What a ridiculous battle which shows the inherent issues with high tier, one lane maps, one spawn point and also cheap spawn vehicles with insane armaments
Ive got a content idea if your interested. Get people to send in their gameplay and kind of review it and say what to do different thats the better option depending on the situation. This could help with people struggling to play well. Anyway just an idea🤷♂️
what do you think of the idea of A) spawn 'zones' instead of points where you could choose where to be within limits, and B) penalizing rewards for kills inside a spawn zone
As you've illustrated, the problem isn't neccesarily with the vehicles and weaponry we can use - it's the absolutely horrendous map / spawn design. Gaijin figures its fine to have people play with modern vehicles on maps/layouts that were built with only max rank 4/5 in mind.
Yes, but not only the map design. He has also stated that people can spawn in cas with minimal effort. Having only a cap and a kill assist will get you already in a fully loaded rotary or fixed wing aircraft.
@@domenique4641 most aircraft cost over double the sp of an MBT with basic loadouts. Full loadouts cost over 1,000 sp. The problem is that they've made it too easy to get sp. Helis shouldn't spawn in with Spike missiles or anything else that's guided at the start of the match. That should be reserved purely for small dumby rockets. Removing these tiny maps from end-tier would fix a lot of issues beyond CAS.
I disagree the map might not be the best design but the total inability of anyone to effectively shoot down planes is what absolutely ruins matches like this.
CAS players are the type of people that get invited to other people's house and instead of acting respectfully they trash the place and treat the host like a servant. Instead of being glad they're even allowed in ground battles, they get offended when you suggest that ground mains shouldn't be treated as second class citizens in *ground* battles.
Yesterday i was getting constantly 4-6 kills as SPAA in 10.7 and then i decided to pop up the AA mission (most air kills) and spawned first as SPAA in the next 3 games, got total of 4 kills and mission failed. Gues to what i died in the next match when i started playing as a tank again...
The SP cost for aircraft needs a rework entirely! I’ve always thought spawning a CAS plane should be very expensive as they can be incredibly powerful so making it something like 1000+ makes sense
@a_catfish5180 most aircraft are over 1,000 sp with full loadouts. Spikes at the start of the match doesn't make any sense though. Last I checked, only dumby rockets are allowed at the start. So Gaijin is intentionally giving the Tiger an advantage.
There should be a C-RAM that will attempt to intercept incoming rockets/missiles/bombs within proximity to spawns. As an SPAA player I shouldn't have to waste my very low supply of missiles to intercept enemy CAS ordnance. At a bare minimum SPAA should be able to replenish missiles in spawn
@@chronozeta Except this isn't real life. It's a video game and more specifically, a gamemode called "ground battles". Call me crazy but that implies that the GROUND vehicles should be the focus, not the air vehicles. Also, that's not how things are in real life. That how things are if you're the US airforce. But as the war in Ukraine shows, strike aircraft flying in uncontested skies and essentially shooting fish in a barrel is not at all a given.
when you que for GROUND rb, intending to focus on tanks, and more than half your deaths are from things that fly... I wanna bash my monitor in. I like that its combined arms, but we need to raise the Spawn Points for flying things such that they are treated more like a killstreak reward. as in, 3-4 kills to get one vs 1-2 kills
Yeah I got a critical hit on an m60 and multiple hits to my own tank and was able to spawn a vampire with 2 bombs (Thats no kills, no points capped because I was being rammed by a leopard and also no skill involved)
@@raketny_hvostyeah because they start firing when the planes like 5km away and then immediately get strafed and die because they gave their position away
And it doesn't help if you spawn spaa because airplanes can just launch missiles 10km away at the very limit of your maximum range and you can just watch them slaughter your team you included.
@@Still_Water-w6qThat’s because you can’t fly and that’s why you’re saying that. Personally sim is rather fun, it actually requires skill to kill some tanks instead of basically point and click for me now.
TEC how awesome you show this. Especially with the new replay features it looks amazing and also it is interesting from the tactical point of view. I wish there were more such videos 😎👍
It's ridiculous to me when people say "just spawn SPAA to counter choppers," even if you pretend that most of the SPAAs in the game can reliably counter them. Even if you do have the very highest SPAA for your nation that actually has a chance of countering a Blackshark that's hovering several miles away, he knows exactly where you are going to be, which is why they focus on the spawn area, and the best that you can hope for is that you see him at the same time that he sees you, in which case you may get a SAM off before dying. He can always duck down into the treeline and be safe, and you can hope that there's a building close enough for you to hide behind before his missile finds you. Beyond that, you expect me to give up the ability to play with the tanks I came here to play because someone capped a point, landed a poorly-placed hit on an enemy, died, and then came back in a god machine that can kill you by looking at you from 10km away? It's even worse in Simulator battles, because now you're throwing away 1 of your 3 spawns just to get rid of one or two players, and they can bring their fully loaded chopper at the very beginning of the match. I stopped playing top tier Sim because about 1 in 5 battles would be determined in 5 minutes or less by who brought the most powerful chopper at the start of the match. CAS needs to be nerfed AND tripled or quadrupled in cost to spawn, on top of a limit to how many vehicles can be in the air at a time, and SPAA (without AP belts) should be free and have unlimited spawn protection.
All I wish is that game could tell that enemy CAS/aircrafts are in the air and the count of them, so there will be less situations when you spawn a tank to be rekt from the CAS and/or spawn Anti-Air to an empty air.
It wouldnt. A ground only game mode would be boring and it would split the playerbase. War Thunder mixed battles is the most popular game mode and its the game mode that makes war thunder what it is, a realistic game.
I would say the biggest issue aside from SP costs is standoff weaponry. Several vehicles at top tier can fire weaponry from ranges that greatly exceed the reasonable range of SPAA weaponry. The only counter is the Pantsir, but well only one nation gets an SPAA like that. Another issue is how helicopters can be played. In order to reliably kill someone sitting at treetop level or behind a mountain is to have a missile fast enough and with enough range to get to them before they lower themselves out of view. IR systems are basically useless against helicopters due to the reduced IR signature, not to mention IRCCM, flare dumps, MAW, and exhaust reduction.
That is honestly how helicopters work in reality and so seems fine in the game. They are sitting ducks without it due to how slow they are. Plus, most play like idiots and hover at a thousand feet then wonder why they die. What I would like to see is the ability to handoff the laser guidance to another helo, like Apache to a Kiowa, or to a Bradley with a laser. Maybe make it work only in squads but it would be great to have and make squading much more fun.
One strategy I came up with countering mass cas is smoking immediately upon spawning and relying on radar. It gives you some time and prevents them from instant locking you.
To be entirely honest, I usually bring the ItO out off the start to counter this stuff but I usually waste all of my missiles playing Patriot Missile Defense by just shooting down missiles that were shot at me off spawn so I just die when they get closer. I applaud the ItO player trying to do stuff though but yeah. AA is kinda in a shitty time rn because most air spawns can just instantly kill you.
Just another reason we need to get rid of the tiny map cancer in high tier battles. It is much more difficult to find enemy AA and targets playing as CAS on a massive map
Good idea in theory, in reality you get a ton of one death leavers because nobody wants to drive 5 minutes to the battle. Bigger maps ARE desirable, its just that they are not conducive to the game modes we have now. If the spawn points moved, if there were more of them, if there was more than 3 cap zones in the center of the map, but the way the game is set up right now large maps are just auto quit for a lot of people because they slow the grind down a lot.
@@illegalaryan823 They could add start of match spawns that are closer to the center, next spawn is just a step back to not get spawn killed if the enemy wins early, then a third spawn much further back in case you need to spawn further back to avoid a deeper push but you still retained the closer spawn. Then 2 or 3 other spawn points that only AA can spawn in that are deliberately spread out to allow the AA players to auto spread via spawn points before even moving.
CAS is the actual problem here as GRB is the only interesting mode to use Helicopters and planes with ground ordinance. The problem is that the maps are way to small so it's a lot easier for CAS to find targets while being able to hide from SPAA. If the maps were bigger and had an actual frontline that extended over the tank battlefield with AA systems and whatever in different places it might stop the CAS BS. Planes should never be able to fly that close without fear of being shot down. And everyone who says.... Just spawn in SPAA..... It's not working like that and playing SPAA is not what most people want to do... It's a necessity and normally not fun..... Or easier...give us a tank only mode to get rid of games like that
some cas elements are where they should be on spawn points. A fully loaded f16-c with air to air and air to ground costs 1200sp. That is fair. If it cost any more than that you might as well not spawn it and just go for the nuke
Couple of things could help: 1. Remove the close helicopter spawn. 2. Make planes spawn on the ground. 3. Spawn protection timers for ground vehicles is based on when the ordinance is fired, not when it hits. Won’t effect ground vehicles much to at all but will hurt the launch when it’s protected CAS. 4. Cover spawns in permanent smoke. Not sure about this one but an idea
As a ground player there's very little reason to stay in battles after CAS starts to spawn, because all you can do is either die in your spawn or if you are still alive sit behind a building until CAS loops around and shoots you from the other side. SPAA can't do anything to CAS that fires missiles outside their max range and return to airfield to rearm.
This is going to sound pretty weird, but its not the CAS. Its the lack of SPAA given to NATO nations and China. Only Russia gets a 20km+ counter SPAA. ALL other nations only have 12km max range, with Japan, Israël and Italy only having IR SPAA units or in the case of Italy, only having a gun SPAA with HE-VT.
@@jbeverley67 and if that was true, why give the PANTSIR out of all things to russia??, its still not to late to replace it with the TOR, The fact that they got the pantsir instead of the tor from the begining just shows that russian bias is a thing and its soooo blatant
Russia's SPAA are pretty damn strong, and while Nato doesn't have many good options, thats just a problem thats amplified by the fact that CAS is absolutely everywhere. like an assist or two is enough to spawn a fully loaded plane with bombs and all. honestly Russia's SPAA is absolutely nuts considering they can keep up with such a messy state of the game. i honestly cant imagine how much they will stomp if Gaijin addresses the CAS spam
Doesn't matter what AA you have, you cannot react within 2 seconds when something spawns and fires, the missiles will be fired before your missile is in the air. Look at what happened to the Pantsirs
NGL it’s a two way street. CAS spam tends to evolve because of people getting map control with vehicles that can exploit key positions, which causes people to spam AA or fighters, which causes more people to spawn more planes to either get air superiority or just punch through. Usually it’s a race between US and RU players as they have some of the best CAS/Air Superiority jets, but RU has some of the best AA at these levels. At this point I think they need to remove faction restrictions to stop the snowballing RU tends to get on this thing, but also change spawn positions and costs for everything from vehicle repairs to SP. There’s no one-fix solution to this problem because the issue is one of player behavior more than anything.
As someone who did this for real, there’s no such thing as far in warfare you can either fight symmetrically or asymmetrically, but there’s gonna be one country that has a major advantage and one country that doesn’t and one category or another. It’s up to us as players to fill that gap with good communication and teamwork.
Fire and forget is simply a legal cheat (aimbot) and TV guidance with a thermal is wall hack , and then there are clowns that will say that shit is realistic, like bro i dont give a shit this is a game it should be fair and balanced
@@nikolaperic6307 what no. IR guidance is almost identical with TV guidance. the only difference is if a tank uses hot smoke. which players dont use to counter again cas in ground rb because theres too many people to focus on things like that
CAS is an issue because there's none of the realistic counters to CAS. Air defense doesn't exist outside of player used mobile AA. There should be a lot more options, including NPC AA, but gaijoob is incompetent.
There won't be a way around having an a lot larger ground combat zone so AA location isn't always known to aircraft which brings a lot longer matchtimes with it. While at it, Gaijin might as well introduce proper complex game modes like a regular video game would have them.
This is exactly why I stopped playing top-tier tank battles altogether. The lack of effective counters is frustrating enough, but the current point system allows players to quickly deploy CAS (Close Air Support) and dominate the battlefield, often turning what should be ground-focused battles into something closer to an Air RB match. It’s demoralizing and sucks the enjoyment out of matches. I find more satisfaction sticking to 9.0 or even 8.7 battles with my vehicles, as top-tier simply isn’t worth the hassle. (I also stay at lower br's to have fun). The situation is exacerbated by poor map design. Many of these maps, originally created for World War II and Cold War-era battles, have been reused for modern top-tier engagements without necessary updates. Spawn areas often lack adequate cover, leaving ground players vulnerable to relentless CAS and long-range fire. This results in a stale and frustrating experience for many. Potential solutions? Introduce more effective anti-air units to help ground forces counter CAS without a disproportionate investment. Adjust the point system to limit the frequency and early deployment of airstrikes, giving ground battles a fairer playing field. Additionally, rework existing maps and create new ones with proper spawn protection and more diverse tactical options. Ensuring balanced matchmaking and making these adjustments would create a more rewarding and skill-based experience for all players
Yeah like literally all the maps are for WW2 era i mean there’s this forest map im thinking of that is literally impossible to hide from cas and range finder makes it the worst map in the game
I think dynamic spawns that change every time when a new game starts and making them invisible to the enemy on the minimap would be an awesome idea. Would mean much less spawncamping and AA sniping. Sadly gaijin never changes any core game mechanics.
Thats why I believe rushing to strike eagle and su34 was a bad idea. Not only because they will bring more CAS, but because there should be other priorities to begin with. This map is a great example why map layouts etc. need changing first.
For a game that prides itself on "realism" there are few more UNREAL aspects of War Thunder than CAS. First, in real life, CAS is the last choice for calling for support. The Army ALWAYS uses internal assets (Artillery) before calling CAS. And when CAS is called, it is a very difficult aspect of modern warfare to accomplish, much less master. Dedicated CAS missions include the aircraft and a ground spotter who directs the AC to the vicinity of the enemy, and he then attacks what enemy he finds. But it is that initial coordination, with emphasis on preventing hitting your own troops, that is so difficult. NEVER will a CAS asset go blindly into a "Close" environment because of the danger of fragging your own. "Hit Boxes" like they did in Iraq I was a special environment where there were no friendlies to worry about - unlike War Thunder. Along with raising the spawn points for bringing in CAS, I would also suggest that CAS must takeoff from a base a minimum of 10 nm from the battle meaning they need bigger maps.
And let's not forget the obvious; IRL SPAA is the last line of defense. ADATS is there as a last resort in case something gets past the Patriots and the Hawks. And let's just say ADATS wasn't adopted for a reason.
Especially at top tier, you need dedicated AA from the beginning. If you do not have that, you may very well get overwhelmed by CAS and, after the next respawn cycle, find yourself in a team with 6 AAs and 2 MBTs. If I play top tier, I only play AA or scouts; I never fly. I have noticed a lot less CAS lately. At some point in the day, pilots seem to get demoralized by AA and don't bother spawning anything in, even if it is cheap.
Well, as a skilless player. I think being hammered by CAS is a really punishing experience. We dont know much on playing the map already and really kills by luck. Yet by the time get used to the map and situational awareness. Bomb you are dead and dont have spawn points to fight back or simply get spawn camped
This is exactly why I only play top tier ground with nations that I have the air tree fully grinded. Trying to play just pure tank battles is infuriating, since most of the games I play eventually turn into this “CAS apocalypse”, it just isn’t fun if I have to spend the whole game trying to hide from multiple targeting cameras flying overhead.
I wonder if scaling cas cost with time would be a good idea. So for the first 5 minutes it is exceptionally expensive but then it drops every minute by a small amount.
It is easy to fix this, make jets with AA weapons only very cheap. Even better is to get 3-4 regular ground mode battles, they are separate battles but all lined up in one large map for one big continuous air SB with 3rd person (or not, I play ASB either way). When one ground battle finishes another one starts in its place. This way you have: -ground units that shoot back -it is hard to tell where SPAA is -people will be more likely to spawn in air superiority fighters to get dominance rather than CAS
More sp for fire and forget ordinance. Bigger maps at top tier More spawn areas on the maps I would even say killing enemy’s in spawn should give no reward. This game was a crazy example, I used to feel every game was like this until I started playing AA only lineups and realised most games only have a handful of CAS elements and I’m sat doing nothing for my team all game.
CAS, spawncamping and huge clusterfucks wouldn't be big problems, if maps weren't so terrible. But nah, who needs any variety of gameplay? Clearly, every match devolving into exact same scenarios, with the same camping spots and only one or two routes which give you any chance to not get rekt instantly is better choice.
Bigger maps and line spawns but gotta keep those ADHD kids entertained with CSGO gameplay. The issue also relies on the way war thunder gamemodes are overall played. The matches are too fast with too little tickets bleeding that they've had to put air spawns on all aircraft instead of requiring airfield spawns which would at least negate the instant appeareance of CAS at the start of the round. The point modes should honestly be removed altogether and replaced with territorial control or just battle only as that gamemode at least lasts more than 5 mins that is if you don't get spawncamped.
Nh what they need to do is to either fix/ make maps with more buildings because open air is just 2 op and or add a cas limit like a 2 plane limit at one time like Strwsbtf2 because having 6 jets is just Zzz
I have found, one of the best AAs for top tier is the stormer HVM. A combination of IRST, the number of ready to fire missiles, thermals and very fast missiles makes it decent, despite it's short range compared to su25s. I have found the starstreaks are so handy as they tend to reach the lauch aircraft faster than the ASW can get to the target on the ground. The only downside is the short range, as the CAS can fire off weaponry at twice the range of your missile, so you have to be on the ball watching the enemy air spawns. Keep up the entertaining content!
1. Aircraft, both fixed wing and helicopters must spawn in far away, like 30 or 40 km so that they actually have time to set up, this will benefit spaa as well as they will see cas coming. 2. Much larger maps with much more spawn points, and make it so its random spawns so that one side isnt favored 3. Make it so that spaa can spawn in places that are like 5 km away from the battlefield so that you cant just throw missiles ar their spawn for easy spaa kills. 4. This sound crazy, but make it so that can can spawn in at the spart of the match, like sim and also on the ground so that they must consider their approach (whether they climb or not, or go left or right), but only make it so that 1 cas fixed wing can spawn in, and 1 helicopter. This will encourage spaa to be spawned in at the start so that there isnt a point where the cas has free rein on the ground vehicles right away.
Fixed wing would get buffed if they spawn 40 km away. That is beyond the radar range of all Sams so they could just freely climb above radar limit and then they can rain down bombs and missiles from above
I've said it before spawns should be set up like forward operating bases with hesco barriers, dragons teeth, como netting and maybe even some AI shorad, that and increase map size
the only reason why cas isn't making more ground players quit is because most of them are just plain bad, with tanks and with planes and helis... how ironic this whole set up is, gaijin potrays and knows how powerful these cas are and gives it to the worst players with no cost at all
it is the only tool for them that gaijin can use to keep them in the game. are you trash with planes, ships and tanks as well? you don't want to learn to play with them? don't quit please! here, look, use planes against ofther classes that can't fight back! see? good boy! now buy some preemium CAS as well!
I do think larger maps will be beneficial as it will push the standard engagement range a bit further back giving players more time to respond to certain threats, definitely getting rid of the single lane maps will be important to solve this issue as more lanes will give CAS players more lanes to chose from other than just the one. Increasing the spawn cost of these CAS vehicles is a must due to their destructive capabilities (I can only imagine what the F-15E is going to be like). However I do also believe its long over due that gajin introduces PROPER Air defense systems to the game. (including but not limited to) The Patriot Air Defense System for America, The S-300/S-400 for the Russians, The SAM/PT for France/Italy, The MEADS for Germany, The RBS 23 BAMSE for Sweden, The SPYDER-MR for Israel, The Sky Sabre for Britain, the Type 03 Medium-Range Surface-to-Air Missile (Chū-SAM) for Japan, and lastly the HQ-22 Medium- to Long-Range Air Defense System for China. The reason I say this, is that we have yet to see aircraft with SEAD weaponry/capabilities and with those SEAD capabilities will render most of the SHORAD systems currently in use in the tech trees will be outclassed, especially with the ranges being pushed back will make countering air threats extremely difficult, hell they clearly want to go down the rabit hole of stealth and low observable airframes which will definitely outclass the SHORADs. The idea with introducing these Air Defense Systems is to give players the definitive hard counter to CAS even with SEAD/Stealth capabilities, now for gameplay sake having a limited amount of these systems active at any given point in time is going to be a must, I think 2 or 3 per team is good number. I am open for discussion regarding this topic.
I personally think there should be a time limit in game for ground attack capable load outs be available to be brought in and an increase in cost again for them. Air to air capability available from the get go if you get the points to spawn it to push players towards protecting the skies for the ground. Maps need changing to stop this from happening too.
There IS no "CASpocalypse" at top tier in general. You want to know what the real issue is? Countries like Britain with absolute GARBAGE jet options for top tier compared to other countries and the fact that Britain like USA has to use the completely useless garbage ADATS system as it's SPAA. Britain needs a better SPAA with actual capable radar search/lock and at least 12km range like the VT1 platforms. Meanwhile Russia has a "best of both" scenario and most other countries have a capable VT1 system of some sort with good CAS. Britain also doesn't have the ground force to make up for the mediocre air it has. The Desert Warrior is complete trash and the Challengers are mid. How to some up Britain in one unenthusiastic word, "MEH". ALSO, don't forget that the amount of top tier premiums has just as much to do with this issue as anything else. What can't premium noobs buy? They CANNOT buy SPAA. Most of the good aircraft and helis are NOT premiums so they can't buy those either. Top tier premiums allowing low level noobs to buy their way in without a proper lineup has eroded the match quality of top tier into nothing. So max level players such as myself and many others who have top tier ground and air with 10 vehicle slots slaughter these teams without mercy because Gaijin has allowed this situation themselves. I do admit however most of the map design in this game is absolutely horrendous, I honestly wish I could ban at least 5 maps instead of 1.
One of the major problems is the lack of good AA options. It's so much easier to grind out airplanes then it is to grind out AAs. There should be some options of spawning in stationary AAs that are top tier level. Good points on map design.
If SP doesn't go up, move the high tier air strips 80km to 100km away and no more air spawn. Add theatre air defense systems that can start covering the battle space before stand off munitions can be in range.
@@TallyPatka-dz2cz at high tier 100km gives CAS and CAP lots of room to play and flex. Gives a lot of planes more room to come from other angles. Add some tactical and strategic objectives for them to engage that aren't players and bam.
I'm no WT vet but i feel if they increased the reward for shooting down a cas player that would lead to more players putting an aa vehicle in their line up. as a somewhat new player its rather difficult to shoot down cas, especially with my 170ping as im playing from south africa so giving us more lions and sp for shooting one down would be nice.
1st, a lot of these problems are map problems. 2nd, helicopters with spikes or pars are inherently OP. 3rd, it is very difficult to perform CAS with a competent AA player up or anyone in a pantsir. 4th, the cost of AAs doesnt change throughout the BRs meaning that you have better and better AA weapons while the cost of equivalent SEAD or CAS weapons on aircraft and or helis (without fire and forget missiles or vikhrs) is increasingly high. This basically puts up a massive blocker for players to play aircraft in a game which has COMBINED ARMS WARFARE AS A MAJOR SELLING POINT.
I have top teir air and I never bring them to groundRB except a helicopter sometimes but still rare for me to use it. I think air in "GROUND BATTLES" is overall heresy and shouldn't be a thing
What would help, but the community wouldnt like it, is much larger maps with cas spawning MUCH further back, longer matches and more incentatives for sticking around, together with ditching the system based around capping arbitrary points.
yesterday i killed 1 foxed and then died and had enough to spawn a saab 105G with 4 500 pund bombs and 2 30 cannons. keep in mind the 105 G has a ballistics computer for both the guns and the bombs and rockets
@@chronozetaI mean middle ground could be made by disabling cas in some matches through weather, realistically speaking Flight OPs were often canceled or unable to occur due to poor weather poor visibility etc. Gaijin could do a 50% chance for that to happen since it would be realistic and be a middle ground to people who want a tank only type fight and it’s not completely unhinged like complete removal
I really can’t believe that you guys brought a tank to an air battle. In the interest of fairness, Ground players should be able to spawn anti air vehicles in air battles at random spawn points around the map.
i think they should move spawn points for top tier jets at least to at least 20-25 km, so it would take longer for them to get to the action, and remove the close spawn to helicopters And one thing i've noticed is that with light tanks, its very easy to spawn with fully loaded jets, u just need to spot enemies and get the kill assist, with each assist reducing like 100 spawn points to the cost, if u get like 2 assists like this, and kill 1 player or cap 1 base, u can spawn with anything u want. one thing they could do is invest in better spaa for everyone, so it would be riskier to spawn on the air, nowdays the only threat we have is the pantsir, all of the other spaa have a 10km range where if u fly around that gap it cant hit u They could even make like the spawn point for enemy tanks invisible, and even make it so it can change match to match a little so you would never knew exactly where its
but then they will say "but hey! this is your fault! you didnt spawned as a SPAA" oh yeah what a unfunny thing and unrewarding thing to do compared to what they can do with little effort, you play as a spaa and you get easily overwhelmed by the amount of CAS
They say it because now most players will focus on CAS fixes and conveniently forget gaijin promised to fix grind and compression a couple years ago... then did nothing but tiny token fixes.
Worst part is that SPAA isn't a one-and-done deal against CAS. Because you can dodge any missile in the game, IR missiles can get flared, gun SPAA can get juked easily or just stay 6000m above the battlefield and drop Mavericks with impunity. Sure, spawn SPAA, but that's not a guarantee against CAS.
In lower bracket ww2/early cold war, if I do this strat with a light tank, I cap, I assist, then jump into a casp plane, If I get killed before doing anything, its game over, I dont have enough point to jump back unless I get a lucky assit and barely scrape the remaining points to get a AA... In a real world scenario, that much ''hardware'' in such a small zone would mean the most hazardous no fly zone ever.... Both side wouldnt want to risk that much material with any kind of AA cover...
Due to the technology advance as you go up in tiers the issue is topping in the high tiers. But CAS is an issue in it's current form and should be changed. Just spawn an SPAA - Well if the enemy team has 2-3 planes up,you are the only SPAA or the other one is hunting tanks like a Falcon for eg. you might get one and die to the others as you must sell your position to engage. Good alternative would be to have no tracer belts for SPAA. There are 3 main type of CAS player imo: 1. Who plays somewhat in a tank and after the first death immediately spawns plane or heli to use the advantage over tanks and kill them without to much risk and score as much as possible,usually till the end of the game with rearming flights. 2. Revenge bomber a**h0l3s,who come back straight with the biggest bomb available because you killed them(and no,you cannot just move to another spot all the time as you might pinned down or repairing). How fair it is that you kill them,they have 1 assist and a 1 capture yet can drop a 1000-2000lbs bomb on you? Best type of these are the ones who hit the ground next to you without intention to pull up. 3. The ones who spawn in a plane because there is no tank left in the lineup or just feel like there is a need to clear a rat tank or such. The first 2 type I hate to guts as those players just go "cheating" mode and use the easy way to score or revenge kill as they are this coward tw4ts. I am fine with CAS as long as it is fair. Main points are: - Increase the points that require CAS and increase even more the bomb/rocket etc loadout - Give SPAA "stealth" belts - Limit the amount of planes in a game(So you don't have like 5-6 planes in the sky just from your or the enemy team alone) - Change map design so that the spawn is protected for a while(not locking target or just have immunity in the zone)
They need to lower the SP for CAP aircraft. If all you’re bringing is missiles and a gun and the aircraft is a fighter and not an attacker with a ground focused gun, the SP should be significantly low. That will keep a lot of CAS in check.
a change i would find pretty nice to the spawn system is if the map is setup in 4 areas and within the areas via clicking on the map you can decide your exact position you want to spawn that way camping the spawn via cas and via other tanks is harder since the area you can spawn is larger... that way its also that people can learn wich areas can be spawn to spawn camped and wich not and fix it by that themselves since the snail is too lazy to switch it up
Honestly they need to just remove the spawn points and make it like battlefield. People like me who enjoy launching light poles at people would be in the air first spawn making sure things like A-10s and SU-25s can’t get any footing. Then AA could be used to properly defend against helis.
Love how everything boils down to the maps. Maps should be bigger and Sam sites in every spawn. No matter if it’s a tank spawn or Helios/planes. And strategically placed so it can’t get shot out by tanks. Like covers in spawn. Would fix spawn killing aswell cuz tanks would be able to take cover and not die
While you mentioned that enemy CAS players didnt do much, you forget to mention that one KA-52 player who made 10 kills while having 1 death(it was me) :D Also you spawned Harrier GR.7 at the end.
I've had matches like this and had a full airload in my F-16 to use as AA. I am the 0.0001% ... They still got to do whatever they wanted as my missiles had to lock.
Also a big problem is that spaa are way too underpowered compared to cas. They get outranged, worse munitions without fire and forget. Cas gets warnings to radar and have countermeasures and spaa gets neither. Also to be able to try to counter cas you need to spawn a spaa that cant defend itself from ground. The whole situation is very broken. Yes reallive cas has these munitions but there are also longrange aa bubbles from powerful systems like the patriot batteries or s300, s400 batteries. They are absent in the game so obviously cas is insanely op. (Finally ground caps at 11.7 but cas can bring much higher br vehicle to dunk on ground targets)
@TheEuropeanCanadian I totally agree with you but don't forget, when you spawn a light vehicle with the airstrike modification unlock, you scout players and these players get killed , you can reduce the spawn points of your plane or your helicopter. For Example if a plane with full loadout need 750 SP to spawn it, you can reduce it to even 350 SP if your team mates killed the scouted targets. Because on top tier you see a lot of players playing with light vehicles and the matches end really fast usually, you usually see a guy with 2 scout assists and he is able to spawn a fully load plane. This is why CAS is getting a big problem for some time now and one way or another Gaijin will need to take a stance to that.
The difference is that it takes a bit of skill to use CAS at low tier. You have to be able to aim, setup, and predict the target. Enemy fighters are a lot more effective at stopping you in low tier matches as well. It's not even remotely comparable but sure. No one likes being bombed in a tank lol.
I’ve been saying for years we need a ground only mode, cas can have ground rb but let’s bring back historical matches without air. Would be cool to see a domination mode or a breakthrough like in Battlefield
The irony is that these tiny maps only work for matches below 8.0 at most. Yet no matter how much the community complains nothing is done. I end up playing maps like this all the time, despite banning them from my queue. I'm convinced Gaijin uses mechanics like this to inhibit progression. Skill certainly isn't a factor when you're getting spawn killed.
Cant wait to see the one comment that says "stop complaining and just spawn SPAA" like 90% of the ppl who play ground rb play it to fight planes from the ground...
I don't really have this issue, I can play all day and barely get killed by anything in the air. More often than not when these jets/heli's spawn they get killed by spaa before they get a kill.
Plus something like the pantsir is supposed to be able to lock pans fire missiles at what, 4 targets at a time? But you can’t do that in game because you have to manually aim at the target to guide the missile.
It can but using lead mode which is only.good against something like a drone, what I do is fire at the drone in LEAD mode, switch lock to a plane and then switch to LOS
@ huh. Didn’t know you could switch targets that the previous missile would keep tracking. I’m guessing it won’t work very well though unless you are manually guiding in the missile against something like a jet.
@shaunkelly9053 yeah the guidance in real life is really good but in war thunder it turns the missile into a aim 9b meaning it won't pull much, but when intercepting mavericks I just use automatic that way if a plane shows up I can just switch to the plane and destroy it, also it makes dealing with hordes of mavericks easier
They need to; 1) Severely increase point requirement for ordnance loads AND spawns in general for aircraft. 2) Force aircraft to spawn on the airfield, NOT in the air. 3) Increase distance of airfields to the ground field for modern era so no take off, dump, land BS, and 4) Put in limits of 1 fighter, 1 attacker or bomber, and 1 heli. End of.
@@o-hogameplay185 And your point is what? That CAS in ground needs to be taken to the extent of playing with simulator controls, or limited to simulator mode? because if so, thats even more retarded, or is this just going to go back to the same broken record of "Just give us ground only mode".
@@o-hogameplay185 Okay fine, fcuk you too TH-cam, i WONT use the R word this time.... What is your point? that CAS gameplay needs to use simulator controls to "insert" skill? or that it should be limited to just Simulator mode? Or will this be another broken record of "Just give us a ground only mode"? Which offers no solution to the problem. The problem is not that CAS "takes no skill", the problem is CAS takes no skill to GET INTO in ground. It takes less skills to hold W, press your scope button, and then click and get a kill, then tada, youve got enough points to jump in CAS. It then snowballs into multiple people in aircraft shifting it entirely from GRB to ARB. The solution is to make it harder to get into CAS, make it take longer for CAS to provide affect on the mode, and prevent it from being a scaling problem.
If I were that ka-50 I would have flown off to the right so there’s a bit of protection while still being able to see most of the area. Cas though is a problem especially if you don’t have anything to counter it.
Tbh I don’t mind cas as an enjoyer and defender of the team when I run anti air, I’ve been slapping anywhere between 3-5 outta that sky frequently it’s not like there’s no way to stop cas, not only that but if you run, tank, cas, anti air you can average 5-8 maybe even 10 kills a game which will leave you immensely satisfied with your performance
bigger maps with airfield takeoff like ARB and spread out. air spawn points cap in line up and raise the points requirement, make the map like operations ARB add ai fixed Ai gives people more things to looks at and shoot at , interact with while the planes counter each other and the helis and the spaa and move around while the MBTs have the land to traverse and put the optics to good use.
19:30 A-10C with forbidden armament (MAVERICKS next to tagerting pod) Gaijin tells me everytime i load int that they removes Either manverick or tagerting pod on rigth wing
What a ridiculous battle which shows the inherent issues with high tier, one lane maps, one spawn point and also cheap spawn vehicles with insane armaments
Ive got a content idea if your interested.
Get people to send in their gameplay and kind of review it and say what to do different thats the better option depending on the situation. This could help with people struggling to play well.
Anyway just an idea🤷♂️
@@General_kenobi12 Used to do it, it was pretty fun. Probably will add it to the Sunday Videos
They just need bigger maps and cant reward rat gameplay in cas
@@TheEuropeanCanadiancool
what do you think of the idea of A) spawn 'zones' instead of points where you could choose where to be within limits, and B) penalizing rewards for kills inside a spawn zone
As you've illustrated, the problem isn't neccesarily with the vehicles and weaponry we can use - it's the absolutely horrendous map / spawn design. Gaijin figures its fine to have people play with modern vehicles on maps/layouts that were built with only max rank 4/5 in mind.
Yes, but not only the map design. He has also stated that people can spawn in cas with minimal effort. Having only a cap and a kill assist will get you already in a fully loaded rotary or fixed wing aircraft.
@@domenique4641 most aircraft cost over double the sp of an MBT with basic loadouts. Full loadouts cost over 1,000 sp. The problem is that they've made it too easy to get sp. Helis shouldn't spawn in with Spike missiles or anything else that's guided at the start of the match. That should be reserved purely for small dumby rockets. Removing these tiny maps from end-tier would fix a lot of issues beyond CAS.
The maps need to be a lot larger and spread out in top tier ....
I disagree the map might not be the best design but the total inability of anyone to effectively shoot down planes is what absolutely ruins matches like this.
Hes saying gave everybody a pantsir
Look at the CAS players trying their damnedest to paint themselves as the victims
CAS players are the type of people that get invited to other people's house and instead of acting respectfully they trash the place and treat the host like a servant. Instead of being glad they're even allowed in ground battles, they get offended when you suggest that ground mains shouldn't be treated as second class citizens in *ground* battles.
The real skill issues lol CAS players
The funniest thing is whenever I decide to play SPAA as first spawn no CAS spawns in for the entire match so I’m twiddling my thumbs for 15 minutes
and cas player tell you skill problem :D
Swear!!! Every single fckn time!!!! 😂 I spawn a wheelie boi.... 3 helies agro on me 😂 simply amazing 👏
When you need to make a coffee
Yesterday i was getting constantly 4-6 kills as SPAA in 10.7 and then i decided to pop up the AA mission (most air kills) and spawned first as SPAA in the next 3 games, got total of 4 kills and mission failed. Gues to what i died in the next match when i started playing as a tank again...
It’s extremely frustrating that an aircraft with a CAP loadout costs as much SP as one with a fully loaded CAS loadout
Indeed. CAP should be cheaper, and rewards for kills should match or at least be closer to what you would get in air RB.
The SP cost for aircraft needs a rework entirely! I’ve always thought spawning a CAS plane should be very expensive as they can be incredibly powerful so making it something like 1000+ makes sense
thats cap
This is completely wrong, taking 6 aim120 on an f16c is wayyy cheaper than taking 6 mavs 2 gbus and 4 missiles
@a_catfish5180 most aircraft are over 1,000 sp with full loadouts. Spikes at the start of the match doesn't make any sense though. Last I checked, only dumby rockets are allowed at the start. So Gaijin is intentionally giving the Tiger an advantage.
There should be a C-RAM that will attempt to intercept incoming rockets/missiles/bombs within proximity to spawns. As an SPAA player I shouldn't have to waste my very low supply of missiles to intercept enemy CAS ordnance. At a bare minimum SPAA should be able to replenish missiles in spawn
holy shit this would be cool af lol
I love playing Patriot missile system with my small amount of missiles
Or allow reloads at spawn points.
youre getting ammo boxes in next update.. it will help a lot
thats why a lot of ppl are hyped about the new Ammo boxes, you can resupply without going to a cap
Like DOLLARPlays said, as a Groundplayer you are second class player
Yes how things are in real life.
@@chronozeta you lot are unable at critical thinking I've noticed
@@chronozetaI’m not sure if you’ve noticed but war thunder is a video game, not real life.
@@chronozeta Except this isn't real life. It's a video game and more specifically, a gamemode called "ground battles". Call me crazy but that implies that the GROUND vehicles should be the focus, not the air vehicles.
Also, that's not how things are in real life. That how things are if you're the US airforce. But as the war in Ukraine shows, strike aircraft flying in uncontested skies and essentially shooting fish in a barrel is not at all a given.
Its a plane game.
when you que for GROUND rb, intending to focus on tanks, and more than half your deaths are from things that fly... I wanna bash my monitor in.
I like that its combined arms, but we need to raise the Spawn Points for flying things such that they are treated more like a killstreak reward. as in, 3-4 kills to get one vs 1-2 kills
not even 1-2 kills, i got 1 asssist and i could spawn a Ki-57 with a 250kg bomb, its so stupid
Yeah
I got a critical hit on an m60 and multiple hits to my own tank and was able to spawn a vampire with 2 bombs
(Thats no kills, no points capped because I was being rammed by a leopard and also no skill involved)
And also limit how much CAS can be in the air like a max of two at a time per team
doesnt happen.
@@xvphoenixvii5146 you can spawn AA for 50sp.
people keep saying, “just spawn spaa” like im playing ground br to shoot down planes
thing is there are usually about 3-5 clowns sitting on AA on respawn and they barely do anything
@@raketny_hvostyeah because they start firing when the planes like 5km away and then immediately get strafed and die because they gave their position away
just spawn spaa and stop crying
@@raketny_hvost its like that exactly because of the issues highlighted in the video
And it doesn't help if you spawn spaa because airplanes can just launch missiles 10km away at the very limit of your maximum range and you can just watch them slaughter your team you included.
People now use ground to play CAS. Gaijin really needs a new game mode to give CAS more to do.
The only other mode CAS can do CAS stuff is sim but sim is cringe
@@Still_Water-w6qThat’s because you can’t fly and that’s why you’re saying that.
Personally sim is rather fun, it actually requires skill to kill some tanks instead of basically point and click for me now.
@@inkycat7167I like EC, but I do not like the controls that come with SIM.
@@TJ042 That’s fair
@@inkycat7167 Shoulda put in a trigger warning sorry bud
TEC how awesome you show this. Especially with the new replay features it looks amazing and also it is interesting from the tactical point of view. I wish there were more such videos 😎👍
It's ridiculous to me when people say "just spawn SPAA to counter choppers," even if you pretend that most of the SPAAs in the game can reliably counter them. Even if you do have the very highest SPAA for your nation that actually has a chance of countering a Blackshark that's hovering several miles away, he knows exactly where you are going to be, which is why they focus on the spawn area, and the best that you can hope for is that you see him at the same time that he sees you, in which case you may get a SAM off before dying. He can always duck down into the treeline and be safe, and you can hope that there's a building close enough for you to hide behind before his missile finds you. Beyond that, you expect me to give up the ability to play with the tanks I came here to play because someone capped a point, landed a poorly-placed hit on an enemy, died, and then came back in a god machine that can kill you by looking at you from 10km away? It's even worse in Simulator battles, because now you're throwing away 1 of your 3 spawns just to get rid of one or two players, and they can bring their fully loaded chopper at the very beginning of the match. I stopped playing top tier Sim because about 1 in 5 battles would be determined in 5 minutes or less by who brought the most powerful chopper at the start of the match. CAS needs to be nerfed AND tripled or quadrupled in cost to spawn, on top of a limit to how many vehicles can be in the air at a time, and SPAA (without AP belts) should be free and have unlimited spawn protection.
Yeah it’s pretty crazy that things like the flarakrad and ADATs are higher BRs than the anything with Vikhrs
All I wish is that game could tell that enemy CAS/aircrafts are in the air and the count of them, so there will be less situations when you spawn a tank to be rekt from the CAS and/or spawn Anti-Air to an empty air.
Might as well mark every enemy on the map so you don’t get flanked and killed😂 or maybe auto aim for you so it isn’t unfair for people who can’t play
Let's be honest. If there was a mode without CAS. It would be the most popular game mode.
This is the exact reason we will NEVER get one, even with the majority of players wanting it. Gaijin wants you to suffer for that AA and Premium CAS.
Exactly
@@scottchappelle8191except Reddit isn’t the majority. Air players like playing in ground because it is sim with mouse aim.
no it wouldnt be.
It wouldnt. A ground only game mode would be boring and it would split the playerbase. War Thunder mixed battles is the most popular game mode and its the game mode that makes war thunder what it is, a realistic game.
This video needs to go viral, and be on Gaijins door step.
either keep coping or spawn spaa
@@chronozeta you got no critical thinking ability. As expected from a CAS apologist.
@@chronozetasay you got negative KDs without saying it 😂😂😂
Gaijin has been aware of this issue for better part of a decade. They do not agree/care. Simple as that.
Spawn a fighter. Or much better a sam.
Me, a low to mid tier enjoyer, once again being reminded why i don't touch high tier even with a pole:
It's the same thing in those tiers.
6.7 CAS spam is far worse, the only place I find myself not getting bombed by CAS twice every match is 9.0
I would say the biggest issue aside from SP costs is standoff weaponry. Several vehicles at top tier can fire weaponry from ranges that greatly exceed the reasonable range of SPAA weaponry. The only counter is the Pantsir, but well only one nation gets an SPAA like that. Another issue is how helicopters can be played. In order to reliably kill someone sitting at treetop level or behind a mountain is to have a missile fast enough and with enough range to get to them before they lower themselves out of view. IR systems are basically useless against helicopters due to the reduced IR signature, not to mention IRCCM, flare dumps, MAW, and exhaust reduction.
Most of said helicopters have to maintain the laser on the tank. The fire and forget ones though boy can they be annoying on like Bresslau.
That is honestly how helicopters work in reality and so seems fine in the game. They are sitting ducks without it due to how slow they are.
Plus, most play like idiots and hover at a thousand feet then wonder why they die.
What I would like to see is the ability to handoff the laser guidance to another helo, like Apache to a Kiowa, or to a Bradley with a laser. Maybe make it work only in squads but it would be great to have and make squading much more fun.
@@DevinEMILEat least 50% of the helis at top tier now have FnF.
One strategy I came up with countering mass cas is smoking immediately upon spawning and relying on radar. It gives you some time and prevents them from instant locking you.
To be entirely honest, I usually bring the ItO out off the start to counter this stuff but I usually waste all of my missiles playing Patriot Missile Defense by just shooting down missiles that were shot at me off spawn so I just die when they get closer. I applaud the ItO player trying to do stuff though but yeah. AA is kinda in a shitty time rn because most air spawns can just instantly kill you.
Just another reason we need to get rid of the tiny map cancer in high tier battles. It is much more difficult to find enemy AA and targets playing as CAS on a massive map
Good idea in theory, in reality you get a ton of one death leavers because nobody wants to drive 5 minutes to the battle. Bigger maps ARE desirable, its just that they are not conducive to the game modes we have now. If the spawn points moved, if there were more of them, if there was more than 3 cap zones in the center of the map, but the way the game is set up right now large maps are just auto quit for a lot of people because they slow the grind down a lot.
@@illegalaryan823 They could add start of match spawns that are closer to the center, next spawn is just a step back to not get spawn killed if the enemy wins early, then a third spawn much further back in case you need to spawn further back to avoid a deeper push but you still retained the closer spawn.
Then 2 or 3 other spawn points that only AA can spawn in that are deliberately spread out to allow the AA players to auto spread via spawn points before even moving.
name one big map which doesnt suck
CAS is the actual problem here as GRB is the only interesting mode to use Helicopters and planes with ground ordinance. The problem is that the maps are way to small so it's a lot easier for CAS to find targets while being able to hide from SPAA. If the maps were bigger and had an actual frontline that extended over the tank battlefield with AA systems and whatever in different places it might stop the CAS BS. Planes should never be able to fly that close without fear of being shot down. And everyone who says.... Just spawn in SPAA..... It's not working like that and playing SPAA is not what most people want to do... It's a necessity and normally not fun..... Or easier...give us a tank only mode to get rid of games like that
some cas elements are where they should be on spawn points. A fully loaded f16-c with air to air and air to ground costs 1200sp. That is fair. If it cost any more than that you might as well not spawn it and just go for the nuke
Couple of things could help:
1. Remove the close helicopter spawn.
2. Make planes spawn on the ground.
3. Spawn protection timers for ground vehicles is based on when the ordinance is fired, not when it hits. Won’t effect ground vehicles much to at all but will hurt the launch when it’s protected CAS.
4. Cover spawns in permanent smoke. Not sure about this one but an idea
As a ground player there's very little reason to stay in battles after CAS starts to spawn, because all you can do is either die in your spawn or if you are still alive sit behind a building until CAS loops around and shoots you from the other side. SPAA can't do anything to CAS that fires missiles outside their max range and return to airfield to rearm.
And once again a ground only mode doesn't seem like a bad idea
What would you do with the spaa because a lot of them have no capability to kill tanks.
@crazyadam9281 the majority of players don't use spaa anyway
Literally every update cas just gets stornger F15E and su 34 while russia has the only competent AA and even that can struggle based on the situation
@@crazyadam9281 No one plays anti-air SPAA because they want to. It's like asking "but if we got rid of all 🍇ists, what would happen to 🍇whistles?"
@@crazyadam9281why would u spawn spaa in a tank only mode 😂😂😂 , unless u are using falcon gepard ZA ...
This is going to sound pretty weird, but its not the CAS. Its the lack of SPAA given to NATO nations and China. Only Russia gets a 20km+ counter SPAA. ALL other nations only have 12km max range, with Japan, Israël and Italy only having IR SPAA units or in the case of Italy, only having a gun SPAA with HE-VT.
People always give the excuse that nato doesn't have an aa like the pantsir but that's an absolute lie.
@@jbeverley67 and if that was true, why give the PANTSIR out of all things to russia??, its still not to late to replace it with the TOR, The fact that they got the pantsir instead of the tor from the begining just shows that russian bias is a thing and its soooo blatant
Russia's SPAA are pretty damn strong, and while Nato doesn't have many good options, thats just a problem thats amplified by the fact that CAS is absolutely everywhere. like an assist or two is enough to spawn a fully loaded plane with bombs and all. honestly Russia's SPAA is absolutely nuts considering they can keep up with such a messy state of the game. i honestly cant imagine how much they will stomp if Gaijin addresses the CAS spam
@@jbeverley67 seem someone failed math in school. 20km is alot more than 12km. actually more than most maps
Doesn't matter what AA you have, you cannot react within 2 seconds when something spawns and fires, the missiles will be fired before your missile is in the air. Look at what happened to the Pantsirs
NGL it’s a two way street. CAS spam tends to evolve because of people getting map control with vehicles that can exploit key positions, which causes people to spam AA or fighters, which causes more people to spawn more planes to either get air superiority or just punch through.
Usually it’s a race between US and RU players as they have some of the best CAS/Air Superiority jets, but RU has some of the best AA at these levels.
At this point I think they need to remove faction restrictions to stop the snowballing RU tends to get on this thing, but also change spawn positions and costs for everything from vehicle repairs to SP.
There’s no one-fix solution to this problem because the issue is one of player behavior more than anything.
As someone who did this for real, there’s no such thing as far in warfare you can either fight symmetrically or asymmetrically, but there’s gonna be one country that has a major advantage and one country that doesn’t and one category or another. It’s up to us as players to fill that gap with good communication and teamwork.
Fire and forget missiles do not belong on Helicopters. They barely belong on jets for that matter.
Actually, they don't belong in war thunder at all
dont worry, they made sure the brimstone is balanced in this very way!! gaijin is so thoughtfull
Fire and forget is simply a legal cheat (aimbot) and TV guidance with a thermal is wall hack , and then there are clowns that will say that shit is realistic, like bro i dont give a shit this is a game it should be fair and balanced
@@nikolaperic6307 what no. IR guidance is almost identical with TV guidance. the only difference is if a tank uses hot smoke. which players dont use to counter again cas in ground rb because theres too many people to focus on things like that
CAS is an issue because there's none of the realistic counters to CAS. Air defense doesn't exist outside of player used mobile AA. There should be a lot more options, including NPC AA, but gaijoob is incompetent.
Maybe we need pvp ground operation maps with enough clutter and AI units and large spawn areas to give time for everyone.
Ai is bad.
There won't be a way around having an a lot larger ground combat zone so AA location isn't always known to aircraft which brings a lot longer matchtimes with it. While at it, Gaijin might as well introduce proper complex game modes like a regular video game would have them.
This is exactly why I stopped playing top-tier tank battles altogether. The lack of effective counters is frustrating enough, but the current point system allows players to quickly deploy CAS (Close Air Support) and dominate the battlefield, often turning what should be ground-focused battles into something closer to an Air RB match. It’s demoralizing and sucks the enjoyment out of matches. I find more satisfaction sticking to 9.0 or even 8.7 battles with my vehicles, as top-tier simply isn’t worth the hassle. (I also stay at lower br's to have fun).
The situation is exacerbated by poor map design. Many of these maps, originally created for World War II and Cold War-era battles, have been reused for modern top-tier engagements without necessary updates. Spawn areas often lack adequate cover, leaving ground players vulnerable to relentless CAS and long-range fire. This results in a stale and frustrating experience for many.
Potential solutions? Introduce more effective anti-air units to help ground forces counter CAS without a disproportionate investment. Adjust the point system to limit the frequency and early deployment of airstrikes, giving ground battles a fairer playing field. Additionally, rework existing maps and create new ones with proper spawn protection and more diverse tactical options. Ensuring balanced matchmaking and making these adjustments would create a more rewarding and skill-based experience for all players
Yeah like literally all the maps are for WW2 era i mean there’s this forest map im thinking of that is literally impossible to hide from cas and range finder makes it the worst map in the game
I think dynamic spawns that change every time when a new game starts and making them invisible to the enemy on the minimap would be an awesome idea. Would mean much less spawncamping and AA sniping. Sadly gaijin never changes any core game mechanics.
Thats why I believe rushing to strike eagle and su34 was a bad idea. Not only because they will bring more CAS, but because there should be other priorities to begin with. This map is a great example why map layouts etc. need changing first.
It’s solely map design. At top tier we need massive maps and more spawn areas. Plain and simple.
For a game that prides itself on "realism" there are few more UNREAL aspects of War Thunder than CAS. First, in real life, CAS is the last choice for calling for support. The Army ALWAYS uses internal assets (Artillery) before calling CAS. And when CAS is called, it is a very difficult aspect of modern warfare to accomplish, much less master. Dedicated CAS missions include the aircraft and a ground spotter who directs the AC to the vicinity of the enemy, and he then attacks what enemy he finds. But it is that initial coordination, with emphasis on preventing hitting your own troops, that is so difficult. NEVER will a CAS asset go blindly into a "Close" environment because of the danger of fragging your own. "Hit Boxes" like they did in Iraq I was a special environment where there were no friendlies to worry about - unlike War Thunder. Along with raising the spawn points for bringing in CAS, I would also suggest that CAS must takeoff from a base a minimum of 10 nm from the battle meaning they need bigger maps.
And let's not forget the obvious; IRL SPAA is the last line of defense. ADATS is there as a last resort in case something gets past the Patriots and the Hawks. And let's just say ADATS wasn't adopted for a reason.
Especially at top tier, you need dedicated AA from the beginning. If you do not have that, you may very well get overwhelmed by CAS and, after the next respawn cycle, find yourself in a team with 6 AAs and 2 MBTs.
If I play top tier, I only play AA or scouts; I never fly. I have noticed a lot less CAS lately. At some point in the day, pilots seem to get demoralized by AA and don't bother spawning anything in, even if it is cheap.
Well, as a skilless player. I think being hammered by CAS is a really punishing experience. We dont know much on playing the map already and really kills by luck. Yet by the time get used to the map and situational awareness. Bomb you are dead and dont have spawn points to fight back or simply get spawn camped
Another reason to add Patriot and S300 ( or S400 ) sites to War Thunder
This is exactly why I only play top tier ground with nations that I have the air tree fully grinded. Trying to play just pure tank battles is infuriating, since most of the games I play eventually turn into this “CAS apocalypse”, it just isn’t fun if I have to spend the whole game trying to hide from multiple targeting cameras flying overhead.
I wonder if scaling cas cost with time would be a good idea. So for the first 5 minutes it is exceptionally expensive but then it drops every minute by a small amount.
The pantsir gives so much protection, it doubles the ADATS' range, has more missiles, better guns, better radar. Just give every country a pantsir
It is easy to fix this, make jets with AA weapons only very cheap.
Even better is to get 3-4 regular ground mode battles, they are separate battles but all lined up in one large map for one big continuous air SB with 3rd person (or not, I play ASB either way). When one ground battle finishes another one starts in its place.
This way you have:
-ground units that shoot back
-it is hard to tell where SPAA is
-people will be more likely to spawn in air superiority fighters to get dominance rather than CAS
More sp for fire and forget ordinance.
Bigger maps at top tier
More spawn areas on the maps
I would even say killing enemy’s in spawn should give no reward.
This game was a crazy example, I used to feel every game was like this until I started playing AA only lineups and realised most games only have a handful of CAS elements and I’m sat doing nothing for my team all game.
That's an interesting idea, penalize rewards for spawncamping
CAS, spawncamping and huge clusterfucks wouldn't be big problems, if maps weren't so terrible. But nah, who needs any variety of gameplay? Clearly, every match devolving into exact same scenarios, with the same camping spots and only one or two routes which give you any chance to not get rekt instantly is better choice.
Catering the flow of games to the Low Attention span players is always a terrible idea.
Absolutely this. It's a terrible time to be a war game enjoyer with studios appealing more and more to those kinds of people
Getting spawn bombed has been my usual top tier experience lately
Bigger maps and line spawns but gotta keep those ADHD kids entertained with CSGO gameplay.
The issue also relies on the way war thunder gamemodes are overall played. The matches are too fast with too little tickets bleeding that they've had to put air spawns on all aircraft instead of requiring airfield spawns which would at least negate the instant appeareance of CAS at the start of the round. The point modes should honestly be removed altogether and replaced with territorial control or just battle only as that gamemode at least lasts more than 5 mins that is if you don't get spawncamped.
Nh what they need to do is to either fix/ make maps with more buildings because open air is just 2 op and or add a cas limit like a 2 plane limit at one time like Strwsbtf2 because having 6 jets is just Zzz
I have found, one of the best AAs for top tier is the stormer HVM. A combination of IRST, the number of ready to fire missiles, thermals and very fast missiles makes it decent, despite it's short range compared to su25s. I have found the starstreaks are so handy as they tend to reach the lauch aircraft faster than the ASW can get to the target on the ground. The only downside is the short range, as the CAS can fire off weaponry at twice the range of your missile, so you have to be on the ball watching the enemy air spawns. Keep up the entertaining content!
1. Aircraft, both fixed wing and helicopters must spawn in far away, like 30 or 40 km so that they actually have time to set up, this will benefit spaa as well as they will see cas coming.
2. Much larger maps with much more spawn points, and make it so its random spawns so that one side isnt favored
3. Make it so that spaa can spawn in places that are like 5 km away from the battlefield so that you cant just throw missiles ar their spawn for easy spaa kills.
4. This sound crazy, but make it so that can can spawn in at the spart of the match, like sim and also on the ground so that they must consider their approach (whether they climb or not, or go left or right), but only make it so that 1 cas fixed wing can spawn in, and 1 helicopter. This will encourage spaa to be spawned in at the start so that there isnt a point where the cas has free rein on the ground vehicles right away.
Fixed wing would get buffed if they spawn 40 km away. That is beyond the radar range of all Sams so they could just freely climb above radar limit and then they can rain down bombs and missiles from above
I've said it before spawns should be set up like forward operating bases with hesco barriers, dragons teeth, como netting and maybe even some AI shorad, that and increase map size
the only reason why cas isn't making more ground players quit is because most of them are just plain bad, with tanks and with planes and helis...
how ironic this whole set up is, gaijin potrays and knows how powerful these cas are and gives it to the worst players with no cost at all
it is the only tool for them that gaijin can use to keep them in the game.
are you trash with planes, ships and tanks as well? you don't want to learn to play with them?
don't quit please! here, look, use planes against ofther classes that can't fight back!
see? good boy! now buy some preemium CAS as well!
I do think larger maps will be beneficial as it will push the standard engagement range a bit further back giving players more time to respond to certain threats, definitely getting rid of the single lane maps will be important to solve this issue as more lanes will give CAS players more lanes to chose from other than just the one. Increasing the spawn cost of these CAS vehicles is a must due to their destructive capabilities (I can only imagine what the F-15E is going to be like). However I do also believe its long over due that gajin introduces PROPER Air defense systems to the game. (including but not limited to) The Patriot Air Defense System for America, The S-300/S-400 for the Russians, The SAM/PT for France/Italy, The MEADS for Germany, The RBS 23 BAMSE for Sweden, The SPYDER-MR for Israel, The Sky Sabre for Britain, the Type 03 Medium-Range Surface-to-Air Missile (Chū-SAM) for Japan, and lastly the HQ-22 Medium- to Long-Range Air Defense System for China. The reason I say this, is that we have yet to see aircraft with SEAD weaponry/capabilities and with those SEAD capabilities will render most of the SHORAD systems currently in use in the tech trees will be outclassed, especially with the ranges being pushed back will make countering air threats extremely difficult, hell they clearly want to go down the rabit hole of stealth and low observable airframes which will definitely outclass the SHORADs. The idea with introducing these Air Defense Systems is to give players the definitive hard counter to CAS even with SEAD/Stealth capabilities, now for gameplay sake having a limited amount of these systems active at any given point in time is going to be a must, I think 2 or 3 per team is good number. I am open for discussion regarding this topic.
I personally think there should be a time limit in game for ground attack capable load outs be available to be brought in and an increase in cost again for them. Air to air capability available from the get go if you get the points to spawn it to push players towards protecting the skies for the ground. Maps need changing to stop this from happening too.
There IS no "CASpocalypse" at top tier in general. You want to know what the real issue is? Countries like Britain with absolute GARBAGE jet options for top tier compared to other countries and the fact that Britain like USA has to use the completely useless garbage ADATS system as it's SPAA. Britain needs a better SPAA with actual capable radar search/lock and at least 12km range like the VT1 platforms. Meanwhile Russia has a "best of both" scenario and most other countries have a capable VT1 system of some sort with good CAS. Britain also doesn't have the ground force to make up for the mediocre air it has. The Desert Warrior is complete trash and the Challengers are mid. How to some up Britain in one unenthusiastic word, "MEH".
ALSO, don't forget that the amount of top tier premiums has just as much to do with this issue as anything else. What can't premium noobs buy? They CANNOT buy SPAA. Most of the good aircraft and helis are NOT premiums so they can't buy those either. Top tier premiums allowing low level noobs to buy their way in without a proper lineup has eroded the match quality of top tier into nothing. So max level players such as myself and many others who have top tier ground and air with 10 vehicle slots slaughter these teams without mercy because Gaijin has allowed this situation themselves. I do admit however most of the map design in this game is absolutely horrendous, I honestly wish I could ban at least 5 maps instead of 1.
they should put a number of CAS limit by team like in arcade :/
One of the major problems is the lack of good AA options.
It's so much easier to grind out airplanes then it is to grind out AAs.
There should be some options of spawning in stationary AAs that are top tier level.
Good points on map design.
If SP doesn't go up, move the high tier air strips 80km to 100km away and no more air spawn. Add theatre air defense systems that can start covering the battle space before stand off munitions can be in range.
100km? That will make it worse bro and make it so CAS will have 0 difference
@@TallyPatka-dz2cz good
@@TallyPatka-dz2cz No one cares, you're not welcome. This is *ground* battles, the focus should be on ground battles.
@@TallyPatka-dz2cz at high tier 100km gives CAS and CAP lots of room to play and flex. Gives a lot of planes more room to come from other angles.
Add some tactical and strategic objectives for them to engage that aren't players and bam.
@NikolaiMihailov1 100km would make America insanely op, the aim 120 is top dog in bvr
I'm no WT vet but i feel if they increased the reward for shooting down a cas player that would lead to more players putting an aa vehicle in their line up. as a somewhat new player its rather difficult to shoot down cas, especially with my 170ping as im playing from south africa so giving us more lions and sp for shooting one down would be nice.
I think one thing that would help a little is if (just like arb) all aircraft above a certain br could only spawn on the airfield. Including helos
1st, a lot of these problems are map problems. 2nd, helicopters with spikes or pars are inherently OP. 3rd, it is very difficult to perform CAS with a competent AA player up or anyone in a pantsir. 4th, the cost of AAs doesnt change throughout the BRs meaning that you have better and better AA weapons while the cost of equivalent SEAD or CAS weapons on aircraft and or helis (without fire and forget missiles or vikhrs) is increasingly high. This basically puts up a massive blocker for players to play aircraft in a game which has COMBINED ARMS WARFARE AS A MAJOR SELLING POINT.
I have top teir air and I never bring them to groundRB except a helicopter sometimes but still rare for me to use it. I think air in "GROUND BATTLES" is overall heresy and shouldn't be a thing
What would help, but the community wouldnt like it, is much larger maps with cas spawning MUCH further back, longer matches and more incentatives for sticking around, together with ditching the system based around capping arbitrary points.
Together with AI troops for the full spectrum (Ground troops,planes,tanks and ADN)
too much work for small little indie developer gaijin please dont ask too much out of them, they can at best add another copy paste jet
@@lovecraftgaming6507 and copy paste tanks, don't forget about that.
They can keep adding these top tier jets into the game they just need to disallow them from participating in ground RB
SPawn into a SPAA to counter KA50/52s.... try it against a heli with a spike....
yesterday i killed 1 foxed and then died and had enough to spawn a saab 105G with 4 500 pund bombs and 2 30 cannons. keep in mind the 105 G has a ballistics computer for both the guns and the bombs and rockets
War Thunder should make an option to turn CAS on or off when selecting ground battles, like they do with night battles
lololol acting like a baby
Either this or reflect damage back to sender for trying to spawn camp
@@chronozetaI mean middle ground could be made by disabling cas in some matches through weather, realistically speaking Flight OPs were often canceled or unable to occur due to poor weather poor visibility etc. Gaijin could do a 50% chance for that to happen since it would be realistic and be a middle ground to people who want a tank only type fight and it’s not completely unhinged like complete removal
I mean it would completely kill cas and AA to the ground they just need to nerf cas in terms of spawn points or something
@9000tommygun they just need to make a ground only modes one for light tanks and one for heavy and maybe a third with all sounds good to me
"It is actually really hard to CAS"
"SPAA are unfair, just look at Pantsirs"
Time to super buff aa at all levels I feel
"Ground battle" yes they battle to survive to the CAS lmfao.
I really can’t believe that you guys brought a tank to an air battle. In the interest of fairness, Ground players should be able to spawn anti air vehicles in air battles at random spawn points around the map.
i think they should move spawn points for top tier jets at least to at least 20-25 km, so it would take longer for them to get to the action, and remove the close spawn to helicopters
And one thing i've noticed is that with light tanks, its very easy to spawn with fully loaded jets, u just need to spot enemies and get the kill assist, with each assist reducing like 100 spawn points to the cost, if u get like 2 assists like this, and kill 1 player or cap 1 base, u can spawn with anything u want.
one thing they could do is invest in better spaa for everyone, so it would be riskier to spawn on the air, nowdays the only threat we have is the pantsir, all of the other spaa have a 10km range where if u fly around that gap it cant hit u
They could even make like the spawn point for enemy tanks invisible, and even make it so it can change match to match a little so you would never knew exactly where its
but then they will say "but hey! this is your fault! you didnt spawned as a SPAA"
oh yeah what a unfunny thing and unrewarding thing to do compared to what they can do with little effort, you play as a spaa and you get easily overwhelmed by the amount of CAS
They say it because now most players will focus on CAS fixes and conveniently forget gaijin promised to fix grind and compression a couple years ago... then did nothing but tiny token fixes.
Worst part is that SPAA isn't a one-and-done deal against CAS. Because you can dodge any missile in the game, IR missiles can get flared, gun SPAA can get juked easily or just stay 6000m above the battlefield and drop Mavericks with impunity. Sure, spawn SPAA, but that's not a guarantee against CAS.
How about a 5 min timer for cas?
lets just get some patriot SAM in and call it a day
In lower bracket ww2/early cold war, if I do this strat with a light tank, I cap, I assist, then jump into a casp plane, If I get killed before doing anything, its game over, I dont have enough point to jump back unless I get a lucky assit and barely scrape the remaining points to get a AA...
In a real world scenario, that much ''hardware'' in such a small zone would mean the most hazardous no fly zone ever.... Both side wouldnt want to risk that much material with any kind of AA cover...
Due to the technology advance as you go up in tiers the issue is topping in the high tiers. But CAS is an issue in it's current form and should be changed.
Just spawn an SPAA - Well if the enemy team has 2-3 planes up,you are the only SPAA or the other one is hunting tanks like a Falcon for eg. you might get one and die to the others as you must sell your position to engage. Good alternative would be to have no tracer belts for SPAA.
There are 3 main type of CAS player imo:
1. Who plays somewhat in a tank and after the first death immediately spawns plane or heli to use the advantage over tanks and kill them without to much risk and score as much as possible,usually till the end of the game with rearming flights.
2. Revenge bomber a**h0l3s,who come back straight with the biggest bomb available because you killed them(and no,you cannot just move to another spot all the time as you might pinned down or repairing). How fair it is that you kill them,they have 1 assist and a 1 capture yet can drop a 1000-2000lbs bomb on you? Best type of these are the ones who hit the ground next to you without intention to pull up.
3. The ones who spawn in a plane because there is no tank left in the lineup or just feel like there is a need to clear a rat tank or such.
The first 2 type I hate to guts as those players just go "cheating" mode and use the easy way to score or revenge kill as they are this coward tw4ts.
I am fine with CAS as long as it is fair.
Main points are:
- Increase the points that require CAS and increase even more the bomb/rocket etc loadout
- Give SPAA "stealth" belts
- Limit the amount of planes in a game(So you don't have like 5-6 planes in the sky just from your or the enemy team alone)
- Change map design so that the spawn is protected for a while(not locking target or just have immunity in the zone)
Ground Battles are just Air Battles with addition of tanks. Let that sink in
Easy quick fix: add more spawns with even some cover. Like 4 different options.
They need to lower the SP for CAP aircraft. If all you’re bringing is missiles and a gun and the aircraft is a fighter and not an attacker with a ground focused gun, the SP should be significantly low. That will keep a lot of CAS in check.
100% Spot on. Ground right now is a mess with combined arms.
a change i would find pretty nice to the spawn system is if the map is setup in 4 areas and within the areas via clicking on the map you can decide your exact position you want to spawn that way camping the spawn via cas and via other tanks is harder since the area you can spawn is larger... that way its also that people can learn wich areas can be spawn to spawn camped and wich not and fix it by that themselves since the snail is too lazy to switch it up
Honestly they need to just remove the spawn points and make it like battlefield. People like me who enjoy launching light poles at people would be in the air first spawn making sure things like A-10s and SU-25s can’t get any footing. Then AA could be used to properly defend against helis.
Love how everything boils down to the maps. Maps should be bigger and Sam sites in every spawn. No matter if it’s a tank spawn or Helios/planes. And strategically placed so it can’t get shot out by tanks. Like covers in spawn. Would fix spawn killing aswell cuz tanks would be able to take cover and not die
While you mentioned that enemy CAS players didnt do much, you forget to mention that one KA-52 player who made 10 kills while having 1 death(it was me) :D Also you spawned Harrier GR.7 at the end.
I've had matches like this and had a full airload in my F-16 to use as AA. I am the 0.0001% ... They still got to do whatever they wanted as my missiles had to lock.
It’s actually gotten even worse in the last few weeks and that’s before this update of CAS doom
Also a big problem is that spaa are way too underpowered compared to cas. They get outranged, worse munitions without fire and forget. Cas gets warnings to radar and have countermeasures and spaa gets neither. Also to be able to try to counter cas you need to spawn a spaa that cant defend itself from ground. The whole situation is very broken. Yes reallive cas has these munitions but there are also longrange aa bubbles from powerful systems like the patriot batteries or s300, s400 batteries. They are absent in the game so obviously cas is insanely op. (Finally ground caps at 11.7 but cas can bring much higher br vehicle to dunk on ground targets)
Spaa can see incoming ordinance on radar and intercept it so they do get a warning it’s just that most of the time they don’t do this
@TheEuropeanCanadian I totally agree with you but don't forget, when you spawn a light vehicle with the airstrike modification unlock, you scout players and these players get killed , you can reduce the spawn points of your plane or your helicopter. For Example if a plane with full loadout need 750 SP to spawn it, you can reduce it to even 350 SP if your team mates killed the scouted targets. Because on top tier you see a lot of players playing with light vehicles and the matches end really fast usually, you usually see a guy with 2 scout assists and he is able to spawn a fully load plane. This is why CAS is getting a big problem for some time now and one way or another Gaijin will need to take a stance to that.
CAS is a problem at every single BR, not just top tier.
The 5.0 area is crazy for cas. I've won so many matches just from my teammates obliterating the enemy team in their p-47's
The difference is that it takes a bit of skill to use CAS at low tier. You have to be able to aim, setup, and predict the target. Enemy fighters are a lot more effective at stopping you in low tier matches as well. It's not even remotely comparable but sure. No one likes being bombed in a tank lol.
@@PyroBlonde7777 you need exactly zero skill with CAS at any BR. or even negative amount
@o-hogameplay185 that's why I see people crash or miss their targets daily at lower BRs? Because it takes negative amounts of skill? Amazing take 👏
@@PyroBlonde7777 yes, because CAS players are too dumb even for that...
I’ve been saying for years we need a ground only mode, cas can have ground rb but let’s bring back historical matches without air. Would be cool to see a domination mode or a breakthrough like in Battlefield
The irony is that these tiny maps only work for matches below 8.0 at most. Yet no matter how much the community complains nothing is done. I end up playing maps like this all the time, despite banning them from my queue. I'm convinced Gaijin uses mechanics like this to inhibit progression. Skill certainly isn't a factor when you're getting spawn killed.
Skill isn't a factor?? B-but those CAS spawnkillers sworn that it was my skill
Cant wait to see the one comment that says "stop complaining and just spawn SPAA" like 90% of the ppl who play ground rb play it to fight planes from the ground...
Skill issue
Can’t wait to play my T80bmv erm i mean my pantsir 😎😎😎😎 because that is fun gameplay just looking at the sky
I don't really have this issue, I can play all day and barely get killed by anything in the air. More often than not when these jets/heli's spawn they get killed by spaa before they get a kill.
Plus something like the pantsir is supposed to be able to lock pans fire missiles at what, 4 targets at a time? But you can’t do that in game because you have to manually aim at the target to guide the missile.
It can but using lead mode which is only.good against something like a drone, what I do is fire at the drone in LEAD mode, switch lock to a plane and then switch to LOS
@ huh. Didn’t know you could switch targets that the previous missile would keep tracking. I’m guessing it won’t work very well though unless you are manually guiding in the missile against something like a jet.
@shaunkelly9053 yeah the guidance in real life is really good but in war thunder it turns the missile into a aim 9b meaning it won't pull much, but when intercepting mavericks I just use automatic that way if a plane shows up I can just switch to the plane and destroy it, also it makes dealing with hordes of mavericks easier
That’s the exact reason why I don’t play Ground RB or Ground Sim anymore as long as we don’t get a CAS free game mode.
They need to;
1) Severely increase point requirement for ordnance loads AND spawns in general for aircraft.
2) Force aircraft to spawn on the airfield, NOT in the air.
3) Increase distance of airfields to the ground field for modern era so no take off, dump, land BS, and
4) Put in limits of 1 fighter, 1 attacker or bomber, and 1 heli. End of.
none of those would solve the biggest issue: CAS takes zero skill.
@@o-hogameplay185 And your point is what? That CAS in ground needs to be taken to the extent of playing with simulator controls, or limited to simulator mode? because if so, thats even more retarded, or is this just going to go back to the same broken record of "Just give us ground only mode".
@@o-hogameplay185 Okay fine, fcuk you too TH-cam, i WONT use the R word this time....
What is your point? that CAS gameplay needs to use simulator controls to "insert" skill? or that it should be limited to just Simulator mode?
Or will this be another broken record of "Just give us a ground only mode"? Which offers no solution to the problem.
The problem is not that CAS "takes no skill", the problem is CAS takes no skill to GET INTO in ground. It takes less skills to hold W, press your scope button, and then click and get a kill, then tada, youve got enough points to jump in CAS. It then snowballs into multiple people in aircraft shifting it entirely from GRB to ARB. The solution is to make it harder to get into CAS, make it take longer for CAS to provide affect on the mode, and prevent it from being a scaling problem.
If I were that ka-50 I would have flown off to the right so there’s a bit of protection while still being able to see most of the area. Cas though is a problem especially if you don’t have anything to counter it.
Tbh I don’t mind cas as an enjoyer and defender of the team when I run anti air, I’ve been slapping anywhere between 3-5 outta that sky frequently it’s not like there’s no way to stop cas, not only that but if you run, tank, cas, anti air you can average 5-8 maybe even 10 kills a game which will leave you immensely satisfied with your performance
bigger maps with airfield takeoff like ARB and spread out. air spawn points cap in line up and raise the points requirement, make the map like operations ARB add ai fixed Ai gives people more things to looks at and shoot at , interact with while the planes counter each other and the helis and the spaa and move around while the MBTs have the land to traverse and put the optics to good use.
19:30 A-10C with forbidden armament (MAVERICKS next to tagerting pod) Gaijin tells me everytime i load int that they removes Either manverick or tagerting pod on rigth wing