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Thanks for the video. I have some crazy ideas for spot welding aluminum. Do not own a weld nor have I used one, just watch lots of youtube and welders in the work place, and I ask lots of question. 1. Sharpen tungsten. 2. Frequency to max. 3. AC balance to start 75% cleaning. 4. Find the amps need to blow a small home thru the pieces. 5. Program welder up ramp 1 sec to set amps when you get blow thru lift torch add filler wire that is bigger then the hole you made then down ramp, increase gas so you will get some gas on the back of the weld for some shield, this could be pointless but this is an experiment. This idea came to me when I remembered my Uncle using a 6010 rod and punching thru the metal then pulling out and filling the hole up. Was wondering since you get blow thru on a tig touch could you use it as a cutter on thin metal, kind of like a plasma torch? I get crazy ideas, had lots working in the Industrial world, and 80 90% worked with more experimentation. Get a good start point then go from there. Retired now so have to live vicariously thru TH-cam.
I respect Justin even more because despite knowing a ton, he still isn’t so ego filled that he isn’t open to potentially learning new things. He’s truly an expert in his field.
Well when you put it that way... That makes a LOT of sense. Also explains why I struggle at times to tack my aluminum pieces together. I've learned a lot. Now about those pink gloves....
haha, yeah, that feller Dusty up in Canada likes them Pink gloves too... I bought some of the tan and black ones, they are a great product... and Justin is a dealer. for them.......
On stell if when you tear the tabs apart it should tear about a 6mm hole out of the back side of the second weldbtab to pass a I Car welding test in the Auto body industry. We do millions of plug welds every year in our industry. Hope this may give some good share knowledge. Thanks for all you do for us.
hey Justin, Recently ,a very very long time friend, since 1963, was rebuilding a 1960's era Land Rover, can you say new Aluminum Quarter Panel ent from the UK to the US, way up in West Virginia, I am in Florida ......anyway, there were places that were impossible to get to while putting the new Quarter Panel in.... I suggested to him that he do MIGMAG [GMAW for the AWS crowd] spot welding.... I had never done this with aluminum, carbon steel yes...long story short, it works, but you have to be spot on with the volts, wire speed, and time, your ground/work lead is super critical too..... and of course, you need to modify your contact tips to be shorter if you do not have the proper nozzle ... he did not, as he is using a 1970's era Linde CV machine, [we don't need no stinking inverters] in the past, he had drilled a Gazillion holes and Rosetted them, and the blending was very tedious, my Pal love beating himself up on these old Land Rovers and Jags....you know the type... anyway, I did the initial testing, and we shot photos back and forth, we used 4043 and of course 100% Argon...... Hope this may help some of your viewers.....Paulie Brown in Orlando
I'm glad you tried it with filler as well, as that was my next question. I'd assume another issue with this technique is that the shielding gas can't get between the two layers. That means the lower layer will be instantly oxidizing as you're trying to weld it, leading to that crap weld quality and no bond strength. Oh... I just got to the end of the video where you say this. You covered it better including discussing the arc breaking through the oxide layer though. Good stuff!
I spot weld aluminum with my - spot welder. Obviously I can’t do butt welds, but otherwise it works well. The problem with spot welding aluminum is the conductivity. Both when TIG welding and spot welding, the conductivity prevents the heat from staying concentrated. Because of that, you need more heat than with steel. That means that the amount of heat can be so much that the low melting temperature results in melt through. It’s a fine line between success and failure. Steel is far more forgiving. Additionally for TIG is that many aluminum alloys contain magnesium. That makes welding it more difficult. Aluminum welding alloys help to counteract that. And yes, the oxide layer is a major problem for TIG welding, though it actually helps when using a spot welder.
@@samehdarawshi3537 I thought I responded to this, but my post isn’t here. Ok. I use the Miller 240 2.5Kw model with a floor stand that I’ve made major modifications to. There’s no point to scuffing the surface of aluminum as it takes less than a second for a new oxide layer to form when oxygen is present. It might take a lot less time if it’s warm. Additionally, spot welding depends on resistance to heat the metal for it to melt together. Aluminum has a fairly low resistance, so you need a high wattage for possibly a shorter time. You have to run tests as different aluminum alloys will act differently. Remember that copper is around 96% conductive while aluminum is around 60%. Various steels are, at best 27%.
I wonder if some kind of flux cream could be applied between the two pieces that would dissolve the oxide, and protect the base aluminum would make this possible.
That right there was a good explanation for the aluminum to describe the oxide layer. It was a good experiment too with aluminum that's the best in depth exercise I have seen.....
@WelldCoach it's always great someone like you Justin that'll text back to someone and respond back to someone that's why I have all the respect in the world for you and I learned very well from watching everything you've done and you've described!
what would be interesting to test is to use a backing plate so the weld doesn't fall through, which enables you to have a pool where both sheets mix. however that only works if the oxide floats up to the surface for the arc to deal with, otherwise it gets trapped and causes cracking. also i think 5 series is the only one that can be autogenous welded.
Hey Justin thanks for the video. I have tried to do this as well in the past and it just simply does not work. Sometimes you get a drippy spike of aluminum that falls through both plates. I’ve also tried “plug welds” but the aluminum from the top plate always melts away extremely fast. The surface tension of aluminum is weird when it melts
My first project after very little practice with my primeweld was trying to make a box in aluminum. Very small. I tried and tried to tack it the autogenous(spelling) way. And failed miserably. Lol now I know why! I knew of course about the oxide but wasn't thinking that way for tacking. Some booth at PRI was pushing them pink gloves hard lol.
Justin I was already thinking about how you did not clean the coupons to remove the oxide before trying the spot weld. - had you done so might the spot weld have worked? stainless steel bush of both surfaces and some solvent clean with something like acetone.
Still watching, but I can say that I used spot mode on aluminum and it works. The time needed is about 200 ms and the current should be 2-2.5 times higher than normal.
Thanks for the video. Every interesting. Do not weld do not have a machine. Was wondering what if you turned the ac balance very high to cleaning and then did a spot weld? If you have lots of ac cleaning maybe it will go thru both pieces. Love experimentation.
I figure the pink gloves are to reduce the likelihood of someone else walking off with them, since too many guys would be too insecure to wear pink gloves. And/or it's part of breast cancer awareness.
Hi Justin interesting topic I too was looking forward to the result and now I know it confirmed what I though would happen but I have like you never tried it now I won't waste material and gas trying it. I do like all these videos.
I'd definitely like to know the story behind the gloves and love the experiment, but wouldn't it work a little better after first drilling a small hole in the top coupon? I know that's not technically a spot weld, but...
would it be fair to say that the argon was only accessible from the top surface and the "airspace" between sheets added to the contamination/oxidation?
Might have some success if you brush the oxide layer off and set the machine on dcen instead of AC. Alot of old heads like to weld aluminum on DC for work holding equipment.
Could you drill a small hole in the top layer and use filler to fuse bottom layer and inner edge of the hole in the top layer. ? Or maybe that defeat the purpose of hands free feature of spotwelding
Would like to hear the story on the pink gloves. When I was in the shop, I painted a lot of my hand tools pink. Because nobody is going to accidentally abscond with a pink ratchet.
Has anyone asked about the pink gloves yet??? Hmmm. I think inquiring minds would like to know about the pink gloves. Lol. Please tell us about the pink gloves…. Love all the videos thank you for all the content you provide us with.
I wonder if it would work if you gave it a quick hit with an abrasive where the contact is going to be, and put a dab of flux paste in there? Might be worth trying, just for the novelty of seeing if it is possible. But at that level of effort, you're probably better off punching a hole in one side and joining them with a plug weld.
Could part of the problem be the oxide layer? How can the AC balance perform the cleaning action between the two pieces? I think this has something to do with it since the oxide layer takes 3 times the temp to melt.
I know the answer to this problem: Put 2 coupons of steel either side of the aluminium, and spot weld like it's the steel you are spotting, the steel sandwich forces the aluminum to meld into each other rather than the lower aluminium coupon flowing away from the top one Old timer spot welders know this trick.
Dammit. That’s why my lap joints wouldn’t work. I’m trying to make a custom aluminum hood. I was quoted $8k for the labor and figured, $8k will get me a lot of learning something cool and yields “I did that” in the end.
The pink gloves: Is it so dudes won't steal them? I had fellow techs that bought pink tools to prevent fellow techs from constantly walking away with them.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
Book a one on one class with your own personal welding instructor
weldcoach.com/
Check Out Weld Metals Online materials, consumables and MORE!
weldmetalsonline.com/
Thanks for the video.
I have some crazy ideas for spot welding aluminum. Do not own a weld nor have I used one, just watch lots of youtube and welders in the work place, and I ask lots of question.
1. Sharpen tungsten.
2. Frequency to max.
3. AC balance to start 75% cleaning.
4. Find the amps need to blow a small home thru the pieces.
5. Program welder up ramp 1 sec to set amps when you get blow thru lift torch add filler wire that is bigger then the hole you made then down ramp, increase gas so you will get some gas on the back of the weld for some shield, this could be pointless but this is an experiment.
This idea came to me when I remembered my Uncle using a 6010 rod and punching thru the metal then pulling out and filling the hole up.
Was wondering since you get blow thru on a tig touch could you use it as a cutter on thin metal, kind of like a plasma torch?
I get crazy ideas, had lots working in the Industrial world, and 80 90% worked with more experimentation. Get a good start point then go from there.
Retired now so have to live vicariously thru TH-cam.
I respect Justin even more because despite knowing a ton, he still isn’t so ego filled that he isn’t open to potentially learning new things. He’s truly an expert in his field.
you got that right...
I wanna drink beer with him
I really loved the '3-Arm' technique in the beginning......made my day seeing that....
Well when you put it that way... That makes a LOT of sense. Also explains why I struggle at times to tack my aluminum pieces together. I've learned a lot. Now about those pink gloves....
haha, yeah, that feller Dusty up in Canada likes them Pink gloves too...
I bought some of the tan and black ones, they are a great product...
and Justin is a dealer. for them.......
Nothing to add just an obligatory algorithm boost for the channel 👍👍
Tell us about the pink gloves.
I would like to know the story too!
They were cheap, inexpensive, on offer, freebies, or the like?
looking forward to each video!
On stell if when you tear the tabs apart it should tear about a 6mm hole out of the back side of the second weldbtab to pass a I Car welding test in the Auto body industry. We do millions of plug welds every year in our industry. Hope this may give some good share knowledge. Thanks for all you do for us.
hey Justin,
Recently ,a very very long time friend, since 1963, was rebuilding a 1960's era Land Rover,
can you say new Aluminum Quarter Panel ent from the UK to the US, way up in West Virginia, I am in Florida
......anyway, there were places that were impossible to get to while putting the new Quarter Panel in....
I suggested to him that he do MIGMAG [GMAW for the AWS crowd] spot welding....
I had never done this with aluminum, carbon steel yes...long story short, it works,
but you have to be spot on with the volts, wire speed, and time, your ground/work lead is super critical too.....
and of course, you need to modify your contact tips to be shorter if you do not have the proper nozzle ...
he did not, as he is using a 1970's era Linde CV machine, [we don't need no stinking inverters]
in the past, he had drilled a Gazillion holes and Rosetted them, and the blending was very tedious,
my Pal love beating himself up on these old Land Rovers and Jags....you know the type...
anyway, I did the initial testing, and we shot photos back and forth, we used 4043 and of course
100% Argon......
Hope this may help some of your viewers.....Paulie Brown in Orlando
I'm glad you tried it with filler as well, as that was my next question. I'd assume another issue with this technique is that the shielding gas can't get between the two layers. That means the lower layer will be instantly oxidizing as you're trying to weld it, leading to that crap weld quality and no bond strength. Oh... I just got to the end of the video where you say this. You covered it better including discussing the arc breaking through the oxide layer though. Good stuff!
Respect for trying Justin 👍🏽
It showed exactly what i was thinking it would. Great test...
I really appreciate these lessons. Thank you Justin!
I did guess this is why before you stared. So thanks for your previous teachings. Something has sunk in.
Would drilling an 8mm hole in the top piece help? Then you're just having to break up the oxide layer on the bottom piece
Thank you for sharing your talents and skills.
What if you put flux between the two aluminum plates to deal with the oxidation?
Great video! Thanks for sharing. I love working with aluminum.
So when are you releasing the video explaining the pink gloves
I spot weld aluminum with my - spot welder. Obviously I can’t do butt welds, but otherwise it works well. The problem with spot welding aluminum is the conductivity. Both when TIG welding and spot welding, the conductivity prevents the heat from staying concentrated. Because of that, you need more heat than with steel. That means that the amount of heat can be so much that the low melting temperature results in melt through. It’s a fine line between success and failure. Steel is far more forgiving. Additionally for TIG is that many aluminum alloys contain magnesium. That makes welding it more difficult. Aluminum welding alloys help to counteract that. And yes, the oxide layer is a major problem for TIG welding, though it actually helps when using a spot welder.
can you specify which spot welder you use? oxide layer should not! be scuffed?! heared the opposite but i am a beginner gathering information. thanks
@@samehdarawshi3537 the Miller 2.5k 240 volt.
@@samehdarawshi3537 I thought I responded to this, but my post isn’t here. Ok. I use the Miller 240 2.5Kw model with a floor stand that I’ve made major modifications to. There’s no point to scuffing the surface of aluminum as it takes less than a second for a new oxide layer to form when oxygen is present. It might take a lot less time if it’s warm. Additionally, spot welding depends on resistance to heat the metal for it to melt together. Aluminum has a fairly low resistance, so you need a high wattage for possibly a shorter time. You have to run tests as different aluminum alloys will act differently. Remember that copper is around 96% conductive while aluminum is around 60%. Various steels are, at best 27%.
I wonder if some kind of flux cream could be applied between the two pieces that would dissolve the oxide, and protect the base aluminum would make this possible.
That right there was a good explanation for the aluminum to describe the oxide layer. It was a good experiment too with aluminum that's the best in depth exercise I have seen.....
@WelldCoach it's always great someone like you Justin that'll text back to someone and respond back to someone that's why I have all the respect in the world for you and I learned very well from watching everything you've done and you've described!
what would be interesting to test is to use a backing plate so the weld doesn't fall through, which enables you to have a pool where both sheets mix. however that only works if the oxide floats up to the surface for the arc to deal with, otherwise it gets trapped and causes cracking.
also i think 5 series is the only one that can be autogenous welded.
Would like to see other 8nstructional videos inregards to stick and MIG welding with both 110 and 220 and actual spot welders
Hey Justin thanks for the video. I have tried to do this as well in the past and it just simply does not work. Sometimes you get a drippy spike of aluminum that falls through both plates. I’ve also tried “plug welds” but the aluminum from the top plate always melts away extremely fast. The surface tension of aluminum is weird when it melts
Very cool. For fun you could also run some tests with various alloys. 2xxx, 5xxx, 7xxx?
This was very interesting, best explanation I've heard.
My first project after very little practice with my primeweld was trying to make a box in aluminum. Very small. I tried and tried to tack it the autogenous(spelling) way. And failed miserably. Lol now I know why! I knew of course about the oxide but wasn't thinking that way for tacking.
Some booth at PRI was pushing them pink gloves hard lol.
Nice, you think it would change anything if you steelbrushed the surfaces and quickly tried again?
4:15 as John Candy and Joe Flaherty from SCTV would say,
'That Blowed Up Real Good'
Id assume that the oxide in between the pieces prevents them from melting together.
Justin
I was already thinking about how you did not clean the coupons to remove the oxide before trying the spot weld. - had you done so might the spot weld have worked? stainless steel bush of both surfaces and some solvent clean with something like acetone.
Hey Justin, great effort.
Awesome. Is it possible to weld beer can thick size aluminum doing something with polarity?
Still watching, but I can say that I used spot mode on aluminum and it works. The time needed is about 200 ms and the current should be 2-2.5 times higher than normal.
I love the trial and error and learn by doing!
hi! can you made an hole on aluminium top plate before spot weld it? thnks
That's a plug weld AKA rosette, needs filler, otherwise you're still just trying to fusion weld something that won't.
Thanks for the video.
Every interesting. Do not weld do not have a machine. Was wondering what if you turned the ac balance very high to cleaning and then did a spot weld? If you have lots of ac cleaning maybe it will go thru both pieces. Love experimentation.
I figure the pink gloves are to reduce the likelihood of someone else walking off with them, since too many guys would be too insecure to wear pink gloves. And/or it's part of breast cancer awareness.
Hi Justin interesting topic I too was looking forward to the result and now I know it confirmed what I though would happen but I have like you never tried it now I won't waste material and gas trying it. I do like all these videos.
What table are you using in that video?? I like it
Are the Defiant Metal Pink Gloves the autographed Larry Flynt models?????
What is the copper on your table used for?
Wonder if sanding or wiping in Naptha first would change those results 🤔
Love it! You're the man Justin
It is all in the oxide layer.
Said before the end
I do it quite often. Taper off your heat slowly...like 2-3 seconds
I'd definitely like to know the story behind the gloves and love the experiment, but wouldn't it work a little better after first drilling a small hole in the top coupon? I know that's not technically a spot weld, but...
would it be fair to say that the argon was only accessible from the top surface and the "airspace" between sheets added to the contamination/oxidation?
Now that was worth watching....very interesting. 👍
Might have some success if you brush the oxide layer off and set the machine on dcen instead of AC. Alot of old heads like to weld aluminum on DC for work holding equipment.
Could you drill a small hole in the top layer and use filler to fuse bottom layer and inner edge of the hole in the top layer. ? Or maybe that defeat the purpose of hands free feature of spotwelding
Do they make spot welders for aluminum
Would like to hear the story on the pink gloves. When I was in the shop, I painted a lot of my hand tools pink. Because nobody is going to accidentally abscond with a pink ratchet.
No shielding gas on the inside of the weld?
Can you use TIG for tin and 6mm steel?
Has anyone asked about the pink gloves yet??? Hmmm. I think inquiring minds would like to know about the pink gloves.
Lol. Please tell us about the pink gloves…. Love all the videos thank you for all the content you provide us with.
Couldn't rosette welds work in place of spot welding aluminum in this case?
If you didn't say it , I was going to... remove the oxide.
I figured it out at the start lol
Good video, thanks!
What if you drilled a small hole in the top sheet
I wonder if it would work if you gave it a quick hit with an abrasive where the contact is going to be, and put a dab of flux paste in there?
Might be worth trying, just for the novelty of seeing if it is possible. But at that level of effort, you're probably better off punching a hole in one side and joining them with a plug weld.
Could part of the problem be the oxide layer? How can the AC balance perform the cleaning action between the two pieces? I think this has something to do with it since the oxide layer takes 3 times the temp to melt.
Can you tell I typed my comment before the video was over. Lol
I know the answer to this problem:
Put 2 coupons of steel either side of the aluminium, and spot weld like it's the steel you are spotting, the steel sandwich forces the aluminum to meld into each other rather than the lower aluminium coupon flowing away from the top one
Old timer spot welders know this trick.
Thanks Justin, It's been awhile, must be a busy bee . :)
Dammit. That’s why my lap joints wouldn’t work. I’m trying to make a custom aluminum hood. I was quoted $8k for the labor and figured, $8k will get me a lot of learning something cool and yields “I did that” in the end.
The pink gloves got me curious. Pray tell.
Hell yeah your back 🔥🤘🔥🤘👍🤘
Hey, Justin brush some acid flux between the two aluminum sheets where the spot weld will be humor me do it
Your '3-Arm' Technique was the 'Bomb'....go grab a cold one on me....Paulie
You could probably file off the oxide layer from all the contact points, it might work better but I'm pretty sure it won't .
the oxide layer reforms in microseconds
Thanks for the proof 😄
I must learn the real reason for the pink gloves now... 😆
Instead of burning through as is ordinary, why not try drilling a 1/8" or thereabouts hole through the top sheet, then make a small plug weld?
The pink gloves: Is it so dudes won't steal them? I had fellow techs that bought pink tools to prevent fellow techs from constantly walking away with them.
Good stuff.
so i assume plug welding could work.. i guess..
first thing i thought was "oxide layer"
Try squishing a flattened piece of flux rod between the sheets, see if that works????
Awesome comment! 😊
Or make a Triple skip Sign Wave. 😉
Arn't you suppose to clean the Aluminum and heat it up somewhat before you doing any going of the metals😮
Even if it's true it doesn't help when all you want is to tack something together quickly, or spot weld typically a large thin assembly.
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