Fixing The Most Common Problem With Lionel O27 Remote Turnouts - Insulating Track Pins!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2020
- Lionel's #1122 and #5121/5122 O27 remote turnouts are extremely reliable. However, many new hobbyists are not aware of a small item that is necessary to make the turnouts operate properly - insulated track pins.
Here, we take a look at this most common problem and its easy solution.
Toy Train Tips And Tricks is a channel devoted to the operation, repair, history, and collecting of classic 3-rail O and O27 gauge trains made by Lionel, Marx, K-Line, Menards, and other manufacturers.
Keep the trains running!
Lionel Trains Pocket Price Guide 1901 - 2023 [Affiliate Link]: amzn.to/3LEAxK8
Setting up my family's train set from the mid 50's for my grand kids and this helped a lot, thanks!
Glad it helped!
I had a pair of 1952 turnouts and didn''t know about the dead spots. I had one in my yard and my Lionel 1615 switcher would stall on that turnout. I went through my stash and found a later version and discovered the difference. i replace the 1952 with a later version and the 1615 worked fine. Good detail in your videos.
Glad to be helpful!
Just bought a pair of 1122's a couple weeks ago. They look like new/rails are all shiny/no rust but look different from the ones I used to have. They are the 1952 version. The year I was born. They're aging a lot better than I am. Got the box, paperwork, and controller too. Thanks for the info.
👍
Just ordered two brand new 027 Turnouts.Glad you showed me that I need isolated pins in those inner rails.
Great! I love solving problems!
WOW! So helpful. Trying to get my childhood LIONEL working again. Had an envelope my dad had left with the system with the little plastic insulation pins but I had no idea what they were. What an ah-ha moment. Thanks so much. Will be following you from this moment forward!
Thanks. Yours is a common problem, which is why I made the video.
Thanks for this excellent video, I am putting together a Lionel model and I had this problem that I did not know how to solve until I saw this wonderful video.
Glad it helped
Thank you. I was having the problem with the left turnout. I will replace the two pins with plastics ones! Haven't set up my train in 20+ years. My grandsons also thank you!
Happy to help! Merry Christmas!
This is great info. I just unearthed a couple of Marx manual turnouts like this, but I learned something.
Me arx turnouts do not require these insulating pins FYI.
Very helpful advice, thank you from a Marx tins lover .
Thank you! I never met a train I didn't like.
Very helpful info.
Glad to hear it!
What's interesting is I bought these turnouts with everything in it and has a piece of paper that says "Insulating pins go inside rails." A scared text thats lost when working on these turnouts. Thankfully we have a video now. Thank you.
You were lucky to find the paper! Thanks for commenting.
thank you, solved my switch problem
Thank you for the explanation. I have 1952 and 1953 versions and was wondering why they acted differently.
I was perplexed about mine for years until I found the answer buried in an old Lionel service manual. I find it's a little-known hiccup with these turnouts.
Very good 😊 thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks
When I was building my previous layout I was buying Lionel 042 remote switches and many of them acted like they were possessed so I disabled the electrical switch mechanism in them. I preferred the K-Line 042 switches and even bought a dozen from one seller.
I haven't used the Lionel O42 turnouts, but I have several K-Lines. They work well for me.
1. As a kid with a lot of O-27 track and turnouts, I had no idea about the fiber pin. This can really frustrate someone and discourage them from the hobby. As I got older, I learned always read the instructions.
2. I got all 3 style O-27 turnouts. I just received the 1952 set and saw the difference 😲
"All 3 styles". Don't forget the #1121, made from 1937-1951 (except 1942-45)! This one looks like the O gauge O22's "little brother", but lacks the non-derail feature completely. :-)
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks oh yeah forgot about that one. Now I have to go on ebay and buy one now lol.
ive used a toothpick and cut a small piece of a notecard and stuck it under the toothpick so the rail cant make contact at all if it gets pushed together
Nice tip.
Thank you
You're welcome
Wow you really need to Your Lionel trains & tracks & trackage. I remember something similar to this on Ho scale especially that of Atlas track early brass & not knowing that was code 100. Every time a train would go over plastic potion of that insulated track certain trains
stopped at those points making it annoying & had to keep coming to nudge the engine. There was a device called a snap relay that overcame that problem. I learned something from watching this.👍✅
Great! Thanks for watching! When I was a kid we had a large HO layout and I recall we had to modify our early Atlas turnouts with jumper wires. They later fixed that design flaw.
Nice narrative
Thank you!!!
I decided to scratch the lionel and replace with Marx switches , problem solved. You should see my custom painted Commodore Vanderbilts, a real eye ketcher .
Extremely helpful! I'm trying to do an oval figure 8 and having some wiring issue though it seems. When the train passes certain sections, it just stops. Any advice? I've been scouring forums trying to understand how to wire. Noob here :)
See the reply to "Fun with #1122 and #5122 Turnouts"
Any update on your video for modifying these for constant voltage? Your videos are great, very informative and well thought out.
Coming soon. The holidays have kept me busy with other projects.
I plan to start shooting the video today...
Thanks for the info. What if the train is approaching from the other direction. In the video the train is going from left to right(where the pins are. What If the train is going from right to left (where no pins are)
The automatic operation only applies when the train approaches from the "trailing point" side. From the "facing point" side there is no danger of the points causing a derailment as the train will simply follow in the direction of the switch points. HOWEVER, if you want the train to ALWAYS choose one direction over the other you can add your own insulated rail section ahead of the turnout and wire it to the appropriate switch terminal. For example, when going into a reverse loop if you want the train to always enter the loop by the straight route, an insulated section ahead of the turnout can make that happen.
Good info, thanks, I've shifted to Fast Trak for my layout but I've been thinking of putting in an elevated track using Menards track and i was wondering about using some remotely operated turnouts on it. Do you know where you can still buy these switches and turn outs?
eBay, Tranz.com, or local train shows are a good bet
Great vid! I have an issue- I have 3 turnouts together in a yards section of my layout, but the 3rd turnout and section is dead (no power). How can I fix that without soldering wires or using a separate transformer? Thanks!
Without seeing the specific orientation of your turnouts the problem is difficult to diagnose. However, you can always add additional power feeders to the section behind the third turnout. If you are averse to soldering, use an additional lockon as I did in this video: th-cam.com/video/FSY54UPuTOc/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the video. I added the insulating connectors to the switches as shown and got my Santa Fe Lionel set going again.
I have it set up as a smaller oval within a larger oval with the switches allowing the train to go between the two.
After working for a couple days and not changing anything, the throttle when I turn up the power goes off and blinks green, which I believe indicates there is a short somewhere. This happens even when nothing is on the tracks. I have tried to check all connections to make sure that the insulation underneath the center rail hasn’t come off anywhere, but that’s about the extent of my diagnosis… any idea what would be shorting the circuit?
That definitely sounds like a dead short of some kind. My search would go as follows: 1) Disconnect the transformer from the track and see what happens. This will eliminate the transformer as the problem. 2) reconnect the transformer and disconnect any control wires from the turnouts. This will tell you if the problem is in a turnout or in the other track. 3) The best way to find a short in the track sections is to disconnect one section at a time and see if the short is fixed. With your loop, try breaking the loop into halves - then quarters, etc. This will help you find a bad piece sooner. Good luck!
Thank you did not know this
Thanks for watching!
My locomotive 2-6-4 keeps tripping the e unit into neutral everytime it enters the turnout from the curve but not on the straight section how do I stop this turnout from doing that. Thanks Dana
P.S. I did finally get the semaphore working with the proper 145c track clip thanks for your help
I wish I could give you a quick easy answer on this one. Unfortunately, there are numerous reasons this may be happening. The locomotive goes into neutral because it is momentarily losing power. There are many reasons this could happen. Sometimes it's a design flaw. For example, Lionel's number 221 steamers do not like to run through 031 turnouts as their pickup rollers are spaced properly 4027 turnouts, but 031 turnouts make them stop. Sometimes the problem is dirty track. Sometimes the problem is dirty Wheels. Sometimes the problem is dirty pick up wheels. Sometimes the problem is a loose pickup that slides just enough out of the way on a curve to lose contact with the rail. In fact, I have one particular locomotive that does not like to run through one particular switch, but it runs through all of the other switches fine, and identical locomotives run through the problem switch fine. Look for some sort of electrical problem and troubleshoot from there.
Hi Mike - I'm having the same problem with a number of Lionel 042 remote turnouts. Apparently, it seems to be a common issue. I've gotten it to work " a little better" by insulating the edges of the diverter plate with tape. I agree with everything you said on possible causes, but is there anyway of doing a video on the possible fixes? The sparking and e-unit cycling put a pretty big damper on a running session and I really don't want to switch to K-line turnouts, as they are getting pretty hard to find.
Thanks again for all the great work!
Question - Does anyone know if a magna-traction locomotives affect the activity of the auto switching non derail feature of the post war version turnout? The locomotive I want to run on the line with the switches has magna-traction and a number of the switches had issues realigning as it went over it. I used another locomotive without magna-traction an the turnouts seem to work better. Just wondering if anyone else had similar issues?
Magnetraction has no effect. Check to see if the wheels on the magnatraction locomotive are dirty. Electrical contact is the key.
Hi mike good video I’m trying to runa o27 lay out but on the switches there’s a weird humming sound from somewhere in the track. I was hoping you could give me some insight to this problem.
If the switches are humming, they are receiving power from somewhere. Step one is to check the insulating pins as in the video. Step 2 would be to check the wiring in the switch. I hope this helps!
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks I’m not to sure on the model number of the turnouts but they are manual switches and the humming is only from the diverging track but short the layout to the point where you get a shock from touching the track but doesn’t trip the transformer
@@waterlevelproductions482 Ok. If you are getting that with manual switches the problem is most likely a bad insulator somewhere on the center rail. It may be in the switch or a piece of track nearby.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks I worded that wrong they are electric switches but don’t automatically throw if lined incorrectly
@@waterlevelproductions482 If they are electric switches by Lionel, K-Line, or MTH they SHOULD automatically throw unless they are pre-1952.
Hello! I just bought some 027 turnouts, 042 radius. They do work, but are somewhat stiff moving from one position to the other. Is there something I can do to make the action move freely? Thanks! I appreciate your help!!
Remove the switch housing to access the mechanism. Use a little plastic -safe grease on the moving parts. That should do it.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks
Thank you Sir! I will give that a try.
Hello!
Just wanted to let you know your recommendation for the turnouts worked. They actuate easily now! Thanks again!!
I have two No. 5167 turnouts in an 027 loop. When I manually roll a boxcar through either turnout the back wheels entering the turnout will cause the wheels to give off sparks. This happens when my switcher goes through it too. When the boxcar sits on the turnout the motor chatters. I have insulators on the two inner rails as directed also have one on the power rail “exiting straight thru” as it enters a side track which I’m able to turn the power off on that section of track. Any idea what’s going on?
Can you provide a simple diagram of your setup? It sounds as if the common and ground may be reversed to the track on the side of the turnout with the center insulator, but a visual would be helpful.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks That’s what it seemed like to me too, so, I looked behind the transformer and saw that my common lead (white) was on the red post and black was on the common post. I reversed the leads and they now matched the feeders, as far I could see. With my fingers crossed I turned the transformer up and pushed the boxcar thru-dang, that didn’t work-still sparkes. I needed to go home. I will be back to check the wiring underneath the layout and will keep you posted.
Another question: Is a controller wired to the turnout and if so, does the turnout function properly with the controller (but not a car on the track)?
Are there 3d files for the insulated pins for printing ?
www.tinkercad.com/things/7rt21BHyYJj-o-insulated-rail-joiner
Hi, I have a setup with two Lionel turnouts, a left and a right, hooked together. They support a loop within a loop. One of the turnouts has a reversed direction to support the loop. The turnouts are not any shown and are from about 1955. I cannot find a number on the turnouts. The turnout box looks identical to the controller with a red and green light on both sides. The controller does not work. If I remove the controller and "hard"wire the turnout with an alligator clip the switching sort of works. Do I need to support the derailing feature on both turnouts (not sure my turnout supports the derailing feature) with plastic pins? Do I need a plastic pin on the juncture of the two turnouts?
Without seeing exactly what you have, it's hard to determine the problem. However, try placing insulated pins on both inside rails on both turnouts. If it doesn't work - no harm done.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks Doing this works! Thanks!
@@EzraMann-xo3vm Great!!!
I have to take apart my 036 Lionel fastrack swicth track.And fix it.
I don't have any Fastrack, so I am unfamiliar with their assembly and disassembly. I wish I could help.
I don't think much of the 1122 - you cannot back a train car thru the curved side without trucks derailing! I have a bunch of them on a big layout. They're there just for LOOKS. I wish K-Line had made a drop-in replacement. Their O42 switch in O27 rail size is bulletproof.
Mike, do you have a video that shows how these turnouts are set and operated on a track? Thanks
Here they are in action! th-cam.com/video/3UMVVewd3Nw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=5WQD7GVH4vGJMwEr
Thanks Mike. How do the turnouts change position? Are you working the turn manually from a remote switch?
@@davidjacoboski4657 Everything on this layout was automatic. The turnouts are pre-wired to change to curve or straight when the metal wheels of the train approach (the reason for the insulated rail joints). Then, I ran one wire connecting the two turnouts on the right attaching the opposite connectors. So, when a train activated one turnout to curve, the other went straight and vice versa. (Although a couple of times in the video the bottom right turnout failed to throw). When everything worked right, the train would make 6 or 7 laps around the layout before the pattern repeated. The wiring info is in the video description as I recall.
@@davidjacoboski4657 Here's the description of how I did it. 3railfun.blogspot.com/2016/03/more-fun-with-non-derailing-turnouts.html
Thanks Mike. I’m new at this as my wife inherited her dad’s 1953 vintage train. I’m struggling on how to set up these automatic switches so they work just like the last video you shared.
What kind of voltage is used to test a turnout
Lionel turnouts should snap satisfactorily at 10-12 volts. If they require more juice, look for obstructions/dirt in the mechanism or loose wiring connections.
Thanks for the information I really appreciate it.
I have 2 Marx turn outs connected together. The loco derails on the second turnout. Suggestions? Thank you
Can you provide more information? How are the turnouts connected (which rails to which rails - end to end, back to back, etc)? Which direction does the locomotive derail? What locomotive model? There are lots of variables to consider.
Wow, okay, lots of scenarios. Be great if I could send you a picture. Is that possible. We ran this train as a kid and 60 yrs later trying how to figure this out.
@@cluckster51 mrmoore2001@gmail.com
You have a Lionel locomotive and Marx turnouts. There is a comparability issue if you don't modify the Marx turnouts. Watch this video beginning around the 4:50 mark: th-cam.com/video/Ejo0W8Kyyw0/w-d-xo.html
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks thank you. Do you sell your 3d inserts?
It’s been sometime since I built a layout
Since we r stuck inside I thought I’d give it another go
Last recall my issue with the turnout was, when the train would go through and make contact with the next connected track,
My engine would automatically reverse and I never tracked down what the issue was for a number of reasons one being which this was probably 10 years ago and technology and communication was not to the point that it is now also my local hobby shop K Val hobbies in Buffalo New York went out of business etc. so I am writing this comment do you now as I stare at my box of parts hoping that you may have an answer for me I’m going to begin assembly and see if I can fix the issue just by rebuilding from scratch
I will monitor my email and await your reply if by chance my issue sparks an idea in your head I do have insulating pens that was 3/4 of the way through my set up that I started playing with them granted I am a novice but I am handy for your interest I have three turnouts according to your description two of them appear to be postwar model 1122 there’s three of them two with a rounded edges and one with more square corner all black
I also have a section of rail that is a D coupler that I had pretty good luck with number 6019
Thank you for your time
There could be several causes for your problem, and a bit more info is needed to help diagnose it. 1) Does the train just spark, or does it short out and stop completely? 2) Which part of the turnout is involved (straight or diverging tracks)?
Nowhere in my NORAC rules book nor in our railroad timetable do they refer to them as “turnouts”. They are referred to as switches. Leading point switch. Trailing point switch. Spring switch. Switch stand, etc. The expression “turnout” is used by mechanical engineers and model railroaders. But I may just be asleep at the switch.
Per FRA, Code Of Federal Regulations, Title 49, Part 213: "[76 FR 18086, Apr. 1, 2011]
§ 213.133 Turnouts and track crossings generally.
(a) In turnouts and track crossings, the fastenings shall be intact and maintained so as to keep the components securely in place. Also, each switch, frog, and guard rail shall be kept free of obstructions that may interfere with the passage of wheels.
(b) Classes 3 through 5 track shall be equipped with rail anchoring through and on each side of track crossings and turnouts, to restrain rail movement affecting the position of switch points and frogs. For Class 3 track, this paragraph (b) is applicable September 21, 1999.)
(c) Each flangeway at turnouts and track crossings shall be at least 11⁄2 inches wide."
Technically, the "switch" includes only the movable points and the switch stand / motor. A "turnoiut" is the term for the COMPLETE installation, including the frog, guardrails, and other components.
CSX Louisville Division Timetable, July 1, 2003, Page 123: "SPEED THRU [sic] TURNOUTS AND SIDINGS Do not exceed 10 MPH through turnouts, crossovers, and sidings except where signal indications or special instructions permit higher speed."
Well hush my mouth. Dumb ol' NORAC@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks
@@cjcampo620 I'm looking at a document entitled "NORAC Signal Rules 11th Edition February 2018" Rule #105 says "Indicates the presence of a spring type turnout."
the O27 manual turnouts do not require the insulating pins correct?
That is correct. If there is no motor, there is no need for insulating pins. Their sole purpose is to activate the non-derail feature in motorized turnouts.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks Does that mean the manual turnouts are automatically non derailing? In other words, will the rail slide into the correct position when the train car wheels contact it?
No. Manual turnouts have no motor and thus will not turn in the appropriate direction by themselves. However, Lionel Postwar #1022 manual turnouts have a "power-routing" feature. If wired properly, power will only be applied to the track in the direction the turnout is thrown, creating a different type of "non-derail" feature. (Diagram to follow).
photos.app.goo.gl/7htB164i12nyqXaC6
Engineering nonsense from the outset, Maerklin electic Weichen have no such problem since the points are spring operated....
Perhaps, but you cannot do THIS with spring points alone. th-cam.com/video/1EsetYBN8yU/w-d-xo.html
That's what we call it a switch TRACK!
I use the the insulation from my16 gauge wire as an insulation pin .It has worked on my layout for years 🚂🚃🚃🚃
Great tip!