What If Magic Really Existed In The Middle Ages?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ย. 2024
- Would Medieval Europe look the same if magic was real in our past? Let's revisit history together.
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The Middle Ages is the middle period of the three traditional divisions of Western history: classical antiquity, the medieval period, and the modern period. The medieval period is itself subdivided into the Early, High, and Late Middle Ages.
The most commonly given starting point for the Middle Ages is 476, first used by Bruni. For Europe as a whole, 1500 is often considered to be the end of the Middle Ages, but there is no universally agreed upon end date.
Historians from Romance-speaking countries tend to divide the Middle Ages into two parts: an earlier "High" and later "Low" period. English-speaking historians, following their German counterparts, generally subdivide the Middle Ages into three intervals: "Early", "High", and "Late". In the 19th century, the entire Middle Ages were often referred to as the "Dark Ages", but with the adoption of these subdivisions, use of this term was restricted to the Early Middle Ages, at least among historians.
During the 11th century, developments in philosophy and theology led to increased intellectual activity. There was debate between the realists and the nominalists over the concept of "universals". Philosophical discourse was stimulated by the rediscovery of Aristotle and his emphasis on empiricism and rationalism.
Chivalry and the ethos of courtly love developed in royal and noble courts. This culture was expressed in the vernacular languages rather than Latin, and comprised poems, stories, legends, and popular songs spread by troubadours, or wandering minstrels.
Legal studies advanced during the 12th century. Both secular law and canon law, or ecclesiastical law, were studied in the High Middle Ages. Secular law, or Roman law, was advanced greatly by the discovery of the Corpus Juris Civilis in the 11th century, and by 1100 Roman law was being taught at Bologna. This led to the recording and standardisation of legal codes throughout Western Europe.
Among the results of the Greek and Islamic influence on this period in European history was the replacement of Roman numerals with the decimal positional number system and the invention of algebra, which allowed more advanced mathematics. Astronomy advanced following the translation of Ptolemy's Almagest from Greek into Latin in the late 12th century. Medicine was also studied, especially in southern Italy, where Islamic medicine influenced the school at Salerno.
In the 12th and 13th centuries, Europe produced economic growth and innovations in methods of production. Major technological advances included the invention of the windmill, the first mechanical clocks, the manufacture of distilled spirits, and the use of the astrolabe. Concave spectacles were invented around 1286 by an unknown Italian artisan.
In military affairs, the use of infantry with specialised roles increased. Along with the still-dominant heavy cavalry, armies often included mounted and infantry crossbowmen, as well as sappers and engineers.
#metatron #magic #middleages
I love how Shrek is just right there between Eragon and the Elder Scrolls
SHREK
Not really magic (and not really medieval I think), but I love how avatar the last air bender did it, their culture is really influenced by their bending.
Bending is totally magic aha, and yeah, not medieval since that refers just to European history. It's an amazing show for the world building it did (the trains being run with Earth bending, steam engines being developed by fire benders, water benders living at the poles so they can create huge walled cities using their bending, air benders living high above the clouds as a method of security.
Joao Pedro Costa I agree I enjoyed that aspect, however, I believe that that wouldn’t be super relivent for the situation described in the video. One, it’s unrealistic that forms of magic would be so neatly distributed across cultures and follow such cleanly defined philosophies. It’s poetic, sure, but unlikely to happen if magic just suddenly appeared 200 years ago. However, it kinda asks the question, would magic be more of a science, or an art? Avatar leans towards the latter, but there are some systems that lean towards the former (and some both). Another thing is if you cast individual spells, or control (bend) different elements. Might be neat if specific religious or philosophical sects had different domains (catholic, Lutheran, Aristotelian, platonic, etc)
@@midshipman8654 The bending in avatar are based in real martial arts, I think it is less of a magic, and more of a fighting stile that you need to born with the talent.
But I mention avatar more because the rules of the system super clear and simple, and it have a good, and believable cultures based in those bending. I think it is a good start to do something more "realistic" especially because it's have a really good set of rules, where you can have clear ideas of how things can go, or not. (and really, do not have clear rules is common, and it's really annoy me because you can just put whatever there and say it can exist, so you can simple put a extra strong magic to eliminate the evil in the end or something cheap to explain a plot point, etc)
Joao Pedro Costa ah, I see what you mean. I agree it does get annoying when a magic system does not have clear set rules, and someone just pulls a mcguffin out of thin air for the sake of plot convenience. Avatar does a good job at staying pretty straight forward and logical.
However I’d still classify it as a form of magic, since you are controlling things with supernatural abilities (I’d say calling on supernatural forces is the definition of magic). Also, I would say that most fantasy magic systems are based in real life practices, like avatar is based on real martial arts (although I think avatars system is especially novel). For example magic circles and grimoire definitely existed in Christian mysticism, alchemy, etc.
CharlesFreck no it doesn’t refer to just European history it refers to the point in history from the 5th till the 15th century through the entirety of the world
>Learn alchemy/transmutation.
>Make anime girls with cat ears.
>...
>Profit
eh em equivalent exchange
Ed...ward...
@@GregAtlas😢
Ian vanbrackle not every alchemic system is the same, some have different rules from FMA, such as the Atelier series where homunculi can be made from an object called the water of life or in Fate Einzbern homunculi are basically mass produced.
Clone beautiful young women with your magic. Make your own harem like divayth fyr in TES 3 Morrowind lmao
This sounds good until you have edgy teenagers that somehow has more magic power running around destroying armies.
i agree but depending on the magic it could be natural were you just have it or it could be trained and that would take years , unless its natural a teen simply could not do that ( btw your comment did make me laugh )
So do I get that you just finished watching *Wise Man's Grandchild* ? ;P :D
myanimelist.net/anime/36407/Kenja_no_Mago?q=Kenja%20no%20Mago
Although he pretty much "made" his own magic...
They would still be apprentices, without access to such information
Yes, though the armies would be filled with hundreds of trained magic practitioners. They'll either be filled with children of the same capacities, or adults with more honed capacity.
It's like a street punk fighting a trained soldier.
It is funny to imagine though. All the Naruto runners winning the war.
Smh just like Doctors it would take years to get decent at it (also depends on how the system works)
Magic would cause an industrial revolution the like of which we haven't even reached as a species.
Issues caused by supply transport/distribution and terrain boundaries would be extremely lessened.
I doubt it. Much like science, (and of course depending on what fiction we are talking about) good magic mechanic is bound and limited by resource, research, and economy. Mage cannot do magic without "mana" , magical items, and ingredients. Stronger "game-changing" magic won't be achievable without a generations of research which end up being the same as technology, just different approach.
That if we are limiting it to "realistic" magic that prioritize less change, higher fantasy magic would cause the world to either chaos, catastrophe, or even maybe as bizarre as apocalypse, considering the nature of human. Just imagine what a mere nuclear bomb can do to the world's ecosystem, imagine if pretty much every archmages can spam them while acrobating on the sky. Even if they are not that extreme, higher fantasy magic would cause a drastic change to civilization that we can't even perceive, i would presume not in positive way.
If i ever design a fantasy world, i would counteract the effectiveness of magic to maintain the realism and make the magic "variables" easy to control. We are talking about a wild card anyway.
That depends a lot on the abundance and types of magic available.
Yeah cause that's what humans would definitely do with powers lol
There is no doubt that magic would cause an industrial revolution if it is common to the limits of what is possible. I think some of the biggest industrial changers outside of elemental magic, would being transportation (not instant just aids) and magical automata like golems.
See for example: th-cam.com/video/zJt8yzR2aoY/w-d-xo.html.
Just saying, the faraday cage doesn't have to be a mesh. The only rule is that if it has holes, they must be smaller than the wavelength of the electric wave you want to keep out. Continuous metal would do just fine.
I'd currently be diving heavily into the school of necromancy while the rest of my family would probably be stuck with alchemy. There's a history of substance abuse in my family...
Lol
._.
Muricamage 😎👍 right to wield and posses magic shall not be infringed.
Right to bear firebombs
@@elgee1976 the right to cast Karsus's avatar
The archfathers didn't know we'd have lightning bolts when they wrote the Scroll!
Dude. What a Wild West that would create!
@@manguy01 None, likely, unless magic were quite evenly distributed. As they said, Samuel Colt made all men equal. It wouldn't happen there. You'd have something like South America with warlocks as land owners and muggle serfs.
10:19 Similar English phrases would be:
_"strength in adversity"_
_"constraints inspire creativity"_
_"necessity is the mother of invention"_
I think it could be very different. For example, it might be commonplace for armour to have adornments and "decoration", even for the lowliest soldiers, as certain sigils, glyphs, or wards might render the armour impervious to spells of certain kinds, or even repulse them like magnets. We might also have weapons with their own enchantments, like a sword that can actually cut through steel plate, or that can do that shockwave thing you see in games. Scarier still, the gun might evolve differently, perhaps to have homing bullets (see Hellsing Ultimate's Rip Van Winkle), and bullet wards or some kind of physical magic shield might be needed to protect against them. Imagine someone casting a detection spell to know where you are, then firing their arquebus, and the ball winding around walls, through doorways, and past obstacles to find you...! This could change society as we know it, with guns actually being the insanely OP things mass media makes them out to be. Then you get to homing trebuchet rocks and homing cannons...! Would such tech ever need to be invented if we have magics that can fling things at high speeds?
Then there's the other end of the spectrum: If we had magic that could cure diseases, like the Plague, Europe would be a much different place from that alone, having not lost over 1/2 its population. Distribution of wealth and food would be different if we never had to contend with failing harvests, blights, droughts, or other causes of famine; Ireland immediately springs to mind. Would modern medicine ever become a thing? Would it need to?
Then, there are cultural factors, like religion.Who gave us magic? Where does it come from? Is it all good, or all evil? Would we see new religions arise from its existence, or old ones fall? Witch trials would be very different in a world where people can use magic, especially if you have to be born with it...! How would people perceive a "miracle", as opposed to "wizardry", and would it, if it existed since the dawn of time, prevent a lot of religions from even arising?
Then there's technology. With electrical magic, no modern technology as we know it today would need to be invented, but we would quickly (assuming magic isn't a taboo or something) develop similar equivalent technologies to fill in for specific tasks magic alone cannot accomplish, depending on its limitations. After all, the only thing that kept electronic tech from us for thousands of years is our lack of knowledge or control of it, so if people can control it with their fingertips, electrical tech would come around much, much quicker than it did in reality. Perhaps even in the Middle Ages, we could see commonplace electrical technology, even if it's not the same stuff we see today.
And one final thing: What about DRAGONS? ...And other creatures that could evolve in such a way as to make use of the world's magical energies? Would life in that world resemble anything we can conceive of in ours?
i like your small essay
You wrote it better than I did. Kudos.
That is a thing i liked about Demon Souls, there are Spells and Miracles,two factions represented by Sage Freke and Saint Urbain,that hate each other . From a particular weapon we understand that both Spells and miracles comes from the Old One,the entity that started all the chaos, and we see that they are in fact the same thing. I like how the concept is presented there,rather than the other cases where Miracles are presented only as Holy elements and such,not having any real difference from common magic except name.
I think guns wouldn't exist. It is more believable for a gun-like wand to exist instead.
10:19 In England we have _"Necessity is the Mother of Invention"_
We've got that in Canada too.
America too, but I'm reasonably certain that's one of Plato's pearls of wisdom
@@anatypicallyhumanperson7200 in my part of america there's "el que tiene hambre le atiza a la olla"
It means "he who is hungry stirs the cooking pot". Its a funny version of that saying
Sid'istic Atheist Mother Necessity where would we be?
See also:
_"strength in adversity"_
and
_"constraints inspire creativity"_
Id imagine technological advancement would be behind for centuries to come as majic would solve immediate needs for human beings
I think it might actually facilitate it. People will always figure out ways to maximize its utility in industry and warfare, while normal people will also create counter-measures against it.
Not if there are arm races.
If they always have to fear that the enemy is going to become much more powerful, then they have to improve their own technology. And by "technology", I mean to include deep understanding of magic. They would lessen the dependence on invoking vague magic spirit, and make their own magic devices instead. They would also have mobile phone, computer, etc. just with different technology.
Amane Yuuki So basically this
nanoha.fandom.com/wiki/Device
CogentPhilosopher you should start again, it’s gotten more seasons and it’s manga is supplementary for the first two seasons while the next two are based on their mangas.
CogentPhilosopher so you missed A’s then.
Today we have mages. I believe Babylon 5 called them TechnoMages!
👍 good reference.
@@shawn6860 We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers...
EE…This begs the question: Just how powerful is the Magic? I can imagine a world where even the most powerful mage could only take out a squad of armored knights before he was exhausted. I can imagine a world where a powerful mage could wipe out an army-and many scenarios in between. A squad-problem mage would have an advantage in life, but it wouldn't necessarily make it easy for him to become a King. We might suppose that in addition to their battle prowess that squad-problem mages have some other advantages over the mundane-say noticeably increased longevity, resistance to injury or plague, increased rate of healing, greater memory and intelligence and sharper senses….Yeah, a mage isn't a good dude to mess with, but he would hardly have diplomatic immunity in the world...
Not to mention the ratio of magic users to non. If there are 1,000 standard humans for every 3 magicians, it's plausible they wouldn't be running society, particularly if the magic is limited like in your scenario. A lot of these games, the magic exists, but is not very widespread. We experience it more firsthand because either we have abilities or our story revolves around them. The vast populace is largely regular medieval folk. This is fun, haha. Thanks for the video, Metatron.
I think this is kinda how dragon age works reasonably realistically. You got mages ruling in tevinter until templars come around who are able to nullify magic altogether.
I suppose the same thing that happened in The Witcher universe would be most likely, mages would start to acquire more and more political clout until they step on too many toes, the current ones are dealt with and we enter the witch hunt era again, pretty much the same as current history except some of the witches would be real.
***SPOILERS FOR JUJUTSU KAISEN***
-I love how JJK explorea of both ends of the spectrum of power. You can have Special-Grade Sorcerers like Gojo who can fundamentaly bend physics to their will and will be the pinnacle of Sorcerer Society, while you have people like Toji and Maki. Whose bodies are so rid of Cursed Energey (practically magic in the JJK Universe), that they basically become god-tier beings in their own respect because the extreme lack of CE causes their physical bodies to change in ways Sorcerers can't understand. (Keep in mind regular Humans in JJK have tiny amounts of CE).
-Toji with a bit of prep time, cunning, Cursed Tools (equivalent of Enchanted Items in JJK) and a Gun (Yes modern Guns are in JJK, if you read the manga or anime, some Sorcerers even enhance guns with CE or CT in the case Mai Zenin). Was almost able to kill Gojo Satouro, the Golden Boy of Sorcerery.
-Kind of like the Templars from Dragon Age you described. I hope more fantasy series explore the concept of anti-magic more. That magic somehow works like Nature to balance things out. Because if your going to have people with OP Magic, then you have to have people who are completely born as a void to magic to keep a power balance.
The thing you have to remember is that for all a mage can throw fireballs and summon storms, they could still be easily killed by a barely trained militia man with a crossbow. (Or a gun - though this only applies assuming gunpowder was invented) a bow would also be practical though it would require actual training and practice. Lightning and fire could be dealt with by soldiers wearing asbestos coated rubber suits. (Probably not possible in a medieval society)
what an amazing upload, you put so much thought and work into your scripts and don't pepper your uploads with adds seriously mad respect THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HARD WORK
A faraday cage grounds the charge, from a 16 year navy electronics tech who worked with them. You mean magic is NOT real?
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
If navy, you mean US Navy, thank you for your service. ;) Of course, I mean no disrespect if your another national navy. I respect those around the world who chose to fight so that loved ones don't have to. ;)
The magical people would either be revered or shunned also normal people would probably still advance technology. This isn’t a descriptive theory because I don’t have the patience to write one right now.
this is the era of superheroes, people shunning magic users is very unlikely
@@123Juniiorr i think op is talking in the context of the middle ages
@@DylanJo123 maybe, but i still think the same, people would see how valuable magic is, the church inselft would probably be different, having magic as a pillar of his creation unless magic just pop up out of nowhere in the middle ages, the church would probably go reeeee evillll, but one thing is burning powerless inocent people..its another thing to try to burn actual powerful mages
@@123Juniiorr I can imagine a world where mages are both shunned and revered, praised and hunted - well, I can just open "Narrenturm", "Boży bojownicy" ("God's militia") or "Lex Perpetua" and read
The moment your mages become relatively common, I think it'd be an issue of what your magic school or style is based around. Healers would be praised for their value to every sector of society, fire mages would be considered dangerous and as such, people would like to get on their good side, alchemists would be seen as master craftsmen and to a lesser extent, miracle workers like healers, summoners, however, would get the short end of the stick just for being able to bring outlandish creatures or even demons into this world, unless they summon normal animals exclusively, even a vicious bear would be more acceptable than Thorne-La-Spyke, Lord of Impractical Armor, even if he were to be a great fellow.
10:19 In Spain we have something similar:
"El hambre es el alimento de la imaginación" which goes as "Hunger is the food of imagination"
To protect against lightning all they'd have to do is make sure there is a sort of chain or metallic strap to drag on the ground in order to make sure the electricity travels from the armor to the ground rather than through the feet.
As for the ruling class only being mages, I wouldn't be so certain about that. Rasputin, Jafar, and Merlin. Mages tend to get powerful positions (if they're so inclined) but becoming ruling class is either just out of their reach or it stifles their capabilities since the skills needed to use magic are different from the skills needed to govern. It might be more viable under a totalitarian style rule, which is why Rasputin and Jafar got so close.
Interesting video, keep up the good work!
Wizard: casts fireball at me
DM: "Roll Faith Check"
Me: "Natural 1"
DM: "The fireball comes hurdling towards you, but you didn't believe in it strong enough, so it did you no damage."
Well time to drink some vodka
I like how the Sword of Truth novels describe combat with magic-users. Essentially, the expectation of any battle was that one of 3 things would happen:
1. There are no mages in the battle.
2. The mages on each side fight to a stalemate and there may as well be no mages in the battle.
3. One side starts landing spells and each one that gets through the enemy's defensive spells takes out massive chunks of the army and sways the battle rapidly in their favour.
Dragon Age has super cool depiction of mages cause they're included in "politics" in the game , they abuse their power and there's an order dedicated on keeping them in track. The mages are brainwashed from a young age and are being controlled/forced into behaving and at the same time people fear them.
Of course, some Templars are no better than the mages either. Looking at you Meredith. Not all of them, of course. Most of them I think are just following orders. Hell, you can play a mage and still be able to romance former Templars: in particular, Alistair and Cullen.
Love this video!
I get the impression that magic appearing at the turn of the 13th century would cause the Pavise and other shields to be reintroduced to simplify the process of protecting against magical elements, or to make it affordable for common troops. In addition, the premise of military-industrial magic may also lead to the development of professional enchantment, which means that armor radically changes. Depending on the form and degree of function these enchantments had, a common tunic might be able to function as plate armor or defend against fire and lightning. If this is the case, then armor only exists for reasons of desirable appearance or affordability, assuming it is more affordable than the enchantments in question.
You could probably make complete alternate histories based on what kind of magic there was, how many people could use it and how powerful it was.
5:36-5:42 All I could think of is: "Magic must defeat Magic!!!"
One more thing!
I thought so for much longer than that. The armor would probably be infused with protective magic to protect from offensive magic.
@@andersengman3896 That too! Did Raf mention that, I can't remember?
@@Altarahhn He didn't.
I am not entirely sure about that. What is clear is that magic is bound to be a rare thing. Otherwise, if everyone can have it, it ceases to become an advantage, and becomes a normal thing against you know how to protect yourself. Nah, if magic is rare, then it becomes possible to know how to protect yourself against it, by studying it. Even if you can't use it yourself. I mean, hunters pretty much do that when they hunt predators. I could see antimage squads, specially trained to deal with those fuckers. They would understandably be highly paid mercenaries. I mean, there's only so much a mage can do: if it's raining arrows today, he will conjure a shield, but what if other guys start suffocating him with smokes from fires around his shield? Will he stop breathing? Or cease to conjure his shield to cast another spell? How many time and effort does it cost to cast any spell? The guy is obviously vulnerable during that process, etc.
There is much to say but to sum it up: Thank you for this video. A realistic view on how the applications of such a powerful ability and how it would affect society is something most overlook. I also enjoyed that you even mentioned that magic and mages in games have to be balanced but that isn't the case in real life. Great points and excellent video!
magic in reality would be very different from any games or movies version of magic
@@sirpaladinknight5491 how would it be different?
You're my hero, Metatron.
I'm glad to hear it!
@@metatronyt magecraft, magic, aliens and stuff exists in the supernatural fiction world of the nasuverse. Also why do you have so few subscribers? Your content is pretty cool.
Another aspect to consider about magic is if it's a genetic ability or if anyone can learn how to do it given enough time and study.
If it's an inherited trait then its proof of Devine Right. As you said the nobility and the higher levels of the clergy will all be magic users. Magic would be a tool of the Roman Catholic church as much ad it's a tool of the nobility of medieval Europe.
If being able to use magic is a learned skill and not genetic it changes things a little. Nobles will learn some magic but they also have to devote time to running things, however they would likely be patrons of someone that devoted their life to the magical arts. The Roman catholic church also had a lot of people that spent a lot of time studying. Nobles and kingdoms under the churches control or with strong ties to the church would use church sanctioned and trained magic users. In such places those that have learned magic from other sources might be mistrusted and even hunted by the church as a threat to their near monopoly on magic.
Agreed, but the power of the magic is also important. If it takes 12 years of study just a light a candle then almost no one would bother with it.
I am afraid I have to disagree. If magic is genetic the Roman Catholic Church is unlikely to survive. If the base of aristocratic power is land, one heir will do. In fact that is an advantage. Sending younger sons to serve in the church is possible. If, however, power comes from magic, first of all urban patricians and nobles become more important and, secondly, you need as many children as possible and they must breed. Noble monks or priests are no longer possible.
Furthermore, monogamy becomes untenable for the nobility. You must breed for mages. Hence the male mage with more wives will win.
i think it is important to note here that the outcome depends largely on a few factors regarding magic.
first off, is there a source of power? does using magic tire the mind? the body? both? is there a risk in using magic too much? are magically significant ingredients required? how much preparation is needed to perform a spell? perhaps preparing a spell is a lengthy process which makes it difficult or impossible to use in combat, instead forcing military wizards to use it to relay information, elaborate magical traps or to break sieges where they have more time to perform their rituals.
it is also important to note about other often magical processes, the presence of alchemy would instantly reshape the whole world economy, especially if there aren't any rules in place like in some settings where gold can not be transmutated or stuff like that.
This sounds like an fantasy novel i read, in a medieval world where mages are so rare anyone who can use magic are instantly promote to nobility.
I though emeralds already were more valuable than diamonds in medieval Europe. I was always told diamonds are trash rocks worth very little. It took a serious marketing campaign as well as a near monopoly on diamond trade to give them any value and jewelers still say they are over priced for the market they cater to.
Diamond are more valuable because it's harder to find ones with high clarity.
@@Sojju7 And even after the finding it is still harder.
The Great Kaiser-Conjurer's of Germany fighting against The Blessed Miracle Kings of France, fun af
After the Holy Pope-Mage of Italy excommunicated the Holy Roman Kaiser-Conjurer after not joining the Mage Crusade against the AlGhoulid Caliphate
@@jasonssavitt5297 that was beautiful sir
Nice one!
I think the price of spells would be very important factor. Considering laws of physics still apply, the energy required for spells to make an effect does have to come form somewhere. Whether magic power is rare or unlimited supply. That would surely affect how strong and frequent the spells could be.
-Are there some sort of magic power lines or local sources on that world, that the magic users can tap into, or channel and direct the energy from them using their will?
-Are they using magic rich ingredients such as herbs, beast parts or souls to power their spells? Or even from "bio-energy" of the spell caster himself.
-Or is spell casting just a way of manipulating present matter as the mage wishes, maybe at quantum level or similar?
dnd magic is like air, it is everywhere but can also be damaged if overused, that is why wizards in modern dnd settings are so rare, because wizards from the past almost destroyed all magic so the god of magic himself had to put limitations in power and numbers of people
@@123JuniiorrI know there is separate god for Wizards in DnD, but I thought it was Mystra, goddess of magic (known as Mystrl before her death), who is woman is the one who the put the ban after the wizard Karsus killed her.
After her rebirth through the Human wizard, Midnight (who is also a woman), she inacted "Mystra's Ban" which forbade mortals from accessing any spell higher than 9th Level (before the ban the highest was 13th Level).
Although their still alot workarounds to access 13th Level spells despite the ban, but if Mystra or the god of Wizards (forgot his name) found out, it was either a memory wipe or death.
One workaround which was super rare was just being born different. For example, the Red Dragon "Inferno" (has a different name in Draconic) was born so powerful that he could cast 13th Level spells despite the ban at will. Hells, in 3.5 Edition he had a higher CR than the avatar of Tiamat (the goddess of evil dragons) and 40 Sorcerery Points.
"You are new, yes? Have you mastered the Expert level destruction spells yet?"
The armies wouldn't need swords or bows or guns even, the Archmage would just give them all a bag of pommels
Yes, to strike the enemy rightly.
More like everyone would be operating magic powered automated catapults loaded with pommels. ...It's basically modern tank warfare.
Great video Metatron, this is definitely food for thought for any world builders out there. One thing I'd like to point out is that diamonds being the "most valuable gem" is a very recent development, spurred mostly be the advertising campaigns by DeBeers starting around ~1900. Before that diamonds were considered more semi-precious as they really are too common to be as valuable as they currently are.
I also can see a good alternate path magic could have on society, which is magic and magic use becoming the domain of religion, with religious orders seeking out and recruiting all spellcasters to train in their order. A good example of this is the Wheel of Time series where the Aies Sedai would actively seek out all women who could use magic (called channelers in this world) and take them to their main headquarters in Tar Valon to train them to become Aies Sedai. The Aies Sedai kind of fill both roles as government and religion, as they act as both spiritual leaders across the land and also as the main government in Tar Valon.
In this case I'd expect to see a number of secular governments eventually fall in favor of theocracies though, but not necessarily all of them. Religion can be a powerful motivator to do or not do something and if mages get indoctrinated on morality to believe it's morally right for them to obey secular authorities regardless of whether or not they can cast spells or not could prove a useful deterrent to mages taking over.
Metatron, you forgot the third possible battle element, ice!
I know, right? How could he also forget about ice magic?
Ice magic would be amazing, but there's a problem.
Assuming magic is divided into energy (fire, ice, lightning, and some other minor ones) and matter (water, wind, earth, etc), energy magic would be the preferred kind in most situations because it can kill a person regardless of the circumstance (fire only stops working if no oxygen is available, like underwater or on outer space, the latter of which doesn't concern us), while lightning can at least instantly incapacitate people wearing less than a full suit of armor.
Ice, however, works as a debilitating agent and can only reasonably kill a person if you go way below the freezing point of water, which could be possible, but may or may not require humongous amounts of magic juice, for lack of a better, universal term. Still, ice mages would be amazing at sieges, "the fire guys couldn't break the magical barrier, but we can just freeze the area around the barrier and just let them freeze to death or starve".
What I think doesn't get enough recognition is the magic based around matter, yes, it's harder to directly kill a person, but there's only a couple of things you can do with fire before it's just "make it bigger!". But telekinesis in general? Oh man, that'd be the most useful thing ever.
Freeze the enemy's water supply, devastate their crop fields, wall in enemy castles with even higher walls of ice......
It did exist and does today, it just depend on your outlook on life.
Speech in old in English is called spell, to make a poem spellcraft, the norse call it galdr (song) and seither and with this you can bring whole worlds into beong, make or break peoples reputations including kings.
you speak what you want into existence how the world should be then make it happen, casting a spell then working hard to bring it to fruition through harnessing the emotions.
Woden was the patron of magic along with freo.
We just seem to have forgot that magic requires hard work and sacrafice on our part.
An author that do good magic systems? Brandon Sanderson.
His systems work well at the beginning of the story. As plot progresses through the midpoint gods usually get involved and all the semblance of balance vanishes and everything turns into the clash of unstoppable OP entities.
@@tutzdesYT Yep but at least its on the final fights.
and remember, the metatron has spread his legs
...wait....its not tax season yet. never mind. carry on
It's almost harvesting season!
I like how you went into the socioeconomic implications of magic. I think Dalaran in Warcraft handled this quite well.
It really depends on how the magic system works in the end. To me as long as it has little to no chanting (or just saying a single phrase) in it, it's all good to me.
If you can't tell I have an unhealthy hatred for chanting and I only make a few exceptions like the anime Slayers with Lina Inverse.
yeah i think its pretty dumb but in lies on the idea of words have power , but if your sneaking and your yelling a spell to make you stealthy .... well
Chanting is alright if magic is based around religion, and you need to make some prayer to get your spell from whoever is in charge. If not, yelling the magical words and spending some of your magical juice, or having to spend a resource like oil for a fire spell, is more interesting.
@@alstroemeria thing is that way of thinking can get to some ridiculous concepts like having to say an entire paragraph or essay's worth of words just to cast a single spell. It's frustrating and anti-climatic (at least for me).
@@ulysses7157 Yeah, I get where you're coming from. Writing that can get pretty messy, I know because I tried. It fits for a really big spell you only see once or twice, but those are the exceptions. For regular use, it's better to just skip the chanting or allude to it if it's really necessary.
@@alstroemeria chanting, spelling out words just to make one spell. I think you would die before you have a chance. if someone has a gun and you got to chant or or spelling words. but the guy with a gun noticed you are about to use a spell and fires at you right before your spell activates.
this is just to point out other reasons why chanting and spelling words would be pointless for activating spells. I mean it's bad enough you have to charge up a spell just to make them effective.
Imagine the demand for reflect rings or other equipment/items that could do the same in such a world...
But what if only a few people were gifted in magic? If only 1 or 2 really powerful mage would be in Europe at any given time, it wouldn't be enough to overthrow the feudal rulers as even magic users have limits.
It may not be the same but basically it is like the anime " Knights and Magic ".
An interesting idea would be the concept of having to learn it. Magic is certainly a dangerous art to master and magically gifted infants accidentially blowing up buildings or turning their peers inside out during an argument might be just as common as modern day traffic accidents...
Metatron: Mages are weak in hand to hand combat
Gandalf: *actually kills one of the strongest beings in its time with only a sword*
The Balrog was ONE of the most powerful beings alive. Gandalf was THE most powerful being alive at the time.
@@victorantoniomonteiro2708 what about sauron
@@victorantoniomonteiro2708 or manwe
@@lassim3111 sauron is "dead". And manwë, ulmo, etc are not in the middle earth so they doesn't count
So if we assume that magic appeared in 13th century Italy that would turn the religious world on its head. The Catholic Church depending on where the magic was coming from would either have to adapt and change alot of theology, or be replaced by some Wizard Religion. We have to remember that in the medieval world religion played a decisive role in everything commoner, king, and intellectual alike had belief and we're driven by it. Any mage that was a product of that culture (if they were mentally stable) would just believe that they were gifted by God especially if some monk (or hermit) had developed magic abilities. After a while you would see a bunch of magic Savonarola's.
I think with the armor, even though I am not a fan of leather armor, you might see more use of it because it is an insulator against electricity and you could easily apply a fire resistant coat as you said, at least in the beginning.
Also maybe the mages could use their magic to enchant armour giving armour resistant to magic like in RPG games. That would definitely be in their interest because it would help protect their soldiers.
Technically magic is rooted in science since magic is form of energy exported out of the wielder.
If magic was in the medieval period it would either be destroyed by the church, or just embrace some areas of magic, call it holy magic, use it to make the church more powerful and cathedrals more fabulous, and call everything else e v i l
Ye, but it will have harsh times vs other civilizacions that did not fight the magic and instead embace it. History would be diferent.
magic would proble be destroyed because the Christians in real history killed off all pagans ( a type of natural magic ) there excuse was there in league with the devil when in reality they did that to gain power , the spell tomes are in the Vatican to day
We might also consider how magic manifests itself in individuals, like if it is random or genetic, which would influence how it relates to your idea of nobility being replaced by mages.
Also, how did the civilization first come into contact with magic? Did they discover it on their own by chance like most scientific discoveries, or did they learn about it through a conquering nation that had already discovered it? That might influence their view in their culture
Keep this in mind, a really powerful sorcerer, could just create magic so powerful that pretty much no one can beat him aside from another sorcerer, and even if they are weak in close combat, nothing stops a mage from creating a spell that greatly enhances their physical power.
in short i think, mages would be op af, in games they are balanced, but if it was a real life scenario, nothing would beat mages, and everyone would at least try to become one, see there is no reason to become a warrior if you can be a mage.
This is a nice one
i liked the video but i think you should be looking at things like pagan magic or voodoo or something slimier or magic from people like marlin or the sorceress from nordic mythology i think that would be more realistic than fantasy magic , however with the parameters you choose i think you did a good job
The smaller magic gets, the less impact it'd have on society. For all we know there could be people summoning demons, but since the effects are so minuscule compared to "whoosh, your house is now on fire", we can't really say for sure.
I would love to see more videos in the 'what if magic/undead existed' vein
Very nice video.
If I may, i think there are type of magics who would have far more impact than fireball or lighting. Just imagine: illusions, divination, mind spells,... the possibilities are astonishing. Healing would be of significant influence as well, since infections and disease actually killed more soldiers than fights.
In the story of the Black Compagny by Glenn cook, there are two sorcerers who are mostly into illusions and they obtain one heck of results with clever use of simple spells.
English mages in Mail coat the size of robes and mail coif likely. Staff or basic swords. Archery as well.
@CogentPhilosopher perhaps, but under some English kings the populace the people were required to practice it. and if we are talking a war mage. He would certainly be required to meet military standards.
This helped a lot with my story I'm writing, thanks for the help bro
I asked my spirits and they assure me that magic still works in our world ;)
On a different matter, don't you think that all the magical projectiles are just for storytelling? If you can create heat, conjure a tiny fireball inside someone's brain... no need for projectiles.
But really, if Magic is the Art of *directly* turning an intent into reality, why not just focus the enemy's death? Make their hearts stop, their arteries burst... I think it's just a clash of willpower and concentration - not fancy to look at, but direct and effective.
I also disagree that mages wouldn't have time to practise with swords and such. Many people get high degrees and still learn a martial art on their spare time. Magic probably wouldn't be harder than getting a PhD.
I agree in fact there are many people with degrees that are pretty fit and muscular. Not all smart people are lazy bums that are unfit.
You forgot ... The Church™️. In the 1200s they’d have gone totally apeshit and done everything they could to crush it and hunt down mages to burn at the stake. Hell, look at how they crushed pagans, and treated accused witches. Would the church fail? Maybe. But maybe not. Mages might be forced underground and hide their powers.
You can also use the magic system of "DSA/ The Dark Eye". Iron hinder the astral flow and make it difficult to cast spells. This is more low magic setting.
Metatron, I'm a big fan of your work, but this video makes it seem like you've never taken an anthropology class nor have ever studied occultism or any other kind of real-world study of magic. Magic absolutely existed in the middle ages. Virtually every known culture in every time period has had some form of magical practice (even if it's something simple like carrying a lucky rabbit's foot). I think the question you meant to ask, was, "What if the magic practiced during the middle ages worked like in modern-day fantasy RPGs?"
I think Shad from Shadiversity has brought up a good point. Magic could stop or slow down technological evolution because there is no need for advanced technologies.
Unless magic can screw mages over, like in Warhammer, where in spite of magic being a thing, you can still find flintlock firearms, gyrocopters (among the Dwarfs, at least) and WW1-era stuff (with the Skaven).
One series of books that I personally think does this topic justice is the inheritance cycle, where it's explained that mages are an important part of the military, not just in offensive capabilities, but also in defense. For instance, if each side has an equal retinue of mages, it would be considered a waste of resources just to perform an artillery strike worth of fireballs or lightning bolts or whatever cataclysmic spell you can think of on the enemy, because their mages will only counter whatever it is you do. Therefore, the mages go into a sort of duel, and try to kill each other first before they try to kill any of the conventional forces sort of like an initial archer skirmish before real battle is joined.
Love that video and I'd love to experience a history were magic was a thing.
I could also very well imagine that guns wouldn't have been invented if Magic was a thing or the other way around that due the range of firearms they could also have sped up in development, since they proofed to be very effective against spell-caster.
Can I get a hell yeah!?
hell yeah!
Hell yeah! :D
HELL YEAH
4:54 that is pretty much what a dragon age templar is about.. they are not just regular dudes in armor
If we go by a fairly basic system of magic like Final Fantasy's, we're looking at _COLOSSAL_ improvements to quality of life. Elemental spells like Fire, Thunder, Blizzard, and Water are so rudimentary that a novice Black Mage can cast them with ease. Not only can they fight with these, but if they can hold back the power, even such simple spells could have mountains of practical uses. Fire (or Thunder) provides an easy heat and light source. Blizzard allows for food refrigeration long before it's achieved technologically. And Water? Water spells would be a _game-changer._ Instant, pure water with the wave of a hand! That alone would likely see huge boosts to survival rates, and all of this comes from an energy source the mage in question refills with a mere night's sleep!
Oh, and then there's White Magic! Illnesses vanish with a cast of Esuna, and Cure spells erase injuries with ease! Their first aid may well be better than our top-of-the-line medical procedures! And once again, with a resource renewed by a power nap!
it would work , but i have a question water going once it is out of your system that is going back into the environment and that is theoretically a infinite water after awhile that would cause floods and there would be less land
Well, if we really want to stick with the Final Fantasy theme, then Eidolons like Titan and Leviathan can sort out the ratio of land to sea! Problem solved, no way this can end badly... right?
Such an awesome video! You rock!
This video must've taken ages to edit! Thumbs up :)
Thanks! And yes it did :)
Actually Dimeritium in the witcher universe is quite a brilliant invention.
This means that, among other things, you'll have to also choose your armor depending on what type of magic you are expecting to encounter. Between that and also having to choose the right weapon, it makes for a complex war campaign.
We should also consider frost magic. Maybe the armor against it should be warm enough so that you don't get chilled to death, or at least not be rendered unconscious by it.
Finally a video about magic and metatron uploading
I always saw magic as a metaphor for the power of applied knowledge, and an affinity for magic as one for general intelligence. That being said, I wondered how it'd be if magical ability weren't this thing you just had or didn't have, but ran along a bell-shaped curve.
It'd be interesting, also, if there was savantism or prodigies of particular schools. How about individuals with not a gleam of skill on anything but runes or telekinesis?
As for monarchs needing to be the best mages of their realm, I'm not so sure. Knowledge (and the ability to critically apply it) are very important, but were not always with many of our illiterate, inbred rulers of the past. In societies people are expected to specialize. And I could much better see a successful monarch, normal in magical ability, be very intelligent and cunning in statecraft by knowing how to make use of his literate servant to read out treaties; his military officers (who may or may not be skilled in magic, but are very strategically minded) to provide insight in a current war; and a variety of mages who do things such as cast magical defenses around the castle, maintain the health of the monarch, and study under the ruler's protection in the nearby university-where they learn new ways to further improve the magical discipline for the betterment of society.
Great idea for a thought experiment in regards to magic in our historical setting. What was Italian cuisine like prior to the introduction of the tomato? It's probably like the rest of medieval Europe, but I'm just wondering if you have any special insight on that topic.
I feel like if magic were a real thing it would be heavily limited to a select few elites who were deemed loyal enough to the state or leader of the nation. Allowing too much access to it, even in terms of training people as magic guards or generals would be too risky. So I think it would only apply to Wars or whatever the leaders themselves wished to use their powers for, helping the peasants stay fed, removing a storm, or suppressing a revolt
I'd say having a mage king is all about what kind of magic he/she has, casting fireballs or lighting is not enough to control an entire country in my opinion ;) If not powerful enough there could be smart people enough to counter any magical power (arrows and so on). Having lots of mages within the controlling power, not just the king, maybe it could be more feasible, they could enforce control over a nation and select the regent within their caste. But still if all the other normal people use numbers they could be enough to be not as relevant as one that is more powerful with tactics and politics but not magic.
But What About Dragons?
More magic and medieval videos please! This was great. I would also consider what is the ... fuel for this magic? Any kind of resource be it metal, gem, fluid or even time would become also very expensive and probably state-controlled. What if the fuel for magic was life? Would they breed rats for example just to fuel their spells? I don't know! But this was very entertaining!
I’m a practicing occultist. My staff broke (I mean that the crystal fell off because the leather thongs holding it became brittle and stiff) and my dad was my magic staff repairer. He is a blind man who crafts his own canes out of hard wood, so I could think of none better to repair it.
If fire or lightning is being thrown at you, you don't want to carry any gunpowder as it will explode. The best protection against brief exposure to fire is woolen felt does not burn well and is a good insulator so fireballs and lightning bolts increase the importance of historical armor such as gambeson for fireballs and chain mail as a Faraday cage against lightning bolts. Healing magic could have a big affect on logistics and demographic, if armies and cities don't die from disease they can get a lot bigger and the odours can get even worse.
Nitpick: A full suit of armor, be it plate or mail already works as a Faraday Cage, as long as there are enough metal touching each other and is grounded. So a 12th century man-at-arm with a complete suit of mail (hauberk, leggins and a metal piece connecting the leggins to the sole of the shoe) is already protected against electricity.
In one sense, it would have affected them less than it would affect us today. The people of the Middle Ages believed that magic was real. Its existence wouldn't have been a conceptual crisis for them.
If you haven't read Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay, I highly suggest it. It's about a fictionalized version of medieval Italy that's ruled by two warring sorcerers. This video REALLY reminded me of that book.
Really, there is no reason a mage can't use full plate. Even most settings, outside games, it is usually a possibility its just not seen as the best use of their time because usually magic requires intense study and practice like becoming a doctor. Most mages, therefore, see the time needed to train their physique to use armor and weapons effectively as superfluous when they can just melt their enemies faces off with fire or lightning instead. Which is why, I think, in most stories where you see a mage who does do that it because they are actually fulfilling a role similar to a knight, an elite professional soldier that regularly partakes in pitched battles. After, even the strongest mages in most fiction can be killed by a crossbow as easily a peasant if they don't see it coming.
I think this would all depend on how powerful and how rare or common a mage is. I agree that they'd be the rulers or at least try to be so. But a mage is not invincible... So if thousands of people rise up against a mage King I could see them going down. And many stories explain things like this happening, which is why they aren't allowed in positions of power
According to this example, no rulers ever ruled in this world, as it just requires thousand of people rising up...
@@IIARROWS and that shit happened...
It probably did vikings left signs behind that indicated magic and spirits were a regular thing in those days but then again they were always high on shrooms so who knows
This got me thinking I’d love to see what you come up with making a setting based on medieval Italy if you ever considered it. How would their government be setup, their cities and militaries. Everyone always does England but what everywhere else. What period would you base it off? Early, high, late?
Wealthy families collecting and sponsoring Up and coming wizards, patronizing them. Marrying for magical bloodlines could all be very cool
Great video:) Thanks Metatron!
Hello Metatron, maybe you could make a reply to Scholagladiatoria "Is The Roman Gladius (Sword) Really That Good?" video?
The entire video would be only a few seconds long, and it would basically be Metatron agreeing with Matt.
@@JustGrowingUp84 Im sure Metatron could add some interesting notes from his perspective. Maybe he and his group could reenact roman centurion, explaining how to use Gladius and its strengths to new recruits. I bet it would look great.
@@dronillon2578 Yeah, I would like to see that.
Here in Brazil we have a similar saying.
"Limitation is the mother of creativity. Laziness, the father."
Great!!! I love when you reimagine things, i do love it every time
a bit like in the "Dungeon and dragon" movie. Even if it's an horrible movie, it display what a medieval society could be with magic users.
3:35 "first I believe that rulers will be mages". This one single drop of common sense made me love this channel even more than I used to. Yes! Naturally! If you want mages in a setting, and you don't want mages to be the rulers, you should sit and craft your magic system around the question "why mages didn't took political power?". Because if there is nothing preventing it (like, usually happens to be the case) they will!
We just assume the division of social roles between shaman and war-chief applies and suspend of disbelieve for story sake. What is fine. But costs consistency. "Realistically" there is no "balance" between "character classes" like warrior, rogue and mage.
Because warriors cannot take 3 times more beating than the average WW2 war tank, if they are humans, regardless of how seasoned they are. Thieves/rogues cannot turn invisibility on. The things that usually "balance" a fellow being able to explode hand-grenades around him without bother to carry hand-grenades are not less "magical" than mage's magic. If we have mages, and don't have those things to balance the field, power conflicts will incline in favour of mages. Most the time.
So often, that makes no sense to have non-mages in power.