The words “forge fast expand” are burned into my brain from this time period, it was so easy to earlygame all-in toss that we used to just get a forge as the first building, often walling in the mainbase with it
that makes sense. Terran was always op and has become more so with each patch while the players of other races keep getting better. Terrans 14 years later still can't control a raven.
Wings of Liberty Protoss; 8 or 9 pylon 13 gate or forge - expand or else 15 gas 16 cybercore 18 gate/robo also, recall was a thing, but tied to mothership. 👌🏻
You could lift tanks on to the highground where there's no ramp near the middle of the map if I remember correctly, meaning you needed high-ground vision to attack them, and no way to use melee units on them. Wild times.
WhiteRa was my favorite special tactics protoss. And Idra was fun for his ragequits. And for toss opener i remember forge fast expand was popular against Zerg.
Yes, stalkers deal 10 damage per shot vs light units, and you are supposed to open 2 gate before expand if you want to hold attacks like that 3rax. Colossus did 2 attacks for 15 damage each, instead of 10, so yeah they were 50% better.
you dont need to play 2 gate expand to hold that. just build a robo instead of the twilight council. if you see no expansion chronoboost 1-2 immortals to defend and if you see a expansion build robo bay, chronoboost 2-3 collossus and just 2base allin with 2-3 range upgrade colossus + 5-6 gates
@@Max-9871 you won't get enough immortals in time to hold the 3 rax, you would need to build a lot of sentries then which completely defeats the purpose of expanding that fast
Man, I'd love for the WoL and HotS ladders to still be online. Not because I think their better than LotV, but because having options is good, and reliving the old ladders would be magical haha
100%. I wouldn't put them up 100% of the time because they'd die. However, if they were brought back for like 2 weeks ONCE a year, EVERYONE would flood to them for that 2 week
Hmm, I could've sworn that Warp in's used to be faster back in WoL (ignoring the solitary pylon warp in nerf in LotV), but looking back at patch notes it's all from the LotV beta balancing patches that added the lone pylon nerf to 16 seconds and briefly tried 2 second fast pylon warp in for "defense". I guess having 2 second warp in's felt so liberating that the change back to 5 seconds felt like a long time nerf instead of just resetting it back to where it was all along.
Some Nostalgia here. I joined a public game during the beta on a map named Bel'shir beach and it was IronmanSC testing his very first map with king of the hill games in public lobbies. I probably played 50+ games on his maps in king of the hill style. He later went on to make this map and submit it to teamliquid map contest and came 2nd I believe. Was kinda cool to see him go from his first map just messing around to actually getting a map on the ladder. Cool times.
for those that don't remember the way to play protoss early was to keep a sentry in your main and 2 at your nat this way when someone attacked you could just force field the ramp or narrow chock point and delay their attack for the time of the force field because at this time no one had a way to delete the sentry force field the sentry also as another ability the reduces all incoming range damage to friendly units in the field by 1 which would have been massive in dealing with the mass marine marauder in the first game you would play this to get into your tech normally robo against terrain as immortals wreck their armour and the colossus wrecked anything on the ground leaving you weak to area but stalkers just filled the rolled this was the wol protoss death ball high temp got added in you where got at unit control
when you mentioned blizzard-time i looked at my computers time running next to the timer on your game UI and yeah... the game UI timer runs WAY faster than an actual clock... its kinda crazy
The UI timer for some reason works off of game speed. Since multiplayer is set to the fastest game speed, everyone keeps pointing out the blizzard time.
Rule of thumb in WoL, you can't tech AND expand at the same time. If you're expanding you better have a lot of gateways. If you want to go blink or robo it's purely a 1 base build. Like everyone else I'm sad to not see an archon toilet. Maybe next time.
PvT I believe 1 gate expand was normal, 3 rax was difficult but on 4p maps or larger 2p maps you were fine. You usually cut probes at 20 to get nexus and 2nd gas before resuming.
I remember a time when toss got owned by muta all ins. The sentry was tge units with themost dps vs mutas. The base damage vs unarmoured was rediculously low.
@@TheSuperappelflap Well-microed stalkers stalkers are the only reliable defence protoss has in the early game against these 3rax pushes before higher tech comes on. I'm not talking about late game.
@@Telhias It was a better balanced game than the current version, Protoss could actually win tournaments. Don't know why youre balance whining about an obsolete 14 year old game here.
@@efegokselkisioglu8218 It was way slower with less bullshit everywhere. Which does sound way more fun, as the super fast pace of LotV means you cannot really play casualy, cause you just lose.
Give Immortals Hardened Shield back Give Colossi the ground burn from LOTV campaign Give us Reavers back Give us Taldarim Mothership Let protoss be busted for a little bit fuck it
Is there any explanation as to why I am in Masters league? My APM is around 30 my micro sucks, and I consistently get destroyed I did play AI up to very Hard or whatever, but AI and people play very different. Will it eventually put me in a league I can compete in? I am Arkenos Protoss player.
if it sthe original wol, void rays were very broken... delete entire base in about 6 seconds... you would be sosnciered ot play a very greedy style since... a larger army may exist already.. hmm
Stalkers attacks faster, but dealt more damage. Void rays had a gimmick where their weapons charge up as they focused on a single target. Immortals had hardened shields that hard countered siege tanks. Warp prisms had smaller pick up radius. Power fields did not need the nexus/warp gate for warp ins to be sped up. Colossus did not deal reduced damage against armored. Carriers had a longer leash radius, so you could micro them while they attacked. Tanks in siege mode dealt 60 damage per shot at one point. Ravens had seeker missiles, and point defense drones. Raven auto turrets dealt less damage, but had a longer lifespan. Ghosts could spam snipe. Battle cruisers couldn’t attack while moving nor did they have the jump ability. Reapers didn’t have health regen out of combat. Mules gathered 30 minerals per trip, not 25. Hydralisks didn’t have speed upgrades, Ultralisks had 600 hp, not 500, and had an attack specifically for buildings. Mutalisks didn’t have rapid health regen. Queens had transfuse that the balance council hates. Overlord did not individually morphed to transport units, it was a global upgrade. Infestor had the insta fungals and infested marines. Vipers and Swarmhosts were added in HotS and Lurkers and Ravagers were added in LotV.
Depends.. I rember doing like 52 barracks for early pressure... which forces 6 pool and early rushes being effective, depeddning on the size of hte map of course... you want to get your attacking troop to their base before a 1:30 also early reaper.. can scale quite well..
4 lings can get out super early back in the day, so... I remember, always sending a worker to scout... since 6 workers but this lets you plan out your eco better, and typically your only behind about 120 mins at most but you can havea significant advantage... hmm
SC2 kept getting worse with each expansion, and when the update came out to start with 12 workers I haven't played online since. WoL remaster? WoL classic ladder? :P
Chargelots Harstem. Chargelots! Charge not only makes them rush the enemy, but they deal a crap ton of bonus damage with the charge. Zealots alone could outtrade bio that wasn't well microed in WoL.
We got nerfed so hard we back to woL boys
"The Terran council has decided your fate."
"I am the council"
@@capmaksimus9053 look at me, I'm the council now
The words “forge fast expand” are burned into my brain from this time period, it was so easy to earlygame all-in toss that we used to just get a forge as the first building, often walling in the mainbase with it
Are you sure it's not a timing attack?
Every time someone moved out it was a timing attack until like legacy of the void lol.
that makes sense. Terran was always op and has become more so with each patch while the players of other races keep getting better. Terrans 14 years later still can't control a raven.
All remember of WoL Toss is that you charged up the voids on rocks and then went to town.
I was really really hoping Harstem would use the Mothership and its Vortex ability. That ability was so busted
Yeah, late game archon toilet build.
Wings of Liberty Protoss;
8 or 9 pylon
13 gate or forge
- expand
or else
15 gas
16 cybercore
18 gate/robo
also, recall was a thing, but tied to mothership. 👌🏻
Have to argue with you on the intro Captain, the map that best represents this period is fucking Xel'naga Caverns.
Caverns was maybe the best map of that period, but the most meorable for me remains Steps of War. WTF was the rush distance there
Steppes of war as protoss vs zerg, just conceded. Its going to be 6pool.
Metalopolis
This map is still in my brain, every corner, every pixel. ^^
You could lift tanks on to the highground where there's no ramp near the middle of the map if I remember correctly, meaning you needed high-ground vision to attack them, and no way to use melee units on them. Wild times.
you should do this again but do an archon toilet
WhiteRa was my favorite special tactics protoss. And Idra was fun for his ragequits. And for toss opener i remember forge fast expand was popular against Zerg.
Yes, stalkers deal 10 damage per shot vs light units, and you are supposed to open 2 gate before expand if you want to hold attacks like that 3rax.
Colossus did 2 attacks for 15 damage each, instead of 10, so yeah they were 50% better.
*against non-light
@@Floxxoror no, it's 10 base damage +4 Vs armoured, so they do 10 damage to light units like marines
you dont need to play 2 gate expand to hold that. just build a robo instead of the twilight council. if you see no expansion chronoboost 1-2 immortals to defend and if you see a expansion build robo bay, chronoboost 2-3 collossus and just 2base allin with 2-3 range upgrade colossus + 5-6 gates
@@Max-9871 you won't get enough immortals in time to hold the 3 rax, you would need to build a lot of sentries then which completely defeats the purpose of expanding that fast
In HotS PvP used to be mass-colossi against mass-colossi because of that if I remember correctly. Only reason it stopped was the distruptor.
The chat is a perfectly valid way to scout
Man, I'd love for the WoL and HotS ladders to still be online. Not because I think their better than LotV, but because having options is good, and reliving the old ladders would be magical haha
100%. I wouldn't put them up 100% of the time because they'd die. However, if they were brought back for like 2 weeks ONCE a year, EVERYONE would flood to them for that 2 week
I would love to play SC2 with this temp instead of current one
Hmm, I could've sworn that Warp in's used to be faster back in WoL (ignoring the solitary pylon warp in nerf in LotV), but looking back at patch notes it's all from the LotV beta balancing patches that added the lone pylon nerf to 16 seconds and briefly tried 2 second fast pylon warp in for "defense". I guess having 2 second warp in's felt so liberating that the change back to 5 seconds felt like a long time nerf instead of just resetting it back to where it was all along.
NOTHING will top Sc2 meta before BL infestor. quite literally EVERYTHING before that was the most perfect gaming experience ever
i miss when chrono was a 24/7 thing, and not a 20 second duration
we need mothership core too.
and archon toilet mothership
Some Nostalgia here. I joined a public game during the beta on a map named Bel'shir beach and it was IronmanSC testing his very first map with king of the hill games in public lobbies. I probably played 50+ games on his maps in king of the hill style. He later went on to make this map and submit it to teamliquid map contest and came 2nd I believe. Was kinda cool to see him go from his first map just messing around to actually getting a map on the ladder. Cool times.
for those that don't remember the way to play protoss early was to keep a sentry in your main and 2 at your nat
this way when someone attacked you could just force field the ramp or narrow chock point and delay their attack for the time of the force field because at this time no one had a way to delete the sentry force field
the sentry also as another ability the reduces all incoming range damage to friendly units in the field by 1 which would have been massive in dealing with the mass marine marauder in the first game
you would play this to get into your tech
normally robo against terrain as immortals wreck their armour and the colossus wrecked anything on the ground leaving you weak to area but stalkers just filled the rolled
this was the wol protoss death ball
high temp got added in you where got at unit control
without a seconds hesitation I think Metalopolis when asked to name a wings map.
when you mentioned blizzard-time i looked at my computers time running next to the timer on your game UI and yeah... the game UI timer runs WAY faster than an actual clock... its kinda crazy
The UI timer for some reason works off of game speed. Since multiplayer is set to the fastest game speed, everyone keeps pointing out the blizzard time.
Yeah from memory it was something like 1 second was 0.83 seconds or something like that.
You can place pylon on the low ground and warp units on the high ground if I'm not mistaken
I think it would be on WoL last patch before HotS came out, becqause I'm pretty sure that got patched out pretty quickly.
But where is the archon toilet? 😭
8:55 there used to be 24 workers per base, so the expansions were later
Edit: or 22? There were 2 patches more at least
Back in the day one base openers were they way to go. 3Gate robo then expand to natural or 4gate push then expand
from what i remember back in the day expanding, like at all, was considered a death sentence in pvp.
Yeah, P's early game defense really sucked in WOL.
its refreshing to see the original state of the game but i feel like its also missing a lot of things that madde sc2 great in lotv
I didn't play too much, but I remember the common opening being 4-gate all in. :3
Rule of thumb in WoL, you can't tech AND expand at the same time. If you're expanding you better have a lot of gateways. If you want to go blink or robo it's purely a 1 base build. Like everyone else I'm sad to not see an archon toilet. Maybe next time.
Awesome, Keep doing more WOL protoss
I had flashbacks when you said "Ohana" lol
PvT I believe 1 gate expand was normal, 3 rax was difficult but on 4p maps or larger 2p maps you were fine. You usually cut probes at 20 to get nexus and 2nd gas before resuming.
Wol feedback is so satisfying!
Stalkers need 5 shots to kill a marine now? So they made stalker useless at the only job it could do somewhat competently?
I remember a time when toss got owned by muta all ins. The sentry was tge units with themost dps vs mutas. The base damage vs unarmoured was rediculously low.
Stalkers are not the counter to marines, charge zealots and colossus and storm are.
@@TheSuperappelflap The fact that you need upgrades and higher tier units to counter the most basic Terran unit speaks volumes.
@@TheSuperappelflap Well-microed stalkers stalkers are the only reliable defence protoss has in the early game against these 3rax pushes before higher tech comes on. I'm not talking about late game.
@@Telhias It was a better balanced game than the current version, Protoss could actually win tournaments. Don't know why youre balance whining about an obsolete 14 year old game here.
Brings back the Apollo guides vibes ❤️
GiantGrantGames had a good video summarizing protoss, randomly dying to early pushes no matter what the year.
going 1 gate expand is like the greediest possible opener u could do in WoL
Damn, this looks way more fun than today's meta
Wings was a hell of a time. Almost everyone was cheesing each other and it'd be rare for the game to get to 15 minutes.
@@TheStargov hots really seems to have messed the whole dynamic up
@@efegokselkisioglu8218 It was way slower with less bullshit everywhere. Which does sound way more fun, as the super fast pace of LotV means you cannot really play casualy, cause you just lose.
Give Immortals Hardened Shield back
Give Colossi the ground burn from LOTV campaign
Give us Reavers back
Give us Taldarim Mothership
Let protoss be busted for a little bit fuck it
Would still lose to vipers lol
@@chloesmith4065 Fucking vipers man
but honestly i would not mind if the other stuff where actually satisfying to use
@@chloesmith4065 at least not without showing a bit of a fight
Miss the WoL days. What to do to be able to play WoL edition?
Is there any explanation as to why I am in Masters league? My APM is around 30 my micro sucks, and I consistently get destroyed I did play AI up to very Hard or whatever, but AI and people play very different. Will it eventually put me in a league I can compete in? I am Arkenos Protoss player.
i think the maps are bugged the minerals lines should be 24 or 28 on minerals from my hazy memory
마지막 확장팩 베타 참 길게 하네 ㅋ
yeah, 1/1/1 all in the protoss again
Back when Protoss was a good race.. good days
back when Immortal was actually immortal.
daybreak was like playing street fighter .
Super cool pic on the vid 👌🔥
if it sthe original wol, void rays were very broken... delete entire base in about 6 seconds... you would be sosnciered ot play a very greedy style since... a larger army may exist already.. hmm
What did LotV have that WoL did not have?
Can someone reresh my memory?
u start with 20 probes
Adept, Oracle, Disruptor and the shield battery are missing in WoL.
@@Ten_Tacles Oracle and Tempest are from Heart of the Swarm, to be specific
Stalkers attacks faster, but dealt more damage. Void rays had a gimmick where their weapons charge up as they focused on a single target. Immortals had hardened shields that hard countered siege tanks. Warp prisms had smaller pick up radius. Power fields did not need the nexus/warp gate for warp ins to be sped up. Colossus did not deal reduced damage against armored. Carriers had a longer leash radius, so you could micro them while they attacked.
Tanks in siege mode dealt 60 damage per shot at one point. Ravens had seeker missiles, and point defense drones. Raven auto turrets dealt less damage, but had a longer lifespan. Ghosts could spam snipe. Battle cruisers couldn’t attack while moving nor did they have the jump ability. Reapers didn’t have health regen out of combat. Mules gathered 30 minerals per trip, not 25.
Hydralisks didn’t have speed upgrades, Ultralisks had 600 hp, not 500, and had an attack specifically for buildings. Mutalisks didn’t have rapid health regen. Queens had transfuse that the balance council hates. Overlord did not individually morphed to transport units, it was a global upgrade. Infestor had the insta fungals and infested marines. Vipers and Swarmhosts were added in HotS and Lurkers and Ravagers were added in LotV.
far better times.
no mothership core in this patch?
Depends.. I rember doing like 52 barracks for early pressure... which forces 6 pool and early rushes being effective, depeddning on the size of hte map of course... you want to get your attacking troop to their base before a 1:30 also early reaper.. can scale quite well..
ah yeah, the good old 52 barracks pressure...
No archon toilet???
And for some reason nobody believes me.
Scrap station lol
4 lings can get out super early back in the day, so... I remember, always sending a worker to scout... since 6 workers but this lets you plan out your eco better, and typically your only behind about 120 mins at most but you can havea significant advantage... hmm
SC2 kept getting worse with each expansion, and when the update came out to start with 12 workers I haven't played online since.
WoL remaster? WoL classic ladder? :P
👍aight
WOL AND HOTS were better balance then LOTV.
Make wings of liberty great again
First!
Chargelots Harstem. Chargelots! Charge not only makes them rush the enemy, but they deal a crap ton of bonus damage with the charge. Zealots alone could outtrade bio that wasn't well microed in WoL.
this map is 10000x better than anything that has come out
You got 200/200 as toss in WOL and didnt have archons + mothership? smh