@@SevGW just my opinion but I think there is different levels of danger in regards to seed oils, seed oil straight out of a bottle might be better then seed oil heated and mix with sugar or hfcs
@@eddyyammine9136 But think about how it went from the seed to the bottle! Although, I do think humans have eaten most anything that they could find in Nature which didn't kill them , especially after the mange to control fire!
Incredibly disrespectful host. He spouted the same nonsense over and over, while the guest showed a much greater medical understanding. Then the host concludes his video essentially telling his audience he won the debate just after the guest leaves the call. Not a friendly debate. He just knows Joel Fuhrman has a much greater following, and having him on his podcast will help him peddle his junk... The first 10 minutes was just a bunch of sponsorships... Very disappointed.
That brilliant quote perfectly captures what is wrong with much of nutritional research. As one example, many researchers for decades asked the question what foods raise cholesterol? The more prudent question to have asked would have been is cholesterol the primary cause of heart disease? Just by changing that line of questioning we would have avoided the multi-billion dollar scam that is the statin drug industry.
@@alphacause you misunderstood it mate, asking "is cholesterol the primary cause of heart disease?" this is wrong question to ask, because your genes determine cholesterol biosynthesis, so why would your body want to kill you. what they should be asking, is what things are causing the derangements in our bodies, answering those things will illuminate a deeper understanding of how our bodies interact with food and our physical environment.
I was diagnosed with PCOS, Hashimoto's disease, anxiety and panic attacks. My body and mind was in pain everyday of my life…I went vegan to tried and fix these health issues, I was doing Lou Corona’s juicing recipes and it seem like I keep getting worse and worse and not loosing weight either. Finally I came across Sally Norton’s book “Toxic Superfoods” and that changed everything for me. I started carnivore in mid August and I am down 15 pounds, I’m surprised at how much energy I have, I am coping very well with stress which means no anxiety and panic attacks, my glucose levels on my CGM always between 70-81, also I had very stiff joints and that’s also gone. In a very short period of time I am seeing big changes on the carnivore diet that I never saw while just eating vegetables and juicing for 2 years.
i did carnivore and keto and i found after 1-2 years that the fat was quietly clogging my receptors leading to a worsening of diabetes t2. also it takes about that long for many people to grow tired of eating only anaimals. at some point your body may give you hints. I would test your insulin and blood sugar after a year. you will feel great for the first 6 months and lose weight and be convinced you found heaven like i did but give it time. and dont allow yourself to go into t2 which is hyper insulinemia and resistance. Things hard to see until it is too late. they say people have IR ten years before they are diagnosed. this is a friendly warning to avoid diabetes at all costs. i am not against meat but the minute you stop you will see why it has problems of it own.
Just wondering, if they did an actual long term study showing in 50,000 people that meat actually does lower your lifespan and even dr Paul salidino agreed it’s a legitimate study, would you really stop eating meat?
@@theperson3693 just because Paul Saladino says a study is good or not doesnt make it so. Its the fact that his comments about epidemiology are, for the most part, well reflected in basic statistics, and established scientific teaching (for example: correlation can not prove causation), as well as basic logic and epistemology, that the arguments hold weight. Its not up to some authority to say if a study is valid or not, its up to the actual methodology and maths, which is available for anyone to review, if they know how to do it. There's also the problem that its impossible to properly control for large scale, long term studies like that. We've seen it again and again when things remotely similar are attempted. People misreport their lifestyles, certain factors aren't controlled for, etc. Saladino isnt the only one who's shown concern about healthy/unhealthy user bias. Gordon Guyatt, for one, the man accredited with coining the term 'science based medicine', who is a pescatarian, did a large review of the socalled anti-meat research out there and expressed the same thing, and said that none of the epidemiology actually tells us anything. Too many confouding variales and basic holes in the controls. That being said, I'd say that if, somehow, a twenty year study of high quality meat eaters who dont smoke and who exercise outside a lot, was extremely well controlled the whole time, etc etc, was done, and the results were clear, without controlling for variables, and looking at absolute risk vs relative, and all that, and the results showed a clear statistical leaning towards the meat being bad, and someone read it for themselves and dismissed it outright, they'd be an idiot. To say that they should stop eating meat, though - no one study can set a precedent. Repeatability is essential in science. But yes, such a study - which does not exist - would be necessary to pay attention to.
@@theperson3693 I am shocked that this Saladin fellow is so high strung and kooky acting in his passion, he needs to calm down. He must be full of adrenaline or maybe he's sick. I mean I eat meat but heck I don't desire to eat it at every single meal. I eat it with vegetables or I'll skip it to have beens with rice or maybe just fruit for lunch. What an emotional desperate dude to behave like this.
@@blacksmithie I believe it, it must be the cortisol. I thought it was fear hormones, adrenaline from the traumatized animals he's been eating causing him to be jittery and nervous.
The point is there are no studies so carnivore is still a social experiment. The studies are yet to come. Its only recent. There are studies for plant based
Gotta give props to Doc Fuhrman for maintaining his composure (as did Paul). Takes tremendous courage to come on Paul’s podcast and be challenged in such a direct way! To me this was more of a debate between whether or not epidemiological/observational studies can be trusted. Nonetheless, very thoughtful discussion!
mostly because he is a vegetarian right, they can glue themselves to paintings occasionally haha. But in seriousness, i thought both gave it as good as they got it with Paul being more cordial prior and post debate (ie. talking about snowboarding or whatever...)
@@arno7303 one could say the same about those recommending a carnivore diet, that isn’t a strictly vegan or vegetarian phenomenon. Paul was very glued to the idea that long term observational studies hold no merit in determining long term health outcomes. This was really a debate on what type of study nutrition advice should be based on more than anything.
Yes. I’d love to see joel back on w studies for a round 2 albeit a little more “discussing the science” than taking shots. If not at least go thru the studies he sends assuming that fuhrmie follows thru.
He lost me at “supported by the WHO and backed by the NIH.” That’s really all I needed to hear. Been on Saladino’s diet for a couple months - feel great. Went vegan and stopped at six months, felt like a breeze would knock me over. My only qualm, and something I’ll continue to feel out, is eating something that feels emotions. The journey never ends I guess. Just find what works for you.
what did you eat when you were vegan so many people eat complete shit when they go vegan and they dont supplement b12 iodine and omega 3 you have to add your food into cronometer to make sure you meat requirements espeically for choline as a vegan its not easy to do thats why most people fail a vegan diet i dont blame you ive thought of going back to eating meat a few times from how challenging it can be sometimes, also gluten intolrance and celiac disease is becoming ever more common and literally most prepackaged foods will make you sick if you have that issue like me i cant even eat any grains because they make me sick theyre disgusting
@@RealJonzuk Vegans always cheat with junk because it's impossible to be satiated by the beans and rice. You add seed oils, inflammatory wheat toast, or 'gluten free' toast made out of inflammatory corn. Oats, which make you ravenous after an hour. It's the lack of fat and protein that fuels cravings and it's impossible to stay clean on WFPB. Ask me how I know. If you have gut issues on a vegan diet you're basically done for. All grains are toxic, legumes are both high in FODMAP and histamine and lectins if you don't pressure cook. What else is left lol? You think eating onions and garlic is good for an inflamed gut?
@@Mantis858585 I've now come to the conclusion that no one treats other animal better than humans. have you seen what wild dogs do to their prey? in fact, what all animals do to their prey.
@@happyhealthylife4ever vegan dr ONLY refered to epidemiology studies and EVEN only to american/west studies. Counting in the rest of the world same bullshit nonfactual studies even proved and contradicted his bullshit view. I guess your iq is so low after eating junk that you have problem understanding.
The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life . It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human top survive and flourish on a vegan diet. The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering . Here are some more FACTS 1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year 2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef 3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together 4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase 5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing . 6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre 7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html 8) 1 billion people are already going hungry and can not get clean water .5000 die every year from drinking dirty water 9) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html 10) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down. 11) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all 12) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . The only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat 13) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up . Even if meat eating is slightly better for the health of any isolated individual it is still a proven fact that humans can live a long healthy life on vegan diet and that a vegan diet is much less harmful to the environment .Unless we do Billions will starve due to droughts an famines.
@@rbbiefahFuck me. You need to actually go through each point and do some solid research as a lot of it is totally ridiculous. Wherever you found that was not a good source of information.
The unhealthy vs healthy user was one of the best takes I’ve ever heard. Since mainstream advocated against red meat, people who ate red meat were usually the kind of people to live an unhealthy lifestyle, while people who ate plant based were more likely to live a healthy lifestyle with exercise etc. but that doesn’t mean red meat is bad/plant based is good. Crazy smart guy. Awesome logic
At least you could respond to my comment that there are 1000s of interventional studies though the Gerson Institute who did a documentary: "Food Matters " wherein they show 1000s of cases of TERMINAL INOPERABLE stage 4 cancer patients who left a meat diet and adopted the Gerson diet and therapy and who recovered and lived another 20 -30 years. How do you discredit that ? The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life . It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human top survive and flourish on a vegan diet. The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering . Here are some more FACTS 1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year 2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef 3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together 4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase 5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing . 6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre 7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html
"Crazy smart guy. Awesome logic" Wait. I've been using that logic on anti-vegans for 10 years, when they use logical fallacies (which they usually do). It's called correlation, and you don't have to be smart to show it. You just have to listen to other peoples' podcasts and mimic their talking points.
@@rbbiefah I’m not gonna sit here and get into a debate with you but I’d love to know how anyone can argue that regenerative farming is worse for the environment than monocrop agriculture
@@devinshaw3316 DEBUNKING VIDEOS Regenerative Grazing Debunked by science th-cam.com/video/OSAz-A7S8ow/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/rKjQfn-HR6g/w-d-xo.html&lc=Ugz2SXDPrkxVgTFq7aF4AaABAg.9Yb-cYLGjkV9Ye6wvV5jff also note that almost all monoculture farming is done for either cow feed or biofuel not for human food >if we stopped feeding and eating animals but ate the plants 9/10 of the land used in agriculture could go back to carbon capturing oxygen producing water pumping forests
@rbbiefah be careful while speaking, a tooth might fall out. You frail vegan. Flourishing on a vegan diet hahaha. You're simply delirious due to malnutrition.
As an MD myself, his attempted explanation of “different types of strokes” is so nonsensical and unbelievably embarrassingly incoherent that I almost had a stroke myself when I heard it. 🤷🏼♂️
@@Richard.Atkinson It's fascinating to me. I believe it was Peter Attia who had a 6 part primer on it on his website. My own experimentation showed that I can reliably move my LDL and HDL up or down by varying my bodyweight and exercise. Whether I ate all vegan or 10 eggs a day. Didn't make a difference. And CRP was always < 0.3 since I'm a thin and muscular guy. This guy believes that "dietary cholesterol and saturated fat clogs your arteries y0"
2 things: 1) I knew it was gonna be good when you said "is that why you've said that I should be locked in prison?" And 2) It would also be interesting to speak with some of the more well known "ethical vegans". Loads of people go vegan for a variety of reasons and unfortunately some of those people don't give a shit about health. On that, also interested in a debate on environmental implications of each diet. Super interesting debate, and thanks for the continued education!!
Agriculture began only 10 - 12K years ago, which is less than 5% of the 300K years homo sapiens has existed. So for the first 95% of human existence the ONLY foods available for human consumption were animal flesh/organs and WILD forms of fruits and vegetables (which are NOTHING like the fruits and vegetables we have today which were created by humans through selective breeding - Google "teosinte vs. corn" and you'll see what I mean). Humans literally evolved eating animal-based food products, so it seems counter to evolutionary biology that these foods are harmful, while the far more recently available plant-based foods humans invented AFTER the majority of our evolutionary adaptations had already occurred are better for human health - and that's not even to mention the fraudulently labeled "heart healthy" vegetable seed oils which did not exist until humans invented them in the mid-1800s. The definitive way to settle this is to do a long-term head to head trial of carnivores vs. vegans. I'd be more than happy to sign up for the carnivore group as carnivore has made me more fit at almost age 56 than at anytime since I was in my 20s.
Ancient homo sapians were not eating a meat only diet. Meat was a luxury. Hunting with a spear is an incredibly inefficient means of obtaining calories. Think of the calories burned for the 19/20 failed hunts. They did come across dead animals and eat them for sure. Look at the fecal remains of Paleolithic man for example. They had an average of 90 grams to 120 grams of fiber a day. I eat whole plant based and I don't even get that much a day. The archeological evidence does not support your claims.
You could say the exact same about the animals we eat now. Unless your hunting your own meat, the animals we eat now are genetically different through selective breeding, have higher cholesterol and saturated fat content cause we fatten them up rapidly with GMO corn and soy, are pumped with antibiotics, are put in very unnatural and stressful settings, etc.
At least you could respond to my comment that there are 1000s of interventional studies though the Gerson Institute who did a documentary: "Food Matters " wherein they show 1000s of cases of TERMINAL INOPERABLE stage 4 cancer patients who left a meat diet and adopted the Gerson diet and therapy and who recovered and lived another 20 -30 years. How do you discredit that ? The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life . It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human top survive and flourish on a vegan diet. The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering . Here are some more FACTS 1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year 2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef 3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together 4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase 5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing . 6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre 7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html
"fruits and vegetables (which are NOTHING like the fruits and vegetables we have today which were created by humans through selective breeding" So what. That's an unfortunate reason for ditching your rightful diet of fruit. No one is in bad health because of fruit. I've eaten 100,000 pieces of fruit on my 27 year high-fruit diet, and I'm doing well at age 53.
I couldnt get past the 35 minute mark. All these "friendly debates" do is piss me off having to listen to such non sense from these vegan quacks. They are so sure of themselves. He should have the warning slapped on him. Not paul
Look a fact is a fact . The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life . It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human top survive and flourish on a vegan diet. The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering . Here are some more FACTS 1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year 2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef 3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together 4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase 5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing . 6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre 7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html 8) 1 billion people are already going hungry and can not get clean water .5000 die every year from drinking dirty water 9) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html 10) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down. 11) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all 12) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . The only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat 13) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up . Even if meat eating is slightly better for the health of any isolated individual it is still a proven fact that humans can live a long healthy life on vegan diet and that a vegan diet is much less harmful to the environment .Unless we do Billions will starve due to droughts an famines.
this was pretty ridiculous, i follow you both but whenever you could Paul you pulled really low blows and act like a kid. Constantly saying Furhman was over talking you when you did it to him a hundred times more. hard to watch at times
Keep killing it Paul, love seeing the relentlessness and watching you really dig to the core of this massive issue. Keep pushing brotha, you're making a massive change 🤙
Sadly even if Paul had long term studies (aside from the obvious ancestral study) this guy would never admit that Paul is right. His legacy would go down in history as wrong and judging by how highly he thinks of himself in his introduction, humility is not something he’s capable of nor will his narrow minded agenda allow him to be more receptive to what Paul has to say and has studied. He lost me with his affiliation to PBS👎🏻
The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life . It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human top survive and flourish on a vegan diet. The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering . Here are some more FACTS 1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year 2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef 3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together 4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase 5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing . 6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre 7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html 8) 1 billion people are already going hungry and can not get clean water .5000 die every year from drinking dirty water 9) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html 10) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down. 11) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all 12) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . The only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat 13) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up . Even if meat eating is slightly better for the health of any isolated individual it is still a proven fact that humans can live a long healthy productive life on a vegan diet and that a vegan diet is much less harmful to the environment .Unless we do Billions will starve due to droughts and famines.
The environmentalist wackos who claim cow farts are contributing to climate change are about as ridiculous as the vegan zealots. Evil elites such as Bill Gates buying up our farmlands, (270k acres)......and his goal of being a mass provider of synthetic meat to the populations while he can afford to eat the real thing, makes me realize there's a hidden agenda. The greedy medical association don't want people to be healthy.
@@rbbiefah all of those arguments have to do with the toxic practices of mass production businesses, not the consumption of meat. They would still have to cut down forests to grow the plant foods.
Well done Paul. Shame Joel didn't have evidence to present, despite "writing a book" on the topic. Alarm bells started ringing when he mentioned the Who-backed studies.. Widely known that they are corrupt AF. Personally I mainly eat meat, fish, nuts, eggs and avocado's, but also enjoy salads and some blueberries or a banana after a hard workout. The real villains today are the manufacturers of refined, ultra-processed foods, along with unhealthy, stress-laden lifestyles🙄
How about you go read actual facts and research articles rather than saying “well done Paul” Paul is not smarter than brilliant scientists around the world. A healthy balanced diet is the absolute king.
@@oh_k8 hard disagree. Everyone tells me I look way younger. Host looks awesome and even better in more recent videos. The guest looks like a ghost. Good luck. Be well.
He never really admitted to that in the end, only that some vegans will have to supplement. And Paul jumped in there and said, "with meat!" And he's totally right. This Joel is fairly sharp, just full of nonsense.
Clearly stated. A little bit lol I do agree with your comments about Joel he is a sharp guy just nonsense haha. I think he still prefers none though you are right and taking the supplements
I want Dr Furhman to provide me with a healthy plant diet based on what is only seasonally and geographically available to people in the seasonal North. Excluding all shipped foods in the grocery store.
Fuhrman says the benefit of modern civilization is that we're not limited to what is only available in our region. I tend to agree with him there...I don't really buy the regional argument yet. But, I live in Texas so cattle is pretty native anyway haha
@@isaacaguilera3385 the thing is, the foundation of Dr Paul's focus is on what do humans eat where and when. Local and seasonal are fundamental to human health. Otherwise, if there's ever a breakdown in the food supply chain, those following Dr Furhman's example will starve come winter time.
I always use the MULTIPLE THOUSAND YEAR ICE AGES that our species survived as my closing argument with vegan morons regarding carbs and fruits. As in, how did my Northern European ancestors survive for generations without seeing fruits hardly ever during the glacial periods? Answer: they didn't eat fruits and low veg and here we are thousands of years later 😉
@@isaacaguilera3385 that is a benefit.. but that’s a main driver of climate change. Transportation is the #1 category for emissions. So I t’s not sustainable.. we just live in a good time until it won’t be possible anymore because we’ve destroyed the earth.
@@isaacaguilera3385 that is a benefit.. but that’s a main driver of climate change. Transportation is the #1 category for emissions. So I t’s not sustainable.. we just live in a good time until it won’t be possible anymore because we’ve destroyed the earth.
I DO love it that you guys are pushing back at each other! Excellent discussion, which no longer exists anywhere anymore... High five to the Carnivore dude (Paul :) lol) for having the bazoongas to do it!!! And also, big credit to the ice skating dude for not letting him have his way. Applauding you Both for doing this (y) Excellent!
Paul, you asked who goes to a bbq and eats only steak. I do! At 42 I am in the best shape of my life and absolutely fucking ripped. My nutrition is based around meat, organs, and bone broth. Thanks for your hard work, you are saving lives.
- Kia Ora from grass feed, COVID free New Zealand. Just loading this for my podcast listen on my 2 hour walk in the hills here in a min, but saw you note Jeff - 60 years on the planet, and last 2 have been three quarters meats - one meal a day, hike every day..... all abs are out after hiding for 40 years, well bottom 2 are almost there...... lost around 66 pound -spent a ton on new Levi’s and tops - geez, farken great time to be single as I stroll the beach with a mojito. - love listening to Paul too - just hope all my hair below the Adam’s apple, does not fall out like Paul’s..... Kia Kaha ( Be Strong ). 😎🇳🇿🇺🇸🇳🇿🇺🇸🇳🇿🇺🇸🇳🇿🇺🇸🇳🇿🇺🇸🇳🇿🇺🇸
@@petethekiwi1761 Fellow Kiwi here and in the same situation. Just got back from a walk in the hills with my dogs, I'm the leanest and healthiest I've been in my life, all thanks to quitting my low fat, high carb 'healthy' diet and eating animal products instead!
Same here exact strategy with a fair bit of raw honey....... 57 and women want to no where then can get a guy with this kind of stamina? I say go find yourself a conivore! They look at me funny 😆 lol
I need more of this. These are the debates that keep the communication going and despite which camp your in, everyone talking/listening only wants to help improve their health and the health of those they care about
1) There are plenty of interventive studies showing that meat eaters with chronic diseases fully recover when whey adopt a vegan diet . See the Gerson institutes ‘DVD “ FOOD MATTERS “ documentary (netflix or your local library ) 2) The reason why there are no interventive studies showing that a healthy vegan will develop disease if the eat a meat diet is because a) the vegans are unwilling to participate b) yiu can not have an interventive study unless there is a disease condition . A vegan on a whole food diet (no refined foods ) does not any disease 3) Paul said we need meat for our brain : th-cam.com/video/kVlSX_EF8wE/w-d-xo.html Why HISTORY's Greatest Minds Didn't EAT MEAT Socraties , Leonardo DaVinci , Albert Einstein , Nikolai Telsa , Buddha , Rosa Parks, Bengamin Franklin , Sir Issaac Newton ,Thomas Edison , Susan B Anthony , Gandhi, (note: I interject here that DHA is lost in sex .It is in semen . Our brain needs DHA to be healthy so don’t over do the sex ) 4) Paul said we need meat for our bodies . Meat was out lawed in Japan from 675-1875 AD. During that time a legendary vegan warrior , THE SAMURAI, gained prominence . Today we have the extremely fats , strong , tough Shaolin Monks who are all pure vegan . I have ben vegan 40 years .In 1982 I became lacto vegan .In 1995 I became pure vegan. At that time I was almost 35 and could barely run my daily 4 miles without wanting to walk . In 1995 I quit the milk an cottage cheese and got my protein from collards , kale , turnip greens , cauliflower and bok choy and stopped eating bulgar and wheat flakes and started sprouting whole grain and soon I could run 10 miles with no fatigue .Today at age 62 I still run 7 miles 4-5 times a week and work 60 hours a week on my small farm( see my youtube videos . 5) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html 6) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down. 7) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all 8) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . the only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat 9) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up . 10) I posted these in the main section but Paul deleted them….Don’t we need a heathy environment to be healthy ?
If u have an open mind you might learn something. I have not met an open minded vegan yet. They do not want their minds changed. It's religious. Religious is fine, just don't pretend it's science.
He understands it all even with supplementing with meat. His point has been about too much meat not being safe like in the China study expresses more than 10-20 percent meat in diet grows cancer and below that it stops.
And the funniest part is he implored Paul at one point, “if you could just leave your biases and see the facts,” meanwhile rigidly maintaining and defending his own biases… 😂
Hi! I want to say I was plant based ( as I started calling it as I don’t like labels) for over 20 years… but always have loved learning and growing through that process… I read and listen to Drs. From all sides and have always kept an open mind ( I have been married to a non-plant based man for nearly 13 years, together 15… and I respect his freedom as he does mine…), with that I used to be a strict vegan but decided through education it wasn’t what I wanted (the label). I am currently learning more and also incorporating animal products (organic, grass fed) somewhat into my life… I always like to think of myself as open to learning and new ideas… But I do agree on the point that most of the people who consider themselves labeled as a vegan may not be so open… In college my housemates didn’t want to turn up the heat, and we lived in Syracuse…. It was cold… so I wore my grandmother’s fur cape… at the same time I considered myself a vegan and lived with very strict vegan housemates who were upset at me… I said I was cold and it was vintage… Just letting you know some of us who once decidedly were labeled were actually open minded… I think of myself as on a journey, a life-learner… Sorry for the long reply 🙂
I would have loved you to mention Weston Price's work traveling to 14 countries in the 1930's, studying cultures that did not have exposure to "foods of modern commerce". His book, "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" complete with amazing data and photographs shows that all the cultures that were healthiest (He was a researcher and had specific ways to determine levels of health) all used predominately animal food sources. I would really like to hear Joel Fuhrman's opinion after reading this book
Weston A Price Foundation has the best dietary principles. They don't demonize any food group. Instead they explain how each food group can become unhealthy when processed and refined. For example, for vegetables they explain how many cultures fermented and cooked their vegetables and ate them with lots of healthy saturated fats. They also say people shouldn't eat grains unless they have been soaked or fermented before cooking. I think many of these people are missing the point. Paul puts too much emphasis on demonizing vegetables like kale but the main problem in developed countries is that they are eating tons of processed food with artificial ingredients. Foods loaded with processed sugar, hydrogenated oils, artificial chemicals, MSG, etc.
It has quickly became evident to me Dr. Fuhrman has no idea who he is dealing with (he is completely talking down to Dr. Saladino) and now at 22:00 he mentions 'blue zones.' Oh boy. This should be interesting...
He did absolutely zero preparation for this debate. So embarrassing. You can be wrong and still look prepared, but that’s not even remotely true of this poor guy.
Dr. Fuhrman is basing his beliefs on the WHO and a cancer research center? Those 2 of the worst places to get viable information from. Also, any study can be made to say whatever the funding group wants it to say.
This kind of felt like an ambush...Joel was on vacation, so I'm not surprised he didn't have all his evidence. Also, you tended to interrupt him quite often but were all over him about interrupting. Thanks for having this discussion.
I probably would have respected Joel more if • he had actual studies he could pull-up and share • didn’t resort to insults when respectfully challenged • showed a greater understanding of different types of studies, including their strengths and weaknesses. Instead, he kept stating associational studies as facts. • and didn’t have a “I’m right and you’re wrong” type of attitude the whole time. On the other hand, Paul did an amazing job debating. He was prepared, respectful, and was not intimidated by all his “credentials”.
Fuhrman based a lot of his conclusions that he shared in his book on the famous China study. However, data was cherry picked in the published paper. Also, the blue zones were cherry picked and also the evidenced gathered in some of them, as Saladino pointed out, was wrong to begin with. For example, in the Greek islands, cheese, goat and pork are frequently consumed.
at min. 55: "keto is dangerous longterm." I've been following the Atkins diet and now keto/carnivore for over 20 years and have never been healthier. my blood work is that of a 20 year old WRT inflammatory markers, insulin levels, etc. Of course my lipid panel shows higher levels of CHL and LDL, but my TG:HDL ratio is 0.5
Great number. I started Atkins in 1995. Been low carb ever since but struggled due to all the high carb scolds like Furman who would not let me be low carb enough. Went extremely low carb/carnivore about 10.5 months ago eating one meal a day and since then my TG/HDL numbers have been 1.43 last August on extremely low carb and 1.4 this April on carnivore. Prior ratios were not that bad --in the low 2s -- but still gained weight when I was over 50 or 60 grams of carbs a day. Going Omad and extremely low carb/carnivore dropped 25 pounds and reduced BMI from over thirty to 26. And I am 70. All labs are normal except total cholesterol and LDL. Get this -- my testosterone was 713 last August and 900 this April in 70 year old man. But that is due primarily to progesterone which I have taken daily since 2013. Progesterone is the precursor of testosterone and progesterone is made from LDL. Even with high LDL I could not make enough progesterone to keep normal levels (much less optimal ones) of testosterone. We probably all are progesterone deficient. But going extremely low carb/carnivore has probably bumped up my testosterone a couple hundred points.
@@mrcadoia It is just amazing what progesterone will do for men. Testosterone is made from progesterone. It is that simple. More progesterone, more testosterone. I was applying (topically) about 120 mg of progesterone a day to get these results. In the past at 60 mg a day I was 590. I upped the progesterone due to pain from shingles (post herpetic neuralgia) and joint pain. Progesterone is a great anti-inflammatory and pain killer. My testosterone shot up in the process. The amount of progesterone I use costs me about $20 to $25 a month.
@@mrcadoia raypeat.com is the best place to study progesterone. I am not sure that Dr. Peat mentions that it will increase testosterone. But that is what happened to me when I started taking it for pain and inflammation for which it is well known as a treatment. I have recommended it to many people and they have reported similar results.
People like this Fuhrman dude will never come to any logical conclusion when it comes to diet. The way he frames his sentences shows his way of thinking: ''comparing animal protein to plant protein'' is already such a loaded comparison. Where does the animal come from, how was the diet of the animal, is it processed, is it filled with chemicals and so on... . Just your typical stubborn scientism study guy who doesn't see the truth when it is right in front of him and contradicts with his ''studies''. Not listening to such people anymore.
Saladino: "What makes you think the earth is flat?" Fuhrman: "Everybody knows the earth is flat!" Saladino: Do you have any data to prove this claim? Fuhrman: "Yes!" Saladino: "Show us." Fuhrman... "Well... I know you are but what am I ?!"
This debate literally reminded me of the story of the young doctor (I can't recall the name, unfortunately) who first suggested that it might be a good idea for doctors to wash their hands before delivering a baby. The old docs reviled him, for suggesting that gentlemen were ever dirty!
@@kendrikhawk7436 Sounds like ''The People of the Lie'' by M. Scott Peck. Those who point out that a nurse has dirty fingernails are the ones accused of being evil psychopaths for pointing it out, rather than focusing on the problem that it is the nurse who is willingly ignoring basic sanitary protocols.
Wow, what a biased comment. They both attacked each other and blatantly tried to smother the other's opinion...which is fine, it's a debate lol. Just cause Paul said "please" a few times doesn't cover up for all the times he cut off Joel and said his data was garbage. Joel also said "please" several times. You're just a zealot so you can't see these things clearly.
My favorite part about this is that Joel is literally doing all the things that he accuses Paul of doing. Cherrypicking, not looking at all the data, etc.
Cherry picking? It’s called the consensus! The Inuit, on their traditional diet had an average life expectancy into there sixties! Enjoy your meat and the romance of it all but a meat based diet doesn’t produce the oldest populations. Can you have a full and meaningful life eating mainly meat? Of course. At the end of the days it comes down to individual preferences. Covid-19 and many viruses are spread from livestock. Livestock is the most inefficient means of producing food. And there’s not enough wild animals in the world to support the human population.
@@InfiniteQuest86 nope...no mistake here ....Dr Saladino hasn’t shown any worthwhile study....as always he is not interested in evidence based nutrition.....when he continues like that he will lose his medical license like Shawn Baker...he is putting people in danger...
Paul is so rude !! Just because you haven’t seen the study Paul doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.. !! Paul’s defensiveness should tell you everything.. anyone that has truth on their side doesn’t need to be aggressive and defensive.. Dr Fuhrman is correct the body of evidence is overwhelming on this topic.
Fuhrman speaks ONLY about observational studies, zero interventional studies. Where is credibility? He reminds me medieval inquisitor with his appearance and way of thinking.
@@LisaMurphy Observational studies do not prove anything. Interventional studies show causation. They show what directly causes an issue in humans. Just observing something so complex with some many variables is not possible. There is room for too many errors. Research scientists need to control what their test subjects ingest so as not to skew the results. With something as important as health we need to pin point the cause of diesease, disorder, and malnutrition. Google interventional studies, and you will get a good picture of how important they are compared epidemiological studies that only correlate between rises in health markers not what is causing these rises.
@@LisaMurphy observational studies showing correlation not causation. Because observational studies are not randomized, they cannot control for all of the other inevitable, often unmeasurable, exposures or factors that may actually be causing the results. Any “link” between cause and effect in observational studies is more or less speculative .
@@odious5317 Well I googled it and it got too confusing for me with science jargon. So let me ask: would an interventional study on red meat be one where you have a group of people all eating a certain amount of red meat every day over the course of five years, to see how it affects their blood work, weight, and other health factors? So it's like a completely controlled study?
I find it crazy that red meat, something our dna evolved over millennia while we were eating it, would be bad for us. It just doesnt seem like a possible outcome.
Did you know that eating ice cream is strongly correalted with drowning? It is not the ice cream that causes the drowning, though. It is the fact that both occur more in summer, when people are swimming a lot. Trying to reduce ice cream consumption in order to reduce the risk of drowning is about how dumb this vegan expert sounds. I will never trust a scientist trying to manipulate their audience by pretending correlation is anything more than a thing that gives ideas for what to study interventionally and clinically next.
And the murder rate also increases in summer-time. Don't be too surprised if some pro-vegan study or other starts telling us that dairy induces psychopathy.
Is this Dr. Furhman a vegan? Well that discredits him, although that's not to say that I'm a fan of the keto diet. I think the Keto diet is ok for helping dangerously obese people lose weight but is not healthy long term. The people in this world who live the longest eat a balance of veggies and meats.
Years ago, I did the Dr Christopher’s school of natural healing master herbalist program… Joel’s book, eat to live was part of the curriculum…. I honestly tried his diet strictly during this school… I lost some weight, but also had tremendous digestive issues and lost a lot of strength ( I was a young active lifter at the time so I was obvious) … this debate warmed my heart all these years later. #VeggiesAreWhatMyFoodEats 😁
You had tremendous digestive issues bc your body lacked the "machinery", in the form of gut biodiversity, to digest the fiber so it was going right through you. Do you eat fermented products regularly? When was the last time you nuked your gut with antibiotics? This is what Dr.F needs to be clearer on - you can't just switch to Nutritarian and expect immediate changes. You have to ramp up. He does say in some of his videos to ramp up beans from 1 tablespoon to 1 cup over a few months. But this also applies to everything else. 90% of people aren't going to have the bacteria to process primarily G-BOMBS in the diet when eating meat and processed foods and using heavy antibiotics for decades. Nutritarian diet saves lives but it has to be implemented correctly in accordance to each person's current microbiome. One cannot simply process a large amount of different plant fibers without the bacteria. It will be gi nightmare for the patient...
The above argument re: ramping up and assuming no gut bacteria is bunk. I take no antibiotics nor any meds whatsoever and eat plenty of fermented vegetables and yet my gut cannot handle raw vegetables and fruit, so far, hoping to change the fruit part by healing my gut. Taking supplemental enzymes is not an answer, didn’t help. Currently trying carnivore w some cooked and fermented vegs, low carb. Doing Jack Kruse’s Leptin Reset protocol and just taking HCL because of low stomach acid. Everything is peachy. Love it. Sunlight exposure and circadian rhythm living are key.
@adrielbadillo1942 Carnivore is a definitely a good temporary elimination diet for a hard reset for allergies and crappy gut (e.g. candida, H.P). People see good results b/c they're not spiking insulin via processed foods, not eating high gi foods, not ingesting artifical chemicals/coloring/preservatives from processed foods, etc. But its lack of prebiotic fiber is going to rob you of gut biodiversity which does incredible things for our health (look up butyric acid and other short chain fatty acids), so it should just be a short term diet. The goal everyone should have is gut biodiversity and that can also include meats in limited fashion. However, meats spike igf-1 levels which feeds cancers, and meats cause inflammation. It shoudl be noted that igf-1 can be beneficial for certain cohorts like the elderly since it assists with nutrient absorption. If you aren't old, then eating meat every single day in large quantities is asking for trouble at the hormonal level imo. I eat it about twice a week and that's enough for my body, and I also do extended fasts a few times a year which has been shown to kill up to 80% of types of cancers. So if a patient wanted to eat a crapton of meat, it could work IF the person is willing to do extended fasts. If they're not, then they are immensely increasing their cancer risk via igf-1. And if they're eating a ton of meats AND sugar (i.e. spiking glucose), it's a wrap because those are the two primary things that cancer needs. All in all, I limit meats but won't completely cut them out because I'm very active. And when I eat them, I eat a huge salad first to somewhat neutralize inflammation, according to studies. In summary, meat is nice for active athletes and carnivore is good for elimination, but it's not going optimize the gut which is optimizing our health.
@@naughtyorgneiss*all humans* lack the machinery to digest fibre. Humans don't digest fibre in any meaningful amount. you'd need like 2kg of dry refined fibre to make up your daily calories. Fiber is NOT good for humans we lost than ability when we decended from chimpanzees. This amount of fibre would also kill you from gastrointestinal pressure.... So you poop it out I hvae not yet seen proof that humans need any gut bacteria to digest approriat food. We have the enzyme and acidic/alkaline chemistry to do without. Starch, animal protein, fat. All easy to digest without bacteria. Do you have anything to say otherwise?
You’re both right. You need both animal products and some plants and avoid processed foods and seed oils and junk. Admittedly there are out lyres. My dad is 80 and a smoker. But I remember him always eating steaks 🥩 and salad 🥗 also. He likes his carbs too. SO be a study of one and see what makes you feel better.
Thank you for doing this. I respect you both. I mostly eat meat, my parents raised us that way but I enjoy veggies at times. I’ve never ever been sick. Thank you for doing more of these in the future. By the way, Dr. Furman does use high doses of fish oil when treating very sick people as I heard it on a podcast with him and Chef AJ. So that’s an animal-based product, LOL
He accuses Dr. Paul of having a religious, preference informed belief system and then demonstrates that he is the one operating from a religious belief system. The hallmarks of which are the personal attacks. He gets personal right away and throughout.
I followed the Nutritarian diet for over two years. At first I felt good but as time went on, I lost too much weight, began to experience oxalate symptoms mainly vertigo. Beans, nuts, and many of the foods Dr Furhman recommends are high in oxalates.. they were harming me. So glad I'm now eating a meat based diet. I feel like I got my health back. Vertigo completely gone. Thank you Paul for this debate. He cant give you the data because it doesn't exist.
Game, Set, Match. Saladino you schooled him.. this is not a religion. This is science as humans understand it. Why would we do something if it was going to kill us? We are all looking for the truth and following the science. As a Anesthesia clinician and PhD it's hard to watch an MD use an epidemiological and associational studies to make his point. The fact he did not come prepared with real studies is disheartening. We all have bias. Like I said before living healthy trumps my Bias!!!! I try really hard to watch both sides. However, the people on the carnivore or keto side present much more functional evidence. I don't want To get political. but, the fact that he fund raised for PBS tells you exactly what you need to know. You can't say that politics don't get in the way of plant-based diet. you really can't say that for the other side of the of the aisle. because, most of them are omnivores! Or on SAD diet. I believe Dr. Paul comes at it from a seeking knowledge standpoint. You destroyed him in this debate!
There a many ex-vegans. I'm one of them. The diet was a disaster and left me exhausted,a nervous wreck,constantly sick,depressed,with high triglycerides (302) and low HDL (24). I hope that you consider becoming an ex-vegan too.
@@billrener4897 I am an ex-vegan, I was being sarcastic. Veganism caused me all types of problems, anemia and joint pain amongst others (like low cholesterol, vit D deficiency... the list goes on)
I keep hearing about ex-vegans (people who actually follow the vegan diets through and through) who changed due to health. Is there such a thing as ex-carnivore/ketovore who went purely plants due to health?
Man.. this is like the left and the right arguing on anything lol. One side is logical, open minded, brings facts to the table, is willing to admit defeat when wrong, while the other side is based on feelings, assumptions, interrupts (even prevents) the other from talking, accuses but can't argue with facts... soooo annoying.
Paul knocked him out of the park. China study, Ornish, Esselstyn and Seventh Day Adventist studies, smh. Brown vs white is only a few minutes difference for insulin spikes. Any diet requiring supplements to get essential nutrients is the wrong diet. For over 300,000 years we’ve been consuming animal products, confirmed also by isotopes N14 and 15.
"Increased lean red meat intake does not elevate markers of oxidative stress and inflammation in humans" - funded by "a Red Meat and Human Nutrition grant provided by Meat and Livestock Australia Limited." Follow the money, people.
I wonder is paul is working for the mat industry The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life . It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human top survive and flourish on a vegan diet. The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering . Here are some more FACTS 1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year 2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef 3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together 4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase 5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing . 6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre 7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html 8) 1 billion people are already going hungry and can not get clean water .5000 die every year from drinking dirty water 9) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html 10) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down. 11) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all 12) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . The only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat 13) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up . Even if meat eating is slightly better for the health of any isolated individual it is still a proven fact that humans can live a long healthy life on vegan diet and that a vegan diet is much less harmful to the environment .Unless we do Billions will starve due to droughts an famines.
"Plant-based" is supported by every billionaire, the mainstream media, Hollywood, the UN, the WHO, Big Agriculture (Bayer-Monsanto, Con Agra, sugar and grain industries, etc.), the medical industrial complex, governments throughout the Western world, and so on and so forth. You're not a rebel.
@@mushshrap6471 Having eyes and understanding what "insulin response" is, not to mention being aware of the 15 essential nutrients which no pesticide-soaked plants can provide.
Their colon cancer rates also increased as the meat intake did. Also the increased lifespan could be due to better access to health care, good social circles and an improved economy. Richer populations tend to live longer because of access to healthcare and affordable medicine.
@@ynghuch Let's just discard the increase in consumption of seed oils, processed food and sugars. Let's blame the meat over things that do not occur in nature. Makes sense lol.
@@ynghuch I fully agree with you. We also have to consider the financial interests of big pharma and rich people like Bill Gates who has shares in them. If everyone was healthy pharma won't make money so they have created this lie to keep us sick to make money. I believe the same with vaccines and drugs. No studies show they are safe, we don't know the ingredients and we can't take action against them if they cause us harm. If we put good things in our bodies we will get good out of it. We have an immune system for a reason we don't need man-made substances that our bodies are not designed to deal with.
@@bryce74 I’m not strictly anti-medicine myself, but I live in the UK. We managed to eliminate salmonella here by vaccinating chickens. I would be skeptical of it in the US though, especially the FDA. The shit the get away with and allow in America is unreal.
All I know is that every time I would go plant based, My eczema would flare up and I would start having really bad gut issues. Had to stop plant based thought I was dying!
Paul, you absolutely destroyed Joel, which he asked for whenever he suggested you should be jailed for expressing your well researched opinion on the optimal human diet.
The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life . It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human top survive and flourish on a vegan diet. The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering . Here are some more FACTS 1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year 2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef 3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together 4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase 5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing . 6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre 7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html 8) 1 billion people are already going hungry and can not get clean water .5000 die every year from drinking dirty water 9) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html 10) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down. 11) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all 12) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . The only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat 13) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up . Even if meat eating is slightly better for the health of any isolated individual it is still a proven fact that humans can live a long healthy life on vegan diet and that a vegan diet is much less harmful to the environment .Unless we do Billions will starve due to droughts an famines.
I have the utmost respect for Dr. Saladino, but I think this debate could have been more civil, it got real heated, not sure if it was in fact a "friendly debate" lol. It felt like Joel got bullied later on in the debate, probably because he was condescending to Paul at first. Joel was ultimately outclassed by Paul who was much better prepared. Also, I find it hilarious that the plant base doctor's last name is pronounced "Fur-man" like some sort of hunter, and the animal based doctor's last name has Salad in it. The fact that Joel made some derogatory remarks about Paul (saying he should be in jail) prior to this debate could have soured things. I will say that Joel Fuhrman does seem like one of the more rational vegans, he admitted the potential for nutrient deficiencies on the vegan diet, the necessity of supplementation, avoidance of refined carbs and sugars, and how plant based people may benefit from at least small amounts of animal foods. They had more in common than they may have initially realized, and many plant based advocates would not have admitted what Dr. Fuhrman did. I wish they covered more things in detail, as opposed to arguing about the validity of the studies behind their claims, interrupting each other, and calling each others sources garbage, etc. which should have been put on the back burner after a while of stagnant debate. I wish they would have covered how subtle, easily overlooked factors such as improper methionine/glycine balance, and the consumption of high linoleic acid meats from soy/corn fed animals could impact outcomes on long term studies on meat consumption, in addition to the hazards of plant defense chemicals, antinutrients, and the ethics of meat consumption, going into detail about regenerative agriculture, alternatives to factory farming, nutrient density in pastured vs. conventional, whether going vegan is realistic for the majority of people, etc. There were so many productive topics that could have been explored further. I think that both sides should have considered the other more closely. Joel was claiming that the long term epidemiologic data is the gold standard, and he was unwilling to consider contradictory information, making excuses or calling the studies that Paul showed garbage, and Paul was claiming epidemiologic data on nutritional science is sub par due to healthy and unhealthy user bias, and that interventional data contradicts it, calling into question it's validity; the problem here is that there is no long term interventional data on a carnivore diet, so how can you completely disregard concerns ? They are both right in a way. There are no long term studies on the carnivore diet, so you cant say with absolute certainty that you wont have a reduced lifespan. While the majority of humans ate a meat centric diet throughout our evolution, and many modern indigenous populations are still eating a meat centric diet with good health, this does not necessarily mean that a meat centric diet is going to result in the best possible lifespan. You don't need to live to 90-100+ years old to carry on your genes. With that being said, the claim that a diet devoid of the food that we are biologically adapted to consume is the optimal diet for human health is a tough sell. Is this supposed reduction in lifespan seen in other omnivores, or carnivores ? What intrinsic properties could meat possibly have in order to cause these effects ? If meat actually does have properties that can reduce the human lifespan, is it even the meat itself, or how it is processed and prepared, considering the fact that our bodies have adapted to it's consumption ? If meat does have properties that reduce lifespan, can they be mitigated against whilst retaining the nutritional benefits of meat consumption ? What about the documented health benefits of high fish consumption, such as increased lifespan and reduced cardiovascular, cancer, Alzheimer's, and liver disease mortality risk ? There needs to be a long term study on modern people, living with modern convivence, hygiene, and medicine, free from the pressure of environmental hazards consuming a "nose to tail" animal based diet, like the kind Dr. Saladino recommends. At the moment, it is not really possible to say with certainty whether or not eating meat will reduce lifespan, not eating any meat probably will if you don't have an expertly planned and adequately supplemented vegan diet. IMHO the safest option is to just eat a balanced diet without processed foods, focusing on a variety of lower toxicity plant foods, and high quality pasture raised/grass fed/free range meats, and eliminating refined vegetable and seed oils. Most health experts, regardless of their dietary preference would at the very least reluctantly agree with this. I think that nutrition researches and doctors should be asking these questions, not attempting to confirm their own biases and proselytize for them, screwing all of us in the process. I also think that Dr. Saladino's voice, while controversial, is one that needs to be heard, and the fact that he welcomes people like this on his podcasts instead of just hiding in an echo chamber is very respectable.
Thankyou for your well thought out comment. Very well put. I need to look into that glycine balance you mentioned! I just started taking glycine isolate to help with sleep and it has helped alot, plus seems to ease my digestion too in the morning
This discussion was actually pretty fascinating, especially after reading The Dieticians Dilemma by Michelle Hurn. Dr. Fuhrman brought up Seventh Day Adventists repeatedly. They play a not insignificant role in nutrition research and policy in America.
1) There are plenty of interventive studies showing that meat eaters with chronic diseases fully recover when whey adopt a vegan diet . See the Gerson institutes ‘DVD “ FOOD MATTERS “ documentary (netflix or your local library ) 2) The reason why there are no interventive studies showing that a healthy vegan will develop disease if the eat a meat diet is because a) the vegans are unwilling to participate b) yiu can not have an interventive study unless there is a disease condition . A vegan on a whole food diet (no refined foods ) does not any disease 3) Paul said we need meat for our brain : th-cam.com/video/kVlSX_EF8wE/w-d-xo.html Why HISTORY's Greatest Minds Didn't EAT MEAT Socraties , Leonardo DaVinci , Albert Einstein , Nikolai Telsa , Buddha , Rosa Parks, Bengamin Franklin , Sir Issaac Newton ,Thomas Edison , Susan B Anthony , Gandhi, (note: I interject here that DHA is lost in sex .It is in semen . Our brain needs DHA to be healthy so don’t over do the sex ) 4) Paul said we need meat for our bodies . Meat was out lawed in Japan from 675-1875 AD. During that time a legendary vegan warrior , THE SAMURAI, gained prominence . Today we have the extremely fats , strong , tough Shaolin Monks who are all pure vegan . I have ben vegan 40 years .In 1982 I became lacto vegan .In 1995 I became pure vegan. At that time I was almost 35 and could barely run my daily 4 miles without wanting to walk . In 1995 I quit the milk an cottage cheese and got my protein from collards , kale , turnip greens , cauliflower and bok choy and stopped eating bulgar and wheat flakes and started sprouting whole grain and soon I could run 10 miles with no fatigue .Today at age 62 I still run 7 miles 4-5 times a week and work 60 hours a week on my small farm( see my youtube videos . 5) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html 6) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down. 7) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all 8) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . the only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat 9) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up . 10) I posted these in the main section but Paul deleted them….Don’t we need a heathy environment to be healthy ?
@@dfv671 Good job trying to be a smart aleck. You are so witty. He states which guy, the guy that states that the majority of people that believe the same thing is right. Its the old man if you haven't figured that out. This world is a lost cause.
howd you get even that wrong? that is not his logic. its the fact that majority of the well done studies actually show what he says. so yes majority of people should agree.
I never hold credence to people who belittle when a person is feeling better, saying those who disagree with them should be in jail, or assume that certain studies exist that support their position.
I guess Dr Saladino, claiming that epidemiological studies being trash, is not aware of dose response relationships (which was how scientist could show cigarettes' negative health consequences) and how Ansel Keys work has been studied and reproduced so many times. Just look at Finland's North Karelia project that transformed their healthcare. Not sure if his side hustle is intervening with his assumingly good intentions but it's really unfortunate that he is so misinformed. They should definitely increase how much MDs are trained about nutrition.
I fail to see how Dr. Fuhrman seemed more emotionally charged than Dr. Saladino. If anything, Paul seemed the more aggravated of the two at times. That may be my perspective and I understand how it could go either way. This leads me to believe that this form of debate approaches on worthless. These need to be done in person, with a moderator, and with the ground work laid before hand. Paul continued to say, 'where is the study' - Was coming armed with studies part of the agreement? It sounded like Joel was on vacation and maybe didn't know what the rules of engagement ought to be. Hell if I know, be if we want conversations like these to be as informative and valuable as possible, then the field needs to be prepared beforehand. Throwing out the entirety or the majority of Epidemiology is ridiculous. Nutritional studies do not lend well to RCTs, particularly long-term. They should still be done, but they are never going to make up the body of evidence. Epidemiologists have known this for decades and have worked continuously to make their field of study more accurate. Why does Paul continue to admonish epidemiology and then pull studies from there to support his point? That made no sense to me. I am not vegan or vegetarian, but it is weird to read the comments riding Paul's ass. I tried to watch this objectively as possible, and obviously still have my biases, but I did not see how he was any more convincing than Joel
Exactly. The rest of this comment section reads like Dr Saladino fan club which makes sense since it's his channel but I wish people were more intellectually neutral. Yes Dr Furman started with a slightly pretentious opening but Paul was more aggressive and just felt like someone who was eager to slam his opponet. Perhaps Joel's twitter comment set a tone. Both sides talked too long before letting the other respond. Make a point then let the other discuss their counterpoint, don't talk for 5 minutes with 50 points
@@Will.27 Agreed. I take information from many sources and try to stay as neutral as possible. I don't always do a good job and I end up liking certain people and their viewpoints, but no one person is right. It's ludicrous to think anyone has 'the truth'. Like you brought up, I don't think this is the best format to debate and points you stated would make for a more productive stage. Paul stated he wants to do more of these - fine, but it seems more entertainment than getting closer the 'the truth'
The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life . It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human to survive and flourish on a vegan diet. The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering . Here are some more FACTS 1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year 2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef 3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together 4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase 5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing . 6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre 7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html 8) 1 billion people are already going hungry and can not get clean water .5000 die every year from drinking dirty water 9) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html 10) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down. 11) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all 12) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . The only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat 13) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up . Even if meat eating is slightly better for the health of any isolated individual it is still a proven fact that humans can live a long healthy life on vegan diet and that a vegan diet is much less harmful to the environment .Unless we do Billions will starve due to droughts and famines.
Big fans of both fellas. CarnivoreMD now eats lots of plants in his daily diet, and Fuhrman says to eat some meat. Both guys are talking about a whole food diet woth some of the makeup changed and both versions of the whole food diet take place in the context of an active lifestyle. Lots of overlap is what i see.
I started with a open mind towards Juel Furhman , but instantly he used SAD diets with oils and sugar as a starting point and variabel of how much percent meat thats included, If you start with flawed data , you get flawed results. And to be a writer of several books on his topic , its clear he just avoided Dr Saladino's question and could not answer much on top of his head. I think he made his books as copies of other vegan writers . The debate stated by Saladino that the objective is better health is left quickly , it clearly moving to how , not result. just a long tirade of call to autorites
You look much much more healthier than the vegan guy, with that said I do understand the age difference however you can plainly see the health difference.
I know it's hard to listen to someone that's talking about things you strongly oppose without getting excited to counter, but I must say that Joel, at times, was right to criticize you for interrupting him.
Fuhrman may be a former world-class figure skater. And is now a vegan. But it is highly unlikely he was a vegan in his younger years when he was developing his body while training and competing. Show me the health outcomes and epigenetic results of veganism over multiple generations. One suspects it might be like Pottenger's cats and that, after enough generations, vegans would become so unhealthy they'd no longer be able to reproduce. So, maybe it's a problem that could solve itself. If vegans only had children with other vegans, the diet would go extinct before long. But that isn't what we see because most vegans grew up eating meat and inherited the healthy epigenetics of previous generations eating meat.
He wasn't vegan when he was younger. He went vegan after he had an injury that wouldn't heal and he went to some clinic where he used fasting, juices and a vegan diet to heal. So he grew up eating meat.
@@lisaellious8260 - That makes sense. I see veganism as possibly helpful for some people in healing, similar to fasting. As both restrict calories, they potentially induce ketosis and autophagy. That can be a good thing over short periods, but one wouldn't want to do continuous veganism any more than one would want to do continuous fasting. At some point, one needs to add back in nutrient-dense animal foods for general health or else likely suffer nutrient deficiencies and health decline.
@@lisaellious8260 - I never tried veganism. But when I was younger, I followed a vegetarian diet for a year, although with plenty of eggs and dairy. I didn't have any particular positive or negative results, at least as compared to the standard American diet I was on previously. Then again, my vegetarian diet wasn't as healthy as it could've been since it still included lots of high-carb processed foods. Anyway, I'm glad I never went the vegan route. That definitely would've worsened the severe depression I struggled with for decades before going low-carb and nutrient-dense.
Look at the family of John Robbins, vegan author of Diet for a New America. He grew up a healthy meat- and ice cream-eater and now looks a lot like Furman. His son was raised vegan and looked rather sickly, and the grandsons have serious health issues.
The Maasai and their Diet The Maasai are a pastoralist tribe living in Kenya and Northern Tanzania. Their traditional diet consists almost entirely of milk, meat, and blood. Two thirds of their calories come from fat, and they consume 600 - 2000 mg of cholesterol a day. To put that number in perspective, the American Heart Association recommends consuming under 300 mg of cholesterol a day. In spite of a high fat, high cholesterol diet, the Maasai have low rates of diseases typically associated with such diets. They tend to have low blood pressure, their overall cholesterol levels are low, they have low incidences of cholesterol gallstones, as well as low rates of coronary artery diseases such as atherosclerosis.
I partially agree with this statement assuming it's true but also what about the factor of them running and walking everywhere . Perhaps on a carni diet we may also need to be also very active also perhaps.?
It’s because the AHA wants people dumbed down...ANY mainstream medical advise is ALL part of the Big Pharma scam! That IS how they make their money!! Vaccines are “safe and effective” right??
@@lucam2942 tubers not rly. fruit is eaten by African tribes in general, but how much of the diet it makes up is very low though not insignificant. Barring accident (animal attack and the like) much higher life expectancy than the US.
Well they agreed that seed oils are bad. So did Dr. Gundry. Let’s start with that consensus and work together to eliminate them.
Yes he agreed on the seed oils and suggested two tablespoons of sesame oil a day directly after 😂
@@SevGW I don't get what is so great about sesame oil?
@@chrisbrown2211 Tastes 💣 to me on my Korean short ribs
@@SevGW just my opinion but I think there is different levels of danger in regards to seed oils, seed oil straight out of a bottle might be better then seed oil heated and mix with sugar or hfcs
@@eddyyammine9136 But think about how it went from the seed to the bottle! Although, I do think humans have eaten most anything that they could find in Nature which didn't kill them , especially after the mange to control fire!
98th podcast in a row where the guy who avoids animal protein looks like he couldn't do a push up.
He looks like he has sarcopenia and hasn’t look well for years.
@@engc4953 he didn't look well when he was a figure skater.
😂
And this is a former pro athlete who is active for hours every day.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Incredibly disrespectful host. He spouted the same nonsense over and over, while the guest showed a much greater medical understanding. Then the host concludes his video essentially telling his audience he won the debate just after the guest leaves the call. Not a friendly debate. He just knows Joel Fuhrman has a much greater following, and having him on his podcast will help him peddle his junk... The first 10 minutes was just a bunch of sponsorships... Very disappointed.
“ the non-creative mind can spot wrong answers but it takes a creative mind to spot wrong questions.” Dr Jack Kruse
Great quote!
Wow, heck of a quote. I’ve had this thought for years but haven’t been able to clearly articulate it.
That brilliant quote perfectly captures what is wrong with much of nutritional research. As one example, many researchers for decades asked the question what foods raise cholesterol? The more prudent question to have asked would have been is cholesterol the primary cause of heart disease? Just by changing that line of questioning we would have avoided the multi-billion dollar scam that is the statin drug industry.
@@alphacause you misunderstood it mate, asking "is cholesterol the primary cause of heart disease?" this is wrong question to ask, because your genes determine cholesterol biosynthesis, so why would your body want to kill you.
what they should be asking, is what things are causing the derangements in our bodies, answering those things will illuminate a deeper understanding of how our bodies interact with food and our physical environment.
💯
23 minutes in and it doesn't seem very friendly so far. He pretty much attacks you and tells you you're terribly wrong about everything
Who is "he"? They're on opposite ends of a spectrum - it would be impossible for them to be friendly.
@@FrostyInfern0 He = Fuhrman.
@@FrostyInfern0 not true. I had a vegan over for dinner last night. We made him a vegan meal. I had steak and eggs
Yeah, I mean the guy opens up immediately bringing up his 7 New York Times best sellers. Call me a simple man but that’s an immediate red flag for me.
@@solidsnake9924 all rhetoric, no data.
I was diagnosed with PCOS, Hashimoto's disease, anxiety and panic attacks. My body and mind was in pain everyday of my life…I went vegan to tried and fix these health issues, I was doing Lou Corona’s juicing recipes and it seem like I keep getting worse and worse and not loosing weight either. Finally I came across Sally Norton’s book “Toxic Superfoods” and that changed everything for me. I started carnivore in mid August and I am down 15 pounds, I’m surprised at how much energy I have, I am coping very well with stress which means no anxiety and panic attacks, my glucose levels on my CGM always between 70-81, also I had very stiff joints and that’s also gone. In a very short period of time I am seeing big changes on the carnivore diet that I never saw while just eating vegetables and juicing for 2 years.
Amazing benefits happy to hear stories like this
Sam i have much less anxiety when I eat more animal based food.
Everyone is similar but different,we are still learning.
i did carnivore and keto and i found after 1-2 years that the fat was quietly clogging my receptors leading to a worsening of diabetes t2. also it takes about that long for many people to grow tired of eating only anaimals. at some point your body may give you hints. I would test your insulin and blood sugar after a year. you will feel great for the first 6 months and lose weight and be convinced you found heaven like i did but give it time. and dont allow yourself to go into t2 which is hyper insulinemia and resistance. Things hard to see until it is too late. they say people have IR ten years before they are diagnosed. this is a friendly warning to avoid diabetes at all costs. i am not against meat but the minute you stop you will see why it has problems of it own.
Don't hold your breath on that apology, Paul. He's an ideologue. His religion won't allow it
Just wondering, if they did an actual long term study showing in 50,000 people that meat actually does lower your lifespan and even dr Paul salidino agreed it’s a legitimate study, would you really stop eating meat?
@@theperson3693 just because Paul Saladino says a study is good or not doesnt make it so. Its the fact that his comments about epidemiology are, for the most part, well reflected in basic statistics, and established scientific teaching (for example: correlation can not prove causation), as well as basic logic and epistemology, that the arguments hold weight. Its not up to some authority to say if a study is valid or not, its up to the actual methodology and maths, which is available for anyone to review, if they know how to do it.
There's also the problem that its impossible to properly control for large scale, long term studies like that. We've seen it again and again when things remotely similar are attempted. People misreport their lifestyles, certain factors aren't controlled for, etc. Saladino isnt the only one who's shown concern about healthy/unhealthy user bias. Gordon Guyatt, for one, the man accredited with coining the term 'science based medicine', who is a pescatarian, did a large review of the socalled anti-meat research out there and expressed the same thing, and said that none of the epidemiology actually tells us anything. Too many confouding variales and basic holes in the controls.
That being said, I'd say that if, somehow, a twenty year study of high quality meat eaters who dont smoke and who exercise outside a lot, was extremely well controlled the whole time, etc etc, was done, and the results were clear, without controlling for variables, and looking at absolute risk vs relative, and all that, and the results showed a clear statistical leaning towards the meat being bad, and someone read it for themselves and dismissed it outright, they'd be an idiot. To say that they should stop eating meat, though - no one study can set a precedent. Repeatability is essential in science. But yes, such a study - which does not exist - would be necessary to pay attention to.
@@theperson3693 I am shocked that this Saladin fellow is so high strung and kooky acting in his passion, he needs to calm down. He must be full of adrenaline or maybe he's sick. I mean I eat meat but heck I don't desire to eat it at every single meal. I eat it with vegetables or I'll skip it to have beens with rice or maybe just fruit for lunch. What an emotional desperate dude to behave like this.
@@blacksmithie I believe it, it must be the cortisol. I thought it was fear hormones, adrenaline from the traumatized animals he's been eating causing him to be jittery and nervous.
@Rent Free so be it.
This guy looks 10 years older than he actually is where as Paul looks 10 years younger than he actually is. Discussion over.
And how old Paul is?
@@nicola784 87
@@nicola784 69
yes brooks and he died his hair to look younger
Absolutely! Why is he so yellow...??
Legend has it Paul is still waiting for Joel to send him those studies.
The point is there are no studies so carnivore is still a social experiment. The studies are yet to come. Its only recent. There are studies for plant based
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Lots of bold claims from Dr Joel but zero evidences to support.
Pure rhetoric
I bet if you bet joel vs saladino to help somebody with cancer Joel would reverse it while saladino would have someone in the hospital.
Most carnivores have tried the vegan diet first, it doesn’t happen the other way around.
Haha good point a lot less carnivores going to vegan cuz when the found something that works they stick to it.
There are plenty of low-carb, keto, high-meat diet folks converting to plant-based dieting.
You think most people are born vegan??? 😂😂😂 fucking hell
@@only_6486 not in my tribe haha, but we see each day new ex vegan coming to us haha.
@@only_6486 wrong
Gotta give props to Doc Fuhrman for maintaining his composure (as did Paul). Takes tremendous courage to come on Paul’s podcast and be challenged in such a direct way! To me this was more of a debate between whether or not epidemiological/observational studies can be trusted. Nonetheless, very thoughtful discussion!
mostly because he is a vegetarian right, they can glue themselves to paintings occasionally haha. But in seriousness, i thought both gave it as good as they got it with Paul being more cordial prior and post debate (ie. talking about snowboarding or whatever...)
aren't epidemiological and observational studies the same
Facts
@@arno7303 one could say the same about those recommending a carnivore diet, that isn’t a strictly vegan or vegetarian phenomenon. Paul was very glued to the idea that long term observational studies hold no merit in determining long term health outcomes.
This was really a debate on what type of study nutrition advice should be based on more than anything.
I kinda felt bad for Dr. Fuhrman, he got completely destroyed in this debate
You handled that conversation very respectfully Paul 👍
Saladino is amazing in keeping he cool and facts
@@zaluq Its because hes an alpha male who eats meat
@@brendonbalow6488 lol, Hail the Beef!!!
For sure!
Always a gentleman Paul- Well done!
Reminded me of the Stork scene in The Karate Kid!
Wow, Dr. Fuhrman used some fighting words! We await him sending studies to you, Dr. Saladino.
Yes. I’d love to see joel back on w studies for a round 2 albeit a little more “discussing the science” than taking shots. If not at least go thru the studies he sends assuming that fuhrmie follows thru.
He lost me at “supported by the WHO and backed by the NIH.”
That’s really all I needed to hear.
Been on Saladino’s diet for a couple months - feel great.
Went vegan and stopped at six months, felt like a breeze would knock me over.
My only qualm, and something I’ll continue to feel out, is eating something that feels emotions. The journey never ends I guess.
Just find what works for you.
what did you eat when you were vegan so many people eat complete shit when they go vegan and they dont supplement b12 iodine and omega 3 you have to add your food into cronometer to make sure you meat requirements espeically for choline as a vegan its not easy to do thats why most people fail a vegan diet i dont blame you ive thought of going back to eating meat a few times from how challenging it can be sometimes, also gluten intolrance and celiac disease is becoming ever more common and literally most prepackaged foods will make you sick if you have that issue like me i cant even eat any grains because they make me sick theyre disgusting
@@RealJonzuk Vegans always cheat with junk because it's impossible to be satiated by the beans and rice. You add seed oils, inflammatory wheat toast, or 'gluten free' toast made out of inflammatory corn. Oats, which make you ravenous after an hour. It's the lack of fat and protein that fuels cravings and it's impossible to stay clean on WFPB. Ask me how I know.
If you have gut issues on a vegan diet you're basically done for. All grains are toxic, legumes are both high in FODMAP and histamine and lectins if you don't pressure cook. What else is left lol? You think eating onions and garlic is good for an inflamed gut?
Lol, you need lots of supplements, Go on a meat based diet and no longer need supplements. That says everything you need to know.
@@Mantis858585 I've now come to the conclusion that no one treats other animal better than humans. have you seen what wild dogs do to their prey? in fact, what all animals do to their prey.
I and every other former vegan now ketovore are fricking loving watching Fuhrman getting destroyed.
Yep he's harmed so many people
You sound personally invested....
....such hate.smh
@@happyhealthylife4ever vegan dr ONLY refered to epidemiology studies and EVEN only to american/west studies. Counting in the rest of the world same bullshit nonfactual studies even proved and contradicted his bullshit view.
I guess your iq is so low after eating junk that you have problem understanding.
Evolution - the best long term study for meat consumption, aim the Heavy Gustav, fire....... kaaaaaaaabooooooooom, destroyed :)
@@happyhealthylife4ever Sooooo Did Furman ever come up with the interventional studies he swore existed? I hear he didnt/couldnt...
Lol too bad so much time was wasted arguing about epidimiological studies.. i want to hear a debate about anti-nutrients
The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life .
It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan
Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan
It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human top survive and flourish on a vegan diet.
The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual
The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering .
Here are some more FACTS
1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year
2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef
3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together
4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase
5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing .
6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre
7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html
Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html
8) 1 billion people are already going hungry and can not get clean water .5000 die every year from drinking dirty water
9) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html
10) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down.
11) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all
12) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . The only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat
13) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up .
Even if meat eating is slightly better for the health of any isolated individual it is still a proven fact that humans can live a long healthy life on vegan diet and that a vegan diet is much less harmful to the environment .Unless we do Billions will starve due to droughts an famines.
@@rbbiefahFuck me. You need to actually go through each point and do some solid research as a lot of it is totally ridiculous. Wherever you found that was not a good source of information.
The unhealthy vs healthy user was one of the best takes I’ve ever heard. Since mainstream advocated against red meat, people who ate red meat were usually the kind of people to live an unhealthy lifestyle, while people who ate plant based were more likely to live a healthy lifestyle with exercise etc. but that doesn’t mean red meat is bad/plant based is good. Crazy smart guy. Awesome logic
At least you could respond to my comment that there are 1000s of interventional studies though the Gerson Institute who did a documentary: "Food Matters " wherein they show 1000s of cases of TERMINAL INOPERABLE stage 4 cancer patients who left a meat diet and adopted the Gerson diet and therapy and who recovered and lived another 20 -30 years. How do you discredit that ?
The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life .
It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan
Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan
It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human top survive and flourish on a vegan diet.
The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual
The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering .
Here are some more FACTS
1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year
2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef
3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together
4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase
5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing .
6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre
7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html
Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html
"Crazy smart guy. Awesome logic"
Wait. I've been using that logic on anti-vegans for 10 years, when they use logical fallacies (which they usually do).
It's called correlation, and you don't have to be smart to show it. You just have to listen to other peoples' podcasts and mimic their talking points.
@@rbbiefah I’m not gonna sit here and get into a debate with you but I’d love to know how anyone can argue that regenerative farming is worse for the environment than monocrop agriculture
@@devinshaw3316 DEBUNKING VIDEOS
Regenerative Grazing Debunked by science
th-cam.com/video/OSAz-A7S8ow/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/rKjQfn-HR6g/w-d-xo.html&lc=Ugz2SXDPrkxVgTFq7aF4AaABAg.9Yb-cYLGjkV9Ye6wvV5jff
also note that almost all monoculture farming is done for either cow feed or biofuel not for human food >if we stopped feeding and eating animals but ate the plants 9/10 of the land used in agriculture could go back to carbon capturing oxygen producing water pumping forests
@rbbiefah be careful while speaking, a tooth might fall out. You frail vegan. Flourishing on a vegan diet hahaha. You're simply delirious due to malnutrition.
Listening to this eating a grass fed ribeye.
I as well 🤣
Yummy
idiot
As an MD myself, his attempted explanation of “different types of strokes” is so nonsensical and unbelievably embarrassingly incoherent that I almost had a stroke myself when I heard it. 🤷🏼♂️
Same lol. I'm just a lowly radiologist though.
@@Re3iRtH I’m just a lowly pathologist who actually understands the process of atherogenesis, unlike this embarrassing doofus.
@@Richard.Atkinson It's fascinating to me. I believe it was Peter Attia who had a 6 part primer on it on his website. My own experimentation showed that I can reliably move my LDL and HDL up or down by varying my bodyweight and exercise. Whether I ate all vegan or 10 eggs a day. Didn't make a difference. And CRP was always < 0.3 since I'm a thin and muscular guy. This guy believes that "dietary cholesterol and saturated fat clogs your arteries y0"
@@Re3iRtH yes, the argument of pure fantasy and fiction.
Hahaha! That what I was thinking. It made no sense what so ever! What do I know I just put people to sleep...
2 things: 1) I knew it was gonna be good when you said "is that why you've said that I should be locked in prison?" And 2) It would also be interesting to speak with some of the more well known "ethical vegans". Loads of people go vegan for a variety of reasons and unfortunately some of those people don't give a shit about health. On that, also interested in a debate on environmental implications of each diet. Super interesting debate, and thanks for the continued education!!
Have you found anything interesting regarding the environment and ethics in the past few months? :)
Agriculture began only 10 - 12K years ago, which is less than 5% of the 300K years homo sapiens has existed. So for the first 95% of human existence the ONLY foods available for human consumption were animal flesh/organs and WILD forms of fruits and vegetables (which are NOTHING like the fruits and vegetables we have today which were created by humans through selective breeding - Google "teosinte vs. corn" and you'll see what I mean). Humans literally evolved eating animal-based food products, so it seems counter to evolutionary biology that these foods are harmful, while the far more recently available plant-based foods humans invented AFTER the majority of our evolutionary adaptations had already occurred are better for human health - and that's not even to mention the fraudulently labeled "heart healthy" vegetable seed oils which did not exist until humans invented them in the mid-1800s.
The definitive way to settle this is to do a long-term head to head trial of carnivores vs. vegans. I'd be more than happy to sign up for the carnivore group as carnivore has made me more fit at almost age 56 than at anytime since I was in my 20s.
Yessss! Thank you for sharing 🙂
Ancient homo sapians were not eating a meat only diet. Meat was a luxury. Hunting with a spear is an incredibly inefficient means of obtaining calories. Think of the calories burned for the 19/20 failed hunts. They did come across dead animals and eat them for sure. Look at the fecal remains of Paleolithic man for example. They had an average of 90 grams to 120 grams of fiber a day. I eat whole plant based and I don't even get that much a day. The archeological evidence does not support your claims.
You could say the exact same about the animals we eat now. Unless your hunting your own meat, the animals we eat now are genetically different through selective breeding, have higher cholesterol and saturated fat content cause we fatten them up rapidly with GMO corn and soy, are pumped with antibiotics, are put in very unnatural and stressful settings, etc.
At least you could respond to my comment that there are 1000s of interventional studies though the Gerson Institute who did a documentary: "Food Matters " wherein they show 1000s of cases of TERMINAL INOPERABLE stage 4 cancer patients who left a meat diet and adopted the Gerson diet and therapy and who recovered and lived another 20 -30 years. How do you discredit that ?
The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life .
It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan
Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan
It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human top survive and flourish on a vegan diet.
The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual
The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering .
Here are some more FACTS
1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year
2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef
3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together
4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase
5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing .
6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre
7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html
Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html
"fruits and vegetables (which are NOTHING like the fruits and vegetables we have today which were created by humans through selective breeding"
So what. That's an unfortunate reason for ditching your rightful diet of fruit. No one is in bad health because of fruit. I've eaten 100,000 pieces of fruit on my 27 year high-fruit diet, and I'm doing well at age 53.
Come back when you can show 1 study that isn't epidemiology. What a waste of a debate, this was embarrassing!
I couldnt get past the 35 minute mark. All these "friendly debates" do is piss me off having to listen to such non sense from these vegan quacks. They are so sure of themselves. He should have the warning slapped on him. Not paul
Look a fact is a fact .
The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life .
It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan
Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan
It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human top survive and flourish on a vegan diet.
The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual
The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering .
Here are some more FACTS
1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year
2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef
3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together
4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase
5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing .
6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre
7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html
Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html
8) 1 billion people are already going hungry and can not get clean water .5000 die every year from drinking dirty water
9) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html
10) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down.
11) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all
12) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . The only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat
13) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up .
Even if meat eating is slightly better for the health of any isolated individual it is still a proven fact that humans can live a long healthy life on vegan diet and that a vegan diet is much less harmful to the environment .Unless we do Billions will starve due to droughts an famines.
this was pretty ridiculous, i follow you both but whenever you could Paul you pulled really low blows and act like a kid. Constantly saying Furhman was over talking you when you did it to him a hundred times more. hard to watch at times
Absolutely I can’t believe how unfair people are being toward Fuhrman. Paul would say “let me finish” and then constantly interrupt Fuhrman.
Keep killing it Paul, love seeing the relentlessness and watching you really dig to the core of this massive issue. Keep pushing brotha, you're making a massive change 🤙
Sadly even if Paul had long term studies (aside from the obvious ancestral study) this guy would never admit that Paul is right. His legacy would go down in history as wrong and judging by how highly he thinks of himself in his introduction, humility is not something he’s capable of nor will his narrow minded agenda allow him to be more receptive to what Paul has to say and has studied. He lost me with his affiliation to PBS👎🏻
Is why I’m banking on the long term carnivore research meat rx is trying to gain traction with
@@MisterBrianAlexander yes! Me too!
The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life .
It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan
Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan
It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human top survive and flourish on a vegan diet.
The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual
The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering .
Here are some more FACTS
1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year
2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef
3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together
4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase
5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing .
6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre
7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html
Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html
8) 1 billion people are already going hungry and can not get clean water .5000 die every year from drinking dirty water
9) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html
10) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down.
11) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all
12) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . The only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat
13) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up .
Even if meat eating is slightly better for the health of any isolated individual it is still a proven fact that humans can live a long healthy productive life on a vegan diet and that a vegan diet is much less harmful to the environment .Unless we do Billions will starve due to droughts and famines.
The environmentalist wackos who claim cow farts are contributing to climate change are about as ridiculous as the vegan zealots. Evil elites such as Bill Gates buying up our farmlands, (270k acres)......and his goal of being a mass provider of synthetic meat to the populations while he can afford to eat the real thing, makes me realize there's a hidden agenda. The greedy medical association don't want people to be healthy.
@@rbbiefah all of those arguments have to do with the toxic practices of mass production businesses, not the consumption of meat. They would still have to cut down forests to grow the plant foods.
Well done Paul. Shame Joel didn't have evidence to present, despite "writing a book" on the topic. Alarm bells started ringing when he mentioned the Who-backed studies.. Widely known that they are corrupt AF. Personally I mainly eat meat, fish, nuts, eggs and avocado's, but also enjoy salads and some blueberries or a banana after a hard workout. The real villains today are the manufacturers of refined, ultra-processed foods, along with unhealthy, stress-laden lifestyles🙄
How about you go read actual facts and research articles rather than saying “well done Paul”
Paul is not smarter than brilliant scientists around the world. A healthy balanced diet is the absolute king.
@@thelion2087 Ok Mr positive
Joel is 67.
that's a mic drop right there.
Joel looks 90.
@@oh_k8 hard disagree. Everyone tells me I look way younger. Host looks awesome and even better in more recent videos. The guest looks like a ghost. Good luck. Be well.
Summary;
Debate started: Joel “all meat is harmful”
End of debate; Joel “small amount of meat helps”
He never really admitted to that in the end, only that some vegans will have to supplement. And Paul jumped in there and said, "with meat!" And he's totally right. This Joel is fairly sharp, just full of nonsense.
1:13:55 !
Clearly stated. A little bit lol
I do agree with your comments about Joel he is a sharp guy just nonsense haha. I think he still prefers none though you are right and taking the supplements
Make sense when you are really read the studies yourself and don’t follow blindly the advice if some paleo believer
@@happyhealthylife4ever what's that?
I want Dr Furhman to provide me with a healthy plant diet based on what is only seasonally and geographically available to people in the seasonal North. Excluding all shipped foods in the grocery store.
Fuhrman says the benefit of modern civilization is that we're not limited to what is only available in our region. I tend to agree with him there...I don't really buy the regional argument yet. But, I live in Texas so cattle is pretty native anyway haha
@@isaacaguilera3385 the thing is, the foundation of Dr Paul's focus is on what do humans eat where and when. Local and seasonal are fundamental to human health. Otherwise, if there's ever a breakdown in the food supply chain, those following Dr Furhman's example will starve come winter time.
I always use the MULTIPLE THOUSAND YEAR ICE AGES that our species survived as my closing argument with vegan morons regarding carbs and fruits. As in, how did my Northern European ancestors survive for generations without seeing fruits hardly ever during the glacial periods? Answer: they didn't eat fruits and low veg and here we are thousands of years later 😉
@@isaacaguilera3385 that is a benefit.. but that’s a main driver of climate change. Transportation is the #1 category for emissions. So I t’s not sustainable.. we just live in a good time until it won’t be possible anymore because we’ve destroyed the earth.
@@isaacaguilera3385 that is a benefit.. but that’s a main driver of climate change. Transportation is the #1 category for emissions. So I t’s not sustainable.. we just live in a good time until it won’t be possible anymore because we’ve destroyed the earth.
I DO love it that you guys are pushing back at each other! Excellent discussion, which no longer exists anywhere anymore... High five to the Carnivore dude (Paul :) lol) for having the bazoongas to do it!!! And also, big credit to the ice skating dude for not letting him have his way. Applauding you Both for doing this (y) Excellent!
Jeez Paul stop he's already dead!
Walking dead yep...
Paul, you asked who goes to a bbq and eats only steak. I do! At 42 I am in the best shape of my life and absolutely fucking ripped. My nutrition is based around meat, organs, and bone broth. Thanks for your hard work, you are saving lives.
Fuck yeah, baby!
Same, 56 shredded and muscular. All inflammatory markers are phenomenally low. Carnivore and OMAD keeps me healthy and vibrant.
- Kia Ora from grass feed, COVID free New Zealand. Just loading this for my podcast listen on my 2 hour walk in the hills here in a min, but saw you note Jeff - 60 years on the planet, and last 2 have been three quarters meats - one meal a day, hike every day..... all abs are out after hiding for 40 years, well bottom 2 are almost there...... lost around 66 pound -spent a ton on new Levi’s and tops - geez, farken great time to be single as I stroll the beach with a mojito. - love listening to Paul too - just hope all my hair below the Adam’s apple, does not fall out like Paul’s..... Kia Kaha ( Be Strong ). 😎🇳🇿🇺🇸🇳🇿🇺🇸🇳🇿🇺🇸🇳🇿🇺🇸🇳🇿🇺🇸🇳🇿🇺🇸
@@petethekiwi1761 Fellow Kiwi here and in the same situation. Just got back from a walk in the hills with my dogs, I'm the leanest and healthiest I've been in my life, all thanks to quitting my low fat, high carb 'healthy' diet and eating animal products instead!
Same here exact strategy with a fair bit of raw honey....... 57 and women want to no where then can get a guy with this kind of stamina? I say go find yourself a conivore! They look at me funny 😆 lol
I need more of this. These are the debates that keep the communication going and despite which camp your in, everyone talking/listening only wants to help improve their health and the health of those they care about
1) There are plenty of interventive studies showing that meat eaters with chronic diseases fully recover when whey adopt a vegan diet . See the Gerson institutes ‘DVD “ FOOD MATTERS “ documentary (netflix or your local library )
2) The reason why there are no interventive studies showing that a healthy vegan will develop disease if the eat a meat diet is because a) the vegans are unwilling to participate b) yiu can not have an interventive study unless there is a disease condition . A vegan on a whole food diet (no refined foods ) does not any disease
3) Paul said we need meat for our brain : th-cam.com/video/kVlSX_EF8wE/w-d-xo.html Why HISTORY's Greatest Minds Didn't EAT MEAT Socraties , Leonardo DaVinci , Albert Einstein , Nikolai Telsa , Buddha , Rosa Parks, Bengamin Franklin , Sir Issaac Newton ,Thomas Edison , Susan B Anthony , Gandhi,
(note: I interject here that DHA is lost in sex .It is in semen . Our brain needs DHA to be healthy so don’t over do the sex )
4) Paul said we need meat for our bodies . Meat was out lawed in Japan from 675-1875 AD. During that time a legendary vegan warrior , THE SAMURAI, gained prominence . Today we have the extremely fats , strong , tough Shaolin Monks who are all pure vegan . I have ben vegan 40 years .In 1982 I became lacto vegan .In 1995 I became pure vegan. At that time I was almost 35 and could barely run my daily 4 miles without wanting to walk . In 1995 I quit the milk an cottage cheese and got my protein from collards , kale , turnip greens , cauliflower and bok choy and stopped eating bulgar and wheat flakes and started sprouting whole grain and soon I could run 10 miles with no fatigue .Today at age 62 I still run 7 miles 4-5 times a week and work 60 hours a week on my small farm( see my youtube videos .
5) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html
6) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down.
7) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all
8) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . the only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat
9) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up .
10) I posted these in the main section but Paul deleted them….Don’t we need a heathy environment to be healthy ?
He looks like all vegans...dr burns...from simpsons...
Boo-urns!
@@PV-free123world lmao
Mr Burns*
It's interesting that Joel starts by saying he is close-minded on the issue; that is one of the worst mindsets you could have.
If u have an open mind you might learn something. I have not met an open minded vegan yet. They do not want their minds changed. It's religious. Religious is fine, just don't pretend it's science.
He understands it all even with supplementing with meat. His point has been about too much meat not being safe like in the China study expresses more than 10-20 percent meat in diet grows cancer and below that it stops.
And the funniest part is he implored Paul at one point, “if you could just leave your biases and see the facts,” meanwhile rigidly maintaining and defending his own biases… 😂
Hi! I want to say I was plant based ( as I started calling it as I don’t like labels) for over 20 years… but always have loved learning and growing through that process… I read and listen to Drs. From all sides and have always kept an open mind ( I have been married to a non-plant based man for nearly 13 years, together 15… and I respect his freedom as he does mine…), with that I used to be a strict vegan but decided through education it wasn’t what I wanted (the label). I am currently learning more and also incorporating animal products (organic, grass fed) somewhat into my life… I always like to think of myself as open to learning and new ideas…
But I do agree on the point that most of the people who consider themselves labeled as a vegan may not be so open…
In college my housemates didn’t want to turn up the heat, and we lived in Syracuse…. It was cold… so I wore my grandmother’s fur cape… at the same time I considered myself a vegan and lived with very strict vegan housemates who were upset at me… I said I was cold and it was vintage…
Just letting you know some of us who once decidedly were labeled were actually open minded…
I think of myself as on a journey, a life-learner…
Sorry for the long reply 🙂
Yeah just like you'd be open minded about climate change debating a climate change denier.
I would have loved you to mention Weston Price's work traveling to 14 countries in the 1930's, studying cultures that did not have exposure to "foods of modern commerce". His book, "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" complete with amazing data and photographs shows that all the cultures that were healthiest (He was a researcher and had specific ways to determine levels of health) all used predominately animal food sources. I would really like to hear Joel Fuhrman's opinion after reading this book
Yes!
Another book worth mentioning is Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon. Its a cook book based on the principles of Dr. Weston Price.
Weston A Price Foundation has the best dietary principles. They don't demonize any food group. Instead they explain how each food group can become unhealthy when processed and refined. For example, for vegetables they explain how many cultures fermented and cooked their vegetables and ate them with lots of healthy saturated fats. They also say people shouldn't eat grains unless they have been soaked or fermented before cooking.
I think many of these people are missing the point. Paul puts too much emphasis on demonizing vegetables like kale but the main problem in developed countries is that they are eating tons of processed food with artificial ingredients. Foods loaded with processed sugar, hydrogenated oils, artificial chemicals, MSG, etc.
It has quickly became evident to me Dr. Fuhrman has no idea who he is dealing with (he is completely talking down to Dr. Saladino) and now at 22:00 he mentions 'blue zones.' Oh boy. This should be interesting...
He did absolutely zero preparation for this debate. So embarrassing. You can be wrong and still look prepared, but that’s not even remotely true of this poor guy.
Dr. Fuhrman is basing his beliefs on the WHO and a cancer research center? Those 2 of the worst places to get viable information from. Also, any study can be made to say whatever the funding group wants it to say.
"Shut up and eat your healthy seed oil" - WHO
This kind of felt like an ambush...Joel was on vacation, so I'm not surprised he didn't have all his evidence. Also, you tended to interrupt him quite often but were all over him about interrupting. Thanks for having this discussion.
I agree. Paul kept telling Joel to stop interrupting him but Paul did nothing but interrupt.
Agree
Yes!! Paul was the one interrupting and in my opinion he was rude to Dr. Fuhrman
I probably would have respected Joel more if
• he had actual studies he could pull-up and share
• didn’t resort to insults when respectfully challenged
• showed a greater understanding of different types of studies, including their strengths and weaknesses. Instead, he kept stating associational studies as facts.
• and didn’t have a “I’m right and you’re wrong” type of attitude the whole time.
On the other hand, Paul did an amazing job debating. He was prepared, respectful, and was not intimidated by all his “credentials”.
These types of people always respond with insults
Joel not only resorted to insults when being respectfully challenged, he straight out attacked Paul right from the beginning.
Fuhrman based a lot of his conclusions that he shared in his book on the famous China study. However, data was cherry picked in the published paper. Also, the blue zones were cherry picked and also the evidenced gathered in some of them, as Saladino pointed out, was wrong to begin with. For example, in the Greek islands, cheese, goat and pork are frequently consumed.
Well said M_Bergeron
@@regalianpeaches1 yep, I was chocked
at min. 55: "keto is dangerous longterm." I've been following the Atkins diet and now keto/carnivore for over 20 years and have never been healthier. my blood work is that of a 20 year old WRT inflammatory markers, insulin levels, etc. Of course my lipid panel shows higher levels of CHL and LDL, but my TG:HDL ratio is 0.5
Great number. I started Atkins in 1995. Been low carb ever since but struggled due to all the high carb scolds like Furman who would not let me be low carb enough. Went extremely low carb/carnivore about 10.5 months ago eating one meal a day and since then my TG/HDL numbers have been 1.43 last August on extremely low carb and 1.4 this April on carnivore. Prior ratios were not that bad --in the low 2s -- but still gained weight when I was over 50 or 60 grams of carbs a day. Going Omad and extremely low carb/carnivore dropped 25 pounds and reduced BMI from over thirty to 26. And I am 70. All labs are normal except total cholesterol and LDL.
Get this -- my testosterone was 713 last August and 900 this April in 70 year old man. But that is due primarily to progesterone which I have taken daily since 2013. Progesterone is the precursor of testosterone and progesterone is made from LDL. Even with high LDL I could not make enough progesterone to keep normal levels (much less optimal ones) of testosterone. We probably all are progesterone deficient. But going extremely low carb/carnivore has probably bumped up my testosterone a couple hundred points.
@@davidgmillsatty1900 Impressive, brother...
Me too for the past 15 years. Maybe we’re the exception but it works for us.
I thank Dr Furlman for coming on today and speaking about his lifestyle.
@@mrcadoia It is just amazing what progesterone will do for men. Testosterone is made from progesterone. It is that simple. More progesterone, more testosterone. I was applying (topically) about 120 mg of progesterone a day to get these results. In the past at 60 mg a day I was 590. I upped the progesterone due to pain from shingles (post herpetic neuralgia) and joint pain. Progesterone is a great anti-inflammatory and pain killer. My testosterone shot up in the process. The amount of progesterone I use costs me about $20 to $25 a month.
@@mrcadoia raypeat.com is the best place to study progesterone. I am not sure that Dr. Peat mentions that it will increase testosterone. But that is what happened to me when I started taking it for pain and inflammation for which it is well known as a treatment. I have recommended it to many people and they have reported similar results.
At least vegans are slowly moving away from high carb processed food
People like this Fuhrman dude will never come to any logical conclusion when it comes to diet. The way he frames his sentences shows his way of thinking: ''comparing animal protein to plant protein'' is already such a loaded comparison. Where does the animal come from, how was the diet of the animal, is it processed, is it filled with chemicals and so on... . Just your typical stubborn scientism study guy who doesn't see the truth when it is right in front of him and contradicts with his ''studies''. Not listening to such people anymore.
Cult think...emotional reasoning...
Also, is the "animal protein" in the form of whole, real food, or an isolate like whey powder?
The protein debate is easily won with stating the fact that animal proteins are complete proteins, the latter is not. Plus bioavailability factors
I think Weston A. Price’s work tells it all.
Agreed.
Saladino: "What makes you think the earth is flat?" Fuhrman: "Everybody knows the earth is flat!" Saladino: Do you have any data to prove this claim? Fuhrman: "Yes!" Saladino: "Show us." Fuhrman... "Well... I know you are but what am I ?!"
You summed this up perfectly!
This debate literally reminded me of the story of the young doctor (I can't recall the name, unfortunately) who first suggested that it might be a good idea for doctors to wash their hands before delivering a baby. The old docs reviled him, for suggesting that gentlemen were ever dirty!
@@kendrikhawk7436 Ignaz Semmelweis.
@@PV-free123world Bingo. Thanks.
@@kendrikhawk7436 Sounds like ''The People of the Lie'' by M. Scott Peck. Those who point out that a nurse has dirty fingernails are the ones accused of being evil psychopaths for pointing it out, rather than focusing on the problem that it is the nurse who is willingly ignoring basic sanitary protocols.
Joel was not friendly in the slightest. Great work keeping a level head, Paul!
That's what happens when you're not confident in what you believe or know. A person confident in what they know do not get snippy when challenged.
Wow, what a biased comment. They both attacked each other and blatantly tried to smother the other's opinion...which is fine, it's a debate lol. Just cause Paul said "please" a few times doesn't cover up for all the times he cut off Joel and said his data was garbage. Joel also said "please" several times. You're just a zealot so you can't see these things clearly.
Watching this video increased my inflammatory markers and raised my blood pressure 10 points.
Lol! That's what I was going to say :)
My favorite part about this is that Joel is literally doing all the things that he accuses Paul of doing. Cherrypicking, not looking at all the data, etc.
Yep anosognosia ...
What are you talking about?
@@happyhealthylife4ever I'm guessing you mean the other guy, but if you mean me, then you need to be more specific.
Cherry picking? It’s called the consensus! The Inuit, on their traditional diet had an average
life expectancy into there sixties! Enjoy your meat and the romance of it all but a meat based diet doesn’t produce the oldest populations. Can you have a full and meaningful life eating mainly meat? Of course. At the end of the days it comes down to individual preferences. Covid-19 and many viruses are spread from livestock. Livestock is
the most inefficient means of producing food. And there’s not enough wild animals in the world to support the human population.
@@InfiniteQuest86 nope...no mistake here ....Dr Saladino hasn’t shown any worthwhile study....as always he is not interested in evidence based nutrition.....when he continues like that he will lose his medical license like Shawn Baker...he is putting people in danger...
He obviously needs to eat a steak.
Both of them :D
I always feel better with red meat in my diet. :-)
Paul is so rude !! Just because you haven’t seen the study Paul doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.. !! Paul’s defensiveness should tell you everything.. anyone that has truth on their side doesn’t need to be aggressive and defensive.. Dr Fuhrman is correct the body of evidence is overwhelming on this topic.
Delusional
Furhman looks like he narrowly escaped death
Fuhrman speaks ONLY about observational studies, zero interventional studies.
Where is credibility?
He reminds me medieval inquisitor with his appearance and way of thinking.
What's wrong with observational studies?
@@LisaMurphy Observational studies do not prove anything. Interventional studies show causation. They show what directly causes an issue in humans. Just observing something so complex with some many variables is not possible. There is room for too many errors. Research scientists need to control what their test subjects ingest so as not to skew the results. With something as important as health we need to pin point the cause of diesease, disorder, and malnutrition. Google interventional studies, and you will get a good picture of how important they are compared epidemiological studies that only correlate between rises in health markers not what is causing these rises.
@@LisaMurphy observational studies showing correlation not causation.
Because observational studies are not randomized, they cannot control for all of the other inevitable, often unmeasurable, exposures or factors that may actually be causing the results.
Any “link” between cause and effect in observational studies is more or less speculative .
@@odious5317 Well I googled it and it got too confusing for me with science jargon. So let me ask: would an interventional study on red meat be one where you have a group of people all eating a certain amount of red meat every day over the course of five years, to see how it affects their blood work, weight, and other health factors? So it's like a completely controlled study?
@@LisaMurphy Yes, it's a completely controlled study. The duration of the study can vary.
I find it crazy that red meat, something our dna evolved over millennia while we were eating it, would be bad for us. It just doesnt seem like a possible outcome.
@@JoyKongMD comparing slavery to human DNA and the things that are congruent with the DNA we have is literally insane.
You understand our dna evolved over an even greater period of time to consume plants, yes?
Man Paul really got dragged through the mud by this doctor. Really shows the ignorance in the carnivore diet.
Human evolution!
Did you know that eating ice cream is strongly correalted with drowning? It is not the ice cream that causes the drowning, though. It is the fact that both occur more in summer, when people are swimming a lot. Trying to reduce ice cream consumption in order to reduce the risk of drowning is about how dumb this vegan expert sounds. I will never trust a scientist trying to manipulate their audience by pretending correlation is anything more than a thing that gives ideas for what to study interventionally and clinically next.
🤣🤣🤣
I knew a guy who ate a turnip, and he got hit by a bus.
@@PV-free123world I will never eat a turnip again, therefor I will never be hot by a bus.
And the murder rate also increases in summer-time. Don't be too surprised if some pro-vegan study or other starts telling us that dairy induces psychopathy.
Is this Dr. Furhman a vegan? Well that discredits him, although that's not to say that I'm a fan of the keto diet. I think the Keto diet is ok for helping dangerously obese people lose weight but is not healthy long term. The people in this world who live the longest eat a balance of veggies and meats.
Well, respect to both of you for being big enough to have this talk like adults.
Years ago, I did the Dr Christopher’s school of natural healing master herbalist program… Joel’s book, eat to live was part of the curriculum…. I honestly tried his diet strictly during this school… I lost some weight, but also had tremendous digestive issues and lost a lot of strength ( I was a young active lifter at the time so I was obvious) … this debate warmed my heart all these years later.
#VeggiesAreWhatMyFoodEats 😁
You had tremendous digestive issues bc your body lacked the "machinery", in the form of gut biodiversity, to digest the fiber so it was going right through you. Do you eat fermented products regularly? When was the last time you nuked your gut with antibiotics? This is what Dr.F needs to be clearer on - you can't just switch to Nutritarian and expect immediate changes. You have to ramp up. He does say in some of his videos to ramp up beans from 1 tablespoon to 1 cup over a few months. But this also applies to everything else. 90% of people aren't going to have the bacteria to process primarily G-BOMBS in the diet when eating meat and processed foods and using heavy antibiotics for decades. Nutritarian diet saves lives but it has to be implemented correctly in accordance to each person's current microbiome. One cannot simply process a large amount of different plant fibers without the bacteria. It will be gi nightmare for the patient...
@@naughtyorgneiss that's tight!!! Joel Fuhrman and Adreas Michalsen from Berlin r the best
The above argument re: ramping up and assuming no gut bacteria is bunk. I take no antibiotics nor any meds whatsoever and eat plenty of fermented vegetables and yet my gut cannot handle raw vegetables and fruit, so far, hoping to change the fruit part by healing my gut. Taking supplemental enzymes is not an answer, didn’t help. Currently trying carnivore w some cooked and fermented vegs, low carb. Doing Jack Kruse’s Leptin Reset protocol and just taking HCL because of low stomach acid. Everything is peachy. Love it. Sunlight exposure and circadian rhythm living are key.
@adrielbadillo1942 Carnivore is a definitely a good temporary elimination diet for a hard reset for allergies and crappy gut (e.g. candida, H.P). People see good results b/c they're not spiking insulin via processed foods, not eating high gi foods, not ingesting artifical chemicals/coloring/preservatives from processed foods, etc. But its lack of prebiotic fiber is going to rob you of gut biodiversity which does incredible things for our health (look up butyric acid and other short chain fatty acids), so it should just be a short term diet. The goal everyone should have is gut biodiversity and that can also include meats in limited fashion. However, meats spike igf-1 levels which feeds cancers, and meats cause inflammation. It shoudl be noted that igf-1 can be beneficial for certain cohorts like the elderly since it assists with nutrient absorption. If you aren't old, then eating meat every single day in large quantities is asking for trouble at the hormonal level imo. I eat it about twice a week and that's enough for my body, and I also do extended fasts a few times a year which has been shown to kill up to 80% of types of cancers. So if a patient wanted to eat a crapton of meat, it could work IF the person is willing to do extended fasts. If they're not, then they are immensely increasing their cancer risk via igf-1. And if they're eating a ton of meats AND sugar (i.e. spiking glucose), it's a wrap because those are the two primary things that cancer needs. All in all, I limit meats but won't completely cut them out because I'm very active. And when I eat them, I eat a huge salad first to somewhat neutralize inflammation, according to studies. In summary, meat is nice for active athletes and carnivore is good for elimination, but it's not going optimize the gut which is optimizing our health.
@@naughtyorgneiss*all humans* lack the machinery to digest fibre. Humans don't digest fibre in any meaningful amount. you'd need like 2kg of dry refined fibre to make up your daily calories. Fiber is NOT good for humans we lost than ability when we decended from chimpanzees. This amount of fibre would also kill you from gastrointestinal pressure.... So you poop it out
I hvae not yet seen proof that humans need any gut bacteria to digest approriat food. We have the enzyme and acidic/alkaline chemistry to do without. Starch, animal protein, fat. All easy to digest without bacteria. Do you have anything to say otherwise?
You’re both right. You need both animal products and some plants and avoid processed foods and seed oils and junk. Admittedly there are out lyres. My dad is 80 and a smoker. But I remember him always eating steaks 🥩 and salad 🥗 also. He likes his carbs too. SO be a study of one and see what makes you feel better.
Thank you for doing this. I respect you both.
I mostly eat meat, my parents raised us that way but I enjoy veggies at times. I’ve never ever been sick. Thank you for doing more of these in the future. By the way, Dr. Furman does use high doses of fish oil when treating very sick people as I heard it on a podcast with him and Chef AJ. So that’s an animal-based product, LOL
you never been sick, what? say'n that u sick
fish is amphibian not animal
Its algae oil not fish oip
@@boahyah9960 amphibian is a type of animal
@@boahyah9960 fish is not an amphibian. Frogs, Toads, Newts, Salamanders are amphibians. regardless all of the said species are animals.
He accuses Dr. Paul of having a religious, preference informed belief system and then demonstrates that he is the one operating from a religious belief system. The hallmarks of which are the personal attacks. He gets personal right away and throughout.
I followed the Nutritarian diet for over two years. At first I felt good but as time went on, I lost too much weight, began to experience oxalate symptoms mainly vertigo. Beans, nuts, and many of the foods Dr Furhman recommends are high in oxalates.. they were harming me. So glad I'm now eating a meat based diet. I feel like I got my health back. Vertigo completely gone. Thank you Paul for this debate. He cant give you the data because it doesn't exist.
How much B12 were you supplementing when you were following Furmans diet?
@@WolfgangLizana I took B12 every day. 500mcg
I think a balance of solid animal protein, and organic vegetation is a perfect balance. Extremitys are never the path.
@@StylezMajorMusic when organic vegetation triggers autoimmune symptoms, then yes, extremity is the path
@@StylezMajorMusic what vegetarian based foods would you recommend ?
Paul Saladino! you are so well-spoken and relaxed and calm. ROUND OF APPLAUSE MY MAN
I don’t believe a word the comes out of WHO.
Amazing debate Paul, i am sure JF will go skiing and then stop at a meat restaurant after this conversation!!! Great
Game, Set, Match. Saladino you schooled him.. this is not a religion. This is science as humans understand it. Why would we do something if it was going to kill us? We are all looking for the truth and following the science. As a Anesthesia clinician and PhD it's hard to watch an MD use an epidemiological and associational studies to make his point. The fact he did not come prepared with real studies is disheartening. We all have bias. Like I said before living healthy trumps my Bias!!!! I try really hard to watch both sides. However, the people on the carnivore or keto side present much more functional evidence. I don't want To get political. but, the fact that he fund raised for PBS tells you exactly what you need to know. You can't say that politics don't get in the way of plant-based diet. you really can't say that for the other side of the of the aisle. because, most of them are omnivores! Or on SAD diet. I believe Dr. Paul comes at it from a seeking knowledge standpoint. You destroyed him in this debate!
Dr. FUHRMAN!!! Always! No meat, ever!!!!
Did you watch the podcast?😂
22:30 yeah, because veganism definitely works long term, that's why there's no such thing as ex-vegans 😂
There a many ex-vegans. I'm one of them. The diet was a disaster and left me exhausted,a nervous wreck,constantly sick,depressed,with high triglycerides (302) and low HDL (24). I hope that you consider becoming an ex-vegan too.
@@billrener4897 I am an ex-vegan, I was being sarcastic. Veganism caused me all types of problems, anemia and joint pain amongst others (like low cholesterol, vit D deficiency... the list goes on)
@@margheritap.1187 if you're ex-vegan it might be time to remove My Vegan Recipes from your playlist! Welcome to the tribe
@@johnny7808 👍not gonna have a vegan meal ever again. Although now in my opinion it's more vegan to have steak for lunch than a plate of pasta
I keep hearing about ex-vegans (people who actually follow the vegan diets through and through) who changed due to health.
Is there such a thing as ex-carnivore/ketovore who went purely plants due to health?
"Salt is a plant food" - Joel Fuhrman MD, 2021
Yeah I caught that lol
How will Paul recover from that one?
@@Dan-gs3kg lol
Man.. this is like the left and the right arguing on anything lol. One side is logical, open minded, brings facts to the table, is willing to admit defeat when wrong, while the other side is based on feelings, assumptions, interrupts (even prevents) the other from talking, accuses but can't argue with facts... soooo annoying.
Not gonna lie Joel looks older than 67.
Looks like he had a face lift.
I don’t think he does. His skin is good. I think the lack of hair makes him look older.
As a meat eater, I think that he actually looks slightly younger than 67. Like around 63-65
Im a meat eater and i think he looks great
Paul knocked him out of the park. China study, Ornish, Esselstyn and Seventh Day Adventist studies, smh. Brown vs white is only a few minutes difference for insulin spikes. Any diet requiring supplements to get essential nutrients is the wrong diet. For over 300,000 years we’ve been consuming animal products, confirmed also by isotopes N14 and 15.
Juliette Autumn lol!
Did you watch the same video I did?😂
Esselstyn and his wife are healthy in their 90s. Clearly their diet is working.
😂😂😂
Great debate.Joel has helped guide many to health.i enjoy following both experts.
I really want to see the studies Joel Fuhrman mentioned and Paul requested.
I had poor blood sugar control until I went mostly beef with minimal cooked non-starch veggies.
"Increased lean red meat intake does not elevate markers of oxidative stress and inflammation in humans" - funded by "a Red Meat and Human Nutrition grant provided by Meat and Livestock Australia Limited."
Follow the money, people.
I wonder is paul is working for the mat industry
The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life .
It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan
Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan
It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human top survive and flourish on a vegan diet.
The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual
The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering .
Here are some more FACTS
1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year
2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef
3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together
4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase
5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing .
6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre
7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html
Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html
8) 1 billion people are already going hungry and can not get clean water .5000 die every year from drinking dirty water
9) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html
10) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down.
11) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all
12) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . The only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat
13) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up .
Even if meat eating is slightly better for the health of any isolated individual it is still a proven fact that humans can live a long healthy life on vegan diet and that a vegan diet is much less harmful to the environment .Unless we do Billions will starve due to droughts an famines.
"Plant-based" is supported by every billionaire, the mainstream media, Hollywood, the UN, the WHO, Big Agriculture (Bayer-Monsanto, Con Agra, sugar and grain industries, etc.), the medical industrial complex, governments throughout the Western world, and so on and so forth. You're not a rebel.
@@rbbiefah Veganism is slow suicide.
@@RockoMyler Evidence? Anything at all?
@@mushshrap6471 Having eyes and understanding what "insulin response" is, not to mention being aware of the 15 essential nutrients which no pesticide-soaked plants can provide.
Also this guy needs meat! He’s cognitively not doing well in this interview. Reminding me of Joe Biden poor guy!
Hong Kong, leading red meat consumers, highest life expectancy on the planet. Why is that?
Their colon cancer rates also increased as the meat intake did. Also the increased lifespan could be due to better access to health care, good social circles and an improved economy. Richer populations tend to live longer because of access to healthcare and affordable medicine.
@@ynghuch Let's just discard the increase in consumption of seed oils, processed food and sugars. Let's blame the meat over things that do not occur in nature. Makes sense lol.
@@bryce74 I know right? Nutrition science is a fucking minefield. The only hing I believe is this, Processed = Not good, Whole food = way better.
@@ynghuch I fully agree with you. We also have to consider the financial interests of big pharma and rich people like Bill Gates who has shares in them. If everyone was healthy pharma won't make money so they have created this lie to keep us sick to make money. I believe the same with vaccines and drugs. No studies show they are safe, we don't know the ingredients and we can't take action against them if they cause us harm. If we put good things in our bodies we will get good out of it. We have an immune system for a reason we don't need man-made substances that our bodies are not designed to deal with.
@@bryce74 I’m not strictly anti-medicine myself, but I live in the UK. We managed to eliminate salmonella here by vaccinating chickens. I would be skeptical of it in the US though, especially the FDA. The shit the get away with and allow in America is unreal.
All I know is that every time I would go plant based, My eczema would flare up and I would start having really bad gut issues. Had to stop plant based thought I was dying!
@@samanthacartwright3407 🤣
@@samanthacartwright3407 🤣
@@samanthacartwright3407 🤣
@@samanthacartwright3407 🤣
@@samanthacartwright3407 🤣
Paul, you absolutely destroyed Joel, which he asked for whenever he suggested you should be jailed for expressing your well researched opinion on the optimal human diet.
The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life .
It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan
Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan
It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human top survive and flourish on a vegan diet.
The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual
The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering .
Here are some more FACTS
1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year
2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef
3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together
4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase
5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing .
6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre
7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html
Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html
8) 1 billion people are already going hungry and can not get clean water .5000 die every year from drinking dirty water
9) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html
10) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down.
11) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all
12) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . The only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat
13) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up .
Even if meat eating is slightly better for the health of any isolated individual it is still a proven fact that humans can live a long healthy life on vegan diet and that a vegan diet is much less harmful to the environment .Unless we do Billions will starve due to droughts an famines.
I have the utmost respect for Dr. Saladino, but I think this debate could have been more civil, it got real heated, not sure if it was in fact a "friendly debate" lol. It felt like Joel got bullied later on in the debate, probably because he was condescending to Paul at first. Joel was ultimately outclassed by Paul who was much better prepared.
Also, I find it hilarious that the plant base doctor's last name is pronounced "Fur-man" like some sort of hunter, and the animal based doctor's last name has Salad in it.
The fact that Joel made some derogatory remarks about Paul (saying he should be in jail) prior to this debate could have soured things. I will say that Joel Fuhrman does seem like one of the more rational vegans, he admitted the potential for nutrient deficiencies on the vegan diet, the necessity of supplementation, avoidance of refined carbs and sugars, and how plant based people may benefit from at least small amounts of animal foods. They had more in common than they may have initially realized, and many plant based advocates would not have admitted what Dr. Fuhrman did.
I wish they covered more things in detail, as opposed to arguing about the validity of the studies behind their claims, interrupting each other, and calling each others sources garbage, etc. which should have been put on the back burner after a while of stagnant debate.
I wish they would have covered how subtle, easily overlooked factors such as improper methionine/glycine balance, and the consumption of high linoleic acid meats from soy/corn fed animals could impact outcomes on long term studies on meat consumption, in addition to the hazards of plant defense chemicals, antinutrients, and the ethics of meat consumption, going into detail about regenerative agriculture, alternatives to factory farming, nutrient density in pastured vs. conventional, whether going vegan is realistic for the majority of people, etc.
There were so many productive topics that could have been explored further. I think that both sides should have considered the other more closely. Joel was claiming that the long term epidemiologic data is the gold standard, and he was unwilling to consider contradictory information, making excuses or calling the studies that Paul showed garbage, and Paul was claiming epidemiologic data on nutritional science is sub par due to healthy and unhealthy user bias, and that interventional data contradicts it, calling into question it's validity; the problem here is that there is no long term interventional data on a carnivore diet, so how can you completely disregard concerns ?
They are both right in a way. There are no long term studies on the carnivore diet, so you cant say with absolute certainty that you wont have a reduced lifespan. While the majority of humans ate a meat centric diet throughout our evolution, and many modern indigenous populations are still eating a meat centric diet with good health, this does not necessarily mean that a meat centric diet is going to result in the best possible lifespan. You don't need to live to 90-100+ years old to carry on your genes. With that being said, the claim that a diet devoid of the food that we are biologically adapted to consume is the optimal diet for human health is a tough sell.
Is this supposed reduction in lifespan seen in other omnivores, or carnivores ? What intrinsic properties could meat possibly have in order to cause these effects ? If meat actually does have properties that can reduce the human lifespan, is it even the meat itself, or how it is processed and prepared, considering the fact that our bodies have adapted to it's consumption ? If meat does have properties that reduce lifespan, can they be mitigated against whilst retaining the nutritional benefits of meat consumption ?
What about the documented health benefits of high fish consumption, such as increased lifespan and reduced cardiovascular, cancer, Alzheimer's, and liver disease mortality risk ?
There needs to be a long term study on modern people, living with modern convivence, hygiene, and medicine, free from the pressure of environmental hazards consuming a "nose to tail" animal based diet, like the kind Dr. Saladino recommends. At the moment, it is not really possible to say with certainty whether or not eating meat will reduce lifespan, not eating any meat probably will if you don't have an expertly planned and adequately supplemented vegan diet. IMHO the safest option is to just eat a balanced diet without processed foods, focusing on a variety of lower toxicity plant foods, and high quality pasture raised/grass fed/free range meats, and eliminating refined vegetable and seed oils. Most health experts, regardless of their dietary preference would at the very least reluctantly agree with this.
I think that nutrition researches and doctors should be asking these questions, not attempting to confirm their own biases and proselytize for them, screwing all of us in the process. I also think that Dr. Saladino's voice, while controversial, is one that needs to be heard, and the fact that he welcomes people like this on his podcasts instead of just hiding in an echo chamber is very respectable.
Thankyou for your well thought out comment. Very well put. I need to look into that glycine balance you mentioned! I just started taking glycine isolate to help with sleep and it has helped alot, plus seems to ease my digestion too in the morning
this dr. paul is one inpatient, loud mouthed immature dude that wants to be heard & not listen
This discussion was actually pretty fascinating, especially after reading The Dieticians Dilemma by Michelle Hurn. Dr. Fuhrman brought up Seventh Day Adventists repeatedly. They play a not insignificant role in nutrition research and policy in America.
Sadly true about 7th Day influencing the government’s diet recommendations. And not just in the US. See Dr. Fettke’s story in Australia.
1) There are plenty of interventive studies showing that meat eaters with chronic diseases fully recover when whey adopt a vegan diet . See the Gerson institutes ‘DVD “ FOOD MATTERS “ documentary (netflix or your local library )
2) The reason why there are no interventive studies showing that a healthy vegan will develop disease if the eat a meat diet is because a) the vegans are unwilling to participate b) yiu can not have an interventive study unless there is a disease condition . A vegan on a whole food diet (no refined foods ) does not any disease
3) Paul said we need meat for our brain : th-cam.com/video/kVlSX_EF8wE/w-d-xo.html Why HISTORY's Greatest Minds Didn't EAT MEAT Socraties , Leonardo DaVinci , Albert Einstein , Nikolai Telsa , Buddha , Rosa Parks, Bengamin Franklin , Sir Issaac Newton ,Thomas Edison , Susan B Anthony , Gandhi,
(note: I interject here that DHA is lost in sex .It is in semen . Our brain needs DHA to be healthy so don’t over do the sex )
4) Paul said we need meat for our bodies . Meat was out lawed in Japan from 675-1875 AD. During that time a legendary vegan warrior , THE SAMURAI, gained prominence . Today we have the extremely fats , strong , tough Shaolin Monks who are all pure vegan . I have ben vegan 40 years .In 1982 I became lacto vegan .In 1995 I became pure vegan. At that time I was almost 35 and could barely run my daily 4 miles without wanting to walk . In 1995 I quit the milk an cottage cheese and got my protein from collards , kale , turnip greens , cauliflower and bok choy and stopped eating bulgar and wheat flakes and started sprouting whole grain and soon I could run 10 miles with no fatigue .Today at age 62 I still run 7 miles 4-5 times a week and work 60 hours a week on my small farm( see my youtube videos .
5) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html
6) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down.
7) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all
8) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . the only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat
9) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up .
10) I posted these in the main section but Paul deleted them….Don’t we need a heathy environment to be healthy ?
Watching this while eating a pound of grass fed grass finished beef and 4 oz of raw beef liver! Lol
You can see the difference in skin color between the two guys. Which has more oxygen and haemoglobin? Which one is more jaundiced and yellow?
This guy’s logic is basically that a majority of people that believe the same thing surely can’t be wrong. Very telling, and very dangerous.
Appealing to consensus fallacy... common among people in 2021.
Before the majority of doctors believed blowing smoke up a persons ass in drowning victims saved them hence the saying “don’t blow smoke up my ass.”
Which guy? Both are guys.
@@dfv671 Good job trying to be a smart aleck. You are so witty. He states which guy, the guy that states that the majority of people that believe the same thing is right. Its the old man if you haven't figured that out. This world is a lost cause.
howd you get even that wrong? that is not his logic. its the fact that majority of the well done studies actually show what he says. so yes majority of people should agree.
I never hold credence to people who belittle when a person is feeling better, saying those who disagree with them should be in jail, or assume that certain studies exist that support their position.
I agree, and I think to make up for substance, people go to personal attacks
I was meat eater suffered from kidney stones, and bad health overall been vegan for 5 years sharp mind and great health over all.
It's the opposite for me plants were giving me kidney stones
Veganism is malnutrition. You lack 15 nutrients that you can't get from any plant food.
You invited someone who wants you to be in jail!
I had a hard time listening to him do all the things he accused you of doing. Very cringe :(
I guess Dr Saladino, claiming that epidemiological studies being trash, is not aware of dose response relationships (which was how scientist could show cigarettes' negative health consequences) and how Ansel Keys work has been studied and reproduced so many times. Just look at Finland's North Karelia project that transformed their healthcare. Not sure if his side hustle is intervening with his assumingly good intentions but it's really unfortunate that he is so misinformed. They should definitely increase how much MDs are trained about nutrition.
Spot on!!
Dr. Fuhrman came to battle with a saggy bamboo stick.
I was thinking more along the lines of a slingshot shooting walnuts.
I fail to see how Dr. Fuhrman seemed more emotionally charged than Dr. Saladino. If anything, Paul seemed the more aggravated of the two at times. That may be my perspective and I understand how it could go either way.
This leads me to believe that this form of debate approaches on worthless. These need to be done in person, with a moderator, and with the ground work laid before hand. Paul continued to say, 'where is the study' - Was coming armed with studies part of the agreement? It sounded like Joel was on vacation and maybe didn't know what the rules of engagement ought to be. Hell if I know, be if we want conversations like these to be as informative and valuable as possible, then the field needs to be prepared beforehand.
Throwing out the entirety or the majority of Epidemiology is ridiculous. Nutritional studies do not lend well to RCTs, particularly long-term. They should still be done, but they are never going to make up the body of evidence. Epidemiologists have known this for decades and have worked continuously to make their field of study more accurate. Why does Paul continue to admonish epidemiology and then pull studies from there to support his point? That made no sense to me.
I am not vegan or vegetarian, but it is weird to read the comments riding Paul's ass. I tried to watch this objectively as possible, and obviously still have my biases, but I did not see how he was any more convincing than Joel
Exactly. The rest of this comment section reads like Dr Saladino fan club which makes sense since it's his channel but I wish people were more intellectually neutral. Yes Dr Furman started with a slightly pretentious opening but Paul was more aggressive and just felt like someone who was eager to slam his opponet. Perhaps Joel's twitter comment set a tone. Both sides talked too long before letting the other respond. Make a point then let the other discuss their counterpoint, don't talk for 5 minutes with 50 points
@@Will.27 Agreed. I take information from many sources and try to stay as neutral as possible. I don't always do a good job and I end up liking certain people and their viewpoints, but no one person is right. It's ludicrous to think anyone has 'the truth'.
Like you brought up, I don't think this is the best format to debate and points you stated would make for a more productive stage. Paul stated he wants to do more of these - fine, but it seems more entertainment than getting closer the 'the truth'
The debate should not be which is healthier , a vegan or meat diet. Both have been proven to be more than adequate to sustain heath and prolong life .
It is a fact that Top athletes like Carl Lewis who won 9 gold metals over 20 years was vegan
Its is fact that the world’s greatest geniuses like Leonardo Davinci , Albert Einstein , Benjamin Franklin and Nikolai Tesla were vegan
It is fact that there are about 79 million vegans in the world .So there is no doubt that it is possible for a human to survive and flourish on a vegan diet.
The question not wither a meat diet is threat to the health of an isolated individual
The much more serious question to get clear on is wither a meat diet will cause catastrophic human suffering .
Here are some more FACTS
1) deforestation : The meat industry clears additional 28 million acres of forest per year
2) pumping aquifers dry : It takes 2500 galloons of water to produce each pound of beef
3) generation of more green house gasses than all forms of transportation put together
4) The average Global temperature has gone up from 13.94C to 14.94C in the last 142 years a 6.9% increase
5) Human activities add 3% to naturally occurring green house gasses. Humans have removed 1/3 of the worlds forests . So by adding 3% and subtracting 33% humans have increased the build up of green house gasses by 36% over what nature was doing .
6) An acre of forest transpires 48,219.6 gallon per day per acre
7) By clearing 1/3 of the earths forest we are causing droughts like these drought IN USA like these : th-cam.com/video/w3YYH7hQTT8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/K9hUNufKIKw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/kYsrGaHX7M4/w-d-xo.html
Drought in Bazil th-cam.com/video/6rQmG-koEPI/w-d-xo.html East Africath-cam.com/video/22V83YIhVVc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/CFUktIz40TI/w-d-xo.html
8) 1 billion people are already going hungry and can not get clean water .5000 die every year from drinking dirty water
9) There is another group of vegans worth studying :THE RADHA SOAMI SAT SANG BEAS , who began in 1856 and today number over 4 million . Im a me member and I can tell you they are very healthy and strong and do live to a ripe old age .Here’s a video th-cam.com/video/PtlKdbAXZmw/w-d-xo.html
10) What Paul said about getting Phytonutrients from grass fed beef is not practical . Already 38% of the earth’s habitable land mass is used for cow pasture and to grow cow feed . If all our cows were pasture fed it would require 95% of earths habitable surface . The grass fed rule is 1 cow per minimum 1-3 acres (conventional) 1 cow per minimum 2.5-6 acres (regenerative ) depending on rain fall and type of pasture. All of earths forests would have to be cut down.
11) But if we all got our nutrition including phytonutirents from plants 11% of earths habitable land mass would be enough to feed us all
12) The meat industry clears 28 million acres of forest each year for cow pasture and feed growing , and generates more green house gases than all transportation combined .The money to do all this comes from meat we buy and from no where else . The only way to shut it down is to stop buying meat
13) If you calculate the amount of water it takes to grow a cows food and the 21 gallons per day a cow drinks it takes 2500 gallons of water per pound of beef produced .This water is pumped out of aquifers that tool 1000 year to build up and now these are running dry . TH-cam search “Mega droughts 2021” farms in the western USA are already cutting production by 1/3 due to rivers and aquifers drying up .
Even if meat eating is slightly better for the health of any isolated individual it is still a proven fact that humans can live a long healthy life on vegan diet and that a vegan diet is much less harmful to the environment .Unless we do Billions will starve due to droughts and famines.
Big fans of both fellas. CarnivoreMD now eats lots of plants in his daily diet, and Fuhrman says to eat some meat. Both guys are talking about a whole food diet woth some of the makeup changed and both versions of the whole food diet take place in the context of an active lifestyle. Lots of overlap is what i see.
Correction, Paul doesn't eat "plants" as in stems, leaves, roots or seeds. He eats the "fruit" of plants. There's a big difference and reasons why.
@@allenbrost9564
Exactly. There’s a huge difference between leafy plants and fruits.
This is the only video I refuse to watch because Joel makes my skin crawl with his pseudo science rhetoric confirmation bias! 😡
I started with a open mind towards Juel Furhman , but instantly he used SAD diets with oils and sugar as a starting point and variabel of how much percent meat thats included, If you start with flawed data , you get flawed results. And to be a writer of several books on his topic , its clear he just avoided Dr Saladino's question and could not answer much on top of his head. I think he made his books as copies of other vegan writers .
The debate stated by Saladino that the objective is better health is left quickly , it clearly moving to how , not result. just a long tirade of call to autorites
You look much much more healthier than the vegan guy, with that said I do understand the age difference however you can plainly see the health difference.
Just look at Mark sisson for example. He just turned 69 and looks 10 times better than this guy
This guys wants to argue that Asian epidemiology is trash but western epidemiology is infallible..... what cognitive dissonance 🤦🏻♀️
cudos to both of you for doing this. Paul, your arguments were spot on. thanks for doing this.
I know it's hard to listen to someone that's talking about things you strongly oppose without getting excited to counter, but I must say that Joel, at times, was right to criticize you for interrupting him.
Fuhrman may be a former world-class figure skater. And is now a vegan. But it is highly unlikely he was a vegan in his younger years when he was developing his body while training and competing.
Show me the health outcomes and epigenetic results of veganism over multiple generations. One suspects it might be like Pottenger's cats and that, after enough generations, vegans would become so unhealthy they'd no longer be able to reproduce.
So, maybe it's a problem that could solve itself. If vegans only had children with other vegans, the diet would go extinct before long. But that isn't what we see because most vegans grew up eating meat and inherited the healthy epigenetics of previous generations eating meat.
He wasn't vegan when he was younger. He went vegan after he had an injury that wouldn't heal and he went to some clinic where he used fasting, juices and a vegan diet to heal. So he grew up eating meat.
@@lisaellious8260 - That makes sense. I see veganism as possibly helpful for some people in healing, similar to fasting. As both restrict calories, they potentially induce ketosis and autophagy. That can be a good thing over short periods, but one wouldn't want to do continuous veganism any more than one would want to do continuous fasting. At some point, one needs to add back in nutrient-dense animal foods for general health or else likely suffer nutrient deficiencies and health decline.
@@MarmaladeINFP I agree! I am living proof! I did Dr. Fuhrman's diet on and off for over 6 years and really screwed up my health!!
@@lisaellious8260 - I never tried veganism. But when I was younger, I followed a vegetarian diet for a year, although with plenty of eggs and dairy.
I didn't have any particular positive or negative results, at least as compared to the standard American diet I was on previously. Then again, my vegetarian diet wasn't as healthy as it could've been since it still included lots of high-carb processed foods.
Anyway, I'm glad I never went the vegan route. That definitely would've worsened the severe depression I struggled with for decades before going low-carb and nutrient-dense.
Look at the family of John Robbins, vegan author of Diet for a New America. He grew up a healthy meat- and ice cream-eater and now looks a lot like Furman. His son was raised vegan and looked rather sickly, and the grandsons have serious health issues.
The Maasai and their Diet
The Maasai are a pastoralist tribe living in Kenya and Northern Tanzania. Their traditional diet consists almost entirely of milk, meat, and blood. Two thirds of their calories come from fat, and they consume 600 - 2000 mg of cholesterol a day. To put that number in perspective, the American Heart Association recommends consuming under 300 mg of cholesterol a day.
In spite of a high fat, high cholesterol diet, the Maasai have low rates of diseases typically associated with such diets.
They tend to have low blood pressure, their overall cholesterol levels are low, they have low incidences of cholesterol gallstones, as well as low rates of coronary artery diseases such as atherosclerosis.
I partially agree with this statement assuming it's true but also what about the factor of them running and walking everywhere . Perhaps on a carni diet we may also need to be also very active also perhaps.?
They eat tubers and fruit also no? What’s there life expectancy..
It’s because the AHA wants people dumbed down...ANY mainstream medical advise is ALL part of the Big Pharma scam! That IS how they make their money!! Vaccines are “safe and effective” right??
The studies on the Maasai did show the contrary...very diseased people...
@@lucam2942 tubers not rly. fruit is eaten by African tribes in general, but how much of the diet it makes up is very low though not insignificant. Barring accident (animal attack and the like) much higher life expectancy than the US.