My perception of Supermans personality is that he's supposed to be so pure of heart that he could ride Goku's nimbus cloud. I don't see that when I see this version of Superman.
Here's a fix to the Martha scene Have Batman not kill at all during the movie. Have him stick to the rule he's known best for- don't kill no matter what And when Batman goes to kill Superman, He knows he's about to break his rule, but he tricks himself because, Superman is essentially a god. He's not human. And when Superman says "Martha" he obviously has flashbacks. He obviously screams "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!?!?!" But it dawns on him. Superman isn't as alien as Batman told himself that he is. He's killing someone who has a mother, who he cares about, and who cares about him. He realizes that if he kills Superman, and breaks his rule He's no better than the guy who shot his parents in the alleyway Of course that requires a director who actually gives a flying fuck about the source material
THANK YOU!!! Even better, if Snyder is taking inspiration from Frank Miller's 'The Dark Knight Returns,' then Batman should NOT have been murdering criminals, but breaking their bones!
@@SemiJuggaloNumber2 He wasn't murdering them, the brand marked them but Luthor's hired garbage thugs did the killing. Batman is jaded as hell to their deaths, but he doesn't technically kill anyone directly. I know, that's a pretty big leap, but this is very much Batman being jaded and not caring as much about the rule because of the hopelessness of this new threat. It's a dark but understandable route for a human being to take in light of this plot.
I can't tell you how many debates I had with Snyder dick riders. Likes it's a movie that I can turn my brain off to, but beyond that, and the sick armor Batman uses in his fight with Supes, there is nothing in this movie that is cohesive on purpose.
In a universe Batman has no problem at all in killing people, including very small time criminals, why in the love of f*ck would the joker even be alive?
No its “hide behind a tower shield and poke the closest thing resembling a hollow” until its torso jizzes on you and you get money to upgrade that same spear.
"Hes a boyscout right?" Actually hes- "Right right, just have him jump around, and smush stuff, I dunno! Just get me pictures of SuperSpiderMan! Hes a menace to society!"
@@crimsondynamo615 All Star Superman is always the quickest answer, I think any good Supes story can make him more nuanced, All Star Superman is him at his best and we've already seen that kind of Superman that on the screen. We deserve a more interesting Clark Kent without resorting to make him a angsty super murderer.
...Superman did not say a single word to Wonder Woman... Holy shit, that legit knocks this movie down a good couple of notches Like, a lot of notches Holy fucking shit, are you serious?
Inaccurate. Wonder Woman questions where Doomsday came from and Superman replies that it's from another world. Doesn't make it much better since its one single line but it's there.
He doesn't even ask who the fuck she is though. Random lady appears with powers that are pretty similar to his own, all he says is "yo Bruce is that yours?" "Nah homie I thought she was yo bitch." "Aight." And then they move on. By the time Superman "died", he didn't even know her name. If he had had to call out to her in battle, he wouldn't have been able to say anything other than "hey, you." It's fucking baffling.
Yeah i guess he should sit down and have tea not like a being almost 2x his strength is fighting right in front of him. Im sure doomsday will wait. Lot of pulling to get so many dislikes for the movie. Not a fan or anything but so much of their and your nitpicks for why its the worst movie EVA can be explained by thinking a bit. People yell why do movies talk down and explain everything. Movies leave some obvious things to you for figuring out. WHHHAAY didnt they explain how he got here where did why didnt she powers did this etc. Most of the nitpicks super best friends say can be explained. Movie is bad or not great cause the overall story is weak and storytelling and pacing was poor but this was a first for batman and superman actually fighting like the cartoons.
I'm still holding out hope that someone will steal the reigns from Snyder, turn the current DC Cinematic Universe into the Justice Lords universe, and have the real Justice League show up through a portal and be like "What the fuck is this?"
Well their half way there. Warner bros. took their the keys from Snyder and his henchmen and gave them to Affleck. Snyder's name may be on the box but he's not in charge anymore. Affleck is.
Some folks have defended "Martha", saying that rather than everything hinging on a stupid coincidence, or Batman's Mommy issues, it was meant to show Batman realising that Superman was actually raised on Earth, by a human family, rather than just some alien who just turned up. That would be like if some right-wing skin-head was to kick the shit out of some Arabic-looking dude, then relented because the Arabic dude said "Hey man, I'm from Arkansas!". That doesn't make the skin-head a hero! Nor does it make the Arabic dude "safe" because he's actually from the US.
It genuinely makes me upset when people try to justify this stupid fucking plot point. I understand what Snyder was going for - and he was going for was fucking stupid.
To be fair, even comic book Batman is put on tilt when you mention his parents. Sometimes it makes him cry, other times he just pauses, but it always affects him. That has always been a thing with him.
Not to the ludicrous extent in BvS, though; Batman at his worst in the 00's became the 'MY PARENTS ARE DEEEADDD!' meme, Batman at his best should just use them and himself as an example of why he does what he does; someone mumbling 'M--m-mur-Martha' at him is just.. What? Like, why is Superman even referring to his mother on a first name basis?
the problem with that is that should not affect his decision to kill superman. it’s a coincidence at best not a reason to not go though with spearing superman.
I agree, given the extremes Batman goes to; I understand thematically that he sees Superman as being dangerous in the same light as Lex does and only learns too late that it's not the case, but Batman here is so far over the line that learning that this supposed alien is as 'human' as him should just prompt the response of shivving him anyway. Human life is not particularly precious to this shitshow take on the character.
And what kills this movie even more, is that Wonder Woman is introduced here, instead of her upcoming solo movie. Which is fucking stupid and made her impact in BvS even less than it already is.
Yeah about the injustice thing, yeah that's dumb. THAT far. So far across the edge, it's ridiculous. Like I always compare Injustice Superman to Justice Lords Superman from the Justice League animated series. Flash is publicly executed by Lex Luthor, who became president. Superman then kills Lex Luthor in anger. And instead of just killing everyone that crosses him, the Justice League just become a dictatorship and just control everything, or attempt too. Stepping out of line doesn't get you killed though. (He did however lobotomise both Doomsday and Joker however) Anyway, I don't think one death pushes Superman so far over the edge like that. It'll push him yeah, but not as far as Injustice.
In this one comic Manchester Black used his psychic powers to make Superman think he murdered Lois expecting Superman to kill him, however Superman said that he would bury Lois and take Black to prison. At this point Black realized that he had become the villain and revealed that Lois was actually fine and then Black killed himself.
In the case of Injustice, it always struck me less as "Lois is dead, my moral lynchpin is gone, I'm going to kill everyone" and more "I'm going to take over the world so I can protect it, because doing things the old way saw me lose everything I care for." Then the actual conflicts that naturally arise from doing that (world governments saying 'no' would inevitably lead to Superman fighting and killing normal people to take them over, which would just escalate things further) just hardened him and made him a ruthless dictator. That and the Injustice universe does go to show that not everyone is exactly the same personality-wise as they are in the baseline universe (goodguy Lex being the stand out), so it makes it a little bit more believable for me.
WoobooRidesAgain What you said is exactly what happens in the prequel comics for Injustice. Lois and his city dying wasn't just the main reason, it was the fact that letting people with too much power roam free or simply be arrested wasn't working in his eyes, at least not anymore. After killing the Joker, he felt bad about it, but once seeing how things in Gotham got less fucked up as a result, he saw what the rest of the world was like, and decided to step in and call out EVERYONE who did terrible shit, including governments. He still tries not to kill people, but as time goes by, he becomes more ruthless and merciless. Though, to be fair, Batman did tons of shit that drove him there. Literally no one in the Injustice universe is right at all. It's like being a dick is part of their DNA.
The entire problem with Superman in these movies is that Zack Snyder made such a big fucking deal about Superman killing Zod. Everybody was fucking fine with it. Zod was a crazy asshole who wasn't gonna stop. It's fine to kill if it means saving an innocent person's life, especially when it's crazy smug assholes like Zod. It's not like he's going Punisher or something. The Punisher actively goes out to deprive criminals their due process, or at least when he's supposed to be an asshole. Superman killed ONE. FUCKING. GUY. And in fact, even worse, he ONLY CARES ABOUT ZOD. God knows how many people he killed fighting Zod! MAN OF STEEL IS SO BAD.
According to US culture there is zero moral quandary with killing Zod in that situation. You mean a crazy genocidal alien I am trying to restrain is trying to roast some people with his laser eyes RIGHT NOW and absolutely refuses to stop trying to roast people even though I keep telling him to stop? Snap his neck, save innocent lives. If Zod was helpless and restrained it would be a different story, but he wasn't. In Man of Steel, Superman is constantly choosing to hurt people for a greater good (he fucking burns Lois with his laser eyes instead of using any of his other bazillion powers to stop her bleeding). Flipping around in the next film and treating it like a bad thing without actually challenging that morality is dumb.
This is why I appreciate One Punch Man quite a lot. OPM is the best Superman Archetype that I have seen in a while. He's up there with people like Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star, or Thor, or Shazam. He's quite similar to Shazam, actually, because he has an unconventional non-superhero life compared to other heroes. Saitama is a lay-about without a real job until he becomes a part time hero, and Shazam is 12 years old outside of his super hero time.
I thought the struggle in killing Zod is the about Superman's identity crisis, where he couldn't decide to blend in or be the god among men, the two opposing ideas that came from his two dead fathers. And when Zod shows up it's like, "Hey it's people of my kind! Oh wait they are such douchebags, and now I have to kill the last of my people to save humans who will never accept who I truely am." So that didn't give me much of a problem. Overall I kinda liked Man of Steel, as it's own thing and not a prequel to BvS. Also I just don't understand why Superman has to be Jesus.
I hate the ending of this movie, solely because Superman comes back to life. It's not even because it's Superman. I just hate when characters die and come back to life for no reason.
Not to mention it completely defeats the purpose of killing Superman, altogether. Hell, that isn't even going into the fact that shoehorning Superman's death into this movie wasn't earned in the slightest.
Honestly, Superman's death should be like Steel Ball Run: pieces of his battered corpse end up in multiple places around the world, and those who claim them gain his power, making it a race for the other Justice League members to secure the parts or destroy them before someone else claims them. That is how the death of Superman should be handled if it is to be taken as a serious plot point. None of this "oh he's fine, we put dramatic emphasis on his death for no fucking reason" bullshit!
I don't like how media outside of comics like to really play up the Messianic overtones with Superman. It very rarely happens in the comics themselves, and when its done in movies or shows it comes off as pretty pretentious. The only shows to my knowledge that don't do this are Superman TAS and Justice League TAS. I'm pretty glad that Snyder is no longer in charge of the DC Cinematic Universe and Affleck is now in charge, though personally I kinda wish they would get good DC writers to help out, like Grant Morrison, Geoff Johns, and/or Mark Waid
That's a really good point. I hate how Superman is treated like this alien messiah instead of just this guy who genuinely wants to use his powers for good-a literal boyscout. And it's just in the movies, making it really annoying-putting it under the guise of being "realistic". Superman isn't supposed to be some allegory for Jesus or something, he's an American symbol who led the country against the Nazis and racism back in the day.
kira64 That's exactly my point. One of the reasons why Superman is my favorite superhero is because he's portrayed as someone who doesn't succumb to the immense power he has, and goes insane as a result. I've read stories (such as Sentry and Irredeemable) that shows what happens when people not prepared are given this level of power (although according to sources, they're both even more powerful than Superman, about as powerful as Silver-Age Superman).
The biggest problem with the DCCU is that Snyder and everyone else involved in the films doesn't understand that Superman is just a decent guy who helps people out. That's all he is, take out all the other things about Superman and you just have a genuinely selfless guy from Kansas who only wants to help others
That Lois Lane Death from Injustice being done by the Joker which you guys made me remember is absolutely genius. Cause all it takes to make Superman go bad is one bad day. And now I'm remembering the killing joke and gasping for air. One bad day. Not only who did it, but what happened. Superman doesn't deserve that green lantern ring even though he wouldn't use it anyway anymore. It's like I'm starring into the face of god and all I see is horror, glorious geniusness and realization. Epiphany. I can't explain how this feels. It feels amazing, but I'm choking and staring into space. It's like that episode of South Park.
I saw the original Superman 1 and 2 recently. The introduction of Superman 1 is so much cooler when compared to how badly Man of Steel was made. Also I was surprised to see Superman take Zod's power away then murder him via cliff in 2. Even Lois gets in on the cliff murder.
8:25 My browser tab froze just as Liam paused so there was silence for like a whole minute before he said the Spear Thing and i wish i could share the experience with you all
Superman destroys the world because Lois dies, so what damage would he have done to mankind if she breaks up with him? Also he mentions that Batman took Lois from him, which again shows how little Snyder understands the source material. If he's going to use the Injustice storyline he might want to read a plot synopsis first, Superman breaks in that storyline because he is responsible for the death of Lois and his unborn son, it was not by Batman's hand that Lois died. Snyder must have ADD as he doesn't seem to be able to read and understand the most basic plot points of the story's he's trying to steal plot points from.
i feel like if you believe in jesus you would be mad at this movie, right now i am agnostic and i feel like old myself would be angry, like for fucks sakes they did it on THE JESUS WEEKEND
This movie is bad enough as it is, but as a Christian, it took every ounce of willpower in my body not to groan at all of the "subtle" Jesus imagery. The fact that this movie was released on Good Friday in the U.S. feels like the equivalent of a giant middle finger.
SHOOTERMAN253 Really? It felt like it had absolutely no purpose in the film, aside from to trick people that there's some kind of deeper meaning to everything that's happening, when in reality, there's nothing except what's on the surface.
+guantanamo bae "I'm worried this script might be too smart for audiences"-paraphrased from something someone said that worked on the movie maybe (2015-2016 or 20XX to be safe)
Of all the negative reviews/critiques of BvS floating around the internet, this one has the fewest dislikes, by far. *EDIT* Huh, four people saw my comment and decided to downvote. Even so, it's still fewer dislikes than most negative BvS reviews out there.
Because he's a terrible character and has never been good? For real, he could operate 2 tiers higher, however he decides to revel in shit tier. Level up son.
Justin Vance You should check out Peace on Earth, For All Seasons, Last Son of Krypton, Unchained, Kingdom Come, Superman: Beyond, Superman: Lois and Clark, Truth, Grant Morrison's New 52 run on Action Comics (issues #0-18) and Men of Tomorrow then. Heck, the Rebirth stuff has been pretty good so far, so check that out, too.
I thought that scene where Luthor was desecrating Zod's body, I really thought that this was going to the direction of creating Super Boy, Luthor mixing his genes with Zod's.
I'm glad I wasn't even aware of most of this when I saw the damn thing in an airplane ride heading home from a mission trip once, sleeping through maybe 20 minutes of it by accident...but hearing them so eloquently tear it apart and me agreeing with how stupid all the shit in it is makes me *_irrationally_* upset and angry, God fucking damn it, I'm so glad people mostly forgot for the most part about its existence...except only that I want them to know about it in order to not repeat its mistakes and to appreciate better examples in its contemporaries.
Liam talked about Nancy Grace and her body count . I'm not to familiar with her I just wanted to know what he meant and what's she's done to have a body count. I know she's a terrible person due to what she said about the ultimate warrior but I didn't know she had deaths on her conscience .
She has actively pushed people to suicide. People who've had terrible things happen to them, for example a woman whose son went missing, and another whose child died. Granted it was partially the woman's fault, she had gotten drunk and fallen asleep and her baby died while she was passed out, but Nancy Grace ridiculed and bashed both of them while persuading others to do so as well, and they both committed suicide as a result. She finds people who've had horrible misfortune, accidental result of their own actions or otherwise, and just tears them down until there's nothing left all for the sake of ratings.
This film is fucking stupid and I feel bad for people defending it because for every problem you can explain and for every legitimate good moment the film gives, there's ten fucking clusterfucks just ripping your soul's face off.
Batman not branding lex is him learning to be nicer again since meeting superman. The brand means they die (for some stupid reason) amd he's learned not to kill everyone as much since he was wrong about killing superman. Still kills lexs henchmen guarding Martha of course bit maybe it take a bit to learn :p
11:55 Assuming he couldn't make it into a gun for some reason, a spear is the greatest melee weapon in cost and range so that could explain the practicality of it beyond the symbolism. Again, only if he couldn't make it into a projectile for some reason.
My rage moment looking back is the deceptively edited trailer. Specifically the bath tub scene. In the trailer it cuts from Batfleck flirting with Diana to the tub scene, leading EVERYONE to believe it would be characters that somebody might actually care about would get it on in this film.
I like to think that if Pa Kent was to die, and Superman became Superman to make Pa Kent happy, it'd be because Pa Kent died specifically so that nobody would suspect Clark Kent of being Superman. After all, if Clark was Superman, wouldn't he save Pa Kent?
I never understood the hate for Man of Steel. I can get the hate for BvS, but not Man of Steel. At least he was Superman in that movie; he was a depressive punching bag in BvS.
He wasn't Superman in that movie, but a grim wannabe badass. Also the character of Pa Kent is IRREDEEMABLY BUTCHERED in that movie (and I ABSOLUTELY HATE Snyder for that), Zod's death scene was forced and the whole entire point of Superman is missed, HARD!!!!
He is referring to the Flash appearing before Batman and saying "Lois is the key". Bruce's presumably prophetic nightmare shows that he is in a city ruin, gets captured by an army, and is then killed by Superman. The entire sequence is a reference to Injustice. Barry's warning implies that Synder's Superman would also have gone nuts if anything bad ever happens to his girlfriend.
Why did Batman have a murder boner anyway? And why was Lex some punk ass kid with hair? And the same with Superman not being, like, Superman. It's fine to put your own spin on things, but these characters all felt so detached from the source materials. And I'm not even a huge DC fan.
Well, if they are saying Injustice Superman went bad via just the Lois scenario only, you have to understand, he was drugged into killing Lois and his unborn child, while as this is all happening, his home has been destroyed, nah the whole "One Bad Day" situation was justified in Injustice. Not saying that is the same is Batman v. Superman.
Yes but then Batman goes through more or less the same ordeals in injustice and is still a paragon of virtue even though he is not the most stable of the two
Their questions are kinda dumb in some moments, some were amazing Dumb ones were like "Why did lois wanted a weapon that can destroy superman when there's a supermonster out" -Its a weapon that can kill a god, she didnt know there'll be a supermonster thats why she threw it, the moment she saw a supermonster, she knew a godkiller weapon would help Good ones were like "Superman is just inconsistent, and every human are just retards or hypocrites in the movie" -Batman the most hypocritical character, dumb piece of shit written lex luthor and even dumb every news people blaming superman when he saved everyone from an alien with a bad haircut
she pretty much used her platform to harass at least two seperate people to kill themselves. she'd go up on t.v accusing them of being the killers of their dead children or something. one mother took her life, that's what he means. obviously she didn't give them a gun or kill them herself but when you lose a child/loved one and the most popular "crime" tv personality is telling america you killed them for like weeks and weeks on end, an already compromised mental state can def nose dive into suicide, and that's what happened.
DC does the same shit. Wally West (Kid Flash/3rd Flash) is black now and Wondy complained about 'mansplaining'. Both of the big 2 have been doing this pandering shit for 25 years and you'd know that if you read comics and not Kotaku articles about comics. My biggest "diversity" beef with Marvel is they push Carol "I'm so boring Grant Morrison couldn't make me interesting" Danvers as Captain Marvel when there was a black female Captain Marvel 25 years ago and she's a fucking badass. Monica Rambeau, look her up.
Also, Aqua Lad is now gay in the new Rebirth DC. So yeah, lot of people acting like Marvel is the only one who pulls off this diversity gender/race shit when DC does the same damn thing.
This comment doesn't make sense to me. Why does Zack Snyder have a pair? Because he's confident in making bad DC movies? Also, "black girl Iron Man" isn't in the cinematic universe currently, so again, I don't see how that has any ties to a conversation about Zack Snyder, who is a filmmaker, not a comic book artist. And I'd rather see a well-made movie with diversity than a dull and pretentious ass piece of garbage like these DC movies any day.
My perception of Supermans personality is that he's supposed to be so pure of heart that he could ride Goku's nimbus cloud. I don't see that when I see this version of Superman.
I always call superman a "Boy Scout".
This Superman would make Nimbus shrivel up and disappear if he came within 5 feet of it.
I fucking lost it at "non-lethal Bat Napalm"
Here's a fix to the Martha scene
Have Batman not kill at all during the movie.
Have him stick to the rule he's known best for- don't kill no matter what
And when Batman goes to kill Superman, He knows he's about to break his rule, but he tricks himself because, Superman is essentially a god. He's not human.
And when Superman says "Martha" he obviously has flashbacks.
He obviously screams "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!?!?!"
But it dawns on him.
Superman isn't as alien as Batman told himself that he is.
He's killing someone who has a mother, who he cares about, and who cares about him.
He realizes that if he kills Superman, and breaks his rule
He's no better than the guy who shot his parents in the alleyway
Of course that requires a director who actually gives a flying fuck about the source material
THANK YOU!!!
Even better, if Snyder is taking inspiration from Frank Miller's 'The Dark Knight Returns,' then Batman should NOT have been murdering criminals, but breaking their bones!
@@SemiJuggaloNumber2 He wasn't murdering them, the brand marked them but Luthor's hired garbage thugs did the killing. Batman is jaded as hell to their deaths, but he doesn't technically kill anyone directly. I know, that's a pretty big leap, but this is very much Batman being jaded and not caring as much about the rule because of the hopelessness of this new threat. It's a dark but understandable route for a human being to take in light of this plot.
Fan of high-top films?
@Heavy Metal Collector His batmobile literally mow's down 4 guys and burns several other alive with Thermite.
I can't tell you how many debates I had with Snyder dick riders. Likes it's a movie that I can turn my brain off to, but beyond that, and the sick armor Batman uses in his fight with Supes, there is nothing in this movie that is cohesive on purpose.
In a universe Batman has no problem at all in killing people, including very small time criminals, why in the love of f*ck would the joker even be alive?
Better yet, why would the joker ever come to be in this world when Batman kills basically any criminal
Batman chose a kryptonite spear because Alfred said a kryptonite battleaxe would be stupid. Super embarrassed, Bats redid the design.
"How do you use a spear?"
"You THROW it!"
I don't know why this part makes me laugh.
Because it's super obvious and you almost expect the question to happen sooner, and the answer comes out in a way that reflects that.
No its “hide behind a tower shield and poke the closest thing resembling a hollow” until its torso jizzes on you and you get money to upgrade that same spear.
Superman: “Is she with you?”
Batman, who is the reason Wonder Woman showed up in the first place: “I thought she was with you.”
Shoulda been in the movie:
Wonder Woman: Bitches! I'm right here! We gonna kill that thing, or are you two done throwing a hissy fit?
Paragon Josh Wonder Woman showed up because of Doomsday, not Batman.
zhengyingli Yeah but Batman was the reason she came back to superhero work
In many ways Batman beat Superman a long time ago... *Nobody knows how to do Superman anymore*
Have Hope... He will return...
#troofhurtz
"Hes a boyscout right?"
Actually hes-
"Right right, just have him jump around, and smush stuff, I dunno! Just get me pictures of SuperSpiderMan! Hes a menace to society!"
I’m gonna force Zach Snyder to read all star Superman, this is how you do it
@@crimsondynamo615
All Star Superman is always the quickest answer, I think any good Supes story can make him more nuanced, All Star Superman is him at his best and we've already seen that kind of Superman that on the screen. We deserve a more interesting Clark Kent without resorting to make him a angsty super murderer.
I lost my shit at "yeah, this is jesus, and he's the devil"
Did you get it, tho. Superman is Jesus. Did you get it?
BLACKIESBOY aw dude, i think i missed that. it was so subtle!
Abigail English THE SUBTLETY IS GETTING ME SO SUBTLE IN MY TROUSERS
+Abigail English SＯＳUＢTＬE
@@EmpressTiffanyOfBrittany i have the biggest crush on u
When I was 2 I was amazed when I found out that a Thomas The Tank Engine character had the same name as me...... Batman is mentally 2 years old..
That’s also the name of Batman’s dad (I’m not joking)
Batman: Thomas, *WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!*
@Heavy Metal Collector "Bruce you are the bane of my-"
*WHERE IS HE!?*
@Heavy Metal Collector I'm lost on the alfredo part.
Non lethal Bat-Napalm.
Military Grade Fully Automatic Bat-Arms
...Superman did not say a single word to Wonder Woman...
Holy shit, that legit knocks this movie down a good couple of notches
Like, a lot of notches
Holy fucking shit, are you serious?
Inaccurate. Wonder Woman questions where Doomsday came from and Superman replies that it's from another world. Doesn't make it much better since its one single line but it's there.
He doesn't even ask who the fuck she is though. Random lady appears with powers that are pretty similar to his own, all he says is "yo Bruce is that yours?" "Nah homie I thought she was yo bitch." "Aight." And then they move on. By the time Superman "died", he didn't even know her name. If he had had to call out to her in battle, he wouldn't have been able to say anything other than "hey, you." It's fucking baffling.
Yeah i guess he should sit down and have tea not like a being almost 2x his strength is fighting right in front of him. Im sure doomsday will wait. Lot of pulling to get so many dislikes for the movie. Not a fan or anything but so much of their and your nitpicks for why its the worst movie EVA can be explained by thinking a bit. People yell why do movies talk down and explain everything. Movies leave some obvious things to you for figuring out. WHHHAAY didnt they explain how he got here where did why didnt she powers did this etc. Most of the nitpicks super best friends say can be explained. Movie is bad or not great cause the overall story is weak and storytelling and pacing was poor but this was a first for batman and superman actually fighting like the cartoons.
Can't wait for Day Of Justice to open Easter 2018 with a scene of Superman pushing a boulder out of the way and flying into the sky.
I'm still holding out hope that someone will steal the reigns from Snyder, turn the current DC Cinematic Universe into the Justice Lords universe, and have the real Justice League show up through a portal and be like "What the fuck is this?"
Well their half way there. Warner bros. took their the keys from Snyder and his henchmen and gave them to Affleck. Snyder's name may be on the box but he's not in charge anymore. Affleck is.
I vote Grant Morrison, Mark Waid or Geoff Johns.
+NinjaRed5000 Mark Waid is too busy making the greatest Daredevil and Black Widow runs ever.
That and writing a shitty Champions book. I am hyped for Generations, though. Looks like one of the only decent shit Marvel will do post-Secret Wars.
That, or infinite crisis.
Why would Superman call his mom by her first name? Why wouldn't he just call her "Mom" or "Mother"?
Because he didn't want Batman to know he's Clark Kent or something? Maybe?
Can't get forced melodrama that way, though!
Dan(from game grumps) calls his parents by their first name, maybe Dan is a Kryptonian?
Some folks have defended "Martha", saying that rather than everything hinging on a stupid coincidence, or Batman's Mommy issues, it was meant to show Batman realising that Superman was actually raised on Earth, by a human family, rather than just some alien who just turned up.
That would be like if some right-wing skin-head was to kick the shit out of some Arabic-looking dude, then relented because the Arabic dude said "Hey man, I'm from Arkansas!". That doesn't make the skin-head a hero! Nor does it make the Arabic dude "safe" because he's actually from the US.
And Supe's human parents hate him.
It genuinely makes me upset when people try to justify this stupid fucking plot point.
I understand what Snyder was going for - and he was going for was fucking stupid.
every time i hear pat saying he hates superman for me he is the perfect lex luthor
Snyder and DC just need to listen to these 28 minutes to show how hard they fucked up.
Not all of there critiques are accurate though.
nickreilly72 Responding and disagreeing in a mature way isnt being super butt hurt at all. but way to show how extremely immature you are lmao xD
I´m the only who think that all of this movie problems could be solved with a Bat-credit card?
Couldn't have made it much dumber... :\
Never leave the cave without it.
To be fair, even comic book Batman is put on tilt when you mention his parents. Sometimes it makes him cry, other times he just pauses, but it always affects him. That has always been a thing with him.
Not to the ludicrous extent in BvS, though; Batman at his worst in the 00's became the 'MY PARENTS ARE DEEEADDD!' meme, Batman at his best should just use them and himself as an example of why he does what he does; someone mumbling 'M--m-mur-Martha' at him is just.. What? Like, why is Superman even referring to his mother on a first name basis?
the problem with that is that should not affect his decision to kill superman. it’s a coincidence at best not a reason to not go though with spearing superman.
I agree, given the extremes Batman goes to; I understand thematically that he sees Superman as being dangerous in the same light as Lex does and only learns too late that it's not the case, but Batman here is so far over the line that learning that this supposed alien is as 'human' as him should just prompt the response of shivving him anyway. Human life is not particularly precious to this shitshow take on the character.
Batman v Superman makes Man of Steel look like a masterpiece in comparison.
Right? At least MOS had Michael Shannon chewing on scenery and that hot kryptonian girl whose name I just forgot.
Faora-Ul. =3
Hot Krypto Gurl, got ya .3.b
And what kills this movie even more, is that Wonder Woman is introduced here, instead of her upcoming solo movie. Which is fucking stupid and made her impact in BvS even less than it already is.
plus her intro was "HEY IM HEAR NOW and you're only gonna say a single line to me the whole time"
Superman should be Mosses not Jesus.
+jamg25 Insert Steven Universe clip of Steven saying "I KNOW RIGHT?!"
Yeah about the injustice thing, yeah that's dumb.
THAT far. So far across the edge, it's ridiculous.
Like I always compare Injustice Superman to Justice Lords Superman from the Justice League animated series.
Flash is publicly executed by Lex Luthor, who became president. Superman then kills Lex Luthor in anger. And instead of just killing everyone that crosses him, the Justice League just become a dictatorship and just control everything, or attempt too. Stepping out of line doesn't get you killed though. (He did however lobotomise both Doomsday and Joker however)
Anyway, I don't think one death pushes Superman so far over the edge like that. It'll push him yeah, but not as far as Injustice.
I mean it wasn't just lois lane. it was lois, his unborn child, and all of metropolis. like that's alot of deaths.
In this one comic Manchester Black used his psychic powers to make Superman think he murdered Lois expecting Superman to kill him, however Superman said that he would bury Lois and take Black to prison. At this point Black realized that he had become the villain and revealed that Lois was actually fine and then Black killed himself.
In the case of Injustice, it always struck me less as "Lois is dead, my moral lynchpin is gone, I'm going to kill everyone" and more "I'm going to take over the world so I can protect it, because doing things the old way saw me lose everything I care for." Then the actual conflicts that naturally arise from doing that (world governments saying 'no' would inevitably lead to Superman fighting and killing normal people to take them over, which would just escalate things further) just hardened him and made him a ruthless dictator. That and the Injustice universe does go to show that not everyone is exactly the same personality-wise as they are in the baseline universe (goodguy Lex being the stand out), so it makes it a little bit more believable for me.
WoobooRidesAgain What you said is exactly what happens in the prequel comics for Injustice. Lois and his city dying wasn't just the main reason, it was the fact that letting people with too much power roam free or simply be arrested wasn't working in his eyes, at least not anymore. After killing the Joker, he felt bad about it, but once seeing how things in Gotham got less fucked up as a result, he saw what the rest of the world was like, and decided to step in and call out EVERYONE who did terrible shit, including governments. He still tries not to kill people, but as time goes by, he becomes more ruthless and merciless. Though, to be fair, Batman did tons of shit that drove him there. Literally no one in the Injustice universe is right at all. It's like being a dick is part of their DNA.
The entire problem with Superman in these movies is that Zack Snyder made such a big fucking deal about Superman killing Zod. Everybody was fucking fine with it. Zod was a crazy asshole who wasn't gonna stop. It's fine to kill if it means saving an innocent person's life, especially when it's crazy smug assholes like Zod.
It's not like he's going Punisher or something. The Punisher actively goes out to deprive criminals their due process, or at least when he's supposed to be an asshole. Superman killed ONE. FUCKING. GUY.
And in fact, even worse, he ONLY CARES ABOUT ZOD. God knows how many people he killed fighting Zod!
MAN OF STEEL IS SO BAD.
According to US culture there is zero moral quandary with killing Zod in that situation.
You mean a crazy genocidal alien I am trying to restrain is trying to roast some people with his laser eyes RIGHT NOW and absolutely refuses to stop trying to roast people even though I keep telling him to stop? Snap his neck, save innocent lives.
If Zod was helpless and restrained it would be a different story, but he wasn't.
In Man of Steel, Superman is constantly choosing to hurt people for a greater good (he fucking burns Lois with his laser eyes instead of using any of his other bazillion powers to stop her bleeding). Flipping around in the next film and treating it like a bad thing without actually challenging that morality is dumb.
This is why I appreciate One Punch Man quite a lot. OPM is the best Superman Archetype that I have seen in a while. He's up there with people like Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star, or Thor, or Shazam. He's quite similar to Shazam, actually, because he has an unconventional non-superhero life compared to other heroes. Saitama is a lay-about without a real job until he becomes a part time hero, and Shazam is 12 years old outside of his super hero time.
I thought the struggle in killing Zod is the about Superman's identity crisis, where he couldn't decide to blend in or be the god among men, the two opposing ideas that came from his two dead fathers. And when Zod shows up it's like, "Hey it's people of my kind! Oh wait they are such douchebags, and now I have to kill the last of my people to save humans who will never accept who I truely am." So that didn't give me much of a problem. Overall I kinda liked Man of Steel, as it's own thing and not a prequel to BvS. Also I just don't understand why Superman has to be Jesus.
I hate the ending of this movie, solely because Superman comes back to life. It's not even because it's Superman. I just hate when characters die and come back to life for no reason.
Not to mention it completely defeats the purpose of killing Superman, altogether. Hell, that isn't even going into the fact that shoehorning Superman's death into this movie wasn't earned in the slightest.
SemiJuggalo I just hate resurrecting characters for no reason with no real, decent explanation.
I know, I have the exact same problem with Star Trek Into Darkness' ending.
Honestly, Superman's death should be like Steel Ball Run: pieces of his battered corpse end up in multiple places around the world, and those who claim them gain his power, making it a race for the other Justice League members to secure the parts or destroy them before someone else claims them.
That is how the death of Superman should be handled if it is to be taken as a serious plot point. None of this "oh he's fine, we put dramatic emphasis on his death for no fucking reason" bullshit!
They're making him Jesus Goku.
I don't like how media outside of comics like to really play up the Messianic overtones with Superman. It very rarely happens in the comics themselves, and when its done in movies or shows it comes off as pretty pretentious. The only shows to my knowledge that don't do this are Superman TAS and Justice League TAS. I'm pretty glad that Snyder is no longer in charge of the DC Cinematic Universe and Affleck is now in charge, though personally I kinda wish they would get good DC writers to help out, like Grant Morrison, Geoff Johns, and/or Mark Waid
That's a really good point. I hate how Superman is treated like this alien messiah instead of just this guy who genuinely wants to use his powers for good-a literal boyscout. And it's just in the movies, making it really annoying-putting it under the guise of being "realistic". Superman isn't supposed to be some allegory for Jesus or something, he's an American symbol who led the country against the Nazis and racism back in the day.
kira64 That's exactly my point. One of the reasons why Superman is my favorite superhero is because he's portrayed as someone who doesn't succumb to the immense power he has, and goes insane as a result. I've read stories (such as Sentry and Irredeemable) that shows what happens when people not prepared are given this level of power (although according to sources, they're both even more powerful than Superman, about as powerful as Silver-Age Superman).
The biggest problem with the DCCU is that Snyder and everyone else involved in the films doesn't understand that Superman is just a decent guy who helps people out. That's all he is, take out all the other things about Superman and you just have a genuinely selfless guy from Kansas who only wants to help others
They want to be gritty and dark about it, because that's all DC is to people these days.
Dude Justice League/Unlimited was great. It was serious but knew how to have fun.
That Lois Lane Death from Injustice being done by the Joker which you guys made me remember is absolutely genius. Cause all it takes to make Superman go bad is one bad day. And now I'm remembering the killing joke and gasping for air. One bad day. Not only who did it, but what happened. Superman doesn't deserve that green lantern ring even though he wouldn't use it anyway anymore. It's like I'm starring into the face of god and all I see is horror, glorious geniusness and realization. Epiphany. I can't explain how this feels. It feels amazing, but I'm choking and staring into space. It's like that episode of South Park.
in the injustice comic, everyone shits their pants when they see superman doing some genocide, he earns the yellow ring
Read Kingdom Come.
I saw the original Superman 1 and 2 recently. The introduction of Superman 1 is so much cooler when compared to how badly Man of Steel was made. Also I was surprised to see Superman take Zod's power away then murder him via cliff in 2. Even Lois gets in on the cliff murder.
Best part is when superman goes back to a diner to kick some shmucks ass that beat him up when he was human
8:25 My browser tab froze just as Liam paused so there was silence for like a whole minute before he said the Spear Thing and i wish i could share the experience with you all
Superman destroys the world because Lois dies, so what damage would he have done to mankind if she breaks up with him?
Also he mentions that Batman took Lois from him, which again shows how little Snyder understands the source material. If he's going to use the Injustice storyline he might want to read a plot synopsis first, Superman breaks in that storyline because he is responsible for the death of Lois and his unborn son, it was not by Batman's hand that Lois died.
Snyder must have ADD as he doesn't seem to be able to read and understand the most basic plot points of the story's he's trying to steal plot points from.
i feel like if you believe in jesus you would be mad at this movie, right now i am agnostic and i feel like old myself would be angry, like for fucks sakes they did it on THE JESUS WEEKEND
This movie is bad enough as it is, but as a Christian, it took every ounce of willpower in my body not to groan at all of the "subtle" Jesus imagery. The fact that this movie was released on Good Friday in the U.S. feels like the equivalent of a giant middle finger.
I'm a Christian and I thought the Jesus imagery and man vs God angle was actually fun and interesting.
SHOOTERMAN253 Really? It felt like it had absolutely no purpose in the film, aside from to trick people that there's some kind of deeper meaning to everything that's happening, when in reality, there's nothing except what's on the surface.
+guantanamo bae "I'm worried this script might be too smart for audiences"-paraphrased from something someone said that worked on the movie maybe (2015-2016 or 20XX to be safe)
Of all the negative reviews/critiques of BvS floating around the internet, this one has the fewest dislikes, by far.
*EDIT* Huh, four people saw my comment and decided to downvote. Even so, it's still fewer dislikes than most negative BvS reviews out there.
Not anymore.
it was good while it lasted.
One is only the second most fewest every tho.
25:51 Gog, I lost it when Woolie said that.
"Non lethal Bat-Napalm" fucking killed me.
Superman is both jesus and osama bin laden.
I absolutely loathe the fact people are saying those movies are masterpieces now
Snyder is the living manifestation of the dunning-kruger effect.
I remember thinking Cyborg was Red Tornado.
How can anyone NOT write Superman good anymore?
i heard All Star Superman is pretty good
All Star Superman was at least one decade ago, hardly "now". One trip to wikipedia confirms it; it started on 2005 and ended on 2008.
Because he's a terrible character and has never been good? For real, he could operate 2 tiers higher, however he decides to revel in shit tier. Level up son.
Other than All star, death of, and red sun i'd say he's never been written that well alone. He's only ever been passable. My opinion of course.
Justin Vance You should check out Peace on Earth, For All Seasons, Last Son of Krypton, Unchained, Kingdom Come, Superman: Beyond, Superman: Lois and Clark, Truth, Grant Morrison's New 52 run on Action Comics (issues #0-18) and Men of Tomorrow then. Heck, the Rebirth stuff has been pretty good so far, so check that out, too.
why is Batman using a spear harpoon?!
because the reference to Moby Dick ISN'T strong enough.
HowManyTimes234 Alfred! Get the bat peg leg!
I thought that scene where Luthor was desecrating Zod's body, I really thought that this was going to the direction of creating Super Boy, Luthor mixing his genes with Zod's.
1:31 Woolie fucking predicted the Snyder Cut trailer in 2016 wtf
Superman looked miserable because he was. If you watch man of steel, he doesn't really want to do that Stuff. He feels like he has to.
"it's his mommy!"
Metropolis and Gotham have always been right across the river from each other. Metropolis is supposed to be NYC and Gotham is Newark.
I'm glad I wasn't even aware of most of this when I saw the damn thing in an airplane ride heading home from a mission trip once, sleeping through maybe 20 minutes of it by accident...but hearing them so eloquently tear it apart and me agreeing with how stupid all the shit in it is makes me *_irrationally_* upset and angry, God fucking damn it, I'm so glad people mostly forgot for the most part about its existence...except only that I want them to know about it in order to not repeat its mistakes and to appreciate better examples in its contemporaries.
Superman should have known about Batman just by hearing “ITS BATMAN!” (Gunshots and a dozen bones turning to powder)
Liam talked about Nancy Grace and her body count . I'm not to familiar with her I just wanted to know what he meant and what's she's done to have a body count. I know she's a terrible person due to what she said about the ultimate warrior but I didn't know she had deaths on her conscience .
She has actively pushed people to suicide. People who've had terrible things happen to them, for example a woman whose son went missing, and another whose child died. Granted it was partially the woman's fault, she had gotten drunk and fallen asleep and her baby died while she was passed out, but Nancy Grace ridiculed and bashed both of them while persuading others to do so as well, and they both committed suicide as a result. She finds people who've had horrible misfortune, accidental result of their own actions or otherwise, and just tears them down until there's nothing left all for the sake of ratings.
logandh2 Jesus Christ that's terrible, she really is a real piece of shit. Thanks for telling me
This was a different time back then, wasn't it?
This film is fucking stupid and I feel bad for people defending it because for every problem you can explain and for every legitimate good moment the film gives, there's ten fucking clusterfucks just ripping your soul's face off.
I also burst out laughing with the flying bats
it's hilarious that they were going "you know who has a bodycount? alfred" like alfred hasn't been one of the most lethal members of the Wayne family
Batman not branding lex is him learning to be nicer again since meeting superman. The brand means they die (for some stupid reason) amd he's learned not to kill everyone as much since he was wrong about killing superman. Still kills lexs henchmen guarding Martha of course bit maybe it take a bit to learn :p
11:55 Assuming he couldn't make it into a gun for some reason, a spear is the greatest melee weapon in cost and range so that could explain the practicality of it beyond the symbolism. Again, only if he couldn't make it into a projectile for some reason.
when pat was yelling about batman at 5:00 i swear it sounded like keemstar complaining about hate
Tourguide nixon loves the batman!
My rage moment looking back is the deceptively edited trailer. Specifically the bath tub scene. In the trailer it cuts from Batfleck flirting with Diana to the tub scene, leading EVERYONE to believe it would be characters that somebody might actually care about would get it on in this film.
I like to think that if Pa Kent was to die, and Superman became Superman to make Pa Kent happy, it'd be because Pa Kent died specifically so that nobody would suspect Clark Kent of being Superman.
After all, if Clark was Superman, wouldn't he save Pa Kent?
With how Pat wants all forms of comics to conform to one style, this segment has me convinced he's part of the Anti-Spiral
best part right here 12:17
MARTHA THO
*Sings the 30 plus people getting pissed off things song*
As Jesus rose on the third day, Superman rose on the third movie.
I miss leelam
Oh god this movie is so fucking bad. Maybe I should just make a review for it on my channel and get it all out of my system.
DO ET
I never understood the hate for Man of Steel. I can get the hate for BvS, but not Man of Steel. At least he was Superman in that movie; he was a depressive punching bag in BvS.
He wasn't Superman in that movie, but a grim wannabe badass. Also the character of Pa Kent is IRREDEEMABLY BUTCHERED in that movie (and I ABSOLUTELY HATE Snyder for that), Zod's death scene was forced and the whole entire point of Superman is missed, HARD!!!!
16:15 That’s Injustice, Pat you are wrong.
He is referring to the Flash appearing before Batman and saying "Lois is the key". Bruce's presumably prophetic nightmare shows that he is in a city ruin, gets captured by an army, and is then killed by Superman. The entire sequence is a reference to Injustice. Barry's warning implies that Synder's Superman would also have gone nuts if anything bad ever happens to his girlfriend.
Liam's about to get political
13:02 This is the part that Pat is talking about. th-cam.com/video/FlyUAaa0qT4/w-d-xo.html
I agree that BvS is really bad but for almost completely different reasons than the best friends.
What did you dislike about it?
Eh I liked the ultimate edition
Could I request the time Matt reads Spiderman and tells Pat about it? Its the pie ad one. I think its in #137.
Enigma14 oh god, you mean the one where spider man beats the villain by giving them a fucking hostess pie
Why did Batman have a murder boner anyway? And why was Lex some punk ass kid with hair? And the same with Superman not being, like, Superman. It's fine to put your own spin on things, but these characters all felt so detached from the source materials. And I'm not even a huge DC fan.
all the *read more* are super long in this comment section.
Marthuuuuuh!
Dos they talk about Wonder Woman?
You throw it...?
Zac Snyder disliked this video
"Non-lethal Bat Napalm" killed me like how lethal non-bat napalm killed in Vietnam.
Ben Man vs Super Mon
dc only has good animated movies nowadays fuck the live action shit well except Flash and Arrow as far as i know....
spoil my ass raw
Well, if they are saying Injustice Superman went bad via just the Lois scenario only, you have to understand, he was drugged into killing Lois and his unborn child, while as this is all happening, his home has been destroyed, nah the whole "One Bad Day" situation was justified in Injustice. Not saying that is the same is Batman v. Superman.
Yes but then Batman goes through more or less the same ordeals in injustice and is still a paragon of virtue even though he is not the most stable of the two
@@alucardyoici except he doesn't. What are you talking about?
Bottom line is the movie sucked ass
After all this time I always go back to, if I'm on the same page as Pat AND Liam, I'm right.
movie was eh.
Their questions are kinda dumb in some moments, some were amazing
Dumb ones were like
"Why did lois wanted a weapon that can destroy superman when there's a supermonster out"
-Its a weapon that can kill a god, she didnt know there'll be a supermonster thats why she threw it, the moment she saw a supermonster, she knew a godkiller weapon would help
Good ones were like
"Superman is just inconsistent, and every human are just retards or hypocrites in the movie"
-Batman the most hypocritical character, dumb piece of shit written lex luthor and even dumb every news people blaming superman when he saved everyone from an alien with a bad haircut
5 years later i still have no idea what liam means by 'nancy grace has a body count'
How
she pretty much used her platform to harass at least two seperate people to kill themselves.
she'd go up on t.v accusing them of being the killers of their dead children or something. one mother took her life, that's what he means. obviously she didn't give them a gun or kill them herself but when you lose a child/loved one and the most popular "crime" tv personality is telling america you killed them for like weeks and weeks on end, an already compromised mental state can def nose dive into suicide, and that's what happened.
at least zack snyder has a pair, unlike the entirety of marvel with hydra cap and black girl iron man.
DC does the same shit. Wally West (Kid Flash/3rd Flash) is black now and Wondy complained about 'mansplaining'. Both of the big 2 have been doing this pandering shit for 25 years and you'd know that if you read comics and not Kotaku articles about comics. My biggest "diversity" beef with Marvel is they push Carol "I'm so boring Grant Morrison couldn't make me interesting" Danvers as Captain Marvel when there was a black female Captain Marvel 25 years ago and she's a fucking badass. Monica Rambeau, look her up.
Also, Aqua Lad is now gay in the new Rebirth DC. So yeah, lot of people acting like Marvel is the only one who pulls off this diversity gender/race shit when DC does the same damn thing.
This comment doesn't make sense to me. Why does Zack Snyder have a pair? Because he's confident in making bad DC movies? Also, "black girl Iron Man" isn't in the cinematic universe currently, so again, I don't see how that has any ties to a conversation about Zack Snyder, who is a filmmaker, not a comic book artist.
And I'd rather see a well-made movie with diversity than a dull and pretentious ass piece of garbage like these DC movies any day.