This is the best advice out there, since watching this I did a test at 90 (as others tell you!) and at 83 mid between 80 and 85.... OMG night and day the 83 is so much better and so much less clipping (actually None I could see in Premier Pro! THANK YOU
I've watched a bazillion videos on SLOG3 exposure and THIS is the one that has helped me the most. Thank you!! All the videos say the lower limit Zebra should be set to 94+ to retain highlights. It's been so frustrating to get the footage home and realize I've overexposed my footage and if there is a sky involved, forget about recovering any detail in it. Now that I'm using 85+ (or 50 +/- 2 for skin tones) and shooting at native ISO only, I'm nailing exposure every time. What was so frustrating is that I was using the same technique with my FX3 and getting great results. After your explanation of the difference between the two, it makes perfect sense. New sub here - and thank you again!!
I use false colors on my atomos shinobi and I try to stay out the yellow zone. If anything in the yellow, it’s pretty much clipped. Whenever I’m using zebras on my a74 I set it to 78+1 that’s when I’m shooting at iso 3200 though. It’s good to know that the lower the iso the more information you’ll have in your shadows and the higher the iso the more info you’ll have in your highlights. You’re really just moving the dynamic range up down when you’re moving the iso.
I've been using the Sony A7iv since December and I haven't seen any of these issues. I'm still exposing over and my highlights aren't clipping in S-Log 3, zebras set to 95% and had no issues. I think you may have misread your graphs as has been mentioned by some other creatives here unfortunately!
I use Sony a7iv and the Leeming Lut for Sony a7siii at zebra 94+ custom setting 2 and had this same clipping problem with highlights. I tried your advice to lower zebras to 70, and I also used the Sony Slog 3 to Rec 709 camera lut in Final Cut instead of the Leeming lut. I still use zebras to reduce highlights on faces and bright whites. I got much better highlight control with less clipping. Thanks.
This is an amazing video. Have you tested higher iso values above 3200 to find an 'acceptable' next range? For example 6400 may be better/cleaner than 5000?
Were you using the 10bit or 8bit for the Slog3? Also in Davinci Resolve there is a waveform feature called show extents. This will show some of the datas that are clipping that the regular waveform usually doesnt show to the user. If you turn it on in davinci resolve it might show that some of the highlight details have clipped already even if the waveform seems to not clip yet.
Wow.. extremely useful info.... kudos to you... this video deserves more notice... had my zebras set for 90.... dropping it down to 85 right away... cheers...
Thank you so much for your kind words and support on the video! I’m glad that you found the video helpful! We hope that our audiences will help sharing the video so more people can get to know more about the Sony A7IV!
you're going to loose dynamic range. I think Henry has gotten IRE and zebra percentage mixed up. Slog3 clips at 95% which is 85 IRE. Different IRE levels depending on subject matter. I use 95% usually best for overall dynamic scenes with no human subject. Always able to pull back sky details if i set zebras @94% just before zebras clip. IRE levels for best for Skin tones range between 45-75.
Thank you so much for this. I’ve switched from shooting canon for 20 years(hybrid shooter). I was following the shoot native +1.7 and the footage was garbage to grade. I watched another video that said shoot +.7. It’s been all good from there. 👏🏼🙌🏼
@@FUTUREINFINITYWORLD Nope. The way to go was switching back to Canon. The colors in mixed lighting(where I shoot 40% of my jobs) is absolutely garbage. If you shoot sony you need to get a master in color grading. That system added so much backend work. Pulled the trigger on the Canon R5C and C70. Color is restored.
Very informative and interesting! And if s-cinetone is used on a7IV, at which value you have to put your zebras to protect the highlights, given the case you are able to film everything with the two base ISO 125 and 500? Thanks!
Great video, I understood it even skimming through it cause I didn't have time haha. In the future for these long videos I recommend putting the chapter markers so people can choose the info they want to watch :) Usually don't have time to watch such long videos and just want the summary :D
Really this is an extremely valuable and informative video regarding sony a7 IV... Your video will definitely save my upcoming projects as I own it one. One question I have from you that should I maintain same IRE value (max 80/85 IRE for slog 3 at native iso) when I use 1080p slog 3 at base native iso. To maintain that should I just select the zebra value to 80 or 85 or different for 1080p???
Thank you so much for your kind words and support on the video! So far the highlights are clipping at similar level around 85IRE for both 1080P and 4K recording on the Sony A7IV in SLOG3 at the native ISO levels. Hope it helps!
amazing video, I'm getting one soon!! how does the a74 filming highest quality on overheating? i've seen a lot of people says overheating is a problem but some people tell its okay, unless if you shoot high temp outdoor
the color grading on your videos are nice! hopefully you can do a color grading tutorial soon? would appreciate that and find a ton of value from that! thanks man keep spreading the knowledge
Respectfully, I think you read your scopes wrong. The scale on your NLE’s waveform is set at SDR luminance level, which is presumably set at 85 being the highest brightness level. That scope is a representation of how your display is displaying the image, not how your image was recorded in the first place. That’s why you think different NLE clips slog3 at different levels. They should always behave the same way. It’s just scale settings for your waveform can be different for each NLE. Another giveaway is the fact that your waveform looks way too stretched for slog3, which should be a lot more flatter. So LSS, there’s nothing wrong with a7iv’s slog3 compared to a7siii.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience and knowledge! We left both our camera and NLEs at its default settings and the highlights are always clipping at around 85 to 89 IRE, which matches with the result of the dynamic range test from CineD. We will do more testing to see if we can get a different result. By the way, the reason why the waveform was stretched is because of the recorded phone screen at the bottom left corner and also the environment had very dark shadows and very bright highlights. In normal scenes the SLOG3 waveform is usually more flat.
@@henrymediagroup basically, when we say “set your zebra at 95”, we actually mean 95%, not 95 IRE. Those are two completely different units. Slog3 always clips at 95%, and that point translates to 85 or so IRE. You should always set your zebra at 95% for a correct reference point of clipping information, then when grading, you can put your clipping point at 100 IRE or even 1000IRE for HDR work. By setting you zebra at 85% you’re basically wasting your dynamic range.
@@rickyissak565 Wow I did not know this, now im more confused lol. Please help The zebra settings on my a7siii have several options: You can select from 70-100 Plus and then at the bottom you have Custom Zebra settings. When I check the info for the 70-100 it says "Stripes appear in the area with a brightness of ____ IRE or higher". On the other hand the custom zebra settings doesn't mention IRE. Are you saying the Custom Zebra settings aren't representing IRE? I ask because literally every youtube vid I've seen metions IRE even when talking about the Custom Zebra options. Considering you made the distinction between percent and IRE I guess my main question is, what unit is being represented in the Sony zebra menu? Is it IRE or is it Percent?
@@sstteevveenn77 it must be percentage. Google slog3 data sheet, in which the second to last table gives you key values in slog3 in percentage, which corresponds with how much you want to set your zebra.
The question is why did Sony choose to do that? Many times I thought about selling my a7IV and finally this video explained that. My god, I have a Nikon z50 and it crushed the Sony a7IV in low light! I kept comparing their footage for weeks and was always wondering why is this happening... The highlights are easily crushed every time I shoot anything, then I discovered the z50 a DX body, has a way more pleasing image in highlights and shadows smh!!!
This is strange :) by specs the SLOG3 must clip whites at 94+ with the incamera zebra. This is Sony spec for the SLOG3 if you expose with the ETTR method. I do not have any experience with the A7IV so far but when I tested the A1 it was exactly like my A7III and A7rIII. PS is it possible that this is a bug and the gamma assist makes the zebra meter wrong?
I did test my A7IV today and clipping starts at 94 zebras in camera (checked when clipping start using monitor+ app) . I'm on the latest 1.11 firmware. Maybe they changed something in the recent updates?
I did test my A7IV today and I have totally different results. I'm clipping on 94 zebras in camera, not 86. I'm on the latest 1.11 firmware. I did use the monitor+ app to see when the clipping is happening. Can you please check this again with the latest firmware?
That's curious, I definitely have a clipping at 87, it's clear on histogram, on monitor+ and on Final Cut 🤔 I'm super confused now, because few comments above you also says it... Would it be 2 different series of A7IV ?...
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Cool! But I didn't understand how to shoot in slog3. In bright sun? when I take a picture of my face. Exposure 1.7, zeba 75?
This is the best advice out there, since watching this I did a test at 90 (as others tell you!) and at 83 mid between 80 and 85.... OMG night and day the 83 is so much better and so much less clipping (actually None I could see in Premier Pro! THANK YOU
I'm happy that you found the video helpful! Thank you so much for supporting the video!
I've watched a bazillion videos on SLOG3 exposure and THIS is the one that has helped me the most. Thank you!! All the videos say the lower limit Zebra should be set to 94+ to retain highlights. It's been so frustrating to get the footage home and realize I've overexposed my footage and if there is a sky involved, forget about recovering any detail in it. Now that I'm using 85+ (or 50 +/- 2 for skin tones) and shooting at native ISO only, I'm nailing exposure every time. What was so frustrating is that I was using the same technique with my FX3 and getting great results. After your explanation of the difference between the two, it makes perfect sense. New sub here - and thank you again!!
You are very welcome! I'm happy that the video helped!
I use false colors on my atomos shinobi and I try to stay out the yellow zone. If anything in the yellow, it’s pretty much clipped. Whenever I’m using zebras on my a74 I set it to 78+1 that’s when I’m shooting at iso 3200 though. It’s good to know that the lower the iso the more information you’ll have in your shadows and the higher the iso the more info you’ll have in your highlights. You’re really just moving the dynamic range up down when you’re moving the iso.
I've been using the Sony A7iv since December and I haven't seen any of these issues. I'm still exposing over and my highlights aren't clipping in S-Log 3, zebras set to 95% and had no issues. I think you may have misread your graphs as has been mentioned by some other creatives here unfortunately!
I use Sony a7iv and the Leeming Lut for Sony a7siii at zebra 94+ custom setting 2 and had this same clipping problem with highlights. I tried your advice to lower zebras to 70, and I also used the Sony Slog 3 to Rec 709 camera lut in Final Cut instead of the Leeming lut. I still use zebras to reduce highlights on faces and bright whites. I got much better highlight control with less clipping. Thanks.
Thank you so much! I was using zebras in 94 as others recommended and not having good results. Thank you so much!
I tested yesterday zebras at 94 and I got details from the highlights in the sky after bringing highlights down.
Man your colour grade is incredible in the beginning shots, could you let me know how you graded this please, luts, etc… very filmic 👍🏽
This is an amazing video. Have you tested higher iso values above 3200 to find an 'acceptable' next range? For example 6400 may be better/cleaner than 5000?
Thank you so much for your kind words and suggestion! We will try to make another video about higher ISO level on the Sony A7IV.
This would be a dope video if someone does it
Were you using the 10bit or 8bit for the Slog3? Also in Davinci Resolve there is a waveform feature called show extents. This will show some of the datas that are clipping that the regular waveform usually doesnt show to the user. If you turn it on in davinci resolve it might show that some of the highlight details have clipped already even if the waveform seems to not clip yet.
I thought the native ISO was 640. Or is that for slog3 only?
Wow.. extremely useful info.... kudos to you... this video deserves more notice... had my zebras set for 90.... dropping it down to 85 right away...
cheers...
Thank you so much for your kind words and support on the video! I’m glad that you found the video helpful! We hope that our audiences will help sharing the video so more people can get to know more about the Sony A7IV!
you're going to loose dynamic range. I think Henry has gotten IRE and zebra percentage mixed up. Slog3 clips at 95% which is 85 IRE. Different IRE levels depending on subject matter. I use 95% usually best for overall dynamic scenes with no human subject. Always able to pull back sky details if i set zebras @94% just before zebras clip. IRE levels for best for Skin tones range between 45-75.
@@Gloomwithaviewwhat is IRE?
Thank you so much for this. I’ve switched from shooting canon for 20 years(hybrid shooter). I was following the shoot native +1.7 and the footage was garbage to grade. I watched another video that said shoot +.7. It’s been all good from there. 👏🏼🙌🏼
You are very welcome! I’m happy that the video helped! Good luck filming!
Yea this is the way to go +7
@@FUTUREINFINITYWORLD Nope. The way to go was switching back to Canon. The colors in mixed lighting(where I shoot 40% of my jobs) is absolutely garbage. If you shoot sony you need to get a master in color grading. That system added so much backend work. Pulled the trigger on the Canon R5C and C70. Color is restored.
Very informative and interesting! And if s-cinetone is used on a7IV, at which value you have to put your zebras to protect the highlights, given the case you are able to film everything with the two base ISO 125 and 500? Thanks!
In my testing I see that the clipping is happenning around 109 IRE, so i would say 105 and 65 for the skin ;)
Great video, I understood it even skimming through it cause I didn't have time haha. In the future for these long videos I recommend putting the chapter markers so people can choose the info they want to watch :)
Usually don't have time to watch such long videos and just want the summary :D
Thank you so much for your kind words and suggestions! We really appreciate it!
Really this is an extremely valuable and informative video regarding sony a7 IV... Your video will definitely save my upcoming projects as I own it one. One question I have from you that should I maintain same IRE value (max 80/85 IRE for slog 3 at native iso) when I use 1080p slog 3 at base native iso. To maintain that should I just select the zebra value to 80 or 85 or different for 1080p???
Thank you so much for your kind words and support on the video! So far the highlights are clipping at similar level around 85IRE for both 1080P and 4K recording on the Sony A7IV in SLOG3 at the native ISO levels. Hope it helps!
Thank you very much sir...
amazing video, I'm getting one soon!! how does the a74 filming highest quality on overheating? i've seen a lot of people says overheating is a problem but some people tell its okay, unless if you shoot high temp outdoor
the color grading on your videos are nice! hopefully you can do a color grading tutorial soon? would appreciate that and find a ton of value from that! thanks man keep spreading the knowledge
Thank you so much for your kind words and support! It means a lot to us! We will definitely try to do a color grading tutorial video, stay tuned!
Found that out the hard way too.
Respectfully, I think you read your scopes wrong. The scale on your NLE’s waveform is set at SDR luminance level, which is presumably set at 85 being the highest brightness level. That scope is a representation of how your display is displaying the image, not how your image was recorded in the first place. That’s why you think different NLE clips slog3 at different levels. They should always behave the same way. It’s just scale settings for your waveform can be different for each NLE. Another giveaway is the fact that your waveform looks way too stretched for slog3, which should be a lot more flatter. So LSS, there’s nothing wrong with a7iv’s slog3 compared to a7siii.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience and knowledge! We left both our camera and NLEs at its default settings and the highlights are always clipping at around 85 to 89 IRE, which matches with the result of the dynamic range test from CineD. We will do more testing to see if we can get a different result. By the way, the reason why the waveform was stretched is because of the recorded phone screen at the bottom left corner and also the environment had very dark shadows and very bright highlights. In normal scenes the SLOG3 waveform is usually more flat.
@@henrymediagroup basically, when we say “set your zebra at 95”, we actually mean 95%, not 95 IRE. Those are two completely different units. Slog3 always clips at 95%, and that point translates to 85 or so IRE. You should always set your zebra at 95% for a correct reference point of clipping information, then when grading, you can put your clipping point at 100 IRE or even 1000IRE for HDR work. By setting you zebra at 85% you’re basically wasting your dynamic range.
@@rickyissak565 Wow I did not know this, now im more confused lol. Please help
The zebra settings on my a7siii have several options: You can select from 70-100 Plus and then at the bottom you have Custom Zebra settings. When I check the info for the 70-100 it says "Stripes appear in the area with a brightness of ____ IRE or higher". On the other hand the custom zebra settings doesn't mention IRE. Are you saying the Custom Zebra settings aren't representing IRE?
I ask because literally every youtube vid I've seen metions IRE even when talking about the Custom Zebra options. Considering you made the distinction between percent and IRE I guess my main question is, what unit is being represented in the Sony zebra menu? Is it IRE or is it Percent?
@@sstteevveenn77 it must be percentage. Google slog3 data sheet, in which the second to last table gives you key values in slog3 in percentage, which corresponds with how much you want to set your zebra.
Thank you for taking time to write this comment,
I believe u have an auto knee problem... Set your knee to Manual, Point to 105% and Slope to +5 and try this test again...😉
Doesn't seem to change for me... It clips exactly at 87+ and that represent 87 IRE in FCP
The question is why did Sony choose to do that? Many times I thought about selling my a7IV and finally this video explained that. My god, I have a Nikon z50 and it crushed the Sony a7IV in low light! I kept comparing their footage for weeks and was always wondering why is this happening... The highlights are easily crushed every time I shoot anything, then I discovered the z50 a DX body, has a way more pleasing image in highlights and shadows smh!!!
This is strange :) by specs the SLOG3 must clip whites at 94+ with the incamera zebra. This is Sony spec for the SLOG3 if you expose with the ETTR method. I do not have any experience with the A7IV so far but when I tested the A1 it was exactly like my A7III and A7rIII.
PS is it possible that this is a bug and the gamma assist makes the zebra meter wrong?
I did test my A7IV today and clipping starts at 94 zebras in camera (checked when clipping start using monitor+ app) . I'm on the latest 1.11 firmware. Maybe they changed something in the recent updates?
@@zolwikwkurwikUse false colors on a monitor. A74 starts clipping in the yellow zone.
I did test my A7IV today and I have totally different results. I'm clipping on 94 zebras in camera, not 86. I'm on the latest 1.11 firmware. I did use the monitor+ app to see when the clipping is happening. Can you please check this again with the latest firmware?
That's curious, I definitely have a clipping at 87, it's clear on histogram, on monitor+ and on Final Cut 🤔
I'm super confused now, because few comments above you also says it...
Would it be 2 different series of A7IV ?...
Thank guy!
You are welcome!