Breaking the cycle of Narcissistic Abuse
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- On episode 226 of Ask Kati Anything, Kati addresses a range of complex mental health topics, including:
• The morality of suicide and assisted death for chronic illnesses
• Coping with anxiety around receiving compliments and kindness
• Moral responsibility for actions by individuals with severe mental illnesses
• Understanding and processing trauma and emotions
• Developing a sense of self after childhood trauma
• Breaking the cycle of narcissistic abuse and the importance of speaking up
Kati, a licensed therapist, provides insights and guidance on these challenging issues, offering a professional perspective while acknowledging the nuances and complexities involved in each situation.
Audience Question:
1. Do you think suicide is selfish? And any thought on feeling like you're living not for yourself, but so that the people who love you won't be sad? I want to add this: Is it ever okay if you live with an illness like fibromyalgia or any other chronic condition where the symptoms are so unbearable? And is it different with terminal illnesses like cancer? 01:36
2. Sometimes I feel very anxious? Uncomfortable? like not sure what to do with myself when others say something nice to me or do something nice for me, especially for no particular reasons. I feel like I'm not deserving of it or like I have not earned it or that I can reciprocate it. So then I spend a lot of time thinking how... 17:21
3. Can people with severe mental illnesses be held morally responsible for things they did or ways they behave? There's a man on youtube named Daniel Larson, some may heard of him, he was a tik toker/youtube video vlogger who, according to documentation, has schizophrenia, autism, PTSD, and Bipolar. There could be more but I'm not sure. This man has seen a lot of online hate and harassment due to his behavior, which include: apparent attraction to underage people, delusions of fame and grandeur, a large sense of entitlement, and his physical violence towards his mentor when he had some kind of mental breakdown... 23:58
4. This may be an obvious question but what does it mean to 'process' an emotion or a trauma? I feel like this is a term we use a lot but no one really defines what it means. Are there prescribed steps that we need to follow? 30:54
5. Hi Kati I hope this question resonates with others but how do you know ‘who you are’ or have a sense of self if your childhood and adolescence was filled with multiple traumas and as a result the only constant in your adulthood is the side effects of the trauma. How do you become a person once you are already an adult? 40:40
6. My therapist said” By keeping quiet, you are allowing it to continue hurting you.” My mom is a narcissist. What the heck? I’m the “victim”! I don’t control her. I don’t choose anything she does to me. What is he saying? Sounds like he’s blaming me? 44:19
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Something i do just for myself is going out for dessert. I just got a new job, moved to a new city, and broke up with my boyfriend and i found it hard to focus on my own life, and to develop a sense of what i want and how i want to build my life. Every thursday, i go to a fancy restaurant during happy hour right after work, order a coffee and a dessert, and read my book. I set aside similar tasks to spend more time with myself, like going to the movies every tuesday (discount tickets!). I feel better about being alone, and im not lonely. Life is good.
Sounds cozy, enjoy it many blessings
I've just got rid of a narcissist..they kept telling me all the things they didn't like about me then asked me not to go...through our silence they will learn
They don't learn. That should not be our goal - to make them learn. Our peace is more important than changing others.
'I hate you don't leave me' situation
@andriyandriychuk yh true....but they come back expecting you to forgive hence the silence.. but I feel ya on that thow..
Of course. Horrible people narcs. And most don't bother to change & get worse with age.
Suggesting of 'not keep it quiet' is tricky. We know that the best way to deal with narcs is estrangement and no contact. So maybe therapist meant 'it is worth standing up for yourself to stop the abuse'. But fighting with a narc doesn't make sense as far as it is a supply for them. So the best way is to leave the situation completely: moving out. If not possible for whatever reasons than communicate as less as you can. Estrangement and no contact really help.
@@andriyandriychuk I communicate as little as possible that’s why my therapist said that
I’m 60, single, alone, no real friends, family doesn’t speak to me. I have multiple untreatable, progressive diseases, and have been permanently disabled since I was 48. I have endured abuse since birth. Trauma, past and present, is overwhelming. I see a therapist (over Zoom) through a local non-profit. Like so many others, she doesn’t have the ability to help someone like me with a long, complicated trauma history. I’m tired of the physical and emotional pain. I can’t imagine another 15-20-25 years of this. I’m tired.
Sending prayers of strength to you. We are always stronger & smarter than we think. Talk to your primary doc or nurse about support groups in the area or even online. There are online support groups for every illness, disease, etc, out there. Join a church, if that is in your belief system. I've been a social worker for low income, disabled, mental health, etc for 25 years and have seen amazing growth in people that have nearly given up. ❤ you got this.
❤
Can you please make a video about things to consider when deciding to start a family when you have a mental illness? I’m quite stable at the moment, I have bpd (quiet), I’m high functioning, my biggest a struggle is with downswings. I’m in a healthy, happy relationship and I’m working fulltime. My partner would love to have a child but supports me either way. I would love to be a mom but I worry about my ability to take care of myself as well as a child without burning myself out. I’m about to turn 30. Thank you for building this wonderful community Kati I really appreciate it 💜🙏🏼
I dont know what country you live in but you might want to consider adoption (hank green did that over a physical issue) he got scared of passing that down
What I am scared about with you being pregnant might make it worse
Since you are stable adopting might be a very good choice and it makes sure you can 100% handle a child
From what it sounds like you should have the abilty to be a mom since you also know what might be triggers
The issue with being pregnant the hormones change and with bpd that means an emotional train wreck it happens with woman without it
Something to consider either way good luck figuring out the best future for you
I suggest trying to adopt from america eventhough the hardest country to adopt from because america became scary and unable to get into the details and 0 other countries this bad
@@ihartevil Thank you! Adopting is def an option for us and we are very passionate about animal welfare and rescue too
I honestly think that decision should be left up to who is going to be the primary caregiver of the child. If they want a child, they need to prepare to be the primary caregiver of the child and that needs to be discussed beforehand...Who's going to wake up in the middle of the night to comfort the baby? Who's going to work? Will there be relief from watching the child when the working parent comes home? What will discipline look like? All of that needs to be discussed beforehand.
I haven't finished the video yet, but on the topic of holding those of us with mental illness accountable. I suffer from BPD and I always tell those close to me about it because splitting is terrible but I always apologize for my actions and try to take corrective steps wherever I can because I believe my mental illness is an *explanation* not an *excuse*. I'm not sure that goes for "All" mental illnesses, but I am a firm believer in that our actions speak louder than words, and there is hope. I love your content. Thank you for making these videos and podcasts they make me feel less alone in this fight. ❤
100% agree. Working on mental health & managing it & if we slip up, which we will because we are human. So apologizing & taking corrective steps afterwards shows accountability.
You are extremely strong & intelligent to be able to recognize your behavior and own it. ❤
People with BPD are often kind and loving, and it's wrong that people think they're manipulative, when really they believe what they're saying, the problem is their brain supply's them with false memories.
I read that if people with BPD are able to form a secure attachment, then they heal from the trauma, that caused the BPD to develop.
The couple of women I met with BPD, I liked them, and I wish they would get effective treatment.
A diagnosis is just a diagnosis, it says nothing about the quality of someone's character.
When it comes to unaliving yourself, it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Often times, it fails. Which has ramifications of its own.
But to say that being in that state is hopeless or even that trying is pointless? Words could never truly capture what it's like.
I can say from my own personal experience that if you sit with it. Just sit with it, don't judge it, don't fight it, don't look away. Eventually, it will begin to fade. In my experience, there was a tiny, whispering voice telling me to keep going. Something I didn't hear until after those thoughts disappeared.
I think it should be fine for those in extreme chronic pain with no cure to be able to choose when the pain ends if they've tried everything. Sometimes there is no easy answer. But the person suffering should have a voice and options available.
🎯 👌 💯
when debating ending my own life it was the uncertainty of not knowing where my life was heading and being able to view them from a perspective of excitement vs fear that kept me going… i am grateful for the decision to keep going everyday.
It's extremely difficult to find even a therapist who understands the topic to the point that they can be helpful.
There's a solid chance you're going to be seen as the one in the wrong.
First time I brought this up with my 2 therapists (team of 3, one in the background) none picked up on what was going on. I myself was still discovering what had happened.
Halfway the number sessions we did I figured it out through self research.
Listen if a situation on paper (I had journaled a ton) suddenly is described to a tee by narcissism as a pathology. Then there isn't much else to say. I had spend hundreds of hours of understanding, comparing and making sure.
They didn't pick up on it even after I told them my findings. Obviously that therapy didn't last.
Another one later on for a more intensive diagnosis proces elsewhere didn't pick up on it either.
I made sure Not to mention narcissism. I simply laid out everything that happened in such a fashion that it's unmistakable. I mean even if I don't do that it's clear.
Nope, they were confused they said.
(I wasn't, I said I was. No lie, I meant I was confused as to why they didn't see it).
And eventually a doctor for disability pay approval suggested to me it may well be a person with bpd you suffered from. (!) She had not even all the info. And did not mention any of that myself. I mean yes plenty hints but not the name of it, much less than the therapists had.
So I said I suspect narcissism instead (often times the effects are similair of bpd or npd abuse anyway). She understood and said she believed me fully. A doctor not a psychologist. I mean sure she had some knowledge but well doctor first.
Yes I got it approved real quick after. And yes it was mostly based on said abuse, the aftermath of it. I'm pretty badly mauled by it.
My point is though, be careful. This topic is woefully understudied in the psychology field. Don't let ignorant therapists get to you. Stay strong :)
I tried to see if there was any change with my family yesterday. I want to see my dad since he has been fighting for his life but as soon as I asserted boundaries and refused to receive the lies from my mother about what happened 2 years ago she sent my older brother after me. After almost 2 years they are both blocked again. I’m so tired and can’t understand them at all but I’ve built a beautiful life with God and have peace and genuine support. I’ve cried today and couldn’t complete the goals I had for the afternoon but getting back up and going forward. It was a blessing to be released from this family. She even wanted to go to counseling but I know better I would never be in k to go to counseling apart from a trained narcissistic counselor. I got on here hoping to hear some encouragement
My mom is a narcissist. I am 53 with 3 grown boys. She has turned them all against me. She tells lies and makes things worse. What can I do to get my boys to see what is truly going on? I am not allowed to see my 2 grandsons by my oldest son and his wife.
Oh my god I’m so sorry that sounds awful :( I hope you get your boys back ❤️🩹❤️🩹
Start by not letting your mom bait you into reacting. That ends today.
1. Pause.
2. Observe, not absorb.
3. If someone is really a narcissist probably detach, separate, disentangle from them. Estrangement, no contact.
All that should be discussed with a professional therapist.
I have gone no contact for several months now. How do I get my boys back? They are 18, 23, and 27.
@@rhondaledford7752 I am so sorry for you. I am no expert but maybe you can reach out to one of them first (maybe there is one who is more "on your side"?). Or ask them to meet you to talk about it. Maybe there is a family member that can be "neutral" like your husband if you have one or maybe siblings of yours if you have one or more. I think it would be important to have someone neutral if possible because they can "guide" the situation and then it also depends on what your mother is saying and how you react because often people like that want to get you to a certain reaction to "prove their point"
Hi Kati, thank you for your invaluable insight and for sharing so much with us on TH-cam. Your videos resonate with me and provide comfort and insight when I'm struggling. I have cptsd, BPD, anxiety and depression, and your thoughts on just mental health in general, or even to those specific types of illnesses have helped me cope and understand a lot about myself, and have helped free me of life sapping negative feelings, thank you!
Hi Katie! Can you please do a video on how to cope with current news especially focusing on the election? Like not making it political or anything, but just the stress of seeing this news everywhere and hate on both sides is leaving me with severe anxiety and panic attacks.
Edit: I wrote my comment before watching the video. I do agree that suicide is inherently selfish in the way you describe. But childbirth is largely selfish as well and people usually don't get too much flak for making _that_ selfish decision.
Want to know what's a selfish act? Creating actual human life in a world full of suffering just because it's an item on someone's bucket list and a societal expectation. I see suicide as a drastic, tragic act of boundary setting. I know that's morbid, but we don't owe anybody life.
I've heard suicide called "the coward's way out," but I think that's highly dismissive of the degree of anguish that can accompany mental illness.
3:02 idk chalking up suicidal wishes as being pathological, cognitive distortion etc. I think is pathological, say you have someone who is full of gratitude for the life they’ve had but has been met with profound suffering from oppression leading to destruction of lifelong hardwork and to round it off, iatrogenic psychological damage by therapist, there’s only so much resilience. And if you don’t have a partner nor kids and just tired, oh wait you’re talking about me 5:05 but yeah, life isn’t fair and not discrediting that but if you’re looking forward to the next phase of existence then support them like in holland where they recently (?) have allowed non terminally ill people to have assisted suicide. 11:31 omg funk a duck!! I had no idea that was gonna be spoken about as I wrote above.
We never can walk in another’s shoes. We live in a society that rewards narcissistic behavior and you’re not able to learn how to “behave” to fit in narcissistic organizational culture and even your therapist (from the same organization) isn’t helping you learn but once out of the job then a 180 change with confusingly making assessments and judgements without explaining (and oddly oblivious to her own negative behaviors demonstrated consistently). I no longer have that therapist but had I continued and kept rationalizing that it’s me and I’m self unaware and never will be based on her observations as working with her for years, I probably wouldn’t be alive to compose this and I’m sure the former employer would’ve loved that. Her assessments were rebuked by new therapists but still I question the new ones as the previous one I had the longest (regardless of conflict of interest). Rant over.
Katie you’re a gem. I appreciate your people pleasing that has helped the masses and validated many who have been invalidated even by mental health professionals. I’ve no idea where you find the time to balance this with Katie time. I’ve tons of compassion for your rock and a hard place. Though my former therapist ensured that I understand that I’m not special nor owed equal rights, I firmly believe that you are special in the most positive way!
I feel it's important to mention, that in Australia, I have never had to wait more than 2 months for the first appointment to seea psychologist or psychiatrist. And I don't even have insurance. Even without insurance, it's still cheaper than in the U.S.
The question about pain is so nice and right to the heart. But the thing is dear it gets better sometimes and then on those moment when clouds go away life is precious . I totally understand when clouds of chronic pain are there it feels so sad so lonely so bad. I give myself a message that wait for tomorrow .i also add that it is essential to give physical movements even very slow and keep on moving on. The more stop doing the more get worse. I have even gone to my usual comfortable space to do the work I need to do even after hospital visits . I find resilience and moving on are really important
It’s different for everyone, I guess. I suffer from both dysthymia and chronic depression on top of that. On my ‘better’ days, the chronic depression lifts, but the dysthymia remains. Life never feels ‘precious’ to me. Been in therapy for the last decade and a half or so, and nothing has worked (meds, schema, cbt, emdr). Sometimes therapy actually has had the opposite effect and made things worse.
I live in the Netherlands and we have some pretty progressive laws regarding euthanasia for sufferers of mental disease. As soon as I meet the criteria, I’m out of here.
I journal regularly and sometimes I share some of the journal entries with someone, but most entries are only for me. Also (and I don't know if being dislexic has anything to do with it), in the beginning I used to talk to myself in the car when I am alone. Just hearing myself speak helped understand myself better. It helped posing questions to self and to attempt to answer and see if the answers made any sense. Maybe this sounds like I have a split personality, but I don't think so. It's just helping to organize thoughts instead of feeling thoughts as bits and shards that are hard to put together to make total sense. I guess what I am trying to say is writing out and voicing out turns feelings into thoughts for me, brings subconscious into the light to be interpreted into words from the language of feelings and emotions. Like, for example I'd ask myself why do I feel so angry about what my sister said. What I think she is implying... etc. and then I would try to answer and I can even "argue", or be a devil's advocate with myself to see if I could be wrong or if my theories don't hold very well
So excited to listen to this episode. Thank you Kati!
I have a sister who's a narcissistic, bipolar, drug abuser and I don't know what to do anymore. I'm so fed up with this situation, all my family is. I'm going to move abroad to escape from this situation because I can't live like this anymore. It has been 10 years of abuse and I want to live my life. I'm 22 now, and I want my life back. Do you think I'm making the right choice? My psychologist says this is the only way even though I feel guilty because it feels like abandon the rest of my family
I live in constant pain and have done the last 15 years and since the pandemic the NHS seems to not be treating anyone who has a higher bmi than 35. I’m 34 I’ve been told I need a double knee replacement as I have osteoarthritis, I’ve been told flat out that they’ll let me become disabled unless I lose just over 100lbs. I totally understand why people with chronic illnesses would pick euthanasia, I think about it often but I like to think that at some point I’ll be able to get my illnesses managed.
After reading the comments of this and other episodes, I’m coming to the feeling, or actually realization that I should no longer support this channel. There are certain people and posters along the way here that seem to be taking blame the parent side of things. The DSM says if it a disorder is not better explained by another… Yet we are held to the same standards as every American Joe. I had Past where my parents maybe missed a few things, but I am not blaming them. My father is still alive my mother deceased. I am not trying to blame them for things they no longer can change. Why are we all to the same standards?
End one’s life should be one’s choice esp as things in this world will not change as it’s built by design to be this way. I feel as someone who is black and because I can’t change it and all that comes with it should be my choice esp when you mix in mental health, physical decline that amps those mental health issues and just poverty.
I know it’s a hard as hell subject but sadly no matter how much I may try I feel ending would be the safer route as I can’t trust society to help me and I deserve dignity.
I have some kind of thoughts all the time, but I don’t like therapy. I didn’t never been in there before.
I think the last point there in your video is touching on shame. Isolation and not talking about the abuse she experienced from her mother can create more distorted feelings/thoughts about themselves and the experience. I think somewhere the person asking the question might have perceived the therapist was coming from a sort of "victim-blamming" place. Obviously, being the child in the relationship there, or even as an adult living under the authoritative parents, the child is never at fault for the abuse they experience from their caregivers. Healing from that though is of course, and somewhat unfortunately, the responsibility of the abused. You can have every right notion to fix the things in the household, but I would not say it is your responsibility to change those people who have abused you, in fact I think that is a road of pain in itself. Just my two cents on that final point!
What about something so simple as a conversation? They don’t say anything they just walk away. Doesn’t even give you a chance. Do you know what they are upset about? Probably not I’m guessing
Yay a great video
Not All of us at Katie’s parents. What about the middle one who hid in a closet just to see how long it would take for someone to notice…
Don’t forget about the youngest …. The one who took up the spotlight
Minutes 20:37. This is damage caused by too many participation surveys? The writer knew and understood that it’s a fake patting on the top of the head “ good job sport, way to go”
While I don't think su*cide is to be encouraged and is rarely an option, I wouldn't necessarily label it as a "selfish" act. If so, it's just as selfish to force someone to live. None of us were asked to be born... But with that said, I would never encourage anyone to k*ll themselves no matter of circumstance. I think we should be empathetic towards people who choose to end things like that. Not blaming them. I'm close to someone who ended it like that but I would never be angry with them for their choice. Sometimes I wished I could've done more and I wish I knew more about their su*cidal thoughts as well... But in the end, they weren't selfish and I did nothing wrong either. Miss them very much though....
Amazing content Kati!!! Thank you!!
You're so welcome!
Hi. Please help me. I'm going through a strange situation after an emotional shock. I can't explain my situation. I have been like this from past 9 months. I don't know what happened to me. Please help. I don't feel to do anything. I don't take baths and dont change clothes.
May be depression. Can you reach a doctor?
I have a question,
What does it say about narcissist when one of them looks up to the other narcissist?
I know two narcissists and one of them (mr. A) is telling people, even his family members that he looks up the other one and I’m like what is this about ?
Because (Mr. B) the one he looks up to used to tell people that he could not stand Mr. A, that now is looking up to him.
He thought that he was pathetic. Because he talked to the flying monkeys about his the past abuse he suffered in his childhood.
He was really mad about that.
But Mr. A and B. Have caused people around me a lot of harm.
Mr. A more than Mr. B in a way.
They now even share e few of the same flying monkeys.
Thank you, Kitty 😺.
Whenever I see your name, it recalls me a kitten. 😺😹😸
I agree with you about physician assisted suicide
I think it’s wildly inappropriate to point the finger at an abuse victim like they’re doing something wrong
The 3 steps forward 2 steps back seems to be working
This time the baby said be right back and went to the bathroom alone but since he cant wipe yet or not trusted to my mom sort of talks to him to soon so he isnt fully using the toilet but less trauma this way
At least she lets him go alone at least this time
Dear Kati, I love your videos, but I have a question. Or maybe it's a suggestion. Or maybe it's even a sort of request. My problem is this: some of the video content, some answers are completely irrelevant to me (still interesting to hear of course, but not useful for myself or someone I know who might benefit from hearing it) and others are very much relevant to me or someone I'd want to share the video with.
Would it be possible to break the video into several smaller ones. Like a video per question. Or at least put in the "time stamps" breaking the video down, so I can go to the topic of interest to me or whomever I want to share your advice with?
This way I can share your videos and add, start at xx:xx and end at yy:yy
Thank you
Not sure if you've noticed or not, but time stamps are in the description.
It's Daniel Larsen isn't it. Gotta be.
kisha mumpe abaya dso
Yea, I tried standing up for myself. Doesn’t work. Never does. She’s the narcissist. I don’t have the money. It sounds like my therapist doesn’t understand that I can’t do anything. Sounds like he doesn’t understand how to deal with narcissistic people as an adult child who can’t move out @katimorton
Is there any small thing you can do to separate yourself from this person?
Dr ramani her channel is a goldmine. I think her content may help you.
As for therapists, most seem not to understand the topic. It's not you, you hear. It's not your fault.
I have lived almost two years kind of stuck in the same position. Where I knew what I was dealing with, but couldn't move out.
It's really tough and I wish you all the strenght and all the best.
I don't dare give advice because well it's such a sensitive situation. Sorry I can't be more helpful.
@@Wimpiethe3 oh my gosh, I love her
@@andriyandriychuk well I don’t have a car and am physically disabled, so I only go where someone can take me or I can get a Lyft. I am at college
@@Wimpiethe3 yea I wish they knew that it’s not like we’re choosing to be in the situation we’re in. We’re just in it
Minutes 20:37. This is damage caused by too many participation surveys? The writer knew and understood that it’s a fake patting on the top of the head “ good job sport, way to go”