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haha. But seriously, I'm trying to introduce this in phases to play with the algorithm. Did you get here from randomly checking my channel main page? Thanks for always being here btw!
I thought this was a decent sized channel until I checked the comments. You certainly deserve more attention! That aside, I've actually tried a few times to introduce my parents to games I thought they'd like, but overall they couldn't understand much of it. It's nice to see someone making videos specifically for this purpose, to teach someone who hasn't played a game how to play a game.
I imagine playtesters would turn around to go and save, before progressing onward through each room, so the extra save points were so that players don't do that.
@@bro748 but I think that then two save points would be fine. But man 3 is too much, like if asgore talked 99 lines then It could have a little of sense to do It but with just one It would be enough.
@@CoasterThoosie1709 Yah, well I mean that just ands more shock to it. After Asgore's speech with all the emotions only to be cut off by that evil bitch Flowey .
to be fair. deltarune is kinda specifically meant for people whove played undertale. so on top of accessibility for people like this not being a priority in games, its probably even less of one in deltarune
Yeah, I probably could have chosen more carefully. I know at the time, I just needed a base game to see major concepts my mom was struggling with, and saw chapter one was three hours. Thanks for the comment!
Yes, for players who played Undertale, the opening would be great: learning that in this game your choices don't matter, seeing the old goat mum again, talking to familiar faces even if they are not as friendly as in Undertale. But for those who haven't played Undertale, it would be like torture: the character you designed is just thrown, you need to look at a long scene while doing nothing, talking to nearly the whole class, and then another scene without options......
on-top of that, Undertale and Deltarune are both specifically meant for people who have played enough RPGs to get the jokes and the references. I don't think Toby expects anyone who hasn't played games before to even consider playing either. EDIT: shit someone already said that whoops
You can set autorun for your mom so she doesnt need to press shift. I'm a gamer but I use it because it really makes it simpler and I can focus on dialogue
@@snarpking what? No. The challenge is to allow the mom to play the game. Its not typical for games like these to need more than two keys at a time unless theyre some combo based fighting game, or we're counting mouse buttons but those are their own thing. Whenever its an rpg like this and theres a running button but no stamina, theres autorun available 90% of the time. And i always use it🖕
Me at the beginning: i'm sure it will go great, the game is already easy,how can anything go wrong? Me after the 4 first minute: all is ashes. there is no hope
That's the thing, it's easy to the gamer who has played many games before and as a result knows what to do. It is far more difficult to jump into this game cold turkey without any prior gaming experience, much less no undertale experience.
I think some solutions to the buttom puzzle would be: -The easiest one: Set autorun -The harder one: Extend the timer -The best one: Make a clone of the puzzle but w/o the timer prior to that room
It feels like Undertale and Deltarune are like, the opposite of games that should be used for this. The whole reason these games were loved was that they played with expectations of what these games were like. (Deltarune itself is sort of a double parody since in a way it's playing on your Undertale expectations.) With no expectations it's just an odd gaming experience. I think there's also an important factor in considering what kinds of things they already like. If someone isn't into puzzles, then the puzzle sections of Deltarune would be double frustrating because their inexperience makes them take thrice as long on a section they just want to be over and done with in the first place. But if they're a puzzle nerd then they may just get bored with the rest. There's too much variety in Deltarune because, again, it's playing on both Undertale and general gameplay tropes. But a new gamer should probably start with a game dedicated to one concept and playing it mostly straight. Baba Is You I find is a great non-gamer puzzle game. My grandma plays it and I barely had to show her what things did. (In general the less controls there are the easier it is for people to grasp, because there's less time fiddling with those and more time focusing on the game itself.) For strategy, Pokemon may be a decent choice - particularly the ones that denote type effectiveness for you on the menu rather than making you memorise the type chart. Ace Attorney may also be a decent choice - there's NO movement whatsoever, and it's all menus. I noticed your mom skipped cutscenes and dialog and such, and thus didn't seem to want to track the story in this story-driven game. A lot of non-gamers only view games through the lens of Mario and mobile games where story has never been a thing. Ace Attorney might be a nice way to show people that games can be storytelling tools because the game itself is about paying attention to the story. My grandmother plays this too.
@@thehamburger4596 I'm the parent. Played Undertale with my (at the time) 8 year old, doing voices and silly stuff. At 14, told me they only agreed to play was to appease me 😭 and that's why I play Roblox and Genshin Impact with them today
15:58 In Toby's defense, Deltarune is labelled as a game "for people who have completed Undertale." He designed it with the fact in mind that people playing it are already familiar with Undertale, both from a mechanical and character perspective.
this is adorable. I remember how i wanted to share my favourite games with my mom when i was a kid but she wasnt interested in the slightest (she was instrumental in finishing altered beast, though). You unearthed very sweet memories for me, thank you :')
I got my mother to play Ms Pacman Maze Madness for the PS1 for like 4 hours straight once, but she just says that she doesn't have the time to even care about games And has never played anything else since But it's ok, she has other hobbies and stuff
I was playing Undertale when my mom was interested in what I was playing thought she would be interested but the problem is eeeeeeeeeh I'm already fighting Asgore
With all due respect,Deltarune and undertale are atrocious as beginner gamers. There’s just so much in regards to there narrative structure that relies on the audience knowing video game tropes and conventions, that mean nothing to a non gamer. For example the whole sparing mechanic ,is unique and innovative to a Gamer who is used to killing every thing they see, but literally means nothing to a non gamer ,and so many small details and jokes will straight up not make sense. Add to that the density and plot heaviness of these games which may seem great at first ,but a lot of new gamers have this just cross the finish line mentality which will make them frustrated when they find a lot of side content, pile all that up with small genre shifts ,deltarune’s extremely hard hidden bosses and way more ,to make those tow games horrible as beginner gamers.
I agree, as soon as it got to her not enjoying the dialogue in addition to not understanding the subversion it felt like this was kind of like starting next to the finish line.
I don't fully agree. Undertale was my first exposure to rpgs and games, and i loved it. I feel like people are selling it short. Undertale isn't just about subversion.
Yeah thats something true, I first introduced one of my Friends to deltarune and he got bored, then I introduced him to Undertale and It was so much better. Undertale has his mecanics a little more explained and It is linear with little things to worry. The you go to deltarune to chapter 2 for example and you have: 1° The enemy 2° HP of member 3° HP of enemy 4° Spare metter 5° Toilet paper 6° All the action botons 7° The TP heart shape that appears when you are close to a bullet, making you think the hitbox of the heart is bigger. 8° The form to attack enemies. 9° Multiplicate the point 2 and 6 by 3 because you have 3 Party members. 10° Multiplicate the points 1,3 and 4 by 3 because you can have 3 enemies at the screen at a time. Then you have Undertale Battle sistem that is: 1° Four bottons 2° Your HP 3° 3 enemies at Max 4° Enemies HP 5° Battle system And nothing more.
Well, anywhere you get Deltarune it says the game is designed for those who have already beaten Undertale, so it probably isn't designed to be the most beginner friendly.
@@littlemoth4956 Well, what about the vessel creation scene? That made his Mom get frustrated at the lack of agency, since she didn't have the context of Undertale.
@@littlemoth4956 ...they never specified it was exclusively gameplay. Both are intended after Undertale. Seeing Toriel, the lack of choices, talking to the NPCs. All of it is based on Undertale.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 My comment was saying that Deltarune wasn't made for beginners, then they replied saying it was only the story that wasn't meant for beginners, so I argued against it.
And this is why TobyFox said the game is for those who have already played Undertale, I believe that game already explained you what to do in every situation (even teaching you the controls before the game started)
Neither of my parent ever had issues picking up how to play videogames. I remember both of them finishing or nearly finishing some of my ps1 games when I was a kid. But if I ask my mom to play videogames now she says that just looking at a controller gives her arthritis. Of course, she doesn't actually have arthritis, she just finds them uncomfortable for some reason.
I have a small suggestion to put the manual you made into the game more diegetically. Perhaps make the manual Ralsei gives you display the one you made by pressing a specific button? For example if someone is still confused they can just press H for help. Maybe even expand the Manual in chapter 2?
I think that not caring about the story is kind of a big detrement to this entire test, cuz thats what this game is about. The characters and their story. not caring about it is kind of problematic to the experience.
Cool video! Though I personally wouldn’t have a non-gamer play Deltarune given it plays with not only RPG mechanics but also Undertale’s mechanics. Also stickers are epic.
With your video and having played tunic I must say: BRING 👏 BACK 👏 MANUALS 👏 They are pretty, they are collectables, they are helpful, and they only cost max 0.20$ to print and ship
Please bring back manuals, goodness sakes. I've been playing video games since 1992 and even still, my choices are 1) stare at Lets Plays for +1hr (getting spoiled), 2) stare at the manual for an hour to get comfortable with the controls and displays, 3) be lost and overwhelmed. Please. My neurodivergent nerves can't take this.
You know, watching this video brought back a buried memory within me. Like, this was exactly how I was when I first played Video Games. It didn’t help that I played Counterstrike for most of that time which crippled my initial idea of what controls are when it came to emulators on keyboard, but that’s besides the point. Man, just thinking of all the things I did back then that would have made me now look at myself in mild contempt...
Hey, have you heard of a game called Chicory: A Colorful Tale? It's an indie game made by the people who did Wandersong, Night in the Woods, Untitled Goose Game, and Celeste. Anyways, I made my mom try it and it's the first game that she's ever beaten. :D It would be cool if you could maybe check that out
This reminds me of that time I bought the new animal crossing for the switch because I wanted to share an Island with my mother and thought she would understand the gameplay because we played the animal crossing mobile game a lot. Oh I was wrong, she ended up frustrated and losing interest in the game. Mainly because she had to learn to use a lot of buttons while in the mobile game you just do everything with just one tap on the screen.
ACNH was the first game I could convince my mom to play with me since Mario Kart 64, but those controls can be a lot up front. There's not a whole lot of time pressure outside of bugs and fish a bit
Really? Your mom has no patience then. I was new to the switch when it came out and I figured it out pretty quickly. Of course I had the experience of having played City Folk, but those were TOTALLY different controls.
@@Nakia11798 My mother is a middle aged woman that has never played a console or pc videogame, its different. You have the experience of playing city folk in another console, she has none.
This is actually a good thing to consider when creating a game. Because there's always an odd chance that someone picks up your game and it's their first game.
Nah, the month helped reset her memory so the second test attempt was less effected from the first attempt. Love the positive energy though lol. Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment!
I like the fact you admitted Susie got to your Mom. I haven’t seen anyone admit it, but the little Barney is surprisingly hurtful 😢. She’s such a wonderful bully!
11:06 I used to see this alot with my Sister, Mom and others who isn’t good or never played video games, like they literally cant press 2 at the same time, for example and the most Common one for me is, Holding forward which is (D) or (->) and pressing [SpaceBar] to jump forward. They cant do those 2 together and it takes them ALOT of tries to do it successfully or get used to it.
My dad found the undertale battles to hard so he personally asked me to beat them. Something that he couldn’t beat (he died like- 10 times I beat once) he also said that omega flowey is nightmare fuel true and not true I think that omega flowey is funny
I remember games like ODST having super detailed, seemingly obvious tutorial stuff. I think this video helps me appreciate those features more. Not all of us were interested in vidya games as kids. Those things help. I think game designers have forgotten that a bit.
In this series, I'd like to see a video for the game Cuphead. My father enjoys watching old black and white films as well as old color films, and Cuphead is the closest thing to a return to that era, so I'm trying to persuade him to play it. So having a video in this series for that game would be helpful.
Yeah, undertale is very unforgiving when it comes to battles. A simple "oh god get it away" reaction that leads to DARING to use the attack button alters the game's story unfavorably and irrevocably. You can't get the bestest ending if you hurt poor froggit who shows up when you lag slightly behind goatmom
With your mom defeating the king on her second try, the same thing happened to me. While I do tend to know the pattern of Toby Fox games, I am absolutely horrible at fights and the like (for example, it took me 2 hours to defeat the mini game with the Queen that is supposed to take you 30-60 seconds that ends up being the same thing as the final battle with her. also it took me way too many tries to defeat berdly in chapter 2...). I died so many times in chapter 1 to small environmental mechanics and then it only took me 2 tries to defeat the king. Idk if the King just weird, or your mom and I got lucky, but its interesting to note. Like, one of my friends who is very good at games also took 3 tries and that was the first time they died in the game. Who knows!
I get why your mom would struggle with the doors in Deltarune. Seriously every time I've played Deltarune since 2018 I've accidentally walked back through those goddamn doors at least once. Seriously what was Toby Fox thinking when he designed those doors lol
As someone who played very few games before and taught herself Deltarune, I could relate to some of the issues your mom was having. I had played Undertale before, so I understood the concept of the game and dodging. However I had trouble opening the menus, didn't know how to equip items until halfway through the first chapter, got frustrated at the opening of the game, had to ask my brother how to hook up an xbox controller instead of the computer keyboard because I didn't understand the buttons. I also conpletely forgot healing items were a thing whenever I fought and eventually defeated Queen because the mechanics of the robot battle was so unfamiliar. Now, Deltarune is one of my favorite games and I'm on my third replay now.
So it wasn't a never played video games friend but he definitely wasn't used to PC or rugs and some how managed the out of bounds glitch in Undertale's leaf path puzzle. The game even did the little trumpet fanfare. He glitched it so hard they had to congratulate him. I took the keyboard away.
10:44 I can confirm that this is really hard for people who aren't even new to video games. My friend kept trying so hard on this that it was actually sad to see.
Thanks I needed this because my dad kept trying to throw my Spamton plushie into the trash and I needed to get him to play the game so he can get to know how glorious that little gremlin was. I’m going to try it tomorrow :D
that reminds me of when i gave my uncle the nintendo switch and was actually pretty good at it, he just finished the thrash machine which thank god was 0.1% duck, i think he awas only good at it beacuse he's also a gamer
You gotta respect the 2nd attempt of test 1 Never got them bored. It’s not a boring game, it cn be a frustrating. You don’t expect everything. I like that.
Thanks for your suggestion! Undertale seems to be a bit long I think to start new players with, and the narrative revolves around new gaming concepts like saving, loading, and choice. So I chose to not test it. If you run a test like this with Undertale, I'd love to hear about it though!
@@EtrasGames4NonGamers That's fair, but you don't have the ruthless button puzzle in Undertale and a semi-complex battle system. But as you said, the narrative revolves around alien concepts to new players, which would leave the story dull and confusing. If I can find somebody I know who doesn't play a lot of videogames, then I'll run a test with Undertale (I can't do it with my parents because they know what saving, loading and choice is, and are pretty gaming experienced (And they have watched me and my sister play deltarune with us)), and I'll tell you about it, if I can :)
You know, deltarune was made with the fact you’ve either seen someone play undertale or have played it yourself, undertale would’ve been a good game to start with.
I never thought about it, but yeah, I see exactly how the sudden Lancer battle broke your mom- It’s so natural to people who play video games, but to her, she was constantly shifting between menu controls for option selection and walking controls for attack dodging without being super familiar with either, also not knowing exactly when it would happen, and Lancer’s attacks are fairly surprising- unlike earlier damage sources which fire projectiles you can see approaching you, Lancer has a small ‘going right here!’ warning before he breaks all established rules of receiving attacks.
The general idea and basis of this channel is one of the most genius things I’ve seen in a while! As an average Pro Gamer, every time my family has a game night and someone chooses to play video game that isn’t Mario kart or a party game, everyone expected me is having an overall frustration time. I really appreciate what your doing here and my family definitely does as well!
LEEET'S GOOO! I was just seeing your other videos of FNAF and Deltarune so I can share them with a friend, thank god I actually scrolled down to the comments section xd
To be Frank, I don’t think deltarune of all games is the best game for people who don’t play video games. Then again I’m a casual gamer who beat this game on my first try so idk. Cool video :D
Being fair, Deltarune, a game made to deconstruct what was introduced in Undertale which by itself it's a game that deconstructs the entire classic RPG genre, shouldn't actually be a game that you would use to introduce someone to Video Games
@@tixrox4678 Didn't know he existed till after completing chapter 2. Died a couple of times in chapter 2 tho, w/o doing NEO. I have many deaths now after doing a separate save with Jevil, Snowgrave, and NEO.
its a crime that you have only 310 subs, i would've assume you'd at least have a few thousand!!! ive always wanted to get my family into the games i like :D
Wait, what? They only have a few hundred subs? Based on the quality of the video and how good it was, I assumed they had like, at least 20k!!! This person needs more support!
I have been trying to teach my dad to play games for a while .i managed to get two games he likes to play : donut county and Animal Crossing . He had been trying to teach himself deltarune though and i gave him this version of it and now he has beat undertale . Thank you so much
Is it really this hard for new players to get basic puzzles in deltarune? Like it seems like its just these types of people don't possess critical thinking skills. I could be wrong, but it's really hard to imagine these puzzles/cause-effect relationships are really hard to grasp for people.
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Link to Guides and Modpack ► bit.ly/3qyVQ4t
End of Test Google Form ► forms.gle/EUMYQxmpNj3DbYhz7
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(P.S. If you know me from another channel, or are getting deja vu. Don't worry, this is just part of my ploy to move my Games For Non-Gamers over to this new place I'll detail more later about the channel swap and non-gamer curriculum so subscribe to be updated! )
let me just dust off my old alt accounts real quick, I'll boost that number up for you. /s
haha. But seriously, I'm trying to introduce this in phases to play with the algorithm. Did you get here from randomly checking my channel main page? Thanks for always being here btw!
I thought this was a decent sized channel until I checked the comments. You certainly deserve more attention!
That aside, I've actually tried a few times to introduce my parents to games I thought they'd like, but overall they couldn't understand much of it. It's nice to see someone making videos specifically for this purpose, to teach someone who hasn't played a game how to play a game.
@@EtrasGames4NonGamers The algorithm showed me while browsing deltarune Videos. I must say this channel is VERY underrated so I gave you a sub 👍
Wow 3.51 now, channel’s growing. And fast.
14:42
also Toby Fox: **puts 3 save points before and after you meet Asgore, even though nothing literally happens in those rooms**
I imagine playtesters would turn around to go and save, before progressing onward through each room, so the extra save points were so that players don't do that.
@@bro748 but I think that then two save points would be fine. But man 3 is too much, like if asgore talked 99 lines then It could have a little of sense to do It but with just one It would be enough.
@@masterblaster38 I think it wasn't for actual game functions but for more emotional reasons it helps to show that the journey really is "over"
@@bankrobs2893 but the next thing you know flowey has over written your save file and became a abomination
@@CoasterThoosie1709 Yah, well I mean that just ands more shock to it. After Asgore's speech with all the emotions only to be cut off by that evil bitch Flowey .
to be fair. deltarune is kinda specifically meant for people whove played undertale. so on top of accessibility for people like this not being a priority in games, its probably even less of one in deltarune
Yeah, I probably could have chosen more carefully. I know at the time, I just needed a base game to see major concepts my mom was struggling with, and saw chapter one was three hours. Thanks for the comment!
Yes, for players who played Undertale, the opening would be great: learning that in this game your choices don't matter, seeing the old goat mum again, talking to familiar faces even if they are not as friendly as in Undertale. But for those who haven't played Undertale, it would be like torture: the character you designed is just thrown, you need to look at a long scene while doing nothing, talking to nearly the whole class, and then another scene without options......
Undertale might be too hard for new players. Starts with only 20 HP. Confusing beginning of flowey. Soul types. Coloured switch puzzle and more
on-top of that, Undertale and Deltarune are both specifically meant for people who have played enough RPGs to get the jokes and the references. I don't think Toby expects anyone who hasn't played games before to even consider playing either.
EDIT: shit someone already said that whoops
@@Firefly256 Well, you can quickly get a lot more health that. ;)
You can set autorun for your mom so she doesnt need to press shift. I'm a gamer but I use it because it really makes it simpler and I can focus on dialogue
True, but I think that teaching the player to press shift themselves is really part of the challenge here.
I prefer the autorun. I have too much muscle memory from the default settings to switch to it
@@snarpking what? No. The challenge is to allow the mom to play the game. Its not typical for games like these to need more than two keys at a time unless theyre some combo based fighting game, or we're counting mouse buttons but those are their own thing. Whenever its an rpg like this and theres a running button but no stamina, theres autorun available 90% of the time. And i always use it🖕
as a gamer, I tend to instinctively hold shift, lol.
@@someguystudios23 I press shift in games that don't have sprinting lmao
Me at the beginning: i'm sure it will go great, the game is already easy,how can anything go wrong?
Me after the 4 first minute: all is ashes. there is no hope
@Kold the hard part is figuring out the place where the stars don’t shine. I doubt you could ever find that
That's the thing, it's easy to the gamer who has played many games before and as a result knows what to do.
It is far more difficult to jump into this game cold turkey without any prior gaming experience, much less no undertale experience.
I think some solutions to the buttom puzzle would be:
-The easiest one: Set autorun
-The harder one: Extend the timer
-The best one: Make a clone of the puzzle but w/o the timer prior to that room
You could also make an NPC or sign that says something about it
lancer gang
@@racim3443 *Spins in the air at 2 fps*
it is so boring to do a thing two times in a row
It feels like Undertale and Deltarune are like, the opposite of games that should be used for this. The whole reason these games were loved was that they played with expectations of what these games were like. (Deltarune itself is sort of a double parody since in a way it's playing on your Undertale expectations.) With no expectations it's just an odd gaming experience.
I think there's also an important factor in considering what kinds of things they already like. If someone isn't into puzzles, then the puzzle sections of Deltarune would be double frustrating because their inexperience makes them take thrice as long on a section they just want to be over and done with in the first place. But if they're a puzzle nerd then they may just get bored with the rest. There's too much variety in Deltarune because, again, it's playing on both Undertale and general gameplay tropes.
But a new gamer should probably start with a game dedicated to one concept and playing it mostly straight. Baba Is You I find is a great non-gamer puzzle game. My grandma plays it and I barely had to show her what things did. (In general the less controls there are the easier it is for people to grasp, because there's less time fiddling with those and more time focusing on the game itself.) For strategy, Pokemon may be a decent choice - particularly the ones that denote type effectiveness for you on the menu rather than making you memorise the type chart.
Ace Attorney may also be a decent choice - there's NO movement whatsoever, and it's all menus. I noticed your mom skipped cutscenes and dialog and such, and thus didn't seem to want to track the story in this story-driven game. A lot of non-gamers only view games through the lens of Mario and mobile games where story has never been a thing. Ace Attorney might be a nice way to show people that games can be storytelling tools because the game itself is about paying attention to the story. My grandmother plays this too.
SquikSquok
Gaymers
Words.
Werdel.
Worldle
When you're the parent that plays Undertale and Deltarune, trying to inspire their kid to play
Cool parent
This dude is breaking the laws of universe
Dudes a whole ass anomaly to this world
are you the parent?
i mean if i get older and have a kid it would probably be me saying that lol
@@thehamburger4596 I'm the parent. Played Undertale with my (at the time) 8 year old, doing voices and silly stuff. At 14, told me they only agreed to play was to appease me 😭 and that's why I play Roblox and Genshin Impact with them today
15:58 In Toby's defense, Deltarune is labelled as a game "for people who have completed Undertale." He designed it with the fact in mind that people playing it are already familiar with Undertale, both from a mechanical and character perspective.
Susie: "Can't you walk any faster?"
Legit the mom playing the game: *Yeets laptop right out of a window*
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Rolamosios
Flow right off a cliff
FloChart™
WA to the SD
this is adorable. I remember how i wanted to share my favourite games with my mom when i was a kid but she wasnt interested in the slightest (she was instrumental in finishing altered beast, though). You unearthed very sweet memories for me, thank you :')
Thanks for the comment. It made me smile :)
I got my mother to play Ms Pacman Maze Madness for the PS1 for like 4 hours straight once, but she just says that she doesn't have the time to even care about games
And has never played anything else since
But it's ok, she has other hobbies and stuff
same lol
Do it for Undertale so the Pope can finally play his copy
Bold of you to assume the pope is a non-gamer.
@@EtrasGames4NonGamers fun fact: the pope loves to listen to Megalovania
@@randomguy377 + owns a copy of undertale given to him by Matpat
I still cringe at matpat's decision to this day
@@jevilstail why
I was playing Undertale when my mom was interested in what I was playing
thought she would be interested but the problem is eeeeeeeeeh
I'm already fighting Asgore
Lol The same thing happened to me the first time I played undertale but with my grandmother
I’ve already did everything I wanted to do in the game so I’ll delete the save file without thinking twice
My mom will only play gta burn out and goat sim
@Asher Jay Muffet, a donater requested it as a play on the girl scared of a spider
Nah dude, your mom is just a gaming god. Clearly from that checkers section, she's built for speedrunning.
With all due respect,Deltarune and undertale are atrocious as beginner gamers. There’s just so much in regards to there narrative structure that relies on the audience knowing video game tropes and conventions, that mean nothing to a non gamer. For example the whole sparing mechanic ,is unique and innovative to a Gamer who is used to killing every thing they see, but literally means nothing to a non gamer ,and so many small details and jokes will straight up not make sense. Add to that the density and plot heaviness of these games which may seem great at first ,but a lot of new gamers have this just cross the finish line mentality which will make them frustrated when they find a lot of side content, pile all that up with small genre shifts ,deltarune’s extremely hard hidden bosses and way more ,to make those tow games horrible as beginner gamers.
Undertale will absolutely screw them over if they go genocide because of how RPGs normally go
I agree, as soon as it got to her not enjoying the dialogue in addition to not understanding the subversion it felt like this was kind of like starting next to the finish line.
I don't fully agree. Undertale was my first exposure to rpgs and games, and i loved it. I feel like people are selling it short. Undertale isn't just about subversion.
Not only dependent on other games
But despite what the game claims, it also expects you to understand what Undertale is like
Me press the read more button:
Yeah thats something true, I first introduced one of my Friends to deltarune and he got bored, then I introduced him to Undertale and It was so much better. Undertale has his mecanics a little more explained and It is linear with little things to worry.
The you go to deltarune to chapter 2 for example and you have:
1° The enemy
2° HP of member
3° HP of enemy
4° Spare metter
5° Toilet paper
6° All the action botons
7° The TP heart shape that appears when you are close to a bullet, making you think the hitbox of the heart is bigger.
8° The form to attack enemies.
9° Multiplicate the point 2 and 6 by 3 because you have 3 Party members.
10° Multiplicate the points 1,3 and 4 by 3 because you can have 3 enemies at the screen at a time.
Then you have Undertale Battle sistem that is:
1° Four bottons
2° Your HP
3° 3 enemies at Max
4° Enemies HP
5° Battle system
And nothing more.
In Deltarune's defense it did say it was not for people who hadn't played Undertale
I'm proud of your mom for persevering through something that must have been so alien to her at first.
Well, anywhere you get Deltarune it says the game is designed for those who have already beaten Undertale, so it probably isn't designed to be the most beginner friendly.
*Story-wise. Watch the video and you see the same beginner pitfalls as any other game
@@littlemoth4956 Well, what about the vessel creation scene? That made his Mom get frustrated at the lack of agency, since she didn't have the context of Undertale.
@@littlemoth4956 ...they never specified it was exclusively gameplay.
Both are intended after Undertale. Seeing Toriel, the lack of choices, talking to the NPCs.
All of it is based on Undertale.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 My comment was saying that Deltarune wasn't made for beginners, then they replied saying it was only the story that wasn't meant for beginners, so I argued against it.
Well, Ralsei's tutorial is better than Flowey's or Toriel's sooo
And this is why TobyFox said the game is for those who have already played Undertale, I believe that game already explained you what to do in every situation (even teaching you the controls before the game started)
Lack of foresight is still lack of foresight, no matter which way you spell it. Same with how lack of accessibility is still a lack of accessibility.
Neither of my parent ever had issues picking up how to play videogames. I remember both of them finishing or nearly finishing some of my ps1 games when I was a kid. But if I ask my mom to play videogames now she says that just looking at a controller gives her arthritis. Of course, she doesn't actually have arthritis, she just finds them uncomfortable for some reason.
I think it's repetitive stress injury? Or kinda like carpal tunnel
One of my cousins can't do joysticks for too long, makes her thumb start to ache
because controllers are extremely uncomfortable
I have a small suggestion to put the manual you made into the game more diegetically. Perhaps make the manual Ralsei gives you display the one you made by pressing a specific button? For example if someone is still confused they can just press H for help. Maybe even expand the Manual in chapter 2?
Lmao your mom beating the chaos king in only 2 tries is hilarious to me, I think it took me 3 tries too
I think that not caring about the story is kind of a big detrement to this entire test, cuz thats what this game is about. The characters and their story. not caring about it is kind of problematic to the experience.
Cool video! Though I personally wouldn’t have a non-gamer play Deltarune given it plays with not only RPG mechanics but also Undertale’s mechanics. Also stickers are epic.
With your video and having played tunic I must say:
BRING 👏 BACK 👏 MANUALS 👏
They are pretty, they are collectables, they are helpful, and they only cost max 0.20$ to print and ship
Ralsei tried his hardest to give a manual to us... :(
Please bring back manuals, goodness sakes.
I've been playing video games since 1992 and even still, my choices are 1) stare at Lets Plays for +1hr (getting spoiled), 2) stare at the manual for an hour to get comfortable with the controls and displays, 3) be lost and overwhelmed. Please. My neurodivergent nerves can't take this.
You know, watching this video brought back a buried memory within me.
Like, this was exactly how I was when I first played Video Games.
It didn’t help that I played Counterstrike for most of that time which crippled my initial idea of what controls are when it came to emulators on keyboard, but that’s besides the point.
Man, just thinking of all the things I did back then that would have made me now look at myself in mild contempt...
Susie making fun of how slow she walks. Oh my god, I feel so bad about that now 😭
Hey, have you heard of a game called Chicory: A Colorful Tale?
It's an indie game made by the people who did Wandersong, Night in the Woods, Untitled Goose Game, and Celeste.
Anyways, I made my mom try it and it's the first game that she's ever beaten. :D It would be cool if you could maybe check that out
A lot of deltarunes gameplay and mechanics come from undertale so it would be fun to see you try this with undertale
Was confused for a second before understanding that 7:21 is a very subtle Undertale reference! Clever.
I can only wonder the stress and how nervous this dude was to make his MOM play this
Her mom saw purple dog trying to eat yo face in a cutscenes
This reminds me of that time I bought the new animal crossing for the switch because I wanted to share an Island with my mother and thought she would understand the gameplay because we played the animal crossing mobile game a lot.
Oh I was wrong, she ended up frustrated and losing interest in the game. Mainly because she had to learn to use a lot of buttons while in the mobile game you just do everything with just one tap on the screen.
ACNH was the first game I could convince my mom to play with me since Mario Kart 64, but those controls can be a lot up front. There's not a whole lot of time pressure outside of bugs and fish a bit
Really? Your mom has no patience then. I was new to the switch when it came out and I figured it out pretty quickly. Of course I had the experience of having played City Folk, but those were TOTALLY different controls.
@@Nakia11798 My mother is a middle aged woman that has never played a console or pc videogame, its different. You have the experience of playing city folk in another console, she has none.
16:14 It took me 5 TIMES and I'm a professional gamer!
This is actually a good thing to consider when creating a game.
Because there's always an odd chance that someone picks up your game and it's their first game.
just always make sure it doesn't bog down your game for those who already k own how to play games
like, press wasd to move lol
@@glyph__ Level 1: How to turn on your device...
@@Solesteam lmao
Hey! Thanks for using my tool and for the shoutout!
Thanks for creating the debug tool! I hope you are able to help more people with this.
I actually made my mother play deltarune and she beat both chapters, and she only plays *mobile games*
game design is really complicated and im glad im one of the people who can understand it
this guy only had 219?
bruh he deserve more attention
They have a main channel called etra's games. This channel was made recently
7:35 IN A MONTH?! I would have told my mom to get back in there lmao.
Nah, the month helped reset her memory so the second test attempt was less effected from the first attempt. Love the positive energy though lol. Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment!
I like the fact you admitted Susie got to your Mom. I haven’t seen anyone admit it, but the little Barney is surprisingly hurtful 😢. She’s such a wonderful bully!
11:06 I used to see this alot with my Sister, Mom and others who isn’t good or never played video games, like they literally cant press 2 at the same time, for example and the most Common one for me is, Holding forward which is (D) or (->) and pressing [SpaceBar] to jump forward.
They cant do those 2 together and it takes them ALOT of tries to do it successfully or get used to it.
I hope to alleviate these issues by teaching this specific skill in future custom programs
My dad found the undertale battles to hard so he personally asked me to beat them. Something that he couldn’t beat (he died like- 10 times I beat once) he also said that omega flowey is nightmare fuel true and not true I think that omega flowey is funny
10:58 I love how the guy is playing Mario kart 8 deluxe with a Wii remote on an xbox
Make all logic break
I remember games like ODST having super detailed, seemingly obvious tutorial stuff. I think this video helps me appreciate those features more. Not all of us were interested in vidya games as kids. Those things help. I think game designers have forgotten that a bit.
Then there's Jevil, who can make Chaos.
In this series, I'd like to see a video for the game Cuphead. My father enjoys watching old black and white films as well as old color films, and Cuphead is the closest thing to a return to that era, so I'm trying to persuade him to play it. So having a video in this series for that game would be helpful.
Interesting. I guess I never noticed that. Thanks for the comment!
16:42 Considering how she went through Deltarune I'm concerned... You should probably advise her *not* to grind exp beforehand.
Yeah, undertale is very unforgiving when it comes to battles. A simple "oh god get it away" reaction that leads to DARING to use the attack button alters the game's story unfavorably and irrevocably. You can't get the bestest ending if you hurt poor froggit who shows up when you lag slightly behind goatmom
actually neither undertale not deltarune story are altered THAT much if you fight through the enemy (deltarune chapter 1 definitely)
Your mom has an interesting son, that’s for sure.
:). Thanks for watching!
With your mom defeating the king on her second try, the same thing happened to me. While I do tend to know the pattern of Toby Fox games, I am absolutely horrible at fights and the like (for example, it took me 2 hours to defeat the mini game with the Queen that is supposed to take you 30-60 seconds that ends up being the same thing as the final battle with her. also it took me way too many tries to defeat berdly in chapter 2...). I died so many times in chapter 1 to small environmental mechanics and then it only took me 2 tries to defeat the king.
Idk if the King just weird, or your mom and I got lucky, but its interesting to note. Like, one of my friends who is very good at games also took 3 tries and that was the first time they died in the game. Who knows!
Congrats, the algorithm has blessed you!
It truly has. Thanks for watching!
I get why your mom would struggle with the doors in Deltarune. Seriously every time I've played Deltarune since 2018 I've accidentally walked back through those goddamn doors at least once. Seriously what was Toby Fox thinking when he designed those doors lol
You should do that for Undertale as well! Im interested in your Mom's reaction to Omega Flowey lol
3:32 I honestly laughed whenever I first encountered the “your creation will now be discarded” thing
13:34
i thought that "you could walk in this puuzle no problem" was common knowledge :d
I'm here before this channel blows up for being genuinely fun, and informational!
I might be able to show MY mom deltarune now XD
I just discovered this channel, and it is SO interesting !!!!!
As someone who played very few games before and taught herself Deltarune, I could relate to some of the issues your mom was having. I had played Undertale before, so I understood the concept of the game and dodging. However I had trouble opening the menus, didn't know how to equip items until halfway through the first chapter, got frustrated at the opening of the game, had to ask my brother how to hook up an xbox controller instead of the computer keyboard because I didn't understand the buttons. I also conpletely forgot healing items were a thing whenever I fought and eventually defeated Queen because the mechanics of the robot battle was so unfamiliar. Now, Deltarune is one of my favorite games and I'm on my third replay now.
So it wasn't a never played video games friend but he definitely wasn't used to PC or rugs and some how managed the out of bounds glitch in Undertale's leaf path puzzle. The game even did the little trumpet fanfare. He glitched it so hard they had to congratulate him. I took the keyboard away.
10:44 I can confirm that this is really hard for people who aren't even new to video games. My friend kept trying so hard on this that it was actually sad to see.
14:42
also Toby Fox: *puts 3 save points before and after you meet Asgore, even though nothing literally happens in those rooms*
8:37
bro
you are basically saying that gamer's keyboard are better for non-gamers???
mind blowing
6:47 Me if I were to make any deltarune mod
Literally teaching games to non-gamers is near impossible unless they want to learn. Cool video tho
Thanks I needed this because my dad kept trying to throw my Spamton plushie into the trash and I needed to get him to play the game so he can get to know how glorious that little gremlin was. I’m going to try it tomorrow :D
that reminds me of when i gave my uncle the nintendo switch and was actually pretty good at it, he just finished the thrash machine which thank god was 0.1% duck, i think he awas only good at it beacuse he's also a gamer
This also reminds me of when i told my cousin about omori and she started playing it but NEVER REACHED OTHERWORLD YET
You gotta respect the 2nd attempt of test 1 Never got them bored. It’s not a boring game, it cn be a frustrating. You don’t expect everything. I like that.
Watching this taught me that the chaos king would have been easier if I didn’t only attack him 🙃
10:13
* You won!
* Got 68 D$.
* Mom became stronger.
I think it would have been a better idea to start with undertale because it is a lot simpler. But this is awesome, still!
Thanks for your suggestion! Undertale seems to be a bit long I think to start new players with, and the narrative revolves around new gaming concepts like saving, loading, and choice. So I chose to not test it. If you run a test like this with Undertale, I'd love to hear about it though!
@@EtrasGames4NonGamers That's fair, but you don't have the ruthless button puzzle in Undertale and a semi-complex battle system. But as you said, the narrative revolves around alien concepts to new players, which would leave the story dull and confusing. If I can find somebody I know who doesn't play a lot of videogames, then I'll run a test with Undertale (I can't do it with my parents because they know what saving, loading and choice is, and are pretty gaming experienced (And they have watched me and my sister play deltarune with us)), and I'll tell you about it, if I can :)
That would be great. Feel free to send me an email of the results to projectetraflow@gmail.com
@@EtrasGames4NonGamers Alrighty! Now time to find someone I know who is very gaming inexperienced (Or at least inexperienced with RPGs)... 😅
This is sweet they moded the game so she could enjoy it.
You know, deltarune was made with the fact you’ve either seen someone play undertale or have played it yourself, undertale would’ve been a good game to start with.
11:22 I was foolish to not expect a jojo reference
7:19 is that a reference to lesser dog lol
:) I like when people notice the little things. Thanks for watching!
I never thought about it, but yeah, I see exactly how the sudden Lancer battle broke your mom-
It’s so natural to people who play video games, but to her, she was constantly shifting between menu controls for option selection and walking controls for attack dodging without being super familiar with either, also not knowing exactly when it would happen, and Lancer’s attacks are fairly surprising- unlike earlier damage sources which fire projectiles you can see approaching you, Lancer has a small ‘going right here!’ warning before he breaks all established rules of receiving attacks.
I just realized this video only has 3k views, Wow, this deserves wayyy more
Behind the scenes maybe was funny i think. Like you were trying with all power to force mom to try playing deltarune
Him:"i upgraded the keyboard with a special ingredients-"
Sudden add:"Milk CHOCOLATE!"
Add some protein
My biggest worry was Jevil, but at least she didn't know.
The general idea and basis of this channel is one of the most genius things I’ve seen in a while! As an average Pro Gamer, every time my family has a game night and someone chooses to play video game that isn’t Mario kart or a party game, everyone expected me is having an overall frustration time. I really appreciate what your doing here and my family definitely does as well!
LEEET'S GOOO! I was just seeing your other videos of FNAF and Deltarune so I can share them with a friend, thank god I actually scrolled down to the comments section xd
No problem! Hope you enjoy!
Oh cool, a new channel.
Lmao. Of course you'd find this already. How did you get here?
To be Frank, I don’t think deltarune of all games is the best game for people who don’t play video games. Then again I’m a casual gamer who beat this game on my first try so idk.
Cool video :D
Your mom really is the queen of the universe, that was so wholesome lol
They make you jump into battle before the tutorial boss fight that teaches you everything
13:30 She experienced the joy of glitches
Being fair, Deltarune, a game made to deconstruct what was introduced in Undertale which by itself it's a game that deconstructs the entire classic RPG genre, shouldn't actually be a game that you would use to introduce someone to Video Games
Mad respect to his mom for calling tp toilet paper i dont even know what it actually stands for so thanks to your mom absolute legend
It does stand for toilet paper. At least for the puzzle dudes.
technically tension points but it can be toilet paper in our hearts
7:20 - There is no way to stop this madness.
16:27
Yeah, I beat this boss battle first try, and didn't die once in Deltarune yet (currently playing in the middle of Chapter 2).
Jevil?
@@tixrox4678 Didn't know he existed till after completing chapter 2. Died a couple of times in chapter 2 tho, w/o doing NEO.
I have many deaths now after doing a separate save with Jevil, Snowgrave, and NEO.
8:27 I want to hear complete that remix of FF fanfare
its a crime that you have only 310 subs, i would've assume you'd at least have a few thousand!!! ive always wanted to get my family into the games i like :D
Wait, what? They only have a few hundred subs? Based on the quality of the video and how good it was, I assumed they had like, at least 20k!!! This person needs more support!
His main channel has 80k subs, this is just a reupload on his second channel for some reason
Placing stickers on the keys seems like something Ralsei (or Toriel) would totally do. Wholesome, lol
Gonna agree with everyone here, it's hard to jump straight into Deltarune. You're gonna want your new gamers to read Homestuck first
I have been trying to teach my dad to play games for a while .i managed to get two games he likes to play : donut county and Animal Crossing . He had been trying to teach himself deltarune though and i gave him this version of it and now he has beat undertale . Thank you so much
Is it really this hard for new players to get basic puzzles in deltarune? Like it seems like its just these types of people don't possess critical thinking skills. I could be wrong, but it's really hard to imagine these puzzles/cause-effect relationships are really hard to grasp for people.
the guide you made makes me think that is what ralsei’s manual would be
When you write documents you do need to press the shift key with another button sometimes.
Your channel is super underrated! Do you plan on doing something similar with chapter 2?
that portal scenario at the beginning was the complete opposite for me. my dad showed me portal and i sucked at it and didnt know what to do lol.
I dont mind watching a full stream of her playing deltarune.