As one of the guys that installed it, here's a bit of trivia about 346's: it's built of heavier material than the originals. The baffle plate was not specified for narrow gauge engines, only standard gauge, it was however decided to include it. The angle of the netting is what makes 346s ridgeway so effective, much more than the squat ugly ones that were built by Durango as it's built to the print, except for the fact it was assembled backwards😊
you forgot to mention the fun fact about the ridgeway is that it acts like a funnel in high winds and makes a pretty impressive backdraft when you're pointed into the wind. Nothing like firing when there are 50mph winds during polar and you open the door and you're greeted with a 3' tongue of flame coming out the door as you look down to check the fire...I only lost a little bit of eyebrow that night
So 346's arrangement leaves a Hansel-&-Gretel style breadcrumb trail of black soot alongside the Right of Way, so you can't lose the locomotive? That's excellent!
A video on how various spark arrestors work would be great. side note, the term spark arrestor brings to mind the backfire/exhaust flame hiders on late war German tanks with the wonderfully imposing name "Flammevernichter" which translates literally as "flame annhilator"
C&S had these on a handful of Standard gauge locomotives as well. They were a requirement for operating into Black Forest for certain locomotive classes.
I liked how you described the various layers of screening and nice to see this aspect up close. I also appreciate getting on your soapbox about correcting made up terminologies. Nice to hear that such erroneous terms are not only heard my line of the museum world. Thanks again Mark for another great video.
With the demise of steam engines, cinder pathways gradually disappeared. When I was a small boy in the early 1950s, the cinders from railyards were used as fill material for paths in parks, woodlands and other public places. It worked well as it prevented mud from developing, and cleaning cinders from your shoes usually just required wiping your feet on a door mat.
“GEVO is a foamer term. No one that works for the railroad calls an evo series locomotive a GEVO” Hyce, us foamers adopted the GEVO name from the engine that powers the Evolution Series: the GEVO-12!
Thank you for this excellent explanation on the Ridgeway Spark Arrester. I have seen these before but I wasn’t aware of the inner screen. Great information!
So I found out the restoration club that is on the same museum property as the model railroad club I’m with used to care for Uintah Combine 50. I was really excited to see it when I visited the museum a week ago
glad you explained that it's hooked up to some tube or something, I was looking at that open cone under it and thinking...so it just drops out and bounces into the bushes? Well, no. And I guess treated ties/sleepers/whatever the real name is for those things aren't prone to easy ignition
If you do a video on smokestacks and spark arrestors in general, make sure you hunt down a picture of W.H. Eccles Lumber Company #3 with her very wide stack. If you can't find one I'm sure one of us Sumpter Valley people can give you a good one. She still puts out a lot of sparks, though! A picture of an SVRy engine with the onion/cabbage/Rushton stack would also be a good one.
I am going to use a wood burning traction engine on My farm at some point so a in depth video on diamond stacks would really help with cracking the code on how these things work for me
Awesome! I love those old c+s moguls. I have a few G scale models from the original German LGB run of them, one has this exact spark arrestor. Beautiful engines, and models.
Neat! I was actually just wondering what these were for. I think I saw a train with an odd smoke stack, like the one in back to the future. Is that something similar? Also nice to see what's behind that hatch on the front of a train. So that's a smoke box eh? And what a lovely couple of cabooses you have there in the beginning. And those two trains look really cool. They remind me of the cartoons I used to watch as a kid, but the real deal is even cooler.
Thank you for answering this question, which I had for many years! (here in Brazil no one has ever been able to explain to me how this device worked). One more question. Wouldn't a balloon stack be more efficient? What is the difference between them, in theyr use?
Balloon stacks are more used for wood burning engines, where additional baffles are needed, and when the smokebox is quite small. The more modern engines with bigger smokeboxes didn't need them because they 1. had more room in the smokebox for screening + baffles, and 2. they burned different fuels that made less issues.
I have a 7.5" gauge Little Engines modern mogul that i'm freelancing into something that looks like a PNW logging railroad purchased an old mogul from the SP for logging service and i've been thinking about fabricating one of these spark arrestors for it. nice to see a video of one up close!
I'm looking forward to a video at nite showing the fireworks display. I liked your comments at the end about bogus terms. Ignore the haters who will comment, because I like your take. Very well done video, as usual.
I know your channel logo is based on a macaw, so I wanted to share a little bit of presidential trivia: Andrew Jackson had a grey parrot named Polly who he taught to swear and had to be removed from Jackson’s funeral because he was continuously swearing.
Could you explain why in past events last year 346 hasn’t had her spark arrester on? I remember for the triple steam up ,and the harvest haunt express train, and other runs last year she hasn’t had it on.
Sometimes low tech solutions are the best. If we would re-invent steam locomotives nowadays we probably use some high speed camera and and computer controlled air-hose which blasts the cinders into a holding compartment. Unnecessarily complicated but common wisdom says it new and modern must be better.
OK: Beartrap out, Ridgway in. Thanks for the episode on the Ridgway Spark Arrestor! Tho, I need to ask: if they were so effective, why did the D&S drop using them?
Questions about stacks. I love the old 4-4-0s. Are these devices the reasons why alot of old wood burning locomotives had those beautifully crafted very broad smoke stacks?. Did they incorporated it the stacks design and made it look good with the upside down bell look? or is the big stacks just simply for looks. Because most 4-4-0s had big crafted wood cabs, broad cattle plows, large ornate headlamp box. Or was it just a sheet metal trick to look cool?
The big stacks are fancy spark arrestors. Early engines had small smokeboxes, so they elected to put the screens inside the stack itself instead; hence the big stack.
Trains aren't the only thing to get weird foamer names. WWII tanks got all sorts of names that were mostly the product of model companies or armchair historians.
Is 346 a superheated engine? I'm assuming those two large cast pieces that look like onion rings laying down are the returns to cylinders after the SH?
Some people on Discord also call them tie burners, because it looks almost as if its burning the side of the ties, though not really. Haven't a clue where the Beartrap name came from.
I would have enjoyed the video even more if it had included a view of 346 with her "hat" on, even a still photo from her previous running. I was able to find one elsewhere, however, in a few minutes. UPDATE: The title image does show the Ridgeway spark arrester in place on locomotive 346.
Didn’t the Durango and Tolec use the bear trap arrestors to keep track of the train’s schedule? Since they would leave trails of soot in sync with the steam exhaust chugs. It also are kind of like the spedmoter of the 1890’s. Thank you I like the video.
So Ive noticed that 20 has been on the C&TS a few times before. How did she get out there? Is there a rail connection or was she just trucked over there? Also, have you guys done the same before with 491 and 346?
I wonder if you wouldn't be able to explain a part of another locomotive that I have wondered for the longest time. Take a look Steamtown's Canadian National Mikado 3254 and I wonder if you wouldn't be able to tell me what the cylindrical piece on top the front end of the smokebox is. It's in front of the stack and behind the number boards. I've wondered for the longest time what its called and if it serves a purpose or if its just for decoration. I've seen something like it on the front of many other steam engines and alwaus wondered.
90% sure it's a feed water heater based on your description; look up Elesco feed water heaters and see if it's what you're thinking of. More modern and efficient steam locomotives used the heat from the smokebox as a heat exchanger to heat up the water being put in the boiler for efficiency reasons, a lot of them have that tank up front and on top.
hay, Hyce i saw that you was in railroads online, but i need little help with something what if you saw a locomotive with 4-8-8-8-4 what will you say and what will the size whaeth andatracdifert and the pulling power.
Why would a diesel locomotive have a spark arrestor installed on it. The POVA railroad runs a few GP10's that have spark arrestors installed and I have never seem to figure out why.
I didn't know railroader's didn't call GEVO's, GEVO's? New video idea? Do foamer terms that don't mean anything to railroaders type thing? Also, very interesting info on the arrestor!
Most steam locomotives do not. Mainly because most locos in the us don’t run through deserty areas like the NG. Standard gauge locos still do spit out sparks, it’s just not as big of a concern in their neck of the woods
Hey Mark great video man. Hey I was wondering I can’t seem to get a discord account set up is there a way we could chat other than here or emails? Also I was wondering what dose the C&TS use for spark arresters and is there a reason why the Ridgeway one never caught on with other roads? Thanks ahead of time man your friend Jeff aka NW611J.
@@Hyce777 aww ok cool yeah I don’t know why Discird is being werido it says my email is registered but I’ve never done that so I don’t know where they’re getting this information from.
As one of the guys that installed it, here's a bit of trivia about 346's: it's built of heavier material than the originals. The baffle plate was not specified for narrow gauge engines, only standard gauge, it was however decided to include it. The angle of the netting is what makes 346s ridgeway so effective, much more than the squat ugly ones that were built by Durango as it's built to the print, except for the fact it was assembled backwards😊
We have since rectified the backwards issue :P
you forgot to mention the fun fact about the ridgeway is that it acts like a funnel in high winds and makes a pretty impressive backdraft when you're pointed into the wind. Nothing like firing when there are 50mph winds during polar and you open the door and you're greeted with a 3' tongue of flame coming out the door as you look down to check the fire...I only lost a little bit of eyebrow that night
I fortunately don't have that experience
this is why we need those little grabby hands you find at the store for kids just made out of metal so you dont burn your face off
So 346's arrangement leaves a Hansel-&-Gretel style breadcrumb trail of black soot alongside the Right of Way, so you can't lose the locomotive? That's excellent!
Just in case you can't follow it's tracks. :)
Yup! Lol
new MOW worker: how do we find 346? old MOW worker: just follow the black trail and you'll find it.
“Oops, I accidentally misplaced my train!”
@@husky_studios It's for when the train decides to take itself for a walk.
In one of my railroad books, there was a diagram of a British steam locomotive with the spark arrester inside the smoke box.
A video on how various spark arrestors work would be great.
side note, the term spark arrestor brings to mind the backfire/exhaust flame hiders on late war German tanks with the wonderfully imposing name "Flammevernichter" which translates literally as "flame annhilator"
“It’s not a funny hat”
Yes it is, Hyce. It is very definitely a funny hat. With a purpose. A funny hat purpose.
So, you mean that wasn't a hat to denote 346 as the Pope of Locomotives?
Nope, lol!
I have learned more about steam power from this channel than I think I've ever learned.
When I hear "Steam locomotive" and "Spark arrestor" in the same sentence, I think of cabbage stacks and diamond stacks.
Or the big "Balloon stack" that REALLY old engines had (General, Wim. Crooks, etc).
@@cowcatcherstudios5759 Yeah, that too.
C&S had these on a handful of Standard gauge locomotives as well. They were a requirement for operating into Black Forest for certain locomotive classes.
I liked how you described the various layers of screening and nice to see this aspect up close. I also appreciate getting on your soapbox about correcting made up terminologies. Nice to hear that such erroneous terms are not only heard my line of the museum world. Thanks again Mark for another great video.
With the demise of steam engines, cinder pathways gradually disappeared. When I was a small boy in the early 1950s, the cinders from railyards were used as fill material for paths in parks, woodlands and other public places. It worked well as it prevented mud from developing, and cleaning cinders from your shoes usually just required wiping your feet on a door mat.
“GEVO is a foamer term. No one that works for the railroad calls an evo series locomotive a GEVO”
Hyce, us foamers adopted the GEVO name from the engine that powers the Evolution Series: the GEVO-12!
I like the engines that use that bear trap and the air tanks on top of the boiler.
That would be most of the C&S power.
Thank you for this excellent explanation on the Ridgeway Spark Arrester. I have seen these before but I wasn’t aware of the inner screen. Great information!
Man, all of this stuff is such a treat, go ahead and film whatever you want!
So I found out the restoration club that is on the same museum property as the model railroad club I’m with used to care for Uintah Combine 50. I was really excited to see it when I visited the museum a week ago
It’s the locomotive hat of shame
Thanks for discussing this. I always knew the purpose of them but never thought they were actually so effective.
Amazing engineering from prior times... Pure genius from a much simpler and frankly much easier to understand and repair time.
glad you explained that it's hooked up to some tube or something, I was looking at that open cone under it and thinking...so it just drops out and bounces into the bushes? Well, no. And I guess treated ties/sleepers/whatever the real name is for those things aren't prone to easy ignition
If you do a video on smokestacks and spark arrestors in general, make sure you hunt down a picture of W.H. Eccles Lumber Company #3 with her very wide stack. If you can't find one I'm sure one of us Sumpter Valley people can give you a good one. She still puts out a lot of sparks, though! A picture of an SVRy engine with the onion/cabbage/Rushton stack would also be a good one.
Funny hat has been added to railroads online lets go
Always appreciate these nuts & bolts narratives well presented. Thanks for the upload.
I am going to use a wood burning traction engine on My farm at some point so a in depth video on diamond stacks would really help with cracking the code on how these things work for me
Cool! I like 346 and 20, the more I get to see of them the happier I get.
Awesome! I love those old c+s moguls. I have a few G scale models from the original German LGB run of them, one has this exact spark arrestor. Beautiful engines, and models.
Always wondered how the ridgeway spark arrester worked. Great video
First time tuning into your channel, very informative. Subscribed to watch more. Looks like all kinda goodies! Hello from the South Side of Chicago!
Neat! I was actually just wondering what these were for. I think I saw a train with an odd smoke stack, like the one in back to the future. Is that something similar?
Also nice to see what's behind that hatch on the front of a train. So that's a smoke box eh?
And what a lovely couple of cabooses you have there in the beginning. And those two trains look really cool. They remind me of the cartoons I used to watch as a kid, but the real deal is even cooler.
H. W. Ridgeway - That is a great old-timey historical name if I ever heard one!
So they're not trying to make a fashion statement then? 🤔
I'd really love to see it at night! Every time I learn something new about steam engines, it makes me feel like a kid again haha
I wanna here more about the master mechanics smokebox
Best channel I have seen for old steam fans😉👍
Thank you for answering this question, which I had for many years! (here in Brazil no one has ever been able to explain to me how this device worked).
One more question. Wouldn't a balloon stack be more efficient? What is the difference between them, in theyr use?
Balloon stacks are more used for wood burning engines, where additional baffles are needed, and when the smokebox is quite small. The more modern engines with bigger smokeboxes didn't need them because they 1. had more room in the smokebox for screening + baffles, and 2. they burned different fuels that made less issues.
I have a 7.5" gauge Little Engines modern mogul that i'm freelancing into something that looks like a PNW logging railroad purchased an old mogul from the SP for logging service and i've been thinking about fabricating one of these spark arrestors for it. nice to see a video of one up close!
So cool, never seen a close up of one before
I'm looking forward to a video at nite showing the fireworks display. I liked your comments at the end about bogus terms. Ignore the haters who will comment, because I like your take. Very well done video, as usual.
I know your channel logo is based on a macaw, so I wanted to share a little bit of presidential trivia:
Andrew Jackson had a grey parrot named Polly who he taught to swear and had to be removed from Jackson’s funeral because he was continuously swearing.
Could you explain why in past events last year 346 hasn’t had her spark arrester on? I remember for the triple steam up ,and the harvest haunt express train, and other runs last year she hasn’t had it on.
We like to show off more than just her "as leased to the C&S" appearance.
@@Hyce777 oh thanks for answering!
Took longer than a week 🤣 this is awesome
Sometimes low tech solutions are the best.
If we would re-invent steam locomotives nowadays we probably use some high speed camera and and computer controlled air-hose which blasts the cinders into a holding compartment. Unnecessarily complicated but common wisdom says it new and modern must be better.
on the point of stacks and spark arrestors 101. yes i would very much like to see that
I'm always up for sparks and fire^^
What a cool piece of engineering. Wonder how many versions they had to make to get it right?
I was hoping you'd make this video! :D
I wonder how a Ridgeway would handle Kylpor or Lempor exhaust
I'd be interested in learning about the big Congdon stacks
Can you do a video about #50? There's not a lot out there about it, and it's one of my favorite narrow gauge diesels.
Certainly! Definitely once it's running again. It's clutch is not working at the moment so it doesn't run.
Nice train and caboose
OK: Beartrap out, Ridgway in. Thanks for the episode on the Ridgway Spark Arrestor! Tho, I need to ask: if they were so effective, why did the D&S drop using them?
The D&S didn't make theirs to the original drawings so they didn't work right and they also were not historic to their equipment. Lose lose.
@@Hyce777 ouch.
Good video Hype
We did kind of the same thing on the locomotive my Dad had but we did it in the smoke box
Questions about stacks. I love the old 4-4-0s. Are these devices the reasons why alot of old wood burning locomotives had those beautifully crafted very broad smoke stacks?. Did they incorporated it the stacks design and made it look good with the upside down bell look? or is the big stacks just simply for looks. Because most 4-4-0s had big crafted wood cabs, broad cattle plows, large ornate headlamp box. Or was it just a sheet metal trick to look cool?
The big stacks are fancy spark arrestors. Early engines had small smokeboxes, so they elected to put the screens inside the stack itself instead; hence the big stack.
Trains aren't the only thing to get weird foamer names. WWII tanks got all sorts of names that were mostly the product of model companies or armchair historians.
Like?
@@sambrown6426 Hetzer (Jagdpanzer 38(t)) and Jackson (M36) come to mind.
@@Idaho-Cowboy Thanks, I never knew those names weren't given to them during the war. The Jackson especially.
US did it right out of the box.
Hyce
do a story on Denver Leadville & Gunnison Steam Locomotive No. 191 and why we can't run her
A worthy story!
@@Hyce777 I get asked. 191 why we can't run her?
You have such awesome and informative videos good work and keep it up!
Is 346 a superheated engine? I'm assuming those two large cast pieces that look like onion rings laying down are the returns to cylinders after the SH?
Nope! She's a soaker.
What's a Ridgway? Oh, about one hundred pounds. lol lol lol lol!
Was always curious what this style of arrester was called, I always jokingly called it a "Janissaries cap"
playing with the world's largest Train Set is a lot more fun when you don't burn down the Neighbors!
Some people on Discord also call them tie burners, because it looks almost as if its burning the side of the ties, though not really. Haven't a clue where the Beartrap name came from.
I never heard bear trap before
I have a question, in the 60’s the D&RGW never had any spark arrestors on the narrow gauge. Did they have some sort of internal spark arrestors?
In the late 1930's the big K's got an Anderson front end, which is apparently going to be another video I need to shoot. Lol! Stay tuned.
346 hype is baby
So that’s what it’s called I know from running clear creek in train sim that the b4ds have a spark arrester but didn’t know what is was called
Now put it on a mason bogey
I would have enjoyed the video even more if it had included a view of 346 with her "hat" on, even a still photo from her previous running. I was able to find one elsewhere, however, in a few minutes. UPDATE: The title image does show the Ridgeway spark arrester in place on locomotive 346.
Didn’t the Durango and Tolec use the bear trap arrestors to keep track of the train’s schedule? Since they would leave trails of soot in sync with the steam exhaust chugs. It also are kind of like the spedmoter of the 1890’s. Thank you I like the video.
No
Very informative……thanks for sharing 👍
Are those dynamos on the side of 342
Air compressors.
That was neat. Tell us about the Congdon stacks.
The older stacks are not my specialty, I need to do some learning and/or have a guest on. :)
Silly you. That is the muffler. It makes the engine quieter, so as not to startle the cows and bears.
:P
Did you know Studo 346 logo base on D&S 346 at musume amaze
Hyce tubes not flues Boss yelled at me !
I'll make him yell at me too. Lol. I can never remember the difference.
@@Hyce777 I don't what is the difference is .
@@mattomon1045 I think one is the correct term for the superheater variety (large style) and the other is correct for the small ones. Shrug. Lol
So Ive noticed that 20 has been on the C&TS a few times before. How did she get out there? Is there a rail connection or was she just trucked over there? Also, have you guys done the same before with 491 and 346?
Trucked it, and no; just 20. The other two are not FRA compliant.
@@Hyce777 makes sense
Wait… so it *doesnt* make popcorn? Laaaaame.
Well, I guess if we tried really hard....
Nice video my guy
I wonder if you wouldn't be able to explain a part of another locomotive that I have wondered for the longest time. Take a look Steamtown's Canadian National Mikado 3254 and I wonder if you wouldn't be able to tell me what the cylindrical piece on top the front end of the smokebox is. It's in front of the stack and behind the number boards. I've wondered for the longest time what its called and if it serves a purpose or if its just for decoration. I've seen something like it on the front of many other steam engines and alwaus wondered.
90% sure it's a feed water heater based on your description; look up Elesco feed water heaters and see if it's what you're thinking of. More modern and efficient steam locomotives used the heat from the smokebox as a heat exchanger to heat up the water being put in the boiler for efficiency reasons, a lot of them have that tank up front and on top.
Hey my names Mark as well. Hope you’re doing well!
hay, Hyce i saw that you was in railroads online, but i need little help with something what if you saw a locomotive with 4-8-8-8-4 what will you say and what will the size whaeth andatracdifert and the pulling power.
What
@@Hyce777 give me your bet Ansar.
hyce why is the cabooses bogey set wheels red that just hurts my mind since they are usually rustic brown or black or grey
Caboose red is a thing my man
@@Hyce777 ok
What about the exhaust stack that looks like a diamond when looking at it from the side of the engine but it's round?
Old tech!
What does 491 have in the way of a spark arrestor is that not a problem for her
She's got an Anderson front end / cyclone. I smell another video happening, lol!
So it works on the swiss cheese model.
Was 20 ever equipped with a ridgeway?
No.
Why would a diesel locomotive have a spark arrestor installed on it. The POVA railroad runs a few GP10's that have spark arrestors installed and I have never seem to figure out why.
Old EMD's throw sparks. Particularly after sitting for a while.
@@Hyce777 Thank you for the info, really clears it up.
Hyce, is it possible to mount open headers on a steam locomotive
Or if you can
Mount open headers in a diesel locomotive
There's not really anything that's comparable lol
yes
Very interesting, thanks for sharing
ok how do railroads get they're rails made and is it metal being forged in a forge or produced in a industrial iron foundry
Look up how rail is made on TH-cam. It's pretty interesting. Made in a big factory.
@@Hyce777 thanks mate i saw though i mean home forged rails
Nice video. Have you every hear of the Zanetti train mystery??
I have not.
@@Hyce777 a train in Italy disappeared in a tunnel I will let you find out the rest (if you want)
I didn't know railroader's didn't call GEVO's, GEVO's? New video idea? Do foamer terms that don't mean anything to railroaders type thing?
Also, very interesting info on the arrestor!
Lol, that would be a fun video.
I guess the diamond smokestack is not the only kind of spark arrestor, correct?
Correct, and "diamond stack" is slang for a style, not one particular kind. :)
@@Hyce777 I see, and I wonder if it helps reduces 🔥⚠️from flying cinders, like the Ridgway spark arrestor does.
Omg soarkerester can’t be a real word! Never heard of it
Bro next time you should photoshop a tophat on a train stack
Edit: good idea ot nah?
What does 491 run to arrest her sparks?
Coming from Hyces responds to a different car comment 491 has a special front end that emits very few hot cinders
Ryan is correct, the cyclone / Anderson front end. We'll show it off soon enough.
I knew it was a different one, was just curious about it, would love to get an explanation on it some time
Do all steam locomotives have that or not all
I think only wood burning have and some narrow gauge has it. I haven’t seen it on standard or larger
They are usually used on locomotives that run in high risk areas of fire.
Most steam locomotives do not. Mainly because most locos in the us don’t run through deserty areas like the NG. Standard gauge locos still do spit out sparks, it’s just not as big of a concern in their neck of the woods
@@Johndoe-jd ohh ok , thx dude
@@Orangeshirt_Railfan ik, but is it used for all locomotives or some certain ones
I’ll have you know; I don’t like the spark arrestors of my youth being called ‘funny hats’! #D&S1994PhotoCharterIn2024! 😂🤣
Hey man it got you to click on the video, lmao
@@Hyce777 You're right about foam caring about GEVO's I called a new GE a Dash 9 and the foamer was trying to cancel me...
Why not use chicken wire for the netting?
I've seen chicken wire used on Chinese locomotives, just kinda wrapped around the top.
Doesn't hold up to the exhaust velocity.
Hey Mark great video man. Hey I was wondering I can’t seem to get a discord account set up is there a way we could chat other than here or emails? Also I was wondering what dose the C&TS use for spark arresters and is there a reason why the Ridgeway one never caught on with other roads? Thanks ahead of time man your friend Jeff aka NW611J.
Not sure what to tell ya on the discord thing.
C&TS uses something like what 20 has.
@@Hyce777 aww ok cool yeah I don’t know why Discird is being werido it says my email is registered but I’ve never done that so I don’t know where they’re getting this information from.