The most surprising thing I've learned from this is that handling pedals while wearing white gloves imparts a more refined tone to all the pedals involved.
Silly people, tone is in the pedal board material: the part of the pedal board to which the pedals are mounted. Don't even get me started on the huge impact on tone caused by velcro mounting the pedals vs. zip tie/hard fasteners.
@@eastbaystreet1242 Not to mention how the pedal casing and the finish affect the tone. The pot metal and powder coating they use don't allow the pedal to breathe as well as sitka spruce and nitrocellulose lacquer.
Agree. I think of that in every A/B testing. Do an A/A testing. Or just pretend to switch it. When we are so focused on looking for differences, we can see them so clearly. We find evidence of whatever we're looking for.
There’s a lot of blind A/B tests that show up in Gearspace forums about plugins, and I’ve noticed that the most ardent arguers of “this one sounds better than the other” suddenly go quiet and leave the thread when the blind tests show up. Refuse to participate. Cuz….. confirmation bias is a helluva drug
My main concern when buying pedals is build quality. I have a couple of the Amazon basics pedals (Compressor and an ABY switch) and they've held up really well. Definitely better than some of my more expensive pedals. *Ahem* I'm looking at you TC Electronics... 😠
@@NORMIES_GET_OUTmy son had a Walrus Audio Voyager and had to replace the stomp button because it gave out, we were able to do it ourselves but it's an expensive pedal.
having 2 clones and one original would lower the chance of a lucky random guess, and it would be cool if the third pedal was something like a digital multi stomp!
Yeah A/B blind testing is one thing ... but even then a 50/50 shot ... particularly when your not really matching unity or levels so a crap shoot at best ... funny how the cheep n cheerful wins almost every time! ... aka do a shootout of say 7 RATs or 12 big muffs ... there's no chance anyone could tell the difference especially when it's in chain of pedals, in isolation I suspect they will be slightly different, and potentially identifiable... just pointless which is what I love about JHS, the demystifying of circuits! :D I'm so getting a 39$ Klone! :D
@@jarrodcross1482 why would anyone do a shootout of the same pedal, let alone a dozen of them? Unless you’re saying with a Muff vs Rat, which would be silly because they’re very different circuits. Not to mention one is a fuzz, while the other is distortion.
@@tds2117 I think you answered your own question, either do or don't ... while the variations of say a RAT or a big muff are well documented plus having production runs over decades with revisions n component substitutions, while they are basically voiced to create the same effect at the output jack ... a bit like how most old boss CE2s sound subtley different, the real question is let's say, is a 500+ vintage unit better or worse than a current production model let alone a cheep 30-40$ clone ... While it's just a circuit, take the klon for example ... with some now hitting 10,000$s plus how many were hand made by Bill, that introduces so many variances surely, if he was hand building all those?
Exactly, a circuit is a circuit! Well said. Electronics are governed by the component values and the layout. The magic is entirely within our heads. Kudos to the crew at JHS for having the courage to make it real!
And the little variance in values that we just can't remove will make two pedals set the exact same way sound slightly different, whether you can hear it or not
Totally agree. It seems to me that "more expensive" will mean "better quality/sound" up to a point, but then the law of diminishing returns takes over. $7,0000.00 for an overdrive pedal is a prime example.
I think theres a King Midas moment that keeping going on and on for the Klon. I dumped mine long ago sadly. I say that only because I’d sell in a second now for more. I still use a clone and I have several. I do love the pedal. Im the guy who has used a tube screamer since 1983. Ive prolly had 50 TS pedals. Love them both as boosts.
I thought the same. I don't know what did it for you, but to me A seemed to have more dynamic range. When he was strumming quite hard, they sounded the same to me.
Man, it's like buying a watch. You could spend thousands if you want to, but at the end of the day something for a fraction of the price can still tell you the right time.
The initial popularity and success of the Klon was due to the innovations in how the circuit was designed. Since the circuit does not involve any super rare or expensive components, cheap copies can be made and faithful reproductions will sound as good as the original (or at least to the point that human ear cannot detect any difference). The inflated price of the Klon is only due to the fact that it has become a collector's item, and it has become a collector's item because there are relatively few units, not because the original units sound better.
i haven't heard anything come closer than the KTR, i like the ryra a lot and the centura can sound even creamier than a Klon. Sold my Tumnus as the transient was icepick-ish, inducing the most rapid ear-fatigue of any other boost pedal since my keeley time machine. Kind of wish I'd kept the Archer but only a little, as my DIY silver pony 2 does the job (and more) just fine.
I preferred the sound of the cheaper Klon, straight up, and I do music and production professionally 😂. Maybe there’s no accounting for taste but I’m absolutely certain that $6,950 can be better spent just about every way imaginable.
I feel like I preferred the authentic Klon, but honestly…not by much and I imagine any difference could be dialed out with actually seeing the knobs and getting what you want. If I had to absolutely pick which one sounded better? B. But honestly I wouldn’t even consider wanting the original, the knock-off is so close I wouldn’t think twice about buying it. I’m honestly considering buying one right now because it’s so good and I would never justify the money to buy an original.
@@TheMuffinMan01yeah I think that was more what people are hearing. A ton of vintage pedals just have weaker output signals than modern stuff. They need to set the levels accordingly before they start in the future
2 rather significant things here: - equal-loudness contours / Fletcher-Munson bias due to unequal volume - B doesn't sound even 50% like a Rat, and is much closer to a mid-period Big Muff. So it plainly fails by a mile as a clone, but if you prefer it to the old specimen then that's great. Happy accidents and serendipity make for half of the innovation and joy in the world,. anyways :)
Josh and Crew this is the best guitar pedal review ever in the history of TH-cam. Proves what I have been saying for years -- a pedal sounds only as good as it looks !
Cool, funny and informative as always! I’d never thought a Klon had reached 7k. But at the moment I’m so happy for the eventual owners who ve just realised they can get a better sounding pedal for 29.99 bucks
The klon much harder with very little output difference but tone was pretty spot on. Had 3 klons back in 2003. Sold them for $350/$400 back then. Thinking I made it out good. Damn I hate myself.
Thoughts: Use a looper pedal to ensure that strumming or playing doesn’t affect how each pedal is played. Play in a band setting - in a genre specific to the pedal’s most appropriate purpose -
I want to hear an episode where you compare the actual pedal to a variety of modelled sounds, such as Helix, or even some software plugins. For example, Helix Native’s chorus sounds or the Digitech RP360 chorus sounds, versus the actual pedals they are modelled after.
@@paulcowart3174 I stopped buying Overdrives and Fuzzes about 3-4 years ago and started playing with EQ Pedals instead. Not near as glamorous, but they have a huge impact on sound.
@@coreyclark6505 EQ is the secret weapon of tone sculpting, it has made me like dirtboxes that I hated. So that Source Audio EQ2, I was looking into that when it first came out. Well I was looking at the first version, then the next week the 2 came out and the vids on it blew my mind. I need it right?
for the third shootout (silver klon, $29 vs $7K) : that means you can buy 233 x Bezos Clones for the value of a single authentic Klon that just proved to sound the same ? Extremely surprising, interesting and baffling all at the same time !!! Definitely Food for Thoughts !! Thanks a lot Josh for bringing us back to Planet Earth !!!
The Tube Screamer was louder. So right there, the perception is that it's better. Take two identical sounds, make one just slightly louder and it will always be picked as sounding better.
3/3 for me, but 1 and 3 were total guesses. Also I guessed the OG rat would be more scooped and a newer style would me more mid forward. But NONE of them were significantly better or worse in this test. Amazing!
Well as an audio engineer i can tell you i have fooled a lot of amp lovers with amp sims and digital stuff. Nobody can discern it. And i say this as a tube amp lover who owns 8 amps. Live with my band i play a tube amp, other guitarist plays a digital rig. Truly both sound just as good. Theres slight differences here and there in feel sometimes. Sometimes not, in the end who cares. We live in an age where theres about a million ways to make good sounding things and its all valid.
Just throwing out ideas. I've never played a real full stack or a fully digital rig, so all I have for reference is my orange micros into a cheap 4x12 and a lil crate tube combo, so I can't voice any opinion. New idea: Test plastic enclosures vs. all metal at obscene levels to see if one is noisier than the other, since shielding/grounding with a metal chassis blocks out more rf.
I had a peavey deuce vt tube amp from like late 70s early 80s maybe? Was older. sounded better than my fender twin cyber which I got brand new. That peavey was crunchy and warm as fuuuuck silky smooth tones on both ends. Tube amps are king imo vs solid state and digital. Depends what you're going for though too it's almost too subjective to draw a conclusion it's more preference person to person I think.
Good show! Please make several more episodes. Some pairing ideas: wah wah pedals and their "magic" inductors; blues breaker pedal variants vs original; modern chorus/vibrato pedals vs Boss CE-whatevers; modern analog/tape delays vs "the good ones" from yester-years.
This was very interesting and I think it absolutely proves Josh's point of confirmation bias being most of what we "hear" when we decide one piece of gears sounds inherently better than another piece of gear. (I'm totally guilty of this myself) We buy into the whole package and history just as much if not more than the sound. The Rat clone totally fooled me. I guessed the Tube Screamer correctly, but since I'm not a fan of Tube Screamers anyway, I dion't know if that really counts. I got the other two wrong. I do have a suggestion though. For future episodes Josh should do a little "pre production" and find settings for all the boxes ahead of time that he can dial in when he plugs in each pair of pedals, so right out of the gate they sound close. THEN you can start twiddling knobs. Set up the expensive one the ways most people use it, then try to match that with the cheap box, and use those setting before anyone even plays a note. I think it would be even more challenging that way.
Yes and not necessarily amps meant to sound like other amps. Just put a cheap amp on one side and an expensive amp on the other and ask him to guess which was the expensive amp
Yeah, but I'd hope they do a better job making them sound the same beforehand (especially, at very minimum, volume matching), instead of just looking at pots and approximating.
Thanks to you I bought the Klon clone and the Rat clone on AliExpress for 20$ each. Best deal ever ! My favourite pedal on my pedalboard is the Rat clone.
That was great! 😆 Defo up for more of this series - I'd like to see a 3 way comparison though: Expensive pedal vs cheap pedal vs cheap multi effect pedal like, say an MS-50g - We also need two participants: Gen-Z with hearing intact vs Gen-X with burned out ears but experience.
I have the Mosky Silver Horse. I absolutely love that pedal, and feel so good about my cheap purchase after hearing this. It sounds really, really similar to the Klon.
It's important to point out, sometimes a higher price is not because it sounds better... but sometimes its a collectable factor. Like with anything, collectors seek certain things and that affects price. Supply and demand. Also, of course, what sounds better is completely subjective. Use and enjoy the tools you prefer for your sound and have fun.
I think the elephant in the room is Josh. With his experience, expertise, knowledge of how the the pedals sound, and being able to manipulate the controls on the fly to make the pedals sound similar or different has a huge impact on the test. In my experience if l take an expensive pedal and a cheaper version and put both pedal knobs in the same spot they can sound completely different. If l set up the expensive to sound a certain way l generally can manipulate the cheaper pedals knobs to come very close in sound in a side by side comparison. Obviously some cheap pedals are just inferior so your mileage may vary.
A 'basic' chorus pedal shootout would be pretty interesting. ie: each pedal should have the same parameters because obviously an Eventide ModFactor is going to sound better than a $30 Amazon pedal but what about a vintage Boss CE-1 or CE-2 ?
I used to manage a guitar shop and I was downright amazed how often the "lowly" Dano Fab Chorus for like $25 used to beat out way more expensive chorus pedals back to back
great show idea ! i would recommend trying to have an equal volume comparison... specially in the RAT example, version A (expensive) was lower in volume most of the 1 minute test, and that is a big BIAS when comparing... Louder is going to sound better most of the time.
yeah, the orginal RAT sounded thin and not set how people use the RAT. The original Klon soujnded less good near the end. It kinda sounds like Josh was trying to fool people with his pedal settings.
This was a lot of fun because I know through my crappy speakers I rarely hear the difference, and it was nice to see that live with no bias they couldn't really either
This was awesome! I have been saying for a long time to all the cork sniffers out there that the Mosky Klon is AWESOME, and gets you there for 25 bucks (closer/as close as the 400/600 'boutique' versions ...) ... but hey-ho ... a fool and his money ....
Agree that this can be a really fun series! There are soooo many good pedals out there and knock-offs from Caline, NuX, Mosky, Moorer, etc etc, you could make it a weekly thing! One that I think would be a tough one to pick is the Jan Ray vs. Caline Pure Sky✌🏻
Sweet. That's the Rat clone I have, and that's the Klon clone I have. Love them both, and they were dirt cheap! Would like to see some fuzz comparisons: I have the Behringer Super Fuzz, and the Soniccake Fazy Cream Muff clone
There are 100s of those videos because Boss sent them to every guitar channel on TH-cam. Same as the original sound, but the originals are limited in their feature set. At this point, you can get all of the Waza pedals for about half retail cost. I paid less than $125 for the Metal Zone and DM2 each, so in any case, great pedals and value.
The Klon circuits were really hard to tell apart. Sounded identical to me. But I definitely prefered the real RAT. Just liked the high end much better. Would never pay $7xx for any pedal, though.
I know the vid has been out for a while ... but you fellas kill me about this being the pilot episode and will be soon replaced with better cast members 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 fantastic sense of humor
Hilarious. Reminds me of the time the Gear Page was collectively blowing it's load over the new hand made boutique overdrive pedal that turned out to be a painted Joyo ultimate drive. You guys need to do some digital stuff like Line 6 Helix vs the real pedal.
That was really cool! I was surprised with the klon! I felt like the original had more bass to it. Addison, you should have known that the white faced rat wouldn’t have had so much bass to it.
I luckily had them right throughout but it's because I played a TS and RAT for a long time. I got lucky on the Klon, it sounded fatter. I will say: the cheap pedals win overall here: the player will be the difference! I play a JHS Series 3 Fuzz and it is such a great sounding swiss army fuzz in the studio! Thanks to Josh and team for these enlightening fun videos!
The Klon is like any collectors item, the value is in owning something rare and desirable… Like stamps or baseball cards… It’s sill worth the 7k to those who own them or want one… But anyone that actually has one Velcroed to a board for giging with is pretty crazy… it’s like licking your $7,000 rare stamp 😆
I'd love if you, prior to shooting, marked out a couple settings on both pedals (like a high gain and low gain setting) to dial each pedal in and get them sounding identical. I find myself picking the louder or brighter one each time which in itself is a good conclusion of the video. Video on a marshall bluesbreaker, Boss CE-2, and maybe some delay could be cool.
Agreed. Perhaps Josh shouldn't be the one to adjust the pedals, but someone else should be doing it, changing the settings, and because they see it all and know what's what, they can't comment on it.
I picked like Addison. So, I purchased a YMUZE Moskyaudio Mini Silver Horse Effect Pedal Overdrive Pedal for Electric Guitar and saved thousands. Great VDO guys.
"Confirmation Bias" best thing said all day! That Klon / clone test was epic.......$7,000!! That has NOTHING to do with tone, and everything to do with collectability-gone-mad! 😂
Love the concept for the show! Keep it up! SPOILERS! -> At 20:10 I felt like B sounded better, so I guessed that would be the Klon (correctly). However, there were other points before that where A sounded better to me. Most of the time they just sounded basically the same. I also agreed with Addison that the Mosky Rat sounded better!
@@BlueBarrier782 I think there's a handful of clones for the tremodillo out there. An example would be the joyo tremolo. For the deluxe memory man, there's an Xvive delay that was designed by the same guy who designed the original DMM. As for the Nobels, it probably won't make sense to clone it as it's affordable enough already, isn't it? I mean, you'd probably find more expensive clones of the ODR-1 than cheaper ones.
@@rhrdth, some people, and Tim Pierce in particular, think the original ‘90s production ODR-1 sounds better than the current versions. The originals fetch $400+ nowadays. Maybe the mini up against an OG?
@@ebeep You're right. I should've realized that. After all, the Rat is so expensive even though it currently is still in production and even has a mini version.
I bought a $30 Mosky, and I'll never look back. This reminds of wine tasters. You can put box wine in a fancy wine's bottle and they'll taste it with their eyes. Pour that fancy wine in a box and watch them spit it out with disgust. 10/10 times unless they know the specific vineyard and vintage by blind taste, they'll never know what is actually what.
I have a Klon Centaur clone on my board and love the crap out of it. 1.---it sounds great. 2.---I was able to buy another Marshall head, 4x12 Cabinet w Celestions, an Echoplex pedal, Digitech Distortion Factory and had enough money left over to buy a cheap used van. In my opinion anyone who spends 7K on a pedal is nuts.
Loved this! A few unsolicited suggestions for future episodes, if you decide to stick with this idea: * Increase the number of people playing the game to, say, three (passing the guitar around), and they submit their guesses in secret. * Let Josh be one of the players! * Dump the 1-minute timer and instead have the players play the pedals on a few predetermined settings. The random knob-turned where one pedal is set to a completely different setting than the other pedal means you can't compare the sounds back to back. * Allow viewers to vote, just to compare their ears to the players'.
I bought a DIY Klon clone kit that arrived fully assembled. I thought it'd would be funny to send it back to be disassembled and resent to me so I could reassemble it. Instead I took it to a store that had all 3 real Klon pedals (gold, silver and red) and there was no noticable difference.
I have the silver and gold Mosky Horse pedals. Picked the silver on a whim based on prices and reviews. Arrived quickly from China (about 8 days free shipping about $21 for each). Amazing tones. Who knows how durable they are but if that price you just buy another one.
![[🔴LIVE] งานประกาศรางวัล MAYA TV AWARDS 2024 : มายามหาชน](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nwmWYXXVwBY/mqdefault.jpg)
You folks need to set-up a live voting system, so you can survey the full audience. Would be fun to see the distribution of listener guesses.
TH-cam supports polls in the live chat
My guess is it would be 50/50.
Y E S
@@stevenlewis4376 Very likely. Haha. I was 1 for 3.
As Hisham stated, adding a poll the live stream is easy to do.
The most surprising thing I've learned from this is that handling pedals while wearing white gloves imparts a more refined tone to all the pedals involved.
@Robert Cooper not that far off of gibson's "toan iz in the finish"
Silly people, tone is in the pedal board material: the part of the pedal board to which the pedals are mounted. Don't even get me started on the huge impact on tone caused by velcro mounting the pedals vs. zip tie/hard fasteners.
@@eastbaystreet1242 Not to mention how the pedal casing and the finish affect the tone. The pot metal and powder coating they use don't allow the pedal to breathe as well as sitka spruce and nitrocellulose lacquer.
@@grandudetonesnob7107 A properly relic’d pedal ALWAYS sounds better.
@@tomcoryell everyone knows relics are fake, I don’t understand why anyone would want one, they must be idiots etc, etc, etc 😂
I really hope this show continues. I just saved so much money.
Those klons definitely sounded the same.
I thought B (the original) sounded better, "juicer" before the reveal, but I can't say the difference worth $7k. Also 1 minute is not enough.
And you didn't even have to go with Geico 😂😂😂. I got my Mosky Silver Horse for $19 👍
@@KcapgarI was totally surprised myself, I have the Mosky and it sounds really nice through my JCM 900
@@ekklesiastwow thanks for the spoiler
I'd like to see a secret "PLACEBO" example with two of the same pedals going head-to-head to explore that kind of bias.
Agree. I think of that in every A/B testing. Do an A/A testing. Or just pretend to switch it. When we are so focused on looking for differences, we can see them so clearly. We find evidence of whatever we're looking for.
Gonna be hard to drop 14k on 2 klons
There’s a lot of blind A/B tests that show up in Gearspace forums about plugins, and I’ve noticed that the most ardent arguers of “this one sounds better than the other” suddenly go quiet and leave the thread when the blind tests show up. Refuse to participate. Cuz….. confirmation bias is a helluva drug
@@AsherRapp thats not how it works.
@@AsherRapp Actually, Josh Scott would be a good person to do this, as he probably has the biggest collection of actual original Klons in the world.
This channel showed me everything I know about pedals and to not be ashamed of the cheap ones as long as I like the sound
My main concern when buying pedals is build quality. I have a couple of the Amazon basics pedals (Compressor and an ABY switch) and they've held up really well. Definitely better than some of my more expensive pedals. *Ahem* I'm looking at you TC Electronics... 😠
@@NORMIES_GET_OUT what brands have held up well?
@@NORMIES_GET_OUT tc electronics = behringer = no
Keeley, JHS, Boss and MXR have been the best for me as far as build quality and longevity.
@@NORMIES_GET_OUTmy son had a Walrus Audio Voyager and had to replace the stomp button because it gave out, we were able to do it ourselves but it's an expensive pedal.
having 2 clones and one original would lower the chance of a lucky random guess, and it would be cool if the third pedal was something like a digital multi stomp!
I would say have 2 of the same brand and the original just to make it interesting.
+1
Yeah A/B blind testing is one thing ... but even then a 50/50 shot ... particularly when your not really matching unity or levels so a crap shoot at best ... funny how the cheep n cheerful wins almost every time!
... aka do a shootout of say 7 RATs or 12 big muffs ... there's no chance anyone could tell the difference especially when it's in chain of pedals, in isolation I suspect they will be slightly different, and potentially identifiable... just pointless which is what I love about JHS, the demystifying of circuits! :D
I'm so getting a 39$ Klone! :D
@@jarrodcross1482 why would anyone do a shootout of the same pedal, let alone a dozen of them?
Unless you’re saying with a Muff vs Rat, which would be silly because they’re very different circuits. Not to mention one is a fuzz, while the other is distortion.
@@tds2117 I think you answered your own question, either do or don't ... while the variations of say a RAT or a big muff are well documented plus having production runs over decades with revisions n component substitutions, while they are basically voiced to create the same effect at the output jack ... a bit like how most old boss CE2s sound subtley different, the real question is let's say, is a 500+ vintage unit better or worse than a current production model let alone a cheep 30-40$ clone ... While it's just a circuit, take the klon for example ... with some now hitting 10,000$s plus how many were hand made by Bill, that introduces so many variances surely, if he was hand building all those?
Exactly, a circuit is a circuit! Well said. Electronics are governed by the component values and the layout. The magic is entirely within our heads. Kudos to the crew at JHS for having the courage to make it real!
And the little variance in values that we just can't remove will make two pedals set the exact same way sound slightly different, whether you can hear it or not
Totally agree. It seems to me that "more expensive" will mean "better quality/sound" up to a point, but then the law of diminishing returns takes over. $7,0000.00 for an overdrive pedal is a prime example.
@@Jesse615 $7,000 dollars is foolish. $70,000 is an even better sales opportunity!
@@wesleyzimmerman94 that variance can go for different units from the same production run!
I think theres a King Midas moment that keeping going on and on for the Klon. I dumped mine long ago sadly. I say that only because I’d sell in a second now for more. I still use a clone and I have several. I do love the pedal. Im the guy who has used a tube screamer since 1983. Ive prolly had 50 TS pedals. Love them both as boosts.
I guessed A on the Klon but knew I was wrong the second I saw how much more gently Josh removed the patch cords from the B pedal. 😂
I thought the same. I don't know what did it for you, but to me A seemed to have more dynamic range. When he was strumming quite hard, they sounded the same to me.
AND also how FAR he moved his hands to TURN the knobs! THAT was a DEAD give away!
100% me as well
Stop listening with your eyes, people! lol!
Amazing attention to detail. Great job.
Man, it's like buying a watch. You could spend thousands if you want to, but at the end of the day something for a fraction of the price can still tell you the right time.
The initial popularity and success of the Klon was due to the innovations in how the circuit was designed. Since the circuit does not involve any super rare or expensive components, cheap copies can be made and faithful reproductions will sound as good as the original (or at least to the point that human ear cannot detect any difference). The inflated price of the Klon is only due to the fact that it has become a collector's item, and it has become a collector's item because there are relatively few units, not because the original units sound better.
What do you think is the best clone of Klon?
There’s 8,000 of them out there. Usually more than 20 on Reverb and eBay at any given time. Guitar players are dumb.
The Wampler Tumnus (the little one) is probably the best, and the Warm Audio is probably the most authentic
i haven't heard anything come closer than the KTR, i like the ryra a lot and the centura can sound even creamier than a Klon.
Sold my Tumnus as the transient was icepick-ish, inducing the most rapid ear-fatigue of any other boost pedal since my keeley time machine. Kind of wish I'd kept the Archer but only a little, as my DIY silver pony 2 does the job (and more) just fine.
Tell that to the people that spent too much money on a pedal "just because."
Would be nice to see some cheap "Amp In A Box" vs actual Amp comparisons. Tape Delays and Fuzzes would be nice too.
I preferred the sound of the cheaper Klon, straight up, and I do music and production professionally 😂. Maybe there’s no accounting for taste but I’m absolutely certain that $6,950 can be better spent just about every way imaginable.
A whole lot of people listen with their eyes…
Musicians' hearing is supposedly so good.
I feel like I preferred the authentic Klon, but honestly…not by much and I imagine any difference could be dialed out with actually seeing the knobs and getting what you want. If I had to absolutely pick which one sounded better? B. But honestly I wouldn’t even consider wanting the original, the knock-off is so close I wouldn’t think twice about buying it. I’m honestly considering buying one right now because it’s so good and I would never justify the money to buy an original.
They both sounded mediocre, because he was just choking out some chords and not playing any music.
It's a useless comparison.
@@shaft9000 Fanboy?
The Rat clone sounded so much better than the real thing. Original Rat seemed thin and sharp
Absolutely, and I thought I was insane
I did prefer the original Klon though…
You’re crazy 😂
was it not just way quieter??
@@TheMuffinMan01yeah I think that was more what people are hearing. A ton of vintage pedals just have weaker output signals than modern stuff. They need to set the levels accordingly before they start in the future
2 rather significant things here:
- equal-loudness contours / Fletcher-Munson bias due to unequal volume
- B doesn't sound even 50% like a Rat, and is much closer to a mid-period Big Muff.
So it plainly fails by a mile as a clone, but if you prefer it to the old specimen then that's great. Happy accidents and serendipity make for half of the innovation and joy in the world,. anyways :)
Josh and Crew this is the best guitar pedal review ever in the history of TH-cam. Proves what I have been saying for years -- a pedal sounds only as good as it looks !
Cool, funny and informative as always! I’d never thought a Klon had reached 7k. But at the moment I’m so happy for the eventual owners who ve just realised they can get a better sounding pedal for 29.99 bucks
I have the Mosky. Can confirm it's a damn good pedal.
Line 6 stuff vs actual pedals would be an awesome comparison! ☺️
Paul Stanley said it best "People listen with their eyes."
mr. paul stanley took that quote from the other mr. paul (les)...
The klon much harder with very little output difference but tone was pretty spot on. Had 3 klons back in 2003. Sold them for $350/$400 back then. Thinking I made it out good. Damn I hate myself.
Thoughts: Use a looper pedal to ensure that strumming or playing doesn’t affect how each pedal is played. Play in a band setting - in a genre specific to the pedal’s most appropriate purpose -
I feel like this could be even harder if Josh got to set each pedal's settings before the listener could hear it.
Exactly. Pre-set them to be as close in sound to each other as possible in advance, then pick. My guess is that a guess would be just that.
Absolutely. Matching volumes is important in making any meaningful comparison (because the ear will generally prefer the louder pedal).
I want to hear an episode where you compare the actual pedal to a variety of modelled sounds, such as Helix, or even some software plugins. For example, Helix Native’s chorus sounds or the Digitech RP360 chorus sounds, versus the actual pedals they are modelled after.
This channel can really crush a person who’s bought 6 different overdrives of one type to find that one “magic” one.
Great show!
Ha ha yeah So which did you end up favoring after all the purchases ??
@@paulcowart3174 I stopped buying Overdrives and Fuzzes about 3-4 years ago and started playing with EQ Pedals instead.
Not near as glamorous, but they have a huge impact on sound.
@@coreyclark6505 Are you EQing before, or after, the overdrives?
@@HenryDixon3 both as of recently.
I picked up a Source Audio EQ2. I use channel 1 pre and channel 2 post.
@@coreyclark6505 EQ is the secret weapon of tone sculpting, it has made me like dirtboxes that I hated. So that Source Audio EQ2, I was looking into that when it first came out. Well I was looking at the first version, then the next week the 2 came out and the vids on it blew my mind. I need it right?
for the third shootout (silver klon, $29 vs $7K) : that means you can buy 233 x Bezos Clones for the value of a single authentic Klon that just proved to sound the same ? Extremely surprising, interesting and baffling all at the same time !!! Definitely Food for Thoughts !! Thanks a lot Josh for bringing us back to Planet Earth !!!
The more you know, the more you suffer 🤣🤣🤣
That, like most of your episodes, was pretty fun.
Also educational and entertaining.
Thanks, y'all 🙏
This is a ton of fun! Keep going with this idea. The Klons were indistinguishable.
I’m going out on a limb here this was my favorite most fun JHS video I’ve viewed yet!!! Loved it you’ll have to do another one!
A revue show that actually creates real, live, unbiased comparisons AND has fun without wasting a lot of time doing it. Thumbs up!
The Tube Screamer was louder. So right there, the perception is that it's better. Take two identical sounds, make one just slightly louder and it will always be picked as sounding better.
That was an awesome show!!! I'm looking forward to more of these. Pedal snobs may have some nervous breakdowns.
3/3 for me, but 1 and 3 were total guesses. Also I guessed the OG rat would be more scooped and a newer style would me more mid forward. But NONE of them were significantly better or worse in this test. Amazing!
If you decide to do amps it'd be neat to see a real full stack vs. a fully digital setup. I'd definitely like to see some analog vs. digital stuff.
Everything's digital once it goes through the interwebby...
🎸🎙🖥🌐💻🔉🎶👂😝
Well as an audio engineer i can tell you i have fooled a lot of amp lovers with amp sims and digital stuff. Nobody can discern it. And i say this as a tube amp lover who owns 8 amps.
Live with my band i play a tube amp, other guitarist plays a digital rig. Truly both sound just as good.
Theres slight differences here and there in feel sometimes. Sometimes not, in the end who cares.
We live in an age where theres about a million ways to make good sounding things and its all valid.
Just throwing out ideas. I've never played a real full stack or a fully digital rig, so all I have for reference is my orange micros into a cheap 4x12 and a lil crate tube combo, so I can't voice any opinion.
New idea:
Test plastic enclosures vs. all metal at obscene levels to see if one is noisier than the other, since shielding/grounding with a metal chassis blocks out more rf.
We need a Kemper re visit.
I had a peavey deuce vt tube amp from like late 70s early 80s maybe? Was older. sounded better than my fender twin cyber which I got brand new. That peavey was crunchy and warm as fuuuuck silky smooth tones on both ends. Tube amps are king imo vs solid state and digital. Depends what you're going for though too it's almost too subjective to draw a conclusion it's more preference person to person I think.
"you can buy an expensive and you can make great noises. You can buy a cheap and you can make great noises." -- Captain Lee Anderton (paraphrased)
WOW. The Rat and Klon comparisons blew my mind. I love it! 👏
Good show! Please make several more episodes. Some pairing ideas: wah wah pedals and their "magic" inductors; blues breaker pedal variants vs original; modern chorus/vibrato pedals vs Boss CE-whatevers; modern analog/tape delays vs "the good ones" from yester-years.
This was very interesting and I think it absolutely proves Josh's point of confirmation bias being most of what we "hear" when we decide one piece of gears sounds inherently better than another piece of gear. (I'm totally guilty of this myself) We buy into the whole package and history just as much if not more than the sound. The Rat clone totally fooled me. I guessed the Tube Screamer correctly, but since I'm not a fan of Tube Screamers anyway, I dion't know if that really counts. I got the other two wrong. I do have a suggestion though. For future episodes Josh should do a little "pre production" and find settings for all the boxes ahead of time that he can dial in when he plugs in each pair of pedals, so right out of the gate they sound close. THEN you can start twiddling knobs. Set up the expensive one the ways most people use it, then try to match that with the cheap box, and use those setting before anyone even plays a note. I think it would be even more challenging that way.
I would love more of this, and i think it'd be cool to include amps as well.
Yes and not necessarily amps meant to sound like other amps. Just put a cheap amp on one side and an expensive amp on the other and ask him to guess which was the expensive amp
Yeah, but I'd hope they do a better job making them sound the same beforehand (especially, at very minimum, volume matching), instead of just looking at pots and approximating.
I'd love to hear the Joyo Bantamp series compared to the heads they are emulating.
The rat comparison had me SHOOK.
Thanks to you I bought the Klon clone and the Rat clone on AliExpress for 20$ each. Best deal ever ! My favourite pedal on my pedalboard is the Rat clone.
That was great! 😆
Defo up for more of this series - I'd like to see a 3 way comparison though: Expensive pedal vs cheap pedal vs cheap multi effect pedal like, say an MS-50g - We also need two participants: Gen-Z with hearing intact vs Gen-X with burned out ears but experience.
I have the Mosky Silver Horse. I absolutely love that pedal, and feel so good about my cheap purchase after hearing this. It sounds really, really similar to the Klon.
Any difference between the silver and the golden horse?
@@Will_Reyes4 The Silver has a toggle switch for extra gain.
I bought one after this show and laughed all the way to the bank. BTW, I could not hear the difference between the two. Maybe laughing too hard.
@@swampsofhome In this case, laughing too hard is appropriate! The Silver Horse is such a ridiculous pedal.
“Yeah I think everyone should Google confirmation bias as well” hhahahaha Josh’s face is priceless.
what a bloody brilliant concept and show ....we all listen with our eyes
Came back just to say I'm disappointed this series didn't make it past the pilot 😢
Actually there was a second episode. You have to click the "Live" tab in their youtube channel, or search "$4,000 Big Muff".
@@diggpen1249 oh sweet! Thanks for pointing that out!
@@j.r.g3548 Hey, I found a third one today on my feed! It's called "Vintage Vs Modern (Small Clone, DS-1, Meat Box) With Rob Scallon"
It's important to point out, sometimes a higher price is not because it sounds better... but sometimes its a collectable factor. Like with anything, collectors seek certain things and that affects price. Supply and demand. Also, of course, what sounds better is completely subjective. Use and enjoy the tools you prefer for your sound and have fun.
No one admits to owning one because it's a collector's item. They spent the money because it "sounds" better. Golden magical diodes.
I think the elephant in the room is Josh. With his experience, expertise, knowledge of how the the pedals sound, and being able to manipulate the controls on the fly to make the pedals sound similar or different has a huge impact on the test. In my experience if l take an expensive pedal and a cheaper version and put both pedal knobs in the same spot they can sound completely different. If l set up the expensive to sound a certain way l generally can manipulate the cheaper pedals knobs to come very close in sound in a side by side comparison. Obviously some cheap pedals are just inferior so your mileage may vary.
Rat tasting... Sponsored by Subway. 😂
A 'basic' chorus pedal shootout would be pretty interesting. ie: each pedal should have the same parameters because obviously an Eventide ModFactor is going to sound better than a $30 Amazon pedal but what about a vintage Boss CE-1 or CE-2 ?
I used to manage a guitar shop and I was downright amazed how often the "lowly" Dano Fab Chorus for like $25 used to beat out way more expensive chorus pedals back to back
@@deesnudts5182 beat me to it
great show idea ! i would recommend trying to have an equal volume comparison... specially in the RAT example, version A (expensive) was lower in volume most of the 1 minute test, and that is a big BIAS when comparing... Louder is going to sound better most of the time.
yeah, the orginal RAT sounded thin and not set how people use the RAT. The original Klon soujnded less good near the end. It kinda sounds like Josh was trying to fool people with his pedal settings.
louder will almost always sound better..
This was a lot of fun because I know through my crappy speakers I rarely hear the difference, and it was nice to see that live with no bias they couldn't really either
What a time to be alive!
This was awesome! I have been saying for a long time to all the cork sniffers out there that the Mosky Klon is AWESOME, and gets you there for 25 bucks (closer/as close as the 400/600 'boutique' versions ...) ... but hey-ho ... a fool and his money ....
Awesome episode! Please consider doing a vintage Dallas Rangemaster vs. cheaper treble boosters, please!
Great pilot guys!! That was not only helpful but just down right fun!! You rock🤘🎶🎸
Can I hear it? Yea, I can hear it. It's the sound of $6,970 going right down the toilet.
I absolutely love these can you hear it vids and the fun energy in the room ans how much joy Josh seems to get out of these experiments
Agree that this can be a really fun series! There are soooo many good pedals out there and knock-offs from Caline, NuX, Mosky, Moorer, etc etc, you could make it a weekly thing! One that I think would be a tough one to pick is the Jan Ray vs. Caline Pure Sky✌🏻
Sweet. That's the Rat clone I have, and that's the Klon clone I have.
Love them both, and they were dirt cheap!
Would like to see some fuzz comparisons: I have the Behringer Super Fuzz, and the Soniccake Fazy Cream Muff clone
The most massive sounding muff I've played was a cheap Eno BMF . . . Clones can be surprising
You’re all mad! What a great idea! B for the rat was woolly😂
Plot twist: it was the Kemper the whole time
I can’t tell the difference Love the person getting stringed with dignity ❤❤❤😂😂😂
Addison, aka JHS' David Arquette. Great job, fellas! What a fun show!
Some else has said it too, I'm not the only one.
Well I'm off to buy a Mosky Klon 🤣
I like this one! Only thought is 1 minute is probably too short to have a proper impression on a pedals difference.
Brilliant! Would love to see the Boss Waza vs the Originals.
That would make a lot of people cry.
There are 100s of those videos because Boss sent them to every guitar channel on TH-cam. Same as the original sound, but the originals are limited in their feature set. At this point, you can get all of the Waza pedals for about half retail cost. I paid less than $125 for the Metal Zone and DM2 each, so in any case, great pedals and value.
I appreciate that Josh donned the gloves prior to exploring the bottom end responses from the pedals.
well, he used to be a proctologist before making pedals so...
Should have rubber gloves for that....
Josh had to reach around that table.
Sometimes I have to use these types of gloves for valuable artwork , very tight, they’re designed for babiessssss…
I bought that Klon clone a couple of years back just because that image of the centaur throwing the axe like that was hilarious
For the klon, when volume was down, I did my right judgement right away.
The Klon circuits were really hard to tell apart. Sounded identical to me. But I definitely prefered the real RAT. Just liked the high end much better. Would never pay $7xx for any pedal, though.
I could really hear the potential disappointment of my wife in the real Klon.
I know the vid has been out for a while ... but you fellas kill me about this being the pilot episode and will be soon replaced with better cast members 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 fantastic sense of humor
Hilarious. Reminds me of the time the Gear Page was collectively blowing it's load over the new hand made boutique overdrive pedal that turned out to be a painted Joyo ultimate drive. You guys need to do some digital stuff like Line 6 Helix vs the real pedal.
That’s a great idea
I love that idea. “Can you hear it” digital vs analog edition
I’ll tell you what. Stack a Joyo American Sound with any Klon clone and you can get amazing tone!
That is still funny after all this time. And now they see that builder as literally Stalin.
That was really cool! I was surprised with the klon! I felt like the original had more bass to it. Addison, you should have known that the white faced rat wouldn’t have had so much bass to it.
I luckily had them right throughout but it's because I played a TS and RAT for a long time. I got lucky on the Klon, it sounded fatter. I will say: the cheap pedals win overall here: the player will be the difference! I play a JHS Series 3 Fuzz and it is such a great sounding swiss army fuzz in the studio! Thanks to Josh and team for these enlightening fun videos!
This proves that the Klon is foolproof. It proves that you can be rich and still be a fool.
The Klon is like any collectors item, the value is in owning something rare and desirable… Like stamps or baseball cards… It’s sill worth the 7k to those who own them or want one… But anyone that actually has one Velcroed to a board for giging with is pretty crazy… it’s like licking your $7,000 rare stamp 😆
I'd love if you, prior to shooting, marked out a couple settings on both pedals (like a high gain and low gain setting) to dial each pedal in and get them sounding identical. I find myself picking the louder or brighter one each time which in itself is a good conclusion of the video. Video on a marshall bluesbreaker, Boss CE-2, and maybe some delay could be cool.
Agreed. Perhaps Josh shouldn't be the one to adjust the pedals, but someone else should be doing it, changing the settings, and because they see it all and know what's what, they can't comment on it.
I picked like Addison. So, I purchased a YMUZE Moskyaudio Mini Silver Horse Effect Pedal Overdrive Pedal for Electric Guitar and saved thousands. Great VDO guys.
Sell that Klon, and send everyone who said Klons were a scam a prize with the money.
"Confirmation Bias" best thing said all day! That Klon / clone test was epic.......$7,000!! That has NOTHING to do with tone, and everything to do with collectability-gone-mad! 😂
B Rat is so much louder. Louder always sounds better. They'll pick louder almost every time.
Glad I shelled out 26$ for the silver horse 😂😂
Thank you for hilariously helping me embrace my inner nerd without non-essential oils involved.
Love the concept for the show! Keep it up!
SPOILERS! ->
At 20:10 I felt like B sounded better, so I guessed that would be the Klon (correctly). However, there were other points before that where A sounded better to me. Most of the time they just sounded basically the same.
I also agreed with Addison that the Mosky Rat sounded better!
I liked the mosky rat a lot.
DAMN IT! I wasn’t that far yet
@@Cletus4594 Fixed. Sorry. 🥲
Incredible series!
Can’t wait for the next one!
Nobels ODR-1
EHX DMM
Diaz Tremodillo
Who makes cheap clones of those?
@@BlueBarrier782 I think there's a handful of clones for the tremodillo out there. An example would be the joyo tremolo. For the deluxe memory man, there's an Xvive delay that was designed by the same guy who designed the original DMM. As for the Nobels, it probably won't make sense to clone it as it's affordable enough already, isn't it? I mean, you'd probably find more expensive clones of the ODR-1 than cheaper ones.
@@rhrdth, some people, and Tim Pierce in particular, think the original ‘90s production ODR-1 sounds better than the current versions. The originals fetch $400+ nowadays. Maybe the mini up against an OG?
@@ebeep You're right. I should've realized that. After all, the Rat is so expensive even though it currently is still in production and even has a mini version.
I would like a "Can you hear it"-Episode with the new UA Amp Simulation and the real amps...
I bought a $30 Mosky, and I'll never look back. This reminds of wine tasters. You can put box wine in a fancy wine's bottle and they'll taste it with their eyes. Pour that fancy wine in a box and watch them spit it out with disgust. 10/10 times unless they know the specific vineyard and vintage by blind taste, they'll never know what is actually what.
Playing power chords with a pedal known for its great lead tone is like test driving a Ferrari at 20mph.
I have a Klon Centaur clone on my board and love the crap out of it. 1.---it sounds great. 2.---I was able to buy another Marshall head, 4x12 Cabinet w Celestions, an Echoplex pedal, Digitech Distortion Factory and had enough money left over to buy a cheap used van. In my opinion anyone who spends 7K on a pedal is nuts.
Loved this! A few unsolicited suggestions for future episodes, if you decide to stick with this idea:
* Increase the number of people playing the game to, say, three (passing the guitar around), and they submit their guesses in secret.
* Let Josh be one of the players!
* Dump the 1-minute timer and instead have the players play the pedals on a few predetermined settings. The random knob-turned where one pedal is set to a completely different setting than the other pedal means you can't compare the sounds back to back.
* Allow viewers to vote, just to compare their ears to the players'.
If you pay 750 bucks for a 30 dollar rat, you need to have your head examined. Same as7k for a Klon.
i was looking at drive pedals. just bought the amazon one. thanks for the demo!
I bought a DIY Klon clone kit that arrived fully assembled. I thought it'd would be funny to send it back to be disassembled and resent to me so I could reassemble it. Instead I took it to a store that had all 3 real Klon pedals (gold, silver and red) and there was no noticable difference.
Another great example of why I started watching this channel.
I have the silver and gold Mosky Horse pedals. Picked the silver on a whim based on prices and reviews. Arrived quickly from China (about 8 days free shipping about $21 for each). Amazing tones. Who knows how durable they are but if that price you just buy another one.
The Klon solution is always Oxblood.
I totally agree that B sounded better in the Rat contest. Probably explains why I never wanted a Rat in the first place LOL
It’s not a $7000 pedal it’s a $400 pedal that became a collectors item.
I love how Josh smashes snobs feelings constantly! Great video! I can taste the snobs’ tears through the internet ahaha
'Can you hear a difference?' is a different question to 'which is the expensive one?'.
Still, brilliant guys, the best YT pedal content by far.