantly out of stock of all mountain bikes in Large and sometimes Medium.
I think people that are getting into (or back into) mountain biking are electing to go for trail riding that suits the bikes being shown.
Whaaa? It's a budget hardtail, anybody serious about XC racing is going to either spend more, of focus on a different set of things. In this budget range, that's a bike that has to do everything, which this test reflects. This is oddly on area I'll defent BikeRadar for having the right idea.
@UCSUu-G_t4sNM78cGQqp2ykw Ah, quite right... In my mind, there's too many frames already designed for just that, and plenty of direct sales options on commodity frames that achieve exactly what you're suggesting... for a bike reviewer, in this price range, they'd just be traveling back in time, and that's not necessarily interesting content.
Although, on trails like that gravel bikes and flat-bar monstercross setups are actually quick excellent, in which case a USED bike where you get to choose a few flash parts to bring it up to date is going to be far better than something new.
@@tehllama42 I have a gravel bike too. It has it's place, it's a great all rounder for asphalt and very smooth offroad surfaces (like gravel), and it's also a great road bike if you're not obsessed with Strava times. But your ride can turn into torture pretty damn quickly (meaning you'll rattle your brain and eyes out) even on just slightly rough dirt roads. The suspension fork was invented for a reason. 🙃
Yeah, XC bikes had quite some time to evolve, so many of them are so similar. In this price range there are oodles of XC hardtails. Most will have an alu frame, 100mm fork, 69-69.5 head angle, ~74 degree seat angle, 425-435 chainstays, and clearance for 2.2-2.3 tyres. Really just select the one that offers the best bits for the money and you're set... No video needed. 😀
@@HollyBoni Yeah, I'm one of the oddballs who takes road bikes into trail bike territory, so torture is a relative concept. Importantly, you're right that there are tons of examples in the 100mm hartail 69°HTA setup that are differentiated by quality of bolt-on parts more than geometry, so yes.
So the good old American classic *2019 Trek* wasn't included in your hardtail testing l see...
Much *respectively* I noticed that the American brand of bikes on this channel gets very little recognition of quality...
The 2019 *Marin San Quin* wasn't honored as a mention as well...
They can only review the bikes the brands offer them.
According to GT spec sheet the head tube angle is 68.5 not 69.5.
My steel hardtail with a 64.5 degree ht angle is a beast at technical climbs
How about Dartmoor Hornet 😉
Pls check out the white XC 290 pro. IT comes with dt swiss opm fork and has deore xt gears. Great cross country Bike for the price.
Fathom good?
Voodoo Mambo 27.5+, Recon RL 130mm, Maxxis Rekon TR, SRAM 1x11, good geometry, £650 on offer down from £800.
That's more budget & the geometry/spec is in line if not better than these bikes.
For me £1000 is not cheap! I bought a trek marlin 5 for £470 ($580). I'd like to see a review on bikes at this price.
The bike is solid and my Ebike conversion went great. th-cam.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L Very smooth ride at 30mph with no problems (135 miles ridden so far). The picture is a bit deceiving - there is WAY less space in the center of the frame than it shows. The suspension connection takes up the entire thing. So I needed to attach my battery on the bottom of the frame and my controller on the top. Instructions for assembly were lacking but honestly it wasn't too hard to figure out even though I have very little bike knowledge. Watched some youtube videos on adjusting the disk brakes but that was it. Still, I am loving it and very happy with the purchase.
When you ride how much time do you spend going downhill ? I see plenty of people round my way with full suss or trail hardtails. Yet to be overtaken by any of them on my xc hardtail, going up hill or downhill. Unless you live by a trail centre or mountain disregard all this low slack long bs.
Nope, they still handle better, and are more flexible. I'm sure I could smoke tons of people on my AM hardtail in both directions, and if one is sure the parts spec out of the box is going to be compromised (especially in terms of fork, brakes, and tires), then the long/low/slack is going to be infinitely more forviging than a purebred XC-Race setup, which basically demands proper suspension performance and skilled rider input at times.
Completely agree. I know I personally do want to upgrade to a 29er with disk brakes, and an adjustable shock would be nice...but every hill I go down I've pedaled up! Why optimize for the briefest part of the ride?
@@kevinvermeer9011 Because its the most fun part of the ride. We go up, so we can have fun going down.
An informative yet biased review. I feel like the Commencal Meta ht, Marin San Quiten, Vitus Sentier, NS hardtails, specialized fuse, Norcos hardtails, ghost bikes, etc. all offer legitimate spec’d hardtails for the $1000 price point. Most reviews are on 🇬🇧 branded
Only thing he liked about the Giant Fathom 2 were the tires? Haha was the only bike that only received criticism
I've got 70 degree head angle 100mil fork 440 mil chainstay I do just fine on decents
80% rider skill 20% bike
No Trek Roscoe. Probably the most popular bike in terms of sales at this price point.
Sam Lewis it’s basically a fathom 2, giant even makes the frame
See a lot more specialized hardrocks out there personally
Id just buy the raleigh tokul 3 tbh and just get a new fork and brakes and boom very good hardtail
Why dochaps bikes have to have bad geometry. Surely it cost the same to give something a little more reach.
What kind of Giant bike was that?
Josef Zacharias fathom 2 27.5
I'd prefer my cube acid 2020 thanks.
The zaskar would be the winner for me. It's has so much pedigree and class.
That frame has always looked impressively good - I just have to figure that whoever does the test riding for GT just doesn't ride steep, fast, or loose trails, because all their bikes carry those same issues. They're short, steep, and overly taut for purpose, and I really want them to finally make something with the geometry of a Force, but packaged in a Sensor and Zaskar package.... but I've been waiting for the better part of a decade for them to get the clue bird, and it just hasn't happened.
@@tehllama42 Have you not seen the Updated Sensor? It has great geometry.
It's definitely about time that they updated their hardtails though. It's kind of confusing how the Zaskar has a very progressive reach number, but such a steep HTA.
@@shrimpfriedrice494 Thanks for pointing me to that: they did finally get that right - but it's identical in my sizing area to a 2014 Instinct in terms of travel, HTA, Reach, and ETT, with shorter chainstays and steeper STA. My local GT dealer closed, so I stopped tracking those, although if I transplant that same shock to my setup I'd be on a 160/140mm bike, and for the cost I'm on carbon everything compared to whatever budget build exists... but I'd at least get to move over my wheelset.
@@tehllama42 Not sure what you mean. The sensor has way different geometry compared to a 2014 instinct.
@@shrimpfriedrice494 With a different fork/shock/stem/bars that I'm running and R9 settings I prefer, it's pretty close (150/130mm, similar contact point locations),
Interesting.... As soon as you started reading out the spec on the Saracen and it mentioned Schwalbe tyres i knew there'd be issues there. They seem to make tyres out of paper! I've been steering clear of them for bit now. Surprising trump card though.
Dam im poor .. £1000 would be a dream lol
why in 360p resolution only ??
TH-cam hadn't prosessed the video yet.
Play at 1.25x speed :D I'd fall asleep listening to him speaking so slow.
good job
Lower, slacker, longer wins again. What a surprise.
All these reviews and comparatives saying XC geometry is wrong and extreme oriented downhill geometry is perfect are so stupid. Try the slacker bike for a 70 km marathon race with 30 km uphill and say the same.
Why the hell can't I make this video full screen?
Idk man the Vitus Sentier is hard to beat
I rather bikes come with regular seatposts because I never like the stock dropper posts.
BikeYoke Revive ftw.
@@th_js OneUp for me, cheaper, slimmer stack height, and more travel
@@brauljo It's reliability isn't even comparable to Revive.
@@th_js I've only had two dropper posts, one from e*thirteen which was horrifically unreliable. The other being the OneUp v1 which has been completely reliable so I'm pretty satisfied.
@@brauljo Yeah, I'm sure it's good, but when gets sag, you need to send it for warranty "repair", on the Revive you just turn a screw.
It really bothers me that you Guys never Take in a Bike from Canyon ....
They gave Spectral bike of the year last month, you commented on that saying you want to see more YT videos. 🧐 th-cam.com/video/yCgqk4r-OY0/w-d-xo.html
Did canyon offer them a bike and they refused it?
here in the Philippines these are what we consider higher end bikes haha
Vitus Sentier would beat them all
These bikes are under £1000 *bikes are £999* yeah I guess that's under 1k but not exactly budget bikes
Forget these.. for £999 get a Whyte 805!
the cannondale bike is a jojo referrence
1000 pounds of what?
Maple Syrup
Chicken feathers
pls subtitles
Whyte 805 would have beaten all of these IMO
Saracen have zero customer service. Avoid
360p
Don't buy new keep your old stuff IT DOES THE SAME FECKING JOB .Still keeping me Commencal Meta 55 even tho it's 2010 👌👍 SAVED A FEW GRAND NOT BUYING EVERY FEW YEARS 👍👌
Stephen Brundrett yeah! Still driving that Model T! Who needs all those modern car technology anyway!
Oops, we’re taking about bikes. Who needs modern bike technology anyway!
There is a big difference between the a 2019, 2009, 1999, and 1989 mountain bikes.
Some folks like vintage cars, some don’t. Some like vintage bikes, some like the new technology.
Hmmmm, brings up the question; I wonder why a person who is so ardently supportive of buying used and/or keeping his old bike is watching a video about modern mountain bikes? Hmmmm🤔
@@richarde1355 TH-cam suggest & you sound like an electric bike type of guy, you wanna slag another dude off because he knows he just the same speed on a 9yr old bike and doesn't have to upgrade components again on top of the bike expense.
You must be an amazing guy buying an electric bike every few years 🤦😂
Who payed you for that? XD my enduro hardtail was well below that budget (Lyrik 2step nx drivetrain with X01 crankset) i could add a Giant dropper and still would fit within budget it's not budget
Terrible all terrible I smell sponsorship and everyone is forgetting about Raleigh tokul 2
You lost me at the beginning with the accent
"Now don't worry, you can get quite a lot of bike for that (1,000 pounds) money"...Are you guys really so first-world that you think riders 'worry' that they won't get a good bike for under a 1,000 pounds? really? talk about snobbish wankers....
Budget...$2000aud.
Rofl. Maybe if you can claim buying an mtb on your tax return for business reasons.
$600 is budget.