I still ride my Peugeot PX10 from 1971, have 1/2 million kilometers on it still going strong. I have modernised the drive train to accommodate my older legs, only 600g heavier than a carbon frame I looked at in a bicycle shop.
I do not ride the tubbies any more, too much glass and such on the road. I sold the wheels to a collector last year, but they were in as good a condition as the day I bought them.@@yukiko_5051
I love the straight lines and narrow tubes on the steel framesets. I’m building up a mid 2000s Cannondale CAAD 7 aluminum right now. It’s got a similar profile.
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Not all of them! However if you have for example additional weak points (internal storage) in the frame or some aerodynamics (excessive shapes to differentiate the design), yes they will look bloated. When you see curved top tubes, you are looking right in the eye of the engineering nonsense orkan. It is similar with the car industrie: 99% of it is for the looks.
Hello Brian I love my Ritchey Swiss Cross Canti! Some day I will do a bike profile on it. Only complaint is the front brake shudder but other than that it is truly a very versatile bike!! Thanks for watching. Please consider subscribing.
My main steel fixed gear commuting bike is 16 pounds. If you drop all the geared crap parts you can get down to near UCI weight limits on steel, and it rides a lot better too.
disagree. And I have frames built from every material. My geared bikes are 14, 15, 15.6. and 17 pounds respectively and all of them are faster on my course than a fixed bike.
@@Shadowboost If you own frames with every material you have weak legs. Once you get to to around cat 5 speeds commuting on fixed high quality steel there really wouldn't be a need for much else
@@Shadowboost You don't have any all steel comfortable 16 pound bikes though. They are all probably headed for the landfill if you actually rode them or you're some kind of dwarfv riding small frames 🦐
Intetrsting because I have a M Ritchey Ultra frame that I built up with the Ritchey carbon boost fork and full XT.Comes in at under 25 lbs but I didn't think the frame was light upon first impression. Years ago I had a 853 Strong frame that I thought was pretty light and very well made..
My mountain bike in the late 90s weighed 22 1/2 pounds. It was a steel Fat Chance Yo Eddy with Aluminum wheels, Stem, Seatpost and 2" tires. I did run Frog ti pedals and titanium rail saddles. Also, it had a SID fork, was even lighter with the rigid steel fork.
My aluminum fuel ex9 2008 weighs less than a pound more than my carbon 2020 top fuel... A lot of the weight savings from carbon lost to dropper post and 29in vs 26in wheels. :)
Nice looking Ritchey (classic steel) George. 105 mechanical group set is available with 12 speed. all three of my bikes are mechanical never had an issue with shifting, riding for over twenty years. first like
@@SeeYouUpTheRoadShimano messed up by not offering rim brakes with their new 105 12 speed groupset. It may be mechanical, but only disc brake. Not to mention the shift/brake levers still look tacky and cheap.
At 62 years old and probably a stone overweight (14 lb) still very fit. My steel bike weighs 23 lb. Why buy a di2 disc carbon bike for£1000s to save a couple of lb. Ride what you have. Top video v
To be fair, is the carbon frame alone lighter? Disc brakes add 1 lb. And Ultegra Di2 is heavier and also almost a pound heavier than equivalent dura ace.
You can drill down in the details like that but the complete bike is what the two different riders would be riding. The point of the video is that with all the claims that the bike 🚴 industry technology has made leaps and bounds and that everything is much better than it ever was if we use weight as a metric we have gone back 25 years!
A week ago I have built 59 cm track bike with aluminum rims, aluminum stem, heavyweight steel NJS handlebars, heavy San Marco Rolls saddle, heavy 53-tooth plate without weight relief cutouts and the bike weighs 7650 grams. Lighter than 56 cm all carbon fiber all Dura Ace 9270 Trek Madone of my boss at the work place. Bike industry, you're drunk, go home.
My aluminum Jamis Ventura from 2009 isn't anymore than 3-4lbs heavier, was $125 USD used, with sora group set, and FSA tempo crank set. This is light enough for me. Everybody ran out and bought the latest DI2, carbon bikes with disc brakes, internal cables routed through the headsets and the bottom bracket, and there are so many ridiculous deals right now on used road bikes.
Great info George.. I’m no weight weenie either as I’m only 62kg anyway but my Condor Acciaio still steel Columbus spirit frame bike with ally camp shamal wheels and campy chorus mechanical weighs in at 7.8kg rim brake with pedals etc my CAAD10 ally frame weighs the same, supersix evo carbon with carbon shamal wheels 2021 weights 7.6 so nothing in it and the ride is best on my steel bike which I now ride all the time for everything it’s brilliant.. steel rules 😊😊 may even sell the SSE 👍👍😃🚴🏻Pete
You have validated my point very well! The ride quality is the most important criteria in choosing a frame. But it’s nice when built out it’s not a pig 🐷 😂
Hey George, watched your video on the HED Ard/black wheel. do you have those wheels in stock? I currently have the regular HED wheel. Thanks Tony Dana Point
Hello Tony thanks for the message. Please send me an email to revcycling@gmail.com Many times it can be months before I see a comment on a video especially an old video
some heavy ass bikes there... that R5 frame filled with water? my aero bike is a 58cm madone slr with 55 wheels w 30mm tires, pedals, tail light and computer is 7.385g fully laden.
My Kinesis titanium GTD which I built myself is 8.3kg It’s Sram force 1 x mechanical 12 speed with ethirteen 9-50t cassette 50mm DTswiss / Vel carbon wheels with Sram force discs Carbon seatpost - carbon selle italia seatpost Carbon pro vibe aero handlebars and aluminium stem If it was not for the disc brakes then it would be much lighter. I could get the bike lighter if I put loads more money into it, but the bike was expensive enough with the spec I’ve used
Is there a difference in ride quality? I would hope that if I bought a new bike that it would have something that’s better than my 13 year old Specialized Roubaix SL3. I get the itch to get something new but realize to get even close to the same weight as my current bike, I’d need to spend $10K… and Gawd I’d hope there’d be at least ONE good thing about it
Unfortunately, ride quality is getting worse in newer bikes. They keep trying to make the bikes “stiffer and lighter than last year” then the move to disc brakes made the bikes stiffer in the fork and chain stays. So no bikes are not getting better ride quality. But hey not you can ride 32mm tires so there’s that 😉
My lightest bike is a 2015 emonda sl carbon with ultegra 6800, aluminum rims and rim brakes. But it's a size 64. It weighs 18lbs. I also have an aluminum Trek Crossrip 3 with 105, disc brakes that's I think 22.x lbs (size 61). My newest bike, which is the only one I'm riding now, is a Diverge Pro Carbon with disc brakes, sram force with mtb rear, 1x, carbon wheels, future shock, a compartment in the down tube, 40mm tires, size 61. I think it weighs 22 or 23lbs. What's a light bike? The diverge is weighed down by features and size. If they could somehow make the same bike in steel, it would weigh more, but the delta on frame weight isn't necessarily huge all else being equal.
Size 64 bike - I wonder if you have seen Connor Dunn on GCN riding an alternate wheel size. He did some gravel or sand event. The wheels were larger than 700. GCN also just released a video with a new wheel size of 700D
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Yes, I've seen that video and heard about the new wheel size. I think it's 750d, though. It would make the bike like more proportionate, but I'm not sure whether I'd like it or not in other ways.
@@donbarnard82 I’ve known a lot of riders over 6’5” over 195 cm like you said the bike would look more proportionate with a larger wheel size. Thanks for watching!
If you get a solid enough carbon frame the bike, it will be in the 8kg bull-park. However the same quality steel frame will plain and simply be more expensive. Manufacturing a good steel frame requires apparently far more manual labour.
My road Logic with nothing special except a 1x setup, 18.3lbs. With spd es600 pedals, smp gel saddle, Ksyrium Wheels, bottle cages. Some room to reduce weight further but I m not sure I would really feel it. To get same weight with a 2023 cf disk bike, it would cost a lot more! And not sure you would get the lively feeling of the Roadlogic. Funny to here people tell me steel is outdated.
It truly amazes me that people look down their nose at us and a steel rim brake bike and somehow feel sorry for us or think we are riding old, ineffective, uncomfortable, underperforming and heavy equipment because we don’t know any better. It’s because I’ve owned, test ridden, and raced so many modern and latest and greatest carbon bikes that I choose to ride a steel bike and a Ritchey in particular.
@@mathieublandin5231 and that would be an interesting survey - the percentage of steel vs carbon vs Ti vs Aluminum. I even saw a couple Bamboo bikes! 😂
Fast survey, on the 6 finishers I know including you and Lori, 4 steel bikes with rim brakes and 2 cf and disk. Not sure sample is big enough to be fully representative. I saw also a Brompton and a Fatbike🙄. Pbp must not be hard enough😂
My 53 cm Ritchey Road Logic rim brake bike (50th Anniversary Edition), which has a Campagnolo Chorus 12 speed mechanical groupset, alloy wheels with 28 mm tires, and alloy stem, handlebars, and seatpost, weighs in at 17.6 lbs. If I really wanted to weight weenie it, I could probably trim down the excess seatpost inside the seatube, get a carbon post and bars, or get some of those HED hoops like you have on yours. But I don't really feel the need.
My 17-year-old road bike weighs just under 18 lbs. In my Tris, I can, and do, outclimb everyone. On the straights and downhills, I get toasted. I think modern integral cabling and other aero considerations negate the weight savings. In other words, the newer bike may be heavier, but on average, they're still faster.. When I say toasted, I mean these guys are flying past me, and it's not an effort thing, because I pass almost all of them in the run.
@@chriswright9096 plenty. It's called the Chung test. Slowtwitch also did a bunch of crowdfunded testing and could find differences even between different superbikes.
Thats amazing actually. I was thinking 20 pounds. And that’s with pedals, bottle cages, and computer mount.. would like to see the weight without all that as well. Q: the SQ Lab 612 saddle- are those carbon rails or alloy? Beautiful David
Hello David yes I could make the overall bike a little lighter with higher spec components but that’s not the point of riding a steel bike. This bike can get under 17 pounds (7.7 kg) but again weight is a non-issue with bikes in general especially for people that live in the flat parts of this country or the world. The 612 Ergowave on this bike has carbon rails. I don’t consider it a race day only saddle. I ran over this saddle with my minivan, by accident of course. So it’s not delicate at all and I’ve put thousands and thousands of miles on it.
You have a heavier frame with lighter components. Dura ace rim brakes v Ultegra disc, not surprising that your bike is lighter. My 60cm Emonda is 1 pound lighter than your Ritchey though and personally I really like e-shifting and disc brakes. Disc brakes only because I also like carbon rims. That's a clean looking bike you have George, I'd be proud to own that one!
AND THE BELL TOO??!! man.. I love it. You need to post a weight without all the accessories (what the bike manufacturers like to post as the weight). Maybe a tad under 17??
Exactly my point! Instead of being able to buy a Dura-Ace rim brake bike you are being forced to buy an Ultegra disc brake bike or actually 105 Di2 Disc brake bike for the same money you used to be able to buy a Dura-Ace rim brake bike - oh but you can’t anymore because somehow people have been fooled to believe that disc brakes are better which they are not
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad forget about same money...you can't even get Dura-Ace or Ultegra in mech/rim brake now! Campy is the last stand for a high end mech + rim groupo
I just reread your comment. I think maybe the readings on the scale are causing confusion. There are 16 ounces in a pound hence, 8 ounces is a 1/2 a pound. The scale reading of 18.08 can throw you off thinking it is .08 or less than 1. This scale does not read in decimal readings. When this scale reads 18.10 that means 18 pounds and 10 ounce (and then 6 more ounces would be a pound) I hope this helps.
Dood...you just came back from France and you're measuring in pounds and ounces 🤦 Blame it on the jet lag? Just giving you crap since I know you're pro-metric 👍😄 Thank you for putting the truth out there about quality steel bikes!
Ha ha! Yes, I love the metric system. Unfortunately, the US failed in adopting it about 50 years ago. They should’ve done done it cold turkey starting with the next generation of kids in school. Sadly, we’re stuck with the imperial system. However, as a general rule, I usually weigh components and individual parts in grams and then weigh complete bikes in pounds And ounces however, in the end, this is not weight weenie video This is a video showing that even with all the progress that the bike industry tries to promote we went backwards 25 years in the weight of bicycles.
There is also another weight issue with modern carbon bikes in how some of them are advertised. On a website it may be listed, say, at 8.25 kg, but the actual weight is 9 kg! Not that this discrepancy matters much, but a representative, when asked, might start explaining that with some sterile conditions, no pedals, and god know what else (i.e., no tubes lol). Unfortunately, the weight difference might not add up should one account for those things. The fact itself that such brands can’t stand behind their claims is really concerning.
That game has been going on for a long time. Like frame weights used to be claimed without derailleur hangers bottle cage bolts and some even unpainted WTF!
Pretty much everyone is aware that steel bikes can be light. This is not news. Weird that you think it is. I’ll take a stiff carbon bike any day in an adult size. Not all of us are little guys.
Unfortunately this lady who is much lighter than I am and not a strong cyclist is saddles by a much heavier bike than she should be riding proportionate to her weight. She weighs 110 lbs dripping wet. Also she was told that disc brakes would be better and now she regrets owning a bike with disc brakes. Every time she comes in we are replacing either brake pads or rotors or both. We live in a very hilly area of San Diego. She had no idea how expensive it was going to be to maintain a disc brake bike 🥲
As an engineer in the automotive industry myself, I do agree that the cycling industry is a pretty big mess when it comes to quality engineering. I also think that weight is the most overrated and stupidest indicator of bike performance ever used...
You are correct and I 100% agree with you. In fact, I don’t even think about weight but as a TH-camr I know it’s a trigger and it gets a great amount of discussion in the comments. Personally, ride quality is my number 1 criteria in choosing a bike to ride. Furthermore, to add to your point, weight does not determine a bike’s performance at all
@georgevargas7351 I get your point. Weight is a pretty low hanging fruit not only for youtubers but also for the manufacturers to get attention. But I think this only emphasises the fact that the overblown marketing and the rubbish engineering of cycling companies are only one side of the medal. The other side are the customers themselves, who often times boost questionable engineering choices and marketing hypes with superficial knowledge and superstition.
Weight does not matter for all non pro riders, you’re right. But for the pros, why do you see them pour out half their water when climbing to a mountain top finish? I ride both a heavy bike and a light bike and there is a noticeable difference.
@@tonyt8804 for most of them pouring out half a bottle is in their head. Drinking that half a bottle and having those fluids and calories in them would do more for their performance then pouring it out 😂
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad You are only partially right. I agree that at some point it's good enough. Somewhere below around 8kg all the weight loss comes at the prize of feeble underperforming components which will negate the benefits. However I agree that definitively the reasonable weight can be achieved by other materials than carbon.
The best example of engineering nonsense are deep carbon wheels, which weight more than slim aluminium ones. Why on earth doesn't anyone use styrofoam profiles on alu rims to provide the deep profile for aerodynamics? It would be overall far lighter than for example 50mm deep carbon.
The HED Jet wheels I ride and sell to my customers are an alloy rim with a carbon hollow fairing bonded to the rim. I think it’s the best of both worlds durability of an alloy rim, a textured brake track for better braking than a standard alloy rim, standard rubber brake pads and deep fairing of 46mm or 60mm and no faffing about looking for special carbon specific brake pads or poor braking in the wet. The weight isn’t overall light but they’re not heavy either.
When the rider’s body makes up over 80%-85% of the drag there’s only a tiny bit left for bike frame and wheels. At speeds under 40km the frame is not moving the needle. And this rider in particular rarely hits speeds over 18 mph (30kmh) on the flats.
thankfully good folks like you are out there to tell people frame material, geo, tire clearance, and brake type matter so much more to the riding experience than weight.
Thank You Michael! I talk about the ride quality of steel to my customers and I often hear “…but it’s heavy” 😊 it’s ok when I ride my steel bikes I look over at someone on a carbon bike and think I know a little secret they don’t lol 😂
I would have some doubts about the weight since steel weighs more than 5 times carbon. In any case, even if it were true, the lightness of a frame is a second quality to the main one: stiffness! Steel flexes three times more than carbon on an equal weight basis. So that frame will be a rubber band suitable for tourist walks, certainly not for competitive activities. it will be terrible for power transmission and driving responsiveness with a steering box and a bottom bracket that go everywhere!!!
Its the shape (mainly diameter) of the tube that contributes most to stiffness. When aluminum took over from steel, it was common for people to say that aluminum is stiffer than steel. In fact steel is much stiffer. But aluminum is one third the weight, so you could use a greater volume of material and make a wider tube and thus a stiffer frame. High end (TdF) steel bikes of the 80s certainly weighed in at about 18lbs (I remember this well). You make a valid point about the relative stiffness of modern carbon frames though. The thing is, even cheaper carbon frames are stiff, which means manufacturers have moved on to phoney marketing about aerodynamics and 'compliance' and components (eg saying disc brakes are an improvement over rim). I actually think bikes got as good as they can be about 10 years ago. Everything since has been hype.
Scales don’t lie people do. A Ritchey Road Logic weighs about 1700 grams let’s say the Cervelo R3 Disc frame is about 1000 grams how does your math make any sense at a steel bike weighing 5X more? Stiffness is not want you want in a frame 😂 Dude have you ridden a modern steel bike lately? Your wild ass claims about rubber band and flexing and blah blah are so completely off the mark. If I put you on this bike and you rode it you wouldn’t even know that you were on a steel frame under load on 20% grades or max sprint efforts. How old are you? Have you ridden a modern steel frame? You sound like the latest generation of bike industry marketing pundits that have been brainwashed to think steel is heavy, flexes and that carbon stiffness is actually a good quality in a frame.
Lastly, ride quality is the most important criteria in choosing a frame not stiffness. Get your head out of the bike industry marketing hype and learn more about real bikes and how to ride them.
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad but steel is heavy (carbon frames now coming in at under 700 grams for aero frames), it is flexy (absolutely is, compared to modern carbon bikes), and carbon stiffness (in the right directions) is absolutely a good quality in a frame (love the razor sharp handling and response plus the stability of the bottom bracket (almost double the width of steel tubes).
4:34... 'it also doesn't mean it's going to perform better' Nor does it mean a couple of pounds here or there is going to make a bike perform worse. Everyone seems to blame the 'bike industry' but it seems the biggest culprits are youtubers who spend so much time trying to play bikes off against each other. Cut through the BS of x is better than y. Here's a radical idea... Buy a bike you like and ride it.
Here’s a radical idea that’s what I do. That’s why I ride and prefer to ride steel bikes when the industry and TH-camrs as you say tell me that’s it’s heavy it’s outdated and it can’t ride better than carbon. I ride bikes I want to ride not bikes the industry wants me to believe I should ride. This is NOT a video exclusively about weight, albeit it’s what got you to watch it in the first and allow you to get to know me. Like and subscribe and stick around you’ll see I’m not your typical TH-camr.
@@SeeYouUpTheRoadhaha I can understand how you may have felt how that was directed specifically at you, it wasn't nor was it my intention. It's just frustrating when more and more content creators and, as an extention commenters, seem to gripe over rim vs disc, steel v carbon, electric v mech etc. If more time was spent on riding and enjoying your bike (whatever brand, material, colour etc) it is I can guarantee (well I can't but ssssh) your life will be a whole lot better than worrying wether or not your tubes are light enough, unless you have gone tubeless! Anyway, keep doing what you're doing and I am sure I will keep watching 😅
@@DS-um9hi Thank You D S i appreciate the follow up. As far as TH-cam it’s about clicks and views. I’m guilty of it myself from time to time. I would like an alternate source of income. Especially during the months that the shop is nearly dead (October - March) Lastly, you know or should know that I ride. You can follow me on Strava. I’m not just a TH-camr 😂 You can follow me on Strava: www.strava.com/athletes/5473
Not true whatsoever! You weigh parts and components in grams you weigh complete bikes in pounds. Furthermore, the only reason they (the bike industry that lies to you) started using kilograms is because disc brake bikes were getting so heavy. It was embarrassing for them to post 20 pounds, 21 pounds, 22 pounds total weight so they switched over to kilograms because visually it’s a smaller number and again the bike industry trying to deceive you Thanks for watching though
The American still uses Fahrenheit, inches, miles, pounds, ounces and etc. They just have not converted to the decimal system. But anyway, all are just measurement units; nothing wrong with using pounds and ounces.
I still ride my Peugeot PX10 from 1971, have 1/2 million kilometers on it still going strong. I have modernised the drive train to accommodate my older legs, only 600g heavier than a carbon frame I looked at in a bicycle shop.
How's the wheel? Is the rim still in good condition?
I do not ride the tubbies any more, too much glass and such on the road. I sold the wheels to a collector last year, but they were in as good a condition as the day I bought them.@@yukiko_5051
Wow that’s crazy! My oldest bike is from 1987 you have me beat by a lot 😂
I love the straight lines and narrow tubes on the steel framesets. I’m building up a mid 2000s Cannondale CAAD 7 aluminum right now. It’s got a similar profile.
Yep carbon frames look bloated 😂
@@SeeYouUpTheRoadyou mean big-boned 🤨🙃
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Not all of them! However if you have for example additional weak points (internal storage) in the frame or some aerodynamics (excessive shapes to differentiate the design), yes they will look bloated. When you see curved top tubes, you are looking right in the eye of the engineering nonsense orkan. It is similar with the car industrie: 99% of it is for the looks.
I’ll be buried with my Ritchey Swiss Cross. Most versatile bike I’ve ever owned. Timeless 👌
Hello Brian I love my Ritchey Swiss Cross Canti! Some day I will do a bike profile on it. Only complaint is the front brake shudder but other than that it is truly a very versatile bike!!
Thanks for watching. Please consider subscribing.
I could be wrong, but I think most of the cycling industry media have stopped weighing pro bikes. I wonder why 🙄
Ha ha yep they have 😂
plus your bike is easier to service and maintain than the bling one
Indeed! External cabling and rim brake so much easier thanks for watching please consider subscribing
@@SeeYouUpTheRoadalready did a while back. 🙂
Thank you George for your honesty. Finally someone had to say it. Beautiful Ritchey btw and perfect set up
Ha ha I just get so tired hearing how awesome all the new tech is supposed to be and yet it isn’t at all
My main steel fixed gear commuting bike is 16 pounds. If you drop all the geared crap parts you can get down to near UCI weight limits on steel, and it rides a lot better too.
Niiice! I can do a conversion someday. My fixed gear is also steel but it has a steel fork so it’s a bit heavy overall
disagree. And I have frames built from every material. My geared bikes are 14, 15, 15.6. and 17 pounds respectively and all of them are faster on my course than a fixed bike.
@@Shadowboost If you own frames with every material you have weak legs. Once you get to to around cat 5 speeds commuting on fixed high quality steel there really wouldn't be a need for much else
@@Shadowboost You don't have any all steel comfortable 16 pound bikes though. They are all probably headed for the landfill if you actually rode them or you're some kind of dwarfv riding small frames 🦐
@@___Bebo___ correct, i just have far superior carbon frames at much lower weight than that.
Intetrsting because I have a M Ritchey Ultra frame that I built up with the Ritchey carbon boost fork and full XT.Comes in at under 25 lbs but I didn't think the frame was light upon first impression.
Years ago I had a 853 Strong frame that I thought was pretty light and very well made..
Strong frames were on my radar years ago! The Ritchey Ultra and Outback frames are not lightweight frames. I own an Outback so I can say that 😂
My mountain bike in the late 90s weighed 22 1/2 pounds. It was a steel Fat Chance Yo Eddy with Aluminum wheels, Stem, Seatpost and 2" tires. I did run Frog ti pedals and titanium rail saddles. Also, it had a SID fork, was even lighter with the rigid steel fork.
My aluminum fuel ex9 2008 weighs less than a pound more than my carbon 2020 top fuel... A lot of the weight savings from carbon lost to dropper post and 29in vs 26in wheels. :)
Yeah 29’er tires are heavy as sin compared to 26!
Nice looking Ritchey (classic steel) George. 105 mechanical group set is available with 12 speed. all three of my bikes are mechanical never had an issue with shifting, riding for over twenty years. first like
First in! 😂 yep 105 Mechanical will sell well.
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad 105 12 speed mechanical is disc only
@@SeeYouUpTheRoadShimano messed up by not offering rim brakes with their new 105 12 speed groupset. It may be mechanical, but only disc brake.
Not to mention the shift/brake levers still look tacky and cheap.
@@astrayagrarian yes I agree they should have offered rim brake on there new 105 12 speed
@@astrayagrarianhydraulic rim brakes? I think magura made a set
Love that Richey Road Logic!
Ha ha me too!
At 62 years old and probably a stone overweight (14 lb) still very fit. My steel bike weighs 23 lb. Why buy a di2 disc carbon bike for£1000s to save a couple of lb. Ride what you have. Top video v
Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
To be fair, is the carbon frame alone lighter? Disc brakes add 1 lb. And Ultegra Di2 is heavier and also almost a pound heavier than equivalent dura ace.
You can drill down in the details like that but the complete bike is what the two different riders would be riding. The point of the video is that with all the claims that the bike 🚴 industry technology has made leaps and bounds and that everything is much better than it ever was if we use weight as a metric we have gone back 25 years!
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad totally agree. I’m on a rim brake bike with integrated nothing. The industry has solved problems we never had or asked for.
@@itsok2023 I ride a fixed gear bike without any of industry promoted gears and brakes that you spent good money for. Don't need any of that waste.
Something doesn't add if that size 51 is over 8kg's
I know right? But that’s the wonderful advancement of disc brake technology that the bike industry is forcing us to buy.
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad My point is that most 51cm disc bikes are well under 8kg's. So there's something wrong with THAT bike.
@@DanTuberdisc brake frames have to be reinforced more to withstand the braking forces.
A week ago I have built 59 cm track bike with aluminum rims, aluminum stem, heavyweight steel NJS handlebars, heavy San Marco Rolls saddle, heavy 53-tooth plate without weight relief cutouts and the bike weighs 7650 grams. Lighter than 56 cm all carbon fiber all Dura Ace 9270 Trek Madone of my boss at the work place. Bike industry, you're drunk, go home.
Drunk with power and greed! 😂
My aluminum Jamis Ventura from 2009 isn't anymore than 3-4lbs heavier, was $125 USD used, with sora group set, and FSA tempo crank set. This is light enough for me. Everybody ran out and bought the latest DI2, carbon bikes with disc brakes, internal cables routed through the headsets and the bottom bracket, and there are so many ridiculous deals right now on used road bikes.
And new ones they can’t sell for $14K being discounted like crazy.
Thanks for watching. Please consider subscribing.
Great info George.. I’m no weight weenie either as I’m only 62kg anyway but my Condor Acciaio still steel Columbus spirit frame bike with ally camp shamal wheels and campy chorus mechanical weighs in at 7.8kg rim brake with pedals etc my CAAD10 ally frame weighs the same, supersix evo carbon with carbon shamal wheels 2021 weights 7.6 so nothing in it and the ride is best on my steel bike which I now ride all the time for everything it’s brilliant.. steel rules 😊😊 may even sell the SSE 👍👍😃🚴🏻Pete
You have validated my point very well! The ride quality is the most important criteria in choosing a frame. But it’s nice when built out it’s not a pig 🐷 😂
2021 supersix evo is with disc brakes. My 2016 is 6.5 kg with powermeter and pedals. And rides better
Hey George, watched your video on the HED Ard/black wheel. do you have those wheels in stock? I currently have the regular HED wheel. Thanks Tony Dana Point
Hello Tony thanks for the message. Please send me an email to revcycling@gmail.com
Many times it can be months before I see a comment on a video especially an old video
Road Disc is silly.
Yep road disc is overkill
some heavy ass bikes there... that R5 frame filled with water? my aero bike is a 58cm madone slr with 55 wheels w 30mm tires, pedals, tail light and computer is 7.385g fully laden.
Ha ha yep 8.4 kg for a carbon bike is quite heavy but 7.9 kg for a steel bike with alloy wheels isn’t 😉
yeah, but those are likely some lw aluminum wheels around 1300g id guess so on par with absolute top of the range 50mm carbons
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad
Great video George. You and that Road Logic have been to hell and back. If you could only keep one bike which one would you?
Yep out of my 9 bikes I would probably pick the Ritchey as the keeper. But don’t make me do it so many other great bikes would have to go 😂
My Kinesis titanium GTD which I built myself is 8.3kg
It’s Sram force 1 x mechanical 12 speed with ethirteen 9-50t cassette
50mm DTswiss / Vel carbon wheels with Sram force discs
Carbon seatpost - carbon selle italia seatpost
Carbon pro vibe aero handlebars and aluminium stem
If it was not for the disc brakes then it would be much lighter.
I could get the bike lighter if I put loads more money into it, but the bike was expensive enough with the spec I’ve used
Wild my 2012 Fuji Altamira with R7000 105 rim brake in a size 58 is lighter than that Cervelo. Even with SPD pedals. Never would have guessed it.
It’s the weight penalty of disc brakes and inexpensive carbon wheels put on the bike just because they were carbon wheels
Is there a difference in ride quality? I would hope that if I bought a new bike that it would have something that’s better than my 13 year old Specialized Roubaix SL3. I get the itch to get something new but realize to get even close to the same weight as my current bike, I’d need to spend $10K… and Gawd I’d hope there’d be at least ONE good thing about it
Unfortunately, ride quality is getting worse in newer bikes. They keep trying to make the bikes “stiffer and lighter than last year” then the move to disc brakes made the bikes stiffer in the fork and chain stays. So no bikes are not getting better ride quality. But hey not you can ride 32mm tires so there’s that 😉
My lightest bike is a 2015 emonda sl carbon with ultegra 6800, aluminum rims and rim brakes. But it's a size 64. It weighs 18lbs. I also have an aluminum Trek Crossrip 3 with 105, disc brakes that's I think 22.x lbs (size 61). My newest bike, which is the only one I'm riding now, is a Diverge Pro Carbon with disc brakes, sram force with mtb rear, 1x, carbon wheels, future shock, a compartment in the down tube, 40mm tires, size 61. I think it weighs 22 or 23lbs. What's a light bike? The diverge is weighed down by features and size. If they could somehow make the same bike in steel, it would weigh more, but the delta on frame weight isn't necessarily huge all else being equal.
Size 64 bike - I wonder if you have seen Connor Dunn on GCN riding an alternate wheel size. He did some gravel or sand event. The wheels were larger than 700. GCN also just released a video with a new wheel size of 700D
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Yes, I've seen that video and heard about the new wheel size. I think it's 750d, though. It would make the bike like more proportionate, but I'm not sure whether I'd like it or not in other ways.
@@donbarnard82 I’ve known a lot of riders over 6’5” over 195 cm like you said the bike would look more proportionate with a larger wheel size. Thanks for watching!
If you get a solid enough carbon frame the bike, it will be in the 8kg bull-park. However the same quality steel frame will plain and simply be more expensive. Manufacturing a good steel frame requires apparently far more manual labour.
Correct
are you going to review Ritchey's newest frame?
I shot a video on the Montebello. Take a look
The bike never made a difference it’s allways the engine.
Not true. At all.
Don’t be a knob
Very true Peter.
Love your content!
Thank you! Have you subscribed yet? What type of content do you like?
steel is real!!
Indeed! Every true self-respecting cyclist should have a high end steel bike in their quiver.
My road Logic with nothing special except a 1x setup, 18.3lbs. With spd es600 pedals, smp gel saddle, Ksyrium Wheels, bottle cages. Some room to reduce weight further but I m not sure I would really feel it. To get same weight with a 2023 cf disk bike, it would cost a lot more! And not sure you would get the lively feeling of the Roadlogic. Funny to here people tell me steel is outdated.
It truly amazes me that people look down their nose at us and a steel rim brake bike and somehow feel sorry for us or think we are riding old, ineffective, uncomfortable, underperforming and heavy equipment because we don’t know any better. It’s because I’ve owned, test ridden, and raced so many modern and latest and greatest carbon bikes that I choose to ride a steel bike and a Ritchey in particular.
Hopefullly, some people know. If there are so many steel bikes on Pbp or long distance events that not for nothing.
@@mathieublandin5231 and that would be an interesting survey - the percentage of steel vs carbon vs Ti vs Aluminum. I even saw a couple Bamboo bikes! 😂
Fast survey, on the 6 finishers I know including you and Lori, 4 steel bikes with rim brakes and 2 cf and disk. Not sure sample is big enough to be fully representative. I saw also a Brompton and a Fatbike🙄. Pbp must not be hard enough😂
@@mathieublandin5231 yes I saw that guy on the Fat Bike a lot. Apparently he did LEL on the Fat Bike too!! 😂
My 53 cm Ritchey Road Logic rim brake bike (50th Anniversary Edition), which has a Campagnolo Chorus 12 speed mechanical groupset, alloy wheels with 28 mm tires, and alloy stem, handlebars, and seatpost, weighs in at 17.6 lbs. If I really wanted to weight weenie it, I could probably trim down the excess seatpost inside the seatube, get a carbon post and bars, or get some of those HED hoops like you have on yours. But I don't really feel the need.
Sounds like a nice build! Congrats on snatching up a 50th Anny frame!
My 17-year-old road bike weighs just under 18 lbs. In my Tris, I can, and do, outclimb everyone. On the straights and downhills, I get toasted. I think modern integral cabling and other aero considerations negate the weight savings. In other words, the newer bike may be heavier, but on average, they're still faster.. When I say toasted, I mean these guys are flying past me, and it's not an effort thing, because I pass almost all of them in the run.
Always more cowbell 😂 thanks for watching please consider subscribing
Seeing slow on downhills could be something to do with positioning on bike. Seems more likely than differences in the bike aerodynamics.
@@chriswright9096 Modern aero is up to 30 Watts faster than old round tubed at descending speeds. It's significant
@@Shadowboost well, that's what the bike industry tells us. But any independent testing to back it up?
@@chriswright9096 plenty. It's called the Chung test. Slowtwitch also did a bunch of crowdfunded testing and could find differences even between different superbikes.
that's a good looking steel bike
Thank You I love Ritchey bikes
Thats amazing actually. I was thinking 20 pounds. And that’s with pedals, bottle cages, and computer mount.. would like to see the weight without all that as well.
Q: the SQ Lab 612 saddle- are those carbon rails or alloy?
Beautiful
David
Hello David yes I could make the overall bike a little lighter with higher spec components but that’s not the point of riding a steel bike. This bike can get under 17 pounds (7.7 kg) but again weight is a non-issue with bikes in general especially for people that live in the flat parts of this country or the world.
The 612 Ergowave on this bike has carbon rails. I don’t consider it a race day only saddle. I ran over this saddle with my minivan, by accident of course. So it’s not delicate at all and I’ve put thousands and thousands of miles on it.
nice
You have a heavier frame with lighter components. Dura ace rim brakes v Ultegra disc, not surprising that your bike is lighter. My 60cm Emonda is 1 pound lighter than your Ritchey though and personally I really like e-shifting and disc brakes. Disc brakes only because I also like carbon rims. That's a clean looking bike you have George, I'd be proud to own that one!
Thank You Doug! Yes my frame is much heavier (over 1700 grams) but lighter on the wallet 😂
AND THE BELL TOO??!! man.. I love it. You need to post a weight without all the accessories (what the bike manufacturers like to post as the weight). Maybe a tad under 17??
Yes I think I’ve had it just under 17 lbs stripped but rideable 😂
Nice bike!
Thank You! Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
Quick conversion for all the metric lovers, divide pounds by 2. So 18.5 would be, umm simples 😂
No, by 2.2
It’s actually 2.20 😊 you can carry it out further to be more precise 2.2046228 🤣🤣
a lot of money for such a heavy bike. better stick to rim brakes and non aero. new bikes are marketing bullshit bikes
Indeed sir! Thank You for watching please consider subscribing!
Steel is real. Carbon fragil and expensive.
Correct
8kg.
Dura ace Rim break vs Ultegra disc break. Not really a comparison.
Exactly my point! Instead of being able to buy a Dura-Ace rim brake bike you are being forced to buy an Ultegra disc brake bike or actually 105 Di2 Disc brake bike for the same money you used to be able to buy a Dura-Ace rim brake bike - oh but you can’t anymore because somehow people have been fooled to believe that disc brakes are better which they are not
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad forget about same money...you can't even get Dura-Ace or Ultegra in mech/rim brake now! Campy is the last stand for a high end mech + rim groupo
Don’t talk crap
2:54 18:08 is nowhere near 18 1/2 pounds. Its basically 18.1 pounds.
I’ll take a look but I weighed it multiple times before in shoot the video. I knew well in advance that the Cervelo was heavier than my steel bike.
2:44 I looked again what you are seeing is the weight fluctuations between 18 lbs 8 ounces and 18 lbs 7 ounces it never gets near 1
I just reread your comment. I think maybe the readings on the scale are causing confusion.
There are 16 ounces in a pound hence, 8 ounces is a 1/2 a pound. The scale reading of 18.08 can throw you off thinking it is .08 or less than 1. This scale does not read in decimal readings. When this scale reads 18.10 that means 18 pounds and 10 ounce (and then 6 more ounces would be a pound)
I hope this helps.
Dood...you just came back from France and you're measuring in pounds and ounces 🤦 Blame it on the jet lag? Just giving you crap since I know you're pro-metric
👍😄
Thank you for putting the truth out there about quality steel bikes!
Ha ha! Yes, I love the metric system. Unfortunately, the US failed in adopting it about 50 years ago. They should’ve done done it cold turkey starting with the next generation of kids in school. Sadly, we’re stuck with the imperial system.
However, as a general rule, I usually weigh components and individual parts in grams and then weigh complete bikes in pounds And ounces however, in the end, this is not weight weenie video This is a video showing that even with all the progress that the bike industry tries to promote we went backwards 25 years in the weight of bicycles.
That bike is heavy and those wheels aren’t especially aero either.
@@boc-tonysyklist2145 “that” bike?
How tf is 18.08 lbs “pretty much 18.5 lbs”.
the ".08" is 8 ounces I believe, as 16 ounces in a pound therefore 0.5 lbs (had to look it up as I don't know imperial weights).
This scale is counting ounces not tenths of a pound. Just look up the Park Tool scale
And 8 ounces is half a pound
You look WAY lighter after your Paris-Brest-Paris epic. 😬
Ha ha about the same 😂 I actually gained a ton of weight during the event.
To all the ones who say weight doesn’t matter you are living in cloud cuckoo land especially going up hill
I love my cloud in cuckoo land 😉
There is also another weight issue with modern carbon bikes in how some of them are advertised. On a website it may be listed, say, at 8.25 kg, but the actual weight is 9 kg! Not that this discrepancy matters much, but a representative, when asked, might start explaining that with some sterile conditions, no pedals, and god know what else (i.e., no tubes lol). Unfortunately, the weight difference might not add up should one account for those things. The fact itself that such brands can’t stand behind their claims is really concerning.
That game has been going on for a long time. Like frame weights used to be claimed without derailleur hangers bottle cage bolts and some even unpainted WTF!
Pretty much everyone is aware that steel bikes can be light. This is not news. Weird that you think it is. I’ll take a stiff carbon bike any day in an adult size. Not all of us are little guys.
Unfortunately this lady who is much lighter than I am and not a strong cyclist is saddles by a much heavier bike than she should be riding proportionate to her weight. She weighs 110 lbs dripping wet. Also she was told that disc brakes would be better and now she regrets owning a bike with disc brakes. Every time she comes in we are replacing either brake pads or rotors or both. We live in a very hilly area of San Diego. She had no idea how expensive it was going to be to maintain a disc brake bike 🥲
As an engineer in the automotive industry myself, I do agree that the cycling industry is a pretty big mess when it comes to quality engineering.
I also think that weight is the most overrated and stupidest indicator of bike performance ever used...
You are correct and I 100% agree with you. In fact, I don’t even think about weight but as a TH-camr I know it’s a trigger and it gets a great amount of discussion in the comments. Personally, ride quality is my number 1 criteria in choosing a bike to ride. Furthermore, to add to your point, weight does not determine a bike’s performance at all
@georgevargas7351 I get your point. Weight is a pretty low hanging fruit not only for youtubers but also for the manufacturers to get attention. But I think this only emphasises the fact that the overblown marketing and the rubbish engineering of cycling companies are only one side of the medal. The other side are the customers themselves, who often times boost questionable engineering choices and marketing hypes with superficial knowledge and superstition.
Weight does not matter for all non pro riders, you’re right. But for the pros, why do you see them pour out half their water when climbing to a mountain top finish? I ride both a heavy bike and a light bike and there is a noticeable difference.
@@tonyt8804 for most of them pouring out half a bottle is in their head. Drinking that half a bottle and having those fluids and calories in them would do more for their performance then pouring it out 😂
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad You are only partially right. I agree that at some point it's good enough. Somewhere below around 8kg all the weight loss comes at the prize of feeble underperforming components which will negate the benefits. However I agree that definitively the reasonable weight can be achieved by other materials than carbon.
The best example of engineering nonsense are deep carbon wheels, which weight more than slim aluminium ones. Why on earth doesn't anyone use styrofoam profiles on alu rims to provide the deep profile for aerodynamics? It would be overall far lighter than for example 50mm deep carbon.
The HED Jet wheels I ride and sell to my customers are an alloy rim with a carbon hollow fairing bonded to the rim. I think it’s the best of both worlds durability of an alloy rim, a textured brake track for better braking than a standard alloy rim, standard rubber brake pads and deep fairing of 46mm or 60mm and no faffing about looking for special carbon specific brake pads or poor braking in the wet. The weight isn’t overall light but they’re not heavy either.
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad This product makes perfect sense. The proper material is applied where it is needed and show its advantages.
But is it as aerodynamically efficient as the Cervelo? I doubt it. Reducing the performance to weight alone is a marketing/clickbait tactic as well.
@@tadaias8540 not true at all. The stopwatch doesn't lie
In general I think talking about weight is irrelevant to most of us. But you’re right it gets the clicks.
When the rider’s body makes up over 80%-85% of the drag there’s only a tiny bit left for bike frame and wheels. At speeds under 40km the frame is not moving the needle. And this rider in particular rarely hits speeds over 18 mph (30kmh) on the flats.
thankfully good folks like you are out there to tell people frame material, geo, tire clearance, and brake type matter so much more to the riding experience than weight.
Thank You Michael! I talk about the ride quality of steel to my customers and I often hear “…but it’s heavy” 😊 it’s ok when I ride my steel bikes I look over at someone on a carbon bike and think I know a little secret they don’t lol 😂
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad but my carbon bike weighs 14 pounds... With powermeter. And rides awesome
I would have some doubts about the weight since steel weighs more than 5 times carbon. In any case, even if it were true, the lightness of a frame is a second quality to the main one: stiffness! Steel flexes three times more than carbon on an equal weight basis. So that frame will be a rubber band suitable for tourist walks, certainly not for competitive activities. it will be terrible for power transmission and driving responsiveness with a steering box and a bottom bracket that go everywhere!!!
Its the shape (mainly diameter) of the tube that contributes most to stiffness. When aluminum took over from steel, it was common for people to say that aluminum is stiffer than steel. In fact steel is much stiffer. But aluminum is one third the weight, so you could use a greater volume of material and make a wider tube and thus a stiffer frame.
High end (TdF) steel bikes of the 80s certainly weighed in at about 18lbs (I remember this well). You make a valid point about the relative stiffness of modern carbon frames though. The thing is, even cheaper carbon frames are stiff, which means manufacturers have moved on to phoney marketing about aerodynamics and 'compliance' and components (eg saying disc brakes are an improvement over rim). I actually think bikes got as good as they can be about 10 years ago. Everything since has been hype.
Scales don’t lie people do. A Ritchey Road Logic weighs about 1700 grams let’s say the Cervelo R3 Disc frame is about 1000 grams how does your math make any sense at a steel bike weighing 5X more? Stiffness is not want you want in a frame 😂
Dude have you ridden a modern steel bike lately? Your wild ass claims about rubber band and flexing and blah blah are so completely off the mark. If I put you on this bike and you rode it you wouldn’t even know that you were on a steel frame under load on 20% grades or max sprint efforts. How old are you? Have you ridden a modern steel frame?
You sound like the latest generation of bike industry marketing pundits that have been brainwashed to think steel is heavy, flexes and that carbon stiffness is actually a good quality in a frame.
Lastly, ride quality is the most important criteria in choosing a frame not stiffness. Get your head out of the bike industry marketing hype and learn more about real bikes and how to ride them.
@@chriswright9096 very good points Chris! Thanks for watching please consider subscribing. 😊
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad but steel is heavy (carbon frames now coming in at under 700 grams for aero frames), it is flexy (absolutely is, compared to modern carbon bikes), and carbon stiffness (in the right directions) is absolutely a good quality in a frame (love the razor sharp handling and response plus the stability of the bottom bracket (almost double the width of steel tubes).
4:34... 'it also doesn't mean it's going to perform better'
Nor does it mean a couple of pounds here or there is going to make a bike perform worse. Everyone seems to blame the 'bike industry' but it seems the biggest culprits are youtubers who spend so much time trying to play bikes off against each other. Cut through the BS of x is better than y.
Here's a radical idea... Buy a bike you like and ride it.
Here’s a radical idea that’s what I do. That’s why I ride and prefer to ride steel bikes when the industry and TH-camrs as you say tell me that’s it’s heavy it’s outdated and it can’t ride better than carbon.
I ride bikes I want to ride not bikes the industry wants me to believe I should ride. This is NOT a video exclusively about weight, albeit it’s what got you to watch it in the first and allow you to get to know me.
Like and subscribe and stick around you’ll see I’m not your typical TH-camr.
@@SeeYouUpTheRoadhaha I can understand how you may have felt how that was directed specifically at you, it wasn't nor was it my intention.
It's just frustrating when more and more content creators and, as an extention commenters, seem to gripe over rim vs disc, steel v carbon, electric v mech etc.
If more time was spent on riding and enjoying your bike (whatever brand, material, colour etc) it is I can guarantee (well I can't but ssssh) your life will be a whole lot better than worrying wether or not your tubes are light enough, unless you have gone tubeless!
Anyway, keep doing what you're doing and I am sure I will keep watching 😅
@@DS-um9hi Thank You D S i appreciate the follow up.
As far as TH-cam it’s about clicks and views. I’m guilty of it myself from time to time. I would like an alternate source of income. Especially during the months that the shop is nearly dead (October - March)
Lastly, you know or should know that I ride. You can follow me on Strava. I’m not just a TH-camr 😂
You can follow me on Strava:
www.strava.com/athletes/5473
@@SeeYouUpTheRoadYou have ridden P-B-P that already gets you in my good books! 😅
Sorry but the more weight the more energy to propel it it’s not rocket science especially up hill another sucker talking absolute drivel
Please get with the times and weigh things in Kg. No one uses pounds and ounces anymore, only Americans.
Not true whatsoever! You weigh parts and components in grams you weigh complete bikes in pounds. Furthermore, the only reason they (the bike industry that lies to you) started using kilograms is because disc brake bikes were getting so heavy. It was embarrassing for them to post 20 pounds, 21 pounds, 22 pounds total weight so they switched over to kilograms because visually it’s a smaller number and again the bike industry trying to deceive you
Thanks for watching though
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad the whole world has moved to metric. Wake up
In other news… I wish the US would adopt the metric system for everything but …
The American still uses Fahrenheit, inches, miles, pounds, ounces and etc. They just have not converted to the decimal system. But anyway, all are just measurement units; nothing wrong with using pounds and ounces.
@@chanc2 correct!
Hold on, did you say 40,000' of climbing?
Pretty darn close 39,450 ft. Most people got between 39K-41K here is my Strava link.
strava.app.link/c9aT4bjfUCb