I have wired 3 houses and 5 shops and never knew WHY you separate the bond and the neutral. Thanks, I finally understand. You make a fine teacher. As always, I enjoy your content.
+Jacob Edward The way you're asking the question is exactly the reason why the term bonding is better :P because of the connotation of "grounding". The tiny house (the electrical system and the house as a whole) will not be "grounded" at all... but it will be bonded to the source's bonding system, which has an electrical path to the system ground, which is where there is continuity to the earth around that area... as you can probably tell, it's not easy to explain :P but the short version is: if you are connecting to the grid, you should not have any direct connection to the earth around your tiny house (except for possibly in extremely rare situations)
+Jacob Edward Yes, in a car's system, everything metal including the chassis is bonded to the negative side of the battery, making the positive "hot". Voltage coming from the positive side of the system must then be treated with care, and all wires and connections must be insulated, whereas the negative can be open since it's all at the same potential as the car itself.
+Jacob Edward When you bond something to one side of a circuit, you're simply bringing it to the same electrical potential as that side... not actually changing the loop of the circuit. Imagine if you scraped your car up against a mile-long metal fence... you could then theoretically run a cable from the positive of your battery all the way to the end of the fence and complete the circuit because there is a path through it back to the negative of the battery... now replace the fence with the earth...
I know you have people rubbing their temples and reaching for some asprin. lol. In the U.S. we call it a grounding wire and neutral. I think if you stated out right that most tiny houses do not have a grounding (bonding) connection buried in the ground, (it was mentioned in passing) a simple one line diagram might of helped also.
+Duane C Heh, yeah I'm hesitant to give the kind of instruction that might lead people to get themselves into trouble :P since I know how bad it can get. There is a movement to change the vast majority of the use of "ground" to "bond" because in most places that you see that bare copper wire, it's not actually "grounding" anything... it's "electrically bonding" all metal together so that a fault-current can flow back to the neutral bus in the panel at the point where it is actually "grounded" and then continue to flow back to the source along the neutral.... the buried rod/plate is connected to the panel with a "grounding" conductor, and that is the only "grounding" conductor and it is never referred to with the term "bond".... it's how I learned it, since I started my apprenticeship in 2008, and it makes sense and I'm stickin' to it! lol Also, there will be a dedicated video coming up on how we BONDED the trailer to the bonding system :D so hopefully that will be a good companion to this video.
I think that should do very nice. Just had the thought when I do mine I will try to get all the materials at once so I can go across the local truck scales
Are you planning to make a different anergy suplir rather than a core to the house?. your own energy source either panels or through out batteries connections ?
I have a question. I have a completely off-grid small cabin powered by a generator with a 30 amp RV plug that I am looking to wire directly into a panel using a buried underground cable. USING ONLY one leg of the panel as it's 120 only not 240. one hot one neutral and one ground. I'm in the United States and I've talked to a few electricians and pretty much all of them told me to treat it as a main panel. Meaning that neutral and ground go to the same bus bar and are bonded with the bonding screw to the panel. And also that I should ground it to the Earth with a grounding rod. In theory is that correct?
From my understanding, that sounds correct yes. When electricity is generated, voltage is only relative to the source of generation, and the ground/earth is irrelevant. Driving a rod or plate into the soil adds that relationship into the system, and you want to connect the neutral to that reference in that ONE SPOT, at the source of system.
hey guys . I'm useing google SketchUp to make a model for my tiny house and was wondering if you could help me out. I'm not able to find iron ega trailer in the google SketchUp warehouse on the program. the model that I found was a group of 5 trailers and I just need one 8x20. if you could tell me where you got your guys model it would be a big help. thanks and great videos :)
+David g The Iron Eagle trailer that we have is modeled to precision in our Sketchup file. You can find the file at the bottom of our design page (also have a look at our tutorial if you're still learning Sketchup) www.tinynestproject.com/design/ Additionally, check this out if you're looking into getting an Iron Eagle: www.tinynestproject.com/building/
Where do you guys stand budget wise on the build? Did you guys over or underestimate how much it would cost? Since I eventually want to build my own tiny house (I'm still designing it) and it would be nice to hear what kind of budget I'd need. I've seen tiny houses for 60.000$ which seems reasonable but that is with the company building it so since you guys are doing it all yourself it would be nice to know where you guys stand. Another question! Would it be possible to generate enough power troughout the year with solar panels on a tiny house roof to run a triple screen computer setup and lights in the house? Maybe even a fridge, AC, stove, microwave, etc. A lot of people go into the theory behind it but I don't know anything about electricity or solar panels and such. Would it be possible just in general? I'm also excited to see what the inside will look like! I'm pretty sure once you guys start on the inside you will end up changing a few things :D
Jake, @3:46 did you actually mean to say "if the neutral bus was connected to the bonded system here…"? Or did you mean to say "if the neutral bus was connected to the GROUNDED system here…"? I'm confused because you said previously said the neutral bus WAS bonded but not grounded by design.
+Pario A slight correct would probably be to call it the bond*ing* system... The neutral is "grounded" at one spot in an entire system, which is at the main entrance of power (the main panel). A "grounding" conductor connects to a rod/plate that's buried in the earth, and the other end is connected to both the neutral AND the bonding system (in this one spot only). This ensures that all metal, the earth in the vicinity of the electrical system, and the neutral are all at the same electrical potential... leaving only the "hot/energized" conductors at risk of producing a safety hazard. It's tough to explain in text, but I hope this makes sense.
Question: I have been watching all of your tiny house build from the very beginning and am starting the build process on my very own tiny house. I understand from the first videos that you have built your tiny house on your parents' property. Are there any housing and or building codes in your area that you needed to follow or had you needed to do any special steps to achieve it being legal in your area?
+Poouahi Pack A permit, and thus the requirement to meet local codes, is generally issued by the authority of a city or region, but since this structure is on wheels it's not part of a city or region. It's treated more like a vehicle than a house or out-building, and it's perfectly legal to have vehicles on pretty much any property, even uninsured and in different conditions. What we could do is have it certified as a U-Built travel trailer, which would require an inspection to pass the standards of travel trailers. We've also heard that a form of mobile-home insurance can be acquired to cover things like fire, but we haven't looked into that yet. We've simply tried to meet very high standards of building which in turn makes it meet many residential codes when possible.
+Tiny Nest The tricky part, at least here in the states, is zoning. Zoning may allow the parking of an RV or trailer on a property but often its required to be covered and you're not allowed to live in it. Rules vary by city and county though. If you're rural enough though, you can probably get away with it. Its when a neighbor complains that you're in trouble
We decided not to worry about solar for now, but we can always add a stand-alone enclosure beside the tiny house to house any kind of generating equipment, and then feed it in through some of the conduits we ran down through the trailer flange.
i like electronics and all sort of stuff but man my brain cannot understand house wireing systems yet, might hire someone to do it for me when i get to that step, my question i have what if i am off grid but also able to on grid? what kind of system would be best
+Tiny Nest - Great, though I'll be hiring an electrician if ever I get to this stage I would definitely like to understand a little more first, especially when considering the ability to be both on and off-grid. The prospect of trying to design space and routes for fuse boxes, solar inverters, batteries, control panels etc. is a bit daunting! Thanks
To truly answer this requires digging into some electrical system safety fundamentals and physics... you generally only want the system to contact the earth in one spot, and then you want everything to be interconnected and brought back to that one spot... so if you drive a rod into the earth by your trailer, you have created a second ground, which could result in unwanted current flowing along the grounding/bonding system... it's hard to explain in detail in a reply like this, but the short version is: don't just drive a rod somewhere and call'er good lol... that can actually make things less safe in many cases... if you are wondering about connecting the trailer to the earth without interconnecting it to the grounding/bonding system, that would be better than nothing, but then you are relying on the conductivity of the soil to be able to drain any fault-current back to the system ground... this may not be reliable, and is why it's best to connect it with an actual copper conductor. As I always say: if this is not clear, and you can't be 100% certain that you understand the physics of what's going on with this kind of thing, then do not attempt to work on it yourself, because it's extremely easy to create a seriously unsafe situation without knowing it. Be safe!
@@tinynestproject Hi Jake, thanks for your helpful videos and explanations. I understand you published this video a long time ago, so I am a little late with my question: I get the difference between bonding and grounding. In my case my tiny house is on a trailer and completely off-grid. I create my own electrical energy via solar panels. So, in this case I will need to stick a grounding rod into the ground (and bond everything to it). In contrast to your case, I have no other "spot" which I need to bring it back to. Is this understanding correct?
+mimonteboi The neutral bus is connected to the neutral conductor in the cable that supplies to house, which provides a path back to the main service, and thus back to the grounded center-tapped connection to the transformer which is supplying the power :) #thecircleoflife
Nerd! Doing electrical work on existing houses and buildings would be much less exciting if everyone followed your advice about not messing with things you don't understand. I've seen 3 way switch wiring that made me question my own sanity.
+Tiny Nest Looking forward to it. Are GFCI outlets any different in a Tiny House? Any more or less important, for example? I wouldn't think so, but then it hadn't occurred to me that things would be this different. And what would you have to do if you wanted to switch between your current setup and an off-grid solar system. (That sounds odd. Hope you know what I mean.)
+MakeMeThinkAgain We're putting in GFCIs in all the spots that you would in a normal house to be as code-compliant as possible. The typical application for GFCIs is when a receptacle is close to something that you are physically coming in contact with regularly and is very conductive (meaning there is a dangerous potential electrical path through you). This is why they are installed in kitchens and bathrooms because that's usually near metal drains AND water. Same goes for outside because the ground can be wet and very conductive. When I think about it though, our water supply will be from a non-conductive hose (as opposed to a buried copper line) but the water itself can still be conductive, so the concept still applies. Our biggest electrical draw, which keeps us dependent on the grid, is our electric cooking. We have some 12V stuff that you will see later on, but we'd have to be able to supply lots of energy for cooking, or use another cooking method.
+Tiny Nest Are you using induction? I don't know what those units draw. In a Tiny House (or a tiny apartment like mine) there's something to be said for portable induction burners you bring out only when needed. If my stove stopped working I would consider that option and gain some new storage and counter space.
+MakeMeThinkAgain Yes we will start with a single induction element that is cord-connected so that we can take it outside in the summer :) and the oven will be a high-end toaster oven.
I have wired 3 houses and 5 shops and never knew WHY you separate the bond and the neutral. Thanks, I finally understand. You make a fine teacher. As always, I enjoy your content.
+David Gardner Nice! Glad my rambling made sense!
Nice explanation of the electrical information.
Thanks for watching :)
Yep that went straight over my head immediately. Haha. I at least learned that I don't want to do the wiring myself. THANKS!
;D
Awesome info - thanks!
:D
Wonderful. Nice explanation. I was just wondering when you would publish the next stage. Thanks. Always very informative.
+Rayn Gryphon There will be several more electrical videos coming up :)
Tiny Nest
Great. Thanks, Good to know what to do and what not to do.
+Jacob Edward The way you're asking the question is exactly the reason why the term bonding is better :P because of the connotation of "grounding". The tiny house (the electrical system and the house as a whole) will not be "grounded" at all... but it will be bonded to the source's bonding system, which has an electrical path to the system ground, which is where there is continuity to the earth around that area... as you can probably tell, it's not easy to explain :P but the short version is: if you are connecting to the grid, you should not have any direct connection to the earth around your tiny house (except for possibly in extremely rare situations)
+Jacob Edward Yes, in a car's system, everything metal including the chassis is bonded to the negative side of the battery, making the positive "hot". Voltage coming from the positive side of the system must then be treated with care, and all wires and connections must be insulated, whereas the negative can be open since it's all at the same potential as the car itself.
+Jacob Edward When you bond something to one side of a circuit, you're simply bringing it to the same electrical potential as that side... not actually changing the loop of the circuit. Imagine if you scraped your car up against a mile-long metal fence... you could then theoretically run a cable from the positive of your battery all the way to the end of the fence and complete the circuit because there is a path through it back to the negative of the battery... now replace the fence with the earth...
thank you guys for all your help:)
+David g Thanks for watching!
I know you have people rubbing their temples and reaching for some asprin. lol. In the U.S. we call it a grounding wire and neutral. I think if you stated out right that most tiny houses do not have a grounding (bonding) connection buried in the ground, (it was mentioned in passing) a simple one line diagram might of helped also.
+Duane C Heh, yeah I'm hesitant to give the kind of instruction that might lead people to get themselves into trouble :P since I know how bad it can get.
There is a movement to change the vast majority of the use of "ground" to "bond" because in most places that you see that bare copper wire, it's not actually "grounding" anything... it's "electrically bonding" all metal together so that a fault-current can flow back to the neutral bus in the panel at the point where it is actually "grounded" and then continue to flow back to the source along the neutral.... the buried rod/plate is connected to the panel with a "grounding" conductor, and that is the only "grounding" conductor and it is never referred to with the term "bond".... it's how I learned it, since I started my apprenticeship in 2008, and it makes sense and I'm stickin' to it! lol
Also, there will be a dedicated video coming up on how we BONDED the trailer to the bonding system :D so hopefully that will be a good companion to this video.
+Duane C Basically any sub panel (meaning a panel other than the main panel) the neutral bus should be isolated and not bonded to the panel itself.
Well said!
+The Contractor Dude :)
looking great do you have any idea how your house will weigh when it is finished
+Scott Tyndall We had calculated it to be 8k-9k lbs, but that's fairly rough, we may need to recalculate once we have all the finishing materials.
I think that should do very nice. Just had the thought when I do mine I will try to get all the materials at once so I can go across the local truck scales
Are you planning to make a different anergy suplir rather than a core to the house?.
your own energy source either panels or through out batteries connections ?
+Roelby Gomez To start we will be on grid, but we may switch part of the system over to battery-fed in the future.
I have a question. I have a completely off-grid small cabin powered by a generator with a 30 amp RV plug that I am looking to wire directly into a panel using a buried underground cable. USING ONLY one leg of the panel as it's 120 only not 240. one hot one neutral and one ground. I'm in the United States and I've talked to a few electricians and pretty much all of them told me to treat it as a main panel. Meaning that neutral and ground go to the same bus bar and are bonded with the bonding screw to the panel. And also that I should ground it to the Earth with a grounding rod. In theory is that correct?
From my understanding, that sounds correct yes. When electricity is generated, voltage is only relative to the source of generation, and the ground/earth is irrelevant. Driving a rod or plate into the soil adds that relationship into the system, and you want to connect the neutral to that reference in that ONE SPOT, at the source of system.
hey guys . I'm useing google SketchUp to make a model for my tiny house and was wondering if you could help me out. I'm not able to find iron ega trailer in the google SketchUp warehouse on the program. the model that I found was a group of 5 trailers and I just need one 8x20. if you could tell me where you got your guys model it would be a big help. thanks and great videos :)
+David g The Iron Eagle trailer that we have is modeled to precision in our Sketchup file. You can find the file at the bottom of our design page (also have a look at our tutorial if you're still learning Sketchup) www.tinynestproject.com/design/
Additionally, check this out if you're looking into getting an Iron Eagle: www.tinynestproject.com/building/
Where do you guys stand budget wise on the build?
Did you guys over or underestimate how much it would cost?
Since I eventually want to build my own tiny house (I'm still designing it) and it would be nice to hear what kind of budget I'd need. I've seen tiny houses for 60.000$ which seems reasonable but that is with the company building it so since you guys are doing it all yourself it would be nice to know where you guys stand.
Another question!
Would it be possible to generate enough power troughout the year with solar panels on a tiny house roof to run a triple screen computer setup and lights in the house? Maybe even a fridge, AC, stove, microwave, etc.
A lot of people go into the theory behind it but I don't know anything about electricity or solar panels and such.
Would it be possible just in general?
I'm also excited to see what the inside will look like!
I'm pretty sure once you guys start on the inside you will end up changing a few things :D
Jake, @3:46 did you actually mean to say "if the neutral bus was connected to the bonded system here…"? Or did you mean to say "if the neutral bus was connected to the GROUNDED system here…"? I'm confused because you said previously said the neutral bus WAS bonded but not grounded by design.
+Pario A slight correct would probably be to call it the bond*ing* system... The neutral is "grounded" at one spot in an entire system, which is at the main entrance of power (the main panel). A "grounding" conductor connects to a rod/plate that's buried in the earth, and the other end is connected to both the neutral AND the bonding system (in this one spot only). This ensures that all metal, the earth in the vicinity of the electrical system, and the neutral are all at the same electrical potential... leaving only the "hot/energized" conductors at risk of producing a safety hazard.
It's tough to explain in text, but I hope this makes sense.
Question: I have been watching all of your tiny house build from the very beginning and am starting the build process on my very own tiny house. I understand from the first videos that you have built your tiny house on your parents' property. Are there any housing and or building codes in your area that you needed to follow or had you needed to do any special steps to achieve it being legal in your area?
+Poouahi Pack A permit, and thus the requirement to meet local codes, is generally issued by the authority of a city or region, but since this structure is on wheels it's not part of a city or region. It's treated more like a vehicle than a house or out-building, and it's perfectly legal to have vehicles on pretty much any property, even uninsured and in different conditions. What we could do is have it certified as a U-Built travel trailer, which would require an inspection to pass the standards of travel trailers. We've also heard that a form of mobile-home insurance can be acquired to cover things like fire, but we haven't looked into that yet.
We've simply tried to meet very high standards of building which in turn makes it meet many residential codes when possible.
+Tiny Nest The tricky part, at least here in the states, is zoning. Zoning may allow the parking of an RV or trailer on a property but often its required to be covered and you're not allowed to live in it. Rules vary by city and county though. If you're rural enough though, you can probably get away with it. Its when a neighbor complains that you're in trouble
+Bike Man Dan Exactly :)
What about hooking up solar panels?
We decided not to worry about solar for now, but we can always add a stand-alone enclosure beside the tiny house to house any kind of generating equipment, and then feed it in through some of the conduits we ran down through the trailer flange.
i like electronics and all sort of stuff but man my brain cannot understand house wireing systems yet, might hire someone to do it for me when i get to that step, my question i have what if i am off grid but also able to on grid? what kind of system would be best
+Evilroots Electronics coming soon!
+Tiny Nest - Great, though I'll be hiring an electrician if ever I get to this stage I would definitely like to understand a little more first, especially when considering the ability to be both on and off-grid. The prospect of trying to design space and routes for fuse boxes, solar inverters, batteries, control panels etc. is a bit daunting! Thanks
+previouslyachimp There is definitely a lot to figure out ahead of time :P
Could you ground the trailer to it's own separate grounding rod?
To truly answer this requires digging into some electrical system safety fundamentals and physics... you generally only want the system to contact the earth in one spot, and then you want everything to be interconnected and brought back to that one spot... so if you drive a rod into the earth by your trailer, you have created a second ground, which could result in unwanted current flowing along the grounding/bonding system... it's hard to explain in detail in a reply like this, but the short version is: don't just drive a rod somewhere and call'er good lol... that can actually make things less safe in many cases... if you are wondering about connecting the trailer to the earth without interconnecting it to the grounding/bonding system, that would be better than nothing, but then you are relying on the conductivity of the soil to be able to drain any fault-current back to the system ground... this may not be reliable, and is why it's best to connect it with an actual copper conductor.
As I always say: if this is not clear, and you can't be 100% certain that you understand the physics of what's going on with this kind of thing, then do not attempt to work on it yourself, because it's extremely easy to create a seriously unsafe situation without knowing it. Be safe!
@@tinynestproject Hi Jake, thanks for your helpful videos and explanations. I understand you published this video a long time ago, so I am a little late with my question: I get the difference between bonding and grounding. In my case my tiny house is on a trailer and completely off-grid. I create my own electrical energy via solar panels. So, in this case I will need to stick a grounding rod into the ground (and bond everything to it). In contrast to your case, I have no other "spot" which I need to bring it back to.
Is this understanding correct?
so where then is the loop closed? you can connect all the neutral wires to a bus that leads to nowhere and call it good??
+mimonteboi The neutral bus is connected to the neutral conductor in the cable that supplies to house, which provides a path back to the main service, and thus back to the grounded center-tapped connection to the transformer which is supplying the power :) #thecircleoflife
I found an error in your video. You said it was long winded and its not....
+gayglennp ;D
Yeah, 3 minutes in and I'm down the rabbit-home...
+My Name is Victory ;) is that a good thing?
Nerd!
Doing electrical work on existing houses and buildings would be much less exciting if everyone followed your advice about not messing with things you don't understand. I've seen 3 way switch wiring that made me question my own sanity.
+MakeMeThinkAgain Oh man if you think this was nerdy, you're in for quite a treat when we get into the home automation :|
+Tiny Nest Looking forward to it.
Are GFCI outlets any different in a Tiny House? Any more or less important, for example? I wouldn't think so, but then it hadn't occurred to me that things would be this different.
And what would you have to do if you wanted to switch between your current setup and an off-grid solar system. (That sounds odd. Hope you know what I mean.)
+MakeMeThinkAgain We're putting in GFCIs in all the spots that you would in a normal house to be as code-compliant as possible. The typical application for GFCIs is when a receptacle is close to something that you are physically coming in contact with regularly and is very conductive (meaning there is a dangerous potential electrical path through you). This is why they are installed in kitchens and bathrooms because that's usually near metal drains AND water. Same goes for outside because the ground can be wet and very conductive. When I think about it though, our water supply will be from a non-conductive hose (as opposed to a buried copper line) but the water itself can still be conductive, so the concept still applies.
Our biggest electrical draw, which keeps us dependent on the grid, is our electric cooking. We have some 12V stuff that you will see later on, but we'd have to be able to supply lots of energy for cooking, or use another cooking method.
+Tiny Nest Are you using induction? I don't know what those units draw. In a Tiny House (or a tiny apartment like mine) there's something to be said for portable induction burners you bring out only when needed. If my stove stopped working I would consider that option and gain some new storage and counter space.
+MakeMeThinkAgain Yes we will start with a single induction element that is cord-connected so that we can take it outside in the summer :) and the oven will be a high-end toaster oven.