Enjoyed this, really enhances my love for FF7. Looking forward to the next episode. Some discussions around theories, mythology and philosophy between ProfNoctis, BabySeal, MJ Gallagher, Final Fantasy Peasant and Max Dood would be awesome!
Vibing to this podcast is like being a fly on the wall, listening to super heroes talk about their experiences saving the world. I can't even believe this is a real thing. Gush over. I have too many things I want to say to compact it into a meaningful comment. So I'll just say thank you. 🙏
As someone who plays VERY casually it’s always so interesting to hear people talk about theories and interpretations. Great talk guys! Can’t wait for the next one.
So Wade, I actually cracked the plot. This is the Prophet of Doom. Appreciate you supporting Husky. Nomura didn't retcon the story with plot ghosts. He simply hid in plain sight that the setting is a dream. In OG, when you enter Nibelheim with Tifa, ONLY when Tifa is there, does anyone ask if their memory of the town burning "was a dream." The same question is in Zangan's letter, which we shouldn't have ignored as a figure of speech. So no, Sephiroth didn't cause supernovas in the final battle -- the often-cited reason why Seph fans think he could beat Doomguy. That was Nomura's way of showing us that everything was a VR dream, even Sephiroth's attacks. VR is so easy that even Shinra can do it. The Cetra left VR in the Temple. Everyone was VR kung-fu fighting except Doomguy. Two clues in Rebirth reveal what the "multiverse" actually is. Johnny's clones foreshadow it, but we see Johnny in both Zack's and Cloud's worlds. And he's not the only one. Kyrie too. Red too for a moment. Sure we see the bodies of Barrett and Tifa, but we can't tell if they're separate beings like with Johnny and Kyrie. Jenova's not the only one in need of Reunion. Everyone's psyche is split, with parts of their subconscious dreaming separate lives, such as Zack's three choices, each of which represents an aspect of his Freudian subconscious (id) desires. Omni Aerith in the final battle even spoils this by noting Seph's world represented his loneliness, his strong desire from his own id. As Barret blabs in the play, he believes love is an illusion. The Cetra psychically imprisoned Jenova, along with the entire planet. And yes, "id" the company created Doomguy. Sure there are more unexplained physics going on here, but Freudian reasoning consistently explains why these dreams come from the dreamer. So...see Aerith glowing green when talking to Seph in the Temple, with two voices: her and Omni? See Aerith glowing green in the Forgotten Capital with one voice, Omni? Not dead. Notice she thanked Cloud for protecting her with unusual wording, as though it was important but wasn't her life. No one needs to protect Cloud from "mental collapse", because Jenova's exact mechanism of action is manipulating Cloud's ID, not direct mind control. She hasn't "collapsed" anyone. Her deceptiveness would be unnecessary had she such power. Aerith had prepped the party to use Reason, as Freud says normally regulates the ID's unreasonable desires, to handle Cloud at the Temple. That's exactly what Barret did. So, Aerith is alive. Once the Ultimania confirmed the Ora/Watashi distinction in fine detail, the fan base became certain Jenova poses as Seph (and now Glenn) everywhere. There is no longer room to argue that Aerith died. Seph and Jenova swapped places, end of story. Seph can push Cloud back, Cloud can push Jenova back. You need to read a couple Lovecraftian stories to understand FF7 and DOOM are intertwined in their origins and future. The Transition of Juan Romero -- John Romero is a DOOM founder -- has a guy summoned to Reunion from hearing a (Jenova) heartbeat drum and chanting, crossing into the abyss, dying in a dream and therefore in real life. (Gold Saucer play) (Lovecraftian Ancient God) Varvados tells the protagonist "Thou goest to DOOM", referring to the same abyss. Cloud tells Barret he consigns him to the abyss...to DOOM. The Invaders: evil single-eyed alien beholders with the "gaze of the Midgard Serpent" who escape their prison to resume invasion/transfiguration of Earth, because a protagonist used cult alchemy to experience memories/dreams from past lives. And if you pay attention to matching dialogue like "the people accepted dependency on the mako/argent energy", you can tell these authors have definitely colluded, not just borrowed from the same source. Jenova is the (devil) ID, whereas Minerva is the (angel) superego, or "righteous anger" as Cloud was hugged by fake Seph: both Freudian subconsciouses, meaning from the same person. We actually see the angel in front of Jenova's Nibelheim test tube as well as the entrance to the mansion and Cetra VR -- *after* being defeated by the Cetra. So at some point, she appeared that way to Shinra. Notice both built empires, Jenova having the Norse Midgar, and Minerva having the (Roman) Junon and the (obviously Romanesque architecture) Church. Notice the empires went through a Reunion too, with the dark half taking control, just as in history. This symbolizes where the plot is going. And yes, Cloud must be packing Minerva's power or psyche for Jenova to be so determined to control him. Minerva in Roman mythology was born in full armor exploding out of her father's head for killing her mom. The only way this ends...is with Doomguy. Questions and comments?
This is a lot to digest, and it feels like 3 different essays to me. Even so, I’ll try to respond. First, I’m not too familiar with Doom lore. It’s an interesting comparison but I doubt there’s overlap beyond that. I don’t have much else to add there, but it’s neat. Next, the stuff with so-called Omni-Aerith is interesting but I want to know what people mean when they use this phrase. Is it the consciousness of Aerith who exists in the lifestream, almost like the goddess who travels through the lifestream and inserts herself at certain moments? I don’t hate the idea. And it makes for interesting narrative possibilities. The idea of Ori-Sephiroth needs to be better explained in game. It’s neat in ultimanias but ultimately useless if it isn’t reinforced in the game itself. Finally, the VR stuff is also interesting but I’m not sure what to do with that. I love the Freud stuff though. Very cool assessment. Thanks for the comment, and I apologize I can’t contribute further.
@@profnoctis Sorry yeah it's a lot to wrap our heads around. Take your time. I wish Nomura hadn't made the story this difficult to grasp. But here we are: a psychic warfare battleground. By Omni-Aerith, I mean the "whole" Aerith back in Prime, the real living world, where the undamaged Midgar seen in the singularity actually is. Ore Seph has done a couple uh female things, such as hugging Cloud...taking a very ladylike step at the Forgotten Capital after faking Aerith's death. And we have Gilgamesh: "ladies who dress like men." You will never see the truth with such clouded eyes. There are plenty of story onion layers left to peel back. Just try.
For me the best part of VII has always been the real life lessons. Most of all what we learn about Cloud in the memory sequence and the importance of memories shared. Hearing you guys talk about your own experiences and being able to compare fiction to reality is great. By doing this one can put themself in a characters shoes and into situations that they would never be in, and from that often comes a fun form of learning and self-exploration. I'd call this the second best part of fiction. The best part for me, however, is the entertainment, just being on this journey, and trying to crack the mystery of what in the world (or worlds) is going to happen. On the last video of yours I made a guess of the other worlds being the Lifestream power that collides with Meteor. A big question I have is what form will these worlds be in by the conclusion? Will this 'final reunion' happen during the ending or will it happen during the memory sequence? I feel like prediction can vary depending on interpretation. From a medical stand point, it might appear that the Planet itself now has Cloud's mental illness. Could these worlds actually merge as Cloud sorts out his thoughts, resulting in Aerith's realities reverting to a more visceral Lifestream state resembling that which Tifa experienced in Chapter 9 of Rebirth, or the one we saw in 'Maiden Who Travels the Planet?' Consider how the human body fights off a virus. Once the body is through the worst part, it heals back stronger to fight off the problem. If the Planet and Cloud's mentality are tied, wouldn't a mentally sorted out Lifestream prioritize itself against Sephiroth? Imagine a Lifestream with very focused and obsessed preparation.
@@profnoctis I love to provide brain fuel! If there was one line from OG I always remember, it was when Cid compared the Planet to a scared child in space.
@@profnoctis Sorry, yes. I was under the impression that the subject was making sense of rebirth, but much of the episode felt more like an interview getting to know SBS. I wanted more discussion about the game and less about the person and his relationship to the game.
@@duquin yeah, part 2 is what gets at that specific stuff! We kinda sensed that tension, and while we always want to highlight the creators behind the content, we are trying to do it in a more streamlined way. Instead of just doing a nearly 3 hour episode, we just broke this one up into 2. But for the remainder, the origin story stuff will be a lot more concise! Thanks for the suggestion. Hope you enjoy part 2!
Me after playing Rebirth: Give me Part Three!!!
Me after watching this: Give me Episode Two!!!
Canon experience
Enjoyed this, really enhances my love for FF7. Looking forward to the next episode. Some discussions around theories, mythology and philosophy between ProfNoctis, BabySeal, MJ Gallagher, Final Fantasy Peasant and Max Dood would be awesome!
That would be awesome wouldn’t it? I don’t know the other two well, but they’d be fun to talk to
Great episode!
Thanks man! Looking forward to your turn! :)
Looking forward to this, thank you, Clarke, Evan, and Wade!
@@williamwhite6502 enjoy!😊
Amazing interview thank you for bringing this to us.
Thanks for watching! Stay tuned- part 2 drops in 4 hours!
One of my favorite videos from the channel. Awesome! 👏
@@ZAquadix thanks so much! All I can say is, buckle up 😎
Vibing to this podcast is like being a fly on the wall, listening to super heroes talk about their experiences saving the world.
I can't even believe this is a real thing.
Gush over. I have too many things I want to say to compact it into a meaningful comment. So I'll just say thank you. 🙏
Thank YOU. I appreciate you taking the time to listen so, so much
Great talk, I'll get into part 2 tomorrow.
Thanks for your time.
Thanks for watching!
This is such an inspirational conversation! 💯🥳 massive appreciation to all involved 🙏
🙌
THEME SONG!!! Love it!
Great conversation. Thanks guys!
@@malpercio123 thanks for watching! Be sure to check out part 2 next week to FULLY kick off the series
Phenom of an interview. Thank you 🙏
Thanks, Dream. I appreciate you!
always a great discussion!
@@premsarin9866 thanks for watching!
Gosh, you ought to get him down to 'Bama as a commencement speaker or something. Great talk! 👏
He’d be great wouldn’t he
I can't inject this into my eyeballs fast enough
@@m.j.gallagher6756 careful. You’ll need those eyeballs for 12 more weeks 😂
@@profnoctis that's the sexiest thing anyone's ever said to me
That hour just FLEW BY! On to Part 2
@@empty_melodies enjoy! You’re gonna love it
My two favorite FF creators, this gon be good!
@@KnippzYT enjoy!
Hi Kupos ❤️ thank you very much for doing ❤❤❤
you're welcome. Enjoy!
As someone who plays VERY casually it’s always so interesting to hear people talk about theories and interpretations. Great talk guys! Can’t wait for the next one.
I’m so glad you enjoyed it. You’re gonna love the future installments
Profnoctis got those bright as heck mako eyes going on 😂 he looks like a video game character. Looking forward to the show just started it 😂 o/
@@alchalant4663 re….un…ion….
lol this is my favorite comment
Hi, I am a student at UA and i believe i happened to see you on campus
Come say hi next time!
So Wade, I actually cracked the plot. This is the Prophet of Doom. Appreciate you supporting Husky.
Nomura didn't retcon the story with plot ghosts. He simply hid in plain sight that the setting is a dream. In OG, when you enter Nibelheim with Tifa, ONLY when Tifa is there, does anyone ask if their memory of the town burning "was a dream." The same question is in Zangan's letter, which we shouldn't have ignored as a figure of speech. So no, Sephiroth didn't cause supernovas in the final battle -- the often-cited reason why Seph fans think he could beat Doomguy. That was Nomura's way of showing us that everything was a VR dream, even Sephiroth's attacks. VR is so easy that even Shinra can do it. The Cetra left VR in the Temple. Everyone was VR kung-fu fighting except Doomguy.
Two clues in Rebirth reveal what the "multiverse" actually is. Johnny's clones foreshadow it, but we see Johnny in both Zack's and Cloud's worlds. And he's not the only one. Kyrie too. Red too for a moment. Sure we see the bodies of Barrett and Tifa, but we can't tell if they're separate beings like with Johnny and Kyrie. Jenova's not the only one in need of Reunion. Everyone's psyche is split, with parts of their subconscious dreaming separate lives, such as Zack's three choices, each of which represents an aspect of his Freudian subconscious (id) desires. Omni Aerith in the final battle even spoils this by noting Seph's world represented his loneliness, his strong desire from his own id. As Barret blabs in the play, he believes love is an illusion. The Cetra psychically imprisoned Jenova, along with the entire planet. And yes, "id" the company created Doomguy. Sure there are more unexplained physics going on here, but Freudian reasoning consistently explains why these dreams come from the dreamer.
So...see Aerith glowing green when talking to Seph in the Temple, with two voices: her and Omni? See Aerith glowing green in the Forgotten Capital with one voice, Omni? Not dead. Notice she thanked Cloud for protecting her with unusual wording, as though it was important but wasn't her life. No one needs to protect Cloud from "mental collapse", because Jenova's exact mechanism of action is manipulating Cloud's ID, not direct mind control. She hasn't "collapsed" anyone. Her deceptiveness would be unnecessary had she such power. Aerith had prepped the party to use Reason, as Freud says normally regulates the ID's unreasonable desires, to handle Cloud at the Temple. That's exactly what Barret did. So, Aerith is alive.
Once the Ultimania confirmed the Ora/Watashi distinction in fine detail, the fan base became certain Jenova poses as Seph (and now Glenn) everywhere. There is no longer room to argue that Aerith died. Seph and Jenova swapped places, end of story. Seph can push Cloud back, Cloud can push Jenova back.
You need to read a couple Lovecraftian stories to understand FF7 and DOOM are intertwined in their origins and future. The Transition of Juan Romero -- John Romero is a DOOM founder -- has a guy summoned to Reunion from hearing a (Jenova) heartbeat drum and chanting, crossing into the abyss, dying in a dream and therefore in real life. (Gold Saucer play) (Lovecraftian Ancient God) Varvados tells the protagonist "Thou goest to DOOM", referring to the same abyss. Cloud tells Barret he consigns him to the abyss...to DOOM. The Invaders: evil single-eyed alien beholders with the "gaze of the Midgard Serpent" who escape their prison to resume invasion/transfiguration of Earth, because a protagonist used cult alchemy to experience memories/dreams from past lives. And if you pay attention to matching dialogue like "the people accepted dependency on the mako/argent energy", you can tell these authors have definitely colluded, not just borrowed from the same source.
Jenova is the (devil) ID, whereas Minerva is the (angel) superego, or "righteous anger" as Cloud was hugged by fake Seph: both Freudian subconsciouses, meaning from the same person. We actually see the angel in front of Jenova's Nibelheim test tube as well as the entrance to the mansion and Cetra VR -- *after* being defeated by the Cetra. So at some point, she appeared that way to Shinra. Notice both built empires, Jenova having the Norse Midgar, and Minerva having the (Roman) Junon and the (obviously Romanesque architecture) Church. Notice the empires went through a Reunion too, with the dark half taking control, just as in history. This symbolizes where the plot is going. And yes, Cloud must be packing Minerva's power or psyche for Jenova to be so determined to control him.
Minerva in Roman mythology was born in full armor exploding out of her father's head for killing her mom. The only way this ends...is with Doomguy.
Questions and comments?
This is a lot to digest, and it feels like 3 different essays to me. Even so, I’ll try to respond.
First, I’m not too familiar with Doom lore. It’s an interesting comparison but I doubt there’s overlap beyond that. I don’t have much else to add there, but it’s neat.
Next, the stuff with so-called Omni-Aerith is interesting but I want to know what people mean when they use this phrase. Is it the consciousness of Aerith who exists in the lifestream, almost like the goddess who travels through the lifestream and inserts herself at certain moments? I don’t hate the idea. And it makes for interesting narrative possibilities.
The idea of Ori-Sephiroth needs to be better explained in game. It’s neat in ultimanias but ultimately useless if it isn’t reinforced in the game itself.
Finally, the VR stuff is also interesting but I’m not sure what to do with that.
I love the Freud stuff though. Very cool assessment.
Thanks for the comment, and I apologize I can’t contribute further.
@@profnoctis Sorry yeah it's a lot to wrap our heads around. Take your time. I wish Nomura hadn't made the story this difficult to grasp. But here we are: a psychic warfare battleground.
By Omni-Aerith, I mean the "whole" Aerith back in Prime, the real living world, where the undamaged Midgar seen in the singularity actually is.
Ore Seph has done a couple uh female things, such as hugging Cloud...taking a very ladylike step at the Forgotten Capital after faking Aerith's death. And we have Gilgamesh: "ladies who dress like men." You will never see the truth with such clouded eyes.
There are plenty of story onion layers left to peel back. Just try.
9:00 ShrodingerMiddleAgeSeal
❤ if he sees this
@@ImaFknLegend I seent it
For me the best part of VII has always been the real life lessons. Most of all what we learn about Cloud in the memory sequence and the importance of memories shared. Hearing you guys talk about your own experiences and being able to compare fiction to reality is great. By doing this one can put themself in a characters shoes and into situations that they would never be in, and from that often comes a fun form of learning and self-exploration. I'd call this the second best part of fiction.
The best part for me, however, is the entertainment, just being on this journey, and trying to crack the mystery of what in the world (or worlds) is going to happen. On the last video of yours I made a guess of the other worlds being the Lifestream power that collides with Meteor. A big question I have is what form will these worlds be in by the conclusion? Will this 'final reunion' happen during the ending or will it happen during the memory sequence? I feel like prediction can vary depending on interpretation.
From a medical stand point, it might appear that the Planet itself now has Cloud's mental illness. Could these worlds actually merge as Cloud sorts out his thoughts, resulting in Aerith's realities reverting to a more visceral Lifestream state resembling that which Tifa experienced in Chapter 9 of Rebirth, or the one we saw in 'Maiden Who Travels the Planet?'
Consider how the human body fights off a virus. Once the body is through the worst part, it heals back stronger to fight off the problem. If the Planet and Cloud's mentality are tied, wouldn't a mentally sorted out Lifestream prioritize itself against Sephiroth? Imagine a Lifestream with very focused and obsessed preparation.
This is fascinating to consider. The planet has something akin to cloud’s mental illness… I’m gonna need to chew on that
@@profnoctis I love to provide brain fuel! If there was one line from OG I always remember, it was when Cid compared the Planet to a scared child in space.
FF7 is the gift that just keeps on giving!
And we’re just getting started
Nice chat, guys! Can't wait for Pt. 2
You are not prepared lol
I was excited for this. But honestly, it was the absolute least interesting video on ff7 I've seen yet. I really hope the next interview is better.
One way to find out, I guess lol
Was there anything specific you were looking for? Always looking to improve!
@@profnoctis Sorry, yes. I was under the impression that the subject was making sense of rebirth, but much of the episode felt more like an interview getting to know SBS. I wanted more discussion about the game and less about the person and his relationship to the game.
@@duquin yeah, part 2 is what gets at that specific stuff! We kinda sensed that tension, and while we always want to highlight the creators behind the content, we are trying to do it in a more streamlined way. Instead of just doing a nearly 3 hour episode, we just broke this one up into 2. But for the remainder, the origin story stuff will be a lot more concise! Thanks for the suggestion. Hope you enjoy part 2!