It would be interesting to compare this and its oscillator/filter with the actual hardware. Is it possible that this offering is closer to emulating the hardware, that the hardware actually has a more "plastic sound" in its own right? Is it possible that the other VSTs have their own "character" that might sound "richer" or enhanced in some way? I doubt it, but it would be fun to see the comparison if anyone could get their hands on the hardware and do it. LOL
Hey there. Thanks for an honest review! But context is everything so please allow us to provide some: The CS01 was a lo-fi sounding, toy-resembling, synth made with cheap components. It sounded gritty and quirky -- but it was NOT a bass monster! It's exactly that plasticky/cheap/lo-fi sound you're talking about that makes the CS01 unique. It brings a totally different color. And that's what we wanted to emulate and expand upon with BA-1. In a head to head test with a good SH-101 emulation there's no doubt the SH-101 has a bigger and richer bass response. That's the case if you compare the hardware. And the software. As for the Hahaha plugin: Respectfully, it sounds like that plugin might be using standard VA oscillators and filters -- because the real CS01 did not have that much low end. This was part of its quirk. We're not saying you're wrong to call it plasticky or not like it. But just that our goal was never to make a synth that would beat the SH-101 on having the heaviest bass response. (If so, we'd have done something entirely different :)
Guys, thanks for reaching out to me personally, this is great! As for the design of the original, I have to tell you, that listening to some hardware CS01 stuff on YT gave me different feeling than your plugin - and obviously don't mean the speaker thing, I mean line out like in this vid: th-cam.com/video/VSyWnibo6K8/w-d-xo.html I'd like to learn more aboit your oscillator and filter design. What you did there sounds very clean and superstable - just very digital (again - not mentioning the speaker thing).l, like a pure math, simplest elements. That's the point of my critics. Also, many of your presets seem quite "large", "epic" in design, using lots of effects, not quite like plasticky chiptune style. The third thing id that I compared the sound of three digital products, where 101 was an addition. I designed two instances of it same way as BA-1, squuare plus saw, nothing is octave down on 101, quite fair comparison of oscs and filters. It's great to have this conversation and show the people, that we can discuss things competently and in a friendly atmosphere :) That's the way to do it! I love your Taip by the way and I'm always waiting for your further releases!
I did extensive 1:1 comparisons during the beta phase of the plugin with my real CS01 Mk1 and I think the basic sound is definitely very close. The CS01 has a DCO that never really sounds „warm“ or „analog“, but is very stable and rather thin sounding. It’s not a „bass monster“ in that regard, apart from some filter sweetspots with activated resonance. The plugin captures this core sound very nicely and adds a lot of things the real CS01 could never do. Both the original and the plugin sound completely different than my SH-101 (which also goes for most of the 101 plugins, by the way), so I personally would want both in my setup.
@@FoliaSound I think the problem is that it’s too good (way too many functions) to be a truthful CS01 emulation and it’s not good enough, especially for the money, to compete with the “big boys”. By the way, Alex Ball did a nice demo with a real CS01.
Forgive my opinion Tal is an emulation of the Roland sh101, not a Yamaha. If we have to be honest, the cs 101 certainly doesn't shine with its plastic sound, in fact it's a synthesiser that is usually used to make indie or lo-fi music. If you try to make a house base like it, you obviously won't like it. The sh101 on the other hand was a bass machine that was widely used in house music. We can say that you don't like it, but maybe it would be good to value the synthesiser for its strengths, showing its weaknesses is like saying that monophonic sucks because it doesn't have polyphony
I know it, my main comparoson was CS01 vs BA-1. SH-101 is a synth of similar age and character, that's why I included it additionally in the test. That's it.
@@FoliaSound The CS01-II (the black one) was a revised version of the original Yamaha CS01, with a different VCF section with a 24 dB/oct LP filter and a variable setting for the resonance. The mk1 had a 12 db/oct filter which gives a totally different response in the bass. So even trying the other plugin you proposed doesn't make much sense
@@cinemalulli , why? As I didn't know, which version Baby Audio tried to emulate, I tried them both. I believe, that Baby Audio's take was on V2, as the filter is definitely closer in sound here. What's my mistake here? What doesn't make sense here? Plus: how does the lowpass slope affect the low end, when it's open? I found both V1 and V2 of free Hahaha CS01 having rounder, better designed bottom end, while BA-1 sounds like a brute, purely mathematical, flat osc+filter. Again: what doesn't fit in here? What's your logic, when saying my comparison makes no sense? I'm just comparing digital products, stating that one of them sounds a bit less good. That's it.
@@trollingisasport you think Arturias soft synths sounds plastic ?? I don’t think so to be honest . They to me are super good at getting that analogue sound and feel to thier synths . But of course it’s a matter of taste (-,
Poor review. BA-1 is not a great bass synth but for many other types of sounds it is very, very good. e.g. See how well TAL-101 does with an FM bass patch. BA-1's filter is perfectly serviceable, even though it exhibits some of the limitations of a ladder filter. The oscillators are amazing and the synth is capable of some absolutely huge sounds you'd never expect from something as simple as this. To focus a 15 minute review on one type of sound is completely missing the point.
I’m going to surprise you when I say, “I love this little synth and BA-1 exceeded my expectations.” Disclosure: I work for another small plugin company (Pawel and others know this), but I’m just speaking for myself, on the weekend 😄 I grew up with the CS-01 mkII and a CZ-101 (similar market, not relevant to this review, though). That was the most I could afford back in the day, along with a cheap delay pedal, a Yamaha DD-5 drum machine, and a 4 track Porta One Ministudio. And I loved that gear, despite its limitations. Of course, I was always trying to get more out of it and wished the CS had had another OSC, built in effects, polyphony, etc. I’m sure I’m not alone. It was a long time before I grew up and got my big boy synths. Still, I was quite bonded with the CS-01, and wanted more out of it than I wanted an SH-101 or a Juno 106. I kept hoping for a $400 “CS-08” but it never came. (You likely would have hated the CS-01, btw 😂) So BA-1, to me, is a wonderful “What if…?” instrument. I finally got my voices, my fx, and my extra oscillator, all with the same vibe as the CS-01 that I still have. BA did an excellent job modeling the original, and expanding on it. And things like the lush UI, the battery and speaker features, and the presets (the original had none) are just icing on the cake. There were certainly more capable synths then as there are now. But until now no one has truly captured the vibe of the original so well and answered “What if…?” so stylishly. My POV is obviously colored by nostalgia. But I’m glad to see BA start here and find an audience that’s beyond old cheap kids from the 80s like me. Had they gone too far from the soul of the original, they would have ended up with just another plugin, one with a CS-like skin slapped on it. There’s nothing wrong with your reaction, of course. Not everything is for everyone, and - emulation or original - it’s not possible to make a synth that everyone feels should exist, or have in their setup. Believe me, I know 😄 But because it’s not for everyone, that’s why it’s important that your voice and valid opinion is heard as well. I can tell that BA-1 was a passion project. And in this biz some of the best products are those that developers bring into the world because they wanted to answer “What if…?” for themselves, and hopefully find some like-minded users along the way. BA-1 is a strong debut and I suspect they’ll go onto to eventually release something that’ll knock your socks off in a way that a synth inspired by (arguably) a high end toy could not.
Hey, Robert, good to hear from you! After reading all the comments, discussing with BA team I realised I was both right, yet also wrong in my opinion. I still don't really like the tone of BA-1, but my mistake was comparing it against another emulation, not the original. The "what if..." concept really spoke to me and I tweaked BA-1 more. As I take care of fair play in what I do, I'll probably drop another vid this week to explain mistakes I made to my public. Thanks for this amazing, priceless comment, Robert!
I hope this isn't a dumb question, but isn't there a big risk that doing a "what if..." type take on a classic synth, you end up with losing some of the character that made that synth special in the first place? Sometimes, it's the creativity that comes from having to work around limitations that causes the magic to happen. If you add to much to a recreation of a device, isn't there a risk that it becomes "just another synth"? Never having owned a CS-01, I can't speak to how the BA-1 compares of course, I'm just speaking in general terms. I have seen other plugins, where adding too much stuff makes it an entirely different thing altogether, and at that point, at least to me, it seems like you could just use any plugin.
@@rebeccaschade3987 Absolutely, 100% huge risk. And when it comes to adding anything to an emulation, it’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t.” If a software developer releases something that is completely accurate, it will take about 15 minutes before users start complaining about the things that weren’t added, or aspects of the original that weren’t “fixed.” IMO, a completely accurate CS-01 clone would have been met with a collective shrug and couldn’t justify its price. It requires walking a very fine line to decide what to add to increase utility and value. What’s probably more important is to make sure that the options are there to turn off the extras and allow users to dial back to only what was possible with the original hardware. Not at all a dumb question, btw 👏
It's a little bit like you're comparing an apple with an orange, and then you're disappointed that the apple isn't an orange. As an apple, the BA-1 seems like a mighty fine one.
It looks amazing, but Cherry Audio stuff is so much less expensive that I have a hard time justifying spending $50 on a softsynth. And I have a CS01 😊 GREAT video. Thank you for the demo!
Heads up for anyone reading this, you can get a few Cherry Audio synths and a bunch of soundpacks off Humble Bundle for under $30 for the next couple of days.
@@Time4CakeAndSodomy Good point! Yep, I already have all of those, but it's a great deal. $20 gets you the Cherry 2600 and a bunch of other soft synths, plus a DAW for Windows (I use a Mac), and a lot of sound packs, and it's all to support charity. Recommend!
Thanks for your honest review! It´s so difficult to find people who make those kinds of reviews cause most of the people are trying to get affiliates with the companies and are no more true anymore. My opinion:-) So thanks again! Love your channel
As always.. I love your honesty. 🙏 "Do we need this " is the key question that you raised in conclusion as the TAL and Hahaha do the job if you want an emulation of what was a mediocre synth at best even if you factor in it's budget price point... and yes, I have played the hardware version.
OTOH, I'd take BA-1 over any SH 101 emulation I can think of because it can sound so amazingly huge when you want it to. To home in on one aspect of it and say that makes it less than useful is a ridiculous way to look at it. All it tells me is it's not as good as some very ordinary synths for making very ordinary sounding basslines. However, the very slight thinness to the sound would be completely compensated for with the mildest application of EQ, or maybe a bit more resonance, so it's not even worth mentioning. But if you look at what it does really well, it is easy to find value in it, even at full price. For the intro price it's a complete no-brainer.
I've got an original and it can do a few really good sounds (IMO the PWM is awesome) but the single (digital) oscillator is pretty weedy for the most part. As for the filter, well the Minimoog isn't exactly worried. I did find it really came to life if you put it through a few effects though. Maybe the BA-1 is actually a really accurate emulation, and they added a load of extra stuff because that's how you use them.
I do think it's weird to do this comparison. If you don't have a real CS01 and therefore cannot compare it to the real thing you can't say it's a badly emulated synth. What you do here is expecting something of a synth that it was not designed to do. Like "Yeah, this screwdriver is fine, but it's just not as good for making holes as this drill, is it?". I would go as far as saying that it probably took more work to make this authentic than it would have been to make the low end nicer. Judge the features if you don't know the sound it emulates.
😉 When I heard the first note of this small VST synth, I knew after two seconds, aha - this is the way to go. OK.....😅 I'm a bit older and in my so-called "best years" I took part in the entire synth sound development, so to speak, "up close" or "ear close", starting with the Roland String-Ensemble RS-202, then the Korg Polysix was added for me (which could I could afford it financially at the time with about 3600 D-Mark, not a Jupiter 8 for 12,000 D-Mark 😅), then Roland SH-101, Casio CZ-1000, Roland D-50 and D-70, Korg Wavestation and M-3R, Kawai K- 4, Ensoniq SQ-1, Roland JD 800, JV-2080 and much more, I practically "had almost all of them" 😉. But now to get to the point: Another great tutorial from you, respect! I share 100% and all around your honest and personal assessment of this little VST synth. But as is the case with almost everything in life: There are interested users and sympathizers for everything. The sound of this small synth is without question in good hands in the "suitable music styles" and productions. But for me personally much less.
@@FoliaSound Thank you! You're welcome, you're honest and personable. By the way, I also know the VPS Avenger, and in this case I agree with you 100 percent. Stay fit and creative.🍀🍀🍀❤️🎶
Thanks for an honest and analytical video. I just bought UAD PolyMax and UAD Moog - a great combination of two very different character synths. I believe they don't need the company of BA-1. It's good to make a collection with not too many choices.
Yes I agree but still amazing when you compare what original will cost you. recently Baby Audio were having virtually giveaway sales listening to the VST synths against the real thing, with a decent sound monitoring and sorry to say the comparison was not close to the original so I think baby audio has got to really go back to the drawing board and possibly that’s why they have been selling off a lot of their old VST synthesisers so cheaply. Let’s hope the next generation from baby audio will be on the next level however they still give really good quality and great value for money so comparisons aside they are still incredibly good value for money the sounds cannot be compared to the original in some cases, but when you consider the price for an original piece of that equipment is a zillion times more than you’re actually paying plus they often have so many hardware issues then your getting fantastic value intact incredibly Thanks for this excellent presentation
Ive trialed this and it sounds great. I dont really care how close it is to the original or if an SH 101 sounds better. If it sounds decent and is 7saboe then that is all I need.
I'm probably gonna always be a sucker for Togu Audio Line's synths because they are SO FAT and real sounding. I use TAL-U-NO-LX and TAL-J8 on a regular basis.
For what it's worth, TAL Bassline 101 and TAL Uno LX are my two desert-island soft synths, since the day they were released. An instance of both are the only synths in my default Ableton set, for many years. Patrick Kunz is a megastar of VST the world, for me. He's on a par with Urs Heckmann. Baby Audio do make pretty cool plugins, but this one missed the mark.
@@FoliaSound I really like that you ask "Do we need this?". Some plugins, yeah after all these years, yes we do need them. Arturia's Lexicon reverb emulation being a good recent example... But the market is wide, an SH-101 emulation such as TAL's Bassline-101 can nail all your bass squelchiness needs, without that "homogenous" digital-algorithm for a low-pass... The free synth had more aggression, which gets my 👍all day... It's one thing to model a signal path... But as you state, the factory presets nail a lot of bases.. not basses tho, in my book! Save your money here! Love from Ireland...🤗
Little disappointed in this review, I own an SH101, The BA is not trying to do that. I have got the BA, as I like baby audio stuff, and already have found a use for it. The dieing battery is great and the presets are great starting points.
Again: I KNOW THAT. I compared BA-1 to CS01 first, and then to a synth from same age, with similar character. I discovered that BA-1 oscillators and filter sound very so-so.
@@FoliaSound Just because something is from the same era doesn't make the comparison legitimate. The SH-101 and CS-01 were fundamentally different synths even though they're from the same era. They are not SUPPOSED to have anything like the same character! The original CS-01 had DCOs and a simple 12db Filter. Revision 2 was 24db and added a resonance control but it was still never going to be some bass monster. It's supposed to have a kind of plasticky thin sound. It was often used with the Keytar. It was often subject to circuit bending to get more out of it. This is what Baby Audio are trying to achieve I guess and they've succeeded. Even the battery slider is a variation on a mod that limited voltage to get weird instabilities. The one thing that the CS-01 was noted for was its excellent PWM and the BA-1 nails that. The SH101, on the other hand, had a CEM3340 VCO (used in the Oberheims) and IR3109 filter (the same one in the Jupiter 6 and 8). That's going to give you some serious fatness. Nobody is saying you should like it but criticising it for being something it's not even trying to be is unfair. BA-1 leans into the cheap/nasty/quirky circuit bent world of the CS-01. That's the whole point and to my ears they've really nailed it.
Too many software synths for this to be relevant. Thank you for always being honest and having integrity. I always laugh when music influencers start with "i recieved this product for free but my opinions are my own" and go on to try and sell you the new shiny toy lol. Should just title their videos as product demos and not reviews.
Hey! Sometimes I get NFRs from companies, but what I can tell you is that sometimes the best I can offer is my silence and not reviewing some products at all. Sometimes I also ask companies for NFR, when I know the product is great and I need it - and I offer my review. Sometimes companies ask me to make paid vids, but in this case I always tell them: you can buy my time to shoot and edit a vid, but I don't guarantee you a positive review. If I don't like it, I criticize it, thus my vid is not a paid promotion - it's my time you buy, not my opinion. Are you ok with that? You can always quit :) I think this is quite a fair policy that lets me avoid traps of youtubing... Cheers!
thanks for this. really good information and comparison. I think another synth that was worth comparing in here was SH 101 from Roland Cloud, I was following along on it through the video :)
Thanks! I didn't want to include another SH-101 emu, as it was just an addition to my vid. This addition made even some people think I too BA-1 as a SH-101 clone, though I stated clearly in the intro, that we're talking about CS01 inspired design. TH-cam is a strange place sometimes!
Limitations breeds creativity for me. Give Leonardo Da Vinci, just a piece of charcoal and he will probably make a masterpiece. Its no Serum, but this piece of charcoal seems appealing for what it is, not.
I think Baby Audio tried to do a meme synth abd it probably shouldn't be treated that seriously. And hey have quite succedded as it really has got that meme sound with the speaker emulation. Could it be usefull in the production? Probably could fit in a couple of fun chiptune or stylized synthwave mixes...
It's nice that BA is starting to get into synths but this is a useless one and just a money grab IMO. I can't believe people would even review it TBH..
Precisely. It’s 9.99 novelty synth plugin AT MOST. I recorded it on a track next to a Roland Jupiter track and solo’d them together. The sound of BA-1 sounded so cheap, harsh, plastic, and well cheap. If that’s the sound someone wants, it’s a cheap chip tune emulator. Zero warmth.
The BA-1 fits into more retro genres of music, which doesn't seem to be your thing. The fact it doesn't produce the type of sound you want for EDM tracks is probably the least surprising thing in the world. It's like trying to cut a steak with a log splitter; not a bad tool, just the wrong tool for the job.
@@FoliaSound To be honest, I'm not a regular viewer and watched your review amongst others to make an informed purchasing decision. Admittedly, I made assumptions about what genre you're into by what sort of track you put BA-1 into. Sorry if I misjudged but the character of BA-1 definitely didn't fit what you put it in. That's fine; it's not for everyone, but my comment was really to distinguish for your audience that it's not bad in itself, just not suited for that project. I did buy it and it's quickly become my GOAT synth.
@@FoliaSound This reply shows me that you have integrity and I'll keep an eye out for the new video. I did go back and watch your review of Saurus 4 by Tone2, which I thought was a very good showcase of that synth's sound.
Hello, people! What do you think about new Baby Audio synth? Sticking to something else? Buying it? Let me know down below!
Wow, even the free one has more punch! The only thing I learned here today is that should dig up tal bassline again ;)
Absolutely not :D
@@steverachmadofficial TAL Bassline 101 is outstanding! Sounds like nothing else.
The sequencer section sends Midi out of the plugin too. Superb!
It would be interesting to compare this and its oscillator/filter with the actual hardware. Is it possible that this offering is closer to emulating the hardware, that the hardware actually has a more "plastic sound" in its own right? Is it possible that the other VSTs have their own "character" that might sound "richer" or enhanced in some way? I doubt it, but it would be fun to see the comparison if anyone could get their hands on the hardware and do it. LOL
@@KristianWontroba , you might be totally right on this, actually.
Hey there. Thanks for an honest review! But context is everything so please allow us to provide some:
The CS01 was a lo-fi sounding, toy-resembling, synth made with cheap components. It sounded gritty and quirky -- but it was NOT a bass monster!
It's exactly that plasticky/cheap/lo-fi sound you're talking about that makes the CS01 unique. It brings a totally different color. And that's what we wanted to emulate and expand upon with BA-1.
In a head to head test with a good SH-101 emulation there's no doubt the SH-101 has a bigger and richer bass response. That's the case if you compare the hardware. And the software.
As for the Hahaha plugin: Respectfully, it sounds like that plugin might be using standard VA oscillators and filters -- because the real CS01 did not have that much low end. This was part of its quirk.
We're not saying you're wrong to call it plasticky or not like it. But just that our goal was never to make a synth that would beat the SH-101 on having the heaviest bass response. (If so, we'd have done something entirely different :)
Guys, thanks for reaching out to me personally, this is great! As for the design of the original, I have to tell you, that listening to some hardware CS01 stuff on YT gave me different feeling than your plugin - and obviously don't mean the speaker thing, I mean line out like in this vid: th-cam.com/video/VSyWnibo6K8/w-d-xo.html
I'd like to learn more aboit your oscillator and filter design. What you did there sounds very clean and superstable - just very digital (again - not mentioning the speaker thing).l, like a pure math, simplest elements.
That's the point of my critics. Also, many of your presets seem quite "large", "epic" in design, using lots of effects, not quite like plasticky chiptune style.
The third thing id that I compared the sound of three digital products, where 101 was an addition. I designed two instances of it same way as BA-1, squuare plus saw, nothing is octave down on 101, quite fair comparison of oscs and filters.
It's great to have this conversation and show the people, that we can discuss things competently and in a friendly atmosphere :) That's the way to do it!
I love your Taip by the way and I'm always waiting for your further releases!
Totally agree, that's exactly the point of this synth. I don't know why is he comparing it to sh101 😄
I didn't even listen to the video and I knew someone would point out that it's not a SH-101 emulation
I did extensive 1:1 comparisons during the beta phase of the plugin with my real CS01 Mk1 and I think the basic sound is definitely very close. The CS01 has a DCO that never really sounds „warm“ or „analog“, but is very stable and rather thin sounding. It’s not a „bass monster“ in that regard, apart from some filter sweetspots with activated resonance. The plugin captures this core sound very nicely and adds a lot of things the real CS01 could never do. Both the original and the plugin sound completely different than my SH-101 (which also goes for most of the 101 plugins, by the way), so I personally would want both in my setup.
@@FoliaSound I think the problem is that it’s too good (way too many functions) to be a truthful CS01 emulation and it’s not good enough, especially for the money, to compete with the “big boys”.
By the way, Alex Ball did a nice demo with a real CS01.
Forgive my opinion
Tal is an emulation of the Roland sh101, not a Yamaha.
If we have to be honest, the cs 101 certainly doesn't shine with its plastic sound, in fact it's a synthesiser that is usually used to make indie or lo-fi music. If you try to make a house base like it, you obviously won't like it. The sh101 on the other hand was a bass machine that was widely used in house music.
We can say that you don't like it, but maybe it would be good to value the synthesiser for its strengths, showing its weaknesses is like saying that monophonic sucks because it doesn't have polyphony
I know it, my main comparoson was CS01 vs BA-1. SH-101 is a synth of similar age and character, that's why I included it additionally in the test. That's it.
@@FoliaSound The CS01-II (the black one) was a revised version of the original Yamaha CS01, with a different VCF section with a 24 dB/oct LP filter and a variable setting for the resonance. The mk1 had a 12 db/oct filter which gives a totally different response in the bass. So even trying the other plugin you proposed doesn't make much sense
@@cinemalulli , why? As I didn't know, which version Baby Audio tried to emulate, I tried them both. I believe, that Baby Audio's take was on V2, as the filter is definitely closer in sound here. What's my mistake here? What doesn't make sense here? Plus: how does the lowpass slope affect the low end, when it's open?
I found both V1 and V2 of free Hahaha CS01 having rounder, better designed bottom end, while BA-1 sounds like a brute, purely mathematical, flat osc+filter.
Again: what doesn't fit in here? What's your logic, when saying my comparison makes no sense? I'm just comparing digital products, stating that one of them sounds a bit less good. That's it.
I love the BA-1...sits really well in the mix.
Plasticy synths often do. That's Arturia's whole schtick.
@@trollingisasport you think Arturias soft synths sounds plastic ?? I don’t think so to be honest . They to me are super good at getting that analogue sound and feel to thier synths . But of course it’s a matter of taste (-,
comparing against stupid comparisons , glad to see babyaudio schooled you
Poor review. BA-1 is not a great bass synth but for many other types of sounds it is very, very good. e.g. See how well TAL-101 does with an FM bass patch. BA-1's filter is perfectly serviceable, even though it exhibits some of the limitations of a ladder filter. The oscillators are amazing and the synth is capable of some absolutely huge sounds you'd never expect from something as simple as this. To focus a 15 minute review on one type of sound is completely missing the point.
I’m going to surprise you when I say, “I love this little synth and BA-1 exceeded my expectations.”
Disclosure: I work for another small plugin company (Pawel and others know this), but I’m just speaking for myself, on the weekend 😄
I grew up with the CS-01 mkII and a CZ-101 (similar market, not relevant to this review, though). That was the most I could afford back in the day, along with a cheap delay pedal, a Yamaha DD-5 drum machine, and a 4 track Porta One Ministudio. And I loved that gear, despite its limitations. Of course, I was always trying to get more out of it and wished the CS had had another OSC, built in effects, polyphony, etc. I’m sure I’m not alone. It was a long time before I grew up and got my big boy synths. Still, I was quite bonded with the CS-01, and wanted more out of it than I wanted an SH-101 or a Juno 106. I kept hoping for a $400 “CS-08” but it never came.
(You likely would have hated the CS-01, btw 😂)
So BA-1, to me, is a wonderful “What if…?” instrument. I finally got my voices, my fx, and my extra oscillator, all with the same vibe as the CS-01 that I still have. BA did an excellent job modeling the original, and expanding on it. And things like the lush UI, the battery and speaker features, and the presets (the original had none) are just icing on the cake. There were certainly more capable synths then as there are now. But until now no one has truly captured the vibe of the original so well and answered “What if…?” so stylishly.
My POV is obviously colored by nostalgia. But I’m glad to see BA start here and find an audience that’s beyond old cheap kids from the 80s like me. Had they gone too far from the soul of the original, they would have ended up with just another plugin, one with a CS-like skin slapped on it.
There’s nothing wrong with your reaction, of course. Not everything is for everyone, and - emulation or original - it’s not possible to make a synth that everyone feels should exist, or have in their setup. Believe me, I know 😄 But because it’s not for everyone, that’s why it’s important that your voice and valid opinion is heard as well.
I can tell that BA-1 was a passion project. And in this biz some of the best products are those that developers bring into the world because they wanted to answer “What if…?” for themselves, and hopefully find some like-minded users along the way. BA-1 is a strong debut and I suspect they’ll go onto to eventually release something that’ll knock your socks off in a way that a synth inspired by (arguably) a high end toy could not.
Hey, Robert, good to hear from you! After reading all the comments, discussing with BA team I realised I was both right, yet also wrong in my opinion. I still don't really like the tone of BA-1, but my mistake was comparing it against another emulation, not the original. The "what if..." concept really spoke to me and I tweaked BA-1 more. As I take care of fair play in what I do, I'll probably drop another vid this week to explain mistakes I made to my public.
Thanks for this amazing, priceless comment, Robert!
I hope this isn't a dumb question, but isn't there a big risk that doing a "what if..." type take on a classic synth, you end up with losing some of the character that made that synth special in the first place? Sometimes, it's the creativity that comes from having to work around limitations that causes the magic to happen. If you add to much to a recreation of a device, isn't there a risk that it becomes "just another synth"?
Never having owned a CS-01, I can't speak to how the BA-1 compares of course, I'm just speaking in general terms. I have seen other plugins, where adding too much stuff makes it an entirely different thing altogether, and at that point, at least to me, it seems like you could just use any plugin.
@@rebeccaschade3987 Absolutely, 100% huge risk. And when it comes to adding anything to an emulation, it’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t.” If a software developer releases something that is completely accurate, it will take about 15 minutes before users start complaining about the things that weren’t added, or aspects of the original that weren’t “fixed.” IMO, a completely accurate CS-01 clone would have been met with a collective shrug and couldn’t justify its price. It requires walking a very fine line to decide what to add to increase utility and value. What’s probably more important is to make sure that the options are there to turn off the extras and allow users to dial back to only what was possible with the original hardware. Not at all a dumb question, btw 👏
It's a little bit like you're comparing an apple with an orange, and then you're disappointed that the apple isn't an orange. As an apple, the BA-1 seems like a mighty fine one.
It looks amazing, but Cherry Audio stuff is so much less expensive that I have a hard time justifying spending $50 on a softsynth. And I have a CS01 😊 GREAT video. Thank you for the demo!
Thank you! Same here: Cherry Audio delivers amazing stuff at crazy price point, love it too!
Exactly what I have said in other reviews. I would rather invest my money in a good synth from Cherry Audio.
Heads up for anyone reading this, you can get a few Cherry Audio synths and a bunch of soundpacks off Humble Bundle for under $30 for the next couple of days.
@@Time4CakeAndSodomy Good point! Yep, I already have all of those, but it's a great deal. $20 gets you the Cherry 2600 and a bunch of other soft synths, plus a DAW for Windows (I use a Mac), and a lot of sound packs, and it's all to support charity. Recommend!
Thanks for your honest review! It´s so difficult to find people who make those kinds of reviews cause most of the people are trying to get affiliates with the companies and are no more true anymore. My opinion:-) So thanks again! Love your channel
i got this last night and spent several hours of the evening playing with it. really fun, strait forward.
Picked it up today as well.
As always.. I love your honesty. 🙏 "Do we need this " is the key question that you raised in conclusion as the TAL and Hahaha do the job if you want an emulation of what was a mediocre synth at best even if you factor in it's budget price point... and yes, I have played the hardware version.
Thank you, sir, at your service!
OTOH, I'd take BA-1 over any SH 101 emulation I can think of because it can sound so amazingly huge when you want it to. To home in on one aspect of it and say that makes it less than useful is a ridiculous way to look at it. All it tells me is it's not as good as some very ordinary synths for making very ordinary sounding basslines. However, the very slight thinness to the sound would be completely compensated for with the mildest application of EQ, or maybe a bit more resonance, so it's not even worth mentioning. But if you look at what it does really well, it is easy to find value in it, even at full price. For the intro price it's a complete no-brainer.
I've got an original and it can do a few really good sounds (IMO the PWM is awesome) but the single (digital) oscillator is pretty weedy for the most part. As for the filter, well the Minimoog isn't exactly worried. I did find it really came to life if you put it through a few effects though. Maybe the BA-1 is actually a really accurate emulation, and they added a load of extra stuff because that's how you use them.
Nice point of view, thanks! I can't judge the original, so I based on the digital CS01, which sounded better than BA-1. You still might be right!
I do think it's weird to do this comparison. If you don't have a real CS01 and therefore cannot compare it to the real thing you can't say it's a badly emulated synth. What you do here is expecting something of a synth that it was not designed to do. Like "Yeah, this screwdriver is fine, but it's just not as good for making holes as this drill, is it?". I would go as far as saying that it probably took more work to make this authentic than it would have been to make the low end nicer. Judge the features if you don't know the sound it emulates.
Thanks for a comment! Yep, I understood my mistake here, will do a vid or a post about it soon!
I haven't expected to see hahaha plugins anywhere ever, but it's nice.
😉 When I heard the first note of this small VST synth, I knew after two seconds, aha - this is the way to go. OK.....😅 I'm a bit older and in my so-called "best years" I took part in the entire synth sound development, so to speak, "up close" or "ear close", starting with the Roland String-Ensemble RS-202, then the Korg Polysix was added for me (which could I could afford it financially at the time with about 3600 D-Mark, not a Jupiter 8 for 12,000 D-Mark 😅), then Roland SH-101, Casio CZ-1000, Roland D-50 and D-70, Korg Wavestation and M-3R, Kawai K- 4, Ensoniq SQ-1, Roland JD 800, JV-2080 and much more, I practically "had almost all of them" 😉.
But now to get to the point: Another great tutorial from you, respect! I share 100% and all around your honest and personal assessment of this little VST synth. But as is the case with almost everything in life: There are interested users and sympathizers for everything. The sound of this small synth is without question in good hands in the "suitable music styles" and productions. But for me personally much less.
What a nice comment and approach. Thanks, Mike!
@@FoliaSound Thank you! You're welcome, you're honest and personable. By the way, I also know the VPS Avenger, and in this case I agree with you 100 percent. Stay fit and creative.🍀🍀🍀❤️🎶
Thanks for an honest and analytical video. I just bought UAD PolyMax and UAD Moog - a great combination of two very different character synths. I believe they don't need the company of BA-1. It's good to make a collection with not too many choices.
Sure thing. Thanks gor a comment.
Yes I agree but still amazing when you compare what original will cost you.
recently Baby Audio were having virtually giveaway sales listening to the VST synths against the real thing, with a decent sound monitoring and sorry to say the comparison was not close to the original so I think baby audio has got to really go back to the drawing board and possibly that’s why they have been selling off a lot of their old VST synthesisers so cheaply. Let’s hope the next generation from baby audio will be on the next level however they still give really good quality and great value for money so comparisons aside they are still incredibly good value for money the sounds cannot be compared to the original in some cases, but when you consider the price for an original piece of that equipment is a zillion times more than you’re actually paying plus they often have so many hardware issues then your getting fantastic value intact incredibly
Thanks for this excellent presentation
Ive trialed this and it sounds great. I dont really care how close it is to the original or if an SH 101 sounds better. If it sounds decent and is 7saboe then that is all I need.
I'm totally fine with that :) Thanks for sharing your opinion!
Thanks for the honest review man.
No probs!
Me personally I love it.. I love the speaker function.. talk about fitting in the mix.. I love how corky it is also
I'm totally fine with people liking it :) I think it's a good design, my only, yet major concert is about oscillator and filter quality...
I'm probably gonna always be a sucker for Togu Audio Line's synths because they are SO FAT and real sounding. I use TAL-U-NO-LX and TAL-J8 on a regular basis.
TAL are insane, totally true... I use their BassLine and I'm not even interested in other SH-101 emus...
Thank you for this review! Definitely think BA have overpriced it. Shame about the oscillators and filters - the other features are really cool.
Anyone remember (still have) “Sample Moog” (from IK Multimedia?) it’s been ages but I still remember LOVING the sound (compared to plugins back then).
I don't, but I heard good things about it!
A really good video! Love the honesty and openness, really appreciate the candour!
Easy sub, for me...
For what it's worth, TAL Bassline 101 and TAL Uno LX are my two desert-island soft synths, since the day they were released. An instance of both are the only synths in my default Ableton set, for many years. Patrick Kunz is a megastar of VST the world, for me. He's on a par with Urs Heckmann.
Baby Audio do make pretty cool plugins, but this one missed the mark.
Hello, sir, good to have you here, welcome! Thanks for a valuable comment to start off our discussions! Cheers!
@@FoliaSound I really like that you ask "Do we need this?".
Some plugins, yeah after all these years, yes we do need them. Arturia's Lexicon reverb emulation being a good recent example...
But the market is wide, an SH-101 emulation such as TAL's Bassline-101 can nail all your bass squelchiness needs, without that "homogenous" digital-algorithm for a low-pass... The free synth had more aggression, which gets my 👍all day...
It's one thing to model a signal path... But as you state, the factory presets nail a lot of bases.. not basses tho, in my book!
Save your money here!
Love from Ireland...🤗
big respect for keeping it real
Thanks!
Little disappointed in this review, I own an SH101, The BA is not trying to do that. I have got the BA, as I like baby audio stuff, and already have found a use for it. The dieing battery is great and the presets are great starting points.
Again: I KNOW THAT. I compared BA-1 to CS01 first, and then to a synth from same age, with similar character. I discovered that BA-1 oscillators and filter sound very so-so.
@@FoliaSound Just because something is from the same era doesn't make the comparison legitimate.
The SH-101 and CS-01 were fundamentally different synths even though they're from the same era. They are not SUPPOSED to have anything like the same character!
The original CS-01 had DCOs and a simple 12db Filter. Revision 2 was 24db and added a resonance control but it was still never going to be some bass monster. It's supposed to have a kind of plasticky thin sound. It was often used with the Keytar. It was often subject to circuit bending to get more out of it. This is what Baby Audio are trying to achieve I guess and they've succeeded. Even the battery slider is a variation on a mod that limited voltage to get weird instabilities.
The one thing that the CS-01 was noted for was its excellent PWM and the BA-1 nails that.
The SH101, on the other hand, had a CEM3340 VCO (used in the Oberheims) and IR3109 filter (the same one in the Jupiter 6 and 8). That's going to give you some serious fatness.
Nobody is saying you should like it but criticising it for being something it's not even trying to be is unfair.
BA-1 leans into the cheap/nasty/quirky circuit bent world of the CS-01. That's the whole point and to my ears they've really nailed it.
Great Results: I AGREE:))
Too many software synths for this to be relevant. Thank you for always being honest and having integrity. I always laugh when music influencers start with "i recieved this product for free but my opinions are my own" and go on to try and sell you the new shiny toy lol. Should just title their videos as product demos and not reviews.
Hey! Sometimes I get NFRs from companies, but what I can tell you is that sometimes the best I can offer is my silence and not reviewing some products at all. Sometimes I also ask companies for NFR, when I know the product is great and I need it - and I offer my review. Sometimes companies ask me to make paid vids, but in this case I always tell them: you can buy my time to shoot and edit a vid, but I don't guarantee you a positive review. If I don't like it, I criticize it, thus my vid is not a paid promotion - it's my time you buy, not my opinion. Are you ok with that? You can always quit :)
I think this is quite a fair policy that lets me avoid traps of youtubing... Cheers!
great show my friend
Thanks, James!
9:10 sounds like the other synths have some sub oscillator mixed in?
I know! The point is... they have none. This is BA-1 sounding thinner :)
next time you should do blind test ;) thanks for the video
Thanks!
thanks for this. really good information and comparison. I think another synth that was worth comparing in here was SH 101 from Roland Cloud, I was following along on it through the video :)
Thanks! I didn't want to include another SH-101 emu, as it was just an addition to my vid. This addition made even some people think I too BA-1 as a SH-101 clone, though I stated clearly in the intro, that we're talking about CS01 inspired design. TH-cam is a strange place sometimes!
I think it is way to expensive . even for an emulation...
So is not an emulation of the CS01
Oh a Cubase user... OK, sub and like for that 🙂
It's actually Nuendo :) Cheers!
@@FoliaSound ha ha, also very nice :)
Haha mam Tal darmowy i tak sobie myśle czy ……?
Jednak nie fajnie i dzięki
W sumie to tyle ode mnie e e e e sorry za delay
There's a third party rack extention in reason called "ES-01" its a CS-01 emulation but has a mod matrix.
Good to know, thanks!
Nice review. This is the first one I've seen where it's been programmed without the built in effects, which shows its weaknesses.
Thanks!
What synth is the cherry audio here?
There is no Cherry Audio synth here. Why?
Limitations breeds creativity for me. Give Leonardo Da Vinci, just a piece of charcoal and he will probably make a masterpiece. Its no Serum, but this piece of charcoal seems appealing for what it is, not.
I think Baby Audio tried to do a meme synth abd it probably shouldn't be treated that seriously. And hey have quite succedded as it really has got that meme sound with the speaker emulation. Could it be usefull in the production? Probably could fit in a couple of fun chiptune or stylized synthwave mixes...
That's for sure!
Just more noise on the synth market... 🤷♂
TAL is so money
I don't think I understood your comment, sorry...
Same. I heard the sounds on the youtube reviews. Plasticy and weak.
thanks for you honest feedback.I won't check out this Baby Audio product either, I am just not gonna need this
Good to hear from you, Glenn, cheers and see you at the next synth :)
(shrugs) You don't like it, you don't like it =]
Exactly - this is how every review works!
It's nice that BA is starting to get into synths but this is a useless one and just a money grab IMO. I can't believe people would even review it TBH..
I completely didn't know what to expect, so I pulled a trigger and finally I have to somehow agree with you :)
Precisely. It’s 9.99 novelty synth plugin AT MOST. I recorded it on a track next to a Roland Jupiter track and solo’d them together. The sound of BA-1 sounded so cheap, harsh, plastic, and well cheap. If that’s the sound someone wants, it’s a cheap chip tune emulator. Zero warmth.
Oh, I love this scent since it’s update and have bought all of the the preset packs.
It does anything from synthwave/electro to pop trap.
The ba-1 is super overpriced
The BA-1 fits into more retro genres of music, which doesn't seem to be your thing. The fact it doesn't produce the type of sound you want for EDM tracks is probably the least surprising thing in the world. It's like trying to cut a steak with a log splitter; not a bad tool, just the wrong tool for the job.
EDM? Try Sylenth1 or Serum
I'm also into synthwave a lot, you can hear in on my chan :) Still, BA-1 tone is not my tone, true all the way!
@@FoliaSound To be honest, I'm not a regular viewer and watched your review amongst others to make an informed purchasing decision. Admittedly, I made assumptions about what genre you're into by what sort of track you put BA-1 into. Sorry if I misjudged but the character of BA-1 definitely didn't fit what you put it in. That's fine; it's not for everyone, but my comment was really to distinguish for your audience that it's not bad in itself, just not suited for that project. I did buy it and it's quickly become my GOAT synth.
@@TheCosmicTeapot , I think I made some cardinal mistakes when reviewing thys synth. I'll probably make a 2nd vid on it this week.
@@FoliaSound This reply shows me that you have integrity and I'll keep an eye out for the new video. I did go back and watch your review of Saurus 4 by Tone2, which I thought was a very good showcase of that synth's sound.