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Which Primarchs did Russ think he could beat?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.พ. 2019
- Hi all,
Today I discuss which Primarchs did Leman Russ think he could defeat in battle? Or not? Drop a comment below with your thoughts!
Regular Warhammer 40k and Horus Hersey discussion uploaded every week. Please like and subscribe to help grow the channel!
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What do you think of Russ' thoughts? Right or wrong? All hail the Wolf King!
Let not forget the epic brawls with the Lion
1 on 1 Russ beats all Primarchs.
@@funandparty2493 lion? and sanguinious? Horus? The rest I give you for sure
@@richardvaldes3959 Well he won against Horus. Plot armor saved Horus. For Sanguinius I give you that. Lion no chanse in the long fight agaisnt Russ. He wouldn't be Emperors executioner for nothing. And it is stated that Russ alredy killed one Primach before. One of ''Lost Primarch''.
@@funandparty2493 ooh pulled out the lost primarch kill. Ill give you that
Vulkan laughs perpetually
oldtimmy come on brada give me a biiig hug
Yes I think Russ over estimates himself if he thinks vukan is not a in the running
@@alanrickett2537 If you reference the table top stats, Vulkan can't win an outright fight. Being a perpetual he'll come back? But he'd be defeated outright.
@@notadog4194 sure you are right games stats as I don't play at least this decade but lore wise not convinced
*Steel fork deeeply embedded in his throat rising and falling with each guffaw*
Also... i see wha ya did there!
I remember Malcador saying to Russ when he eventually got back to Terra, that Magnus could have killed him during their fight on Prospero if he actually wanted to. Coming from Malcador, he's not lying.
He was grieving and emotionally broken. The only thing that brought him to action was the prospect of his sons all dying. So yes, if he had been fueled by rage instead of grief, I'm sure he could have ended Russ.
There are quite a few that could take down Russ he's way to sure of himself and they would have exploited that.
Magnus should've been able to defeat all of them, I believe.
@@gundarius If you've read the (aged) dragonlance series, Raistlin was by far the most dangerous. Malcador could have bested any of the primarchs, with the possible exception of Magnus, for the same reason Magnus is the most dangerous individually.
Magnus, naked, could kill any of the other primarchs (possibly not the Khan, Magnus hinted at his untapped psychic potential) simply because he always has a weapon the others do not.
Malcador also thought Russ couldn't beat Horus, but he did.
Angron battle:
* Angron begins yelling *
* Angron yells some more *
* Angron charges at Russ, revving his chainaxe, but yelling louder than his weapon *
* Russ steps exactly 30 cm to the side and extends his left foot *
* Angron trips, yelling, and is torn to shreds by his own chainaxe *
* Angron is still yelling *
Hehe heh bagabigub BI gab HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
but this never happened...what are you getting at Angron would win this fight 1 vs 1
2 seconds later russ is missing half his body
What? Did you even read the books where they fought?
@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 this!!
2 seconds later russ is missing half his body
I think he seriously over estimates his chances against Johnson. Malcador himself saw the lion as an apex predator when it came to the primarchs and his interactions with him. He always observed and watched them for weaknesses when in conference with his brothers.
Agreed
Not to mention literally every time they butt heads physically, Russ comes off worse.
În the primarch novel Leman Russ admits that the Lion beat him
Yeah, Russ and the Lion seem to be somewhat on the same level in terms of their fighting skills. If we stop thinking about the sucker punch in the end of their duel for one second, fighting against eachother for three days without a break is actually a pretty good statement for the fact that none of them is superior compared to the other.
If you look at other primarch fights... yeah, most of them didn't last anything close to that.
Two sucker punches were thrown that day, only one Primarch walked away.
The Khan spent decades as s forgotten primarch. His chapter/legion obscure and uninteresting to most. Covering him in books still caters to a narrow audience, though Wraight is changing that.
But I think Russ glosses ovet Jaghatai here. For the same reason Khan said he could beat Fulgrim. He's a mystery. No one knows what he's capable of. Thus far we've seen him break the endurance of Mortarion, best a keeper of secrets in swordplay (with a broken sword), and kill hundreds, if not thousands, of orks single handedly in a minute flat. This also ignores the repeated and earnest allusions by Magnus that Jaghatai contained a vast, untapped psychic power. He already manifested a force weapon by instinct on Prospero.
The Khan is a dark horse in white armor. Mark my words.
Some of the best heresy writing loved scars and path of heaven and the part the Kahn and jubal play in solar war
The emperor was even running intelligence on him 🤔
@Chaos Undivided no u
the fact that hes horus heresy rules have him at WS 7 is just an insult
should be at least 8 but i would argue for 9
I don't think Russ could beat The Khan either.
Vulkan would beet Russ through sheer friendship. It would break my heart to see vulkan fighting to death with his brothers
@Meanest Green Vulcan would power hug his opponents to death if it came to physical combat!!!😂😂 (TTSD)
vulkan would boop the snoot
Vulkan would basically open his arms and let Russ run him through.
He'd then get up 1 min later and chuckle asking him "Have we calmed down brother?".
Speaking of Vulkan, how do Russ and Vulkan view one another?
@@knightlord5962 we've never had a book where fire and ice have met unfortunately.
Russ is indeed powerful, though he underestimates Angron, the Lion and Vulkan. But the real power here is Sanguinius.
Sanguinius was the Primarch that Horus was afraid of the most.
@AdeptKing Sanguinius and Horus was considered equal in close combat right?
@@AdeptKing Actually he feared about Magnus and Russ the most, thats why he make them fight each other, because at the end if any of those legions were destroyed that will make his plans more easy to come
@@GuyverZeus1979 Ah really? I guess I'm remembering things wrong or I was misinformed.
@@AdeptKing It is said on either Thousand sons or Burning Prospero book, because Russ legion with the unstoppable fierce they have and Magnus legion with the powerful pskyers can take down daemons and banish them into the warp, He have plans for Blood Angels and Ultramarines as well, send the Dark Angels to far campain, those 5 legions was the problem for him
"He saw our imperfection, and he suffered it to remain, and that was the heart of his nobility. In the end, then, he truly was better than us. The archetype of Legions, First of us all."- Leman on the Lion, the man likes to contradict himself
Sometimes a hypocrite is just a man who's changed. That quote was after the HH where Russ is less arrogant and more depressed.
@@Cklert People change a lot overtime.
He’s still sore from the beat down that he got that started the tradition fighting their chapters have.
@@C0ldIron no, just mourning a person whom he originally distrusted and hated, but grew to have a close connection. That quote is from when Russ was telling the story to a new recruit, and how Russ and Lion become close.
@@BENR8108 I was referring to how in the video quote he didn’t even mention the lion. Thus explaining the contradiction.
Konrad and Sanguinius fought to a stalemate, because of their psychic powers.
So Russ saying he has doubts about beating them might also be because they can see what he will do before he does it.
Konrad gets underestimated by a lot of people.
Papa sang didn't have his armor or any weapons in that fight though
I think he gets underestimated because vulkan smashed him and said he was weakling he always made sure to go easy on because he was so fragile.
i think the khan is underated as well :(
The Night Haunter is just insane,he's right but a truly dedicated dude
The Night Haunter, Konrad Kurze. Two separate entities. Personalities if you will. The monster and the Emperors son. The monster is insane, Konrad, is not. Though he eventually "fell" and became the monster.
@@Sylinnilys I wouldn't say Curze became a monster but rather he realized that he was turning into the very person he loathed and hated. The Night Haunter was one of the only traitor primarchs to not be completely turned to chaos, and also managed to reclaim his mind. After the Horus Heresy, Konrad lost his legion to the ruinous powers and also lost many of his beloved brothers as well as his father, the Emporer. His whole life he had fought for justice and for the greater good of humanity, and now after his father and brothers were slain, he realised that he had become a monster. There is only one reason why Konrad waited for his death... because he no longer wanted to live with the guilt of letting himself be corrupted that led to harming his fellow brothers and the Imperium.
Jeremy Yang very nicely put
Corax on the other hand claims the Night Haunter is not on his level. That he could have killed both him and Lorgar.
Yet believed he would die at the hands of Angron. With only a small chance of taking him down.
Interesting to see how primarch opinions differ so much.
It's like rock, paper, scissor with them. Leman for instance is not that good against Primarchs that have precognition (Konrad and Sanguinius).
@@AzraelSoulHunter I'd say that with the exception of Lorgar who was no fighter and Alpharius or Omegon who were physically weaker, any primarch could beat the other on any given day.
In the First Heretic book Konrad prevents Corvus from killing Lorgar with relitve ease during the events of the Istvaan V dropsite massacre and in Devliverance Lost he comes to the conculsion that he vastly underestimated Konrad Curze.
@@chaptermastermarneuscalgar6926 No he does not. He comes to the conclusion that he overestimated Konrad Curze and that he does not consider him an equal. He regrets running away and believes he could have killed them both.
Styles make fights
2:04 Dayumm, i guess we heard one of the main reasons why Lorgan joined Chaos. only the gods themselves can heal him from such a burn.
i am a World Eaters fan, and i must say
*confused chain-axe noises*
Russ is just cause he lost to him.
Angron>Russ
@@papanurgle8393 You do know Russ let him win? He even said he wasn't trying to win the Dual and told him that even if he won he would of died and the wolves would of slaughtered them all through tactics. The point was to prove him that his anger controls him and his men. If Russ took advantage of his anger in an actual dual he was trying to win he could
@@KonradCurves He _said._
Rus is an arrogant bastard.
Angron beat the shit out of him, you dont hold back against some crazy berserker gladiator thats trying to kill you.
1 on 1, Rus wouldnt have the Wolves there to save his ass.
@@stevepalpatine2828 yeah i'm sure the primarch that could've killed Horus after defeating him in a 1vs1 would lose to Angron...
Angron is weak, he got captured and turned into a gladiator on his world and was about to die if the Emperor didn't save him.
*casually forgets to mention the time El' Johnson punched him into a short coma*
Well, he *was* in a coma. You don't lose the fights you're too knocked out to remember.
Thats becuase russ dropped his guard and laughed then Johnson sucker punched him.
Yah russ did technically lose but it was never a real or serious fight
@@lordcommissar7813 Russ started the fight with a sucker punch. A fights not finished until you and you opponent agree its over, Lion took a sucker punch on the Chin, Russ went to sleep. Lion won that fight. Add weapons into it, the Lion disarmed Russ quickly in the start of their fight and after said sucker punch. Russ is the executioner, Lion El' was the exterminator.
@@Jesseleeg This.
@@Jesseleeg Neither attacks are suggested as "sucker" punches/attacks. You can't really class this as a fight, neither of them got the better of each other and the knockout was literally due to Leman dropping his guard. Both formidable and equal to each other if you ask me. Although, Russ is so arrogant and full of himself, put him against Vulkan, let him get a new one torn. Ha
IIRC, the wolf boi was the only Primarch to ever fight the Emperor when the big E came for them. You do not simply just recruit a super space viking
@@yourfrenghost3028 A punch with a power gauntlet.
Nice little toy, like a reduced size powerfist, doubles strength, high armour penetration, fair damage output.
Against a guy wearing iron age armour at best and most likely no helmet.
Didn't ferrus fight him?
@@is64611 I believe he did, yes yes. Unfortunately, this tale is less recorded than the Wolf King. You have any reference on this topic to share?
Didn't Vulcan have a wrestling match with him?
Viking were bitches in real life. They lost most of their real battles. They were good at raids against unspecting farmers and civilians. Once they lost their novelty and surprise factor,they were pushed around.
I’m not sure where it’s from but Sanguinus see’s himself and Russ to be very similar. He’s a berserker pretending to be a civilised man, and Russ is a civilised man pretending to be a Berserker.
Not Sanguinus, it was the Lion who saw this as such.
@@Narunata247 No, it was Russ who said it
Sanguinius is a civilized man being a civilized man despite having problems that can turn him into a berserker sometimes and Russ is a civilized man pretending to be a berserker
It baffles me that people write off Magnus because of Prospero, the guy fought another Primarch whilst defending his men from bombardment and surrounded by sisters of silence that nullified him and his legions greatest weapon. The fact that he lasted as long as he did and still got some of his legion away to the planet of sorcerers is quite frankly astonishing. If it was just Space Wolves vs Thousand Sons with no sisters of silence then it would be a massacre with wolf corpses everywhere. Russ has very little protection from psykers, especially those of Magnus' level and we know he struggles with precognition (Sanguinius/Kurze). Without blanks nullifying him, Magnus beats just about anyone.
This is true. This is also why the Space Wolves ALWAYS practice a few doctrines: "Who Dares Wins" and the 7 Ps, Prior Preparation and Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. Another words, the Wolves are crazy enough to take on Magnus and his Legion, but not before stacking their deck, hence the Sisters. Even then, with out the sisters, the Wolves would not attack Magnus head on until they found another means to avoid warp casualties because they Adapt and Over come because the Wolves are MASTERS of Organised Chaos.
That's actually not true. The Space Wolves are perhaps the chapter most able to deal with psykers and have natural psychic resistance. Part of their Astartes trials are to gaze into the warp unprotected, in A Thousand Sons one of their wolf priests (read: librarians) saves Magnus's Chief Librarian Ahzek Ahriman (most powerful psyker among a legion of psykers) from falling to the warp, and Logan Grimnar wields a daemon possessed weapon. I honestly don't know where you're pulling anything you said from.
@@blackopsy9 his ass
@@blackopsy9 I think you’re confusing two different kinds of warp resistance. The space wolves are damn near impossible to corrupt with the warp, that is their primary form of resistance. They do have a level of resistance to psychic attacks but not enough for Russ to beat a Magnus in a 1v1 with no outside influence. The canis helix may help keep Russ from being corrupted by the warp but it won’t help much stopping Magnus from tearing him in half
Magnus is now a daemon primarch, arguably more powerful than ever, and has been banished multiple times by regular Astartes.
Everyone likes to mention the presence of the Silent Sisters but conveniently never mention the literal daemons (Tutelaries) and Chaos God helping the Thousand Sons.
The Novel A Thousand Sons specifically mentions Magnus skin burning with power like never before
Well, the Lion was beating Kurze... Until Kurze stopped fighting a duel and started fighting like Night Haunter.
Then The Lion beat Kurze so bad he put him in a Coma. Then he beat him so soundly the third time he snapped his spine. Kurze got away with the first one because The Lion was trying to kill him, not knowing it wasn't his destined death. After finding out he wasn't destined to kill his brother he beat the dog shit out of him each time.
@@djii7837 the first fight loin escaped because he got outside help while curze was ground and pounding him people love to forget that
@@djii7837 you need to remember that when Curze sees a future he will do EVERYTHING to make that future happen, so he sees he won't kill the Lion he will intentionally self-sabotage. As we've seen in 40k the future is not absolute
@@willyschwerin people just love sucking off the loyalists, especially the Lion, Dorn and Sanguinius. But luckily there's some people with reason out here who understand that the traitors are also primarchs and not just punching bags.
@@djii7837 the Lion would have been killed by Curze in their first fight if Corswain didn't intervene. Also Curze was weakened because he was stabbed in the guts mere moments before the fight started.
Everyone: Wolf king, which of your brothers do you think you could beat?
Russ: Yes
Russ: Except Sanguinius (apperantly)
Proceeds to win exactly zero fights against his brothers without an instant win weapon or his brother not fighting at full strength
@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 thats the power of bad writers boys
*Laughs in Sanguinius*
*laughs in Lion*
*confused chain-axe noises*
You meant laughs in heretic
ben robbo drums of Caliban stop.....
@@Zimzilla99 *heretical giggling*
Russ is perhaps stronger than the Lion, but the Lion is perhaps the greater strategist :)
The khan looks at russ and smiles
kurze is a beast! i love that Russ is afraid of the outcome of a battle with him
I wouldn't say he's afraid of the outcome he just can't predict what the Night Haunter would do
@@dukeofawesome3718 Dunno why he would fear a Kurze fight... When you think about it Kurze is a bully that likes to scare weak opponents using over the top violent means.... Leman gets out of his way to fight difficult opponents for bragging rights.
I think a fight between russ and kurze would be the primarch equivalent of Batman vs the joker. Leman is a smart fighter but you just can't predict what kurze will do because he is so insane
let's net forget ,that Conrad Kurze almost killed Rowboat girlyman and the Lion ,,aaaaannnd killed Vulkan several times in ONE NIGHT!!! on mecragge sivitas of all places ,with thousand of ultasmirfs in shooting distance
+ he dueled with the Angel after inuring his first captain (just to make things spissy ) and did not loose in any way ,however Russ was going to end Kurze it would not go to plan and it would be a 40/60 fight at best for Russ
My boy Mortarion as always is getting no love :D
Well said!
What Primarch?
My boy who...? (but I do love mortarion and all the primarchs except angryon)
Loyalist Mortarion is not that strong.
Demon primarch mortarion is probably the strongest traitor after magnus tho.
Don't be sleeping on Corax.
The Khan just smiles.
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Rho... your love of this incredible material, shows through and manifests as top-shelf hosting.
It's like sitting in my living room with pals, discussing the Imperium.
If u could also make beer come out of my cell phone, it would b perfect.
In BL novels, Curze is an interesting subject when it comes to fights. It seems his fighting prowess goes from hilariously overpowered to bordering pathetic, depending on author and what is needed in the given storyline.
In "The unremembered Empire" he single-handedly destroys a large part of the fortress of Hera, murdering scores of Ultramarines and Dark Angels. Then he fights the Lion and Guilliman at the same time seemingly with little trouble. Then in "Angels of Caliban" he is completely overpowered by the Lion alone.
Possible in-lore explanation could be that when his schizo intuition is firing on all cylinders and he can see every move before it happens; he becomes as much of a threat as Sanguinius with rabies, whereas when he's experiencing mental blockage or just quietness of his visons, he becomes far less capable on par with low end primarchs.
But it's most likely just crappy writer continuity in needing him to be at times a genuine threat but also a jobber who the good guys can beat up on
I've heard that the reason the Lion was able to take him was that a.) he had just got an orbital bombardment landed on him, would rattle anyone and b.) apparently the Lion's fighting became so instinctive during the fight that Curze's precognition didn't fully work since even the Lion hadn't figured out what move he was going to make himself.
And because the Lion has by this point fought Kurze twice before.
@@bradymcelroy1627 Also at that point I think the Lion was made aware he wasn't the one destined to kill him, so he just decided to break him.
@@PatienceKiss it has always been like this for the traitor primarchs in general. When have the loyalists ever seemed extremely pathetic? Exactly, never. Because most of the authors are loyalist off-suckers themselves.
I personally think he was just acting too proud.
- Angron is a litteral berserker. A gladiator. Instrument of bloodshed. I think he is a equal match to Russ.
- Fulgrim is a masterful duellist. Expert with his blade. Although i think Russ would still beat him, he would struggle.
- He doesnt even mention Jaghatai because he didnt actually saw him fight. Infact, the Khan’s capabilities is a mystery to most Primarchs.
Leman Russ knows he can't beat Angeron in a one on one fight, which is why he used himself as bait while his Legion isolated and encircled Angeron during the Night of the Wolf (even Lorgar praised this feat).
Also what makes you think Leman Russ would actually duel Fulgrim on his terms because Leman Russ would most likely turn the duel into a brawl where Fulgrims dueling skills wouldn't be much use.
Russ point in all this is he knows all his brothers weaknesses and how to adapt to fight them. People think Russ is just some drunk space Viking. But when you actually know his character you see this is just an act to fool people. He is actually very intellectual and thinks about every move and the best way to bring them down through war or dueling.
@@chaptermastermarneuscalgar6926 your wrong and right he was trying to teach him tactics and how he the nails were holding him back. He wasn't trying to win the duel but rather delay for time so his legion could surround them. Leman even says this himself. If he was trying to actually beat him and take advantage of his anger and the nails he very well likely could for the reasons I said above. And the reason he gave.
@@KonradCurves We are only concerned with the 1 v 1 fights. Angron and Russ is a lot closer than either would admit. Russ underestimated Angron during the Night of the Wolf, his plan to encircle Angron resulting in him crawling on the floor at Angron's mercy (which I highly doubt was according to plan). It doesn't matter how adaptable you are if you are incapable of dealing with something.
Take Magnus vs. Leman. Magnus actually trying to kill Leman outright, marshaling all of his Psychic power into the fight and no outside interference, would win. But Leman won, not only because of his own abilities to nullify Psychic power to a certain extent, but because Magnus didn't want to fight at all, was mentally/physically taxed and drained, surrounded by dying sons and dying homeworld, and surrounded by trained Psychic Blanks. It wasn't exactly a fair fight, and pretty loaded in Leman's favor.
@@trrebi981 again you forget he wasn't trying to win that fight but hold him off. This is stated in the book and from other sources. Russ going for the kill is completely different to Russ trying to teach and hold back. He even stats this in later books. Knowing he could manipulate Angron with his anger. The man basically beat a chaos fulled Horus. Only reason he lost was because plot and he wanted to redeem him.
Seem to recall the Lion decked him 🤣
Of the others, the Khan and Mortarion would be the most interesting fights. Not saying they would beat him but it would be a hell of a contest
As much as i am a die hard fanboy for The motherflipping Dark Angels, that fight was not a deadly duel, it was a pseudo friendly unarmed honour duel. I get the feeling it would just be a stale mate, they would tear chunks off each other to a point where neither would be in a position to finish the other off.
Russ wasn't even as serious as Lion was. The only reason Lion won was because Russ didn't want to kill him and started laughing at their silly brawl.
@@AzraelSoulHunter Exactly which demonstrates my point that many other primarchs lacked a certain characteristic. Russ knew when to STOP. Many primarchs failed to learn that lesson. Johnson, Angron, Horus and his fellow primarchs that turned, Magnus not stopping as the Big E ordered after Nikea, etc etc etc.
I've heard it was a sucker punch
@@hyrumcannon3789 Russ threw the first sucker punch. Lion threw the last. One of them walked away. It wasn't Russ.
"Two sucker punches were thrown that day, only one Primarch walked away..."
Don't see him taking down Jakatai
Lion had russ cold and he knew it, its right there in primarchs leman russ.
except russ thought it was a fight between brothers and the lion was taking it seriously, it explains it right there in the book. ;)
@@lolagyable nope, Russ's internal monologue very clearly states that had the Lion wanted to kill him, he would have done, right after the lion disarms him and hesitates to take the killing blow, then russ counter attacks throwing the lion, no room for interpretation there, no excuses, straight from the horses mouth, Russ knew the lion had him cold, and had the Lion "been taking it seriously" Russ would be dead.
Sanguinius: I have the High ground don't do it....
Russ: Damnit !!!!!!!!!
Its interesting what he said about Guilliman, does he implies that papa smurf would have a greater potential but doesn't fully explore it?
I like to believe he's saying that even though he would be a great fight, Ribbit Gullban is too focused on logic and what's best to even think of dueling
@@2020juan. I think it's also to do with potential though. Horus says similar, papa smurf is talented at war, even at the warmaster level perhaps, except he doesn't... Enjoy? it... He does it out of duty, but would choose other methods if he could. Likewise, I think his combat ability is somewhat stifled by his morals and honor. Just a part of his character.
Something I think is potentially interesting is that because of his way of doing war, Gulliman is often overlooked as a fighter and as a result that he could possibly be culturing that image or idea on purpose. Gulliman is more of a smart fighter so I can see him making it so his opponents underestimate him and then he uses that to his advantage. Just a thought of course.
Best Primarch duelist in no particular order.
- Russ
- Sanguinius
- Horus
- El'Johnson
- Fulgrim
- Konrad
- Khan
- Mortorian
Personally El'Johnson, Russ, Sanguinius, and Fulgrim are the best ones. Konrad was just insane.
Umm Angron?
Everyone keeps forgetting about Vulcan, the Primarch that is literally known to be the strongest and one of the smartest
Can you imagine a duel of Sanguinius and the Night Haunter?
"You would lose." - The Khan
The khan is not gonna beat leeman
Corax comes out of nowhere and stabs Russ in the back.
For all the ones who say Russ beat Magnus, just know he had two thunder wolves to aid him and Sisters of Silence in the background. Just a plain 1v1 with no hindrance in the back Magnus would have defeated Russ. Remember Russ got lucky in the burning of Prospero and almost died.
I mean even with that condition, Magnus punched one of his hearts out man cmon.
For most of the fight magnus didn't fight back, if he'd fought from the start he'd have won
magnus being the most powerful psycher out of all his brothers by a country mile, I do believe is extremely dangerous and if focused he would severely hurt and even kill russ
Why does leman make no talk of Vulkan? Don’t understand why all of his brothers don’t consider Vulkan a warrior king even though he’s described as physically the strongest primarch
Probably the author didn't think about Vulkan. But I'd love to see some interaction between Russ and Vulkan. That's on my wish list!
Wolf Lord Rho I can imagine russ jesting about having a fight and Vulkan just laughing in his face making a joke of it. Possibly to allow russ to keep his dignity or because at heart Vulkan is gentle soul that only fights to defend. What do you imagine Vulkan would do if russ challenged him?
@@forgefartherloki6585 I've herd Vulcan stands in his power armour as tall as Horus in full terminator gear :O and swipes tanks away with his power hammer like play things !!! oh and he regenerates? whose this Russ?
Ugobro1 exactly! Forget russ! Vulkan is best primarch!
lol none of the primarchs can even imagine to start a fight with best bro
Russ carries the Emperor's spear, a weapon he despises. It apparently carries a part of the big E in it and I suspect that is what gives Russ an advantage in combat.
Wonder how far Russ could go against Dorn while serious considering how well Dorn did against Fulgrim.
There’s nothing flashy about Dorn apart from his armor. In my mind he’s like the type of veteran fighter that has total economy of motion down. No energy wasted on anything that isn’t 100% lethal.
Sanguinius and Curze both had the power of foresight, meaning that beating someone who predicts your actions is pretty hard.
Tell that to the lion
@@dracogatom7873 who should have been killed on Tsugualsa by Curze if Corswain didn't intervene.
the Lion wants the impression of his knuckles back from your face Russ
In fighting arts there is a saying..styles make fights. This means that certain styles of fighting can trump other styles even if the loser is more talented.
@Vulkan Primarch of the Salamanders absolutely. Take it from someone who has studied Korean and European sword arts for 11 years and has competed in national tournaments..noobs are to be feared for their unpredictability. They will do things more experienced fighters know enough not to do, and catch you off guard.
This is only remotely true when there is an arbitrary rule set.
That's one thing i agree with there is always a lucky strike anyone can win it all comes down to one lucky strike but talent does play a part in a fist fight and sword fight but when it comes to someone trying to kill you I've seen it many times that it's a whole different rodeo
@@temmy9 not only noobs tho. When I competed in Karate, I developed a style that was quite unknown to my opponents. I would often use momentum to attack from weird angles and different mind games to secure easy hits. Also, no matter what situation I was in, I was pretty creative and so found ways to recover from a disadvantage. Once I learned to play my opponents I never lost a fight again.
Forget which book but the Lion is said to be the best duelist of the primarchs
Ya this is mentioned or hinted at a couple of times, but it is also disputed by Sanguinius. In some novels it is suggested that he (Sanguinius) is the best duelist (problem with multiple writers all getting to write into canon). That being said in one of the books I forget which one, but the Lion is dueling Guilliman and Guilliman realizes fairly quickly that his is rather outmatched by the Lion because as he notes the Lion not only fights with superb dueling skill (even for a Primarch), but that even in a duel he fights like it is a battlefield, in the sense that he employs strategy in such a way that it seems like you are playing into his very hand by the end. Like his every move was planned to get you to make your every move, so that by the end you are basically doing only what he wants you to do. Like a superior commander on the field, he lures you in and with each stroke you start to dance to his tune as opposed to actually resisting him. Lorgar once commented that the Lion must be the loneliest of the Primarchs because he seemed to be just a step above them in the art of war. Since the Primarchs were largely made for the sole purpose of war (kinda) this meant that even among the other Primarchs the Lion felt alone (and probably in a large part lead to his quiet yet strong arrogance). Malcador in a meeting with all the Primarchs at one point remarked that out of all the Primarchs the Lion felt like an apex predator among them. I believe that in that same short story it is mentioned that the Lion is the only one who made Malcador uncomfortable. Though this might just be due to the fact that his loyalties where difficult to read. Guilliman mentions that the Lion is the only one of his brothers he actually wished he could be more like (warrior wise). All in all the Lion is set up to be the ultimate "warrior" primarch. He is an unbelievalbe duelist (if not better than, at least close to par with Sanguinius), he is fairly regularly portrayed as the best strategist of the Primarchs (he could do with 100 what another Primarch would struggle to do with 1000), and has a very 'ends justify the means' mentality, which allowed him to do things some of his other brothers would not. IHO I think as a _pure_ duelist Sanguinius is _suppose_ to be considered a little better, but I think that the Lion might eek ahead because a duel to him is not stroke/counter-stroke, it's a battlefield with strategy and not just skill, as Guilliman points out. The Lion though is horrendously behind in a lot of other areas compared to the other Primarchs: Charisma, solving basically _any_ situation without violence, towering pride, basically social retardation. He, Guilliaman, Sanguinius, and Dorn could be considered the ultimate team. Sanguinius to rule an empire, the Lion to conquer/fight for it, Guilliman to build/run it, and Dorn to defend it.
Hand-to-hand or weapons? I think weapons, the sword
Good jobb!! Keep on spreading the word of the holy emperor and his angels
Thank you!
The Primarch Novel Leman Russ, Leman admits that the Lion beat him.
Yeah, because Russ STOPPED fighting, and was laughing his ass off at the silliness of the situation. Sucker punches count as beating someone, sure it counts. Life and death though.... The lion better start digging his grave. Alas, fortunately it would never come to that.
@@CuChulainnwd No he admits it at the beginning of the story when he sat the blood claw down and told him what happened
Overwhelming rage at the audacity to not make corax the center of the conversation
Everyone's mainstreamed lol, they like the corny space Wolfs and blood angles, they don't think of emperor's children, iron warriors,white scars
Russ thinks that he could defeat VULKAN?
Father made me the strongest
william Miranda honestly even if he didn't beat him he could just come back and try again until it works lol.
Well, I actually find it highly possible that Russ defeats Vulkan.
The thing about Vulkan is, he once stated by himself, that he always kept back his true strenght in training duells in fear of hurting one of his brothers and in another conversation with Dorn he stated that he wouldn't be able to deal the final blow to one of his brothers.
Russ on the other hand has no problem with beating down or even killing other primarchs. I think he would hesitate as much with Vulkan as he did with Horus when it's all about the killing blow, but in a duell till unconciousness, I think Russ would win.
@@GodlordBazi How exactly do you kill Vulkan tho?
He's a perpetual, its like a primarch terminator, in that fight against Curze he just kept getting back up, and everytime Curze put him down, he realised Vulkan was regenerating faster every time, so the longer the fight goes on, the worse fighting Vulkan gets, as you start to get tired, you're also getting less and less of a break each time.
Eventually Russ (or anyone else) would run out of steam...
@@stevepalpatine2828 Yeah, that might be true, but the thing with perpetuals is, that they can die a true death and just manifest themselves somewhere else.
It's just that Russ might not be able to obliterate Vulkan to such a degree that something like that happens. That's more a thing Magnus would be capable of I think.
@@GodlordBazi Yeah Magnus could take him apart on an atomic level.
Russ (or just about any other primarch) I think in a fight to the death would be screwed.
The fight with Curze is a great example of what happens trying to fight a blood lusted Vulkan who's only thought is to smash not hug.
At one point Curze was like "Oh for fucks sake" after Vulkan got up for about the fifth time after being thrown off a balcony, having his head smashed in with a mace etc and he realises not only will he not stay down, he keeps getting up quicker lol
GEoM could beat him and Magnus, I dont know any others with the level of power, barring hitting him with a cyclonic torpedo or some shit.
Angron is indisputably the best brawler. In any situations where you have two primarchs on opposite sides, staring each other down and then charge at the same time to duke it out in single combat, if one of them was Angron, he would win. Every time, save perhaps against Sanguinius. The thing is if Leman Russ actually wanted to kill Angron, he wouldn't be stupid enough to try that. He'd strike at a moment when Angron was unprepared, possibly when the Nails had pushed him even further beyond reason than he is most of the time, or throwing a land raider in his face first before manouvering to strike from behind. Or he'd decide that since the goal is to kill Angron, not to prove his own superiority to a bunch of wolf-loving nerds, he'd use himself to lure Angron out, knowing he's strong enough to endure Angron's attacks while relying on his legion to go for the throat with las-cannons and plasma weapons.
I think Angron would be one of the easiest primarchs to defeat pre daemonhood, how easy it would be to goad him into something stupid while hes blind with rage.
I completely agree with you angron is amazing
This actually happened in one of the books. Russ dueled him as a distraction not trying to win the duel but surround him and his legion. When Angron thought he won by beating Russ to the ground he told him to look around him. The wolves had surrounded him and his legion and could kill them all as soon as Angron moved. But he didn't understand this and still thought he'd won. Because Russ was trying to teach him tactics and how the nails were holding him back.
Snip the nails away with one sweep, Angron dies.
woget264 think about what he has survived. You’re not just gonna hit em with a bolter when he ain’t looking. He’s a warrior who has spent all of his military life on the front lines of every fight and before that he was a savage gladiator. He’s outmatched a titan in strength. Taken point blank plasma blasts. Survived a building falling on top of him and climbing through 300 meters of debris. That being said I agree he would have to mill Angron by outsmarting him as he would never win a face to face fight
Is there a book about Rogal Dorn? Out of all the Primarchs, I see in him and his Legion the shining example of what the Emperor's Great Crusade was all about! They are Crusaders and Conquerors without question and display unerring loyalty to the Cause.
Uh you just described the dark angels
Lion: come and find out wolf but beware a lion has claws, fangs, and better hair
Rus left the Lion out because he knows it would be an even match and hes boasting here, nothing more.
Rus and the Lion have always had a lot of tension and even fought before and were evenly matched. Rus has strong feels about his brother the Lion and omits him while hes boasting because he knows they are evenly matched but wont admit it, at least not in this moment. Rus the Lion and Sanguinius are the top 3 Primarchs in single combat excluding Horus
Angron and Curze 4 and 5 respectively
Angron is an absolute beast and Curze is a maniac but they lack skill and discipline and that keeps them from the top 3
I feel the Khan is the "x" factor in this calculation, we don't know shit about how the Khan would approach a fight with it's brothers
@@mqw.4377 that's a good point. He was a swordsman too. And he clearly thought he could beat fulgrim. Theres no way to know but I would bet the Khan could hold his own against the top 3. Theres honestly no way to make a definite top 3 because of what we dont know.
I remember reading one of the codexes or something saying the only 2 that russ really thought he would straight up lose to was sanguinius and magnus, sanguinius by blade and magnus by psyker abilities
And yet the Lion had both disarmed and beaten Russ during the aftermath of the Dulan Campaign.
To be fair Russ was playing around with him.
@@knightlord5962
Leman kind of gave up fighting near the end and burst out laughing because he realised that their fight was now competely pointless.
He continued to laugh even as he saw the Lions fist coming straight toward his face and made no effort to stop the knock out punch, possibly because he realised the Lion's pride wouldn't let him back down from the fight.
@@chaptermastermarneuscalgar6926 Yep, which means there is more cunning, and analytical thinking going on in Russ' ringing head than the Lion's. If it came down to who would live, the Lion would be digging his own grave in advance.
@@CuChulainnwd Leman Russ also hides true intelligence and noble qualities behind the facade of a savage barbarian.
In a sense he is the polar oppisite of Sanguinius, which is a conclusion Sanguinius came to in the Wolfsbane book.
"Russ was playing around with him"
Yeah I suppose that's how the Lion was able to throw Russ through a table and then knock him out cold. No, he did not "let the Lion knock him out". The Lion completely fucked him.
More Night Lords please and thank you!
Great video this got you a subscribe from me! Keep the Russ stuff coming!
I just can't see Russ beating the Khan in a one on one.
"Lorgar I could spit on"LOL id like to see him fight Corax cause Corax was no joke
I loved that line too. Some more Corax interaction with other Primarchs would be great!
Richard Valdes - Rasmussen
why was Corax a joke?
@@bluebuda8170 I said he was no joke. Hes my fav primarchs. He was one of the best fighters in my mind
Richard Valdes - Rasmussen
oh yeah I see that now sorry I'm stupid. can't read. me.too thats why i asked. i think corax was the common sense down to earth Primarch w/bad ass aesthetics.
@@bluebuda8170 dude those wings the claws and the whip. So epic. Plus he really wasnt afraid of sneaking up and stabbing fellow primarchs
The more I see the lore, the more I think that Sanguinius is a freaking beast, all mentions of him are to praise his skills
The lion dusts off his knuckles
Idk why people think Russ "Held back" vs Angron. That makes literally no sense. The author didn't intend it people to think that. It was to show that although Angron can 1v1 Russ, 1v1s don't matter because war is team game.
Why doesn't it?
You said it yourself war is a team game.
You really think that Angron would have learned anything if Russ handed him is head all the while the wolves were doing all sorts of team stuff to the world eaters?
Russ doesn't seem like the type of guy who would literally crawl away from his brother just in the hopes of teaching him a lesson. He underestimated angron and his arrogance got the better of him. His plan was that if he couldn't defeat him 1 v 1 then he would demonstrate the difference between the SW and WE, and that's what happened
@@yerauldda6955 He was trying to teach his brother a lesson not kill him, so crawling away is just part of it,
besides Later on Horus had Russ dead to rights and Russ very clearly proved that he could have killed him if he wanted to.
@@SupComRaiden2 russ is too arrogant/isn't humble enough to humiliate himself in front of his legion by crawling on hands and knees to teach his brother a lesson. He thought he could take angron 1 v 1 and couldn't
@@SupComRaiden2 If you think so low of Russ that you believe he would throw away the countless lives of his own legionaries and make a complete ass of himself by getting owned, simply to prove a point... that's your opinion. In reality though, he simply made the mistake of underestimated Angron.
What about the Khan??
I think Russ will win in a fist fight but I doubt with swords. Only my opinion
how would a space marine beat a primarch?
@@is64611 He can't or at least he shouldn't be able too (plot armour)
@@is64611 Jaghatai Khan is a primarch tho...
@@RottenMemorial He may have mixed-up The Khan with Kharne . . . The Betrayer
Granted, even Kharne would have a chance against Russ: post Khorne Enhanced Kharne that is.
@@preciousakpata5260 More likely he mixed up "The Great Khan" with "A Khan" all White Scar Captains are Khans, just not The Khan.
The Wolf Lord is powerful, but fangs and claws break upon iron. Iron within, Iron without!
i like how the lion beats konrad, and leman is like, i cant beat konrad, but totaly take the lion
I think the Lion gives Russ an epic smackdown
great topic.
I get the impression from Russ that he seems to be holding something back. That he never really shows all he has. His fights with the others appear to be orchestrated more to teach a lesson than for him to win. Like the fight with Angron. Russ is like an elder brother willing to take losses and great pain to help the others see their flaws. We saw that in his relationship with the Lion. Russ understood that the Lion struggled for control and tried to give him someone to focus that on. Someone that wouldn’t turn their back on him. All culminating in that moment when the Lion sinks his blade in. He helped the Lion learn something about himself and his impulses. Russ has tried to be an elder brother to the rest and usually comes off as a dick to the ones that are too literal and can’t see what he is doing.
When Russ is serious and most importantly fighting to kill I think he could indeed beat most of the others as he claims.
I think he could beat Sangunius (he's highly overrated) - though he's not sure himself. This means that the fight can go both ways.
Love the Mechanicus soundtrack in the background
My take on this passage was that Russ doesn't mention the Lion in this list out of respect.
What a fantastic idea a blood angel and space wolf novel Sanguinius and Russ the Angel and the Wolf together maybe having a good old scrap with a great Ork Waaggg!!!!
The Lion missed a huge opportunity that one time he knocked out Russ. If I were him I would’ve cut off all of Russ’s hair and written “LOSER” on his forehead.
Man, all the primarchs diss Corax!!!!
Vulcan destroys the nighthaunter with one arm and naked in like 10 secconds
sry just kinda spat that out, channel gets me hyped every time lol awsome stuff.
To me, it looks like some Primarchs are either more brain (Magnus, Guilliman, etc) or more brawn (Angron, Vulkan).. but a few rare ones like Johnson and Perturabo are both.
Russ flat says in his primarch novel that Lion beat him. He also said they ended up finally coming together and was heartbroken when Lion went missing.
Had lorgar heard what russ said about how easily he could beat him, he would have been so burnt he would have stayed in the warp for eternity
Poor Lorgar...
I could learn how to defeat Russ, but he could defeat me if I had no preparation.
Primarch Roboute Guilliman, Lord Commander ok Batman
If anything you would lose the duel but you would probably win the war.
Maybe if you created a manual on how to beat Russ, you'd have a better time preparing
Roboute you would thrash your brother russ, there is no doubt in my heart, soul and mind.
Besides you have the support of your big tiddy eldar girlfriend.
Thinks he can beat the Lion with the snap of a finger, yet Johnson knocked him out with a right hook? Ok Space Pups.
"A moment of Laxity spawns a life time of heresy. Stay vigilant brothers"
On the other hand he thinks he'd lose to Sanguinius, yet he beats Horus whole Sanguinius dies without much effort from the warmaster's part
I wonder how Russ would consider Guilliman if he saw RG enraged and punching SM heads off in space?
The Lion fought him to a standstill, and then "won" when the Wolf stop fighting and started laughing.
Lion had the advantage all the fight.
If it were a fight to the death The Lion would have killed him before the brawl started. He disarms Russ almost immediately and tells him to yield, to which Russ gets mad at and sucker punches him. Then they fight for three days and it only ends when The Lion puts him through a table which makes Russ laugh. The Lion, having been insulted twice now by Russ, thinks its another one and knocks his ass out.
Didn't Angron beat Russ in Canon? Wolves beat World Eaters but didn't Angron beat Russ pretty badly in a duel? Also Lion beats Russ, and Russ himself agreed that Lion is the best in his Primarch book.
The Lion, Khan, and Corvus I'd put on his list of those he either couldn't beat or at the very least have a great deal of trouble with them.
I'd like to see Marines saying 'ugh I reckon 3 of your veterans could down a Primach'. Then Sanguinius and Russ have a lets show them what we are sparring. and they put on a SHOW for the boys.
What about Ferrus Manus? Or no cuz he’s dead? :p
He lost his head
He's been dead for a while at this point in the lore. Fulgrim chopped his head off.
Ferrus is not only dead but he was an anus that nobody wanted to work with because he couldn't control himself.
Ferrus said that none of his brothers wanted to fight him because they were afraid, but it was because he wasn't reliable to just spar.
@@kingbaldwiniv5409 source on your claim?
@@kubapiwowarczyk599, The fight which begins on page 178 and proceeds for several pages which is found in, "Ferrus Manus, Gorgon of Medusa".
Ferrus is without a doubt the WORST AND LEAST USEFUL tool in the Emperor's arsenal of primarchs.
He is a waster of resources (loyal legionaries), inefficient, inconsiderate, does not work well with others, is prone to Khorne-like outbursts, and makes any sure victory a challenge.
Read the book.
Nah, Curze is a killer, not a fighter. He prefers to jump his opponents from the shadows, but in the light of day he isn't that skilled. Still dangerous due to his erratic moves and dirty tricks, though. Corax withdrew for an entirely different reason. He gave in to rage and when Curze showed up, it was like looking at a distorted mirror image of himself. He suddenly realized, how little it would have taken him to become like Curze. That shook him to his core. This is revealed either in "Deliverance lost" or a short story in another book.
He literally saw the future, hence why Sevetar lasted with Sigismund in a duel.
@@YourStylesGeneric321 Sevatar has limited precognition, which acts as if he had superhuman reflexes (more superhuman). Curze' ability to look into the future is very different.
There hasn't been enough sanguinius at all in this series, he recently killed 3 titans in as many swings in the novel saturnine, he broke Kabandah over his knee and that guy was a demon prince.
Bloodthirster.
However I don't think the emperors primarchs missed their marks by much. Russ is the executioner. I think it's built into him to hammer other Primarchs. He could slay them all? Maybe not?
I think that Russ is definitely one of the better fighters but I’m disappointed he didn’t mention the Lion who had beaten someone who he wasn’t sure he could beat, etc.
Probably still salty after the lion broke his nose
This! The lion beat Kurze twice!
According to the lore the lion has best russ twice so yeah.
I’m not to surprised when Russ mentions he’s not entirely sure if he & Konrad Curze The Night Haunter actually fought he could win. Because of how utterly insane Konrad is. Plus if it wasn’t 4 a certain Loyalist Iron Warrior Warsmith called Dantioch I believe. I could be wrong on the name or spelling but Kronad would have managed to either out right kill or severely injure both Roboute Guilliman & Lion El Johnson while he was on a Dark Angels Starship & then got down onto Maccrage & caused a whole bunch of destruction & death. & if it wasn’t 4 Dantioch & the alien machine called the Pharos. Konrad led both Primarch’s into a room rigged to explode but thanks 2 Dantioch managing 2 reach out & grab onto them & pull them through the “portal” which brought them onto one of the planets in Ultramar which possessed the Pharos Machine... the way it was written made it sound like both loyal Primarch’s would have died from the actions of the Night Haunter. & when Guilliman found out from the Lion that Cruze was loose on board his ship & then used a mass ejection of drop pods to get onto Macragge... it was a literal man hunt 4 The Night Haunter & he was putting the planet & its loyalists to shame with how well he moved around & would set up traps while covering a lot of ground & slaughtering many Space Marines in the process.
Wolf Lord Rho - I love your content. Thank you so much for all your hard work. You are clearly an intelligent, thoughtful individual with a deep appreciation for the lore.
I disagree with your analysis regarding Angron. I am working my way through the Horus Heresy via audiobook, so unfortunately, I cannot look up specific passages (and I am writing this on my iPhone from the gym), but it seems to me there is significant evidence to suggest Angron is the most dangerous physical combatant of the Primarchs. He handily defeats Gulliman. I disagree with your perspective regarding Russ. I read that victory as legitimate, despite Russ’ post-defeat commentary. Angron is described early on in the series as significantly larger and far more physically powerful than Horus. He shows Horus little deference and there are one-two instances where Horus backs down from him, despite his own pride and temper. Lorgar comments that it is imperative that he turn Horus AND Angron, as those are the only two Primarchs capable of defeating Sanguinius. Angron physically prevented a Warhound from crushing Lorgar. There are numerous further examples without even delving into Angron’s background and physical combat experience.
Unless further reading changes my opinion, I would have to say it is *very* clear that on a balance of probabilities, Angron would be more likely to best any other Primarch in open, physical combat than not.
It is a tragedy that he goes on to essentially become a mindless blood-thirster. I find his character *incredibly* compelling.
Keep making these fantastic videos.
I think its split roughly in half. Russ would lose to the following imo: Horus, Sanguinius, Lion, Vulcan, Corax, Khan, Curze, Perturabo, Fulgrim, Mortarion. He would beat the others.
>Perturbed Robert beats Russ
>Angron doesn't
Opinion, discarded.
Lorgar is ridiculously underated, his strengths are more subtle compared to russ or angron, but he's far from a push-over
I don't think Leman was interested in experiencing Lorgar's strength as a powerbottom
Lol no, Lorgar was the weakest of the primarchs without question. He had psychic might, but in a melee contest, he was milquetoast. Corax OWNED him on Istavaan and only Kurze's intervention saved Lorgar from seeing what his insides looked like before he died.
@@jimh.1590 loggy was equal to Guilliman in Betrayer and only used a psychic blast once. Their strength was shown to be equal. Lorgar aint no combat monster like Corax but he aint weak
@@t.schramm1045 Again, the physically weakest by a large margin. Lorgar barely managed to draw with Bobby G who's not really the most bad-ass of the 20.
Id like to see Rus and Cruze fight both have had many fights with brothers
Lehman Russ: *snaps his fingers*
Other Primarchs: *keels over and die*
Big-E: "LEHMAN!!!!!!!!!!!"
Lehman Russ: *escapes to the Eye of Terror to try and revive the Big-E and the rest of his brothers*