Hello there, it's me dylan159 (you can find a collection of my best circuits under this other name in my blog!). Thanks Brian for featuring both circuits in this video and for trying them out: you're still close to the diy community even after all those years. It's fun to look back at these reworks I did, you caught the spirit of them perfectly. You also made me aware of mictester's take, based on observations we agree on. Looking forward to the next one, Blue Pilot or whatever it will be! One tip about the Pilot: you probably know better than me, but 072 can make some funny crackly noises when overdriven. I use it as stand-in for "any op-amp" and it's often actually a very good choice noise and other performance wise, but you might want to try something else too in this case, as much as I'm against "op-amp rolling". And for you and everyone else, feel free to ask me any questions!
Ha I just found your reddit post from a couple years ago before I even realized you had commented here! Great job on this circuit! Sounds really good. Also listened to your demo of the blue pilot and wow! Will have to try it for myself! I agree with you on the 072. It's the only kind I have on hand atm but Is there an opamp you would recommend which breaks up better?
@@lichen8855 I haven't tested that many, but even if 4558 also shows phase reversal out of the common mode range (and that's my best guess), it seemed to behave better in these cases. probably also something more crude like 1458 or 358, watch out for the noise though!
I bought my Tumnus years ago, and I always loved it. My son recently started picking up the guitar, and he asked me for that Tumnus. It's now his, and I have to buy another one. It's such a great pedal. Even my 11 year old knows it!
I've gotten into DIY Pedals. So far I have built a Klon, King of Tone and Germanium Fuzz Faze. They all sound great. I'm hoping in the future to be able to build my son a one box pedal board. He's only 4 at the moment so I'm just planting the seeds.
Brian- I just got my Tumnus deluxe- third try buying used, but I hit the jackpot finally- it works, and I got it cheap. I thought I was buying a dirt pedal- I had no idea I was buying the best clean tone I've ever heard come out of my amp. This thing is amazing man- I'm sure you've heard that a million times, but there's 1 million + 1. The gain is a little odd, not what I'm used to- it's like it's a very low gain pedal until you flip the switch to "hot" and then pass about 1 o'clock- and then boom, there's all the gain you've been looking for all the sudden. I love it man, it's without a doubt the best drive pedal I own now. And I will definitely be checking out more Wampler pedals- soon. You gained a new groupie.
This kind of videos IS why I'm subscribed to this channel. That, and how great of a person Brian is. Oh, did I mention I just ordered a Wampler Tumnus Deluxe for my birthday? It will come into my hands in just a few more days.
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Señor Wampler, I own two of your pedals. The Tumnus and Pantheon. It's at this stage of owning both for a year that I can say the Pantheon is surpassing the Tumnus more on the daily use on my board! Regarding this comparison, I found the one on the left more pleasing! Greetings from Hollywood, California.
I've bought 3 Tumnus deluxes in the last month- and still haven't played through one yet. The first one I bought the guy cancelled the order and said he had already sold it and just neglected to take the listing down. The second guy held my money for 6 days- then cancelled it, said the pedal wouldn't power on anymore and all he had otherwise was a Tumnus mini. So- I bought another one two days ago- it's on its way- wish me luck. One way or the other I am determined to own this pedal.
I just bought the MXR Fat Sugar simply on looks and because I like to collect limited edition things. I wasn't expecting much, but HOLY CRAP it's a great circuit. If you use Klon(e)s in that "sweet spot" area of gain at about 10 o'clock where the germanium diodes start coming online, you really should try the MXR sugar versions. That area of the sweet spot is huge compared to most Klones that have a pretty narrow spot on the dial. But the main thing I like about it is that it has an extremely fast attack compared to basically every other Klone out there that has a bit of compression. Not everyone will like that, but it's different enough of a feel that I can recommend it to those that maybe don't like the spongy feel of their Klones. For instance, surf players that trem pick a lot would appreciate that super quick attack.
I have 2 tumnus deluxe, a ceriatone centura. Ryra the klone, maybe a few others. Any of them in overdrive I go with the tumnus all day. As clean always on the ceriatone. Wampler pedals are the best quality n sound. Love them.
I liked both circuits, especially the left one. Have two tumnus, a small one and a de luxe (on different boards). Have them set to moderate overdrive and unity gain.
Great video - I love my Tumnus Deluxe although my Pantheon Deluxe is getting more use lately. The flexibility of the EQ on the Tumnus Deluxe really makes it a great plug and go pedal. Interesting to see the circuit design and learn some logic. Thanks for the nerdy videos. Love it! -BP
Love my Deluxe! Bass guitar too. Then to distortion or fuzz. Clean is super nice boost. Great show Brian! Good topic. I tried a few Centaur clones, and the Tumnus Deluxe sounded the best. The tone controls make it really flexible.
(Wampler fan warning) The EQ on the Tumnus Deluxe almost replaces a separate EQ - so much flexibility. The Pantheon has other flexibility with those 3-way toggle switches, going from boost to beast (yes Brian you can use that phrase 😝). I don’t typically use the 2 together because their voices are so different. I have an MXR Duck of Tone first, usually as a boost for anything after. Then Tumnus and Pantheon, with an MXR Timmy at the end. Yes that’s a lot of expensive silliness but you can go many tonal places with those pedals, either alone or 2 together.
@@chipsterb4946 I have all of those too! Haha. I go TD (very low gain/boost), Moxie, DOT, Belle, PD into Plexi Drive Deluxe (Main amp sound) and get some killer tones! I use the Belle as a lead type punch. I use the Moxie as a kick on lead too, depending on what I want.
Nice video! I designed a Klon circuit without the charge pump and used OPA1642 opamps, which are rail-to-rail, and it sounds exactly the same at 9V and 18V. Another trick I like is adding switchable feedback diode clippers in the OD stage for a 'high-gain' mode. Also, a killer combo is a Klon pushing a JFET overdrive. Don't know if you've done a video like that yet, Brian, but I think it'd be a great idea to show how great the Tumnus stacks with some of your other drives.
so i just bought a original Klon centaur, the biggest difference i hear, even with the KTR, is the attack aka the buzz word "dynamic response" has a REALLY HUGE (not really, but once you noticed it you can't unhear it ) difference, especially when you hit it hard with a humbucker pickup.
Thanks so much for the explanations and demo. You're insights are priceless for the non-techie like me. It's tough not being in the room, but through my phones, the original circuit sounds "fuller" for lack of a better word, more expansive, more harmonically charged. This comparison will cause me to focus more on those aspects when someone offers me a Klon clone.
Your playing is amazing, Mr. Wampler. I would take your pedal any day (and I do have the Tumnus regular and deluxe versions) over those cheapy Tumnus clones!
I hope you're being sarcastic and joking around man- because there are tons of ppl who do not understand this community and think ppl are copying one another or trying to steal designs or something. It's pathetic this is the only lens these ppl seem to be able to view the world through, they're completely missing the point.
Thank You for explaining the circuit....so basically it's a parallel overdrive / dry blender, with clean boost type headroom. ( to answer my question, what exactly is a Klon? ) sort of mid focus overdrive, dumblesque, with a bypass blend.....i mean i already have a pedal i can probably use to mimic the Klon effect, if i get my frame of mind for the tweak.
Love your content Mr Wampler.....good stuff I had an original gold Klon that cost 250 LoL brand new Never used it much Actually liked Analogman TS9 better This was before stacking was a thing or I would have been thrilled Sold it 15 years ago for 1350. I think it was Anyways using a RYRA sometimes now(definitely want to try a Tumnus) but still using that modded TS9 mostly What I was going to speak on before the sob story LoL was that I like and prefer a circuit that you can crank the level/volume up with out it getting too crazy and stays fairly quiet when using other pedals with it
I love my OG Tumnus for the harmonic complexity that comes with the gain cranked. To my ear these 9v circuits don't get there. But my nirvana would be to get that harmonic magic at lower gain. Is that even possible? I don't waste the goatboy's superpower on clean boost duty. I mean, what did Mike and Tom use on all those Heartbreakers records? Was it tube screamers into AC30s and Bassmans, plus naked Princetons they used on stage?
basically the type of thing i have sonic room for, but i am going to try to get it with my MXR FOD. one side is a fixed mid scoop with the drive control....the other is a trimmer adjustable crunch with mid boost switch....so i can get something like that. the higher voltage is giving your dry through more head room to shove the amp ... or the feel your getting is in the amp, but that's supported by the extra voltage in the pedal.
That Tele caught my eye. First I noticed that it has three knobs, which I don't recall ever seen before. Then I noticed it has a red single coil in the middle position: After searching for it I found out it's a Brent Mason model which also comes with the B string/strap trick, seems like a fun guitar.
Hey, tell us more about stacking drive with tumnus. I use “jhs morning glory” before Tumnus, but it gets kind of too tick sound when I stack then. Even when the drive is down!
What do you say to those (especially on TGP) that say the Tumnus adds too much bass to the signal vs. an OG Klon? I personally own two Tumnus pedals and don't find this to be the case.
I’m planning on doing a video around the boss but it’s so different from a Klon circuit it wouldn’t be a good comparison, totally different sounds/use. I do like them both though!
@@wampler_pedals I love your deep dives I can't wait to watch! I use the OD-3 the way a lot of players use klones; I would love to learn more about their differences! Thanks for all the great circuit talk!
Built one of these recently, I thought I did something wrong because the volume was so loud! First time playing a klon style pedal obviously. These breadboard videos are my favorite.
Hi Mr Wampler. I`ve got the Tumnus Delux. I do not use it as an gain pedal. More like a boost. The eq is really great. The Belle comes after and that makes the crunch. Big thanks for the Ego compressor. You really nailed it there. A great pedal. Thanks!
I think part of the difference we're hearing is that two of them are bread boarded and one is a finished pedal in an enclosure- which makes a difference in the quality of sound you'll get from them. That said- the Tumnus sounded better to me- but that second one was getting close. You can hear that openness in the Tumnus though- that sound that comes from having a lot of headroom. Which I assume is a direct result of the higher voltage. But the second one was impressive- a little thin, but I like the gain. It sounded like it was being pushed though- and I hate a drive that is super quiet when the gain is all the way down. I use the JHS AT+ and I love it- except for the fact that with the gain down you can barely hear it. That's a shame to- it has a nice clean tone, but you have to crank your amp to hear it.
@@martijn_yt Because the connections are not made in a permanent way, no soldering, and nothing is shielded- breadboard circuits never sound quiet as good as soldered, finished, shielded circuit. You get more noise and more impedance.
I've found that, for multiple reasons I'm sure, feeding an opamp with higher voltages makes overdrive circuits sound and feel better. I remember when I built a blues pro clone for myself and fed it 18 volts, it just seemed to bring it to life. More clarity, more 'feel' and one could say a touch of that tube-like compression response. I could be insane. More testing needed. The EQD Plumes is a good example of this. Charge pumps the voltage up to 18 volts and has a bit of that 'feel' under the fingers.
Honestly I think I like all three equally. I also think I really hate the klon as a clean boost, and also with the dual gang pot. Just make it a gain knob and a clean blend
At 5:10 this sounds, to me, like AC/DC, "Walk All Over You" tone. I'm a guitar player. Uncanny resemblance which surprises me because it's a Tele not an SG. WTF?? Anybody agree?
9v will have less headroom of course, but won't the opamp react differently/different slew rate at higher voltages? Here's what I want: a "klonned" Distortion+. Take a dead stock D+, add a clean path, and replace the Distortion pot with a double-ganged pot to blend/buzz.
It would have been nice to see you measure and match the germanium diodes to get that Klon trademark tone. What are the germanium diodes current and forward bias suppose to be 0.300 milliamps? I'm not sure what the original designer wants to be used. What I have heard is Jeff Beck always kept his Klon pedal turned on at all time that is why his bridge pickup had that midrange squawk to it right?
@Wampler_Pedals I wonder if you would do this with Hagerman’s “Tube Klon” and see how it compares. Given that he says he’s removed a large portion of the initial circuit. I believe he is claiming it’s not necessary (that first percentage of the original Klon circuit). I could loan you mine if you don’t have one. I’d be willing to pay for shipping to and back. I can’t swing just buying you one-but your input would mean a lot to me, and I’m sure many others.
I figure copying had nothing to do with it-Bill's such a humble guy that he gooped his pedals so no one would see what a genius he was! I think I liked the Clown Centurion more, but neither seemed to open up and bloom the way the Tumnus does? Is that right? Felt like it to my ear anyways. The Tumnus sounds wider, I'd imagine the higher voltages play a role in that, similar to some pedals I have operating at 12 or 18V rather than if I run them at 9V.
I liked the breadboarded circuits fine but to me the 27 volt power supply is part of the beauty of the klon circuit. It’s hard to beat having all that volume on tap, especially when using it as a clean boost into a dirty amp.
They all sound pretty good I still prefer the tumnus tho! I have the Tumnus Deluxe on my board as my main overdrive there’s just nothing better in my opinion!
Q: a couple of my pedals get a strange noise in them if they are AFTER my J Rockett Archer. Is it the charge pump? The two are the DOD FX65 and the EHX Electric Mistress.
It’s probably related to the electric mistress if I had to guess. Have you tried running them on completely isolated power? Even then, the grounds are connected and can cause noise
Tumnus user here 🤘I thought the 9V were a bit hairy on the high end. They lacked that thick midrange of a Klon and the Tumnus.... Although the Clown sounded pretty good.
Interesting. I was always curious about pedals with voltage doubling (or with internal charge pump), Most time I read it helps with adding more headroom... but analog mike actually "criticizes" the use of those things because of noise issues I think. He recommends pedals that take 12v directly for better "performance" instead of voltage doubling. Do you agreed with that? Tnks Brian, it's always interesting to watch this videos. Cheers. HM
There are advantages and disadvantages to 9v, voltage doubling, and using larger voltage adaptors. Ultimately the answer is…. “It depends”. Voltage doublers CAN cause noise issues, with some pedals, and some power supply arrangement, it some situations. 9v is easier but you lose headroom, though sometimes that is desired depending if you need more compression or clipping with certain types of circuits. It gets kind of complicated lol.
I've got an ISP Theta Preamp, which is incredible. I think 18 volts inside, has a 15 voltage power supply, unique type of beast. It has "around 160 Db of gain" and ISP Decimator noise reduction built in. It works!
I hate to put it this way, but with all the uncommon values used in the Klon circuit, was Finnegan kind of more a hobbyist creating the pedal rather than someone with more experience? I know he had some help from some MIT engineers, but I thought I read they weren't familiar with guitar pedals.
Which wampler od pedal is the most transparent. Meaning sound is like no pedal on but with overdrive. No color of tone at all. Knobs set at 0 or 12 noon.
Probably pantheon or euphoria, but not with knobs set at noon in particular. Info here: th-cam.com/video/66Q_pdPiOXY/w-d-xo.html and here: th-cam.com/video/D9Bh--2S1hs/w-d-xo.html
Why does my mini tumnus led light stay on even when bypassed? I bought a strymon power supply for this problem and still didn't fix it. I sent it to the manufacturer and they told me to get a new power supply. Now what?
I really do not know how to use this pedal (I have the RYRA). Nothing sounds right. I listen to youtubers' demos of the Klon and several clones and they sound fantastic. I am a newbie and perhaps I am not using the good combination of AMP and pedal and settings. What would be the best way to get the best sound of the Centaur?
It depends what kind of music you’re playing. I play blues and classic rock and I use my RYRA Klone as a base drive to stack with other drives. I keep the gain on the Klone fairly high, maybe around 2 or 3 o’clock. Running that into an MXR Timmy sounds amazing. Of course it depends on your guitar and amp setup as well.
I built the barebones klone.. didn't really like it... I built a modified klone (Added clipping diode options and a 'fat boost' and it is a staple on my board.
I have ehx soul food that is klon type of circuit and i'm expiriencing constant high pitched squeal noise when pedal is on. It goes up if i increase pedal volume i use original power supply that came with it. very simple setup..guitar>pedal>amp, low to mid gain. Maybe not enough information but this seems to exist as issue with klon circuits. Did you ever hear about this? Any thoughts?
It may be their voltage pump circuitry, there are very specific things you need to do with it when engineering it. Is it daisy chained or connected in any way to other pedals?
@@wampler_pedals thanks for the response. no other pedals, just my les paul>pedal>jvm205. It sounds like feedback but without increasing. The term i'v found online is heterodyning. its not that bad but its audible and a bit annoying.
Yes that’s the correct term. Very interesting it’s doing that direct into amp. Do those JVM’s have digital reverb I wonder? Not sure exactly what’s causing it to do that into amp
@@wampler_pedals actually they do. By watching this video I noticed you have exact same amp in the background. Interesting idea about reverb. I'll look in to it
They are really dark, which might not be a bad thing because the standard KLON circuit is too shrill for me. Definitely on the low end of gain but could be part tolerance as you said. They both know a lot, but haven't developed their ear enough.
You asked. Otherwise I'd keep my negativity to myself. It is so hard to hear any real difference (even w/ good headphones) on these sorts of comparisons on the ultra compressed thing that is TH-cam (you know this - thanks for trying anyway). They sounded the same to me. I'm a bad judge though. I've only played the Tumnus & Soul Food - never a real Klon. Two reasons why I don't like it for myself: it's only good either all the way up or into an almost crunchy amp. I like slightly crunchier overdrives w/ more range for dirt & also much simpler clean boosts (or compressor, or EQ) to "drive" an amp. The second thing wrong w/ the Klon circuit that it does what it is designed to do - which according to Bill F is to let you hear all of the subtle nuances of your technique (the Tumnus does that for sure). My technique sounds like d*gsh*t. I lean toward boxes that make me sound better than I am & make my gear sound better than it is. Your Tweed '57 is more my speed. Any compressor that gets slammed for not being transparent is also my friend. Great video though. I'm always happy to see you post something on here. They are "short & sweet". You get your point across in 10 minutes. A rarity these days.
Always amazing to find a new channel hosted by an expert... you inspire all of us to learn and give us new tools for evaluating gear... cheers from Rick Spyder : 👀 // \\
I came over to your site from the 3 letter site because of your no nonsense explanations and to be honest, I got tired of the faggy crapp going on over there lately. Your more technical, shall we say, explanations make more sense to me - thanks.
I sold mine fifteen years ago for 1350.00 but too bad I didn't wait longer LoL That pedal isn't even worth the 1350 let alone 5 to 8K Totally ridiculous IMO
Hello there, it's me dylan159 (you can find a collection of my best circuits under this other name in my blog!).
Thanks Brian for featuring both circuits in this video and for trying them out: you're still close to the diy community even after all those years.
It's fun to look back at these reworks I did, you caught the spirit of them perfectly. You also made me aware of mictester's take, based on observations we agree on.
Looking forward to the next one, Blue Pilot or whatever it will be!
One tip about the Pilot: you probably know better than me, but 072 can make some funny crackly noises when overdriven. I use it as stand-in for "any op-amp" and it's often actually a very good choice noise and other performance wise, but you might want to try something else too in this case, as much as I'm against "op-amp rolling".
And for you and everyone else, feel free to ask me any questions!
Thank you SO much for chiming in here!!! ❤️
Ha I just found your reddit post from a couple years ago before I even realized you had commented here!
Great job on this circuit! Sounds really good. Also listened to your demo of the blue pilot and wow! Will have to try it for myself!
I agree with you on the 072. It's the only kind I have on hand atm but Is there an opamp you would recommend which breaks up better?
@@wampler_pedals Oh, I couldn't resist once I saw it 😁
@@lichen8855 I haven't tested that many, but even if 4558 also shows phase reversal out of the common mode range (and that's my best guess), it seemed to behave better in these cases. probably also something more crude like 1458 or 358, watch out for the noise though!
I bought my Tumnus years ago, and I always loved it. My son recently started picking up the guitar, and he asked me for that Tumnus. It's now his, and I have to buy another one. It's such a great pedal. Even my 11 year old knows it!
That's so cool to hear!
I have a musical son as well. I gave or bought him whatever he needed to keep him progressing. Bless you my brother!
One of the best pedals I've ever played.
I've gotten into DIY Pedals. So far I have built a Klon, King of Tone and Germanium Fuzz Faze.
They all sound great. I'm hoping in the future to be able to build my son a one box pedal board.
He's only 4 at the moment so I'm just planting the seeds.
Tumnus Deluxe is an outstanding pedal. VERY versatile, great tones with any setting.
So glad to see dylan159's circuit on here. I've built a bunch of his stuff and it rocks.
Yey, shout out to mictester and dylan159!
Wow, that Tumnus breathes fire! Love these technical deep dives.
Brian- I just got my Tumnus deluxe- third try buying used, but I hit the jackpot finally- it works, and I got it cheap. I thought I was buying a dirt pedal- I had no idea I was buying the best clean tone I've ever heard come out of my amp. This thing is amazing man- I'm sure you've heard that a million times, but there's 1 million + 1. The gain is a little odd, not what I'm used to- it's like it's a very low gain pedal until you flip the switch to "hot" and then pass about 1 o'clock- and then boom, there's all the gain you've been looking for all the sudden. I love it man, it's without a doubt the best drive pedal I own now. And I will definitely be checking out more Wampler pedals- soon. You gained a new groupie.
I like something in the feel of the higher voltage. Thanks for exploring this for us.
This kind of videos IS why I'm subscribed to this channel. That, and how great of a person Brian is.
Oh, did I mention I just ordered a Wampler Tumnus Deluxe for my birthday? It will come into my hands in just a few more days.
Señor Wampler, I own two of your pedals. The Tumnus and Pantheon. It's at this stage of owning both for a year that I can say the Pantheon is surpassing the Tumnus more on the daily use on my board! Regarding this comparison, I found the one on the left more pleasing! Greetings from Hollywood, California.
Love my Tumnus Deluxe 🤩
I've bought 3 Tumnus deluxes in the last month- and still haven't played through one yet. The first one I bought the guy cancelled the order and said he had already sold it and just neglected to take the listing down. The second guy held my money for 6 days- then cancelled it, said the pedal wouldn't power on anymore and all he had otherwise was a Tumnus mini. So- I bought another one two days ago- it's on its way- wish me luck. One way or the other I am determined to own this pedal.
Interesting sitar-like sound coming from that E string on the Tele. Love my Tumnus!
Yeah, nut problem. It’s getting fixed now
I own a Tumnus deluxe. Absolutely love it. Great pedal!
I just bought the MXR Fat Sugar simply on looks and because I like to collect limited edition things. I wasn't expecting much, but HOLY CRAP it's a great circuit. If you use Klon(e)s in that "sweet spot" area of gain at about 10 o'clock where the germanium diodes start coming online, you really should try the MXR sugar versions. That area of the sweet spot is huge compared to most Klones that have a pretty narrow spot on the dial. But the main thing I like about it is that it has an extremely fast attack compared to basically every other Klone out there that has a bit of compression. Not everyone will like that, but it's different enough of a feel that I can recommend it to those that maybe don't like the spongy feel of their Klones. For instance, surf players that trem pick a lot would appreciate that super quick attack.
I have 2 tumnus deluxe, a ceriatone centura. Ryra the klone, maybe a few others. Any of them in overdrive I go with the tumnus all day. As clean always on the ceriatone. Wampler pedals are the best quality n sound. Love them.
Thanks so much!
I liked both circuits, especially the left one.
Have two tumnus, a small one and a de luxe (on different boards).
Have them set to moderate overdrive and unity gain.
Great video - I love my Tumnus Deluxe although my Pantheon Deluxe is getting more use lately. The flexibility of the EQ on the Tumnus Deluxe really makes it a great plug and go pedal. Interesting to see the circuit design and learn some logic. Thanks for the nerdy videos. Love it! -BP
Try using them together. TD as a boost. 👍🏻
Love my Deluxe! Bass guitar too. Then to distortion or fuzz. Clean is super nice boost. Great show Brian! Good topic. I tried a few Centaur clones, and the Tumnus Deluxe sounded the best. The tone controls make it really flexible.
(Wampler fan warning) The EQ on the Tumnus Deluxe almost replaces a separate EQ - so much flexibility. The Pantheon has other flexibility with those 3-way toggle switches, going from boost to beast (yes Brian you can use that phrase 😝). I don’t typically use the 2 together because their voices are so different. I have an MXR Duck of Tone first, usually as a boost for anything after. Then Tumnus and Pantheon, with an MXR Timmy at the end. Yes that’s a lot of expensive silliness but you can go many tonal places with those pedals, either alone or 2 together.
@@chipsterb4946 I have all of those too! Haha. I go TD (very low gain/boost), Moxie, DOT, Belle, PD into Plexi Drive Deluxe (Main amp sound) and get some killer tones! I use the Belle as a lead type punch. I use the Moxie as a kick on lead too, depending on what I want.
Nice video!
I designed a Klon circuit without the charge pump and used OPA1642 opamps, which are rail-to-rail, and it sounds exactly the same at 9V and 18V. Another trick I like is adding switchable feedback diode clippers in the OD stage for a 'high-gain' mode.
Also, a killer combo is a Klon pushing a JFET overdrive. Don't know if you've done a video like that yet, Brian, but I think it'd be a great idea to show how great the Tumnus stacks with some of your other drives.
You and I are thinking very similarly! I too was considering rtr oa’s, switching soft/hard clipping as well!
Cool comment. What jfet drives sound good with the tumnus pushing it?
Wampler's Plexi Drive or Catalinbread SFT are both good. @@kostisk8914
love the nerdy stuff! thank you for sharing with us.
so i just bought a original Klon centaur, the biggest difference i hear, even with the KTR, is the attack aka the buzz word "dynamic response" has a REALLY HUGE (not really, but once you noticed it you can't unhear it ) difference, especially when you hit it hard with a humbucker pickup.
Hello there
Thanks so much for the explanations and demo. You're insights are priceless for the non-techie like me. It's tough not being in the room, but through my phones, the original circuit sounds "fuller" for lack of a better word, more expansive, more harmonically charged. This comparison will cause me to focus more on those aspects when someone offers me a Klon clone.
BTW the thumbnail for your vid is priceless
Your playing is amazing, Mr. Wampler. I would take your pedal any day (and I do have the Tumnus regular and deluxe versions) over those cheapy Tumnus clones!
I hope you're being sarcastic and joking around man- because there are tons of ppl who do not understand this community and think ppl are copying one another or trying to steal designs or something. It's pathetic this is the only lens these ppl seem to be able to view the world through, they're completely missing the point.
Thank You for explaining the circuit....so basically it's a parallel overdrive / dry blender, with clean boost type headroom. ( to answer my question, what exactly is a Klon? )
sort of mid focus overdrive, dumblesque, with a bypass blend.....i mean i already have a pedal i can probably use to mimic the Klon effect, if i get my frame of mind for the tweak.
Always love your videos and perspective. Thanks. Cheers from Hawaii
11:39 I liked how the middle circuit allowed some of the guitar “clean” sound until the gain was pretty high.
Love your content Mr Wampler.....good stuff I had an original gold Klon that cost 250 LoL brand new Never used it much Actually liked Analogman TS9 better This was before stacking was a thing or I would have been thrilled Sold it 15 years ago for 1350. I think it was Anyways using a RYRA sometimes now(definitely want to try a Tumnus) but still using that modded TS9 mostly What I was going to speak on before the sob story LoL was that I like and prefer a circuit that you can crank the level/volume up with out it getting too crazy and stays fairly quiet when using other pedals with it
I love my OG Tumnus for the harmonic complexity that comes with the gain cranked. To my ear these 9v circuits don't get there. But my nirvana would be to get that harmonic magic at lower gain. Is that even possible? I don't waste the goatboy's superpower on clean boost duty.
I mean, what did Mike and Tom use on all those Heartbreakers records? Was it tube screamers into AC30s and Bassmans, plus naked Princetons they used on stage?
basically the type of thing i have sonic room for, but i am going to try to get it with my MXR FOD.
one side is a fixed mid scoop with the drive control....the other is a trimmer adjustable crunch with mid boost switch....so i can get something like that.
the higher voltage is giving your dry through more head room to shove the amp ... or the feel your getting is in the amp, but that's supported by the extra voltage in the pedal.
That Tele caught my eye.
First I noticed that it has three knobs, which I don't recall ever seen before. Then I noticed it has a red single coil in the middle position:
After searching for it I found out it's a Brent Mason model which also comes with the B string/strap trick, seems like a fun guitar.
Do you mean a B bender?
It’s a Nashville tele. Pretty common.
Yep, the Nashville teles are similar. This model is indeed the brent mason model.
What you guys do is truly magic! Like Steve Jobs for guitar tone
Hey, tell us more about stacking drive with tumnus. I use “jhs morning glory” before Tumnus, but it gets kind of too tick sound when I stack then. Even when the drive is down!
What do you say to those (especially on TGP) that say the Tumnus adds too much bass to the signal vs. an OG Klon? I personally own two Tumnus pedals and don't find this to be the case.
Damn I was just wondering if the voltage headroom actually makes a difference! Fantastic video.
Please do the Blues Driver vid! Thanks Brian!
Would love to see you pick apart the Boss OD-3 and compare it to the Klon and other boutique overdrive circuits!
I’m planning on doing a video around the boss but it’s so different from a Klon circuit it wouldn’t be a good comparison, totally different sounds/use. I do like them both though!
@@wampler_pedals I love your deep dives I can't wait to watch! I use the OD-3 the way a lot of players use klones; I would love to learn more about their differences! Thanks for all the great circuit talk!
The Tumnus Deluxe is killer.
Brian, I wish I could come work for you and build pedals, you’re pretty damn awesome. Keep making great pedals and videos!
Dream job. Brian is awesome!
Built one of these recently, I thought I did something wrong because the volume was so loud! First time playing a klon style pedal obviously. These breadboard videos are my favorite.
Thanks Keith! Yeah, the Klon circuit is SUPER loud.
Hi Mr Wampler.
I`ve got the Tumnus Delux.
I do not use it as an gain pedal.
More like a boost.
The eq is really great.
The Belle comes after and that makes the crunch.
Big thanks for the Ego compressor.
You really nailed it there.
A great pedal.
Thanks!
Thanks so much!
Dylan is a legend!
I think part of the difference we're hearing is that two of them are bread boarded and one is a finished pedal in an enclosure- which makes a difference in the quality of sound you'll get from them. That said- the Tumnus sounded better to me- but that second one was getting close. You can hear that openness in the Tumnus though- that sound that comes from having a lot of headroom. Which I assume is a direct result of the higher voltage. But the second one was impressive- a little thin, but I like the gain. It sounded like it was being pushed though- and I hate a drive that is super quiet when the gain is all the way down. I use the JHS AT+ and I love it- except for the fact that with the gain down you can barely hear it. That's a shame to- it has a nice clean tone, but you have to crank your amp to hear it.
Why do you think that a design will sound different in a bread boarded version vs a version in a pedal enclosure ?
@@martijn_yt Because the connections are not made in a permanent way, no soldering, and nothing is shielded- breadboard circuits never sound quiet as good as soldered, finished, shielded circuit. You get more noise and more impedance.
Great video. I preferred the first one to the second.
I've found that, for multiple reasons I'm sure, feeding an opamp with higher voltages makes overdrive circuits sound and feel better. I remember when I built a blues pro clone for myself and fed it 18 volts, it just seemed to bring it to life. More clarity, more 'feel' and one could say a touch of that tube-like compression response. I could be insane. More testing needed.
The EQD Plumes is a good example of this. Charge pumps the voltage up to 18 volts and has a bit of that 'feel' under the fingers.
Honestly I think I like all three equally. I also think I really hate the klon as a clean boost, and also with the dual gang pot. Just make it a gain knob and a clean blend
the bass player in me agrees with you in all absolution. it also has room for more switches. how about a high gain and fuzz channel switching.
Wampler is the Leo Fender of Effects pedals.
That’s very kind of you 🙏
At 5:10 this sounds, to me, like AC/DC, "Walk All Over You" tone. I'm a guitar player. Uncanny resemblance which surprises me because it's a Tele not an SG. WTF?? Anybody agree?
I agree, totally sounds like Angus' Gibson SG through his Marshall 50w
@@nigsvon on my pc speakers! On my phone, not so much.
9v will have less headroom of course, but won't the opamp react differently/different slew rate at higher voltages?
Here's what I want: a "klonned" Distortion+. Take a dead stock D+, add a clean path, and replace the Distortion pot with a double-ganged pot to blend/buzz.
It would have been nice to see you measure and match the germanium diodes to get that Klon trademark tone. What are the germanium diodes current and forward bias suppose to be 0.300 milliamps? I'm not sure what the original designer wants to be used. What I have heard is Jeff Beck always kept his Klon pedal turned on at all time that is why his bridge pickup had that midrange squawk to it right?
@Wampler_Pedals
I wonder if you would do this with Hagerman’s “Tube Klon” and see how it compares. Given that he says he’s removed a large portion of the initial circuit. I believe he is claiming it’s not necessary (that first percentage of the original Klon circuit). I could loan you mine if you don’t have one. I’d be willing to pay for shipping to and back. I can’t swing just buying you one-but your input would mean a lot to me, and I’m sure many others.
refractor is pretty good. i built a couple. didnt use the D9E's though got better results with some old diodes i had in a box
I figure copying had nothing to do with it-Bill's such a humble guy that he gooped his pedals so no one would see what a genius he was! I think I liked the Clown Centurion more, but neither seemed to open up and bloom the way the Tumnus does? Is that right? Felt like it to my ear anyways. The Tumnus sounds wider, I'd imagine the higher voltages play a role in that, similar to some pedals I have operating at 12 or 18V rather than if I run them at 9V.
Great video they all sound good, but that's thru a little phone speaker. Thanks for the educational videos.
Love my Tumnus deluxe :)
Does wampler have a tube screamer clone pedal that cleans up better then an ibanez tube screamer? While keeping that mid hump. Other then the tumnus.
Yep, moxie and triumph pedals are best ones to check out in this situation
I liked the breadboarded circuits fine but to me the 27 volt power supply is part of the beauty of the klon circuit. It’s hard to beat having all that volume on tap, especially when using it as a clean boost into a dirty amp.
They all sound pretty good I still prefer the tumnus tho! I have the Tumnus Deluxe on my board as my main overdrive there’s just nothing better in my opinion!
Q: a couple of my pedals get a strange noise in them if they are AFTER my J Rockett Archer. Is it the charge pump? The two are the DOD FX65 and the EHX Electric Mistress.
It’s probably related to the electric mistress if I had to guess. Have you tried running them on completely isolated power? Even then, the grounds are connected and can cause noise
@@wampler_pedals I just got a new power supply- a Cioks- I should give it a try now :)
I had a PCB made of. The clown centurion and plugged it into 18v for fun, sounded good.
Tumnus user here 🤘I thought the 9V were a bit hairy on the high end. They lacked that thick midrange of a Klon and the Tumnus.... Although the Clown sounded pretty good.
Interesting. I was always curious about pedals with voltage doubling (or with internal charge pump),
Most time I read it helps with adding more headroom... but analog mike actually "criticizes" the use of those things because of noise issues I think. He recommends pedals that take 12v directly for better "performance" instead of voltage doubling. Do you agreed with that?
Tnks Brian, it's always interesting to watch this videos.
Cheers.
HM
There are advantages and disadvantages to 9v, voltage doubling, and using larger voltage adaptors. Ultimately the answer is…. “It depends”. Voltage doublers CAN cause noise issues, with some pedals, and some power supply arrangement, it some situations. 9v is easier but you lose headroom, though sometimes that is desired depending if you need more compression or clipping with certain types of circuits.
It gets kind of complicated lol.
@@wampler_pedals tnks! :)
I've got an ISP Theta Preamp, which is incredible. I think 18 volts inside, has a 15 voltage power supply, unique type of beast. It has "around 160 Db of gain" and ISP Decimator noise reduction built in. It works!
I hate to put it this way, but with all the uncommon values used in the Klon circuit, was Finnegan kind of more a hobbyist creating the pedal rather than someone with more experience? I know he had some help from some MIT engineers, but I thought I read they weren't familiar with guitar pedals.
Tumnus...Morning Glory...and ODR1 are all great.
Which wampler od pedal is the most transparent. Meaning sound is like no pedal on but with overdrive. No color of tone at all. Knobs set at 0 or 12 noon.
Probably pantheon or euphoria, but not with knobs set at noon in particular. Info here: th-cam.com/video/66Q_pdPiOXY/w-d-xo.html and here: th-cam.com/video/D9Bh--2S1hs/w-d-xo.html
I have a Tumnus and it hasn’t left my board. My band mate bought a Ceriatone Centura, have you ever tried that pedal and do you have any thoughts?
Why does my mini tumnus led light stay on even when bypassed? I bought a strymon power supply for this problem and still didn't fix it. I sent it to the manufacturer and they told me to get a new power supply. Now what?
send me the email conversation, brian@wp
I really do not know how to use this pedal (I have the RYRA). Nothing sounds right. I listen to youtubers' demos of the Klon and several clones and they sound fantastic. I am a newbie and perhaps I am not using the good combination of AMP and pedal and settings. What would be the best way to get the best sound of the Centaur?
It depends what kind of music you’re playing. I play blues and classic rock and I use my RYRA Klone as a base drive to stack with other drives. I keep the gain on the Klone fairly high, maybe around 2 or 3 o’clock. Running that into an MXR Timmy sounds amazing. Of course it depends on your guitar and amp setup as well.
It seems to me one big difference is the Tumnus had more compression even in the lower gain settings.
How about a collaboration pedal with Dylan159...?
Nothing beats Tumnus Deluxe.
The Tumnus is great! Your tele needs nut work on the 1st string lol
yeah 😕, Temperatures and humidities have been swinging like crazy here lately.
Oh man, ur high e string does that thing. Once u hear it u can’t stop hearing it. Awesome vid tho! 😊
Ya 😞. All fixed now though.
Why does it sound like there’s a phaser on the high E string?
Slight little bit of string buzz 😑, big humidity change the day I filmed this
Every time I see that Tele it makes me want to route a middle pickup into my 83 Tele.
I built the barebones klone.. didn't really like it... I built a modified klone (Added clipping diode options and a 'fat boost' and it is a staple on my board.
nice! Did you do a 9v version or did you use the charge pump?
Wampler’s a freekin wizard.
The breadboarded ones sound more aggressive
Do you think a double pedal with two Tumnus' would be cool?
absolutely!
@@wampler_pedals Tried, too mid-heavy.
Mr Wampler, I can't get past the fret buzz on that guitar...
It’s fixed now. Just needed a little tweaking.
Was thinking just the other day what is the difference lol
I have ehx soul food that is klon type of circuit and i'm expiriencing constant high pitched squeal noise when pedal is on. It goes up if i increase pedal volume i use original power supply that came with it. very simple setup..guitar>pedal>amp, low to mid gain. Maybe not enough information but this seems to exist as issue with klon circuits. Did you ever hear about this? Any thoughts?
It may be their voltage pump circuitry, there are very specific things you need to do with it when engineering it. Is it daisy chained or connected in any way to other pedals?
@@wampler_pedals thanks for the response. no other pedals, just my les paul>pedal>jvm205.
It sounds like feedback but without increasing. The term i'v found online is heterodyning. its not that bad but its audible and a bit annoying.
Yes that’s the correct term. Very interesting it’s doing that direct into amp. Do those JVM’s have digital reverb I wonder? Not sure exactly what’s causing it to do that into amp
@@wampler_pedals actually they do. By watching this video I noticed you have exact same amp in the background. Interesting idea about reverb. I'll look in to it
I prefer the second diy to the first I think. But the pedal beats them both.
Im still waiting on my brian tumnus… i mean wampler brian..
tumnus wampler deluxe.
Ok, but do a stereo reverb with midi and presets....
Vote for the Blues Driver clone.
They are really dark, which might not be a bad thing because the standard KLON circuit is too shrill for me. Definitely on the low end of gain but could be part tolerance as you said. They both know a lot, but haven't developed their ear enough.
You asked. Otherwise I'd keep my negativity to myself. It is so hard to hear any real difference (even w/ good headphones) on these sorts of comparisons on the ultra compressed thing that is TH-cam (you know this - thanks for trying anyway). They sounded the same to me. I'm a bad judge though. I've only played the Tumnus & Soul Food - never a real Klon. Two reasons why I don't like it for myself: it's only good either all the way up or into an almost crunchy amp. I like slightly crunchier overdrives w/ more range for dirt & also much simpler clean boosts (or compressor, or EQ) to "drive" an amp. The second thing wrong w/ the Klon circuit that it does what it is designed to do - which according to Bill F is to let you hear all of the subtle nuances of your technique (the Tumnus does that for sure). My technique sounds like d*gsh*t. I lean toward boxes that make me sound better than I am & make my gear sound better than it is. Your Tweed '57 is more my speed. Any compressor that gets slammed for not being transparent is also my friend. Great video though. I'm always happy to see you post something on here. They are "short & sweet". You get your point across in 10 minutes. A rarity these days.
Clone wars? Or clone complements
I can tell the difference with the Klondike circuit but it is not worth money
Always amazing to find a new channel hosted by an expert... you inspire all of us to learn and give us new tools for evaluating gear... cheers from Rick Spyder
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I came over to your site from the 3 letter site because of your no nonsense explanations and to be honest, I got tired of the faggy crapp going on over there lately. Your more technical, shall we say, explanations make more sense to me - thanks.
Think they all sound good but Not 8 thousand dollars good.
I sold mine fifteen years ago for 1350.00 but too bad I didn't wait longer LoL That pedal isn't even worth the 1350 let alone 5 to 8K Totally ridiculous IMO
@@paulcowart3174 There's no way you could've forseen the future. Either way, you're not alone in that club. Many people did the same, and sold theirs.
@@castleanthrax1833 Indeed Cheer's
I seriously think the Timmy sounds so much better than a klon.
Tumnus was better sounding.
what goof would spend 8k on a freakin pedal? lol you get a vintage plexi for that, which is 10000x better than any darn klon 🤣