I think I like my Miata better... first impressions driving an air-cooled Porsche 911 SC
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- This is my real first experience with a Porsche 911 of any generation. I've always been a bit cynical about them from afar, but naturally intrigued by their huge popularity among car enthusiasts. There must be a reason, right? So I jumped at the chance to experience one for myself when it came up.
This particular car is a 1978 Porsche 911SC. It has a air-cooled 3.0 liter 6-cylinder boxer engine (a.k.a. flat-six) mated to a 5-speed manual transaxle. It's a very interesting and iconic car, but does it live up to the legend?
In this video, I talk a little bit about the car and Porsche in general, look around this car inside and out, and take it for a test drive in town and on a fun windy road. From these impressions I form a few opinions, comparing it to the cars I personally have experience with, notably my Opel Manta A, and especially my NA Mazda Miata. The question in my mind is, with the value of this 911 hovering somewhere around $50,000, does it really provide that much better of a driving experience in the real world, compared to something like a Miata? I'll let you watch the video to find out what I think.
In the video after this, I fix some of the issues I had with the car, which you can check out here: • Much better! Fixing th...
Thanks for watching, and feel free to follow my IG for random updates and behind-the-scenes. / andrewdoescarstuff
CHAPTERS:
0:00 - Intro
0:55 - Porsche's Beetle Lineage
1:52 - Cockpit Impressions
4:15 - Driving Impressions - Town
9:30 - Driving Impressions - Sporty
15:51 - Conclusions
18:08 - Bloopers & Outtakes
#porsche #porsche911 #aircooled #classiccars - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
'Under 4000 RPM ' ? That's for rolling around town. You HAVE to be willing to push the car up towards the redline where it wants to live. The try doing it on some windy roads. Then try it on a racetrack. Do that and you will start to understand what that car is made to do.
That makes sense. I could see some glimpses of that when I did push it up in the revs. I think for me, a big part of the fun factor includes usability in the real world, which is maybe not this car's strongest suit.
@AndrewDoesCarStuff you simply need to learn how to drive cars with a torque curve high on the rev range.
Some years ago I had two BMW E34s, a 535 and a 525. I enjoyed driving the (slower) 525 MORE, because I had to keep the revs up to extract performance.
Learn how to do this and it will transform your relationship with every car - your Miata is a well-behaved housecat but also a GREAT little wildcat.
Re your comment "fun... the real world" - this sounds like a Zombie World of black-and-white TV. Experience life in colour!
Great review! Next time try a sorted one. A worn out and defect Miata probably no joy either. Love the video anyway 👍
Edit: Looking forward to the next episode😉
Yep you are right. I need to try some others before I really have a complete opinion. Thanks!
Sorry but this car needs work...this comparison is Bull...t !
100% what i thought
40+ year old bushings.. of course it feels like crap.
The Datsun Z cars were quite good in the late 70's.
Nope. Compared to Datsun Zed cars of the early 70s and late 80s, those of the late 70s were _not_ good at all.
@@assininecomment1630 Did you own one? I did, a 1978 280Z. Great car from my experience.
Who cares about a car you owned,@@dakotahayden6937? You're comparing one car you owned, with something/s you haven't mentioned.
I'm comparing Datsun Zed-cars in the late 70s (slow, low-powered, heavy, ugly), with other Datsun Zed-cars (those that had far better power-to-weight ratios, had less of the gauche styling 'gargoyles' of the 280ZX).
In your country, many so-called performance cars were poorly modified to comply with early pollution control laws. The 280Z was one of them. At least the 911 still had some decent performance, and hadn't been made heavy and ugly.
You're basing your opinion on an obviously worn 46 year old car that is the current darling of collector car speculators. If you're looking for a bargain in the 911 line, check out the 996 variant from 1999 to 2004. Not without some issues of their own, but bigger, more comfortable, faster, and better suited to modern day traffic. Plus most people turn their noses up at them so you can still get them at reasonable prices.
I have driven a few Miatas and always enjoyed it, but never enough to actually spend my money on one. I have driven every variety of 911 (and 912) from 1968 through 2023 and actually purchased one.
Thanks for that perspective! 996 is definitely the cheap one right now, I'd be interested to try one. Probably a good bang for the buck. Which generation do you own?
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff none now unfortunately. I had to switch some cars around due to family needs.
I did own a '99 Carrera 4. If you're looking for something light and tossable, I'd recommend sticking with a narrow bodied Carrera 2 from that era. Still some good buys to be had around the $20K range. Ironically, the convertibles tend to sell for less than the coupes.
The 2005 and up cars, 997 and forward, start getting heavier and bigger, moving more into the GT category.
I own a 996 (1999 Carrera coupe) and a Miata (2018 soft top). The Mazda holds its own in the fun department, but the 911 is clearly the more serious sports car and is a shit ton faster. Compared to its air-cooled predecessors, the 996 is objectively superior in almost every dimension (just read the reviews at the time!) although some of the romance and build quality of the old cars was lost. The market has passed harsh judgement on the 996, thank goodness because I picked up my brilliant little demon for a song. And my early build car still has a lot of the character of the old cars, with lots of mechanical noise and a full leather interior that still smells sweet. And it’s petite like the old cars, as well.
@@kevinrowley2579 Thanks for the detail, that sounds like it would be fun. Light and tossable would be preferable I think. I hope I can try one sometime!
@@boffam00 Thanks for adding your experience. Cool that you own both cars and they scratch a different itch for you. The "fun" vs. "serious" factor sounds about right. Really depends on how you like to drive, and what kind of roads (or tracks) are available in your area. Hope I get to try a 996 sometime.
no hate but you chose a bum example. I’ve been around Porsches literally my entire life, I was driven home from the hospital in a 993. I’ve been incredibly lucky to drive several G body 911s, and I literally didn’t experience a single problem you mentioned. I’ve never had issues with heavy steering or play in the steering wheel, never had a shifter with that much play, never had issues with the clutch feel. No, it's not fast. If you want something fast, buy a turbo. To be fair, I also would never ever say that a g body 911 is meant for town driving. I would strongly suggest you find a 993 or 964, those are the real gems. My first car was an NB Miata, and as fantastic as it is it has never ever been close to holding a candle to my dad’s 993 in any aspect except service costs. I would very much urge you to find a better and more modern example.
After hearing you compare it to your Miata so much, you really really should’ve chosen a 993 or at least a 964. I won’t mince words, comparing a car of this vintage to a 90s Miata is pointless.
I bet that silver spoon made food taste nice too😂
This was the example that I had a chance to drive, so I had to take what I could get. If someone wants to lend me a better sorted and/or newer example, I'm all for it!
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff fair enough. If you really want peak 911 you need a late model (1996-1998) 993 C2S
First he complains about issues with the shifter and steering rack on an example that obviously needs refurbishment. Then he's at a literal stand still and complaining about the "heavy steering". Seriously? Then the 'best' comment of the video, "I took it all the way to about 3,000 RPM and it didn't seem to have much power actually." 😂 I have a 550HP ZR1. He wouldn't find it very impressive below 3K RPM either...
I stopped the video at that point for obvious reasons. There is a difference between someone having an opinion that differs from your own but offers valid points of contention and someone that doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. Picking apart the condition of a specific example of a car is not valid unless it is a common issue among well maintained cars of the same model. Criticising the acceleration below 3K RPM is utterly asinine in sports car review.
I owned a pair of NA Miatas back in the day. The second one was an R-package with factory Bilsteins and no power steering. Loved it as it was barrel-o'-monkeys kind of fun. Then I moved to California and bought an aircooled Beetle. Loved it so much that I wanted a faster Beetle and went through multiple Porsches including a 914, 912, 912E and some 80s 911s.
The 911 is a grown up car. With the right setup it can be a fantastic canyon carver, a touring car or a track rat. The 915 gear box that's present in the '78 in the video requires some serious work to get good. My '84 had an aftermarket coupler, an internal short shifter and external short shifter too. Rebuild the dreaded 1-2 gears as well and it shifted extremely well, very mechanical. Next car I had was '87 with the G50 box and hydraulic clutch. Pretty modern in operation. I've owned both a coupe and a Targa before, prefer the latter for the fun convertible feel.
To the people saying that 911 is like the Beetle... well, not really. Early ones (especially the 912 with the 4 cyl engine) do feel quite Beetle-like. But the later cars from late 70s and into the 80s feel quite different. Yes, there are some similarities and a few parts even interchange but overall aside from the basic layout they're quite different. I still own my Beetle btw and enjoy driving both it and the 911 any day.
Thanks for adding your point of view & experience, very interesting.
"it's a little scary - I don't know if I like that." you might want to stay within your comfort zone - the beloved Miata.
To clarify that remark, I meant that because you have to plant your foot on the floor and wait for the power to come on, by the time the power surge comes, you're already at the next corner and have to slow down and start over. Admittedly I needed more time to get used to it and adjust my driving, I'm not used to screaming around at high RPMs.
@AndrewDoesCarStuff, you change down, using heel-and-toe, just BEFORE the corner, so that you exit onto the straight with the revs already where they need to be to accelerate.
Learn how to balance brakes v. engine-braking, using clutch and heel-and-toe, learn where the power comes in, THEN you drive her.
Learn this and you will discover why "driving" is not truly DRIVING, without a clutch. It will change your life. (Read that sentence again).
@AndrewDoesCarStuff, this applies to every car with a clutch, and the Miata's pedals are well-suited to heel-and-toeing.
Additionally, rear engine rear drive cars like to be pushed hard through corners, the more you accelerate the better your grip. This can be counterintuitive if you're used to cars that prefer off throttle in the corners
I'm glad that by the end you were starting to understand what the car is all about
I've been gaining this for years. I had a 79sc with a 3.2 swap and a 90 Miata. Sold the 911 and kept the Miata for 7yrs until someone hit it. Loved loved Loved the little car. Always though the 911 was nothing more then a big beetle had no regrets selling it ....... Well other then i sold it 3 years to soon. If i had waited man would i have made some real money for it. Bought a 03 boxster s to replace the Miata, very fun car for not a lot on money. Damn reliable too i drive it everywhere can't complain
Thanks for validating my first-timer opinion on this! Also a couple of people have brought up the Boxster, so I think I need to try one of those too if I can.
Have you ever even driven a beetle? If you had there is no way that you'd make the comparison. I have driven Beetles extensively. I've owned four of them. Some years ago I drove a 1970 911 and it was a huge eye opener. I had owned quite a few other performance cars and motorcycles. Faster yes, but that little 911 was much more direct than anything else I had driven. It was a blast to drive just puttering around at 45 mph. A modern sports car is numb and isn't really enjoyable until hitting triple digit speeds. The more modern, then more numb. A first gen Miata has some of that same feel, but definitely doesn't match the old 911. How could it? A Miata has power steering and power brakes. A beetle is more raw, but has a ton of play in the steering. The suspension is far inferior with a lot of body roll. The build quality of the 911 is superior to any Beetle as well. I now have a classic 911 hotrod and it is so far from any Beetle or Miata that I have to laugh when I read comments like yours.
To each their own. I’ve driven tons of beetles and still own one. I had a backdate SC with a 3.2 swap to me it was just loud, slow and cost me a ton of money to build. Did it have strong points, absolutely. Where they enough for me to keep the car, no. You say an Miata isn’t engaging because it has power steering. Have you ever driven a Miata!!!! Let alone one with a correctly tuned suspension a turbo or supercharged! Sorry these are every bit if not more “ engaging” then g body 911’s. Again everyone has an opinion
@@silver911100 Don't put words in my mouth. I said, "A first gen Miata has some of that same feel, but doesn't match the old 911." Power steering and power brakes put something between driver and machine. If by "engaging" you mean feel then yes, the 911 is more engaging than any Miata. The steering has more feel as well as the brakes. You can't argue that. The Miata's are powered and the 911's aren't. Yes, I've driven many Miatas on road and track. Never driven a supercharged Miata. I fail to see why you even brought that up. We aren't talking about power. There are 700HP air cooled classic 911's out there. There are Miatas out there with big V8's. So what? That's not what we're talking about.
Eh wherever you have your opinion I have mine and just like assholes they both stink.
You hit the nail on the head, Andrew. People don't get 911's from the late 70's because they drive so well. But you can't beat the sound of that engine and, as you noticed, it comes alive when you rev it. I would bet that the Miata is an all-around better sports car that is more fun to drive.
The Porche 911 is, well, as you noted, the big brother to The Bug with all that comes with that.
Glad to see another video from you; keep them coming and thanks so much.
Well said, thank you!
LOVED my Dodge Omni, well it was also Plymouth Horizon, same car but VERY FUN to drive. Passed a many mustangs in it with a 22" sub thumping in the back. Carol Shelby had some influence, just saying for those that do not know.
Comparing apples and oranges and trying to make an argument makes zero sense.
Apples and oranges would have been me comparing this to my Volvo 240 and saying that the Volvo is better because it has more cargo space.
The Datsun 280z was another well made car from the late 1970’s.
Fair! Though most people I've heard talk about Z cars say that the 280 wouldn't be their first choice, most seem to strongly prefer the original 240. I haven't driven any of them so can't comment. Add it to the list! Can someone lend one to me?
Really enjoyed the new video Andrew but REALLY ENJOYED the last two minutes - whatta hoot!! 😁
Thanks Rich! Glad you enjoyed the bloopers. This video was quite a process.
It's always interesting to hear the first impression of an old 911 from a modern era driver and you confirm what I've always expected. Most modern drivers would not like driving this car. The steering's too heavy, the clutch is too stiff, you have to press the brakes too hard! And the first one I ever drove had the 915 transmission and it seemed to me to have more in common with a John Deere product than a sports car. Then I drove my friends '88 with the G50 and my impression totally changed. As the happy owner of an '87 Targa for over 30 years I'd say it checks every sports car box like no other old sports car could, especially since you can drive the piss out of it and it never complains. You might work up a sweat driving it but it never overheats and the brakes never fade. It's always interesting and an odd slice of bratwurst unavailable anywhere else.
That G50 changed the game back in the day. I don’t disagree with the OP…older Porsches can be a bit of an acquired taste for sure. Steering wheel issue is simply a new bearing if I can call it that. I still love them though, crazy how prices have taken them beyond any hope of me getting one….now a more modern 996 with a manual! OP, go drive a 996 just for comparisons sake!
@timmusick9875 Thanks for verifying my take on some of the issues with this particular car. Good to hear that you've had great experiences with later ones. As I mentioned in the vid, I definitely want to try some others just to get a better idea for what the fuss is about.
@@grantlingley1385 I'd love to! Just need to find someone to lend me one...
Completely agree the G50 is the one to have. Also 87 brought the the added fan to the oil cooler, and the revised fuel mapping chip in the ECU (258 chip I think) with 217hp. I also hear the 930 tie rods make a big difference, not sure if you have done that but curious your thoughts!
Miatas are terrific cars! I owned an NB for a couple of years, can’t argue with the Miata. But I think you drove a very rough SC. And I’ve also owned a 964 for 26 years. Surprisingly, the Miata I owned reminded me of my old 911. I’ve not driven an SC, but have driven 3.2 Carreras, 993s, 996s, Boxsters, and also own a 2011 Boxster Spyder. The aircooled 911 is a bit of an acquired taste, but it gets under your skin and is my all-time fave.
I would agree with you completely. I did drive a bunch of SC cars, especially the early ones with smog pumps and no o2 sensor were not great running. This is not the way the were designed to be by Porsche, its how they had to be modified to be sold in CA. The 3.2 was the first 50 state car, and has a MUCH better modern fuel injection system.
People don't like to admit it, but the G-body cars were an awkward transition period where the tires got wider but before they implemented power assistance to any of the controls, so everything feels super heavy in these cars. The best 911s are really the early short-wheelbase longhood cars, '65-'68. There's a reason that these are so expensive in comparison.
Air Cooled Porsche Owners: (Samuel L. Jackson Pulp Fiction Voice) "Say…Miata…one more time!"
I hate when cars are offered for road tests which are not well maintained. You correctly called it, the shifter and the steering wheel both required some bushings. The same with the squeaky clutch which could most like just use a little oil. All are cheap and easy to fix, and would resolve the initial issues that you experienced. But now everyone thinks that 911's have sloppy shifters and steering, and squeaky clutches. This is absolutely not the case.
first off, it's always a good day to experience a Porsche. Second, As a 24 year Porsche Owner, I kind of agree with you and cringed when you jumped into a 1978 model that needs A LOT of love. You are comparing apples and oranges. This example looks like one that was not well taken care of. Also, if you compared similar model year Porsches to your Miata, than I think you would have a much different opinion.
Fair enough, and I think you're right about comparing a similar era. If someone offers to lend me one for another review, I'll be happy to do an update :)
If your benchmark is the Miata, almost no other car will have the same buttocks to blacktop feel. The raw "horse and rider" design philosophy is probably a little unrefined for der Vaterland. When driving one of our other 4 cars, I have to adjust braking onset and corner entry speeds from the miata standards of my commuter car NB.
Loved the video, really engaging. I’ve never driven a 911 but I’ve always wanted to give one of the air cooled cars a shot.
I’m fortunate enough to own and drive a 2021 ND2 Miata 6 sp manual (goodwin racing exhaust and progress lowering springs, 1” all around and stiffer) and a 1999 Porsche 911 (996.1) with a racing suspension (6K in suspension mods, adj bilsteins, H&R lowering springs, spacers on front and rear wheels and added sway bar (rear).
Comparing the 2 is complete apples and oranges.
The 911 is hydraulic, very analog accurate steering and throttle cable wired. Nothing like the SC in the video. The shifter is completely smooth and accurate- a pure joy really. The only real accurate part of the video is the “4K and above” driving experience.
Both cars are amazing, with little modifications, high performing when pushed and only revelatory when pushed or tracked, higher speed driving- particularly cornering, twisties (autocross) or any curved track.
Yes, this 911 SC and my 996 911 Carrera really don’t like around town, slower driving, particularly stop and go traffic. It’s completely meant to be driven, driven hard, when driven.
My ND2 is way way easier to drive in slower, around town, and can be rung out extremely well when needed. Any older 911- not so much, I’d posit. That’s been my experience as such. Both are world class (yes the ND2 (even stock) is world class), but the 911 is a unique, inimitable experience and drive with a huger power band, torque and racing capacity on a larger track or canyon carver drive- again, more than nuance- older 911, air cooled thru 996 or 997 911 is apples and oranges. Also compounded by the fact this SC and my 996.1 coupe is fixed roof, and my ND2 is a soft top. Again, Miata (lighter , 50/50 balance and poise, slower, little torque, vs. older 911, torquey, rear bias and amazing HP per overall weight ratio, 300 hp in a 2900 lb car, accurate, “light” front hydraulic steering, rather than electric steering (although quite great) in the ND2 Miata, is too hard to succinctly approach to compare on so many levels.
I had a weird realization a while back that a new Miata spec sheet in physical dimensions and performance is almost the same as a '80s 911....
Awesome Vid-but how does it compare to the Honda CRX?
How did you record the shots from behind? They look buttery smooth
Stuck a DJI Pocket 2 on a friend's car and had it track me. It can be shaky at times but works pretty well for an easy setup!
Miata is a great car: Mazda squarely hit the target with the first generation, and the design has evolved to near perfection over the years, but you must consider that Miata intentionally drew inspiration from sports cars of old: "Imagine an MG or Triumph that you can actually drive," was the stated goal. (I read "Road and Track" and "Car and Driver.") Certainly a sensible approach to building a new affordable, two-seat sports car, targeted toward enthusiasts who had long since put their British steeds out to pasture or sporty people who were just getting interested in cars and didn't want a reliability hassle. The entire Mazda parts bin was laid open: A tried and true drive train installed in a nicely styled, tiny roadster body with a modern suspension and steering. "Tossable handling." The roof didn't leak! Reliable electrics too! Mazda tried around 100 possible exhaust system designs to get the "right" sports car sound! Yay Mazda! You hit a home run! The tuner market is huge too! But how can you compare a heavily conjured, modern, purpose built Japanese sports car to a German sports car with roots going back to the 1930's? To get to the 911 SC that you drove took fifty years of development--mostly through racing successes--and this SC is over four decades old and is still driving! (To be accurate, the 911 SC has humble beginnings that actually precede the venerable VW Beetle.) Yes, the 911 SC and the VW Beetle have rear engines, and there the similarity ends. Isn't a Ferrari 512 BB just a glorified Fiat X 1/9? A friend made the comment that my 1988 3.2L Carrera is "Nothing more than a glorified Volkswagen." So, I took him for a ride. Having nearly soiled his drawers, He will never make that statement again.
I have a 2012 Miata retractable.These little sports cars are reliable and as much fun as you need
So many of the complaints in the video are either faults of the car being worn out and not properly maintained, and or the year. Early SC are not the ones to have, especially with CA emissions smog pump choking it - this isn’t how they were designed to be in Germany, or even in other states. This also assumes the engine is in top shape and tuned well (something that takes skill with CIS), and given the other areas in dis-repair it makes me wonder if the engine or trans are really up to snuff. How good is the compression, leak down, and plugs (rich/lean/stoich)? Also, keep in mind that the 915 gearbox while great when setup right (few are) is very old tech, as is K Jet/ CIS. It’s 60s era tech evolved, not even an oxygen sensor. I’d encourage you to drive a late 3.2 or 964 50 state car, that’s a much more fair comparison. Saying this as someone that’s worked on and driven both NB and ND Miatas and various 911s. They are both great cars. Keep in mind also the Miata is fun with no space behind the rear seats and it’s tough to put up with the noise and comfort issues for a long day, that’s not at all true in a 911. The way I see it, one chooses each car for different use cases. If you are going to compare them, please do a year for year comparison ie compare the same year Miata and 911. This comparison as it stands is flawed (1) the car is not mechanically up to snuff, but is compared to what looks like a super nice sorted Miata (2) the years are so far off the base features are not even close. A 964 with power steering, modern fuel injection, etc would be much more fair. Or the other way around would be to compare to a first gen rx7. I say this as someone with great respect and appreciation for both Mazda and Porsche.
I would suggest you compare your Miata to a 981 Porsche Boxster best in S or GTS variant that would be a lovely video.
Saying the 911 is "based on the Beetle platform" is like saying every modern front engine rear drive car is based on the Model T Ford platform!
Where you should have driven that car is early morning run down Stanwood to Sycamore, then up Coyote to West Camino Cielo, or take Mountain drive and up Gibraltar. You missed a great opportunity by only puttering around the city streets of SB, but at least you drove through HR.
And yes, you identified the thing about a 911, it’s very “street able”, sedate and mundane as a daily, then you can kick it in gear and ring it out through the corners. Also, it’s nearly 50 years old, that’s more like 25-30 years older than your Miata, which is also a kick ass like sports car, but no 911.
Well I have good news for you, because I did go for a drive up Gibraltar and recorded it with multiple cams & mics, so that'll be coming shortly as a standalone video. As pretty as the road is, it's quite tight and narrow, so you can't carry much speed or use all the beans. But still a fun drive, I think.
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff cool, looking forward to seeing that. I also like that you fixed some of the old car pigglies and have the before and after experience. The hype of a 911 is that it is designed to be “tame”, even sedate, for daily use while having the balls for spirited driving, even racing (period comparable cars). Also, as a collector car, Porsche owners tend to ignore mileage where Ferrari Owners freak out over every mile. 911’s are way more reliable than most high end collector cars. Consider yourself very fortunate if you’re lucky enough to buy, keep, & drive one.
I'd probably take an old Miata over an old Porsche, but would take a new Porsche over a new Miata. I'm known as a bit of a heretic.
That's fair, I think the divide between the two cars gets more extreme with every generation. Newer 911's are on a much higher level (and that's reflected in the price). The thing I wonder for myself is, would it be "too much car" to enjoy in real life? I do appreciate that the Miata has been able to keep things simple and approachable even in modern times.
A 992 911 is a great everything sports car. Useable and special at the same time. The only 911 I’ve owned since the 993 that I love. Oh and I owned and loved the 993 when all “true” Porsche nuts were claiming how the 993 is not a real 911. Those same guys said that about the 964 too. Now a different breed of crazies have elevated 993 and 964 prices to stupid levels. Get a current Porsche for the same (or even less) money. Way more car. And if you can’t afford it, nothing better than a new Miata.
I’m fortunate enough to own and drive a 2021 ND2 Miata 6 sp manual (goodwin racing exhaust and progress lowering springs, 1” all around and stiffer) and a 1999 Porsche 911 (996.1) with a racing suspension (6K in suspension mods, adj bilsteins, H&R lowering springs, spacers on front and rear wheels and added sway bar (rear).
Comparing the 2 is complete apples and oranges.
The 911 is hydraulic, very analog accurate steering and throttle cable wired. Nothing like the SC in the video. The shifter is completely smooth and accurate- a pure joy really. The only real accurate part of the video is the “4K and above” driving experience.
Both cars are amazing, with little modifications, high performing when pushed and only revelatory when pushed or tracked, higher speed driving- particularly cornering, twisties (autocross) or any curved track.
Yes, this 911 and my 996 911 really don’t like around town, slower driving, particularly stop and go traffic.
My ND2 is way way easier to drive in slower, around town, and can be rung out extremely well when needed. Any older 911- not so much, I’d posit. That’s been my experience as such. Both are world class (yes the ND2 (even stock) is world class), but the 911 is a unique, inimitable experience and drive with a huger power band, torque and racing capacity on a larger track or canyon carver drive- again, more than nuance- older 911, air cooled thru 996 or 997 911 is apples and oranges. Also compounded by the fact this SC and my 996.1 coupe is fixed roof, and my ND2 is a soft top. Again, Miata vs. older 911, is too hard to succinctly approach to compare on so many levels.
Miatas are great but I own 2 911SCs and I wouldn't trade either one for a Miata.
Hilarious! I love the review…you drove past my house here in SB!
Dang, small world!
If you tried my flawless 1986 Targa with 950 gearbox, it would probbably be more enthusiastic about classic 911. You should add the feeling that you belong to crazy car guys that 911 offers you unlike most other sports car and then you realize that the classic 911 price is not too high.
My Honda S2000 takes off pretty slow but still drives like new
Objectively, you're probably right (I’ve driven several Miatas and 911s) but whether a car drives better than Miata is beyond the point. Car preference is highly subjective - the car on the poster of your teenage bedroom is the one you lust after. If your poster showed a Miata - awesome, I totally get it! My posters displayed 911s and those are the cars are I feel so fortunate to have in my garage and drive. A new Miata is probably better in every measurable way but it would never give me the joy of my ‘teenage heroes’.
Yep I agree, preference is subjective. Funny story about the bedroom poster, mine as a kid was a Dodge Viper. Glad I moved on from that idea. But I never lusted after the Miata, in fact I probably turned my nose up at it before I drove one, like a lot of people. A buddy in high school had a silver '91 NA and he was nice enough to let me learn to drive manual in it. My young self was blown away at how fun it was to drive. And now that I have one of my own, I enjoy the simple, unpretentious nature of it. No need to impress anybody else when you're having that much fun. And no need to spend your life savings either.
I would suggest the Lotus Europa for a great 1970's sportscar!
Someone who does not rev a 911 will not get a Europa!
Even the Renault-engined Europas need to be reved.
@@ingrampowell9111 they need to be K-swapped for some real fun!
He said he's 6'4" a Lotus Europa is probably his shoe size
I own a NA and ND2 and they are fantastic. But, I have a lot of experience with the 1984 911 Carrera. Sure, the power doesn't come on until 4k, the steering is heavy at low speeds, the clutch is heavy and the handling is tricky at very high speeds. The ergonomics date back to the 60's, too. But, these weren't downsides. If you really want a challenging and rewarding car to drive, this is it. I have driven one daily and loved it. I also loved that it was not a car for poseurs
I would also point out that this one had some faults (loose steering column and shifter, etc) that that you can't blame on the design. This car is pretty old, after all. It is also a car that you should spend time with before judging.
That said, I would try a 964 or newer if you want a more modern but still very911 experience.
I have owned many air cooled 911s 3 911 SCs. My last one had a complete suspension upgrade and it was an absolute Beast. And yes you have to get the RPMs up to get to the power . All that being said my more modern Boxster 986 S with a Tune and suspension upgrade would to eat this car for breakfast.. it is beautiful but I think slightly worn out. A sorted out 911 SC would probably be a lot more of a pleasure to drive..
you got good, lively humor -> I've seen it in the aftermath of your video -> you should implement it in your monologue, it would spice it up and be the sweetspot of reviews ✨️ Greetings from Austria 🇦🇹👋
Good cars from late '70's, early '80's (I'm from Brisbane, Australia-so slightly different: BMW 2002, BMW 633CSI, BMW E12 M535i.
Brought to you by: BMW Club of Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
I'm sensing a theme here 🤔
Trendy tax is applied to any vintage porsche. Dont pay trendy tax.
It’s too bad the prices are so inflated because they really are drivers cars. A well sorted example is a vastly different experience than the car in this video. That said if you cannot or will not maintain it yourself you better have a tall amount of cash for your mechanic!
As a fellow Miata owner I will agree with you, the little car is amazing. A Japanese sports car is well sorted out, reliable, durable, and cheap to keep. People pay $50kish for a Porsche because they can.
Maybe if you got your hands on a BMW E21 323i, you'd find it somewhat more pleasant in low speed driving and commuting. Perhaps similar to the beautiful Manta you've got. It's an underappreciated classic in my mind. But I'm a bit biased having had an E21 as a restomod project car. 😊 I'm so glad I found your channel around the time you made the videos about recording audio from engine bays and etc.
Thanks for sticking with me! E21 is a cool looking little car. I didn't really talk about my Opel much in this vid, but I do find it more enjoyable to drive than this particular 911 as well. More responsive at "normal" speeds, easier steering, easier clutch operation, overall lighter feeling. Though admittedly the 911 handles much better.
Try out a 2009 or newer Boxster S. It will address all your very valid concerns in a next level Miata like manner.
Thanks, I'll have to add that to my list! Would like to try it.
I’ve been thinking about an air cooled 911, but just not sure. I don’t know anyone personally that owns one. I have a Factory Five Cobra, and a 2015 Mini Cooper S 2.0L Turbo, and the Mini is just as much fun to drive as the Cobra.
It's hard to say if an air cooled 911 would be "more fun" than the cars you already have. It's a different experience for sure. Only way to know is to spend some time with one, which is easier said than done! I was lucky to be able to spend some time driving this one, despite the issues. My whole thing is to look at the experience objectively and decide how I feel, rather than listening to the hype. We're all different. Just look at the one commenter who likes his ND2 Miata better than a Ferrari 458.
If you are not getting the rear move in these aircools, then you ain't driving it right 😂😂
From a long time Carrera 3.2 owner, that moment you felt at 13:00 is why the fascination still exists with these cars, none of the many shortcomings matter at that point. Cool review!
Very understandable! We car guys are often willing to overlook drawbacks because we find something special about the experience. I can see the appeal for sure.
I own a 1990 964 3.6.. Try one of those.. Leagues ahead of the 911SC in “modernness”! That broken column bushing needs fixing ASAP! I wouldn’t want to labelled a “hairdresser” in a Miata/MX5 🤣
Nice, I'll try one if the chance ever comes up! And if you ever get a chance to drive a well-sorted Miata on a small twisty road, I think you'll forget about that label.
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff LOL! My 77 years old petrolhead Father in-law drives an S2000 - Definitely a great one for your next video ! Cheers 😃
I learned to drive on an 86 911 targa. It's an endearing car and very mechanical but.... There's no power steering, no power brakes, it's a cable clutch (floor hinged) and the gearbox is objectively terrible.
For the record I loved driving it, so I get it. But I am not sure i would describe it as "good" either.
I have an ND generation Miata manual shift among our current cars, and it’s a joy. I’ve considered many times buying an air cooled Porsche, but Im thinking now the cost and hassle factor to keep it going is only increasing. You definitely don’t need to suffer that much to have a great driving experience.
This was great. I really like your style. If I made a car channel I would mimick yours. My first two cars back in the countryside of Finland in the 70ies were beetles, and they were really "beaten" in backroads in the woods and on frozen lakes. So I have always thought I would like a 911, and further more, that I would be good at driving it. Well, the latter still remains to be seen. Greetings from Sweden.
PS: One more thing I really love about your channel, is that I get to see a bit of California, that promised land of my generation. (I´m model -55)
3:15 that happens when people dont take care of their car...
the clutch probabaly needs new oil and also some lubricant.
the shifter needs new bushings, obviously. I mean this car is how old? 42 years?
I bet the owner took care of it with washing, paint correction and rust removal / prevention / motor and gear oil changes but never swapped out those old nasty bushings etc.
swapping old shifter and suspension bushings out + motor bushings will transform a car.
and seing this, i wouldnt trust the tires and brakes either, without checking them first.
Bless Your Heart.
BTW, the best Porsche is the 914.
Well, you were honest about your impressions and I can’t fault you for that. Ultimately, I don’t really think you were honest with yourself though. That’s sort of a different thing.
This car obviously is well-worn. It had a bad steering column bushing, bad shifter coupler and shifter bushings, probably a somewhat worn suspension, and who knows what that 915 gearbox has been through (or when the last time it was rebuilt/serviced)?
With your Miata, that’s like having the linkage in your transmission and the transmission itself be really worn/in need of a rebuild. It’s like unbolting the steering wheel from your steering column and letting it flop around. Probably also like before you replaced the suspension on your Miata too.
Worn cars with worn parts drive like shit. Some of them don’t drive at all. I inherited an SC and the shifter linkage was so bad that when I was driving it one day, I had to pull over because I literally couldn’t get it into second gear. It had gotten so bad that it basically wouldn’t select ANY gear.
That clutch needed an adjustment as well, now that I remember it.
Point is, SCs are great cars. You got into one that may be fine cosmetically, but was a dog mechanically. It’s no different than getting into any car with serious mechanical faults and wear and tear.
Now, Miatas are great cars too. I’ve driven my fair share of them and they’re arguably one of the best sports cars ever made, so it’s up against stiff competition. I think if you drove a properly sorted/well taken care of example of an SC, it’d be a much different experience.
It’s never going to be a Miata. It never was designed to be, really. But there’s a charm to it being imperfect.
Also, ultimately, when you drive a Miata, you go home in a Mazda. You’re seen in a Mazda. You tell others you drive a Mazda. Great car, still a Mazda.
You drive a 911, you do all those things in a Porsche. Like it or not, that matters
Yeah, it's a shame my first chance to drive one of these cars happened to be one with these issues. I did subsequently fix the steering column and shifter, which is in the video after this - th-cam.com/video/iujjTzrFglU/w-d-xo.html - and that did make quite a difference. But I agree that I need to drive more examples to have a better understanding. These chances just don't come up much.
I can see the 911's appeal for sure. But the price difference, especially for an old air-cooled one, is hard to justify. To your point, I think most of that is in the brand recognition / iconic status. Some people like to show off and flex their cool posessions. But if you simply want to have fun driving, Miata is hard to beat for the money.
One thing to keep in mind is the new miata will depreciate in the next 10 years to next to nothing while this will keep going up. Not the reason to buy a car but certainly a nice to have. In the US the 180hp engine was for your rules, the euro engine was tuned to over 200hp, I have this and find it has torque from down low.
I have an 85 3.2,you have to grab them by the scruff of the neck, familiarity and practice makes all the difference. They are heavy and compromised, but when you know what you are doing there is no comparison. The only replacement for an air cooled 911,is another air cooled 911. It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.
and no the Miata is not in the same league.
Miata Is Always The Answer!
Pls Drive a sorted example, with new bushings, setup, etc. Keep it a 3500-5000 and go play. You can’t drive these like a front engine JDM car. There should be NO slop in the steering column.
Great video for highlighting just how awful a worn out old 911 can be to drive, however if you were to drive a nicely sorted SC or Carrera 3.2 for example, it would be quite a contrast. Make no mistake, these well worn 911’s are not cheap to get sorted out. Even if you can’t do the work yourself, you will need to make a large financial commitment towards sorting the engine, transmission, shift linkage, steering, suspension and brakes. Once these old 911’s are setup properly, they are a joy to drive and importantly, they don’t require high speeds to feel truly involving.
Thanks. If the chance ever comes up to drive a better example, I definitely will!
Maybe .001% of drivers can actually get the most out of that car.
The rest of us will just end our lives, as we spin off the cliff...
I think the SC was always unloved because of the low HP, emissions restrictions and bumpers. I assume this was the worse air cooled generation.
Traditionally, the mid-year cars ('74-'77) were thought of as the worst. However, that perspective seems to have changed over the years.
I replaced the K Jet with EFI on mine and removed the factory AC, the heater blower motor (heat works just fine w/out the blower), and the cruise control, and probably lost 50 + lbs from the engine bay and added 15-20 hp in the process … My car does not have worn out bushings or heavy steering, nor is it slow and sluggish. Too bad most enthusiasts are priced out of these cars now , because (once sorted ) they are a real joy to drive and fairly easy to work on.
This is like claiming that I enjoy my Casio much more than a Rolex because the quartz shows time more accurately. Blah.
That's why I choose Timex
The air-cooled 911 is not a car, it's a cult.
I owned two in the 90's and early 2000's, and now have a 992. There is no way I would trade my new car for any air-cooled car, even a 993 Turbo.
The old cars are so antiquated in terms of suspension, power, comfort, convenience and safety systems compared to a new car.
This particular car is worn out and needs a lot of refurbishment, but my comments would be the same even if the car were in top shape.
They were great cars in their day, but times have moved on.
At minimum this car needs a new clutch cable, shifter bushings, steering column issue corrected. Too bad it’s been polished more than it’s been maintained. One weekend with an amateur wrench using TH-cam could fix this car.
The 911SC is one the finest vehicles ever made. Hand built out of thick German galvanized sheet metal. The 3.0 engine is known to be one of the most bulletproof Porsche ever made. Get headers and a Scart exhaust and transform the car into something more wonderful.
The Miata is a toy. A fun toy, yes, but no comparison to an air cooled Porsche.
The Porsche is an absolute classic beauty. Still love my NB more.
I had a ‘76 911S and it was… just okay… Hard to beat on it when you know that someone is willing to pay a ton of money for it just to sit in the garage to take it out to CC on Sundays.. sold it. On the other hand I had 4 Miatas so far. Also had C5Z06, 928S4, e30, Focus ST.. Enjoyed them all for different reasons.
Life is short, drive all the fun cars.
"Life is short, drive all the fun cars." Love this. I agree wholeheartedly. Variety is the spice of life. My only problem is that I get attached, so it's hard to experience different cars if you never sell anything 😆
Your video is on point.
The 911 does have a sweet spot.
Also, there is a huge difference between the performance envelope of a 1978 car compared to a 2020 car.
My uncle prefered his Miata over his 84 911 and his Ferari 308. He loved the Miata out of the three down in Florida.
Wow, even the 308! I've always had eyes for those (especially the GTB) even knowing they aren't that quick and have typical Italian car foibles. Your uncle's opinion just goes to show how good the Miata is.
Drive a turbo, your Miata could never be anyway near as fun as that. They accelerate violently like a 1000cc Superbike
Car of year in 1978 was the Porsche 928. Rear wheel drive water cooled V8 up front. What's not to like. And not stupid expensive.
The Comments Section are Insane! The Porsche 911 was not designed for everyone, and just because someone doesn't like it, doesn't make it bad. Is the 911 SC in the video the best example? No, but a lot of what he's saying is accurate. When I got my first 911, I loved the feeling of the engine in the back, revving up to the high RPMs, and the steering was everything I wanted in a car. I'm personally not a fan of Miata's, but I have friends who drive nothing but Miata's. Probably the biggest thing I hate about Porsche fans is this idea that if you're not driving a Porsche, you're not really driving... Which is so dumb. What makes cars special IS THE FACT THEY FEEL DIFFERENT!
Thanks for this. Well said!
Loved the video Andrew. I'm sure the car is better after you fix it up, but 50k is simply isn't a good value for the driving experience.
People pay a premium because it's vintage, it's a classic shape, it's got a distinctive drivetrain.
I'm a bit biased but the best driving experience for the money that everyone sleeps on is the 986 S.
Well said, thanks. And you are right, people do tend to ignore the Boxster, but I bet that's pretty fun. Maybe I should see if I can rent one :D
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff the 986/987 generation is literally 85% identical to the 986/987 in parts and design, with the engine and transmission flipped in location. People just hate on them because they don't look like a 911, but in reality it's almost the same car with slightly detuned engines and better weight distribution.
I'm very practical and budget conscious, so to me it's rather funny that Porsche managed to expand their clientele by selling basically the same car for cheaper, and that enough people are snobby enough to continue to buy 911s.
Nice video! I have driven both, and both are great cars. The Miata was a lot more cramped, however it fit like a glove. The new Miata had enough power and felt and drove like a classic sport's car. The 911 is better quality, better looking in my opinion, and more fun to drive. The Miata is much more usable for a daily, cheaper to own and performs better when comparing price. The Porsche is a third car for weekend drives. The Miata would be a great choice for a daily driver.
Valid take on this, thanks!
It is beautiful on the outside -- love the whale tail -- but that one's had 120K miles of being ridden hard and put away wet.
I drove a 930 turbo of the same vintage in Germany and it was a precision instrument, closer to the Formula 2000 I had seat time in that summer than any normal high performance car including front-engine Porsches around that time. (The 944 was better balanced. You have to hang the tail of an old 911 out a few degrees before it gets fun. Don't lift off.)
My ND1 miata didn't make me stop thinking about Porsches until it had the full Whiteline sway bars kit and an engine tune for super premium gas. But when not driving it, I still think about Porsches.
Drive a 993 next plz
Got one I can borrow? 👀
I’ve owned a 72 R/S conversion an 87 3.2 G body Carrera ( with 12K mikes immaculate) and a 2010 991 gen2 turbo ( daily drove all )
Got a ND2 BBS / BREMBO club 3 months ago .
The Miata blows away the G body 911 as a pure drivers car on pretty much all keep points except steering feel ( 911 Hydraulic)
Imho the ND2 club is one of the best true sports cars I’ve ever driven ( I’ve hadserious exotics in the past)
Below is my top 5 owned drivers cars
1 - 16M scuderia
2 - M3 CSL
3 - ND2 Club
4 - 2014 Z28
5 - 458
That's pretty amazing that you even rank the ND2 Miata over a 458. What this says to me is that you maybe have a similar take on what makes a car fun to drive - part of that equation being real-world usability.
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff I got the 458 in its first year super low mileage ,
It was great and I daily drive it for a year including track day and road trip
The 16M was way rawer thigh not as easy/ fast but honestly the ND2 club has totally blown me away
IF my ego had not got in the way I’d have got one way earlier
I also daily drove the first gen boxster spyder for 18 months
I prefer the ND2
Quit short shifting. Air cooled engines need rpms to stay cool.
Jeez! Finish prepping it for sale and then do a review. Easy fix for the shifter with new bushings and maybe the spring is broken. Still won't shift like the Miata. Steering column bushing is broken and there is a simple and cheap replacement available. Steering should only be heavy below 5mph. The clutch and/or bushings need work and should NOT squeak. With those things wrong it probably needs at least a tune-up to deliver good drivability. It might have poor compression, broken head studs or worn valves. A 1978 911 SC has Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection and not MFI. If this 911 really gets sorted and prepped for sale the current owner might just want to keep it. At 6'4" can you even fit in your Miata with the top up? I know can't which is a shame because I do like them. Heck, I once owned a 74 Opel Manta which was pretty cool. Other good cars in 1978 were Datsun 280Z and Saab 99 Turbo. I owned one of the latter.
You're right that it would have been more fair to do the review after fixing the issues. Fact is, I had a limited amount of time with the car and did what I could. The good news is that I talked the owner into letting me fix the issues (as you mentioned, steering column bushing, shifter bushings, and shift rod coupler) which I'll show in the next vid. They helped improve the experience a lot. As for fitting in the Miata with the top up, I do fit, but it's snug!
Wow, that’s disappointing the owner would try and pass this car off with those repair issues.
You missed the point of these cars. To be sure they are an acquired taste. Someone once wrote that Porsches
were made for the road but when you drive it you feel like you’re in a race car.
The fun is in the amazing grip when rotating through a corner. Or the sounds. Or threshold braking with that amazing weight shift. This car invented steering feedback. Perhaps the SC was not a great example. I have a tidy 3,2 Euro spec that has tons of torque for the city. You needed to try a better version of the SC.
Dude, it's almost 50 years old!!
Your video should be required viewing before anyone purchases their first pre1990 911. Everything you dealt with is expected……unless it is properly sorted. This is a terrible first car for you to drive or perfect depending on your goals. A well sorted and maintained version would have been totally different. That’s why prices range from, let’s say low $40s usd to $90s for this precise era. Maintenance and care matter and price reflects it. You drove a trashy car. Had a trashy experience. Very fair review. From an 85 owner. Cheers
Thanks! Yes unfortunately I didn't have the luxury to choose a perfect car to try, this just happened to be the one that presented itself. After a lifetime of hearing all the hype surrounding the 911, this was a sobering first experience. I'm certainly not going to judge all 911's by this car though and would be more than happy to try others if I get the opportunity.
Omg that Porsche is dead sexy bro… even with the age and wear
For the G body cars a European Carrera 3.0 is better than the SC. Otherwise a 87-89 Carrera 3.2 which has a G50 gearbox.
I love all the mechanical sounds coming from this car.
As far as value, air cooled 911 don’t deliver a lot of performance for what you will spend.
I think you would like a Porsche 914
Air cool 😎 life 👊🏾👊🏾👊🏾
The air cooled 911s are nowhere near as good as the price would indicate. Mom in a minivan or Camry will smoke you off the line. If you’re an engineer into odd and esoteric design you’ll find it interesting. However, if you can’t do all the work on it you’ll quickly learn to hate the outrageous prices charged by garages. Even if you do all the work yourself, parts prices will be painful. Self disclosure: I drove Porsches for 30 years before finally walking away, my favorite air cooled model was an '83 SC Cabrio (first year of the cab). When newly tuned, valves adjusted correctly, and top down, the sound was glorious. My favorite modern/water cooled model was a 997 S Cab.
Thanks for adding your experience.
Give it the beans. Grab it by its neck.
Triumphant TR6 was great.
Not getting great first impressions from a car built in 1978. Who could have seen that coming... good video, I'm probably just a bit jealous that I still haven't driven a 911 of any age.
You're not wrong and wrong too. These are way beyond being a value for driving dollar. Your example is obviously lacking in some areas which you said you'll address. The 915 trans is loved by some, G50 in the 87+ G Body is more modern and possibly more your speed. Once you've addressed the issues, drive it like a two stroke dirt bike... the magic is on a windy road hovering between 2-4th gear keeping the revs high and right to the top of the rev counter. Fix the issues that you indicated you're going to and change your driving style to match and you'll be more rewarded than the first go with it
Fair take, I think you are probably correct on all counts. The value for dollar is a bit subjective, but the market is what it is.
I love my miata but damn do these look nice
lol...a non turbo charged air cooled 911 seems scary? Buckle into the 991.2 911 GT2 RS...the Grim Reaper...if you get froggy with it and don't know what you are doing it will get you dead (a guy who has owned a few 911 Turbo's and now owns a 2018 GT2 RS.
“Took it all the way 3,500rpm” but the car should t be shifted before 4,500! This car needs a lot of work, but he doesn’t understand the vehicle he’s driving at all.
Hey Andrew, you’re driving a near 50 year old car. And although she’s a beauty, she’s in dire need of some maintenance. I’m kind of surprised that your friend is selling it in this condition. Porsche’s are some of the rare cars that owners are easily capable of doing most of the maintenance themselves. And most of problems here are relatively inexpensive and easy to take care of.
As far as the power coming in above 4000RPM’s, nearly anyone who has heard of Porsche’s know these engines love to rev! You have obviously never driven a Honda S2000. They, like Porsche’s come alive when you drive them in a “spirited” fashion. You keep referring back to your Miata… and while they’re fun cars in their own right, they’re not a Porsche. You compare 50 year old technology to a modern Miata… hardly a fair comparison. Maybe compare the Miata to later 2000’s 911 (997, of 991). Apples to apples.
Yes, after doing this I urged the owner to let me fix those issues, so I did that and shot a video of it, which I just published today - th-cam.com/video/iujjTzrFglU/w-d-xo.html - Definitely helped a lot.
Having never driven one before, I wasn't accustomed to the rev range yet. Getting a lot of flak for that, but the whole point is that it was my first experience with one. As for the Miata, I can only compare to what I know. Both cars have a similar purpose, to be fun driver's cars, but there's a very dissimilar cost of entry.
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff just watched your shifter and steering column repair video. Well done 👍! Having some mechanical skills to do these repairs has made this car a much more enjoyable experience!
Needs significant work.... compare it to a rough Miata/MX5.
I've got a 1993 Miata, red of course, that's 100 percent stock and will probably stay that way as long as I'm alive. I've been lusting after air cooled 911s ever since I was a kid. I think the air cooled Turbo models are some of the sexiest cars ever produced, with a nod going to the 80s era whale tail models with chrome ring insert wheels as the best of the best. All that being said ever air cooled 911 is overpriced. No wait I'm wrong, they're all ridiculously overpriced. They're great but they're not that great. Even if I win the lottery I don't think I could ever stomach paying the asking price for them. I know it's not all about speed but the whole 911 experience but imagine what type of Miata you could build yourself with the money you would spend on an air cooled 911. T won't ever look as good as a 911 but if you did throw that much cash at Miata you'd trounce any air cooled 911 even the legendary RUF Yellowbird. Granted there wouldn't be much Mazda remaining in your Miata once you put some variety of LS engine, a six speed beefed up manual ,the rubber to put the power down, the brakes to stop it and the aero to make sure your Miata becomes an actual bird when dogging RUF's crown jewel, but you'd have a beast of a car and the NA Miata is the it car right now.
Well put! It's fine to have love for both cars, of course. But the money vs. fun factor is hugely in favor of the Miata. The only people who seem to take issue with this opinion are people for whom money isn't a concern.