Sir I just found your channel, that ts 250 was exactly the same colour and model as my second bike I had brought back in 1974 was a great bike I learned a lot of skills and pains on that bike, now one million kilometres and fifty bikes later I’m still loving riding, I also restored a Suzuki t500 Titan 74 model and a gs1000g suzuki which i still have, I like your detail and finish of your bikes,great video,thank you.
Well Dale, I'm not finding exact numbers on those voltages. Some places say 50 volts A/C on the source coil, others 70. (While cranking.) Then on the pulser coil, some places say .3 to .5 VAC, and some say 4 to 5 volts A/C. Those source coil voltages can go as high as 400 volts A/C while running at high revs. So, I'm not much help here but, Here's some interesting info from Rex's Speed shop, well known ignition specialists from Europe: QUOTE "Ignition faults that manifest as;- refusing to start unless bump started, not running on all cylinders and not running on a new CDi unit, but will run on an old one are due to the fact that the source winding is ‘weak’ and no longer able to supply its full output. In this case the insulation has started to fail but has not failed completely. The winding can still produce power but at a much reduced level. Electricity will always go via the easiest route, just like water will. On multi-cylinder machines a weak source winding will result in the capacitor(s) in the CDi unit not being fully charged. The result is that there is not enough power to fire the engine fully. The power will take the easiest route so you may notice that the one cylinder not running swaps around, suddenly coming to life for a while. Its worth remembering that very often spark plugs soaked in fuel often stop working for good and replacing it may bring the cylinder back to life for a short time. This is a sure sign of a failing source coil. Weak windings are often unable to run new CDi units. This is why swapping ignition boxes can add to the problems. As capacitors age they loose the ability to store a charge, weak windings are able to charge old capacitors. When a brand new unit is fitted the capacitor will charge up fully, loading the winding fully, often to the point where it stops producing power completely. When the old unit is refitted the ignition works again leading to owner to think the new unit is faulty. Its extremely rare for a new unit not to work, ones purchased from us will have been test run first making a “DOA” unit virtually unheard of. If you can get the engine to run by spinning it faster IE bump starting this too is a sure sign the source coil is weak. Windings fail slowly in a number of different ways. Faults that get worse with heat, load or need the engine to be spun faster than normal to start indicate a CDi source winding in the early stage of failure." UNQUOTE Good luck my friend, Robert
I've dealt with Rex in the past, he is the man for four stroke Yamaha singles ignition parts. He's in Sussex, England. About 90 miles from me. Europe is across the water! I agree with you that the weak spark tends to point towards the source coil. It could be duff capacitors in the CDI I suppose, but a lack of source voltage seems more likely. The fact that it's firing seems to point us away from the pulser coil, but that seemed to be the one with high impedance if I'm understanding Dale correctly. I do like a puzzle but I hope it doesn't cause Dale too many problems. Hopefully he has the spares in his well stocked parts dept! Best wishes, Dean.
Thanks Robert, somehow, I will figure it out. These problems are not my strong suite, but it's good for the brain to exercise it once in a while. But it sure seems to be more than just once in a while lately. We have Ricks motorsport electrics out in New Hampshire, that can rewind these, also cdibox.com up in Michigan.
It will be very interesting if you end up rewinding those coils yourself. I've done it, but would be interested to see what you come up with for getting it accomplished. There's a BUNCH of windings in a CDI source coil. You'll "get her done", as always. Man, you must have had a blast setting up your retirement shop!! Just when I think I've pretty much seen all your tools, yet another cool tool pops up. (The shear this time.) Very nice!! There's often tools that a person rarely uses, but when the occasion arises, they are a "God-Send"! (Wives often tend to not understand this basic fact of life.) ;~) Robert
Hey Robert, well turns out so far, I don't need to. As far as winding coils go...I have got the wire and was thinking how I was going to do it. I have a Yamaha coil that needs it. You are right the wire is very thin and a lot of it. Well, I have been thinking this out almost all my life, and I had in place most of what I needed before I quit working. So now its "twice the fun on half the money" as so many folks say. My wife is very understanding, but I'm sure she wonders why I have some of the tools I have, when I make money with them then she understands. Thats just how they are. They really can't help it. I guess we can't help it either that we want all the cool tools. Thats just how we are. Thanks for watchin.
Morning Dale ,great video again, had the same problem with my savage ,managed to get a brand new stator off e bay , you have comfirmed that my oil pump settings are correct ,cant wait to see your ts fire up!!.
Thanks Hugh, it's just a setback, the good news is this stator was used on PE, DS, RL, and all the TS's from 185 up to 400. Lots out there on Ebay and of course you can get Ricks motorsport electrics to completely restore yours, so there are options. Just trying to keep the money down if possible. But I will get her done. Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
Well, sorry that happened Dale. You'll have to double check me on this Dale. I would check those voltages while cranking on both that source coil and the pulser coil before pulling them off. I THINK the source coil should put out 30 volts or more, and the pulser coil about 3 to 5 volts. Both are AC voltages. Again, check me on those actual numbers, especially on the source coil. If I get a chance, I too will see if I can find those voltages. It is more common for the CDI box to fail than the stator coils. However, since it does have some spark, it could actually be a stator problem. Good luck with it, Robert
I pulled off my flywheel on my 1997 fantic trials bike. After putting back on a no start situation, wet plug, no spark. Pulled off flywheel again inspected put back on, this time spark and bike started. I had slightly missed the woodruff key, due to strong magnets making difficult to put back on. I noticed a scraching next to the key slit on flywheel.
Hey John, man some of those flywheels are super strong and hard to line up the key. If I remember right this one was like that. You just have to get a feel for it I think.
Hello Dale, nice neat job on the battery and resistor relocation. You have kept a factory look. I think you are well on the way to solving your ignition problem, a significant deviation on the impedance gives you a starting point. I bet you have one or two of those stator plates in your parts department! I did think that the spark looked weak. I'm sure you will have it nailed on very soon. Best wishes, Dean.
Oh boy Dean, I wish I did have some spares, but I don't. The good news is lots of Suzuki's used this same stator, so there are a bunch out there. Not too bad on price, but you don't know till you get them if they are any good. We have Ricks motorsports electric over here in New Hampshire, they can rewind coils and such but if you need a CDI box you have to go to Rex's. Certainly not opposed to it, but it can be a logistics nightmare if you have problems. If you need Yamaha parts, they are pretty much available here in the states. Going to do some more research, and testing, don't want to just throw a bunch of money at the problem. Thanks Dean you always have good info on this ignition stuff, not my strong suit, but I usually get to the bottom of the problem. Just makes my brain hurt doing so.
@@montana2strokeracer a friend of mine bought a lovely original XT500 as a non runner. Rex had all the bits we needed to get it running again. You need a good kickstart leg for those things. I'm glad the spares are out there, I was sure Sweger Cycle Inc. would have them!
Hi Dale- Love your videos-QUESTION I have a 73 suzuki TS 250 I am restoring I found the Resistor coil Part # 36500-30701 that has a wire broken off - what does this thing do? The bike seemed to run with this wire off. Can I repair it as where the wire broke off ( I can see the spot it came off) there seems to be no place to solder it back on as its wrapped plastic. Be great if you did a video on what it does exactly. Yes it the dark green component you were making a new bracket for...Thank you. I have so much to learn and info is so scarce. It be great on some of these more obscure components on dual purpose bikes to explain what it does as you are installing them for us dummies that want to learn from your expertise.
Hi there, the resistor is to keep from overcharging in the daylight key position. When in the nighttime key position, you're using the lights which keeps from overcharging. Yes, it will run without the resistor, but you will burn out your instrument, signal, and taillight bulbs if you are running at high enough rpm to be overcharging. Yes, if the wire is just broken, solder it back on the tab. I can't remember for sure, but I think it is a 4 or 5-ohm resistor so just a replacement from the electronics store will fix the issue. I have discussed the purpose of that resistor many times in the Suzuki videos, for the Yamaha's don't use them. Good luck with your repair, if you have any other questions feel free to ask. Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
still waiting for the old saying to come true,early to bed early to rise makes a man healthy wealthy and wise. LOL Good morning!!!@@retromechanicalengineer
Hi Mark, thanks for the offer, I sure appreciate it. I have had a couple folks already send me some diagrams. Think I am all set. Thanks again, and thanks for stopping by.
hi dale, i have a 74 ts250. my resistor has a all yellow wire that kind of y’s off but there is no other all yellow wire coming out of the harness, any idea what that plugs into and what it’s for? 22:57
hi dale, i have a 74 ts250. my resistor has a all yellow wire that kind of y’s off but there is no other all yellow wire coming out of the harness, any idea what that plugs into and what it’s for?
Hey Caden, you should have a green with a white strip come off one end and a yellow off the other end. It is a resistor to keep the bike from overcharging in the daytime switch position. It should connect to same color wiring in the junction under the seat.
Hi dale I've got a 74 Suzuki TS 250 and it's not charging i can't find a resistor on the bike or the Wiring for it. Would that stop it from charging having that missing
Hey Martin, they don't all have them, if your switch has only one position it probably does not have one. If it were there it would hang under the battery box and is about 4 inches long. No what it does is prevent overcharging in the daytime key position. Sounds like you have a wiring issue or a problem with your rectifier.
Hey, thank you for the help, one of the others has sent me a PDF of a newer model but looks pretty close, from what I understand the 185 is exactly the same. I like a good challege, but this electrical stuff makes my brain hurt. My email is dsweger@bresnan.net thank you again for your help and for hanging out in the shop with me.
@@montana2strokeracer no problem man! I will be sending the pictures to you shortly! Your videos have been super helpful with my restoration of my grandfathers TS185, it's the least I can do
Sir I just found your channel, that ts 250 was exactly the same colour and model as my second bike I had brought back in 1974 was a great bike I learned a lot of skills and pains on that bike, now one million kilometres and fifty bikes later I’m still loving riding, I also restored a Suzuki t500 Titan 74 model and a gs1000g suzuki which i still have, I like your detail and finish of your bikes,great video,thank you.
Thanks Phil, you have some great bikes there. I have always liked the T500. Just a two stroke guy I guess.
You're on a roll, Dale! Great diagnostic process and procedure. Thoroughly enjoying sharing this journey with you.
Thanks Jim, love a good challenge, till it gets too expensive. Buckle up and come along!
Well Dale, I'm not finding exact numbers on those voltages. Some places say 50 volts A/C on the source coil, others 70. (While cranking.) Then on the pulser coil, some places say .3 to .5 VAC, and some say 4 to 5 volts A/C.
Those source coil voltages can go as high as 400 volts A/C while running at high revs.
So, I'm not much help here but,
Here's some interesting info from Rex's Speed shop, well known ignition specialists from Europe:
QUOTE
"Ignition faults that manifest as;- refusing to start unless bump started, not running on all cylinders and not running on a new CDi unit, but will run on an old one are due to the fact that the source winding is ‘weak’ and no longer able to supply its full output. In
this case the insulation has started to fail but has not failed completely. The winding can still produce power but at a much
reduced level.
Electricity will always go via the easiest route, just like water will. On multi-cylinder machines a weak source winding will result
in the capacitor(s) in the CDi unit not being fully charged. The result is that there is not enough power to fire the engine fully.
The power will take the easiest route so you may notice that the one cylinder not running swaps around, suddenly coming to
life for a while. Its worth remembering that very often spark plugs soaked in fuel often stop working for good and replacing it
may bring the cylinder back to life for a short time. This is a sure sign of a failing source coil.
Weak windings are often unable to run new CDi units. This is why swapping ignition boxes can add to the problems. As
capacitors age they loose the ability to store a charge, weak windings are able to charge old capacitors. When a brand new
unit is fitted the capacitor will charge up fully, loading the winding fully, often to the point where it stops producing power
completely. When the old unit is refitted the ignition works again leading to owner to think the new unit is faulty. Its extremely
rare for a new unit not to work, ones purchased from us will have been test run first making a “DOA” unit virtually unheard of.
If you can get the engine to run by spinning it faster IE bump starting this too is a sure sign the source coil is weak.
Windings fail slowly in a number of different ways. Faults that get worse with heat, load or need the engine to be spun faster
than normal to start indicate a CDi source winding in the early stage of failure."
UNQUOTE
Good luck my friend,
Robert
I've dealt with Rex in the past, he is the man for four stroke Yamaha singles ignition parts. He's in Sussex, England. About 90 miles from me. Europe is across the water!
I agree with you that the weak spark tends to point towards the source coil. It could be duff capacitors in the CDI I suppose, but a lack of source voltage seems more likely. The fact that it's firing seems to point us away from the pulser coil, but that seemed to be the one with high impedance if I'm understanding Dale correctly. I do like a puzzle but I hope it doesn't cause Dale too many problems. Hopefully he has the spares in his well stocked parts dept!
Best wishes, Dean.
Thanks Robert, somehow, I will figure it out. These problems are not my strong suite, but it's good for the brain to exercise it once in a while. But it sure seems to be more than just once in a while lately. We have Ricks motorsport electrics out in New Hampshire, that can rewind these, also cdibox.com up in Michigan.
It will be very interesting if you end up rewinding those coils yourself. I've done it, but would be interested to see what you come up with for getting it accomplished. There's a BUNCH of windings in a CDI source coil.
You'll "get her done", as always.
Man, you must have had a blast setting up your retirement shop!! Just when I think I've pretty much seen all your tools, yet another cool tool pops up. (The shear this time.)
Very nice!! There's often tools that a person rarely uses, but when the occasion arises, they are a "God-Send"! (Wives often tend to not understand this basic fact of life.)
;~)
Robert
Hey Robert, well turns out so far, I don't need to. As far as winding coils go...I have got the wire and was thinking how I was going to do it. I have a Yamaha coil that needs it. You are right the wire is very thin and a lot of it.
Well, I have been thinking this out almost all my life, and I had in place most of what I needed before I quit working. So now its "twice the fun on half the money" as so many folks say. My wife is very understanding, but I'm sure she wonders why I have some of the tools I have, when I make money with them then she understands. Thats just how they are. They really can't help it. I guess we can't help it either that we want all the cool tools. Thats just how we are. Thanks for watchin.
Another job well done Dale. Thanks for the shout out.
Thanks Jack, you bet the least I can do. Appreciate you stopping by.
Excellent video Dale, you'll have her running in no time.
Man, I hope so, electrical not my strong suite.
Morning Dale ,great video again, had the same problem with my savage ,managed to get a brand new stator off e bay , you have comfirmed that my oil pump settings are correct ,cant wait to see your ts fire up!!.
Thanks Hugh, it's just a setback, the good news is this stator was used on PE, DS, RL, and all the TS's from 185 up to 400. Lots out there on Ebay and of course you can get Ricks motorsport electrics to completely restore yours, so there are options. Just trying to keep the money down if possible. But I will get her done. Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
Well, sorry that happened Dale.
You'll have to double check me on this Dale. I would check those voltages while cranking on both that source coil and the pulser coil before pulling them off. I THINK the source coil should put out 30 volts or more, and the pulser coil about 3 to 5 volts. Both are AC voltages. Again, check me on those actual numbers, especially on the source coil.
If I get a chance, I too will see if I can find those voltages. It is more common for the CDI box to fail than the stator coils. However, since it does have some spark, it could actually be a stator problem.
Good luck with it,
Robert
Never a dull moment around here. Have to see where this one goes.
I pulled off my flywheel on my 1997 fantic trials bike. After putting back on a no start situation, wet plug, no spark. Pulled off flywheel again inspected put back on, this time spark and bike started. I had slightly missed the woodruff key, due to strong magnets making difficult to put back on. I noticed a scraching next to the key slit on flywheel.
Hey John, man some of those flywheels are super strong and hard to line up the key. If I remember right this one was like that. You just have to get a feel for it I think.
great job dale im sure ul figure it out keep it going great work
Thanks Mark, man I hope so, there has been a lot of this lately.
Hello Dale, nice neat job on the battery and resistor relocation. You have kept a factory look. I think you are well on the way to solving your ignition problem, a significant deviation on the impedance gives you a starting point. I bet you have one or two of those stator plates in your parts department! I did think that the spark looked weak. I'm sure you will have it nailed on very soon.
Best wishes, Dean.
Oh boy Dean, I wish I did have some spares, but I don't. The good news is lots of Suzuki's used this same stator, so there are a bunch out there. Not too bad on price, but you don't know till you get them if they are any good. We have Ricks motorsports electric over here in New Hampshire, they can rewind coils and such but if you need a CDI box you have to go to Rex's. Certainly not opposed to it, but it can be a logistics nightmare if you have problems. If you need Yamaha parts, they are pretty much available here in the states. Going to do some more research, and testing, don't want to just throw a bunch of money at the problem. Thanks Dean you always have good info on this ignition stuff, not my strong suit, but I usually get to the bottom of the problem. Just makes my brain hurt doing so.
@@montana2strokeracer a friend of mine bought a lovely original XT500 as a non runner. Rex had all the bits we needed to get it running again. You need a good kickstart leg for those things.
I'm glad the spares are out there, I was sure Sweger Cycle Inc. would have them!
Hi Dale, was looking forward to hear it run. I am sure you will have it running in no time, pl do let us know what was wrong
I was too, disappointed for sure, but we will get it figured out. Will definitely let everyone know what was the problem. Thanks for watching.
Hi Dale- Love your videos-QUESTION I have a 73 suzuki TS 250 I am restoring I found the Resistor coil Part # 36500-30701 that has a wire broken off - what does this thing do? The bike seemed to run with this wire off. Can I repair it as where the wire broke off ( I can see the spot it came off) there seems to be no place to solder it back on as its wrapped plastic. Be great if you did a video on what it does exactly. Yes it the dark green component you were making a new bracket for...Thank you. I have so much to learn and info is so scarce. It be great on some of these more obscure components on dual purpose bikes to explain what it does as you are installing them for us dummies that want to learn from your expertise.
Hi there, the resistor is to keep from overcharging in the daylight key position. When in the nighttime key position, you're using the lights which keeps from overcharging. Yes, it will run without the resistor, but you will burn out your instrument, signal, and taillight bulbs if you are running at high enough rpm to be overcharging. Yes, if the wire is just broken, solder it back on the tab. I can't remember for sure, but I think it is a 4 or 5-ohm resistor so just a replacement from the electronics store will fix the issue. I have discussed the purpose of that resistor many times in the Suzuki videos, for the Yamaha's don't use them. Good luck with your repair, if you have any other questions feel free to ask. Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
Thanks for sharing brother. I think that is your problem
I think it might be. Thanks for watchin
well its Sunday 4:19am, ready to go to work Dale whats first?
Early riser Frank!
still waiting for the old saying to come true,early to bed early to rise makes a man healthy wealthy and wise. LOL Good morning!!!@@retromechanicalengineer
Some people stay up all night to watch my videos. Wow.
Me too Frank,
@@frankdillon6127 let me know when it does Frank!
Howdy Dale. That bike is coming along nicely. Where do you get your sheathing? My YL2 wire loom is a wreck. Need wires and sheathing for it.
Thanks buddy, I get most of my wiring supplies from Vintageconnections.com
@@montana2strokeracer Thank ya
Hi Dale.. I still have my original ts250 owners handbook, it has a wiring diagram on one of the back pages. I could send you a pic if it would help.
Hi Mark, thanks for the offer, I sure appreciate it. I have had a couple folks already send me some diagrams. Think I am all set. Thanks again, and thanks for stopping by.
Glad you got them
hi dale, i have a 74 ts250. my resistor has a all yellow wire that kind of y’s off but there is no other all yellow wire coming out of the harness, any idea what that plugs into and what it’s for?
22:57
noticed at first try the spark looked weak,not the crisp white pop you like to see.
Yeah, I didn't like it either, cdi is not like older mag type sparks, but it still didn't really look healthy.
@@montana2strokeracer well it makes for good video for future.
hi dale, i have a 74 ts250. my resistor has a all yellow wire that kind of y’s off but there is no other all yellow wire coming out of the harness, any idea what that plugs into and what it’s for?
Hey Caden, you should have a green with a white strip come off one end and a yellow off the other end. It is a resistor to keep the bike from overcharging in the daytime switch position. It should connect to same color wiring in the junction under the seat.
Hi dale I've got a 74 Suzuki TS 250 and it's not charging i can't find a resistor on the bike or the Wiring for it. Would that stop it from charging having that missing
Hey Martin, they don't all have them, if your switch has only one position it probably does not have one. If it were there it would hang under the battery box and is about 4 inches long. No what it does is prevent overcharging in the daytime key position. Sounds like you have a wiring issue or a problem with your rectifier.
Dale,Dale, Yamalube in a Suzy? LOL
Yeah I know Frank, but find some CCI lube these days.
@@montana2strokeracer thought you would splurge and go the Klotz route. just kidding i use Yamalube also.
If you've got a business email or something, I have a couple wiring diagrams for a 72 TS185. Probably won't be exact, but it would be close
Hey, thank you for the help, one of the others has sent me a PDF of a newer model but looks pretty close, from what I understand the 185 is exactly the same. I like a good challege, but this electrical stuff makes my brain hurt. My email is dsweger@bresnan.net thank you again for your help and for hanging out in the shop with me.
@@montana2strokeracer no problem man! I will be sending the pictures to you shortly! Your videos have been super helpful with my restoration of my grandfathers TS185, it's the least I can do
Is your fuel filter backwards?
I checked it is correct. Some are positioned the other way too; you made me wonder. Thanks for watchin.
First
I made it.
Glad to see you here buddy