Yamaha Ténéré 700: OutEx failure analysis, 3M alternative details and installation guide
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In this video I'd like to share and analyse the OutEx Tubeless conversion system failure I suffered on my way back from Albania. I think it's important to show what happened and what caused the system to fail.
I also talk about the alternative to OutEx which a lot of people is using: 3M 4411N or 4412N sealing tape. I visited the 3M dealership and got some information about it as well as bought 5m of the tape.
Last section of the video is the guide how to install the OutEx or 3M sealing tape onto the rim or really how I did it.
3M™ Extreme Sealing Tape 4411N
www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b4006...
3M™ Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200
www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b4006...
OutEx
www.ebay.com/usr/outex
www.outex.jp/tubelesskitenglis...
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:18 OutEx failure in detail
02:52 Causes of the OutEx failure
06:15 Preparing the rim for 3M/OutEx
06:65 Do we need to grind the nipples flat?
08:11 3M 4411N details
10:17 Using 3M 4411N + other products
12:43 Applying OutEx or 3M guide
15:59 Inflate & test
17:13 Summary & notes
#yamaha #tenere700 #outEx
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I ran 3m tape, followed by muckoff MTB tubeless tape as a protective layer. 3+ years, no problem. I redid it completely after 3 yrs to see how it was holding up and that 3m tape was still like new and very difficult to remove
I've been looking into something like this too, how does it hold up during a tire change, does the beads of the old/new tires coming on and off damage it at all?
@@JoshuaClarked it survived 2 tire changes with no issue. The main risk would be a lazy tire spoon scraping the spoke-end or taking a 6” nail, both being extremely unlikely. I do carry some mtb tubeless sealant in case of emergency.
First off, the Outex instructions call for grinding down the factory nipples which he didn't do. Second we have no idea how well he prepped the surface pf the rim prior to application. Since he didn't grind the spokes I have to assume that he didn't properly prep the rim either!
Just got Bartubeless done on my bike, can't wait to try it out
Amigo- new owner of T7. Very good videos. New subscriber. Greetings and respect to all from Durango Mexico 🇲🇽
Excellent review. Thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for. I used silicone to the nipples and a 3M extreme adhesive tape and failed at half the nipples. Ordered
3M 4412N. I also used a Harley Davidson stem which holds air tight nicely if anyone is looking for a tubeless valve. Harley Davidson 43157-83A
Very informative video. Looking at going tubless on my 2022 africa twin. Thanks for sharing some of the lessons learned.
as always- thoroughliy documented and good demonstrated! keep up your good work!
Thank you!
Thank You for your well thought out researched and attention to detail! Excellent video and very useful! I'm in the process of doing this to a wheel that is already tubeless. (KTM 1190 Adventure R) The KTM uses rubber around the rim to seal. The rubber is prone to failure and is recommended to be replaced every 5 years. I already used the 4200 adhesive sealant around each individual spoke nipple instead of the 5200. I heard the 5200 is too permanent and hard to remove. Yes..I did consider the seal will move/fail when tightening or adjusting spokes. I trued the rim and tightened all spokes to spec. before applying the sealant in hopes the sealant will actually hold the spokes in place making less need to adjust spokes? I'm not in favor for grind the spoke nipples just seems like too much possibility of failure and hitting the rim with the grinder. I think I'm going to use the 3m tape, then use the KTM rubber gaskets. I just want extra protection and less worry in the future. I am wondering if you use some either talcum powder or even silicon lubricant if it will reduce the friction on the tape if one needs to use a tube? You said that 3M makes the same tape as those round dots that cover the nipples...what tape is it, please? I would like to get some and cut the circles myself. Thank You, again!
Very interesting as I have just bought a Yamaha SCR950 and want to run tubeless tyres. I only ride on the road. You can't beat a beer to finish with.
Really well explained video. Many thanks. Simon.🏴🏴🏴
Excellent video in all ways. Good camera work. Good information. Good, clear information. I wonder if duct tape or something similar could be wrapped on top of the 3M tape to add some durability.
Many thanks! How did it finally work out. Are you satisfied over time? Would it make sense to put a protective layer of some other tape over the 3M sticky tape?
Really useful and I did enjoy watching it. Really can't make my mind up about different options but I think the 3M tape looks the right one 👍
In my experience all failed so far. I have not tried the Barttubless but otherwise all failed. For various reasons 😂
@@FARANDFURTHER thanks for this. I've just looked up the cost of Bartubeless and at £300 plus I'm probably going to go with the M3 tape 🤔
@@richardgiles2484 😂😂😂😂 yep. I will try it for the science 😂 I guess 🤷🏻♂️ It’s the rim which is expensive
Hello, thx for the video. I'm buying a Triumph T100 2023 and plan using 3M Extreme Tape instead of Outex, question: can I use the original Pirelli Phantom tiers after the conversion ? Is there any risk in using the Pirelli Phantom with the original rim after conversion ? how long will the 3M tape last ? thanks so much.
Brother use JB WELD Red High Temperature RTV Silicone Gasket Maker and Sealant. I used it because it has High resistivity towards oil and temperature. Outex is always a failure due to its high price.
That could also work very well indeed. The chemicals is what I think kills the OutEx.
I had problems with the outex layer on my rear tire as well, the front has been fine. I went to the 3m tape, I actually just layer it over the outex layer, which I feel I might have goofed up the install on. The 3m I just had overlap the metal-to-outex layer to prevent air from entering , thus sealing it up better. Its holding so far, if i have a problem, I will just go straight to the 3M as I found installing the outex tape to be very difficult to do, especially since the videos ?I found were not great - your way of showing how you did it was awesome and they should make a similar video showing how to install the tape around the nipple properly. By the time I figured it out I am sure I screwed up several :)
The official outex install video was the absolutely happiest use case, with no narrative, and he did the whole wheel in like 2 minutes... it took me a lot longer !
Thanks for the video and ride safe!
Mike
Hi, I'm really happy the video was useful. In theory the 3M over the OutEx could seal the rim, the 3M is super soft so it can be forced everywhere.
I'd however investigate where the OutEx leaks and how as I have also managed to damage it with my tire irons and had to just cut portion off and replace it with the spare tape, which works well.
OutEx also sells sealing agent for the small holes (I have not tested it):
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Air-Leak-Prevention-Agent-for-OUTEX-TUBELESS-KIT-/293887593577
The correct sealing of the nipples is crucial and I really tried to show it because to be honest that's probably only point of failure of the OutEx (unless it peels of like mine :) ). Patience is key and taking real care to seal the nipple all around without any wrinkles. Also important is to leave enough "meat" on the outside side (one close to rim) as it will be pushed a bit in with the air pressure.
I've spent probably about 30-40 minutes with the rear wheel.
@@FARANDFURTHER yeah for whatever reason I had bad adhesion or something with my outex. I would put the tire on, there would be a leak, I would cut the section out replace with new tape, remount the tire, completely new spoke would leak. I did this maybe 5 times and even had to buy more outex tape and got sick of fighting with it and threw a tube in it.
The 3m tape worked first try. Yeah you are right I will need to be careful but I use a no mar tire machine so less chance of hitting the tape. I will keep an eye on it
That is super strange. What I found though is that the rim must be super clean. I found this by accident when using acrylic paints, they’re very sensitive to contamination and started to “wrinkle” very often. It took a lot of effort to clean the surface properly. Acetone, Perchlor-Ethylene, Technical alcohol etc... need to be used. I think 3M tape is different as it should stick to virtually anything even when it’s wet 😂🤷🏻♂️ Some alien tech or what!
Great! Thanks! I will get some of this tape.
Yep, it works well. Just don’t tighten the bolts and it is good to put something over it just for measure. Especially when using tube in emergency.
I know it have been couple years since this posting. But, I had some questions. The Outex instructions seems to state Do Not overlap either tape layers. Cut a 30-40 mm. splice for the joints where both ends of the tape meet flush. So do I have it correct and does is matter which way ( direction ) you apply the tapes to wheel?
Hello my friend,
How low can you go with the pressure without the risk of the tire going over the hump and loosing air?
I ask, because I have a beta Alp 200, a very light weight off road bike which needs to be driven with very low pressure and I’d like to give it a try on the back wheel with the 3M
Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
Best regards
Dani
Thanks, good advice!
Most welcome
Awesome video, thanks mate, i'm going straight to 3M on my T7 rear, still undecided about keeping tube for front or going 3M tubeless as well. I'm going tubeless so i can just plug a tyre instead of removing whole wheel & tyre if i get a puncture
Good luck! Yes I have the tubeless for the ease of repair. In front I run tubeless for ages the only issue is that
1) don’t go lower than 1.3bar/19psi
2) front tends to suffer more from bead leaking as the tire flexes and dirt gets in between the tire and rim
I’ve just fixed 2 rims to seal again. Proper clean and removal of all corrosion is crucial.
@@FARANDFURTHER But does it really work?
@@Valterpenato What does work? Can you elaborate your question?
@@FARANDFURTHER Hello. I asked if this change really works over time.
Yes it does, I have about 60k km on the OutEx and I have now done 9000 + one Rally on the 3M tape and so far no problem. The only problem is one needs to be super careful when changing the tire not to damage the seal.
Sorry if you have been asked this question before. You mention that 3M has tape for sealing nipple ends….its just not cut into circles. Do you know the tape type or number? Also if one were to cut circles…what would be the proper diameter?
Great Video! TY
What do you do if you a spoke comes loose? You take the entire wheel apart to tighten a spoke?
Great video!!!
Thanks!
👍🏻 thank you, for this interesting info ..... question: what brand of tire did you put on ?
The “old” one was Pirelli Scorpion which came with the bike which on the tarmac was fine. Had it in storage since 2019 😂 Now I put Mitas E-07+ as I won’t do crazy off-road in the Balkans.
Thank you for a very helpful vid.
For the sake of clarity could you please tell me why you had to peel off the old OutEx nipple patches if in fact the installer had failed to install them in the first place? What did I miss?
Thanks again….. from British Columbia….
Hi Rob, I peeled off the remaining OutEx sticky layer which was pressed into and around the nipples, not the nipple patches.
Nice video, thks. Just my opinion but grinding the spoke "nipples" or head is a no no because spokes hold the rim by tension so by grinding then the shear resistance will be reduced and failure can occur.
Yea... not really fond of grinding the spoke heads as well.
After 2 years, would you still use this or go back to the outex?
Hi Really nice video! i bought 4411N and not 4412 is it nessesary to go 2 laps around the rim then to get more protection if i were to hit with the tire iron? Cheers
Great question! I have done one layer when I first tested the tape. It worked well but it developed the leak at some point through the nipple.
Then I put tube in and that put a lot of stress on the tape but most of it was intact.
Yesterday I wanted to fix it finally. So I cut out the old damaged parts (sharp knife and it peals off nicely) and applied another layer.
It seals well and now, after the experience I’d recommend use 2 layers or 4412.
In terms of tire irons… the problem is that main damage will be lifting up edges of the tape with the tire iron. This will gradually compromise the tape (water, chemicals, etc…) The tape is so soft (any thickness) that it is very easy to damage, it’s just one feature of it.
Was it installed correctly?
So if you're concerned with damaging the 3M tape you could clean the factory rubber rim strip and stretch it over the tape before installing the tire...
What do you think about using sealent with the tubeless tires with the outex? such as a ride on sealant
I have not tried really. But OutEx themselves sell a sealant which is compatible with their solution so check t”their website for more information.
What about using a small bicycle inner tube cut to fit on time of the 3 m tape as a protective layer?
That may work for using a tube but it won’t protect from the tire irons. But yes you can, you could also use the tube tape they use to protect the tube from the nipples.
Could you please make a trail based tire change video? I changed the tires yesterday and the rear tire was incredibly hard. Only used «trail tools» so I know what to do if I’m out and about. Thanks!
I’m happy to make a video but why change tire on the trail? On the trial what is most likely happen is a flat and I’d need to take one side off to change tube (unless I have tubeless) not take the tire off the rim.
Is it more about some tips and demonstration how I use my trail kit to do this?
@@FARANDFURTHER Thanks for the response as always, I’ve learned so much from you.
I ment tube change, not a complete tire change, sorry.
What do you mean when you say «take one side off to change tube»? Break the bead on one side and slide the tube out and replace? That sounds way easier than removing the whole tire to replace the tube.
Yes, tips, tricks and a demonstration would be really, really awesome. Most instruction videos are done in a garage with tools that you really cant bring on the trails.
@@JohannesDalen Man! I took up on the challenge and what a pain it was 😂 Now I need to somehow creatively cut 1 hour of struggle into reasonable video 😂🤷🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
@@FARANDFURTHER Thats awesome, really cool that you did that upon request! I’m looking forward to the video - add some bloopers at the end. I spent many hours changing mine, swearing and sweating!
Why did you use the 1mm instead of the 2mm? How wide was the 3m tape you used? Thanks!
The shop which sold it didn't have the 4412N (2mm) one. The 1mm worked, but now I'd definitely recommend 2mm version or two layers (which I have now). Width is 50mm I believe.
They come in 1" and 2" and rarely 1.5", just got them off digikey. Specs wise the black version is more resistant to UV aging.
I've used mine on a crf1000l for 4+ coming 5 yrs just under 90000km. I use 2 rounds of 4412n.
Though looking at the t700 and crf1000 rear wheel spoke positions, the crf1000 is much closer to the center vs the t700. I can imagine the t700 nipples being closer to the edgwall of the rim will give the tape less to seal around.
Really enjoyed your video. Would it be worth using the 2mm tape and not the 1mm tape. This is my first bike for a long time with spokes and I don't do off ride riding so I'm hopefully not going to need to tighten the spokes 😒
Definitely 2mm tape now after the experience with it. Yes your problem with the spokes will be minimal.
@@FARANDFURTHER thanks for the advice 👍
Most welcome
I want to make my T700 rims tubeless but in combination with the inner tubes. But if I hear your advice, that's not very wise
Are the tyres you are using tubeless or the original tubed ones?
I'm for most of the time using some Tubeless tires but I've also used Tubed tires (off road) on the tubeless conversion and it worked quite well. But for road riding I'd use only tubeless tires on tubeless conversion rim.
3m all the way, never let me down.
Yep, it seems to be working well. How you tighten the spokes? Does it make problems?
@@FARANDFURTHER I wonder as well. Probably there is no way you can adjust spokes after sealing anyway?
So… I’ve tested the 3M tape and it failed pretty quickly. The 1mm tape is definitely not thick enough. Just yesterday I thought giving it another go.
I had to tighten the spokes and the result is that, of course, the seal is broken. You can adjust a bit but more than 1/2 turn will compromise the seal.
I’ve applied another layer of the tape (as I have only 1mm) and it seems to hold for now. The tape is meant to be stacked by the way.
Let’s see how long this lasts.
Super!
Thank you! Cheers!
Hi, thanks for the great vid went a long way to helping me make my mind up. Is there an actual name or code for the 3M round patches many thanks
Great to hear, I just published a bit of update on the 3M. I didn't use the 3M round patches but leftovers from the OutEx so I don't know the codes.
That being said... those round patches do very little in terms of ability to adjust the spokes. The tape is so flexible that it will be pushed all around the nipple and when you adjust the spokes it will compromise the seal.
Just tried it, so... if tubeless, with this... forget about adjusting spokes.
@@FARANDFURTHER thanks for the update really appreciate it
@@petergj Sorry for the delay! 🤷🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
What is the width of the 3M tape that you used?
The details of the tape used are in the description (link to 3M website) and I talk about the details in the video: th-cam.com/video/ZAAxZGEe5tY/w-d-xo.html
Hi bud, Nice video.
Couldent you just apply a second layer of a more durable tape on the top of the 3M, just to minimize damages?
Possibly, although the 3M guy was not keen on it especially when we talked about the tube scenario. He was concerned about the friction between the layers. I showed him the OutEx protector layer and he said it makes sense as it’s slippery while the 3M tape is not.
I’m very curious if 3M survives the tire changes at home. When I was putting the tire on one bead sloped in the middle and made a bit of scar on the tape. I think I was lucky it didn’t strip it from one of the nipples.
@@FARANDFURTHER will be interesting to see how it works out, very tempted in converting too.
@@everythingtenere For me, travel and tubeless is no brainer. Hard off-road may be a slight issue with the front but hey I did Dinaric rally on tubeless with the OEM rim... and I won’t be doing harder stuff 😂 So I’m happy, also an investment into front MT rim may not be the worst idea considering it will make whole system just so much robust. The leaks in the front through the bead are the most common and I believe the MT rim would eliminate this.
@@FARANDFURTHER can i use the 1.5inch 38mm for the rear of CRF1000L rim (Africa Twin)
Hello, great video how wide is 3M ?
50mm
What about 2 Layers of tape?
First, with drilled holes at the nipples and the second as a total as it is?
The first layer with the holes, would compensate the hight of the nipples
Mine failed to adhere on installation 😖 outex very expensive but failed. Used a ductape plus silicon instead
Can’t comment on the reason why it would fail on installation but yea, duck tape and silicon also works for limited time.
In order to reduce as much as possible the damage of the 3m tape I put, above the 3m, the standard plastic tape (the one you use in the rim as tube tyre protector).
Ciao
That may work quite well, it would still introduce friction when used with the tube though. As it would be a layer which would not be fixed, but as a protection it may work.
@@FARANDFURTHER I'm going to have a trip in the western Alps with oem rims + 3m tape + plastic tape above + standard oem tube. I'll let you know how it works
@@paolozuffi8461 That would be great! Thanks a lot!
@@FARANDFURTHER I've been driving Truxton 1200R over the year ~10k km. So far, so good.
You mean on the 3M table, standard plastic nipple cover and tube? Or you mean one year with 3M tape?
Just put a layer of stronger tape over the top of it to protect it?
I’ve done now substantial KM on it even with the tube and it’s still fine. The tape got really well pressed into the nipples and still seals. Problem is that I’m sure the tape will get damaged when I tighten the spokes….
Looks great, how is it holding up till date?
The front tire is leaking around the rim, not through the spokes so it has tube. The rear is now leaking through one of the spokes... So has tube as well... So the 3M tape... not sure didn't really last that long.
@@FARANDFURTHER have you tried the 3M 5200 Marine Sealent?
@@ArkajyotiChoudhury Not really, just the tape for now. Until I'm back, or have longer downtime I'll run the tubes.
@@FARANDFURTHER Align the wheel, tighten the spokes, clean the spoke nipples with petrol and then 100% ethyl alcohol. Let it dry. Seal the inside with the 3M 5200 marine sealent, let it dry for 24 hours and then apply the 3M tape that you used. I did the same on my friend's INT 650 a year ago, and will be doing the same on my GT650 the next month.
Sounds like a good approach which could hold. The only problem with all these is if you need to tighten spoke it compromises whole system… Will look into it when I setup base in Albania.
Mmmmm - this has got me thinking. I've been using tubeless on my mountain bikes for years and always wondered why motorbike tyres couldn't be run the same way. Many on MTBs just use gorilla tape instead of the expensive specific sealant tape they sell in bike shops. But MTBs don't have the same stresses and strains of a motorbike I guess. So I like the idea of the 3M tape but then why not put a layer of gorilla tape over that to protect the 3M tape? Also why not put some sealant in the tyre like Muck-Off Tubeless Sealant? That would if needed work its way into the spoke holes and seal the rim better. You also obviously have a puncture sealant solution in the tyre as well to potentially seal a puncture on the road. The issue for me is getting the tyre off on the trail. if you tear the tyre or has a hole that can't be plugged then you have to put an inner tube in. But TL tyres can be impossible to get off the rim, especially if you ride alone and can't use someone's side stand to break the seal. Finally long videos are good if it gives you useful info - short videos that lack detail are pointless! So many thanks. regards, Mike
Yes it is being done. Normally you would use the rubber that is originally there to protect the tube from spoke's ends. Some kind of tape can be used as well in combination. I use it even now with tubes. Also Muck-off is also being used to seal it in case of some tiny leak or trying to seat the bead. As for the TL tyre getting of the rim - if you have center stand you can use your side stand to break the bead. I've done it on front and rear, just somehow block the stand from moving (attach a rope etc.) so there is no possibility that the bike rolls from it. Then it can be leaned surprisingly quite far. But 3M TAPE is not a good idea as I heard plenty of stories of it failing. Much better is to use that 3M marine silicon and glue the spoke holes and you can always secure it by the 3M tape (5200 is bonding stronger than 4200, I bought 5200 of course lol). Spokes not moving is not an issue at all. It's even better as you don't need to tighten them! Spokes on the rear wheel don't move much anyway, so that is not a problem. Front might be an issue but I will use a tube as the rim is not really designed for TL tyre, so the tyre might leave the bead at 120kmh on hwy - not risking that! Patching the front is not really that problematic, the rear is a pain so I'll be doing only that. Also when I glue the spokes I will put a layer of 5200 silicone all over the rim instead of the tape. Another youtuber/advrider "Riding Luna" has done this and says it has not failed him in like 3 years. He did 2 layers. You just have to cure it for like a week so it's not really as simple and fast job as with the tape, but imho worth the wait. I would also use metal brush. brake cleaner and sand paper to make the adhesive stick as best as possible, making extra care to clean the spoke/nipple holes. The worst thing is I think to seat the bead of TL tyre on the trail. Not high possibility when getting a puncture but still a possibility. Will use probably butane + flame method, seems the easiest lol.
Hmm does the 3M have the required heat resistance?
Well, I've been now using the 3M for a while and have to say that it did fail and is now leaking through the nipples again...
Check out the data sheet. After 8wks at 85c it's actually stronger than control at 21c.
Some charts show up to 171c. Recommended long term days/weeks at 121c and short term mins/hrs at 149c
Wasn’t installed correctly. If the nipples are not grinded, it creates an air pocket that keeps heating up, expand and progressively weaken the outex. The small patches wouldn’t have helped because of the nipple bulge, which is close to the rim edge. If the nipples are flush with the wheel, the patches, then the outex would have held
Can you pin a comment on the update about repairing a section, very useful for those trying to choose what to do. What do you do on the front? I want to use TUbliss on my Ténéré 700, just on the front and 4411N on the rear.
tubliss can not be used at highway speeds.
Spend the damn money and get the Tubliss v2 , not only gives you tubless rims but also gives you a run flat alternative if you cant plug your tire right away with 100psi high pressure tube. No damage to rim or tire if you get a flat.
Cant run Tubliss on the highway !
@alainbrouillette7740 not true
@@Matthew-wn8oq Tubliss themselves say dont use it on the highway .
@alainbrouillette7740 I've had tubliss on 3 dualsports and traveled 2 and half hours 5 days a week round trip from MA to CT for 4 years without a single issue so dont speak on issues you know nothing about. As far as tubliss saying it's not advised , we'll California literally says everything thing you eat , drink , use , drive , fuel causes cancer. Do you have cancer?
did anyone tried to put some silicone on every spoke and then use the tape?..and use tire milk ;)
I think yes, people are mentioning the 3M marine sealant quite often.
Ma davvero funziona?
The 3M tape did fail on me now. So I'm not entirely sure if it's long term solution to be honest.