Hmm. Well, I am flying the Zibo mod 737 in XP12 (still in Beta at this time), and the Thrustmaster Boeing yoke. I am not experienced in calibrating yokes, but I certainly am familiar with the real airplane. For me, I am frustrated that rotation for takeoff requires MUCH more pulling than the actual airplane. Same on landings, more pull in the flare significantly than the real airplane. I was hoping you would have some different settings. I am really tempted to branch out and try MFS and the PMDG (but keep in mind, Zibo is free) and may do so. I do appreciate your comment regarding landing the real airplane. The 737 100 to 500, the "classics" were quite easy to land. That changed with the NGs. Especially the 900 (the "Clunkers") was difficult. To my retirement, I never consistently got greaser landings, and fortunately neither did the young FOs. It just wasn't that easy. Guys would, just like sports athletes, get "in a groove" for awhile and couldn't miss. Then, they would get in a slump, and couldn't get a good one. I was lucky to get in the groove for the last month of my 38 year career. My last landing, of course I drew a 900 Clunker (not the ER) but I got a fine final landing and many with my skills and better do not. The pressure is really on! I will continue to try to get the Thrustmaster better calibrated. No thousand dollar yokes for me!
The issue is not that Zibo Mod and because it is free, it is your setup and calibration of the yoke, trust me. On the Zibo project there are also real life captains supporting the development team, same to the pmdg team. I can say, the Zibo mod in the XP12 is very accurate in all senses, and some real life pilots even say that it is more accurate than the MSFS. I also noticed when I upgraded from XP11 to XP12, a change in flightdynamics. The upgrade is absolutely worth it if you are still on XP11. I sat down quite a time and played around with the sensitivity curves for both yokes, the reward was wirth it. One must still not forget that even with the TCA Boeing yoke, it is still very different to the real thing. I have the Honeycomb Alpha yoke and the TCA Boeing yoke, and they both do a very good job, the TCA yoke is more realistic in the forces one has to apply to the yoke when flying. Especially on the roll axis.
@@tonchecker I was a very real life 737 Captain and flew the line every day for decades. I still prefer the Zibo, and I confess I am not a great sim calibrator. These days, my only concern with Zibo are the lack of brakes and the flight director lag when the autopilot is off. In the real airplane, on approach simply referencing the FD bars would bring you right into the TD zone. In Zibo you have to watch the raw data triangle.
@paulwilson8367 the PMDG on linear sensitivity setting you will notice it doesn't take much force to rotate. It's good to know thats how it is in the actual aircraft.
That's funny because I have used your settings from other video that is over a one year old and you also had all flat settings on joystick you have used in the video. I'm staying with those settings for all my flights and it seems pretty accurate.
I had been wondering about this topic myself. Gotta say i am surprised to see real changes other then a deadzone. But it dose make sense that PMDG would try to have it preset as close as possible for someone who all ready has a yoke.
This was great, wish you could talk about the reactivity settings too? For me, reactivity seems a better option than messing with the control sensitvity. What i found is that as soon as the curve is not linear it becomes much harder to make those small fine corrections
Very useful video,as I'm getting mine on Sunday. Did you have to do anything in regards to changing and assigning keys within the Quadrant? Also this included the yoke?
hi great video! could you please advice us on your rudder setting and the device you use. i use a thrust master rudder pedal but seems awfully sensitive
Any suggestion for what kind of calibration or what is the curve that you are using for the Warthog joystick? 7:29 I also have a Warthog joystick and I have to admit I haven't found any good sensitivity setting yet! It's either too sensitive in the center area or too sensitive when I move the joystick over certain degree.
I would love to see your rudder pedals toe brakes sensitivity settings. I have the same pedals and cannot find a smooth braking sensitivity I’m happy with. I touch the brakes and the aircraft aggressively stops
Good point! But Thats not so important for me. The ailerons axis and elevator axis are the most important to have acurate. And most of the time you use the rudder for taxi the aircraft to. (sorry for bad inglish)
not a lot of help! A lot of vague generalizations - to accomodate all different controllers. I have the honeycomb Alpha (NON-XPC) yoke, and it is simply much too twitchy on the flare! I really hate it flying the PMDG 737. Was hoping you would give specific settings, no joy.
The TCA Boeing yoke has 21cm of travel in the pitch axis so if you are right about ~40cm in the real plane, setting extremity dead zone to 50 in that axis will do the trick just fine.
Did you ever confirm the ~40 cm of deflection in the real plane? I'm also trying to change the extremity deadzone to match the real plane's control deflections. Thanks.
that is what i am doing but i have hit a road block. i have Virpil alpha prime stick and the second my mains leave the ground i go to gentle rolling bank to the left. i have no figured out how to solve that yet. otherwise everything else thru fsuipc works.
@dannycnoble going left after take off? Probably something to do with aerodynamics with the plane u r flying. That happens with single prop crafts. Or u may have something to do with trimming
@@InnerGi i am using the fs9 default kingair. i upgrade from the Logitech x52. never had the going left problem on that. i will go and check the trim settings and see how that looks. thanks for the pointer.
Hi Emmanuel, I see you have the TPR pedals, do you use in default settings as well? PS many thanks for the "tiller and rudder" vs "rudder" setting in another video, what a difference. Thanks Alistair
Hi Emmanuel, Your tutorials are so excellent. I use the Brunner yoke and rudders. I understand the flight controls are hydraulically driven. I see pilots moving the yoke quite easily during approach. My question, is there a speed sensitivity device in the system to allow feedback to the pilot that allows flight control pressure to increase and decrease at various speeds. The Brunner software has the ability to due this. Thanks for all your insights....
Hi Rex, the elevator feel computer will dynamically adjust your control column forces depending on several factors including speed and trim state. The faster you are, the higher the control column forces, this becomes especially evident above 250KIAS. When you're out of trim your control column forces will also increase significantly.
@@A330Driver Quick follow up. The Brunner FFB controls use software called CLS2SIM. There are 2 types of force settings. 1. hydraulic- constant pressure that is adjustable. 2. non hydraulic- allows variable pressure according to speed. I've reset the 737 profile to respond as you have mentioned by the "feel computer", that is so cool. So, now as I speed up the forces on the controls increase. This is awesome, so now trimming the pressure away is very realistic. In GA aircraft elevator droop on the ground is available, which I assume does not occur in the 737. Doing some more research, I found that Brunner recommends adding 2 lines to the 737 ini file, for Brunner users: [SDK] EnableDataBroadcast=1 PMDG 737 is such an impressive aircraft, it really does hand fly like a dream. Now, I've just got to adjust max speed pressure and how quick trim response is. Which leads to one more question. When hand flying, can you feel turbulence on the controls, or is it more like just countering wing lift/nose pitch with no control fluctuations..... Cheers,
@@rfarley565656 You don't feel turbulence at all in the controls, you simply counter the airplanes movements. There is no aileron or yaw feel computer like the elevator has one, but the maximum rudder deflection is limited with increasing speed. That does however not affect pedal movement.
Hi Johan, I'm currently using two, but only because I'm too lazy to go to the market and buy some more. I would say at least 3, maybe 4, would be more appropriate. That assumes a trimmed aircraft that's being kept in trim and flown in the normal flight envelope. If you let it go out out of trim it quickly becomes much, much more.
Well, my Boeing yoke came with 3 installed, and I installed a 4th one. The way it currently feels to me, I would install another one or two if I could. But I probably need calibration as I have done hardly any.
I ask that question too, and am usually told, "none of them". In the BIG, company sims, I would tell first officers during our check rides to not overthink the landings. I would say, "it's only a sim".
Thanks for another useful video. Would you say, as someone who really can compare the two, that the thrustmaster Boeing yoke is to scale compared to the real thing?
I have a real BAe 146 yoke attached to two potentiometers. With default settings it is terribly oversensitive. I’ve had to set the maximum S curve in FSUIPC7 to iron out the skittish handling. Is the over sensitivity due to having a real yoke with a larger range of movement?
A larger range of travel in a controller of any kind is going to make it feel less sensitive, not more, and that is better for small inputs. The sim just has a problem with this.
Any suggestions for the rudders? The PMDG 737 seems to have a dead zone in the rudder axis that I can’t seem to remove by setting rudder dead zone to 0%. This is making it harder for me to de-crab the airplane precisely during the flare.
thank emi, i have honeycomb alpha and I still haven't configured it correctly, the elevator is quite rigid, sometimes I think it's time to increase the sensitivity, but there are times when I get desperate to be making so many adjustments
The problem is that the 737 jumps in msfs2020, but x-plane IS very realistic because imitates the moves like a real 737. Can you fix this problem or is because of the simulator?
@@A330Driver i mean that in msfs2020 you dont feel the real weight of the aircraft on the yoke, but in x-plane you feel the weight, as if it were the real 737, but in fs2020 it does not have the realism of the plane's movement, that is, the physicality of the plane. In msfs2020 when I move the yoke a little, the 737 starts to move a lot, but when i do that in x-plane, the 737 moves smooth and heavy like the real one. And my question is, can you make It like the zibo only the moves? Or is the problem of the simulator?
Had your ocn flight depart on my nose from Munich yesterday while coming in to stand.... thought:"ah he's betraying the Boeing again with the Fenix" XD
From time to time you have to keep trying something if you want to talk about it lateron, right? It would be unfair if I kept saying "the Fenix is worse at xyz", if I did not continiously keep flying it every now and then to make sure that I'm not talking any BS.
Also dass die das realistischer machen könnten aber nicht machen, weil es sonst zu anspruchsvoll wäre, finde ich ehrlich gesagt schon ein wenig frech.. Zumindest sollte es doch denen optional zur Verfügung stehen die es gerne haben, dass es eben nicht so einfach ist zu landen. Als Fan von "as real as it gets" wenn es um Simulation geht bin ich da echt enttäuscht🫤
Does the new yoke have what the vehicle wheel has force feedback, & one would have to question why so expensive then. because even 400.00 and under whole driving setups one can get. so I would say the lack of force feedback, from only using the visual receptor of the brain to extremity is an instinct reaction of physics thats missing, for why compensation to sensitivity is adjusted accordingly, while overpricing the product as pilot approved. toodles
Loving your content and videos lord above. Keep em coming.
Hmm. Well, I am flying the Zibo mod 737 in XP12 (still in Beta at this time), and the Thrustmaster Boeing yoke. I am not experienced in calibrating yokes, but I certainly am familiar with the real airplane. For me, I am frustrated that rotation for takeoff requires MUCH more pulling than the actual airplane. Same on landings, more pull in the flare significantly than the real airplane. I was hoping you would have some different settings.
I am really tempted to branch out and try MFS and the PMDG (but keep in mind, Zibo is free) and may do so.
I do appreciate your comment regarding landing the real airplane. The 737 100 to 500, the "classics" were quite easy to land. That changed with the NGs. Especially the 900 (the "Clunkers") was difficult. To my retirement, I never consistently got greaser landings, and fortunately neither did the young FOs. It just wasn't that easy. Guys would, just like sports athletes, get "in a groove" for awhile and couldn't miss. Then, they would get in a slump, and couldn't get a good one. I was lucky to get in the groove for the last month of my 38 year career. My last landing, of course I drew a 900 Clunker (not the ER) but I got a fine final landing and many with my skills and better do not. The pressure is really on!
I will continue to try to get the Thrustmaster better calibrated. No thousand dollar yokes for me!
The issue is not that Zibo Mod and because it is free, it is your setup and calibration of the yoke, trust me. On the Zibo project there are also real life captains supporting the development team, same to the pmdg team. I can say, the Zibo mod in the XP12 is very accurate in all senses, and some real life pilots even say that it is more accurate than the MSFS. I also noticed when I upgraded from XP11 to XP12, a change in flightdynamics. The upgrade is absolutely worth it if you are still on XP11. I sat down quite a time and played around with the sensitivity curves for both yokes, the reward was wirth it. One must still not forget that even with the TCA Boeing yoke, it is still very different to the real thing. I have the Honeycomb Alpha yoke and the TCA Boeing yoke, and they both do a very good job, the TCA yoke is more realistic in the forces one has to apply to the yoke when flying. Especially on the roll axis.
@@tonchecker I was a very real life 737 Captain and flew the line every day for decades. I still prefer the Zibo, and I confess I am not a great sim calibrator. These days, my only concern with Zibo are the lack of brakes and the flight director lag when the autopilot is off. In the real airplane, on approach simply referencing the FD bars would bring you right into the TD zone. In Zibo you have to watch the raw data triangle.
@paulwilson8367 the PMDG on linear sensitivity setting you will notice it doesn't take much force to rotate. It's good to know thats how it is in the actual aircraft.
That's funny because I have used your settings from other video that is over a one year old and you also had all flat settings on joystick you have used in the video. I'm staying with those settings for all my flights and it seems pretty accurate.
I would love to have Asobo add the realistic wind and turbulence as an optional setting, I would definitely have it on.
Yeah its a shame that they have real pilots giving input but they still have to dumb it down for the masses
I had been wondering about this topic myself. Gotta say i am surprised to see real changes other then a deadzone. But it dose make sense that PMDG would try to have it preset as close as possible for someone who all ready has a yoke.
What airline do you fly ?
Thx for sharing !
This was great, wish you could talk about the reactivity settings too? For me, reactivity seems a better option than messing with the control sensitvity. What i found is that as soon as the curve is not linear it becomes much harder to make those small fine corrections
Very useful video,as I'm getting mine on Sunday. Did you have to do anything in regards to changing and assigning keys within the Quadrant? Also this included the yoke?
hi great video! could you please advice us on your rudder setting and the device you use. i use a thrust master rudder pedal but seems awfully sensitive
Fire ♨now 🔥🔥🔥
Any suggestion for what kind of calibration or what is the curve that you are using for the Warthog joystick? 7:29
I also have a Warthog joystick and I have to admit I haven't found any good sensitivity setting yet! It's either too sensitive in the center area or too sensitive when I move the joystick over certain degree.
Hi James, it's set to neutral. You need small inputs but I find it to work quite well that way.
@@A330Driver Thanks! I will give neutral another try!
I would love to see your rudder pedals toe brakes sensitivity settings. I have the same pedals and cannot find a smooth braking sensitivity I’m happy with. I touch the brakes and the aircraft aggressively stops
Good point! But Thats not so important for me. The ailerons axis and elevator axis are the most important to have acurate. And most of the time you use the rudder for taxi the aircraft to. (sorry for bad inglish)
You don't really use the rudder much in the 737 except for engine out and crosswind landings. Pitch and roll are the big ones.
@@paulwilson8367 I’m not talking about in flight, my issue lies with over sensitivity on the ground while braking.
not a lot of help! A lot of vague generalizations - to accomodate all different controllers. I have the honeycomb Alpha (NON-XPC) yoke, and it is simply much too twitchy on the flare! I really hate it flying the PMDG 737. Was hoping you would give specific settings, no joy.
The TCA Boeing yoke has 21cm of travel in the pitch axis so if you are right about ~40cm in the real plane, setting extremity dead zone to 50 in that axis will do the trick just fine.
Did you ever confirm the ~40 cm of deflection in the real plane? I'm also trying to change the extremity deadzone to match the real plane's control deflections. Thanks.
I prefer configuring my joystick through fsuipc you get pure input straight and simple with perfect sensitivity.
that is what i am doing but i have hit a road block. i have Virpil alpha prime stick and the second my mains leave the ground i go to gentle rolling bank to the left. i have no figured out how to solve that yet. otherwise everything else thru fsuipc works.
@dannycnoble going left after take off? Probably something to do with aerodynamics with the plane u r flying. That happens with single prop crafts. Or u may have something to do with trimming
@@InnerGi i am using the fs9 default kingair. i upgrade from the Logitech x52. never had the going left problem on that. i will go and check the trim settings and see how that looks. thanks for the pointer.
Hi Emmanuel, I see you have the TPR pedals, do you use in default settings as well? PS many thanks for the "tiller and rudder" vs "rudder" setting in another video, what a difference. Thanks Alistair
Hi Alistair, I do indeed. All default sensitivities in my sim, including the pedals.
Hi Emmanuel, Your tutorials are so excellent. I use the Brunner yoke and rudders. I understand the flight controls are hydraulically driven. I see pilots moving the yoke quite easily during approach. My question, is there a speed sensitivity device in the system to allow feedback to the pilot that allows flight control pressure to increase and decrease at various speeds. The Brunner software has the ability to due this.
Thanks for all your insights....
Hi Rex,
the elevator feel computer will dynamically adjust your control column forces depending on several factors including speed and trim state.
The faster you are, the higher the control column forces, this becomes especially evident above 250KIAS.
When you're out of trim your control column forces will also increase significantly.
@@A330Driver You mention elevator feel computer, is it the same for roll and yaw as well? I'm off to reset the Brunner's.....
@@A330Driver Quick follow up. The Brunner FFB controls use software called CLS2SIM. There are 2 types of force settings. 1. hydraulic- constant pressure that is adjustable. 2. non hydraulic- allows variable pressure according to speed.
I've reset the 737 profile to respond as you have mentioned by the "feel computer", that is so cool. So, now as I speed up the forces on the controls increase. This is awesome, so now trimming the pressure away is very realistic. In GA aircraft elevator droop on the ground is available, which I assume does not occur in the 737.
Doing some more research, I found that Brunner recommends adding 2 lines to the 737 ini file, for Brunner users:
[SDK]
EnableDataBroadcast=1
PMDG 737 is such an impressive aircraft, it really does hand fly like a dream. Now, I've just got to adjust max speed pressure and how quick trim response is.
Which leads to one more question.
When hand flying, can you feel turbulence on the controls, or is it more like just countering wing lift/nose pitch with no control fluctuations.....
Cheers,
@@rfarley565656 You don't feel turbulence at all in the controls, you simply counter the airplanes movements.
There is no aileron or yaw feel computer like the elevator has one, but the maximum rudder deflection is limited with increasing speed. That does however not affect pedal movement.
Hello Emi, at first thx for your videos. Wich resistance (how many springs 2-4) you use with your tca boeing yoke and come near the real one.
Hi Johan,
I'm currently using two, but only because I'm too lazy to go to the market and buy some more. I would say at least 3, maybe 4, would be more appropriate.
That assumes a trimmed aircraft that's being kept in trim and flown in the normal flight envelope. If you let it go out out of trim it quickly becomes much, much more.
Well, my Boeing yoke came with 3 installed, and I installed a 4th one. The way it currently feels to me, I would install another one or two if I could. But I probably need calibration as I have done hardly any.
So what is the best sim for the real airplane feeling
I ask that question too, and am usually told, "none of them". In the BIG, company sims, I would tell first officers during our check rides to not overthink the landings. I would say, "it's only a sim".
Thanks for another useful video. Would you say, as someone who really can compare the two, that the thrustmaster Boeing yoke is to scale compared to the real thing?
Not at all, it's too small.
I have a real BAe 146 yoke attached to two potentiometers. With default settings it is terribly oversensitive. I’ve had to set the maximum S curve in FSUIPC7 to iron out the skittish handling. Is the over sensitivity due to having a real yoke with a larger range of movement?
A larger range of travel in a controller of any kind is going to make it feel less sensitive, not more, and that is better for small inputs. The sim just has a problem with this.
Any suggestions for the rudders? The PMDG 737 seems to have a dead zone in the rudder axis that I can’t seem to remove by setting rudder dead zone to 0%. This is making it harder for me to de-crab the airplane precisely during the flare.
I want to feel the environment
Darn, I was here because I have a Thrustmaster HOTAS, lol.
Just keep the settings as per the video then ;-)
@@A330Driver I got a TM Boeing yoke now so I came back, lol.
thank emi, i have honeycomb alpha and I still haven't configured it correctly, the elevator is quite rigid, sometimes I think it's time to increase the sensitivity, but there are times when I get desperate to be making so many adjustments
The problem is that the 737 jumps in msfs2020, but x-plane IS very realistic because imitates the moves like a real 737. Can you fix this problem or is because of the simulator?
Not sure what you mean, sorry. Can you go into some more detail?
@@A330Driver i mean that in msfs2020 you dont feel the real weight of the aircraft on the yoke, but in x-plane you feel the weight, as if it were the real 737, but in fs2020 it does not have the realism of the plane's movement, that is, the physicality of the plane. In msfs2020 when I move the yoke a little, the 737 starts to move a lot, but when i do that in x-plane, the 737 moves smooth and heavy like the real one.
And my question is, can you make It like the zibo only the moves? Or is the problem of the simulator?
Had your ocn flight depart on my nose from Munich yesterday while coming in to stand.... thought:"ah he's betraying the Boeing again with the Fenix" XD
From time to time you have to keep trying something if you want to talk about it lateron, right?
It would be unfair if I kept saying "the Fenix is worse at xyz", if I did not continiously keep flying it every now and then to make sure that I'm not talking any BS.
Also dass die das realistischer machen könnten aber nicht machen, weil es sonst zu anspruchsvoll wäre, finde ich ehrlich gesagt schon ein wenig frech.. Zumindest sollte es doch denen optional zur Verfügung stehen die es gerne haben, dass es eben nicht so einfach ist zu landen. Als Fan von "as real as it gets" wenn es um Simulation geht bin ich da echt enttäuscht🫤
Does the new yoke have what the vehicle wheel has force feedback, & one would have to question why so expensive then. because even 400.00 and under whole driving setups one can get. so I would say the lack of force feedback, from only using the visual receptor of the brain to extremity is an instinct reaction of physics thats missing, for why compensation to sensitivity is adjusted accordingly, while overpricing the product as pilot approved. toodles
so an 11 minute video and he changed nothing?
really bad
why