Batteries designed for cars are not optimal for grid storage. A grid storage battery does not need to have to have high energy density, but must cost much less than present designs.
present designs are clearly adequate as Tesla can't keep up with orders. But better cost effectiveness is definitely needed to reach 4 minimum days of storage needed.
@@mike160543 It is the numbers that show the real possibility in warm latitudes. Australia for example. Battery Vehicles battery is for the long drive, but most vehicles are PARKED 23 hours every day. Say 100kwh battery. Home batteries are 10kwh size. 10,000 miles per year, 10,000 hours per year or less. Nobody drives that slow, Vehicles drive 1 hr per day. 7kwh. Battery management technologies are extending the battery life, and recycling businesses are not getting enough vehicle batteries. Degradation levels are much lower than designed expected. Rapid charging every 10 days as normal ICE vehicles do now for petrol. So 100kwh x 20 million is 2,000gWh storage daily. Fossil fueled 25gW x 24hr is 600gWh maximum generation. Nuclear promoters want to supply base load only say 7 gw x 24hr is 170gWh. The rest renewables. The numbers tell you they are bs. So, just battery vehicles overnight V2G has the capacity. Nuclear talks about UTILIZATION of their investments 24/7, but customers with BVs OVERSIZED battery will use their dirt cheap electricity by making the best UTILIZATION of their own investment. Batteries should be cheaper in the future of replacement batteries. Basically, the battery storage is 5 times bigger than nationally needed on avg. Now 20 million buildings with rooftop PV 7kw x 5hr x 20 million is 700gWh daily. And over 5hr is much too big for the grid that is designed to handle only 25gW per hour. So BVs oversized battery is FREE to store excess daily. Every time the sunshines grid demand will be dead. Cashflow is dead. Grid cashflow max is 600gWh x 50cents kWh is $300million daily, $110BILLON for the $1,000Billion grid infrastructure. Central generation is dirt cheap electricity at 5cents kWh and it is dead cashflow also. 4million rooftop PV plus 10% more each year. Millions of EV or BVs are in production now. Horse meat was cheap when the Ford model T production line started. It ran for 20years. Sold every model T.
@@tsamuel6224Sodium-ion batteries are about equivalent to lithium right now, but lithium is likely to rise in price again, while sodium will get even cheaper as bigger factories come online. I wonder if we'll see $1 per amp hour for yer bog standard 12v 100ah camper battery?
Energy density does not matter for grid storage. Half the density? Build the boxes twice as high. What is important is the cost, the longevity and the ability to meet demand instantly. Energy density only matters in transport applications. Na S solutions sound great. Is that installation in the La Trobe valley? It makes sense to locate batteries on the sites of coal fired generators, because the transmission lines are there already.
Been saying Sodium-Ion is going to overtake lithium for a few years now. It's just so much cheaper to source and that much safer. China is leading currently, but we need other nations to catch up to ensure a stable supply.
@@SigFigNewtonFlow batteries, with the chemicals stored safely apart? Military has considerations of robustness and damage effects as high priorities.
As it has been for 20+ years and anything tat is invented in a lab as a less than 1% chance of being able to be produced in large scale or at a comparable cost.
@@plinble protectionist policies such as the huge tax on Chinese EVs are essentially an admission that the US can’t sell comparable vehicles for comparable prices
2:07 This depends on sodium ion chemstry. Prussian blue anode (PBA) last longer than LFP. But have relatively low energy density (120-150 Wh/kg). Uses abundant materials such as Sodium, Carbon, Iron and nitrogen. (Lasts 5000 cycles as of 2023) Layered Oxide have relatively high energy density (150+ Wh). But has lower cycle life than LFP. It has a cycle life of 3000. Sodium PBA would be the one used for grid storage.
I saw this article too. It's an important bit of research, but the 400 cycle life time is too low. They need a cycle life time 4 or 5 times greater than that to make it competitive.
If you can buy an easily replaceable like for like module, built to a common standard for not too much USD, people may live with it. People generally don't expect tyres to last as long as the vehicle.
Sodium PBA will be the way forward for home and grid energy storage I think, not sure whether LFP will be fully overtaken by other sodium designs. Every year they try to develop a new sodium battery that can match the base energy density of LFP, LFP improves in energy density and cost.
I'm actually quite supportive of sodium tech We need to store power from renewable for the grid ans match them up when demand is high and there is not enough lithium for that
Per Grok, JAC motors is delivering soium battery EVs. I do agree most announced sodium EVs haven't made it to market. CATL's batteries are the anticipated enabler. That said, I expect 20% to 40% of the battery pack to be lithium for acceleration (low peak current from sodium).
The key to battery chemistries moving forward will be separation and merging of technologies. Where low cost, massive battery installations (probably using sodium) will replace existing coal and gas powered peaker plants for community and industry electricity supply. And I also see sodium batteries used in hybrid battery packs in automobiles where they might use high density, expensive solid state batteries together with 2nd generation sodium batteries to provide quick power for local driving needs, and extended power for occasional longer trips. But still matching or exceeding the price, capabilities and overall weight/size of NCM battery packs today.
The national electrical grid is a $TRILLIONS infrastructure investment. 10decades to build. National wealth invested. It should be protected. Battery Vehicles oversized battery topped up daily and parked 23hrs every day at every building and home with rooftop PV can protect the grid. Up to 20million buildings and 20million vehicles can combine. The 20million customers can become self generating. And suppliers of dirt cheap electricity to the grid. New heavy industrial customers can now become 100% electric and fossil free. So yes, better battery technologies can save the national grid and the environment from CO2 emissions. Happy days 😊😊😊
Happy dream maybe, but the laws of physics - at least as they have been officially disclosed - will not allow sufficient battery storage. It’s just not possible to make enough batteries to store the amount of electricity required plus Solar energy is never cheap. To say otherwise makes you sound like they did in the 1950s - atomic power was going to make electricity too cheap to meter!!
@sullivanrachael good comment. It is the numbers that show the real possibility. Battery Vehicles battery is for the long drive, but most vehicles are PARKED 23 hours every day. Say 100kwh battery. Home batteries are 10kwh size. 10,000 miles per year, 10,000 hours per year or less. Nobody drives that slow, Vehicles drive 1 hr per day. 7kwh. Battery management technologies are extending the battery life, and recycling businesses are not getting enough vehicle batteries. Degradation levels are much lower than designed expected. Rapid charging every 10 days as normal ICE vehicles do now for petrol. So 100kwh x 20 million is 2,000gWh storage daily. Fossil fueled 25gW x 24hr is 600gWh maximum generation. Nuclear promoters want to supply base load only say 7 gw x 24hr is 170gWh. The rest renewables. The numbers tell you they are bs. So, just battery vehicles overnight V2G has the capacity. Nuclear talks about UTILIZATION of their investments 24/7, but customers with BVs OVERSIZED battery will use their dirt cheap electricity by making the best UTILIZATION of their own investment. Batteries should be cheaper in the future of replacement batteries. Basically, the battery storage is 5 times bigger than nationally needed on avg. Now 20 million buildings with rooftop PV 7kw x 5hr x 20 million is 700gWh daily. And over 5hr is much too big for the grid that is designed to handle only 25gW per hour. So BVs oversized battery is FREE to store excess daily. Every time the sunshines grid demand will be dead. Cashflow is dead. Grid cashflow max is 600gWh x 50cents kWh is $300million daily, $110BILLON for the $1,000Billion grid infrastructure. Central generation is dirt cheap electricity at 5cents kWh and it is dead cashflow also. 4million rooftop PV plus 10% more each year. Millions of EV or BVs are in production now. Horse meat was cheap when the Ford model T production line started. It ran for 20years. Sold every model T.
@@sullivanrachael sodium batteries and other technologies are evolving rapidly so it could be very real. Nuclear electricity industries in every country should include the cost of exploding military defence budgets. Central electricity generation MUST HAVE AN extremely expensive grid connection to millions and millions and millions of customers. It is the massive costs of the grid and not the dirt cheap generation of dirt cheap electricity that is a massive limitation on widespread Central generation, nuclear generation. Nuclear promoters say exactly that. Located the new in the grid centre because new grid makes dirt cheap electricity expensive electricity. So customers rooftop PV and BVs oversized battery is perfect.
Taking your numbers for granted, yes, homes with solar panels could help. But many vehicles aren’t sat on the home driveway during solar output hours. They are at work with their owners. True, that working at home disrupts the traditional workplace models. However, EVs aren’t proving popular in the U.K.; reaching 10% adoption rates. Those that can use them have them. As for the horse analogy - very good. The Ford Model T was a disruptive technology as it used mass production to put cost-effective cars in the hands of working people. Faster than horses too. And not as maintenance intense. De-coking a cylinder head doesn’t need doing as often as mucking out a stable!!
@@sullivanrachael l like your thinking. My thoughts are that every carpark space has a $60 wall outlet and the BV's selfparking selfplug-in, front bumper plug-in. Trickle currents all day long and all night long. Vehicles drive building to building. Rapid chargers on the main roads and at corner stores if needed. On the home front. No grid electricity, savings. No gas heating and cooking and hotwater, savings. Rondo heat battery. No petroleum, savings. Oversized rooftop PV can also supply the grid with dirt cheap electricity for the new industrial heavy electricity users. The new cashflow for the grid owners and no new grid construction. If CO2 emissions and warming latitudes and clean electricity then understanding that 80% of all energy used is fossil fueled, then grid electricity expansion is impossible from a grid central supply. The existing grid has to be UNLOADED from all building loads and work backwards, be the collector and transmitter to new customers. Yes I am in Australia, but 80% of the world's population live in warm latitudes. All latitudes are warming. The grid must have cashflow and nuclear electricity or even distant renewables electricity will fail when they sunshines 🌞 in our future world. We must think about how small grid capacity is and how expensive grid construction is. If we are to make real decisions.
Lithium will likely be replaced by sodium. You don't need AI to predict that. Ubiqutous super charging will make range far less important, so battery density will also be less important. Saftey and battery operating performance will increase in importance.
I just want reasonable priced home energy storage 1k for 5kwh is too high. Cant wait to get some sodium batteries.Instead of trying to guess when Sodium becomes dominant why not just ask RethinkX and Tony?
As I understand it, liquid metal & molten salt batteries are inherently lower density because the interface between liquids is smooth, so they depend on long lifespan and low cost materials to be cost effective. The long lifespan comes from liquids having no metal fatigue in the battery itself with metal fatigue only in the power connectors. If you have lifespans of a few hundred thousand cycles the LCOE would be low even if the batteries are heavy but low cost materials.
The question that decides everything for both Renewable Grids and Electrifying Transport is what price per KWH of storage can we mass produce batteries at ? Now a bit of work with breaking down a battery to commodities gives this for a Powerwall. ' Total Estimated Cost of Raw Commodities ie Lithium/ Copper /Steel / etc etc etc Adding these together, the total estimated cost of the raw commodities for a Tesla Powerwall is approximately AUD $830.40. This estimate does not include manufacturing, R&D, logistics, and other operational costs, which significantly increase the final price. ' This shows that we have a long long way to go in cutting battery costs via mass manufacturing as the commodities is close to 5% of the price we are paying for the final product.
Sodium and iron air batteries better option than lithium for grid and home storage due to lower costs. Weight not as important in these uses. Lithium likely still king for transport though.
The question for me, is whether anything can compete with Cu\ graphite \ LiFePO4 \ Al batteries. As these can have a cycle life of 6000-10,000 cycles while avoiding the expensive Ni and Co which is great for grid storage. Unfortunately, my understanding is NaFePO4 doesn't work so well, the best performing cathodes are of the NaFe0.5Mn0.5O2 variety which don't cycle as well. So although Al \ hard carbon \ NaFe0.5Mn0.5O2 \ Al batteries completely eliminate any expensive metals such as Li and Cu, the downside on the grid is lower longevity which impacts the levelised cost of energy
I would like to now where to get the specs on the tesla model c @ $7000us. @ the moment there is nothing available. the same goes for the PI phone. When will Tesla introduce the sodium battery? When will the Bidirectional cable be introduced with Tesla?
Tesla is the best car company ever! No gas stations, no oil changes, no smog checks, no catalytic converter, no maintenance, 89% customer retention and quicker than a $650,000 Lamborghini!
@@FrankGallagherr Its Just a stinky little carcompany that sells around 1.75 Million Cars this year!Less the last year!BYD already outsells Tesla!Tesla is a sinking ship!
What happens to all the Chlorine separated from salt (NaCl) to make sodium batteries? Chlorine is toxic. Is that going to be a huge environmental hazard? Can it be chemically combined to render it non toxic?
I disagree on one winner. As noted in video Sodium will be far cheaper. Lithium is lighter, delivers far more amps (higher peak horsepower), higher energy density. Sodium is great for lower cost EVs, but even they need some Lithium cells for high acceleration (sodium handles cruise and moderate acceleration). High performance EVs will remain Lithium. Ground storage will go sodium. Low cost EV will have cells that are mostly sodium, but 20% to 40% lithium. Semis will remain Lithium The market will rationally fragment.
@@SigFigNewton Think a cheap replacement for the Nissan leaf, but with 2x and later 3x the range. The JAC sodium EV has 252km (157 mile) range vs. Leaf 117km (73 miles). JAC and BYD are going to sell at prices, in USD, of $12k to $15k. Of course there will be a huge market. Heck, getting EVs cheaper than any ICE will reignite the low end car market. There will be demand for a 350km+ (200 mile+) cheap EV too. Sodium is an enabler, while higher end cars will have lithium.
Sodium batteries made sense when lithium was US$80k per tonne, at $10K per tonne they make no sense, heavier, shallow charge/discharge cycle, much lower energy density and shorter life cycle, all that any barely any difference in cost.
There are various battery chemistries shown on this chanel, but I've never seen anything about the Battery Management Systems, (BMS) especially the cooling, which for Tesla is critical to get the performance and longevity. Why is that? Tesla has flattened tubes that weave through and around every other row of cells. How are the other MFG's competing on their cooling systems?
You are describing machine learning here. Sampling every material option and every possible combination of materials is a machines learning task - that doesn't require Artificial Intelligence. FYI
I never liked the term AI. I prefer machine or computer intelligence. Once something is intelligent, it isn't artificial regardless of biological or mechanical.
it is not good if they use cobolt in batteri we want childwork to end and I realy hope that we get batteris that every contry can make and use materials that exist in every contry
AI is Large Language Models. It trawls the web and basically uses statistical methods to decide. So the more people talk about this new thing called Sodium Batteries that will disrupt Lithium, the more AI will up the importance and report it as future. Basically LLMs are reading clickbait, often generated with AI (aka LLM). About as reliable as the web, and TH-cam combined. And we believe everything there don't we? We need more than one battery option and Sodium will be in the mix. For niche applications.
I'm sorry what? When he is talking about ai in development it's completely different it's usually neural networks to rapidly test performance of different chemistry using known physical properties. Nothing to do with llms
Also llms do not trawl the web, they are Trained on web content to produce answers to any questions they are asked. They can access the web (in some instances) but that's only to copy information from and show you the viewer
"web content" has been acquired. If not by trawling then cherry picked - aka censorship - aka hidden bias. Who is the expert on what content was found/rejected? Speak up..................
Sodium batteries have the potential to become a viable alternative to lithium batteries, but whether they will overtake them depends on various factors. Here's a balanced view: *Advantages of Sodium Batteries:* 1. Abundance: Sodium is abundant and inexpensive, reducing material costs. 2. Similar chemistry: Sodium-ion batteries share similarities with lithium-ion batteries, making manufacturing adjustments easier. 3. Lower environmental impact: Sodium extraction has a lower environmental footprint compared to lithium. 4. Potential for solid-state batteries: Sodium solid-state batteries are being developed, promising enhanced safety and energy density. *Challenges and Limitations:* 1. Energy density: Sodium batteries currently have lower energy density (~120-150 Wh/kg) compared to lithium-ion batteries (~250-300 Wh/kg). 2. Cycle life: Sodium batteries' cycle life is shorter, requiring more frequent replacements. 3. Electrode stability: Sodium electrodes are less stable, affecting performance and lifespan. 4. Scalability: Mass production and economies of scale are still developing. *Research and Development:* Significant investments are being made to improve sodium battery technology. Breakthroughs in: 1. Electrode materials 2. Electrolytes 3. Battery architecture are addressing the challenges. *Overtaking Lithium Batteries:* While sodium batteries may become a strong competitor, overtaking lithium batteries in the near future is uncertain. Lithium-ion technology continues to advance, and economies of scale have driven down costs. *Timeline:* - Short-term (2025-2030): Sodium batteries may gain traction in niche markets (e.g., renewable energy systems, grid-scale storage). - Mid-term (2030-2040): Improvements in energy density and cycle life could make sodium batteries more competitive. - Long-term (2040+): Sodium batteries could potentially become a dominant force if significant breakthroughs are achieved. In summary, sodium batteries have potential, but it's uncertain whether they will overtake lithium batteries. The development pace, innovation, and market demand will determine their future.
Sam, rambling a bit my friend. I could not make sense of your long sentences with inappropriate punctuation and choice of word emphasis. It feels like you are reading words that you don't understand yourself. As a friend, I advise some revision of your process.
Kilometer is a non-native English word so it is no surprise that English speakers have a different pronunciation of it. Ask a native Japanese speaker to say the word baseball and get ready for a surprise. Or ask a native Thai speaker to say the word apple and wonder why they substitute an "n" sound in place of the "l" sound. Cultures borrow non-native words and make them their own.
If I pronounced it speedo-meter I’d be laughed out of rooms. We’ve all collectively agreed to emphasize the “o” syllable and not the surrounding syllables in these words. We had a vote. It was unanimous.
We need to run 🏃🏼 undersea super high voltage power cables from Australia 🇦🇺 to America 🇺🇸 to Spain 🇪🇸 etc. the sun 🌞 is always shining and push solar installations stop 🛑 pushing batteries 🪫 we only need a small number of batteries 🔋 to stabilize the grid and Australia 🇦🇺 can send power when it day time. You need 110% solar capacity and you just turn off solar panels when you have to much sun 🌞 light problem solved eventually you connect Japan 🇯🇵 Canada 🇨🇦 India 🇮🇳 etc…..
The best solar company in Australia just installed my new solar system.
Check them out here: www.resinc.com.au/electricviking
Batteries designed for cars are not optimal for grid storage.
A grid storage battery does not need to have to have high energy density, but must cost much less than present designs.
3 things:
-Round trip energy efficiency
-Cost (capital + maintainance)
-Lifespan
present designs are clearly adequate as Tesla can't keep up with orders. But better cost effectiveness is definitely needed to reach 4 minimum days of storage needed.
@@mike160543 It is the numbers that show the real possibility in warm latitudes. Australia for example.
Battery Vehicles battery is for the long drive, but most vehicles are PARKED 23 hours every day. Say 100kwh battery.
Home batteries are 10kwh size.
10,000 miles per year, 10,000 hours per year or less. Nobody drives that slow,
Vehicles drive 1 hr per day. 7kwh.
Battery management technologies are extending the battery life, and recycling businesses are not getting enough vehicle batteries. Degradation levels are much lower than designed expected.
Rapid charging every 10 days as normal ICE vehicles do now for petrol.
So 100kwh x 20 million is 2,000gWh storage daily.
Fossil fueled 25gW x 24hr is 600gWh maximum generation.
Nuclear promoters want to supply base load only say 7 gw x 24hr is 170gWh.
The rest renewables.
The numbers tell you they are bs.
So, just battery vehicles overnight V2G has the capacity.
Nuclear talks about UTILIZATION of their investments 24/7, but customers with BVs OVERSIZED battery will use their dirt cheap electricity by making the best UTILIZATION of their own investment.
Batteries should be cheaper in the future of replacement batteries.
Basically, the battery storage is 5 times bigger than nationally needed on avg.
Now 20 million buildings with rooftop PV 7kw x 5hr x 20 million is 700gWh daily.
And over 5hr is much too big for the grid that is designed to handle only 25gW per hour. So BVs oversized battery is FREE to store excess daily.
Every time the sunshines grid demand will be dead. Cashflow is dead.
Grid cashflow max is 600gWh x 50cents kWh is $300million daily, $110BILLON for the $1,000Billion grid infrastructure.
Central generation is dirt cheap electricity at 5cents kWh and it is dead cashflow also.
4million rooftop PV plus 10% more each year.
Millions of EV or BVs are in production now.
Horse meat was cheap when the Ford model T production line started.
It ran for 20years. Sold every model T.
@@tsamuel6224Sodium-ion batteries are about equivalent to lithium right now, but lithium is likely to rise in price again, while sodium will get even cheaper as bigger factories come online. I wonder if we'll see $1 per amp hour for yer bog standard 12v 100ah camper battery?
@@tsamuel6224Let's make it two weeks minimum.
Great to have you back, Viking! 😁
Energy density does not matter for grid storage. Half the density? Build the boxes twice as high. What is important is the cost, the longevity and the ability to meet demand instantly. Energy density only matters in transport applications.
Na S solutions sound great. Is that installation in the La Trobe valley? It makes sense to locate batteries on the sites of coal fired generators, because the transmission lines are there already.
Been saying Sodium-Ion is going to overtake lithium for a few years now. It's just so much cheaper to source and that much safer. China is leading currently, but we need other nations to catch up to ensure a stable supply.
Are you kidding? Wars are more profitable!
I love you praying for your family I have watched 50 videos of yours at least
The Battery Arms Race is underway.
Eh? Oh, cool. I thought I was running alone.
-China looking over its shoulder with military grade binoculars
@@SigFigNewtonFlow batteries, with the chemicals stored safely apart? Military has considerations of robustness and damage effects as high priorities.
As it has been for 20+ years and anything tat is invented in a lab as a less than 1% chance of being able to be produced in large scale or at a comparable cost.
@@plinble protectionist policies such as the huge tax on Chinese EVs are essentially an admission that the US can’t sell comparable vehicles for comparable prices
2:07
This depends on sodium ion chemstry.
Prussian blue anode (PBA) last longer than LFP. But have relatively low energy density (120-150 Wh/kg). Uses abundant materials such as Sodium, Carbon, Iron and nitrogen. (Lasts 5000 cycles as of 2023)
Layered Oxide have relatively high energy density (150+ Wh). But has lower cycle life than LFP. It has a cycle life of 3000.
Sodium PBA would be the one used for grid storage.
I saw this article too. It's an important bit of research, but the 400 cycle life time is too low. They need a cycle life time 4 or 5 times greater than that to make it competitive.
If you can buy an easily replaceable like for like module, built to a common standard for not too much USD, people may live with it. People generally don't expect tyres to last as long as the vehicle.
Sodium PBA will be the way forward for home and grid energy storage I think, not sure whether LFP will be fully overtaken by other sodium designs. Every year they try to develop a new sodium battery that can match the base energy density of LFP, LFP improves in energy density and cost.
Love the long version
Hi Sam. XPeng is pronounced Showe - Pung, according to my Chinese mate.
I'm actually quite supportive of sodium tech
We need to store power from renewable for the grid ans match them up when demand is high and there is not enough lithium for that
Per Grok, JAC motors is delivering soium battery EVs. I do agree most announced sodium EVs haven't made it to market.
CATL's batteries are the anticipated enabler. That said, I expect 20% to 40% of the battery pack to be lithium for acceleration (low peak current from sodium).
ASX Altech batteries and the Fraunhofer institute have built and testing there first battery for grid storage..
The key to battery chemistries moving forward will be separation and merging of technologies. Where low cost, massive battery installations (probably using sodium) will replace existing coal and gas powered peaker plants for community and industry electricity supply. And I also see sodium batteries used in hybrid battery packs in automobiles where they might use high density, expensive solid state batteries together with 2nd generation sodium batteries to provide quick power for local driving needs, and extended power for occasional longer trips. But still matching or exceeding the price, capabilities and overall weight/size of NCM battery packs today.
The national electrical grid is a $TRILLIONS infrastructure investment.
10decades to build.
National wealth invested.
It should be protected.
Battery Vehicles oversized battery topped up daily and parked 23hrs every day at every building and home with rooftop PV can protect the grid.
Up to 20million buildings and 20million vehicles can combine.
The 20million customers can become self generating.
And suppliers of dirt cheap electricity to the grid.
New heavy industrial customers can now become 100% electric and fossil free.
So yes, better battery technologies can save the national grid and the environment from CO2 emissions.
Happy days 😊😊😊
Happy dream maybe, but the laws of physics - at least as they have been officially disclosed - will not allow sufficient battery storage. It’s just not possible to make enough batteries to store the amount of electricity required plus Solar energy is never cheap. To say otherwise makes you sound like they did in the 1950s - atomic power was going to make electricity too cheap to meter!!
@sullivanrachael good comment.
It is the numbers that show the real possibility.
Battery Vehicles battery is for the long drive, but most vehicles are PARKED 23 hours every day. Say 100kwh battery.
Home batteries are 10kwh size.
10,000 miles per year, 10,000 hours per year or less. Nobody drives that slow,
Vehicles drive 1 hr per day. 7kwh.
Battery management technologies are extending the battery life, and recycling businesses are not getting enough vehicle batteries. Degradation levels are much lower than designed expected.
Rapid charging every 10 days as normal ICE vehicles do now for petrol.
So 100kwh x 20 million is 2,000gWh storage daily.
Fossil fueled 25gW x 24hr is 600gWh maximum generation.
Nuclear promoters want to supply base load only say 7 gw x 24hr is 170gWh.
The rest renewables.
The numbers tell you they are bs.
So, just battery vehicles overnight V2G has the capacity.
Nuclear talks about UTILIZATION of their investments 24/7, but customers with BVs OVERSIZED battery will use their dirt cheap electricity by making the best UTILIZATION of their own investment.
Batteries should be cheaper in the future of replacement batteries.
Basically, the battery storage is 5 times bigger than nationally needed on avg.
Now 20 million buildings with rooftop PV 7kw x 5hr x 20 million is 700gWh daily.
And over 5hr is much too big for the grid that is designed to handle only 25gW per hour. So BVs oversized battery is FREE to store excess daily.
Every time the sunshines grid demand will be dead. Cashflow is dead.
Grid cashflow max is 600gWh x 50cents kWh is $300million daily, $110BILLON for the $1,000Billion grid infrastructure.
Central generation is dirt cheap electricity at 5cents kWh and it is dead cashflow also.
4million rooftop PV plus 10% more each year.
Millions of EV or BVs are in production now.
Horse meat was cheap when the Ford model T production line started.
It ran for 20years. Sold every model T.
@@sullivanrachael sodium batteries and other technologies are evolving rapidly so it could be very real.
Nuclear electricity industries in every country should include the cost of exploding military defence budgets.
Central electricity generation MUST HAVE AN extremely expensive grid connection to millions and millions and millions of customers.
It is the massive costs of the grid and not the dirt cheap generation of dirt cheap electricity that is a massive limitation on widespread Central generation, nuclear generation.
Nuclear promoters say exactly that.
Located the new in the grid centre because new grid makes dirt cheap electricity expensive electricity.
So customers rooftop PV and BVs oversized battery is perfect.
Taking your numbers for granted, yes, homes with solar panels could help. But many vehicles aren’t sat on the home driveway during solar output hours. They are at work with their owners. True, that working at home disrupts the traditional workplace models. However, EVs aren’t proving popular in the U.K.; reaching 10% adoption rates. Those that can use them have them. As for the horse analogy - very good. The Ford Model T was a disruptive technology as it used mass production to put cost-effective cars in the hands of working people. Faster than horses too. And not as maintenance intense. De-coking a cylinder head doesn’t need doing as often as mucking out a stable!!
@@sullivanrachael l like your thinking.
My thoughts are that every carpark space has a $60 wall outlet and the BV's selfparking selfplug-in, front bumper plug-in.
Trickle currents all day long and all night long.
Vehicles drive building to building.
Rapid chargers on the main roads and at corner stores if needed.
On the home front.
No grid electricity, savings.
No gas heating and cooking and hotwater, savings.
Rondo heat battery.
No petroleum, savings.
Oversized rooftop PV can also supply the grid with dirt cheap electricity for the new industrial heavy electricity users.
The new cashflow for the grid owners and no new grid construction.
If CO2 emissions and warming latitudes and clean electricity then understanding that 80% of all energy used is fossil fueled, then grid electricity expansion is impossible from a grid central supply.
The existing grid has to be UNLOADED from all building loads and work backwards, be the collector and transmitter to new customers.
Yes I am in Australia, but 80% of the world's population live in warm latitudes.
All latitudes are warming.
The grid must have cashflow and nuclear electricity or even distant renewables electricity will fail when they sunshines 🌞 in our future world.
We must think about how small grid capacity is and how expensive grid construction is.
If we are to make real decisions.
Lithium will likely be replaced by sodium. You don't need AI to predict that. Ubiqutous super charging will make range far less important, so battery density will also be less important. Saftey and battery operating performance will increase in importance.
In Scotland is BESS energy storage locations.
I just want reasonable priced home energy storage 1k for 5kwh is too high. Cant wait to get some sodium batteries.Instead of trying to guess when Sodium becomes dominant why not just ask RethinkX and Tony?
As I understand it, liquid metal & molten salt batteries are inherently lower density because the interface between liquids is smooth, so they depend on long lifespan and low cost materials to be cost effective. The long lifespan comes from liquids having no metal fatigue in the battery itself with metal fatigue only in the power connectors. If you have lifespans of a few hundred thousand cycles the LCOE would be low even if the batteries are heavy but low cost materials.
The real breakthrough will be a battery, methanol reformed fuelcell hybrid.
The question that decides everything for both Renewable Grids and Electrifying Transport is what price per KWH of storage can we mass produce batteries at ? Now a bit of work with breaking down a battery to commodities gives this for a Powerwall.
' Total Estimated Cost of Raw Commodities ie Lithium/ Copper /Steel / etc etc etc
Adding these together, the total estimated cost of the raw commodities for a Tesla Powerwall is approximately AUD $830.40. This estimate does not include manufacturing, R&D, logistics, and other operational costs, which significantly increase the final price. '
This shows that we have a long long way to go in cutting battery costs via mass manufacturing as the commodities is close to 5% of the price we are paying for the final product.
Somehow 10 years seems like a wild hedge on the bet. The pace of technology advance in this area may mean 18-36 months is more likely.
Sodium and iron air batteries better option than lithium for grid and home storage due to lower costs. Weight not as important in these uses. Lithium likely still king for transport though.
The question for me, is whether anything can compete with Cu\ graphite \ LiFePO4 \ Al batteries. As these can have a cycle life of 6000-10,000 cycles while avoiding the expensive Ni and Co which is great for grid storage. Unfortunately, my understanding is NaFePO4 doesn't work so well, the best performing cathodes are of the NaFe0.5Mn0.5O2 variety which don't cycle as well. So although Al \ hard carbon \ NaFe0.5Mn0.5O2 \ Al batteries completely eliminate any expensive metals such as Li and Cu, the downside on the grid is lower longevity which impacts the levelised cost of energy
@1:09 I hope the prognosis is sunnier.
Hi Sam. Another interesting video, thanks. What is the painting in the background ?
G'Day Sam. Are you confusing sodium (a very explosive metal), with sodium chloride (common table salt) ?
Just curious...
Still waiting for the price of sodium batteries to drop
👍👍
After sodium-ion we get aluminium batteries with higher energy/power density.
The nwo suppress aluminum battery. They forbid research as it is too cheap n good
Japanese MAGIC battery ha
I would like to now where to get the specs on the tesla model c @ $7000us. @ the moment there is nothing available. the same goes for the PI phone. When will Tesla introduce the sodium battery? When will the Bidirectional cable be introduced with Tesla?
Tesla is the best car company ever! No gas stations, no oil changes, no smog checks, no catalytic converter, no maintenance, 89% customer retention and quicker than a $650,000 Lamborghini!
Nah Hyundai is the best!Game over for Tesla!
Too bad their CEO is Elon Musk
@@FrankGallagherr Its Just a stinky little carcompany that sells around 1.75 Million Cars this year!Less the last year!BYD already outsells Tesla!Tesla is a sinking ship!
@@MultiMenvafan Tesla would not be the success it is today without Elon Musk.
@@MultiMenvafanLong live Elon.
Fe/02 is promising
Lithium is really holding the electric boom back. Scarcity and safety are major issues.
All I want in a home battery is a low price point and a very very long life.
What happens to all the Chlorine separated from salt (NaCl) to make sodium batteries? Chlorine is toxic. Is that going to be a huge environmental hazard? Can it be chemically combined to render it non toxic?
So many type of batteries. I suspect only one will be the winner.
Several will be winners, but in different sectors. EV, grid storage, home storage etc.
I disagree on one winner. As noted in video
Sodium will be far cheaper.
Lithium is lighter, delivers far more amps (higher peak horsepower), higher energy density.
Sodium is great for lower cost EVs, but even they need some Lithium cells for high acceleration (sodium handles cruise and moderate acceleration).
High performance EVs will remain Lithium.
Ground storage will go sodium.
Low cost EV will have cells that are mostly sodium, but 20% to 40% lithium.
Semis will remain Lithium
The market will rationally fragment.
@@External2737 All our technologies we use today are lithium-ion. I guess we will have to wait and see.
@@External2737Sodium like three and a half times heavier. You think the added mass to EVs won’t decrease range too much to be worth the cost?
@@SigFigNewton Think a cheap replacement for the Nissan leaf, but with 2x and later 3x the range. The JAC sodium EV has 252km (157 mile) range vs. Leaf 117km (73 miles).
JAC and BYD are going to sell at prices, in USD, of $12k to $15k. Of course there will be a huge market. Heck, getting EVs cheaper than any ICE will reignite the low end car market.
There will be demand for a 350km+ (200 mile+) cheap EV too. Sodium is an enabler, while higher end cars will have lithium.
This was true when Lithium was 5x the price compared to now. Alas, no longer.
The use of cobalt is going to be a problem.
Where can I buy sodium power storage 20kWh for my house ?
In 2035?
Let me have a 45kw soduim battery please for home storage and to charge up an ev.. 😊
At McDonald's!
You can buy 20kWh LFP power storage for like 3 grand.
@@huckleberryfinn6578 Where ?
Sodium batteries made sense when lithium was US$80k per tonne, at $10K per tonne they make no sense, heavier, shallow charge/discharge cycle, much lower energy density and shorter life cycle, all that any barely any difference in cost.
Lithium will go up again, it's not a common material. Sodium will probably go down in price
There are various battery chemistries shown on this chanel, but I've never seen anything about the Battery Management Systems, (BMS) especially the cooling, which for Tesla is critical to get the performance and longevity. Why is that? Tesla has flattened tubes that weave through and around every other row of cells. How are the other MFG's competing on their cooling systems?
Sodium is the way for next 30 yrs. Alternatives is aluminum battery but nwo doesn't want aluminum becoz it is cheap.
Sodium is way cheaper than aluminum, it's basically salt.
You are describing machine learning here. Sampling every material option and every possible combination of materials is a machines learning task - that doesn't require Artificial Intelligence.
FYI
I never liked the term AI. I prefer machine or computer intelligence.
Once something is intelligent, it isn't artificial regardless of biological or mechanical.
it is not good if they use cobolt in batteri we want childwork to end and I realy hope that we get batteris that every contry can make and use materials that exist in every contry
AI is Large Language Models. It trawls the web and basically uses statistical methods to decide. So the more people talk about this new thing called Sodium Batteries that will disrupt Lithium, the more AI will up the importance and report it as future. Basically LLMs are reading clickbait, often generated with AI (aka LLM). About as reliable as the web, and TH-cam combined. And we believe everything there don't we? We need more than one battery option and Sodium will be in the mix. For niche applications.
I'm sorry what? When he is talking about ai in development it's completely different it's usually neural networks to rapidly test performance of different chemistry using known physical properties. Nothing to do with llms
Also llms do not trawl the web, they are Trained on web content to produce answers to any questions they are asked. They can access the web (in some instances) but that's only to copy information from and show you the viewer
"web content" has been acquired. If not by trawling then cherry picked - aka censorship - aka hidden bias. Who is the expert on what content was found/rejected? Speak up..................
Sodium batteries are used for energy storage because they're cheap er. They are also heavy er
Berry berry true er
What happened to aluminium graphene batteries? A few weeks ago they were going to save the world.
Why aren't they using magnesium? Two free electrons, instead of one. It's next door to sodium in the period table.
Maybe cost of magnesium when cheaper aluminum (3 valence electrons) is available.
In the end the AI is changing everything.
1.5 megawatt storage batter? Did you mean 1.5 gigawatt?
great Scott !
Storage butter! 😂
What was this, it was akin to a dyslexic reading Shakespeare.
Sodium batteries have the potential to become a viable alternative to lithium batteries, but whether they will overtake them depends on various factors. Here's a balanced view:
*Advantages of Sodium Batteries:*
1. Abundance: Sodium is abundant and inexpensive, reducing material costs.
2. Similar chemistry: Sodium-ion batteries share similarities with lithium-ion batteries, making manufacturing adjustments easier.
3. Lower environmental impact: Sodium extraction has a lower environmental footprint compared to lithium.
4. Potential for solid-state batteries: Sodium solid-state batteries are being developed, promising enhanced safety and energy density.
*Challenges and Limitations:*
1. Energy density: Sodium batteries currently have lower energy density (~120-150 Wh/kg) compared to lithium-ion batteries (~250-300 Wh/kg).
2. Cycle life: Sodium batteries' cycle life is shorter, requiring more frequent replacements.
3. Electrode stability: Sodium electrodes are less stable, affecting performance and lifespan.
4. Scalability: Mass production and economies of scale are still developing.
*Research and Development:*
Significant investments are being made to improve sodium battery technology. Breakthroughs in:
1. Electrode materials
2. Electrolytes
3. Battery architecture
are addressing the challenges.
*Overtaking Lithium Batteries:*
While sodium batteries may become a strong competitor, overtaking lithium batteries in the near future is uncertain. Lithium-ion technology continues to advance, and economies of scale have driven down costs.
*Timeline:*
- Short-term (2025-2030): Sodium batteries may gain traction in niche markets (e.g., renewable energy systems, grid-scale storage).
- Mid-term (2030-2040): Improvements in energy density and cycle life could make sodium batteries more competitive.
- Long-term (2040+): Sodium batteries could potentially become a dominant force if significant breakthroughs are achieved.
In summary, sodium batteries have potential, but it's uncertain whether they will overtake lithium batteries. The development pace, innovation, and market demand will determine their future.
Well it still hasn’t stopped them catching fire in the States
Sam, rambling a bit my friend. I could not make sense of your long sentences with inappropriate punctuation and choice of word emphasis. It feels like you are reading words that you don't understand yourself. As a friend, I advise some revision of your process.
Who cares Its just a grift for him!
Maybe he needs more AI!!! 😂
Sprout a few more brain cells and you'll be able to parse his sentences with no problem. Or maybe take some ADHD meds.
We've heard BS before. 'Projected' improvements are ten a penny. Show me a real product.
English speakers. Please. It’s kilo-meter not kelom-eter.
Kilometer is a non-native English word so it is no surprise that English speakers have a different pronunciation of it. Ask a native Japanese speaker to say the word baseball and get ready for a surprise. Or ask a native Thai speaker to say the word apple and wonder why they substitute an "n" sound in place of the "l" sound. Cultures borrow non-native words and make them their own.
No, it’s always going to be kelom-eter.
Just ask thermom-eters.
If I pronounced it speedo-meter I’d be laughed out of rooms.
We’ve all collectively agreed to emphasize the “o” syllable and not the surrounding syllables in these words. We had a vote. It was unanimous.
@@skipondowntheroad5833 both kilo and meter is VERY native english....
It's pe-DANT, not PEE-dant.
We need to run 🏃🏼 undersea super high voltage power cables from Australia 🇦🇺 to America 🇺🇸 to Spain 🇪🇸 etc. the sun 🌞 is always shining and push solar installations stop 🛑 pushing batteries 🪫 we only need a small number of batteries 🔋 to stabilize the grid and Australia 🇦🇺 can send power when it day time. You need 110% solar capacity and you just turn off solar panels when you have to much sun 🌞 light problem solved eventually you connect Japan 🇯🇵 Canada 🇨🇦 India 🇮🇳 etc…..
That's not economically sane. The cost and the energy losses would be prohibitive. Never mind the deep ocean trenches in the way.
@@Hamish_Awas going to say this 😅😅
First fix education system thx
@@Hamish_A If you transfer high voltage DC without converting to AC you can reduce losses
@@Hamish_A we just need to invent superconductors, no energy losses
Another reason not to buy an EV now but wait. It's like VHS and Betamax.
And thats why Toyota is still waiting,things changing to fast to go all in one one thing!
@@BrunoHeggli-zp3nl No it's not. Toyota is 'waiting' (they're not) because the Chairman simply hates electric vehicles, and has for decades.