Tenere 700 - Tubeless or Not Tubeless?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ม.ค. 2022
- My experiences attempting to make the Yamaha Tenere 700 wheels Tubeless.
Find the 3M tape here:
www.amazon.com/dp/B012B051PA?...
Find the 3M sealant here:
www.amazon.com/dp/B0000AY6CA?...
I purchased my ALPINA wheels directly from Italy, but also available for the T7 here:
www.king-wheels.com/shop/alpi... - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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is great to see you back on TH-cam, take care friend
Thanks for sharing all the info and the tip on rotating the fork. From CT, USA
Videos always very interesting and informative ... greetings from Italy.
Great insight. I had the same experience with Outex. Worked on my Africa Twin for about 6k miles and then failed due to leaks around nipples. Have put a tube in it and have had no issues since. Well, one flat on the side of the highway but... Whatever I hit cored the tire with a 1/4" diameter hole. Patched the tube and reinstalled the tire and rode the tire until it was done. No issues even with the patch. Looking forward to your chain video!
Glad to find your Great Channel! Hava T7, just got xtra set Dubya wheels for 80/20 tubless dirt tires.. Thank you for shaking out your experiences! Sub’d.. looking forward to more 🤙🏽
I have the Outex kit for my Guzzi V85. But then, Guzzi came out with rims for tubeless tires (nipples outside the bead area) with the 2021 model. I finally got a set in and will mount them shortly.
Nice to see a video from you and hope to see you in Daytona
Interesting. When doing the Outex tubeless conversion, the final result seems to greatly depend on where the spokes are, and if they are close to the edge of the drop center or more down the middle. The T7's spokes are pretty close to the edges, probably to give more triangulation and strength I suppose. I bet sealing them individually with 3M 5200 marine sealer before taping them could work, but I still don't like them being that close to the edge of the drop center.
The thing I would do with that wheel is seal each spoke with the 3M 5200 sealer and use wider 3M 4411N extreme sealing tape, and run it up the entire drop center on up to the edge of the shoulder, trimmed to fit, but not on the actual bead seating area of course. Doing that would give more "coverage".
To be honest, I am not impressed at all by the Outex kit. The 3M stuff I mentioned is on Amazon and it costs about $50 and it's much better. There are some good videos on sealing the spokes, I use my tire balancer and do the wheel in 3rds and let it cure before moving on. It is a tedious job, but that's what winter is for 😆
I did the 3M Marine 5200 sealant / 3M tape thing on my Husky 701 Enduro's rear wheel and it is working perfectly, not losing any air at all. Ironically the tubeless converted wheel holds air better than the natural rubber heavy tube I was running, which would lose a pound or two a week. The spokes on my 701 are right down the middle of the rim's drop center, so there is plenty of tape around them, and I also used the marine sealer of course. My bike is still pretty new so the rims are clean, but I waited 2.5K miles to bed the spokes in and then checked/adjusted them before doing the conversion.
For the narrower 21" front wheel I currently have a heavy tube, but plan to go with a TuBliss kit when the tire is changed, as I want to be comfortably running 22 PSI in the front tire on that bike while riding off road and the tubeless conversion needs more air than that to be safe. I run 26 in the rear on road or off with a MotoZ RallZ rear, which is a meaty beast of a tire, it hooks up! Some guys run the TubBliss on the 2.5 inch wide rear rim, which is wider than TuBliss is designed for but they use certain tires with thick enough beads. I don't air down the rear at all and elected to seal the rim instead.
After decades of bending over, using random crummy tire spoons that mysteriously appeared in my toolbox (I have no idea where or how I got them) I finally broke down and bought a Rabiconda and their excellent tire spoon set at age 61. The Rabiconda was money, but man, it is so nice 😁
Thank you Paul 🙏
Why is this material a year late?
We missed your inspirational videos
Keep going strong friend 🍻🍻
Great Video Paul, thank you.
Thanks for the video. Good warning to all of us who are considering "converting" the rims. I'll stick to tubes.
Converting works providing you use the DIY kit and not the Outex.
it's not always raining when you get a tube flat. When you're in the middle of the desert and there's no shade, you'd be wishing for some rain tho.
I have a Honda shadow aero spoke wheels. I got some constitution clear silicone from home Depot put a Dot around each spoke head let it dry two days went back and did some more let it dry. I'm going on two years and no lost off air. When checking use water and soap and spray the spoke to wheel mount if there is a leak will bubble
I hate tubed rims. Unfortunately 2 of my 3 bikes have them. Will be checking out those rims.
No more chain drives for me unless i'm riding a 100% dirt bike. Shaft drive is the way to go for high milage riders. i enjoyed the tire discussion.
I certainly do miss the shaft. 8 chains since switching to the T7. I just do a chain and sprocket set every 12k now.
I've got an fjr1300 and a tiger 800xca. The one thing I dislike about the the tiger Is that it has tubed tyres and looking to change them to tubeless. So far after watching lots of videos I'm probably going to use the M3 tape which seems the best option unless anyone can recommend otherwise 🤔
It is the one thing holding me back buying the T7, I haven't had a tubed wheel for over 30 years. Especially considering the advent of tubeless spoked wheels on just about all competitive bikes.
This year they are selling the World Raid version for the T7 which brings tubeless, among other things.
At $10k, the closest competitor with tubeless is thousands of dollars more, which is still more than if you switch to tubeless wheels or for $80, make your wheels tubeless. I've now put 90,000 miles on my Alpinas and over 30,000 miles on my homemade (not Outex) tubeless tape kit wheels without further issue.
@@handleby World Raid is not tubeless and because it is not made in Japan, will not be available in the US or Canada.
@@longhaulpaul 90K miles on the Alpinas without issue? Wow! I’m still a bit hesitant because the nipples still go through the wheels (yes I know they use 2 o rings now and that is supposed to fix the previous issue but I’m still hesitant). I’ve been saving up for Kineo tubeless wheels but they are about $1K more than the Alpinas. If you haven’t had any issues after 90K miles, you’ve got me reconsidering 🤔
I think for tubeless om spoked wheels the only way is like BMW gs and a few other. With the spokes outside the tire seal surface
My Friends have problem with KTM tubeless spoke wheels as well
Great overview, I’m wondering why you couldn’t run a bead of non-corrosive silicone down each edge of the original tape?
I run Stans latex sealant in my tubeless conversion, it seals small leaks and punctures and dynamically balances the wheels. 😊
I also run a simple tire pressure monitor on the handlebar with an audible low pressure alarm set to 22psi, these use a sensor equipped valve cap. ✌🏻
I read all the reviews on the Outex kit and trusted it would work. Two sets, one installed professionally and one I did. Both failed. Then I bought the tubeless wheels. I also put a TPMS system on as well after my expensive fiasco. I have since redone two sets rear of wheels with the sealant and wider tape and they are working fine. The problem with the sealant over the Outex narrow tape is the air bubbles will still form and a nick with a tire iron or even a tire bead could sneak and tear the tape. Sealant under the tape seems to be the best way, with the tape as the second barrier.
The only thing holding me back from getting a T7 is the tubed wheels. I was looking at aftermarket also and the only one that didn't have a seal at the stems are Kineo, but they are quite expensive. You should talk to your friends at Yamaha to see if they can come up with a tubless wheel as an option as I would pay for it. Many of the other ADV bike manufacturers have tubeless for their bikes.
They have sold every bike that has made it to our shores with hundreds waiting in line for 2022's. Tubeless wheels would add a hefty price tag to the bike, and true off-road riders want tubed tires so they can air them down very low. Hard to find any adventure bike that compares to the T7 for $10K. Yamaha doesn't make wheels, so you would be looking at $1000-1500 upcharge for tubeless wheels even from Yamaha.
This year they are selling the World Raid version for the T7 which brings tubeless, among other things.
We do our supermotos with Ziptape. It’s for taping seams of zip osb system on houses. You’ll never find a better tougher tape.
Interesting, I’ll take a look at that stuff too.
So far I have about 60,000 miles on my homemade job with only two small slow leaks from nicking the tape with tire irons.
Great video again Paul! I own a Star Venture and you have this nice t shirt, where are they available?
It was available as a test ride giveaway only when they introduced the bike in 2018.
With the chain issues, consider trying scottoiler. I used to adjust my chain every week before, now I barely have to do it once a month.
I had an oiler installed. It failed and not paying attention to it, left me hunting for a 122 link 525 chain on a Sunday in Vegas. Story to follow.....
I remember few years back my standard BMW chain on my f800GS lasted 34k miles … and yes - I was using a Scottoiler . Good stuff
I know that Tenere has to be much better for the road situations in the winter, but I would think your long highway rides the rest of the year would be better on that Venture you use to ride. I really like the Venture. I like the Tenere too though.
Well, except for tubes and chain, I find it equally enjoyable as a long distance mount. Capable of going anywhere. Not sure about winter, the Venture had traction control and I could reach the ground in heavy snow to help me ski.
For my T7 I send the rear wheel to Bartfactory in Italy for the tubeless conversion (video in my channel), they do also sell front tubeless wheels for around 700 euro's. How much are the alpina front wheels?
I'm sure you have thought of this, but what about putting a bead of silicon sealer under the edge of the tape and the rim?
Paul,
Contact Woody’s Wheel Works and they have some different nipples that they use when sealing T7 rims! Outex themselves recommends you grind down the nipples or change them.
The rim lip for a tubeless tire on dedicated tubeless rims are what make it serviceable. It's really a risky deal to run tubeless on a tube type rim. Ive got an 1190r that came with dedicated tubeless rims. Ive had a catastrophic blowout on the front and the bead didn't come off. Ran a flat rear for 10 miles until I could make a call. Do you have a picture of the ALpina's rim lip?
From my understanding the Yamaha tenere comes with tubeless wheels but they put tubes, they to ship to seal them
I'm also looking at the Alpina rims. Are yours anodized or painted? How have they held up? I understand anodization can fade over time.
Thanks for the video. Ride safe.
After 100,000 miles or more on the Alpinas, I’d say they have been flawless. I have not had to tighten a single spoke.
Balance easy and the anodized finish has held up perfectly. I’ve changed all 15 sets of tires by hand, so marks from my caveman tools are expected.
@@longhaulpaul Many thanks for taking the time to respond! Unfortunately it looks like I should have picked the Tenere 700 instead of the V-Strom 800 as Alpina doesn't currently offer wheels for that bike...yet.
Have you considered sealing around the nibbles with some kind of silicone sealant? I think I have seen this done on other installs.
I show it In the video! Yes. Mine are redone with 3" tape and marine sealant. The Outex kit failed miserably on two separate rear wheels.
@@longhaulpaul i did the rear on my KLR as you've done. Works great. Since you've had no problems with the front, I'll try doing the front when it becomes due. Seems like the cooler front compared to the heavier load and heat on the rear could be causative.
Having ridden dedicated dirt bikes and dual sports for 30+ years, checking and tightening the spokes has always been part of regular maintenance. How do you tighten any loose spokes with sealant on the inside of the rim?
Would it be possible with the Outex tape to make two loops around the rim with one loop against one side of the rim and the other loop against the other, so the loops would be essentially doubled up over the nipples? Combined with the silicon sealant over the nipples.
That might be easier than trimming the width of the 3M tape to fit.
$250 for two layers of Outex tape vs. $40 for the 3" is a pretty easy choice. Single or doubled, the 2" tape in the Outex kit can only cover one nipple properly at a time.
My BMW motorcycle mechanic friend and I tried to install the Outex kit on the rear of my Tenere. We could not make it work. So, I’m back to running tubes. That Outex kit was a total waste of money.
My front worked perfectly. Two different rears did not. Switched to sealing adhesive and wider 3M tape was the way to go for DIY. Only cost me $40
installing a tube inside of a tubeless tire reduces the tires load capacity by 10%.. it makes the tire feel like a used teabag. Like a basketball low on air. It doesn’t have the snap, the recoil, the bounce. You can feel it.. when you get a puncture, you just don’t plug it in go, you’ve got to take that wheel off, break the bed, take out the tube, patch it, or replace the tube, put the tube back in the tire, and hope you don’t pinch the tube. You also have to make sure that the tube is coated with talc powder so they can self center in the tire… there is no positive result from installing tubes in a wheel/tire if you can help it..
Would some marine sealant not work better than the tape?
That’s what I used in the end. Marine sealant then the protective tape as a top layer. It has held up quite well. Only had a few leaks from tire irons
The more I see these conversions the more I’m thinking it could be a bad idea and that factory or aftermarket tubeless rims is the safest way to go. However there’s a British guy who used 3M 5200 Marine sealant on its own without any leak issues or blowouts as far as I know.
My set of Alpina wheels now have over 100K miles on them and my stock wheels were converted with the 3m 5200 and a wider tape and they have over 60K miles without any issues. The Outex kit is too narrow for the big nipples on the rear wheel and why so many people have issues.
@@longhaulpaul that’s good to hear - think belt and braces approach of wider tape and serious sealant is the way to go.
Ive seen a T 7 barely avoiding a head on collision when the front tire was punctured. Im surprised these tube wheels are still DOT approved, in case of a blowout, theres nothing holding the tire in place as opposed to a true tubless wheel with safety bead. I have a DR650 and I trying to find a manufacturer willing to make s kit for the dr. Tube tires suck, they should be used on pure dirtbikes, not bikes that spend half the time on the road. I had Alpinas on my Africa Twin and they were great. Front was hard to mount but other than that they looked awesome and kept the air pressure and were truer than new oem wheels.
Almost all cruisers with spoke wheels have tubes, and they don’t do well off-road! Tubes or no tubes, the wheels will work and come from the factory with tubeless tires.
Is your Tenere suspension stock? If not, what have you done to it and how has this worked? What’s your weight?
Great work Paul. Keep it up. You’ve impacted me more than you will know.
Suspension was never touched until 80,000 miles. Completely stock.
@@longhaulpaul Incredible! Especially considering the load you carried, that you didn't stiffen it up.
@@ExpeditionaryRanger
Well, I added a bigger spring at 80k, thinking the suspension load may have been taxing the chain causing my premature wear.
Any benefit of using 3M tape and tubes together? May help as insurance from a blow out.
Carrying a tube might be a benefit but if you are using a tube as the bike was shipped with the plastic rim strip it will protect the tube much better than the tape. If you have a tube in a tubeless rim and you want to go tubeless after a pinch or tear, you will need to tear down the wheel, to remove the tube and add a valve stem, so might as well just put another tube at that point.
I think the tape needs to be wide enough to go up the walls of the channel. The distance between the spoke head and the edge of the tape is just to narrow
Get spoked wheels where the spoke holes are outside the bead.
Not made for this bike yet.
I did get custom tubeless wheels made.
@@longhaulpaul Damn how much did it cost you to get custom tubeless wheels made? And what company did you use?
How do those tubeless tapes or sealant affect the rim when you need to tighten the spokes?
Unless you damage a wheel, the sealed spokes really prevent the spokes from loosening, so they don't need to be adjusted. With the exception of a spoke that corroded from excessive winter salt, I have not had to adjust spokes (on spike wheeled bikes) over the last 450,000 miles. Most people who are adjusting loose spokes are creating the problem by constantly tightening one side that creates issues on the other side. If you stop touching the spokes, they will stay true unless you hit something and damage the rim.
Taped or sealed spokes will still allow adjustments, you might have to reseal the nipple if it tears the membrane though. Again, on this particular bike, I have not had any spikes loosen in 120,000 miles or riding so far on any of the three sets of wheels I use. Not one spoke.
@@longhaulpaul Good to hear. And it's true that I never had to tighten the spokes on the three KLR's I've had over the years.
Is it possible to get custom alu wheels or wheel with spokes outside of the rim, custom made, are there companies that could do that?
Anything is possible. They would need to make custom hubs for the specific bike as well as a custom rim. About $10,000 a set.
@@longhaulpaul thanks for reply, too much :).
If you're mostly on-road, why not V-Strom tubeless wheels. I think Woody's would build them?? 19" front interference?
I have a set of custom tubeless wheels from Alpina built specific for the T7.
My tubeless tests were prior, using what was available 18 months ago. The Outex kit was supposed to work great $120 investment verses the $2000 for Woodies or Alpina wheels. Lots of folks looking for tubeless options
@@longhaulpaul yes, all expensive, but V-Strom keeps spokes inside rim width and outside air chamber. Thanks for sharing your experience. I can't find any V-Strom debate maybe because no-one uses them off-road??
Do you miss the Star Venture?
I never think about a prior bike once I move on. I hardly remember riding the Venture. I suppose having cognitive issues with memory plays a part, but seriously, I see pics and video of me on a different bike and I wonder if it was really me!
If many many riders convert tubed to tubeless, why do manufacturers bother with a tubed system? I've heard bad things on both, usually when riders don't look after their kit!
The biggest reason to use tubes is cost. Spoked wheels are essential for off-roading and a true tubeless off-road wheel costs the manufacturer about 300% more than a traditional spoke rim. Off-road bike use tubes so they can air down to just a few pounds in the soft sand, where a tubeless tire would separate from the rim at the same pressure. My tubeless rims cost $2000, or the equivalent of 20% of the msrp of my entire motorcycle.
Cars and motorcycles all had tubes for the first 75 years!
Wouldn't you think yamaha would have a tubeless option. It's holding me back from buying one
For a $10K bike that is a top seller across the globe, they have delivered what off-road riders are really looking for. Tubeless wheels from the factory would be great, but would fetch an uncharge well over 10% of the cost of the bike. But it's available aftermarket or with wider tape and sealant as I show in the video, it's easily converted for under $100.
Doesn’t make sense to get spoke wheels if your only going highway with street tires maybe a VStrom is for you
I'm pretty sure Yamaha might have an issue if I was on a Vstrom. I do 40-50K miles a year on the street, but also do about 10,000 offroad which is more than most riders do in 5 years. Having the ability to do both very well is what makes the Tenere a winner.
I gave up on tube type tires decades ago after almost dying because of them. I only ride bikes with tubeless tires. I can't believe we still have tube type tires in 2022. It's absolutely ridiculous. The Super Tenere has tubeless tires, so does the Africa Twin Adventure, the BMW GS1200, and a number of other large adventure bikes. At least in the U.S. tubeless tires should be DOT required on ALL street legal bikes.
Many people are riding the T7 offroad because it is so user friendly in the dirt. Tubes make sense there. Tubeless rims would add 10% to the price of a T7, and still $5000 less than the other contenders. Like I did, owners can buy tubeless rims and still be way ahead of the game.
@@longhaulpaul Why would tubeless rims cost more than tube type rims? H-D used to charge $300 MORE for tube type wheels. Way back in 1986, Honda designed tubeless wire spoke wheels for the Rebel 450, which was only made for 2 years. It was no more expensive than any other 450 twin cruiser. It is a much better design than what everybody is using for tubeless wire spoke rims today. Yamaha has also used that same design for a tubeless rear rim on the XT225/XT250 for non U.S. models. Again these are very inexpensive bikes. Tube type wheels on street legal bikes just need to go away.
Same, it is so stupid to manufacture them still, should be illegal to have them on the road. Since the risk is too high - front tyre blowout usually means instant crash and I had one... Now I want to get new Transalp xl750, but it also has 21/18 tubed tyres. Not sure what to do, maybe I will just get cb500x.
I wouldn't convert without the safety ridge for the bead. I run 2 layers of 3M and 3 layers of gorilla packing tape on top help keep tires and tools from damaging the 3M
I've had no issue with my front stock wheel converted 40,000 miles ago.
3m stuff rocks! I run multiple layers plus mtb tubeless tape
Jesus Christ! This guy just wouldn't give up... At this point a theoretical tube puncture would be less probable than those 4 acidents you had because of the conversion.
Correct! The Outex kit doesn’t work well on the T7 because of the narrow sealing tape and large spoke nipples.
I now have over 80,000 miles on the set of Alpina Tubeless wheels and around 30,000 miles on the converted wheels where I used a proper size sealing tape.
dude tube is only 20 $ and 20 min jop tubes ftw
Wow, can't catch a break huh? Air bleeds through tape = blowout. Install tube. Sheers off the stem = blowout. Yeeesh
50,000 miles a year on a Tenere? You should be riding bagger!
That was Last year. Put 100K on the Star Venture before going back to adventure bikes. Does everything I want on road plus dirt! It all in how you set it up.
You need to research Paul.
I hate tubeless. I've tried it a number of times on bicycles mostly with negative results.
On a motorbike tubes let go of all the air suddenly
@@xtc2v not in my experience. And definitely not the case in bicycles.
@@aaron___6014 Wait till you get the experience. You won't enjoy it
@@xtc2v but a tubeless setup won't lose air quickly, ever?
@@aaron___6014 Then why did you state "I hate tubeless" 2 months ago? Many punctures in tubeless just result in a slow flat. Often it is possible to put a bit of air in and carefully ride home especially if the tyre's got some sealant in it. Sealant doesn't work properly on tubes because the tube wall thickness is only a couple of mm
Probably because the bikes loaded like a dump truck! 🤣🤣🤣
I am a minimalist.
Everything I own is on my bike! Only 80k miles on a 2021 Tenere, enjoying it, but wish I had more time to ride.