My area/team (which has nothing to do with flying a plane) looks after the operational office-backend processes of our building/organisation; e.g. accommodation, security, etc. One of these is the after hours on-call 'reaction' to any event out of normal office hours. This can be anything from a security alarm, to a water leak, or whatever it may be... The one thing I've learned in being the after hours "on-call" person is; You react to whatever information you have available at the time & as it develops. Anyone can sit back *_AFTER_* the event with all the information at their fingertips, but they're not in the situation in-the-moment. So, whatever decisions you/I make while on-call (unless they're patently wrong) are the right decisions _at that time_ !!!
Great video! Thank you very much for all the content you post! I think most of us Flight simmers have tried to recreate this amazing feat. It’s unimaginable the level of stress this outstanding pilots where faced with and the professionalism with which they handled it.
For me the most amazing B737 emergency landing was the TACA flight that landed on a levee after a double engine flame out in 1988. A severe thunder storm caused this. No casualties or damage to the aircraft that was later flown out after an engine change from a nearby highway.
Slight correction that makes the story more amazing: they took off from a highway that was long enough for a 737 because it used to be a runway (or was it a taxiway?)!!!
FLIGHT TACA 110 The highway they used is the perimeter road of the NASA Michoud facility in New Orleans. A portion of this road was built in a straightaway for use as a runway substitute for NASA programs. They had plenty of length, however test pilots were brought in to fly the 737 over to NO/Kenner. (Michoud is a secure facility.) The levee they landed on parallels and protects Michoud from the Intracoastal Waterway. Basic repairs and engine replacement were done at Michoud. Less critical work took place at the airport.
Fascinating, I also believe Sully & co did the right thing on the day, but it would just be very interesting to see when you try and make an emergency landing at La Guardia - I don't know why anybody would think you're boasting about being able to do it better than Sully!
IIRC NTSB simulations showed they could've made it if they immediately went, but when you add the short delay of them trying to restart the engines and checking the check list they wouldn't have, making the water landing the correct choice.
Wonder why APU is not the first action in the checklist? You can then carry out other actions whilst waiting for it to start. A350 has an APU autostart if the engines both fail
Yeah the key thing about returning to La Guardia is at what point you'd decide to swing it around and attempt it - might be worth trying it twice, once before and once after doing the full engine failure checklist. I believe they'd not have a chance in hell if after they completed the checklist.
Would flight rules allow an immediate 180 turn back to the runway in case of a dual engine failure? Considering they dont have time to communicate their intentions with ATC.
No way of turning back, I could not even complete the whole engine failure checklist all the way until hitting the hudson. Neither could the real crew.
@@MarkPentlerin GA definitrly yeah but maybe an airliner would have the climb performance to quickly make it to an altitude where that's possible? I think mentour pilot has an old video where they do just that in a simulator after dual engine failure
Perfect video and demonstration! So much looking forward to the next video when you do the turn back to airport, I really wonder what the results might be.
Totally awesome 👏 I’ve watched just about every movie, investigative tv, read reports and watched interviews with both pilots. A bit obsessive I know but thoroughly interesting. Sully made the right decisions. Thanks for adding to my obsessive behavior 😆. It was brilliant! Btw, congrats on ten-k 🎉
I've always got the feeling that he's such a humble guy who basically just felt like he was just doing his job that day. Yet of course he recognized the gravity of the situation; I believe he said the moment the engines started spooling down he knew that this was going to be a huge deal and that his life was never going to be the same. Which is what he told his wife that night. I can't imagine what that would feel like.
Great video as usual, I enjoyed you going through the thought process of dealing with this situation! Maybe you could also tackle some other accidents as well (i.e. TACA Flt. 110) as I'd find your take on them intriguing. Also, just a heads up: TH-cam says the game associated with the video is FSX instead of FS2020. Thanks for the excellent content!
Before I watch it, I'm guessing that there's now some checklist or memory item list that has been created that now allows for you, in such a situation, to safely land back at La Guardia. Something like that. No fuss, just land back at base. Now let's see how wrong I am. EDIT: Man, I was way off.
What I've always wondered about this scenario is how it plays out with a four-engine aircraft and only three are knocked out. Can a 747 get back to LGA on a single outboard engine with a full fuel load?
Why is there no checklist for this scenario ? All twin jet engine aircraft can suffer from bird strikes in both power plants at low altitude so it would seem obvious to write that specific checklist !
Because by the time you have found the correct page in the checklist, gone through the items and waited for a relight you may have already hit the ground. There is just too little time and not enough energy in the aircraft to waste time with a checklist. You’re going down no matter what. Even sully didn’t have time to go through the ditching checklist and didn’t press the ditching button
What’s the source of this information? We certainly learned otherwise in our type rating. And what would you do if residual pressure on one side is less than on the other? The FSEU will not work so there’s no asymmetry or skew protection and would you really want to rely on enough residual pressure being available to control them in such a case? Doesn’t sound right to me.
@@A330Driver tested it in the sim. As for skew etc. I’d rather have flaps out to slow impact than worry about an extremely unlikely chance of that. And the point is you’re not relying on it, you’re getting as much flap out as you can , when you can . If it doesn’t make it all the way at least you have some! Try it in the sim and let me know?
Even though the Airbus checklists aren't particularly short either, if you check the official accident report you'll find the original US Airways checklists included.
@@A330Driver the supplementary procedures in the Airbus QRH (320-340) are a disaster, but the engine relight checklist is a bit slicker than the 737. Wonder if the Max replacement will finally have EICAS procedures……
Very interesting. Thanks for showing progress in aviation, and use of PMDG 737. Worth mention is also you are alone in this demo, and in real life there are 2 pilots. Human factors playing a major role - who does what. When purchased - I did test the depth of study level with both engines shut down and in flight start at fl 20. (Similar test with CRJ700 you can see that model complexity is pasted on). PMDG does it right. I think there is table with envelope of airspeed vs altitude for windmill start. Sadly - PMDG weak spot is documentation, I could not test this. But with luck and checking RPM I succeed . Not a pilot - but I am probably the only one on the planet not impressed with this incident. You got 2 options. Try to land downtown NY, or ditch on water. The choice is obvious. Only skill I can see, is wings level at touch down. But with Airbus, I guess it quite easy..
It is easy to say you could have made the airport when you are not actually doing it. If they tried and failed they could have killed everyone on the plane, as well as people on the ground. In my mind the risk is not worth it.
My area/team (which has nothing to do with flying a plane) looks after the operational office-backend processes of our building/organisation; e.g. accommodation, security, etc. One of these is the after hours on-call 'reaction' to any event out of normal office hours. This can be anything from a security alarm, to a water leak, or whatever it may be... The one thing I've learned in being the after hours "on-call" person is; You react to whatever information you have available at the time & as it develops. Anyone can sit back *_AFTER_* the event with all the information at their fingertips, but they're not in the situation in-the-moment. So, whatever decisions you/I make while on-call (unless they're patently wrong) are the right decisions _at that time_ !!!
Great video! Thank you very much for all the content you post! I think most of us Flight simmers have tried to recreate this amazing feat. It’s unimaginable the level of stress this outstanding pilots where faced with and the professionalism with which they handled it.
For me the most amazing B737 emergency landing was the TACA flight that landed on a levee after a double engine flame out in 1988.
A severe thunder storm caused this.
No casualties or damage to the aircraft that was later flown out after an engine change from a nearby highway.
Slight correction that makes the story more amazing: they took off from a highway that was long enough for a 737 because it used to be a runway (or was it a taxiway?)!!!
FLIGHT TACA 110
The highway they used is the perimeter road of the NASA Michoud facility in New Orleans. A portion of this road was built in a straightaway for use as a runway substitute for NASA programs. They had plenty of length, however test pilots were brought in to fly the 737 over to NO/Kenner. (Michoud is a secure facility.) The levee they landed on parallels and protects Michoud from the Intracoastal Waterway. Basic repairs and engine replacement were done at Michoud. Less critical work took place at the airport.
Fascinating, I also believe Sully & co did the right thing on the day, but it would just be very interesting to see when you try and make an emergency landing at La Guardia - I don't know why anybody would think you're boasting about being able to do it better than Sully!
IIRC NTSB simulations showed they could've made it if they immediately went, but when you add the short delay of them trying to restart the engines and checking the check list they wouldn't have, making the water landing the correct choice.
Watch the movie "sully" it shows some of the simulations the NTSB did and it prove that the only option was the hudson
Wonder why APU is not the first action in the checklist? You can then carry out other actions whilst waiting for it to start. A350 has an APU autostart if the engines both fail
Thank you for all these videos. I cannot imagine were you find the time for real world flying!
hahaha, hope I'll never confuse my sim yoke with the real one!
I mostly record on off days and preupload them for the working days.
Random note: QRH was last updated on my birthday.
Yeah the key thing about returning to La Guardia is at what point you'd decide to swing it around and attempt it - might be worth trying it twice, once before and once after doing the full engine failure checklist. I believe they'd not have a chance in hell if after they completed the checklist.
Would flight rules allow an immediate 180 turn back to the runway in case of a dual engine failure? Considering they dont have time to communicate their intentions with ATC.
ATC doesn't matter in such an emergency. You do what you need to save lives.
Deal with the paper later, if anyone should ask.
No way of turning back, I could not even complete the whole engine failure checklist all the way until hitting the hudson. Neither could the real crew.
@@varus1985 well, they call it "the impossible turn" for a reason...
@@MarkPentlerin GA definitrly yeah but maybe an airliner would have the climb performance to quickly make it to an altitude where that's possible? I think mentour pilot has an old video where they do just that in a simulator after dual engine failure
Perfect video and demonstration! So much looking forward to the next video when you do the turn back to airport, I really wonder what the results might be.
Just noticed you reached 10,000 subscrobers. Congrats!
Totally awesome 👏 I’ve watched just about every movie, investigative tv, read reports and watched interviews with both pilots. A bit obsessive I know but thoroughly interesting. Sully made the right decisions. Thanks for adding to my obsessive behavior 😆. It was brilliant! Btw, congrats on ten-k 🎉
I've always got the feeling that he's such a humble guy who basically just felt like he was just doing his job that day. Yet of course he recognized the gravity of the situation; I believe he said the moment the engines started spooling down he knew that this was going to be a huge deal and that his life was never going to be the same. Which is what he told his wife that night. I can't imagine what that would feel like.
Great video as usual, I enjoyed you going through the thought process of dealing with this situation! Maybe you could also tackle some other accidents as well (i.e. TACA Flt. 110) as I'd find your take on them intriguing. Also, just a heads up: TH-cam says the game associated with the video is FSX instead of FS2020. Thanks for the excellent content!
Thinking about some good ones to tackle. Always taking in new ideas!
@@A330Driver another vote for the TACA levee incident!
Brilliant!! Thank you again.. and again.
Best
Barty
Before I watch it, I'm guessing that there's now some checklist or memory item list that has been created that now allows for you, in such a situation, to safely land back at La Guardia. Something like that. No fuss, just land back at base.
Now let's see how wrong I am.
EDIT: Man, I was way off.
What I've always wondered about this scenario is how it plays out with a four-engine aircraft and only three are knocked out. Can a 747 get back to LGA on a single outboard engine with a full fuel load?
Will greatly depend on the aircrafts weight of course, at light weight it might be able to do it. At high weight probably not.
If the checklist is shorter and streamlined, can you make it to Teterboro in your sim?
Could you make it back to the airport if you immediately react to the failure in the 737?
See todays video ;-)
Why is there no checklist for this scenario ?
All twin jet engine aircraft can suffer from bird strikes in both power plants at low altitude so it would seem obvious to write that specific checklist !
Because by the time you have found the correct page in the checklist, gone through the items and waited for a relight you may have already hit the ground. There is just too little time and not enough energy in the aircraft to waste time with a checklist. You’re going down no matter what. Even sully didn’t have time to go through the ditching checklist and didn’t press the ditching button
I came up with this plan the day after the real incident . a*fellow 737 driver
Residual hydraulic pressure from engine pumps will get your flaps out
What’s the source of this information? We certainly learned otherwise in our type rating.
And what would you do if residual pressure on one side is less than on the other? The FSEU will not work so there’s no asymmetry or skew protection and would you really want to rely on enough residual pressure being available to control them in such a case? Doesn’t sound right to me.
@@A330Driver tested it in the sim. As for skew etc. I’d rather have flaps out to slow impact than worry about an extremely unlikely chance of that. And the point is you’re not relying on it, you’re getting as much flap out as you can , when you can . If it doesn’t make it all the way at least you have some! Try it in the sim and let me know?
Cartwheeling will kill people. I'd take 20 knots over asymmetrical lift
It’s funny how much longer the 737 checklists are compared to the Airbus…..
Even though the Airbus checklists aren't particularly short either, if you check the official accident report you'll find the original US Airways checklists included.
@@A330Driver the supplementary procedures in the Airbus QRH (320-340) are a disaster, but the engine relight checklist is a bit slicker than the 737. Wonder if the Max replacement will finally have EICAS procedures……
@@megathumper777the replacement has to now because of Congress rule.
👍👍👏👏
Very interesting. Thanks for showing progress in aviation, and use of PMDG 737.
Worth mention is also you are alone in this demo, and in real life there are 2 pilots. Human factors playing a major role - who does what.
When purchased - I did test the depth of study level with both engines shut down and in flight start at fl 20. (Similar test with CRJ700 you can see that model complexity is pasted on). PMDG does it right. I think there is table with envelope of airspeed vs altitude for windmill start. Sadly - PMDG weak spot is documentation, I could not test this. But with luck and checking RPM I succeed .
Not a pilot - but I am probably the only one on the planet not impressed with this incident. You got 2 options. Try to land downtown NY, or ditch on water. The choice is obvious.
Only skill I can see, is wings level at touch down. But with Airbus, I guess it quite easy..
Shame the engines being torn off on ditching isn't modelled...
Seeing Microsofts physics model... I'm rather glad, I don't want to know how many bugs they'd introduce!
No offence but the plane was not wrecked as you put it.
The A320? Of course it was, it was damaged beyond repair - wrecked.
It is easy to say you could have made the airport when you are not actually doing it.
If they tried and failed they could have killed everyone on the plane, as well as people on the ground.
In my mind the risk is not worth it.