I'll never understand why cheaters cheat on stream. Like you have to be so fundamentally incapable of resisting the urge to cheat to do it on stream. Like if there are people stupid enough to do this, there have to be a lot more people not getting caught. So sad
The interesting thing is that this was a team competition and his two teammates had already won, so he could have advanced even if he lost, but because his cheating was discovered, their team was banned.
its because those players cheat all the time, they get into a habit of cheating every single time so they likely forget that they are on restream because they are focusing on their cheat
This was a team competition held in Shenzhen, where two teams each selected 3 players from their maximum of 6 members to compete in a best-of-three (BO3) format. Dramatically, when the cheater used Capture Energy to get Marnie, their two teammates had already secured victory. However, due to this act of cheating, they ultimately lost the match. (I'm not sure about the final punishment, but it seems that all their tiebreaker points (not sure if it's called like that) were deducted, leaving the team with no chance to advance to the knockout stage.)
@artbanks27 you are always allowed to ask your opponent how many cards are in their hand. To avoid the first cheat when your opponet picks up their deck ask them to position their hand in a way that the deck isn't directly above the hand. An honest player will gladly move their hand up.
@@artbanks27 start of their turn, at the end of their turn, once they're using a card, or whenever you feel like it etc you can simply go "cards in hand?"
Hard part about this in Pokemon is how often a player's hand size changes mid-turn compared to MtG. If you are going to micro-manage your opponent's turn, your local community is probably going to ostracize you as being a "sweaty player" even though you are really just trying to rightfully protect yourself with information. And yes like someone else said, the needless compulsive hand fidgets do effect this too.
I've been to events at my LGS with stricter enforcement and harsher punishment than official tournaments. Full ban from the store, and the owner knew all the owners of the other stores in the area so word spread quick. It was like 5 years before the guy was allowed to play there again.
On my previous Premier Ball League in Malaysia, our judge did not even bother to assist in the preliminary stage (1st day), when opposing is stalling twice (each takes about 6-8 minutes), the judge just said "wait" 😢
Part of the problem also is the fact that most judges don’t do anything or usually make the wrong call. Sometimes it not even worth calling a judge. I’ve had more issues with regional judges than anything.
I never understand why people cheat in a kids card game :( I've organized tournaments and I always encourage people to call for a judge right away. I've had so many players come up after the tournament when matches are finished and prizes are awarded telling me "yea my opponent did XYZ in the first round can you fix it" and I have to say no most of the time because I can't do much investigation at that point.
when deck searching it's always a good idea to have your hand away from your deck and not allow your opponent to hover their deck over their hand while searching also. even if you or your opponent aren't cheating, you're reducing the risk of cards accidentally falling from the deck into the hand on the table.
Some forms of cheating could be remedied by TPCI having stricter guidelines for things that can allow people to cheat easily. For instance, you should be forced to set your hand aside when searching your deck, so they're away from one another. On top of that I think a lot of cheating goes by due to the time limit systems. Let's say you lose game 1, so you're onto game 2, so now you need to play fast in order to get 2 wins so as to avoid a tie, or even worse a loss if the 1st game went long. You have to do everything quickly - let's say your opponent TM Evos, you need to start playing right away, you won't look too carefully at them shuffling their deck after the Evo, you gotta focus on your plays ASAP. So they can cheat a lot more easily in that scenario because you're pressured by time. There obviously has to be a time limit, games cannot go on forever, but I think if we had just a little more time, people would be more able to pay attention to their opponents and catch them cheating. It could also help if the tie system was reworked such that having a prize lead (let's say up 2 prizes) on your opponent in a tie scenario gives you a win, which also alleviates time pressure and is just imo a better system.
I mean... if Eder can cheat on stream, get DQ'd and then never get banned. What's the point of calling over a judge when there's really no punishment or if you're the only witness with your word against theirs?
I like the idea of perma bans. Permanent consequences to teach people they can’t do this kind of shady stuff in the real world or they’ll go to jail too
I’ve been convinced this is a big problem for a while. Would be interesting to see player win rates on stream vs off stream. With all the data out there it should be possible to do.
I agree. Instant BAN. If they cheat on stream, they have no integrity and have done it so many times that they think they are too good at it and will never get caught. I can't stand it man. If they won previous events, should they fine the players for stealing Pokemon prizing?
Old yugioh player now primarily focused on pokemon. This sort of thing would happen constantly at events. People didnt like their match up they would just palm exodia, often larger folks with massive hands, but Yugioh makes it much simpler with their japanese standard size. This is just someone caught on video, there are many more players like this.
@@jkromes20 Nope, he'd do it at events. Regionals. Shonen jump qualifiers, later YCS. Would actively admit to the rest of our "Team" that he did it and got away with it. Keep in mind, this was the early days 2010 at the latest.
Agreed with permabans. Competition is only a Competition if everyone follows the rules. Those who dont follow the rules are not welcomed. Kick them. They can go play other games with their regrets.
Bring a bodycam to regionals? Viable strategy? I mean your opponent is consenting to their image being taken and there is this one photographer just taking pictures of people throughout the tournament and selling them later, no one minds and I don't think he's a Pokémon affiliate either...
no one will wait until you can review all the tape to check it, plus you'll be "safe" with that in mind, so maybe you'll be softer when watching your opponent's plays, so carrying a camera with you can have the opposite effect at the end of the day
@@ElMarto619 I was just thinking to intimidate people a bit, of course you need to watch your opponent, wont be helpful to find they were cheating retrospectively. But if they do, I can immeditely show video proof to a judge and there is no debate...
people won't call over judges because there might be uncertainty in whether it was actually something shady or you just are being paranoid or imagined it. You don't want to be the guy accusing everyone just because you're paranoid so you just let it slide. I know it sounds silly if you literally see blatant cheating with your own eyes, but even in those examples where it's obvious the cheater will deny and come up with a reasonable excuse to gaslight you and make you start questioning it yourself and whether you should bother bringing a judge into it.
Many Cheaters (the best ones at cheating at least) use tricks to distract their opponents, in both clips the cheaters put the cards wh they know the other player os looking away.
I think the biggest thing is informing players what to look for with cheating, and making sure that as players you keep track of the board state. Also, major thing is be aware of is distraction tactics. CUT AFTER YOUR OPPONENT SHUFFLES YOUR DECK. Stacking bad cards to the top of your opponents deck seems to be a pretty common cheat kn MTG. (Pretty sure that’s legal in pokemon.) And 99% of players will not care if you call over a judge if one of you makes an actual mistake. If someone gets tilted about you calling a judge, that’s a bit sus. Tbh, I don’t think pokemon has a major cheating problem. At least at more local comp events, if you’re at the top tables you’re likely going to have either judges eyes on you or a bunch of spectators if your game doesn’t end quickly.
At a case tournament back during Stellar Crown, my 4th round opponent was cheating. After round 3 a few players dropped out because the lcs wasn’t doing a top cut when there should have been. Once they dipped, the judge left too smh. I was running Hydrapple and my opponent had Zard with Pult and I run both Toedscruel the blocks cards being brought back from the discard pile to hand and Toedscruel Ex that protects my mons from effects of attacks done any mons that have a grass energy attached. I won match 1 and during match 2 and 3 he started not shuffling properly and moving cards to top of his deck and I was trying to find a judge to notify them. It luckily ended in a tie because I started taking a good while to do my turns to prevent the cheater from winning the round. I told the lcs about it but they did nothing about it and let it go. Haven’t went back there for any tourney since!
that´s why magicians are banned from tcg tourneys, and you cant look at your deck (nor you opponents) while you are shuffling it, cause you can place cards on top and on bot to make the perfect draw to you or the worst hand to your opponent
Cheating in locals for cups and challenges is way higher then ppl even imagine so I can only think at a higher lever with bigger prizes like a regionals it happening alot and ppl just don't catch it as a professional dealer I see things that most ppl do not I've seen some crazy stuff in my home town
Cheating on STREAM is crazy. Lmao. I get money is involved but it’s a children’s card game at the end of the day. What’s bad too is SOMETIMES it can’t be proven if they get caught by their opponent. I’ve seen a lot of shady nonsense since I’ve been playing. I agree with you though. Call a judge. That’s what they’re there for. Don’t be afraid. Especially if you feel like something is up.
cheating is cringe but doing it on camera is crazier lol. back in the day at yugioh tournies we'd have two refs with laptops typing up the games so youd never be able to do this. theyd catch the mystery card appear in the hand asap
I’ve seen people stack their deck and palm cards, but putting the perfect 7 on top of your deck is new to me 😂 How stupid do you actually have to be to cheat on stream?
I don't think cheating is as common because cheating on stream is likely representing a higher sample than cheating across the board. If you think about it like a normal distribution, the amount of players featured on stream represents around 1-5% of players playing in the tournament. Even if you have 2 matches per round, and 4 new players each round, that still is only 60 players over the course of 15 rounds of matches (assuming you streamed rounds 1 & 2), which in a tournament with 2000 players, would be around 3% (not counting top 8, which would push you to 3.4% if none had been featured before). So you are talking a very small slice of any tournament. The reason I bring that up is because if you think cheating is effective (which it almost certainly is), then for the players that do cheat, their normal distribution curve gets pushed significantly to the right, meaning that they'd show up more often on stream when compared to the general population. So the fact that you only see 1 every several regional/major, means that it is just not a common problem. Does it happen? Obviously. Is it a problem that everyone should be worried about? For the average player probably not. For players who are pushing for day 2s and top 8s, likely yes as there are likely to be more cheaters in your pool of players when compared to average players.
This why I personally don’t like when players move their “options” to the front/bottom of their deck while they’re prize checking or finding all their options. To me it just seems like a way of stacking.
We all should open the perfect 7 every time. 60 card is too easy to brick. They are only righting a few wrongs. This is why good card games don't have mana system, or an unfair prize system. That being said, you gotta be dumb full of it to cheat on stream. Not worth getting caught
@Spixxxx can't deck build better if the Meta requires you to run 1-ofs or take the loss on MUs. I can't understand how pokemon tcg players can accept 60% start rate as acceptable.
@@boxkid759anyone who played other card games will find a better hand fix system than PTCG. Can't fault people to right the game's wrongs. Should have everyone open the perfect 7, game is not broken, if everyone opens their best hand.
I’ve seen people stack their deck and palm cards, but putting the perfect 7 on top of your deck is new to me 😂 How stupid do you actually have to be to cheat on stream?
I'll never understand why cheaters cheat on stream. Like you have to be so fundamentally incapable of resisting the urge to cheat to do it on stream. Like if there are people stupid enough to do this, there have to be a lot more people not getting caught. So sad
The interesting thing is that this was a team competition and his two teammates had already won, so he could have advanced even if he lost, but because his cheating was discovered, their team was banned.
its because those players cheat all the time, they get into a habit of cheating every single time so they likely forget that they are on restream because they are focusing on their cheat
perma banning is soo necessary if things like this are happening with a card game thats supposed to be played for fun!
I feel the same way about thieves now, everyone streams and cameras are everywhere. And yet we keep seeing clips of grown men sneaking cardboard
the point that this dude got second in the last tournament in Jinan and got top 8 in Beijing last summer was also crazy
This was a team competition held in Shenzhen, where two teams each selected 3 players from their maximum of 6 members to compete in a best-of-three (BO3) format. Dramatically, when the cheater used Capture Energy to get Marnie, their two teammates had already secured victory. However, due to this act of cheating, they ultimately lost the match. (I'm not sure about the final punishment, but it seems that all their tiebreaker points (not sure if it's called like that) were deducted, leaving the team with no chance to advance to the knockout stage.)
um the whole team got their accounts deleted (I live in china)
Pulling a hand out your pocket with a 53 card deck is a true Yugioh Rare Hunter move.
coming from MTG. this is why i always keep track of how many cards are in hand
Any good way to do this?
It seems difficult because many players like fidget a lot.
@artbanks27 you are always allowed to ask your opponent how many cards are in their hand. To avoid the first cheat when your opponet picks up their deck ask them to position their hand in a way that the deck isn't directly above the hand. An honest player will gladly move their hand up.
@@artbanks27 start of their turn, at the end of their turn, once they're using a card, or whenever you feel like it etc you can simply go "cards in hand?"
Hard part about this in Pokemon is how often a player's hand size changes mid-turn compared to MtG. If you are going to micro-manage your opponent's turn, your local community is probably going to ostracize you as being a "sweaty player" even though you are really just trying to rightfully protect yourself with information. And yes like someone else said, the needless compulsive hand fidgets do effect this too.
@@artbanks27Pay attention to game state.
Cheating while using marnie mat...
Unforgivable 😡
she would be so disappointed fr
☠
Simp for children 😂
I've been to events at my LGS with stricter enforcement and harsher punishment than official tournaments. Full ban from the store, and the owner knew all the owners of the other stores in the area so word spread quick. It was like 5 years before the guy was allowed to play there again.
I always make it a show to put my hand opposite of my deck during searches and now Im probably gonna ask opponents to do that going forward.
I do this also.
On my previous Premier Ball League in Malaysia, our judge did not even bother to assist in the preliminary stage (1st day), when opposing is stalling twice (each takes about 6-8 minutes), the judge just said "wait" 😢
Part of the problem also is the fact that most judges don’t do anything or usually make the wrong call. Sometimes it not even worth calling a judge. I’ve had more issues with regional judges than anything.
I never understand why people cheat in a kids card game :( I've organized tournaments and I always encourage people to call for a judge right away. I've had so many players come up after the tournament when matches are finished and prizes are awarded telling me "yea my opponent did XYZ in the first round can you fix it" and I have to say no most of the time because I can't do much investigation at that point.
when deck searching it's always a good idea to have your hand away from your deck and not allow your opponent to hover their deck over their hand while searching also. even if you or your opponent aren't cheating, you're reducing the risk of cards accidentally falling from the deck into the hand on the table.
Some forms of cheating could be remedied by TPCI having stricter guidelines for things that can allow people to cheat easily. For instance, you should be forced to set your hand aside when searching your deck, so they're away from one another.
On top of that I think a lot of cheating goes by due to the time limit systems. Let's say you lose game 1, so you're onto game 2, so now you need to play fast in order to get 2 wins so as to avoid a tie, or even worse a loss if the 1st game went long. You have to do everything quickly - let's say your opponent TM Evos, you need to start playing right away, you won't look too carefully at them shuffling their deck after the Evo, you gotta focus on your plays ASAP. So they can cheat a lot more easily in that scenario because you're pressured by time.
There obviously has to be a time limit, games cannot go on forever, but I think if we had just a little more time, people would be more able to pay attention to their opponents and catch them cheating. It could also help if the tie system was reworked such that having a prize lead (let's say up 2 prizes) on your opponent in a tie scenario gives you a win, which also alleviates time pressure and is just imo a better system.
I certainly think an extra 10 minutes would make a big difference in best of 3 scenarios. Good luck getting them to change that though.
You should do a video on when you have called over judges. To give newer tournament players an idea of when you think it's necessary.
Fun fact, the Peru guy's name is Edder, eerily similar to Eder from Mexico
This is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. And for sure many people do this offstream and go unnoticed, a real shame.
I mean... if Eder can cheat on stream, get DQ'd and then never get banned. What's the point of calling over a judge when there's really no punishment or if you're the only witness with your word against theirs?
He should have pile shuffled. 😂
This is why I always ask my opponents how many cards in hand
you can do high reso monitoring for multiple tables at once with multiple angles and have an A.I. scanning for anything weird.
I like the idea of perma bans. Permanent consequences to teach people they can’t do this kind of shady stuff in the real world or they’ll go to jail too
Imagine not knowing your opponent cheated like that. Let's imagine how often it happens on pro level.
lol the 2nd clip is hilarious
I’ve been convinced this is a big problem for a while. Would be interesting to see player win rates on stream vs off stream. With all the data out there it should be possible to do.
Don’t think there are enough streamed games to provide a statistically significant sample size
Great video man I love this type of discussion content.
I agree. Instant BAN. If they cheat on stream, they have no integrity and have done it so many times that they think they are too good at it and will never get caught. I can't stand it man. If they won previous events, should they fine the players for stealing Pokemon prizing?
Old yugioh player now primarily focused on pokemon. This sort of thing would happen constantly at events. People didnt like their match up they would just palm exodia, often larger folks with massive hands, but Yugioh makes it much simpler with their japanese standard size. This is just someone caught on video, there are many more players like this.
Literally no one palms exodia lmao. You mean like school yard stuff?
@@jkromes20 Nope, he'd do it at events. Regionals. Shonen jump qualifiers, later YCS. Would actively admit to the rest of our "Team" that he did it and got away with it. Keep in mind, this was the early days 2010 at the latest.
@ idk how someone would get away with that. I’ve been playing since 2005. Pretty wild people would even try that
@@jkromes20 After seeing it so much in Yugioh, i struggle to trust a lot of the players that you see at top tables consistently for pokemon.
Agreed with permabans. Competition is only a Competition if everyone follows the rules. Those who dont follow the rules are not welcomed. Kick them. They can go play other games with their regrets.
Is that path to the peak? Hasn't that rotated?
china has a different rotation
2nd clip is just a
Doin all that just to prize all your stage 2s (I prized 3 ralts and a dark energy yesterday)
it should be immediatly permaban with no appeal when its caught on camera,
Bring a bodycam to regionals? Viable strategy? I mean your opponent is consenting to their image being taken and there is this one photographer just taking pictures of people throughout the tournament and selling them later, no one minds and I don't think he's a Pokémon affiliate either...
no one will wait until you can review all the tape to check it, plus you'll be "safe" with that in mind, so maybe you'll be softer when watching your opponent's plays, so carrying a camera with you can have the opposite effect at the end of the day
@@ElMarto619 I was just thinking to intimidate people a bit, of course you need to watch your opponent, wont be helpful to find they were cheating retrospectively. But if they do, I can immeditely show video proof to a judge and there is no debate...
people won't call over judges because there might be uncertainty in whether it was actually something shady or you just are being paranoid or imagined it. You don't want to be the guy accusing everyone just because you're paranoid so you just let it slide. I know it sounds silly if you literally see blatant cheating with your own eyes, but even in those examples where it's obvious the cheater will deny and come up with a reasonable excuse to gaslight you and make you start questioning it yourself and whether you should bother bringing a judge into it.
Many Cheaters (the best ones at cheating at least) use tricks to distract their opponents, in both clips the cheaters put the cards wh they know the other player os looking away.
Bro it was Fanny and awaful at the same time !! Oh My GOD!!
I think the biggest thing is informing players what to look for with cheating, and making sure that as players you keep track of the board state. Also, major thing is be aware of is distraction tactics.
CUT AFTER YOUR OPPONENT SHUFFLES YOUR DECK. Stacking bad cards to the top of your opponents deck seems to be a pretty common cheat kn MTG. (Pretty sure that’s legal in pokemon.)
And 99% of players will not care if you call over a judge if one of you makes an actual mistake. If someone gets tilted about you calling a judge, that’s a bit sus.
Tbh, I don’t think pokemon has a major cheating problem. At least at more local comp events, if you’re at the top tables you’re likely going to have either judges eyes on you or a bunch of spectators if your game doesn’t end quickly.
At a case tournament back during Stellar Crown, my 4th round opponent was cheating. After round 3 a few players dropped out because the lcs wasn’t doing a top cut when there should have been. Once they dipped, the judge left too smh. I was running Hydrapple and my opponent had Zard with Pult and I run both Toedscruel the blocks cards being brought back from the discard pile to hand and Toedscruel Ex that protects my mons from effects of attacks done any mons that have a grass energy attached. I won match 1 and during match 2 and 3 he started not shuffling properly and moving cards to top of his deck and I was trying to find a judge to notify them. It luckily ended in a tie because I started taking a good while to do my turns to prevent the cheater from winning the round. I told the lcs about it but they did nothing about it and let it go. Haven’t went back there for any tourney since!
When opponent finishes shuffling you can take the opponent deck and shuffle yourself.
Guys whats your rank in arceus league?
Just play with long sleeves and hide extra boss and a extra prime catcher to win
its pathetic when you have to cheat to win in a game meant for 10 year olds lol
Dude even using white sleeves to make his cheatting hard to see on the mat
Paper is a format that will fade away in favor of digital in time
It's crazy to cheat at pokemon. Just build good decks and have fun 😂
that´s why magicians are banned from tcg tourneys, and you cant look at your deck (nor you opponents) while you are shuffling it, cause you can place cards on top and on bot to make the perfect draw to you or the worst hand to your opponent
Cheating in locals for cups and challenges is way higher then ppl even imagine so I can only think at a higher lever with bigger prizes like a regionals it happening alot and ppl just don't catch it as a professional dealer I see things that most ppl do not I've seen some crazy stuff in my home town
Back in 2016 we thought all the top players were cheating.
The 2nd clip. Reminds me of bandit Keith from yugioh when he has the 7 cards under his sleeve
Cheating on STREAM is crazy. Lmao.
I get money is involved but it’s a children’s card game at the end of the day. What’s bad too is SOMETIMES it can’t be proven if they get caught by their opponent.
I’ve seen a lot of shady nonsense since I’ve been playing. I agree with you though. Call a judge. That’s what they’re there for. Don’t be afraid. Especially if you feel like something is up.
There are so many local league cup cheaters.
Could we just pull up a gopro strapped to our chest?
cheating is cringe but doing it on camera is crazier lol. back in the day at yugioh tournies we'd have two refs with laptops typing up the games so youd never be able to do this. theyd catch the mystery card appear in the hand asap
A guy cheated like this in MTG and skewed the results so much that they got Summer Bloom banned
This is in regards to palming the perfect 7
Perma bans for cheaters. 💯
The amount of cheaters in ptcg that dont get caught is insanely high. Thats why so many people always cheat
Yea easy perma ban from the game. Malicious, and clearly if cheating on stream hes cheated many , many times. Ban for life.
Lance enters the chat
Perma ban 100%
I don't understand the first one
The dude is using chops to search energies and he drops a Supporter into his hand what don't you understand?
I am not English but I can still understand English quite well. Clearly I missed some part of the speech and in the end I did not understand
@@TheZuggernautThank you btw
I definitely vote for permaban
That is crazy !
they can use nfc technology to help track decks and all that, it would also be useful to weed out cards that were added after being registered
Lmao what
@boxkid759 lmao what dumbass it's already used at many casinos
Bye bye social credit score
imagine some off-screen players, insane!
Only reason why I like ptcgl 😭
People who cheat in tcg or online games are just pathetic losers, and they will have a special place in hell.
It’s just sad
I’ve seen people stack their deck and palm cards, but putting the perfect 7 on top of your deck is new to me 😂
How stupid do you actually have to be to cheat on stream?
I don't think cheating is as common because cheating on stream is likely representing a higher sample than cheating across the board. If you think about it like a normal distribution, the amount of players featured on stream represents around 1-5% of players playing in the tournament. Even if you have 2 matches per round, and 4 new players each round, that still is only 60 players over the course of 15 rounds of matches (assuming you streamed rounds 1 & 2), which in a tournament with 2000 players, would be around 3% (not counting top 8, which would push you to 3.4% if none had been featured before). So you are talking a very small slice of any tournament. The reason I bring that up is because if you think cheating is effective (which it almost certainly is), then for the players that do cheat, their normal distribution curve gets pushed significantly to the right, meaning that they'd show up more often on stream when compared to the general population. So the fact that you only see 1 every several regional/major, means that it is just not a common problem. Does it happen? Obviously. Is it a problem that everyone should be worried about? For the average player probably not. For players who are pushing for day 2s and top 8s, likely yes as there are likely to be more cheaters in your pool of players when compared to average players.
This why I personally don’t like when players move their “options” to the front/bottom of their deck while they’re prize checking or finding all their options. To me it just seems like a way of stacking.
So how do you distinguish them for later then?
It's still perfectly acceptable.
We all should open the perfect 7 every time.
60 card is too easy to brick. They are only righting a few wrongs.
This is why good card games don't have mana system, or an unfair prize system.
That being said, you gotta be dumb full of it to cheat on stream. Not worth getting caught
Ngl if you have a massive vendetta against bricking it might just be a matter of better deck building.
@Spixxxx can't deck build better if the Meta requires you to run 1-ofs or take the loss on MUs. I can't understand how pokemon tcg players can accept 60% start rate as acceptable.
This might be the worst take ive ever seen.
@@boxkid759anyone who played other card games will find a better hand fix system than PTCG. Can't fault people to right the game's wrongs. Should have everyone open the perfect 7, game is not broken, if everyone opens their best hand.
@Clear1 just run searchers idrk see your problem
Bro your getting ban for cheating on live stream 🤣 😂 second dude straight out the character from yugioh bandit Keith 😅😂😂
So Cringe...losing sucks but what satisfaction is there knowing you cheated to win 🤔 Instant Perma-Ban for me.
Smh
lame people
I’ve seen people stack their deck and palm cards, but putting the perfect 7 on top of your deck is new to me 😂
How stupid do you actually have to be to cheat on stream?