@@jadewu111 Gothic metal is an evolution of doom metal, but some metal bands have a hint of goth sound to them and vice versa; I've even heard a fair amount of people refer to old Sisters of Mercy as gothic metal. Either way, even though gothic metal belongs to metalheads, both they and goths enjoy them frequently.
Well said Goth has spiralled into a popular internet style, with many people completely disregarding the music. It's become trendy but the music isnt...which sucks.
"Goth" fashion and being "goth" but completely disregarding the music is trendy since the 90s and it has been worse than today back then, with the actual subculture almost going extinct due to people having to get in contact with goth stuff and people in real live wich was rare for people who weren't already part of the subculture. To be honest in the last 5 or so years the number of young people interested in our music due to internet is even higher than in the batcave and deathrock revival of 2000-2010 where you despite having internet really needed to be intersted in goth to come across this stuff since there where no big youtubers like black friday and co that are so well known that most of thier fans aren't even goth.
I like the drama ... watching all those goth chicks complaining back and forth .. it's funny. Better than watching their make up tutorials and all that crap. 😂
For anyone commenting that doesn’t understand my position or doesn’t take the time to actually watch the entire video: In summary, I believe goths do have to listen to goth music. It’s a music-based subculture. One cannot be a goth without listening to/immersing themselves into the music - just like with any other music subculture (metal, punk, emo, etc.).
It doesn't matter if you mostly listen to old goth music? I kinda ended up listening to all these bands in high school as a result liking 80s music or old music in general. I watched ur video all the way through btw.
You did well on your points. Being a goth since the 80s, I can assure you that it is and has always been 100% about the music. There have always been the weekend warriors and fashion fad fans drawn to the look, but the entire scene evolved through the music. We made up the look as we went. Thanks for the video.
It's About Music.. Give back to the scene.. We had to violently defend our look, mild compare to what's seen now, all well and good, we had to Fight, like a dog being made to bite, it's always been about not being a Poser.. looking how you want, and Standing up for what You Like, Orange County California was a Violent place to grow up, I will always respect anyone being what they want and look like.. just be about It .... Music is everything.. Cheers from an Ancient Death Rocker kid.. 50 this year
100% agree, thanks for making this video!! Remove the music, then you have something else. Call yourself darkly inclined or shit, create your own movement, start your own subculture! Imagine a goth club that played Katy Perry or country music; it would cease being a goth night and just another club.
You dont have to only listen to Coldwave, Dark wave, Goth Rock you can listen to whatever you want. But you have to be a FAN of GOTH Music In order to be a goth. Buy the merch, know the history, and know what your talking about. You know? It's not the look it's not an attitude or religion but it's a community. So YES you do have to listen to the music if you want to be a Goth. And I just learned this, if you dont listen to the music but want to be spooky then that's being Darkly Inclined, if you dont listen to the music and only know the books and movies that's being GOTHIC! We are a Music Based Subculture!
New subscriber here. Very well said. I'm 50 years old and have seen the evolution of Goth. It began with the music; the root of Goth IS the music. I love how the fashion has progressed. In the beginning, at least where I lived, heavy eyeliner and a black band T was pretty edgy. Now, there is all of this amazing Goth fashion but, unfortunately, it doesn't fit into my lifestyle. Although about 70% of my wardrobe is black. I grew up watching The Munsters, The Adams Family and Bewiched. Halloween was my favorite holiday (still is) and i always had to dress up as something "scary", not a princess. I prefer horror movies over love stories. I have always been "darkly inclined", but the Goth music started the movement and there is no "Goth" without it.
rdrupie I agree as far as goth music is a must however gothic is defined by the individual it is abiut the literature the fashion and yes the music we goths can listen to whatever we want we don't only have to limit ourselves and listen to one kind of music
I say at least give it a try, even if you don't like one band there's a lot of different styles of goth music. It's not like you can ONLY listen to goth, but at least give different bands a chance. For me I LOVE horror punk and pop punk music, but I also like many different styles of music, you look at my Zune (I still have one of those) and you'll see a wide variety from Green Day to Depeche Mode to Slipknot to Blitzkid to Nine Inch Nails to an even bigger variety of varying styles that aren't even considered goth at all. It's part of what makes the subculture so fun is how there are so many people who you can meet through goth music who can also introduce you into other styles of music you may find yourself enjoying. I love sitting down and listening to new music with people, it's so much fun and you get to know a little more about the person through their taste in music.
I'm glad the goth community on TH-cam seems to be responding positively to this controversy. I feel like this might actually bring about some good change and bring recognition to more bands and such.
From the second that video went up, I knew that there's be a ton of drama to surround it. My Facebook is flooded with people talking about it and making response vids. Like you said, this shouldn't even be a question within the subculture anymore. Newcomers may be understandable, but even then there's the age old comparison of Metalheads = fans of Metal / Punks = fans of Punk Rock. The fact that Goth = fans of Goth Rock (and the other genres associated with it) goes over so many people's heads baffles me. I feel like they're just trying way too hard to find acceptance in something they feel they resonate with because of all of the misguided information they've been fed about it. And then when these people learn what Goth really is, they've been so heavily encouraged that it's whatever they initially perceived it to be, then they reject anything outright and call everyone else an elitist. Tbh I haven't even watched Snowy's vid yet. She's a sweet girl, and I love her vids, but the comment section alone bothered me with that one. Vids like that only serve to perpetuate the idea that "Goth is whatever you want it to be" rather than abiding by its literal definition.
Yup xD I'm eagerly awaiting your vid next lol It really annoys me when the word elitist is just thrown around (or when language is used incorrectly period lol) It makes everyone who is trying to simply keep the culture alive appear to be assholes. Do the people that label themselves Goths but don't like Goth music actually think they'll have fun or be able to connect with a lot of people at any Goth club night or event? Maybe that will be the point when they realize that its not for them. Also, its perhaps the fact that they assume that if they aren't Goth, Goths we won't like them/they aren't "cool"(?) Somehow it needs to get through there heads that this is not the case. Eventually I'm going to get around to watching the vids, but the comments upset me lol.
Goth music is one of my most favorite types of rock out there. Along with New Wave, Synthpop, Post-Punk, Punk Rock, Horror Punk, Deathrock, Hardcore, Jazz Fusion, and Motown. Not a mainstream pop, rap, or hip-hop kind of guy.
The moral of the story is...because it's fun 🖤 You can usually tell what kind of music people listen to by the way they dress. It's kind of false advertising to look goth, yet not listen to goth music, or even know about it. Yes, we listen to other genres too, but actual goth music is the inspiration for our fashion. Just an old bat's opinion anyway 😉🦇
Lose subscribers? My good sir, you earned a new subscriber! I admit I got into the subculture from the fashion first and then I started listening to the music as well as learning more about it.
Beautifully stated. I am 61 years old now and have followed the Goth music genres since the very start and still do. I have dj'ed since the 70s and played a lot of both mainstream and underground dance music (Disco, House, Reggae, Latin, Soul, Funk, Hip Hip, Acid Jazz, 60s Garage Bands, Punk and Post, New Ramantic, Metal, you name it) but I have always had a huge love for Goth, especially since I couldn't just play it everywhere. I never dressed much as Goth, and at times, at my age pull off a nice blend of Trad or Corporate Goth. But the most important point you made: yes, you have to like the music and it must be fun. True the world can be a dark place and there is much sadness and we love and be Goths to vent since there is nothing we can do about the world but express ourselves in the arts or how we look. There is a lot of bad music out there and many short-lived trends. But Goth and all its sub-genres rules. It's where the art really is these days. I will play it til death.
"Although I'm too young to have experienced goth in its glory years..." Actually, I probably got out of the scene before its glory years, but I was seeing bands like 45 Grave and Christian Death (and several other unremembered dark bands) in Los Angeles in 1980. And you're description of the early scene is essentially correct. People seem to forget that the people who forged the early scene were simply people in their late teens and early twenties looking for new music that they could personally relate to; they weren't scholars or academics. I can tell you for a fact that we never got together to discuss the political implications of the sack of Rome, or the proportions and structure of Gothic cathedrals. The scene was about the music. The fashion came in second. Some notions of horror and Gothic literature and film were a very distant third, and ancient history was at the time a little too dull and remote to be of any great concern.
Great video. I'm really enjoying watching different viewpoints on this issue. I'm in agreement that it's about the MUSIC - goths listen to goth music. Yet, people are quite angry about this. :/
of course they are angry. their whole world of misinformation suddenly falls apart if we try to inform them. many people tend to not be able to accept that they are wrong. i'm glad someone popular finally had the balls to tell them no. where i live in germany thanks to that youtuber black friday deathrock/batcave is now also becoming a label for parties that only play stuff like nightwish/him/techno and the people who go there dress like that youtuber and think they're oldschool goths, this bullshit has to stop... those two labels used to be a promise that you get what you're looking for.
I was watching an atheist debate video and something was said that resonated with me because it immediately brought this issue to mind. The man in the video was referring to Christians however if we change Christians to people who claim to be goth but don't listen to the music, he said: 'It's not that people are comfortable being wrong because they probably think they're right. They're uncomfortable being exposed for being wrong." It's all about image.
+Mai Mai I don't live in Germany, so I cannot claim to know what is going on there. But I DO watch ItsBlackFriday's videos and I honestly cannot understand how you can blame her for people calling things 'batcave' or 'deathrock' that aren't. I've seen her list of goth bands, and I don't recall Nightwish being on it. Her videos almost always have music playing in the background, which she lists in the description, and none of it is anything but Goth. Truly, the only relationship I can see is the fact that she is insanely popular and has a huge following that would make any impact at all. Granted I do not watch all of her videos, as there are certain aspects of of her content which I prefer, and others that I don;t care much for. Be that as it may, I've never seen or heard anything remotely resembling symphonic metal or techno. As for H.I.M. That is a band that could be considered goth or goth rock, even if they are not 'old school.'
+ Kai Decadence Honestly, H.I.M. to me sounds in the same vein as bands like Bella Morte, which are Goth Metal or "Goth rock with a twist of metal" as Belle Morte describes their own music. They are a a blending of more than one genre, or what I consider to be a 'cross over' band. I include them, because there is a Goth influence in the music. Are they 'true' goth? No, but the music does contain Goth inspiration and Goth elements.
Yes, Belle Morte's earlier work was definitely more darkwave/goth rock. Their more recent material has a heavier sound. I feel it is a matter of interpretation, really. Not saying either of us is right, nor wrong. We simply view it differently. I respect your opinion. I've seen you on the TH-cam comments sections and have viewed a few of your videos which I liked. You usually have an intelligent offering to the conversation.
Surprised that two people have recognized the avatar I am using. Downtown really doesn't seem to be all that well known. And it looks like I also have another video I need to check out.
Well said! I appreciate this and Angela’s vid immensely, and feel it’s very necc… I began my Goth journey abt 85, when folks had yet to really use the term, and it was all abt music and that shared love of the bands. Fast forward: I can remember it was when a shock-rock “band who will not be mentioned” came out/gained popularity in the early 90’s that all of a sudden everyone, to include soccer mom’s adopted the term Goth for anyone in black and it became a household word. Per my recollection, this is where I saw that first shift of confusion in cross-over. I know plenty of Goths who listen to some of said shock-rock band’s songs, (along with many other non-goth artists) but the main staple for them is Goth music bc, well, they are Goth. On the other hand, just bc someone likes said shock-rock band of the 90’s, this does not make them goth, bc the band in question is not Goth… I don’t think this kind of logic is elitist in any way - I think it can actually be quite helpful for so many who are confused. Anyway, it’s great that so many post 80’s Goths are still so passionate abt the foundational bands bc IMO this is what keeps the scene alive and grounded. Again, great vid!
You earned yourself a subscriber right at the 6:53 marker. That best summed up what I think the Goth scene should be. You don't have to like every goth band out there and just be yourself. Good vid...keep them coming.
Thank you for your video, Accumortis! I also commented on Angela's video but I feel that the music is a key component in what goth truly is. Music is life. The drum beat is in our hearts. 1. Keep up the good fight. 2. I love your star wars stuff. Your collection reminds me of my own! Lots of love, -Auntie Vyvyan
I love how blunt and unapologetic, yet clean and elegant you were in this video. Goth is goth. Period. It's music-based, and if people want to throw tantrums around that shit, then, like you said, "oh well". As a goth since age 11, I am very protective of the subculture, as I'm sure most of us are. I'm just not feeling that "Oh acceptance this and acceptance that" when it means being inaccurate and illogical. By this, I mean that I'm 10000% all about accepting people, but I am *NOT* at all about accepting false truths and the wiping out of the goth history. I believe in the freedom of expression and the freedom of the people. However, stupidity is sickening and frustrating. These types of people need to show some respect and do *RESEARCH!* Btw, I love your channel and I subscribed!
That's what I've been trying to tell these darkly inclined cos they act like they are the most darkest soul "goth" ever comparing themselves to the actual Goth which these darkly inclined think tht the Goth r not goth enough cos they don't wear killstar n branded clothes which sounds stupid to me (ik some goths do wear killstar plus some killstar clothes r fine but most r just overdone with the symbols n stuff) . When I asked them about the music, they dunno how to reply with tht. Turns out they listened to trendy songs than the actual goth songs. Which the conversation ended up with me labelled as ELITIST by them 😑
I blame poser goth and poser alt fashion giants like Hot Topic for the fact that this question even has to be asked. Before they existed, your lifestyle informed your fashion choices, not the other way around. In the 70s, 80s and early 90s, you got your mechanics boots or curbstomping boots from the Army Surplus store or your grandpa's closet bc he was a veteran or retired union laborer. You wore band t-shirts bc you went on tour with your favorite band. There was a chain on your wallet to keep it from falling out in the mosh pit, or to make it harder to steal in the gutters you hung out in. Your pants had safety pins because you found beauty in the process of destroying your clothes and then creating something new and harsh. Very strange today's kids select an esthetic like an ice cream flavor in an ice cream shop rather than dressing for the life they lead. Its very shallow and makes it seem like a lot of young people have no idea who they are yet.
Really refreshing video. I dont dress goth but i love goth music and trying to make it(emphasis on trying, only about 8 months that i started learning to make music). I would dress it, but im mostly worried about how my family would react especially since i come from a Mexican family that isn't keen on music deemed demonic (even though its not), or that my brothers and the rest of family would think its weird. my older brother would probably say im just trying to be "alternative", but i really do romanticize my dark personality and music interest, i have a genuine love for goth culture.
Cool video here. This is the second video I've seen today that I agree with concerning this topic. I'm in my 40's now and I've been into the music since the late 70's and early to mid 80's so, I have seen lots of things happen in the Post Punk/Goth scene over the passing decades. Still, despite so many changes to many things, the one thing that has always been a cornerstone is and will always be the music. The music is what keeps everything else together, be it fashion, art, lit etc. etc.. Decades ago, when someone claimed to be a part of something or like something and then it was discovered that they didn't really like it at all, except for a minor aspect or two, they were labeled with one word - Posers. Why? Cause that's basically what the term means and stands for - "posing", "masquerading" or "pretending" to like or be into something but, in the end, disliking most or all of the main aspects of that particular thing. The term is still valid nowadays. I also agree that you don't have to listen to Goth/Post Punk exclusively to be considered a true member of the scene. I listen to a lot of other styles of music besides Goth/Post Punk *_BUT,_* my *_main_* interest is Goth/Post Punk and other genres that fit within that sphere. For some people like myself who are of an "older vintage" within the scene, it's kinda sad and even annoying at times, to see just how far removed some of the community has become from the roots of the movement as a whole. From squabbling over some of the most trivial and insignificant things like clothing, make-up and ridiculous "ranks", to more serious and damaging issues like racism, physical appearance and social/economic status - all these things just serve to divide and weaken the community that strove to get away from that very same garbage in other scenes or aspects of life, so many years ago.
...how? You are either lying about your age or when you started liking goth... I am 38... and got into the goth scene in the late 90s. Angela Benedict is 42 and only claims to be a 90s' goth So unless you came out the womb listening to goth it doesn't add up. I was born in 83. If I claimed that I went to clubs in the 80s it would be a lie. If you are exactly 40yd you would be born in 81. If you are 49 that would mean you were born in 72 which meant for you to have been into the music in the late 70s' the oldest you would have been was 7 years old. I am only stating this because a lot of people claim to be elder goths on the internet for clout, but they aren't. You may not be lying but your claims are a little suspicious 🤔
I'm still quite young and getting into the subculture myself and I do very much enjoy the music, but I had this "friend" who tried to label himself as goth because he was darkly inclined and likes listening to metal. I tried to explain to him about goth rock and post punk and he thought that because he couldn't find it on spotify and thought he was born in the 90's (the very late 90's, he wouldn't have been old enough to understand anyway) that he knew it better than me. Clearly not! I did my research and actually ended up loving it and realising that I've heard some songs before.
Impressive, and much respect for putting this up despite what you assumed to lose from it (as it seems you've rather gained lots of positive feedback from this!) I definitely agree, and you explain it exceptionally well. There's quite the obscurity in the "goth" label or term and those who self-proclaim to be associated with the subculture assume that "goth" is a term that's "up to any interpretation", to have opinionated definitions more than it's original meaning. Of my understanding, goth is called "goth" for a reason, and not to be used as some umbrella term, not to be synonymous with labels like "dark" or "depressed" or to describe a lover of dark fashions. All labels exist for a reason and have their own distinct qualities/characteristics that differentiate from other labels. That's why there's also the _"gothic"_ label, for those who are more into aspects (or of certain arts) of the gothic subculture who _aren't_ Goth Rock fans but enjoy the fashion or associated 'dark mindset'. Because it initiated from a music-based scene, just as there are labels for metal fans being "metalheads", for punk fans being "punks", and even for emo-pop punk fans being "emo-pop kids", goth rock fans were called "goths", and all of those music-based labels still apply to those meanings. And true, these kinds of videos about the goth subculture to reach out to others about understanding it better may or may not have an impact, but I believe at least you are getting through to some viewers or subscribers, as well as just generally providing a healthy reminder of what the subculture and the labels are all about, so it's not all for naught. :)
Well said! Very insightful! You gained a subscription for me. But anyway, I may not look, but I'm goth because I listen to the music. I have goth music playlist saved on my phone for when I want to listen to it. Still need to find someone to go the goth club with (shoot me, please for I haven't been to a goth club yet!). I also listen to metal, hip hop/rap and r&b (like you said, you can be goth and listen to other genres of music as long as you love and respect the goth music and the subculture).
This is the most succinct, to the point video I’ve seen yet on this topic, thank you!!! I think I can safely classify myself as a gothically inclined metalhead 🤟🏻
Thank you for this video! You have made me more interested in goth scene especially in the 80s and appreciate the authenticity of it. Also, you’re absolutely gorgeous!
It was always about the music, the fashion and such came much later. I even refer to myself as Goth, even though I wear more vintage clothes now than black Goth attire because I still not only listen to the older bands like Rosetta Stone and Christian Death and SoM, I also like the newer ones and different genres as well.
Thank you ! I don't know how it is eleswhere ...but i'm from france . And here it is very hard to explain what is goth to someone. They are all like "oh yeah i'm goth ... I'm listening metal ... I dress in black ... I think about death".. They even have invented a new word "gothisme" .. It mean you have a "goth way of life " and knpw the "gothic philosophy" .. whatever it may be ... So thank you ! You help me pass a beter day :) (Sorry for my bad english by the way)
I grew up on goth and post punk and I love to wear black but I also wear other colors as well green, beige, red, blue and camo. Some of my clothes are green sweaters with goth and post punk patches on them I even have a sick camo bomber jacket with joy division and bauhaus patches on it looks so cool my fashion sense is also inspired by eastern european youth culture.
I might have a way of looking at this that may appease the offended. It's about semantics, goth vs gothic. Goth refers to the music so if you don't listen to it you're not goth. Gothic refers to an aesthetic, for example gothic architecture, gothic film and gothic literature. Gothic in that way has been used for more than a century before goth music was born, and when we look at solely the architecture it's been used a lot longer than a century. Gothic as a descriptor of fashion style was first mentioned in the 1920's. So you can be goth but not gothic if you listen to goth music but don't dress in a gothic aesthetic. And you can be gothic but not goth if you dress in the gothic aesthetic but don't listen to goth music. I like less than 5% of the goth music bands out there so I don't call myself goth. If anyone has any faster paced goth music, faster paced than the well known bands that started it all, to recommend I would really appreciate it.
I agree and have further elaborated on the differences between goth and gothic in some of my recent videos. Maybe you’d be more into deathrock stuff? It’s probably the fastest you’ll get in goth, besides some darkwave. I have a few playlists of underground/newer goth music on my channel if you’d like to browse through those, as well as an hour long mix of some deathrock bands.
@@Accumortis Thanks for the recommendations. I've listened to the 80's bands that everyone knows and recommends, and on top of that some playlists on youtube with more recent goth music. My main "complaint" was that I found it lacked oomph (energy, speed, general feeling of something being up-beat). Having said that I don't hate goth music and I can listen to it as background music. My main go-to is newretrowave/retro synthwave, specifically the happier sounding stuff. I'll listen to more darkwave and deathrock in the future, perhaps I can find more stuff I love. I'll also check out your playlists on your channel. This was the first video I'd seen of you, so I commented without seeing your other videos. Thank you for commenting.
I feel like the people who label "darkly inclined" people they see as all Goth are normies...they see someone all in black or someone like myself who loves horror/alternative style and label it all Goth...like I'm just now discovering I like the music, but I was before just darkly inclined...
I can't imagine myself wearing all black everyday, even tho I love goth music, pink is one of my favourite colors. For me it's never about the looks. I have a friend in school and she is called goth by other people (even tho she's just into dark fashion and she doesnt even know about the music scene).
I wanted to touch up on your video aswell because i already commented on angelas. Honestly feel the same way you do now a days the goth subculture is all about a genre of music wich pretty much fall under an umbrella term goth. The darkly incline is certainly optional as there are som dark subcultures out there. I am both gothicaly/darkly inclined person and a goth because i love the music so much. i just fealt the same way snowy felt back then because i didnt want to offend anyone but i realized i was hurting the subculture rather than helping it. other wise goth would be this vapid. subculture based on superficial vanity thing and i would absolutley hate that. I think the goth scen has every right to protect the music because that litterly is our subculture. Goth is truly a genre of music.
Very well said my friend. I have been in the goth scene for over 20 years and I don't think I am an elitist due to my love of goth music and taking it seriously. The scene has become more fashion I find this both positive and negative. Positive because back then finding goth fashion was next to impossible and incredibly expensive. You usually did your shopping at goodwill and diy. Negative view because the overwhelming growth of goth fashion industry makes people to believe it is more about fashion than music. You should always be yourself but if you are going to call yourself goth than yes you need to like the music and listen to it, without the music the scene would of not been influenced and born.
Thank you for pointing out you can still define yourself as Goth even if you listen to and enjoy music outside of the Goth genre 😊 I grew up listening to The Cure but in recent years I've been attempting to explore more Goth music. I like a bit of She Past Away, Fair Sex and Sopor Aeturnus and I do enjoy metal and prog rock such as Opeth and Porcupine Tree. I guess I consider myself darkly inclined, lover of the fashion, architecture, poetry and films. I love skeletons, skulls, bats and am exploring paganism. I just find this subculture and aesthetic really fascinating and beautiful
I am an Elder Goth from the 80s, New Romantic and yet if the music resonates with me I listen to it. Imagine Bauhaus being played by She Wants Revenge. And sometimes a song without lyrics does the trick for my depression. Goth is Goth and we do not become haters. I still listen to New Wave but also enjoy We are the Fallen as well as Birthday Massacre. Still discovering new bands in this journey of darkness. 🖤
Nice vid, this is why I call myself goth/grunge. Because although my style is more gothic (somewhere between dark grunge and romantic goth depending on the venue) my music leans towards grunge and nu-metal so in theory im probably just dark grunge but I'll admit i call myself goth for ease haha particularly based on the fact grunge is a grandchild so to speak of punk although not necessarily related to goth rock
New to the scene. Still trying to figure out what hides in the willows of the misty marsh. I've been attracted to the subculture largely by a combination of the dark themes of the music and... well, I suppose my idea of what is aesthetically pleasing lines up almost perfectly with the Goth style (I'm big into vampirism and the themes one could draw from it too). I do have to wonder though, what constitutes "listening to Goth rock"? Is it the breadth of songs? The section it takes up in my playlists? The simple fact that I have a special fascination with it? Truth of the matter is, the instrumentals of most of the songs I could care less for - some are fire AF though! - but the lyrics are absolutely the most incredible thing to ever be put into song and they give me more pleasure, more pain, more hatred, more happiness than basically anything else I've ever listened to. Absolutely sensational! Of course, there is the aesthetic, which I take as seriously as the songs, as it is the physical manifestion of my spirit, within a convention of style I aim to please faithfully. Here now is the question of priorities... Were I to have prioritized one aspect of the culture over another, or to have come into it at a different time, does this mean anything really? At the core of this though is a matter of identity and finding exactly where I have intended to be all along without knowing so until now. I've always had an appreciation for the horrors of life and misunderstood creatures... but even more so the monsters that live within the human mind - delusion, mental illness, dark desires and observations, even Carl Jung's "Shadow". A lot of people no doubt find such mental challenges to be too much of a deep pit of sorrow and hopelessness to even acknowledge as relevant, much less to pursue them as artistic themes. I think there's a place for this in the lyrics of the songs.
Ive had a friend of mine who also identifies as goth tell me that the subculture in the 80s was not ' true goth' because it focuses on the music and she was telling me about the gremanic goths and how they have somthing to do with the subulture, i was like, i think your getting confused beetween goth and gothic
See when someone first called me goth in middle school it eased because of what I wore. Which that was the first time I had ever heard of the name and I think because of that introduction to the word that’s what I just figured was part of the definition. I don’t know I just though it was like an umbrella term. Though I have started to poke around the music (now later in life lol) but this whole drama is so weird 😂
The music is what defines goth! There is nothing wrong with defining our subculture. If someone eats meat, they aren't vegan. If someone calls themselves otaku, then you would expect them to regularly consume manga, computer games/console games, and/or anime on the regular. If someone calls themselves an athlete, you would expect them to regularly play a sport. If you are a goth, then you will have a passion for goth music. There's just no way around that. I think people who just like the fashion are darkly inclined, but not goth. With all that being said, there is nothing wrong with not being goth! It takes all kinds to make a world. I think people do need to respect our subculture though and not erase what makes goth goth. It isn't elitist to speak up about who we are. Thank you for being brave.
I agree. I have very electic music taste, but goth music for me is high up there. I'm more of a metal head, but my style of self expression is influenced from lots of music genres. If people want to call me goth it's ok. If not, it's ok. I still take part in the subculture.
I travelled all Eu for gigs and I grew up in a family of record collectors, both my dad and uncle are huge collectors and for example every time I travel to a new city, I always check in advance for record shops or flee markets + i buy regularly lots of records online, that is my one and only vice. I've never had the need to call myself postpunk or industrial (my main genres), that said but in high school and early years of uni I used to dress all black but now I introduced grey, brown and some military green jackets... I try to avoid clichés but I'm drawn to a certain type of literature, movies and.. People + I don't think I'll be able to wear a yellow t-shirt in public :-)
Ive had it with labels. I dress in skin clothing, but mainly black and darker colours. So does that make me a Goth Skin? Probably. And I'm proud of it. I listen to Oi, punk, post punk, goth, terror, speedcore, reggae, rocksteady, ska, terror, speedcore, breakcore etc.
In the beginning (early eighties) it was just another cool underground music scene with a lot of crossover between various musical genres that all shared a lot in common. Punk, metal, goth, glam/sleaze metal, thrash, early indie stuff, all these genres mingled with good and bad in each. Anybody that liked only one genre baffled me back then, I liked the good bands from each genre, why limit myself? As it progressed into the nineties and onwards goth has become a bit of a cartoon movement, very similar to what happened with punk, where a certain look that wasn’t exactly the same as the original style became the uniform of the people that got into it later. Andrew Eldritch hated the term goth and I doubt he sits around listening to any goth music, yet he epitomised the image at its height in the mid eighties. I don’t dress remotely goth these days and I’m too old for the long hair, though I wear a lot of black. I listen to loads of different music but always fall back on punk and goth playlists that heavily feature just a handful of bands and the Pistols and Sisters will be playing at my funeral. So no, you don’t have to listen to goth music if you want to dress like a goth, but it does make you more genuine if you do.
This video is half a decade old now I just put in my two cents, I totally agree that being immersed in your subculture is required to have a valid label attributed to it. As cringe as that is to say aloud, its fundamentally true. I do not believe in gate keeping but the term is so bloated and overused. What is gate keeping to me? Mocking or pushing away anyone who's just starting to understand and get into the scene or music and might be wildly out of orbit for the time being. Dont do that, let them learn and invite them in with music and knowledge. What ISN'T gate keeping? Telling an E Girl who thinks Nirvana or Slipknot is goth with no research whatsoever to get views from thirsty bros who also have no clue what Goth is. I myself am first and foremost a Rivethead at heart, I grew up on Industrial and Punk mostly but always loved Goth. I've never felt "full" goth but have always allowed the label to thrust upon me by anyone who said I was. But I do love Goth too, Sisters of Mercy, Bella Morte, Specimen etc I don't listen to it as much as my main two but I do go to Goth nights, I do love the music. To a true Goth I'll express myself as an Industrial Head or Punk but to everyone else yeah sure I'm goth, close enough with a major appreciation without being a full fledged Goth. Much love to all the Spookies and Cookies
I came hear because i was calked goth because i was listing to Marilyn Manson Sweet Dreams and this is Halloween so i just got bored and locked up goth Music and i like it plus i like the video you made
Perfectly stated and I agree on all points. Well said and not offensive in the slightest. It just makes sense. Let's keep the scene undead an support the bands we enjoy. Stay spooky my friend!🦇🕸️💀
Im not extremely well read(In fact, a lot of people think I read more than they do, but I read very few books. Its mostly information on the internet and documentaries about goth, which isnt really that much ). So, Ive been doing something about it. Im trying to get into a book - club.
Yeah I'm an old school goth but as well as batcave, trad, post punk, I also love electronic music in many forms, and like hair metal even a lot if pre 2000s pop. But goth is a music genre, not just wearing black.
In summary...real goths listen to - anything they like including goth music. I'm happy with that.
Peter Karargiris Does gothic metal count?
@@jadewu111 Gothic metal is an evolution of doom metal, but some metal bands have a hint of goth sound to them and vice versa; I've even heard a fair amount of people refer to old Sisters of Mercy as gothic metal.
Either way, even though gothic metal belongs to metalheads, both they and goths enjoy them frequently.
Nero Corvorosso Oh ok thank you am stupid ok am just getting to know the subculture baby bat you see
@@jadewu111 Nah, don't worry about that. Though if you are coming from gothic metal, I can promise that Sisters of Mercy is a great place to start!
Nero Corvorosso Ok am gonna try 🙂
Well said Goth has spiralled into a popular internet style, with many people completely disregarding the music. It's become trendy but the music isnt...which sucks.
"Goth" fashion and being "goth" but completely disregarding the music is trendy since the 90s and it has been worse than today back then, with the actual subculture almost going extinct due to people having to get in contact with goth stuff and people in real live wich was rare for people who weren't already part of the subculture. To be honest in the last 5 or so years the number of young people interested in our music due to internet is even higher than in the batcave and deathrock revival of 2000-2010 where you despite having internet really needed to be intersted in goth to come across this stuff since there where no big youtubers like black friday and co that are so well known that most of thier fans aren't even goth.
I love how this video is straight up telling what goth is all about without major drama.
I like the drama ... watching all those goth chicks complaining back and forth .. it's funny. Better than watching their make up tutorials and all that crap. 😂
For anyone commenting that doesn’t understand my position or doesn’t take the time to actually watch the entire video: In summary, I believe goths do have to listen to goth music. It’s a music-based subculture. One cannot be a goth without listening to/immersing themselves into the music - just like with any other music subculture (metal, punk, emo, etc.).
Thank you
Agree. People are getting mad because they think they can't listen to other things as well
It doesn't matter if you mostly listen to old goth music? I kinda ended up listening to all these bands in high school as a result liking 80s music or old music in general. I watched ur video all the way through btw.
You did well on your points. Being a goth since the 80s, I can assure you that it is and has always been 100% about the music. There have always been the weekend warriors and fashion fad fans drawn to the look, but the entire scene evolved through the music. We made up the look as we went. Thanks for the video.
It's About Music.. Give back to the scene.. We had to violently defend our look, mild compare to what's seen now, all well and good, we had to Fight, like a dog being made to bite, it's always been about not being a Poser.. looking how you want, and Standing up for what You Like, Orange County California was a Violent place to grow up, I will always respect anyone being what they want and look like.. just be about It ....
Music is everything..
Cheers from an Ancient Death Rocker kid.. 50 this year
100% agree, thanks for making this video!! Remove the music, then you have something else. Call yourself darkly inclined or shit, create your own movement, start your own subculture! Imagine a goth club that played Katy Perry or country music; it would cease being a goth night and just another club.
Ivy Soulstice No not really! It's all about the mindset seeing the beauty in darker things!
@@Whitewitch_25 Joking?
Scoundrel didn't seem like it. It is difficult to tell on the internet ya know.
You dont have to only listen to Coldwave, Dark wave, Goth Rock you can listen to whatever you want. But you have to be a FAN of GOTH Music In order to be a goth. Buy the merch, know the history, and know what your talking about. You know? It's not the look it's not an attitude or religion but it's a community. So YES you do have to listen to the music if you want to be a Goth. And I just learned this, if you dont listen to the music but want to be spooky then that's being Darkly Inclined, if you dont listen to the music and only know the books and movies that's being GOTHIC! We are a Music Based Subculture!
New subscriber here. Very well said. I'm 50 years old and have seen the evolution of Goth. It began with the music; the root of Goth IS the music. I love how the fashion has progressed. In the beginning, at least where I lived, heavy eyeliner and a black band T was pretty edgy. Now, there is all of this amazing Goth fashion but, unfortunately, it doesn't fit into my lifestyle. Although about 70% of my wardrobe is black. I grew up watching The Munsters, The Adams Family and Bewiched. Halloween was my favorite holiday (still is) and i always had to dress up as something "scary", not a princess. I prefer horror movies over love stories. I have always been "darkly inclined", but the Goth music started the movement and there is no "Goth" without it.
rdrupie I agree as far as goth music is a must however gothic is defined by the individual it is abiut the literature the fashion and yes the music we goths can listen to whatever we want we don't only have to limit ourselves and listen to one kind of music
well said rdrupie! ♥ with best regards from Vienna/Austria ♥
I say at least give it a try, even if you don't like one band there's a lot of different styles of goth music. It's not like you can ONLY listen to goth, but at least give different bands a chance.
For me I LOVE horror punk and pop punk music, but I also like many different styles of music, you look at my Zune (I still have one of those) and you'll see a wide variety from Green Day to Depeche Mode to Slipknot to Blitzkid to Nine Inch Nails to an even bigger variety of varying styles that aren't even considered goth at all. It's part of what makes the subculture so fun is how there are so many people who you can meet through goth music who can also introduce you into other styles of music you may find yourself enjoying. I love sitting down and listening to new music with people, it's so much fun and you get to know a little more about the person through their taste in music.
I'm glad the goth community on TH-cam seems to be responding positively to this controversy. I feel like this might actually bring about some good change and bring recognition to more bands and such.
From the second that video went up, I knew that there's be a ton of drama to surround it. My Facebook is flooded with people talking about it and making response vids. Like you said, this shouldn't even be a question within the subculture anymore. Newcomers may be understandable, but even then there's the age old comparison of Metalheads = fans of Metal / Punks = fans of Punk Rock. The fact that Goth = fans of Goth Rock (and the other genres associated with it) goes over so many people's heads baffles me. I feel like they're just trying way too hard to find acceptance in something they feel they resonate with because of all of the misguided information they've been fed about it. And then when these people learn what Goth really is, they've been so heavily encouraged that it's whatever they initially perceived it to be, then they reject anything outright and call everyone else an elitist.
Tbh I haven't even watched Snowy's vid yet. She's a sweet girl, and I love her vids, but the comment section alone bothered me with that one. Vids like that only serve to perpetuate the idea that "Goth is whatever you want it to be" rather than abiding by its literal definition.
Yup xD
I'm eagerly awaiting your vid next lol
It really annoys me when the word elitist is just thrown around (or when language is used incorrectly period lol) It makes everyone who is trying to simply keep the culture alive appear to be assholes. Do the people that label themselves Goths but don't like Goth music actually think they'll have fun or be able to connect with a lot of people at any Goth club night or event? Maybe that will be the point when they realize that its not for them. Also, its perhaps the fact that they assume that if they aren't Goth, Goths we won't like them/they aren't "cool"(?) Somehow it needs to get through there heads that this is not the case.
Eventually I'm going to get around to watching the vids, but the comments upset me lol.
Some goths do listen to metal even though they heavily listen to gothic music
I'm goth and I also listen to metal and sometimes industrial
That's cool. I'm a metalhead. I find goths very interesting. I am even into some gothy music like Joy Division and The Smiths.
Same.
Im a metalhead I guess ❤️
I'm so old school I'm Visigothic.
Good luck with the sacking of Rome.
Speak the gothic language or germanic.
Lol af.
Sad that videos like this even have to exist.
Common sense is not common and I dont believe it ever has been.
Goth music is one of my most favorite types of rock out there. Along with New Wave, Synthpop, Post-Punk, Punk Rock, Horror Punk, Deathrock, Hardcore, Jazz Fusion, and Motown. Not a mainstream pop, rap, or hip-hop kind of guy.
The moral of the story is...because it's fun 🖤
You can usually tell what kind of music people listen to by the way they dress. It's kind of false advertising to look goth, yet not listen to goth music, or even know about it. Yes, we listen to other genres too, but actual goth music is the inspiration for our fashion. Just an old bat's opinion anyway 😉🦇
Lose subscribers? My good sir, you earned a new subscriber! I admit I got into the subculture from the fashion first and then I started listening to the music as well as learning more about it.
without starting the video, yes goths have to listen to goth music :)
so many people think listening to lil peep makes them goth lmao it's so cringe
Is your profile pic Euronymous?
3 years later and this is still one of the best answers to the question yet.
I’ve been goth since 1980. I still am today.
Beautifully stated. I am 61 years old now and have followed the Goth music genres since the very start and still do. I have dj'ed since the 70s and played a lot of both mainstream and underground dance music (Disco, House, Reggae, Latin, Soul, Funk, Hip Hip, Acid Jazz, 60s Garage Bands, Punk and Post, New Ramantic, Metal, you name it) but I have always had a huge love for Goth, especially since I couldn't just play it everywhere. I never dressed much as Goth, and at times, at my age pull off a nice blend of Trad or Corporate Goth. But the most important point you made: yes, you have to like the music and it must be fun. True the world can be a dark place and there is much sadness and we love and be Goths to vent since there is nothing we can do about the world but express ourselves in the arts or how we look. There is a lot of bad music out there and many short-lived trends. But Goth and all its sub-genres rules. It's where the art really is these days. I will play it til death.
People don't realize that yes goth has its own special music.
Perfect explanation of the subculture
"Although I'm too young to have experienced goth in its glory years..."
Actually, I probably got out of the scene before its glory years, but I was seeing bands like 45 Grave and Christian Death (and several other unremembered dark bands) in Los Angeles in 1980.
And you're description of the early scene is essentially correct. People seem to forget that the people who forged the early scene were simply people in their late teens and early twenties looking for new music that they could personally relate to; they weren't scholars or academics. I can tell you for a fact that we never got together to discuss the political implications of the sack of Rome, or the proportions and structure of Gothic cathedrals. The scene was about the music. The fashion came in second. Some notions of horror and Gothic literature and film were a very distant third, and ancient history was at the time a little too dull and remote to be of any great concern.
Great video. I'm really enjoying watching different viewpoints on this issue. I'm in agreement that it's about the MUSIC - goths listen to goth music. Yet, people are quite angry about this. :/
of course they are angry. their whole world of misinformation suddenly falls apart if we try to inform them. many people tend to not be able to accept that they are wrong. i'm glad someone popular finally had the balls to tell them no. where i live in germany thanks to that youtuber black friday deathrock/batcave is now also becoming a label for parties that only play stuff like nightwish/him/techno and the people who go there dress like that youtuber and think they're oldschool goths, this bullshit has to stop... those two labels used to be a promise that you get what you're looking for.
I was watching an atheist debate video and something was said that resonated with me because it immediately brought this issue to mind. The man in the video was referring to Christians however if we change Christians to people who claim to be goth but don't listen to the music, he said: 'It's not that people are comfortable being wrong because they probably think they're right. They're uncomfortable being exposed for being wrong." It's all about image.
+Mai Mai I don't live in Germany, so I cannot claim to know what is going on there. But I DO watch ItsBlackFriday's videos and I honestly cannot understand how you can blame her for people calling things 'batcave' or 'deathrock' that aren't. I've seen her list of goth bands, and I don't recall Nightwish being on it. Her videos almost always have music playing in the background, which she lists in the description, and none of it is anything but Goth. Truly, the only relationship I can see is the fact that she is insanely popular and has a huge following that would make any impact at all.
Granted I do not watch all of her videos, as there are certain aspects of of her content which I prefer, and others that I don;t care much for. Be that as it may, I've never seen or heard anything remotely resembling symphonic metal or techno. As for H.I.M. That is a band that could be considered goth or goth rock, even if they are not 'old school.'
+ Kai Decadence Honestly, H.I.M. to me sounds in the same vein as bands like Bella Morte, which are Goth Metal or "Goth rock with a twist of metal" as Belle Morte describes their own music. They are a a blending of more than one genre, or what I consider to be a 'cross over' band. I include them, because there is a Goth influence in the music. Are they 'true' goth? No, but the music does contain Goth inspiration and Goth elements.
Yes, Belle Morte's earlier work was definitely more darkwave/goth rock. Their more recent material has a heavier sound. I feel it is a matter of interpretation, really. Not saying either of us is right, nor wrong. We simply view it differently. I respect your opinion. I've seen you on the TH-cam comments sections and have viewed a few of your videos which I liked. You usually have an intelligent offering to the conversation.
I support what you have said %100. Thank you for standing up and saying it. You just got another subscriber.
I like how clearly put this video is and how it emphasizes the idea of a music scene. It really just cuts straight to the point.
Thank you! I tried my best to keep it that way.
Kai Decadence I LOVE Downtown. I think I found it from one of your videos like last year if I'm remembering correctly, haha.
Surprised that two people have recognized the avatar I am using. Downtown really doesn't seem to be all that well known. And it looks like I also have another video I need to check out.
Well said! I appreciate this and Angela’s vid immensely, and feel it’s very necc… I began my Goth journey abt 85, when folks had yet to really use the term, and it was all abt music and that shared love of the bands. Fast forward: I can remember it was when a shock-rock “band who will not be mentioned” came out/gained popularity in the early 90’s that all of a sudden everyone, to include soccer mom’s adopted the term Goth for anyone in black and it became a household word. Per my recollection, this is where I saw that first shift of confusion in cross-over. I know plenty of Goths who listen to some of said shock-rock band’s songs, (along with many other non-goth artists) but the main staple for them is Goth music bc, well, they are Goth. On the other hand, just bc someone likes said shock-rock band of the 90’s, this does not make them goth, bc the band in question is not Goth… I don’t think this kind of logic is elitist in any way - I think it can actually be quite helpful for so many who are confused. Anyway, it’s great that so many post 80’s Goths are still so passionate abt the foundational bands bc IMO this is what keeps the scene alive and grounded. Again, great vid!
You earned yourself a subscriber right at the 6:53 marker. That best summed up what I think the Goth scene should be. You don't have to like every goth band out there and just be yourself. Good vid...keep them coming.
Thank you for your video, Accumortis! I also commented on Angela's video but I feel that the music is a key component in what goth truly is. Music is life. The drum beat is in our hearts. 1. Keep up the good fight. 2. I love your star wars stuff. Your collection reminds me of my own!
Lots of love,
-Auntie Vyvyan
Thank you! I'm glad some people can appreciate my Star Wars collection, haha.
I love how blunt and unapologetic, yet clean and elegant you were in this video. Goth is goth. Period. It's music-based, and if people want to throw tantrums around that shit, then, like you said, "oh well". As a goth since age 11, I am very protective of the subculture, as I'm sure most of us are. I'm just not feeling that "Oh acceptance this and acceptance that" when it means being inaccurate and illogical. By this, I mean that I'm 10000% all about accepting people, but I am *NOT* at all about accepting false truths and the wiping out of the goth history. I believe in the freedom of expression and the freedom of the people. However, stupidity is sickening and frustrating. These types of people need to show some respect and do *RESEARCH!*
Btw, I love your channel and I subscribed!
That's what I've been trying to tell these darkly inclined cos they act like they are the most darkest soul "goth" ever comparing themselves to the actual Goth which these darkly inclined think tht the Goth r not goth enough cos they don't wear killstar n branded clothes which sounds stupid to me (ik some goths do wear killstar plus some killstar clothes r fine but most r just overdone with the symbols n stuff) . When I asked them about the music, they dunno how to reply with tht. Turns out they listened to trendy songs than the actual goth songs. Which the conversation ended up with me labelled as ELITIST by them 😑
I blame poser goth and poser alt fashion giants like Hot Topic for the fact that this question even has to be asked. Before they existed, your lifestyle informed your fashion choices, not the other way around. In the 70s, 80s and early 90s, you got your mechanics boots or curbstomping boots from the Army Surplus store or your grandpa's closet bc he was a veteran or retired union laborer. You wore band t-shirts bc you went on tour with your favorite band. There was a chain on your wallet to keep it from falling out in the mosh pit, or to make it harder to steal in the gutters you hung out in. Your pants had safety pins because you found beauty in the process of destroying your clothes and then creating something new and harsh. Very strange today's kids select an esthetic like an ice cream flavor in an ice cream shop rather than dressing for the life they lead. Its very shallow and makes it seem like a lot of young people have no idea who they are yet.
Really refreshing video. I dont dress goth but i love goth music and trying to make it(emphasis on trying, only about 8 months that i started learning to make music). I would dress it, but im mostly worried about how my family would react especially since i come from a Mexican family that isn't keen on music deemed demonic (even though its not), or that my brothers and the rest of family would think its weird. my older brother would probably say im just trying to be "alternative", but i really do romanticize my dark personality and music interest, i have a genuine love for goth culture.
Subscribed. You've explained it very well and I agree that it shouldn't even be a question today.
Cool video here. This is the second video I've seen today that I agree with concerning this topic. I'm in my 40's now and I've been into the music since the late 70's and early to mid 80's so, I have seen lots of things happen in the Post Punk/Goth scene over the passing decades. Still, despite so many changes to many things, the one thing that has always been a cornerstone is and will always be the music. The music is what keeps everything else together, be it fashion, art, lit etc. etc..
Decades ago, when someone claimed to be a part of something or like something and then it was discovered that they didn't really like it at all, except for a minor aspect or two, they were labeled with one word - Posers. Why? Cause that's basically what the term means and stands for - "posing", "masquerading" or "pretending" to like or be into something but, in the end, disliking most or all of the main aspects of that particular thing. The term is still valid nowadays.
I also agree that you don't have to listen to Goth/Post Punk exclusively to be considered a true member of the scene. I listen to a lot of other styles of music besides Goth/Post Punk *_BUT,_* my *_main_* interest is Goth/Post Punk and other genres that fit within that sphere. For some people like myself who are of an "older vintage" within the scene, it's kinda sad and even annoying at times, to see just how far removed some of the community has become from the roots of the movement as a whole.
From squabbling over some of the most trivial and insignificant things like clothing, make-up and ridiculous "ranks", to more serious and damaging issues like racism, physical appearance and social/economic status - all these things just serve to divide and weaken the community that strove to get away from that very same garbage in other scenes or aspects of life, so many years ago.
...how? You are either lying about your age or when you started liking goth... I am 38... and got into the goth scene in the late 90s.
Angela Benedict is 42 and only claims to be a 90s' goth
So unless you came out the womb listening to goth it doesn't add up. I was born in 83. If I claimed that I went to clubs in the 80s it would be a lie.
If you are exactly 40yd you would be born in 81. If you are 49 that would mean you were born in 72 which meant for you to have been into the music in the late 70s' the oldest you would have been was 7 years old.
I am only stating this because a lot of people claim to be elder goths on the internet for clout, but they aren't.
You may not be lying but your claims are a little suspicious 🤔
I'm still quite young and getting into the subculture myself and I do very much enjoy the music, but I had this "friend" who tried to label himself as goth because he was darkly inclined and likes listening to metal. I tried to explain to him about goth rock and post punk and he thought that because he couldn't find it on spotify and thought he was born in the 90's (the very late 90's, he wouldn't have been old enough to understand anyway) that he knew it better than me. Clearly not!
I did my research and actually ended up loving it and realising that I've heard some songs before.
the best video about this intire drama i ve seen up to now. THANKYOU...
Impressive, and much respect for putting this up despite what you assumed to lose from it (as it seems you've rather gained lots of positive feedback from this!)
I definitely agree, and you explain it exceptionally well. There's quite the obscurity in the "goth" label or term and those who self-proclaim to be associated with the subculture assume that "goth" is a term that's "up to any interpretation", to have opinionated definitions more than it's original meaning.
Of my understanding, goth is called "goth" for a reason, and not to be used as some umbrella term, not to be synonymous with labels like "dark" or "depressed" or to describe a lover of dark fashions. All labels exist for a reason and have their own distinct qualities/characteristics that differentiate from other labels.
That's why there's also the _"gothic"_ label, for those who are more into aspects (or of certain arts) of the gothic subculture who _aren't_ Goth Rock fans but enjoy the fashion or associated 'dark mindset'.
Because it initiated from a music-based scene, just as there are labels for metal fans being "metalheads", for punk fans being "punks", and even for emo-pop punk fans being "emo-pop kids", goth rock fans were called "goths", and all of those music-based labels still apply to those meanings.
And true, these kinds of videos about the goth subculture to reach out to others about understanding it better may or may not have an impact, but I believe at least you are getting through to some viewers or subscribers, as well as just generally providing a healthy reminder of what the subculture and the labels are all about, so it's not all for naught. :)
Agree whole heartedly. Lol people are STILL arguing about this
Zarina Zombi3 It never ends.
When will it end!!!🤣
sorry yall but this guy is right
Well said! Very insightful! You gained a subscription for me. But anyway, I may not look, but I'm goth because I listen to the music. I have goth music playlist saved on my phone for when I want to listen to it. Still need to find someone to go the goth club with (shoot me, please for I haven't been to a goth club yet!). I also listen to metal, hip hop/rap and r&b (like you said, you can be goth and listen to other genres of music as long as you love and respect the goth music and the subculture).
Thank you for posting this .
This is the most succinct, to the point video I’ve seen yet on this topic, thank you!!! I think I can safely classify myself as a gothically inclined metalhead 🤟🏻
THIS. Thank you so much for this video.
Thank you for this video! You have made me more interested in goth scene especially in the 80s and appreciate the authenticity of it. Also, you’re absolutely gorgeous!
This is still one of my most favourite videos ever
It all begins and ends with the music.
It was always about the music, the fashion and such came much later. I even refer to myself as Goth, even though I wear more vintage clothes now than black Goth attire because I still not only listen to the older bands like Rosetta Stone and Christian Death and SoM, I also like the newer ones and different genres as well.
Yes! You earned a subscriber! Thank you young man!
I got Many years trying to found someone who talks about this. Greetings from Chile
Visigoths: "oh nooooooooo"
very well said! simply put and too the point. the truth is the truth, it stands alone. either you believe it or you're just wrong.
Thank you !
I don't know how it is eleswhere ...but i'm from france . And here it is very hard to explain what is goth to someone.
They are all like "oh yeah i'm goth ... I'm listening metal ... I dress in black ... I think about death".. They even have invented a new word "gothisme" .. It mean you have a "goth way of life " and knpw the "gothic philosophy" .. whatever it may be ...
So thank you ! You help me pass a beter day :)
(Sorry for my bad english by the way)
Here in Latin America dressing in black is the equivalent of being a Goth, even when people don't know about the culture.
Thank you for this amazinly said video! Truly a great goth inspirational movement
I grew up on goth and post punk and I love to wear black but I also wear other colors as well green, beige, red, blue and camo. Some of my clothes are green sweaters with goth and post punk patches on them I even have a sick camo bomber jacket with joy division and bauhaus patches on it looks so cool my fashion sense is also inspired by eastern european youth culture.
I might have a way of looking at this that may appease the offended. It's about semantics, goth vs gothic.
Goth refers to the music so if you don't listen to it you're not goth.
Gothic refers to an aesthetic, for example gothic architecture, gothic film and gothic literature. Gothic in that way has been used for more than a century before goth music was born, and when we look at solely the architecture it's been used a lot longer than a century.
Gothic as a descriptor of fashion style was first mentioned in the 1920's.
So you can be goth but not gothic if you listen to goth music but don't dress in a gothic aesthetic. And you can be gothic but not goth if you dress in the gothic aesthetic but don't listen to goth music.
I like less than 5% of the goth music bands out there so I don't call myself goth.
If anyone has any faster paced goth music, faster paced than the well known bands that started it all, to recommend I would really appreciate it.
I agree and have further elaborated on the differences between goth and gothic in some of my recent videos.
Maybe you’d be more into deathrock stuff? It’s probably the fastest you’ll get in goth, besides some darkwave. I have a few playlists of underground/newer goth music on my channel if you’d like to browse through those, as well as an hour long mix of some deathrock bands.
@@Accumortis Thanks for the recommendations. I've listened to the 80's bands that everyone knows and recommends, and on top of that some playlists on youtube with more recent goth music.
My main "complaint" was that I found it lacked oomph (energy, speed, general feeling of something being up-beat). Having said that I don't hate goth music and I can listen to it as background music.
My main go-to is newretrowave/retro synthwave, specifically the happier sounding stuff.
I'll listen to more darkwave and deathrock in the future, perhaps I can find more stuff I love.
I'll also check out your playlists on your channel.
This was the first video I'd seen of you, so I commented without seeing your other videos.
Thank you for commenting.
I feel like the people who label "darkly inclined" people they see as all Goth are normies...they see someone all in black or someone like myself who loves horror/alternative style and label it all Goth...like I'm just now discovering I like the music, but I was before just darkly inclined...
Glad you discovered the music. Welcome to goth.
I can't imagine myself wearing all black everyday, even tho I love goth music, pink is one of my favourite colors. For me it's never about the looks. I have a friend in school and she is called goth by other people (even tho she's just into dark fashion and she doesnt even know about the music scene).
Someone described it a while back that helped me. There's goth and gothic. One is about the music, one is about the rest and you can be one or both.
Well Said Love! Goth & Metal Are My Top Favorites I Also Enjoy Pop & R&B
Great video thanks 😊
Very well put!
I really liked the video, I'm going to subscribe!
I wanted to touch up on your video aswell because i already commented on angelas. Honestly feel the same way you do now a days the goth subculture is all about a genre of music wich pretty much fall under an umbrella term goth. The darkly incline is certainly optional as there are som dark subcultures out there. I am both gothicaly/darkly inclined person and a goth because i love the music so much. i just fealt the same way snowy felt back then because i didnt want to offend anyone but i realized i was hurting the subculture rather than helping it. other wise goth would be this vapid. subculture based on superficial vanity thing and i would absolutley hate that. I think the goth scen has every right to protect the music because that litterly is our subculture. Goth is truly a genre of music.
great video, I completely agree with you.
Very well said my friend. I have been in the goth scene for over 20 years and I don't think I am an elitist due to my love of goth music and taking it seriously. The scene has become more fashion I find this both positive and negative. Positive because back then finding goth fashion was next to impossible and incredibly expensive. You usually did your shopping at goodwill and diy. Negative view because the overwhelming growth of goth fashion industry makes people to believe it is more about fashion than music. You should always be yourself but if you are going to call yourself goth than yes you need to like the music and listen to it, without the music the scene would of not been influenced and born.
Thank you for pointing out you can still define yourself as Goth even if you listen to and enjoy music outside of the Goth genre 😊 I grew up listening to The Cure but in recent years I've been attempting to explore more Goth music. I like a bit of She Past Away, Fair Sex and Sopor Aeturnus and I do enjoy metal and prog rock such as Opeth and Porcupine Tree. I guess I consider myself darkly inclined, lover of the fashion, architecture, poetry and films. I love skeletons, skulls, bats and am exploring paganism. I just find this subculture and aesthetic really fascinating and beautiful
I am an Elder Goth from the 80s, New Romantic and yet if the music resonates with me I listen to it. Imagine Bauhaus being played by She Wants Revenge. And sometimes a song without lyrics does the trick for my depression. Goth is Goth and we do not become haters. I still listen to New Wave but also enjoy We are the Fallen as well as Birthday Massacre. Still discovering new bands in this journey of darkness. 🖤
Nice vid, this is why I call myself goth/grunge. Because although my style is more gothic (somewhere between dark grunge and romantic goth depending on the venue) my music leans towards grunge and nu-metal so in theory im probably just dark grunge but I'll admit i call myself goth for ease haha particularly based on the fact grunge is a grandchild so to speak of punk although not necessarily related to goth rock
Very well spoken.
Huge fan of hats. Where did you get yours?
New to the scene. Still trying to figure out what hides in the willows of the misty marsh.
I've been attracted to the subculture largely by a combination of the dark themes of the music and... well, I suppose my idea of what is aesthetically pleasing lines up almost perfectly with the Goth style (I'm big into vampirism and the themes one could draw from it too).
I do have to wonder though, what constitutes "listening to Goth rock"? Is it the breadth of songs? The section it takes up in my playlists? The simple fact that I have a special fascination with it? Truth of the matter is, the instrumentals of most of the songs I could care less for - some are fire AF though! - but the lyrics are absolutely the most incredible thing to ever be put into song and they give me more pleasure, more pain, more hatred, more happiness than basically anything else I've ever listened to. Absolutely sensational!
Of course, there is the aesthetic, which I take as seriously as the songs, as it is the physical manifestion of my spirit, within a convention of style I aim to please faithfully. Here now is the question of priorities... Were I to have prioritized one aspect of the culture over another, or to have come into it at a different time, does this mean anything really?
At the core of this though is a matter of identity and finding exactly where I have intended to be all along without knowing so until now. I've always had an appreciation for the horrors of life and misunderstood creatures... but even more so the monsters that live within the human mind - delusion, mental illness, dark desires and observations, even Carl Jung's "Shadow". A lot of people no doubt find such mental challenges to be too much of a deep pit of sorrow and hopelessness to even acknowledge as relevant, much less to pursue them as artistic themes. I think there's a place for this in the lyrics of the songs.
👏 very well said! I love this 🖤🦇
Ive had a friend of mine who also identifies as goth tell me that the subculture in the 80s was not ' true goth' because it focuses on the music and she was telling me about the gremanic goths and how they have somthing to do with the subulture, i was like, i think your getting confused beetween goth and gothic
See when someone first called me goth in middle school it eased because of what I wore. Which that was the first time I had ever heard of the name and I think because of that introduction to the word that’s what I just figured was part of the definition. I don’t know I just though it was like an umbrella term. Though I have started to poke around the music (now later in life lol) but this whole drama is so weird 😂
The music is what defines goth! There is nothing wrong with defining our subculture. If someone eats meat, they aren't vegan. If someone calls themselves otaku, then you would expect them to regularly consume manga, computer games/console games, and/or anime on the regular. If someone calls themselves an athlete, you would expect them to regularly play a sport. If you are a goth, then you will have a passion for goth music. There's just no way around that. I think people who just like the fashion are darkly inclined, but not goth. With all that being said, there is nothing wrong with not being goth! It takes all kinds to make a world. I think people do need to respect our subculture though and not erase what makes goth goth. It isn't elitist to speak up about who we are. Thank you for being brave.
I agree. I have very electic music taste, but goth music for me is high up there. I'm more of a metal head, but my style of self expression is influenced from lots of music genres. If people want to call me goth it's ok. If not, it's ok. I still take part in the subculture.
Underground music is meant for the underground , not the mainstream or Radio
I know this is old but i absolutely love your outfit
I travelled all Eu for gigs and I grew up in a family of record collectors, both my dad and uncle are huge collectors and for example every time I travel to a new city, I always check in advance for record shops or flee markets + i buy regularly lots of records online, that is my one and only vice. I've never had the need to call myself postpunk or industrial (my main genres), that said but in high school and early years of uni I used to dress all black but now I introduced grey, brown and some military green jackets... I try to avoid clichés but I'm drawn to a certain type of literature, movies and.. People + I don't think I'll be able to wear a yellow t-shirt in public :-)
Thank you !
Ive had it with labels. I dress in skin clothing, but mainly black and darker colours. So does that make me a Goth Skin? Probably. And I'm proud of it. I listen to Oi, punk, post punk, goth, terror, speedcore, reggae, rocksteady, ska, terror, speedcore, breakcore etc.
In the beginning (early eighties) it was just another cool underground music scene with a lot of crossover between various musical genres that all shared a lot in common. Punk, metal, goth, glam/sleaze metal, thrash, early indie stuff, all these genres mingled with good and bad in each. Anybody that liked only one genre baffled me back then, I liked the good bands from each genre, why limit myself? As it progressed into the nineties and onwards goth has become a bit of a cartoon movement, very similar to what happened with punk, where a certain look that wasn’t exactly the same as the original style became the uniform of the people that got into it later. Andrew Eldritch hated the term goth and I doubt he sits around listening to any goth music, yet he epitomised the image at its height in the mid eighties. I don’t dress remotely goth these days and I’m too old for the long hair, though I wear a lot of black. I listen to loads of different music but always fall back on punk and goth playlists that heavily feature just a handful of bands and the Pistols and Sisters will be playing at my funeral. So no, you don’t have to listen to goth music if you want to dress like a goth, but it does make you more genuine if you do.
This video is half a decade old now I just put in my two cents, I totally agree that being immersed in your subculture is required to have a valid label attributed to it. As cringe as that is to say aloud, its fundamentally true. I do not believe in gate keeping but the term is so bloated and overused. What is gate keeping to me? Mocking or pushing away anyone who's just starting to understand and get into the scene or music and might be wildly out of orbit for the time being. Dont do that, let them learn and invite them in with music and knowledge. What ISN'T gate keeping? Telling an E Girl who thinks Nirvana or Slipknot is goth with no research whatsoever to get views from thirsty bros who also have no clue what Goth is. I myself am first and foremost a Rivethead at heart, I grew up on Industrial and Punk mostly but always loved Goth. I've never felt "full" goth but have always allowed the label to thrust upon me by anyone who said I was. But I do love Goth too, Sisters of Mercy, Bella Morte, Specimen etc I don't listen to it as much as my main two but I do go to Goth nights, I do love the music. To a true Goth I'll express myself as an Industrial Head or Punk but to everyone else yeah sure I'm goth, close enough with a major appreciation without being a full fledged Goth. Much love to all the Spookies and Cookies
I came hear because i was calked goth because i was listing to Marilyn Manson Sweet Dreams and this is Halloween so i just got bored and locked up goth Music and i like it plus i like the video you made
Fucking soloed the whole argument. Nice!
I definitely agree with you I listen to Susie and the Banshees Joy Division and Bauhaus and Christian death and I still love the genre
Perfectly stated and I agree on all points. Well said and not offensive in the slightest. It just makes sense. Let's keep the scene undead an support the bands we enjoy. Stay spooky my friend!🦇🕸️💀
Im not extremely well read(In fact, a lot of people think I read more than they do, but I read very few books. Its mostly information on the internet and documentaries about goth, which isnt really that much ).
So, Ive been doing something about it.
Im trying to get into a book - club.
Yeah I'm an old school goth but as well as batcave, trad, post punk, I also love electronic music in many forms, and like hair metal even a lot if pre 2000s pop. But goth is a music genre, not just wearing black.
Interesting. Come to think of it, there was a lot of Goth music used in 80s and 90s in movies and tv series.
You just earned a new sub from me. :)
I guess this makes me 'Southern Gothic' 😎
Brilliantly put! I think this may actually gain you subscribers not chase people away 😊💀👻
This man's speaking facts in a very calm and collective way, gotta love it 🔥
So basically I’m goth, punk and a metal head
I am so old school that I follow the germanic pantheon and live in Romania.
I agree with this 100%!