Every time. No matter how carefully and gently an issue was brought up. I even tried to explain my intention to discuss to grow closer and understand. It gets to the point where you feel like the only way you can stay is to be a doormat. Don't keep trying.
So validating! I always thought it was strange that I had to rehearse a conversation I wanted to have with him about something HE did! All because I didn’t want to stir the pot. That’s not a healthy relationship and it doesn’t mean you’re a complainer if you bring things to your partners attention about something they did to disrespect you, or just needing clarity about something. I started to notice that we only got along when I kept quiet. When I tried holding him accountable or questioned his behaviors, or things that I found out he lied about, he would turn into a totally different person and tell me how insecure and jealous I was; how all I did was hold onto the past (The past where he lied to me for years about his addictions and friends he kept on stand by that we never resolved completely btw) we did counseling, we had conversations during the love bombing phase of our off and on again 12 year toxic cycle… but nothing truly ever got resolved. I became the problem always and he would say “We’ve talked about this over and over, we’ve gone to counseling” and that may seem like it’s addressing the issue at hand, but there still was no clarity, I was always told to let it go after I expressed my frustration. Then came more lies and deceit. It had me in such a fog. I knew he wasn’t right. I had determined that he was a narcissist after educating myself on the disorder, but I still allowed him to Hoover me a couple more times. That’s when I looked in the mirror and the game changed. I focused and worked on self love and had to literally understand what it means to love yourself, what it means to value yourself, what exactly is a healthy relationship, what does love look like from your partner, etc. I pointed that finger at ME. I slowly began to crawl my way out after he discarded me. I sold my house, I moved 8 hours away and have limited contact with him because we share a child. Life is looking awesome for me these days. I realize I had to go thru that experience; it was all apart of my journey of life. 4 months free and I am still healing but the tears become less, the pain is fading away, the joy from within is peeking thru, and so many positive things have been happening. I love it here.
Thank you for sharing! I needed to hear this. My husband just left( at my request) and raising 5 kids alone feels overwhelming. I keep telling myself, it will get better, but then somedays I doubt. Now I know it will!!
My husband often says, " I'm sorry.".... Then if I don't say I forgive you right away. he says, "I told you I'm sorry so you have to forgive me, so we can go on." He has no feelings that he ever does wrong, that he demeans me or destroys something I love, like killing my flowers, or my 18 spice plants, or my notebooks or how he demeaned me in front of a group. etc. When I tell him "I'm sorry" he most often responds, "You should be!" And that is it. I get my value from my Lord and my friends... I understand with 40 years of this, I am of no true value to him.
You are of great value to him, and he knows it, but he's so lazy and weak and fragile that he spends his life trying to treat you like you don't. The thought that he might rely on you and need you makes him feel weak because he's a baby and he's afraid of abandonment
My mother was ahead of her time! She was wise in so many ways. She didn't force my sister and me to say we are sorry, but she would get us both together to talk it out. The one who was hurt said what hurt their feelings, and the one who was apologizing was taught to say, "I'm sorry I...(fill in the offence). We were taught to say exactly what we are sorry for bc this way you are owning what you did wrong, and validating the other person. Then the other would say, "I forgive you." I brought this concept into my marriage and it was completely foreign to my husband. It's still foreign for him, I think. But I raised our kids to do this too. ❤
If the significant other acts kindly and speaks kindly to you in front of others but then acts like a jerk to you in private. He already knows the right way to act. I turned the I'm sorry you feel that way fake apology on him once after 8 years of him using it on me to see what he thought of it as a test one day and he immediately got angy and yelled back that is not an apology. He knew that 'I'm sorry you feel that way' was not an apology. This is not always a lack of knowing it's a lack of humility. It's a pride issue. Furthermore he expected me not only to apologize for my part but to apologize for the whole thing even the parts I did not do wrong. Some men are ignorant but some men know what a good apology is.
My attitude was expect nothing get nothing from a narcissist. Now I educate myself on this item behaviour narcissist is, I deserve all the lot better than I did received and loving my self. Left ⬅️ him and I myself and my own boss 😅.
These are all things that I went through with my ex and more ,BUT ITS AMAZING TO ME HOW all through it all I still always felt guilty for not making him happy, somehow his unhappiness was always my fault🤦🏻♀️ It dates back to always trying to save my dad from his alcoholism and saving my mom from him and taking care of my siblings because the adults were absent 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ I am far along in my healing but not far enough to keep those demons from still stealing my sleep 🥺 This interview was amazingly helpful in helping me put things in a higher healthy perspective, thank you 🙏🏼 😊
One of the best videos that MRC has made and there have been many! Thanks again for your time and commitment to making people and marriages healthy. Blessings!
This is exactly what happens. I had years of therapy and classes to keep this from happening and to see the red flags and it still happened to me! Why are some men like this?
psychologically: clusterB disorder, because they are needy little boys .. perpetually manipulative; abusive and self entitled’ and shallow. 🚩clinically Arrested development type never established whole object relations 5-10yrs: A Mother’s of future adult males must detach herself gently ..and establish this growth healthy trait; ideally.
The best and truest answer is: They are broken, very broken...But the truth is so are we...Being broken is no excuse for bad and even evil behavior. I have learned a lot and "Do not cast your pearls before swine" is a verse I am learning.
Yes, agreed. Same It’s usually anxious attachment and or codependency. I unfortunately have both. It’s definitely a toxic, vicious cycle of constantly finding the same toxic partners.
My ex-husband has never had a consequence for his infidelity. He just leaves the wives ( had 2) because he doesn't want to be held accountable, never apologizes since he feels entitled to his choices, divorces, always has another woman in the wings, then cheats on her and the pattern continues. With me, there was emotional, physical, and financial abuse. I wish I had the benefit of all of the work you are doing on behalf of healthy relationships 30 years ago. When I listen to you, I know I wasn't crazy for all of the abuse, but sadly I still grieve all the years lost to me and my sons to have a healthy family because I was dealing with crazymaking. In spite of all the self-help reading, personal therapy, and divorce support groups, I never felt the puzzle pieces coming together. Now with your work and all the work of Dr. Ramani and Dr. Les Carter, those pieces are now coming together into the true picture of what I was dealing with. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Glad it was helpful! In most cases, some level of intervention is needed to break through the resistance or simply help them see things in a different light. Please reach out to learn how we can help. (206) 219-0145 or info@marriagerecoverycenter.com
My husband will pretend that he is making changes but he will want to make changes to things that are issues to me. He won’t change the things I’m constantly telling him hurts me. He will say he is making changes on completely random things that aren’t an issue to begin with.
All i asked for was kind loving consistent communication and quantity time with just each other and then family time. He says i was a stressor and too moody. He was fine if i didnt need anything and fawned. As soon as i voiced wants and needs that would help my mental health he was quick to get angry and defensive. He would say you know where the door is if your so unhappy.
Wow, I so needed to hear this today. He asked why it was so awful when we got back together the second time. I wanted to explain so I sent an email with photos that held drama memories. I mean well that he learns from it but I’ve felt guilty since. Now I see i really shouldn’t as he likely won’t take ownership of any of it anyway. The behavior never changed in two years…
clinically sociopaths or NPD are covert..usually passive aggressive; this cannot be fixed by talking; it is a game for them; wise women have to accept this and move on
Dealing with someone who cannot admit when they are wrong is very impossible to live with. An apology consists of the ability to acknowledge the specific wrong.
What an incredible podcast! This is really calling the right issues, causes and consequences. It is explaining so clearly what it does toma woman when he is not being empathic and involved in fixing an issue with her.
Glad you enjoyed it. Difficult to say the least, nearly impossible in many cases, but with the right intervention and follow up care, it is possible for those who are willing.
The time limit on forgiveness is big. Now that I’ve become healthier I’ve been able to hold my husband more accountable. The problem is that he believes he is right. I have soaked up the consequences of his bad behavior. Now I have a grown son who minimizes my husbands abuse. Now that I’m able to detach from my husband’s bad behavior, stopped over functioning and allow the consequences, my husband has escalated his manipulation and harmful behavior. But it doesn’t work! Yes it hurts that he is neglectful, yes it hurts that he chooses harming me instead of facing his shame. But I’m over the pain, the chaos, the confusion and the fear. The impact of decades of false apologies and the lack of caring. I have been undermined, devalued and diminished. He made the choices and I have to accept his choices. Free will. Now I get to make my choices I like who I am now. I am stronger welcoming in the parts of me I had to hide to survive the relationship, I will not accept the chaos, false apologies, gas lighting, etc. Thank you for addressing this, excellent video. Thanks for not overcomplicating or over analyzing or labeling. Fundamentally having these guys not be coddled anymore. I’ve spent decades trying every possible language to try to convince my husband I was worthy of love, I made my bids over and over. Now I accept that his choices were to remain in his immature little boy preservation mode.
Are u still with your husband?? Im experiencing the same. He does more harmful things, leaving us with nobmoney, not working, etc. Would love to know how your relationshil going?
You're very welcome. Glad you found value in it. For more related content, subscribe to our channel or sign up for our newsletter to get helpful tips and advice delivered directly to your Inbox: marriagerecoverycenter.com/mailing-list/
Yes I agree on all of this ! My husband is listening to this and says he understands. He keeps referencing a nail in her head , and he couldn’t figure it out . Let’s see . I’d really love to have sessions with you both and us .!
Been through all of this and much more. Stayed out of guilt, felt all my fault. Been married for over 50 years. Praying for God to help me to get away from him. Financially not easy.
Perhaps If I had this information in 2011 or sooner I would still be with my ex-wife, who refuses to speak to me. By the time I figured out what an idiot I was in 2015, it was too late she had already made up her mind to leave. I gave her 3 years to change her mind before filing for divorce. I used my time being single to study marriage and relationships, in the event I would get another chance with her or someone else. I am now married to a wonderful woman for 2 1/2 years who was abused in her previous marriage, and was very happy that I studied marriage. we are growing together and navigating the challenges of marriage with healthy boundaries, love and respect for one another. Thank you for sharing this life-changing content. I will be referring people to this channel.
That is wonderful to hear! It's what we choose to do with what life hands us that determines the health and happiness of our future. Thanks for your feedback!
If a domestic relationship takes this much effort to work out healthily.. it isn’t going to be fixable. NPD always revert to infantile demands of their (mother-wife) - A peter pan man - or puer aeternus (is) a lethal male child.
Wow, this all sounds very familiar! Its as if the devil is using the same tactics in every narcissist with small variations, they all look almost exactly the same. With true narcissists, it doesn't matter how you say something he will see every difficulty as a reason to fight! Narcissists do not connect, in fact, they see a connection as a vulnerability, they hate to be "known" everything is superficial, if it goes deeper they become unglued. We live in a culture that thinks "words" are all that is necessary and that we should just believe words without any change in behavior. I know of a narcissist who gets worse and pounds harder as soon as their target begins to cry, the more out of control he can make her the better, he wants to make her seem insane and will even say, you're insane. Confession and forgiveness are two sides of the same coin. First genuine confession and then genuine forgiveness restores the relationship. Superficial confession and superficial forgiveness does nothing for the relationship.
I believe what helps me the most in dealing with another bringing something regarding myself to my attention is to, at first, not take it personally. If, in working through the matter, the subject, there is indeed something that does involve me personally, then take it from there. I've had to do this to help survive, navigate quite a bit the last few years.
Thanks a lot, u people are really working for the wellbeing of humanity wholeheartedly, Appreciate your efforts. Really it's a very very important podcast.
It’s not about the way she’s talking to him necessarily but the way she is making him feel by bringing up a certain topic or situation that needs to be addressed. That’s my opinion anyway. 😊
Very true and I can attest to this! I tried every way in the book to talk to him and nothing worked!! Only when I praised him were things good. If something made him uncomfortable or he had to face any type of shame, I was the enemy! It was such an uncanny experience. Glad it’s over!
I'm sorry is like a get out of jail free card. And they expect you will forgive because it is "biblical" and forgiveness means there are no consequences for his behavior/words. Or saying sorry for the wrong thing. Example: My narc says I'm sorry I got mad when I don't care that he feels mad. It's what he says or does when he is mad that hurts!
Oh wow, this is so us! If "I'm sorry" is all that's said, it's just laziness! I love that. An apology is meaningful to me if the transgression is named (owned), offer to fix it, and don't do it again. That's confession and repentance! "I didn't do anything wrong!" This is mine to own! If I'm being blamed or accused of something that didn't happen I don't think I owe an apology, especially if an apology is demanded. What I think I heard here is, listen for the hurt feelings beneath the anger and accusations. Using the V helps!! You two are the best!
Very true! Such have always been the dynamics in our relationship. There waa nothing that is talked about that did not end up into a fight. Had always been about him getting offended and want me to always say sorry but why should I if I know that I did nothing to be sorry about.
Something else that is said that is commonly overlooked & destructive is the comment "well, if you wouldn't have found out then we wouldn't have a problem". How is that possible to understand or unpack emotionally when you care about the other person and the connection is all you truly want?
Another form of avoiding responsibility for hurting others. The underlying thinking errors and defense mechanisms have to be addressed. To learn more, please reach out and ask for our free eBook "Getting to the Core" info@marriagerecoverycenter.com or (206) 219-0145
I felt like you are talking about my life.He said he’s sorry but not saying what he’s sorry for ( so no accountability) then forgiveness without earning it , true narcissism !!!!! By Amelia
This is about the 3rd video I've watched with Dr. Hawkins. The 1st video I watched a light went on as clear a picture as ever. I would compare it to the day I repented my sins and came to Christ yes this is so right. I have so many levels of abuse that have happened in my life. I'm older and it's amazing how things can creep up on you. Little by little. If you are a young lady and you see a warning sign or red flag, do something now. It could be counseling or whatever helps the situation. Don't wait till tomorrow. These Drs. Know what they are talking about. I'm not making excuses but there was no cell phones or computers back then and this isolates a person.😮😢
I try to disengage from his jabs by saying “I’m sorry you feel that way” I honestly thought I was disengaging by saying that because at least I’m not letting him get me fighting back then be in bed for days when he seems very happy.
This is overall a very good video and speaks to the issues I am dealing with. Unfortunately, it occasionally degenerates into man bashing. It is helpful to keep in perspective that, while the vast majority of emotional abuse is from men to women, there is still a significant (and growing) population where it is the other way around. And, as immature and selfish as those men may be, there is an entire industry built around getting them straightened out. Not so for women. Not because they don’t do it, but because experts acknowledge that, while many men can and have been reformed, it simply doesn’t happen for women (no $ to be made here). And for my situation, that is sad news indeed.
It perplexes me how my mother could be okay with losing her daughter and granddaughter instead of just fixing the concerns I have. I received an apology directly followed up by "but you're not perfect either ." Followed up by excuses and then explaining that I'm asking for too much, being unreasonable etc. So I lost the relationship with my nieces also. My daughter cries over it. But the bottom line is the behavior was unacceptable.
15:59 I don't think you need to feel bad about this.. it a good skill to have to apologize and many times our feelings will catch up (for the healthier). I dont see how people can instantly really forgive and turn off all feelings or emotions but I think I am weird. However, I focus on any negative part I played, choose to look and focus on others good qualities and good times and choose to try and be kind. I then distract myself and negative feelings disappate. I think my ruminating type OCD and family always past flaws and put me on trial. 30:24 Love ❤a video on this.
This conversation was true, has depth and very very resourceful. Thank you so much. How can this education become available to all prior to marriage or at least educate men? Typically, men don’t seek help. Sadly, Before marriage most of us are closed to education. We think that we can figure it out.
Glad you found it helpful. And absolutely agree, everyone can benefit from this information and even better if you educate yourself before serious problems arise.
Still waiting for a heartfelt apology and change(repentence) from my soon to be ex.. i have never met a man more cruel than him. What a waste of 21 years
I'm in therapy with a woman I believe is a bit on the passive side. Our homework is we are supposed to make a list is how "we" contributed to the break of our marriage. He was the one that was emotionally abusive, and now I am struggling as to how I am now at fault. Should I have spoken up. That's not an easy answer because when he was at his worst I was at my weakest. I don't know what to put on my list? And I feel like she is condoning his manipulating gaslighting shift blaming abuse. Any insights would help
I love your videos! They're fantastic! The only thing that confuses me is that this video states that it was uploaded 1 hour ago. I have heard this seminar before. Many, many times. That confuses me. Are you just recycling old videos? That's okay with me I love them all! But it's just confusing me
Thanks for your inquiry. Our podcasts are available on other podcast platforms in addition to TH-cam, and the release schedule on our TH-cam channel is a bit different from the others, so it is published a bit later than on Apple podcast, Spotify, etc.
Can a person's gender spoken be replaced with usage of "person" to avoid sexist language? By casting blame onto one gender over another you invalidate those of the stereotyped gender who have experienced narcissistic spouses.
Family court evidence proves: as evidence based abuse to be 90% masculine trait: 10% present as female: its clusterB origin NPD is so clinically different: in therapy these in female with entitled traits are usually reactive-borderline..
Unfortunately the majority of these experiences, especially in Christian relationships, is men towards women. No one is invalidating the experience of men being abused. They are simply speaking to the majority, and validating the experience of women who are pathologically invalidated. I agree it's important for men being abused to be validated too. But another thing is often abusers act like they're the ones being abused.
I get the speaking to the majority, though videos could be a bit more neutral. Men are taught by society to suppress emotions. I think there is more abuse against men nowadays than before and the abuse has been for a long time underestimated because men tend to suppress their emotions because society tends to not want to hear them. Your last line seems to imply no matter what, men are to blame and if one speaks out, then the person is acting like a victim. Unfortunately we're in an age of entitlement. When one has that mindset of entitlement mixed with another person who tries to live with acts of service, someone is going to be the taker and the other a giver. Not a healthy relationship when two aren't working together as a team.
Thanks for your feedback. For more related content, subscribe to our channel or sign up for our newsletter to get helpful tips and advice delivered directly to your Inbox: marriagerecoverycenter.com/mailing-list/
I need time I need to heal from the situation of his actions on how he hurt me I just wanted him to apologize to me for his actions if I had done anything he did not like I would have changed it for the better I do not hold on to hurt and if it was said at the moment I would let go and I know it was not said and now I know he might lose me for good I did deserve it and he did not deserve it to so I need to heal before I can move forward
Except if the thing he's noticing that's not working for "us" is a hurtful criticism....something about her that might be a fruit of being dismissed and unseen and invisible for so long. I can see that being manipulated.
That's a great question since emotionally mature people don't understand or know how to have real, meaningful connection. It's not something you can just explain to someone, it takes time to help them see and understand the value of connection - why would they even want it. We also look deeper to see what is causing them to avoid real connection. That is where the real work is.
It’s vital to establish-this often innate (usually male) predator psycho pathology is the age old classic, a wolf in sheep’s clothing. In the 21st c. we don’t need to feed the wolf’ via too much negotiation! Leave when you can.. heal your children too gradually, if you have them. It’s a pragmatic task.
They can "learn" about real apologies all he wants, but a healthy apology learned can also be fake. I strongly believe he 1st needs inner healing from childhood traumas. He needs to find what caused him to be "stuck" at 6 yrs old! He's not capable of intimacy with her or God. He needs to get to the root. It's just like knowing about God as opposed to experience a true, intimate, authentic relationship with Jesus.
I'm accused of being a narcissist. I get what you're saying and I've listen led to many of your links. What I have a problem with is that I'm expected to know how she feels and guess what she wants. I like directness. Just tell me what you want. Why is this bad and why can't she just do this? Am I wrong? I might not do something she wants but waits for who knows how long to mention it. By that time I'm an asshole.
We agree, and teach both individuals how to communicate their needs and wants in a healthy, direct way. Expecting your partner to mind-read contributes to the problem.
My mom- I'm sorry you won't... I'm sorry you can't ... My x- nobody thinks like you... You're so dramatic... You're too sensitive... Omg you know I didn't mean it...
The man I live with is a narcopath! He will say sorry and always tell me how bad he feels about being a eg cheat . Then he won't let me feel . He doesn't mention me in his apology. This man is definitely non sorry ! There is no validation to my feelings
i have been scrambling with everyone not just a romantic interest. So is it for me to not continue to Try (scramble to make things work) With anyone in my life? I have not one person who can own up to the points made in this video. My Mother is the type of person who wants me to get over it and i have seen this pattern with all the others in my life patterned after her. They are "nice" people. They are also nice and unavailable . Emotionally unavailabe and physically they just want contact with me after a long time period and they arent all that interested in a deeper connection. They just want to "touch base" and continue being someone who is emotionally unavailable. I dont know how to get out of this hell. I am 50 years old. Scrambling is the word. I can only imagine i am desparate and they know it and they know i cannot stand up and walk away for good. I try for months i try to stay away and then i fall back and they get their brief interaction . As i listen to this how would the other person change unless they really wanted to even after a visit with you. Or attending a seminar with you.
Dr. Hawkins calls this "the shallow end of the pool." What we do is explore why there is self-protection and unwillingness to connect emotionally. Is there past trauma, something in their personal history, something that caused them to feel unsafe being emotionally vulnerable? Then we work to heal those areas. It can be a long process because trust needs to be built before we can break through to those self-protected areas.
I hear a deep longing to be loved and cherished. It sounds like your family members are not able to love you at that level - it’s time to go find real friends who will. I struggle with codependency because of the neglect and emotional/verbal abuse in my family and my marriage. This makes it even harder for me to feel loved and accepted by anyone. I’m getting healing for MY needs first - and know that God will bring me people who will love me just for who I am. After 38 years of being in an abusive marriage, God is changing my husband because I have done the hard work on me the past three years - and now he sees the change and is open to examining himself. Cling to Christ!! Surrender everything to him. Protect your heart 💜
"I don't want to be pejorative and put men down, but they're emotionally immature 6-year-olds." Why would any man continue to listen to this episode after that? How do you expect to foster productive conversations when you start an episode like that? Not helpful.
Good on you and you realized that it is not you but you have seen the real life proper care of yourself and your life has to offering so much more than you have received from the idiot of a " Husband". In the end of the day, he's never going to change his dread full mental health issues abuse you and others around you. Glad you woke up in time before you waisted the rest of your life on this one idiot.
Im sorry I got mad but its your fault because........ Or .....im sorry u geabbed you but i was frustrated with you..... So neausiating, no personal responsibility. Definitely a 6 yr old man
"Hes offended that shes offended by him when all shes asking is to build something different" Makes me think of my ex when i told him how his behavior affected me and called it emotionally abusive and he told me he was offended that id call it abuse 🥲
They say they're sorry, but the next day they do the same thing again, again, again.
I love the analogy of truth as the root and trust as the fruit. Spot on 👌👌👌
Hope you found it helpful, thanks for your comment
Every time. No matter how carefully and gently an issue was brought up. I even tried to explain my intention to discuss to grow closer and understand. It gets to the point where you feel like the only way you can stay is to be a doormat. Don't keep trying.
So validating! I always thought it was strange that I had to rehearse a conversation I wanted to have with him about something HE did! All because I didn’t want to stir the pot. That’s not a healthy relationship and it doesn’t mean you’re a complainer if you bring things to your partners attention about something they did to disrespect you, or just needing clarity about something. I started to notice that we only got along when I kept quiet. When I tried holding him accountable or questioned his behaviors, or things that I found out he lied about, he would turn into a totally different person and tell me how insecure and jealous I was; how all I did was hold onto the past (The past where he lied to me for years about his addictions and friends he kept on stand by that we never resolved completely btw) we did counseling, we had conversations during the love bombing phase of our off and on again 12 year toxic cycle… but nothing truly ever got resolved. I became the problem always and he would say “We’ve talked about this over and over, we’ve gone to counseling” and that may seem like it’s addressing the issue at hand, but there still was no clarity, I was always told to let it go after I expressed my frustration. Then came more lies and deceit. It had me in such a fog. I knew he wasn’t right. I had determined that he was a narcissist after educating myself on the disorder, but I still allowed him to Hoover me a couple more times. That’s when I looked in the mirror and the game changed. I focused and worked on self love and had to literally understand what it means to love yourself, what it means to value yourself, what exactly is a healthy relationship, what does love look like from your partner, etc. I pointed that finger at ME. I slowly began to crawl my way out after he discarded me. I sold my house, I moved 8 hours away and have limited contact with him because we share a child. Life is looking awesome for me these days. I realize I had to go thru that experience; it was all apart of my journey of life. 4 months free and I am still healing but the tears become less, the pain is fading away, the joy from within is peeking thru, and so many positive things have been happening. I love it here.
So inspiring to read this. You have a lot of friends that went through the same thing. So happy for you that you found yourself to be so great!
I'm so happy to read this ! I'm praying for you 🙏 May you find peace and love in so many ways 💗
Thank you for sharing! I needed to hear this. My husband just left( at my request) and raising 5 kids alone feels overwhelming. I keep telling myself, it will get better, but then somedays I doubt. Now I know it will!!
It’s also extreme pride to never apologize!
My husband often says, " I'm sorry.".... Then if I don't say I forgive you right away. he says, "I told you I'm sorry so you have to forgive me, so we can go on." He has no feelings that he ever does wrong, that he demeans me or destroys something I love, like killing my flowers, or my 18 spice plants, or my notebooks or how he demeaned me in front of a group. etc. When I tell him "I'm sorry" he most often responds, "You should be!" And that is it. I get my value from my Lord and my friends... I understand with 40 years of this, I am of no true value to him.
You are of great value to him, and he knows it, but he's so lazy and weak and fragile that he spends his life trying to treat you like you don't. The thought that he might rely on you and need you makes him feel weak because he's a baby and he's afraid of abandonment
My mother was ahead of her time! She was wise in so many ways. She didn't force my sister and me to say we are sorry, but she would get us both together to talk it out. The one who was hurt said what hurt their feelings, and the one who was apologizing was taught to say, "I'm sorry I...(fill in the offence). We were taught to say exactly what we are sorry for bc this way you are owning what you did wrong, and validating the other person. Then the other would say, "I forgive you." I brought this concept into my marriage and it was completely foreign to my husband. It's still foreign for him, I think. But I raised our kids to do this too. ❤
What a great example your mother set and bravo for passing this empathy along to your children.
If the significant other acts kindly and speaks kindly to you in front of others but then acts like a jerk to you in private. He already knows the right way to act.
I turned the I'm sorry you feel that way fake apology on him once after 8 years of him using it on me to see what he thought of it as a test one day and he immediately got angy and yelled back that is not an apology. He knew that 'I'm sorry you feel that way' was not an apology. This is not always a lack of knowing it's a lack of humility. It's a pride issue. Furthermore he expected me not only to apologize for my part but to apologize for the whole thing even the parts I did not do wrong. Some men are ignorant but some men know what a good apology is.
My narc, throughout our 15 years of marriage, never once apologized to me for anything he did to me 😭
My attitude was expect nothing get nothing from a narcissist.
Now I educate myself on this item behaviour narcissist is, I deserve all the lot better than I did received and loving my self.
Left ⬅️ him and I myself and my own boss 😅.
Instead of it being constructive, it’s always destructive! Well said.
These are all things that I went through with my ex and more ,BUT ITS AMAZING TO ME HOW all through it all I still always felt guilty for not making him happy, somehow his unhappiness was always my fault🤦🏻♀️
It dates back to always trying to save my dad from his alcoholism and saving my mom from him and taking care of my siblings because the adults were absent 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
I am far along in my healing but not far enough to keep those demons from still stealing my sleep 🥺
This interview was amazingly helpful in helping me put things in a higher healthy perspective, thank you 🙏🏼 😊
One of the best videos that MRC has made and there have been many! Thanks again for your time and commitment to making people and marriages healthy. Blessings!
@Stephanie Scavzzo totally agree. Really well explained.
Thanks for your feedback and glad you found it helpful!
Wow, what a powerful podcast, so much insight and wisdom and the application using godly principles was great. Thank you.
This is exactly what happens. I had years of therapy and classes to keep this from happening and to see the red flags and it still happened to me!
Why are some men like this?
I want to say why are so many men like this? But, I get that could just be my experience and not necessarily everyone’s experience.
psychologically: clusterB disorder, because they are needy little boys .. perpetually manipulative; abusive and self entitled’ and shallow. 🚩clinically Arrested development type never established whole object relations 5-10yrs: A Mother’s of future adult males must detach herself gently ..and establish this growth healthy trait; ideally.
The best and truest answer is: They are broken, very broken...But the truth is so are we...Being broken is no excuse for bad and even evil behavior. I have learned a lot and "Do not cast your pearls before swine" is a verse I am learning.
Yes, agreed. Same
It’s usually anxious attachment and or codependency. I unfortunately have both. It’s definitely a toxic, vicious cycle of constantly finding the same toxic partners.
My ex-husband has never had a consequence for his infidelity. He just leaves the wives ( had 2) because he doesn't want to be held accountable, never apologizes since he feels entitled to his choices, divorces, always has another woman in the wings, then cheats on her and the pattern continues. With me, there was emotional, physical, and financial abuse. I wish I had the benefit of all of the work you are doing on behalf of healthy relationships 30 years ago. When I listen to you, I know I wasn't crazy for all of the abuse, but sadly I still grieve all the years lost to me and my sons to have a healthy family because I was dealing with crazymaking. In spite of all the self-help reading, personal therapy, and divorce support groups, I never felt the puzzle pieces coming together. Now with your work and all the work of Dr. Ramani and Dr. Les Carter, those pieces are now coming together into the true picture of what I was dealing with. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Thank you soooooo much. Best video on a very difficult subject to discuss with a partner who just doesn’t get it.
Glad it was helpful! In most cases, some level of intervention is needed to break through the resistance or simply help them see things in a different light. Please reach out to learn how we can help. (206) 219-0145 or info@marriagerecoverycenter.com
My husband will pretend that he is making changes but he will want to make changes to things that are issues to me. He won’t change the things I’m constantly telling him hurts me. He will say he is making changes on completely random things that aren’t an issue to begin with.
He’s offended that I’m offended. Exactly! This show has been very helpful. Thank you.
All i asked for was kind loving consistent communication and quantity time with just each other and then family time. He says i was a stressor and too moody. He was fine if i didnt need anything and fawned. As soon as i voiced wants and needs that would help my mental health he was quick to get angry and defensive. He would say you know where the door is if your so unhappy.
Wow, I so needed to hear this today. He asked why it was so awful when we got back together the second time. I wanted to explain so I sent an email with photos that held drama memories. I mean well that he learns from it but I’ve felt guilty since. Now I see i really shouldn’t as he likely won’t take ownership of any of it anyway. The behavior never changed in two years…
clinically sociopaths or NPD are covert..usually passive aggressive; this cannot be fixed by talking; it is a game for them; wise women have to accept this and move on
Dealing with someone who cannot admit when they are wrong is very impossible to live with. An apology consists of the ability to acknowledge the specific wrong.
That is exactly what my future ex husband does to me!
It is horrible
There is Never room to talk my feelings!
What an incredible podcast! This is really calling the right issues, causes and consequences. It is explaining so clearly what it does toma woman when he is not being empathic and involved in fixing an issue with her.
This entire pod cast has been my entire life with him for over 35 years…😢😢I’m out for 3 years now. I am so very peaceful
Great content! This is such a difficult topic, to try and change this dynamic
Glad you enjoyed it. Difficult to say the least, nearly impossible in many cases, but with the right intervention and follow up care, it is possible for those who are willing.
The time limit on forgiveness is big. Now that I’ve become healthier I’ve been able to hold my husband more accountable. The problem is that he believes he is right. I have soaked up the consequences of his bad behavior. Now I have a grown son who minimizes my husbands abuse. Now that I’m able to detach from my husband’s bad behavior, stopped over functioning and allow the consequences, my husband has escalated his manipulation and harmful behavior. But it doesn’t work! Yes it hurts that he is neglectful, yes it hurts that he chooses harming me instead of facing his shame. But I’m over the pain, the chaos, the confusion and the fear. The impact of decades of false apologies and the lack of caring. I have been undermined, devalued and diminished. He made the choices and I have to accept his choices. Free will. Now I get to make my choices I like who I am now. I am stronger welcoming in the parts of me I had to hide to survive the relationship, I will not accept the chaos, false apologies, gas lighting, etc. Thank you for addressing this, excellent video. Thanks for not overcomplicating or over analyzing or labeling. Fundamentally having these guys not be coddled anymore. I’ve spent decades trying every possible language to try to convince my husband I was worthy of love, I made my bids over and over. Now I accept that his choices were to remain in his immature little boy preservation mode.
Sounds like you do not allow yourself to become enmeshed in his issues and maintain strong boundaries. Great to hear, thanks for sharing
Are u still with your husband?? Im experiencing the same. He does more harmful things, leaving us with nobmoney, not working, etc. Would love to know how your relationshil going?
Such good information, thanks for putting this out free of charge!
So glad you found it helpful!
My husband say “I am sorry” but he does the same mistake over and over. I wonder if he is narcissistic
Apology without change is manipulation
This is great. Thank you both for your work and helping to bring this conversation to the public sphere
You're very welcome. Glad you found value in it. For more related content, subscribe to our channel or sign up for our newsletter to get helpful tips and advice delivered directly to your Inbox: marriagerecoverycenter.com/mailing-list/
Yes I agree on all of this !
My husband is listening to this and says he understands. He keeps referencing a nail in her head , and he couldn’t figure it out . Let’s see . I’d really love to have sessions with you both and us .!
Been through all of this and much more. Stayed out of guilt, felt all my fault. Been married for over 50 years. Praying for God to help me to get away from him. Financially not easy.
Powerful. Thank you for making clarifications that I have never heard.
Perhaps If I had this information in 2011 or sooner I would still be with my ex-wife, who refuses to speak to me. By the time I figured out what an idiot I was in 2015, it was too late she had already made up her mind to leave. I gave her 3 years to change her mind before filing for divorce. I used my time being single to study marriage and relationships, in the event I would get another chance with her or someone else.
I am now married to a wonderful woman for 2 1/2 years who was abused in her previous marriage, and was very happy that I studied marriage. we are growing together and navigating the challenges of marriage with healthy boundaries, love and respect for one another.
Thank you for sharing this life-changing content. I will be referring people to this channel.
That is wonderful to hear! It's what we choose to do with what life hands us that determines the health and happiness of our future. Thanks for your feedback!
Thank you for this. This has truly blessed my hurting heart. 🙏🏾
If a domestic relationship takes this much effort to work out healthily.. it isn’t going to be fixable. NPD always revert to infantile demands of their (mother-wife) - A peter pan man - or puer aeternus (is) a lethal male child.
Wow opened my eyes... such a good video .... thank you
So glad you found it helpful, thanks for your comment
Wow, this all sounds very familiar! Its as if the devil is using the same tactics in every narcissist with small variations, they all look almost exactly the same. With true narcissists, it doesn't matter how you say something he will see every difficulty as a reason to fight! Narcissists do not connect, in fact, they see a connection as a vulnerability, they hate to be "known" everything is superficial, if it goes deeper they become unglued. We live in a culture that thinks "words" are all that is necessary and that we should just believe words without any change in behavior. I know of a narcissist who gets worse and pounds harder as soon as their target begins to cry, the more out of control he can make her the better, he wants to make her seem insane and will even say, you're insane. Confession and forgiveness are two sides of the same coin. First genuine confession and then genuine forgiveness restores the relationship. Superficial confession and superficial forgiveness does nothing for the relationship.
A real apology is realizing that you were wrong for resenting/hating someone and then go tell them that you were wrong.
You guys are TOP NOTCH ❤
I believe what helps me the most in dealing with another bringing something regarding myself to my attention is to, at first, not take it personally. If, in working through the matter, the subject, there is indeed something that does involve me personally, then take it from there. I've had to do this to help survive, navigate quite a bit the last few years.
Thanks a lot, u people are really working for the wellbeing of humanity wholeheartedly, Appreciate your efforts. Really it's a very very important podcast.
trust is a big word my granny told me and i will only listen to what is the truth and to the heart and you can win my heart
It’s not about the way she’s talking to him necessarily but the way she is making him feel by bringing up a certain topic or situation that needs to be addressed. That’s my opinion anyway. 😊
Thanks for your opinion. Diversity of perspectives makes for a richer conversation.
Very true and I can attest to this! I tried every way in the book to talk to him and nothing worked!! Only when I praised him were things good. If something made him uncomfortable or he had to face any type of shame, I was the enemy! It was such an uncanny experience. Glad it’s over!
I'm sorry is like a get out of jail free card. And they expect you will forgive because it is "biblical" and forgiveness means there are no consequences for his behavior/words. Or saying sorry for the wrong thing. Example: My narc says I'm sorry I got mad when I don't care that he feels mad. It's what he says or does when he is mad that hurts!
Here are some videos on Forgiveness that we hope you find helpful: th-cam.com/video/6LJkQiF2L5c/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/PA-iSMsRaTk/w-d-xo.html
Oh wow, this is so us! If "I'm sorry" is all that's said, it's just laziness! I love that. An apology is meaningful to me if the transgression is named (owned), offer to fix it, and don't do it
again. That's confession and repentance!
"I didn't do anything wrong!" This is mine to own! If I'm being blamed or accused of something that didn't happen I don't think I owe an apology, especially if an apology is demanded. What I think I heard here is, listen for the hurt feelings beneath the anger and accusations. Using the V helps!!
You two are the best!
Glad you found it helpful and thanks for your sharing!
Very true! Such have always been the dynamics in our relationship. There waa nothing that is talked about that did not end up into a fight. Had always been about him getting offended and want me to always say sorry but why should I if I know that I did nothing to be sorry about.
Awesome video.
Thanks for your feedback
Something else that is said that is commonly overlooked & destructive is the comment "well, if you wouldn't have found out then we wouldn't have a problem". How is that possible to understand or unpack emotionally when you care about the other person and the connection is all you truly want?
Another form of avoiding responsibility for hurting others. The underlying thinking errors and defense mechanisms have to be addressed. To learn more, please reach out and ask for our free eBook "Getting to the Core" info@marriagerecoverycenter.com or (206) 219-0145
My husband apologized to me saying, "I'm sorry I did that for you". All the time.
I felt like you are talking about my life.He said he’s sorry but not saying what he’s sorry for ( so no accountability) then forgiveness without earning it , true narcissism !!!!! By Amelia
You’re so right, Sharmen, it could be so easy! Only not with an emotional immature, highly defensive, easily offended man who never grew up.
Good morning 🌄, watching from Tulsa Oklahoma,.
Thanks for joining!
@@drdavidbhawkins so grateful for being able to receive sound wisdom. Thank you.
This is about the 3rd video I've watched with Dr. Hawkins. The 1st video I watched a light went on as clear a picture as ever. I would compare it to the day I repented my sins and came to Christ yes this is so right. I have so many levels of abuse that have happened in my life. I'm older and it's amazing how things can creep up on you. Little by little. If you are a young lady and you see a warning sign or red flag, do something now. It could be counseling or whatever helps the situation. Don't wait till tomorrow. These Drs. Know what they are talking about. I'm not making excuses but there was no cell phones or computers back then and this isolates a person.😮😢
Thanks for your feedback and so glad you found us. Knowledge is power, we wish you the best in your healing journey
I try to disengage from his jabs by saying “I’m sorry you feel that way” I honestly thought I was disengaging by saying that because at least I’m not letting him get me fighting back then be in bed for days when he seems very happy.
This is overall a very good video and speaks to the issues I am dealing with. Unfortunately, it occasionally degenerates into man bashing. It is helpful to keep in perspective that, while the vast majority of emotional abuse is from men to women, there is still a significant (and growing) population where it is the other way around. And, as immature and selfish as those men may be, there is an entire industry built around getting them straightened out. Not so for women. Not because they don’t do it, but because experts acknowledge that, while many men can and have been reformed, it simply doesn’t happen for women (no $ to be made here). And for my situation, that is sad news indeed.
It perplexes me how my mother could be okay with losing her daughter and granddaughter instead of just fixing the concerns I have. I received an apology directly followed up by "but you're not perfect either ." Followed up by excuses and then explaining that I'm asking for too much, being unreasonable etc. So I lost the relationship with my nieces also. My daughter cries over it. But the bottom line is the behavior was unacceptable.
15:59 I don't think you need to feel bad about this.. it a good skill to have to apologize and many times our feelings will catch up (for the healthier).
I dont see how people can instantly really forgive and turn off all feelings or emotions but I think I am weird. However, I focus on any negative part I played, choose to look and focus on others good qualities and good times and choose to try and be kind. I then distract myself and negative feelings disappate. I think my ruminating type OCD and family always past flaws and put me on trial. 30:24 Love ❤a video on this.
This conversation was true, has depth and very very resourceful.
Thank you so much.
How can this education become available to all prior to marriage or at least educate men? Typically, men don’t seek help.
Sadly, Before marriage most of us are closed to education. We think that we can figure it out.
Glad you found it helpful. And absolutely agree, everyone can benefit from this information and even better if you educate yourself before serious problems arise.
Still waiting for a heartfelt apology and change(repentence) from my soon to be ex.. i have never met a man more cruel than him. What a waste of 21 years
I can identify with every single thing that you have said 😢
that would be awsome and i would follow his lead oh god do you me and my heart both of you
Is there anyone you can connect me with in the Grand Rapids areas with this topic?
Please reach out to our Client Care Team to learn how we can help. info@marriagerecoverycenter.com or (206) 219-0145
I'm in therapy with a woman I believe is a bit on the passive side. Our homework is we are supposed to make a list is how "we" contributed to the break of our marriage. He was the one that was emotionally abusive, and now I am struggling as to how I am now at fault. Should I have spoken up. That's not an easy answer because when he was at his worst I was at my weakest. I don't know what to put on my list? And I feel like she is condoning his manipulating gaslighting shift blaming abuse. Any insights would help
I love your videos! They're fantastic! The only thing that confuses me is that this video states that it was uploaded 1 hour ago. I have heard this seminar before. Many, many times. That confuses me. Are you just recycling old videos? That's okay with me I love them all! But it's just confusing me
I’m glad if they did. It’s my first introduction and it was exactly what I’ve struggled with. A message I definitely needed.
Thanks for your inquiry. Our podcasts are available on other podcast platforms in addition to TH-cam, and the release schedule on our TH-cam channel is a bit different from the others, so it is published a bit later than on Apple podcast, Spotify, etc.
Can a person's gender spoken be replaced with usage of "person" to avoid sexist language? By casting blame onto one gender over another you invalidate those of the stereotyped gender who have experienced narcissistic spouses.
Family court evidence proves: as evidence based abuse to be 90% masculine trait: 10% present as female: its clusterB origin NPD is so clinically different: in therapy these in female with entitled traits are usually reactive-borderline..
Unfortunately the majority of these experiences, especially in Christian relationships, is men towards women. No one is invalidating the experience of men being abused. They are simply speaking to the majority, and validating the experience of women who are pathologically invalidated. I agree it's important for men being abused to be validated too. But another thing is often abusers act like they're the ones being abused.
I get the speaking to the majority, though videos could be a bit more neutral. Men are taught by society to suppress emotions. I think there is more abuse against men nowadays than before and the abuse has been for a long time underestimated because men tend to suppress their emotions because society tends to not want to hear them.
Your last line seems to imply no matter what, men are to blame and if one speaks out, then the person is acting like a victim.
Unfortunately we're in an age of entitlement. When one has that mindset of entitlement mixed with another person who tries to live with acts of service, someone is going to be the taker and the other a giver. Not a healthy relationship when two aren't working together as a team.
Amazing
Thanks for your feedback. For more related content, subscribe to our channel or sign up for our newsletter to get helpful tips and advice delivered directly to your Inbox: marriagerecoverycenter.com/mailing-list/
well he already did and now I'm going to leave it and I'm moving on i would say so
I need time I need to heal from the situation of his actions on how he hurt me I just wanted him to apologize to me for his actions if I had done anything he did not like I would have changed it for the better I do not hold on to hurt and if it was said at the moment I would let go and I know it was not said and now I know he might lose me for good I did deserve it and he did not deserve it to so I need to heal before I can move forward
Except if the thing he's noticing that's not working for "us" is a hurtful criticism....something about her that might be a fruit of being dismissed and unseen and invisible for so long. I can see that being manipulated.
How do you explain what connection is to a narcissist, to an uncooperative immature person?
That's a great question since emotionally mature people don't understand or know how to have real, meaningful connection. It's not something you can just explain to someone, it takes time to help them see and understand the value of connection - why would they even want it. We also look deeper to see what is causing them to avoid real connection. That is where the real work is.
It’s vital to establish-this often innate (usually male) predator psycho pathology is the age old classic, a wolf in sheep’s clothing. In the 21st c. we don’t need to feed the wolf’ via too much negotiation! Leave when you can.. heal your children too gradually, if you have them. It’s a pragmatic task.
If, men do apologize. They don’t mean it!!!
Would be great if you did premarital counseling including this video.
At least for guys.
They can "learn" about real apologies all he wants, but a healthy apology learned can also be fake. I strongly believe he 1st needs inner healing from childhood traumas. He needs to find what caused him to be "stuck" at 6 yrs old! He's not capable of intimacy with her or God. He needs to get to the root. It's just like knowing about God as opposed to experience a true, intimate, authentic relationship with Jesus.
I'm accused of being a narcissist. I get what you're saying and I've listen led to many of your links. What I have a problem with is that I'm expected to know how she feels and guess what she wants. I like directness. Just tell me what you want. Why is this bad and why can't she just do this? Am I wrong? I might not do something she wants but waits for who knows how long to mention it. By that time I'm an asshole.
We agree, and teach both individuals how to communicate their needs and wants in a healthy, direct way. Expecting your partner to mind-read contributes to the problem.
My mom- I'm sorry you won't...
I'm sorry you can't ...
My x- nobody thinks like you...
You're so dramatic...
You're too sensitive...
Omg you know I didn't mean it...
Gaslighting
"I was just joking."
The man I live with is a narcopath! He will say sorry and always tell me how bad he feels about being a eg cheat . Then he won't let me feel . He doesn't mention me in his apology. This man is definitely non sorry ! There is no validation to my feelings
i have been scrambling with everyone not just a romantic interest. So is it for me to not continue to Try (scramble to make things work) With anyone in my life? I have not one person who can own up to the points made in this video. My Mother is the type of person who wants me to get over it and i have seen this pattern with all the others in my life patterned after her. They are "nice" people. They are also nice and unavailable . Emotionally unavailabe and physically they just want contact with me after a long time period and they arent all that interested in a deeper connection. They just want to "touch base" and continue being someone who is emotionally unavailable. I dont know how to get out of this hell. I am 50 years old. Scrambling is the word. I can only imagine i am desparate and they know it and they know i cannot stand up and walk away for good. I try for months i try to stay away and then i fall back and they get their brief interaction . As i listen to this how would the other person change unless they really wanted to even after a visit with you. Or attending a seminar with you.
Dr. Hawkins calls this "the shallow end of the pool." What we do is explore why there is self-protection and unwillingness to connect emotionally. Is there past trauma, something in their personal history, something that caused them to feel unsafe being emotionally vulnerable? Then we work to heal those areas. It can be a long process because trust needs to be built before we can break through to those self-protected areas.
I hear a deep longing to be loved and cherished. It sounds like your family members are not able to love you at that level - it’s time to go find real friends who will. I struggle with codependency because of the neglect and emotional/verbal abuse in my family and my marriage. This makes it even harder for me to feel loved and accepted by anyone. I’m getting healing for MY needs first - and know that God will bring me people who will love me just for who I am. After 38 years of being in an abusive marriage, God is changing my husband because I have done the hard work on me the past three years - and now he sees the change and is open to examining himself. Cling to Christ!! Surrender everything to him. Protect your heart 💜
I stopped watching this video when you chose to refer to the narcissist as male. My mother is why I'm learning how to deal with these people.
Strange
🥰GRATITUTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🥰
"I don't want to be pejorative and put men down, but they're emotionally immature 6-year-olds."
Why would any man continue to listen to this episode after that?
How do you expect to foster productive conversations when you start an episode like that? Not helpful.
Good on you and you realized that it is not you but you have seen the real life proper care of yourself and your life has to offering so much more than you have received from the idiot of a " Husband". In the end of the day, he's never going to change his dread full mental health issues abuse you and others around you. Glad you woke up in time before you waisted the rest of your life on this one idiot.
14:31
Im sorry I
got mad but its your fault because........
Or .....im sorry u geabbed you but i was frustrated with you.....
So neausiating, no personal responsibility. Definitely a 6 yr old man
Yes, exactly how a 6 year old thinks.
"Hes offended that shes offended by him when all shes asking is to build something different"
Makes me think of my ex when i told him how his behavior affected me and called it emotionally abusive and he told me he was offended that id call it abuse 🥲