This is the best subpanel installation guide I was able to find on TH-cam. Thank you so much. It's mostly because of this video that I was able to install our School Bus Conversion's panel. Seriously, thank you.
I have been following your channel for a few months now and your videos are just great. I have a notebook where I have been writing down everything for my tiny house, and I always jot down notes from your videos of things to reference when I get to the building stage of my tiny house or things I want to look into further. You have me super excited to start building next year, and I also can't wait to see your completed tiny house!
Tamika Englehart I do exactly the same with regards the notes, these guys have inspired me greatly to go Tiny and their knowledge sharing is a real blessing. Did you follow through with your Tiny House?
+Scott Tyndall In the Canadian code, the tie can be removed only if the multi-wire branch circuit it's supplying is lighting or plugs, and none of the plugs are split-plugs. Other than that it must remain tied. We have two multi-wire branch circuits, one of which will be a split-plug, so that one will remain tied, but the other would probably benefit from being untied. Thanks for motivating me to double-check this :D
Love your guys videos especially the outtakes. You should do a video on the must have tools for building a tiny house, possibly could make for an interesting video :D
+Dustin O We can't reply to your comments... have a look at this video to see why: th-cam.com/video/9JstXOp0jjo/w-d-xo.html But to address your "phase" comment: What you said was totally correct for a 3-phase service/supply, but almost all residential services are single-phase. Electricity is usually generated and transmitted in 3-phase (that's why you see the 3 wires on power-poles) but when it's transformed down to 120/240 for normal residences, only one of the 3 lines is used to operate a single-phase transformer (those cylinder cans) to produce the single phase power that we get in our homes :)
The newer NEC code, after recently looking over it, seems to require the AFCI's on almost every circuit in the house now, including living rooms, etc. Bathrooms and kitchens require both AFCI and GFCI. But once again, Canada may be different. I am enjoying your videos, and thee tutorial has been very informative so far.
+Tony Corley I believe there are similar requirements in the latest (or forthcoming) CEC, but I've been a bit out of touch with it lately... since we've been building the tiny house for so long!
Nice job....:) A few questions: Are you going to have any DC circuits? If so will they be in another panel? Do you have a backup generator or something for when the power goes out? Can your accept the shore power for either 30 or 50 amps? Thanks
+1timby I think it will be the next episode that we start showing the low-voltage and control systems. We don't have a generator, but we might eventually add batteries/solar, and I might get a UPS for my PC. The system can accept up to 50A @ 240V.
OK I understand about the load center or as we call it a subpage but is the 15a del breaker feeding a 220 circuit or two 110 circuits with a shared neutral? cause if it is the later shouldn't you remove the tie between the two breakers? not criticizing just asking
+Scott Tyndall It's for two 120V circuits, and I'll have to double-check what the code says, but the practical answer is yes you can remove the tie so that tripping one circuit doesn't shut off the other; but when it comes to shutting it off to work on it, it means you are forced to shut off power to the entire cable.
I'm trying to purchase the things I need to install the panel...if I'm correct (and I'm probably not) For my heater and A/C, Stove, Fridge and W/D I would just need 3 of the 2 pole 20 amp breakers....am I correct?
The worst thing to mix with electrical work is uncertainty... breakers are sized to protect the wiring and devices on the circuit, so it depends on that... I know in a lot of places in the USA they use #12 wire, but I'm not sure if most circuits are breakered at 20A... I highly recommend getting in-person help, and definitely do not install anything that you are not 100% confident is correct and safe!
+Scott Tyndall This panel is acting as a load-center (meaning no main-breaker). The breaker that will feed this panel will be inside our garage's panel. Make sense? The tied breakers, the 15A ones, are for 2-circuit 3-wire runs. It's what I was talking about when I said we needed to make sure the red and black from these 3-wire cables are on opposite lines, which is so that the neutral only ever carries the difference in current.
Great videos! Very helpful and informative. So I’ve got a rookie question and haven’t really been able to find a solid answer. I’ve wired my tiny house to Connect to a 50 amp rv plug coming in from an external outlet. The service panel in the tiny house is wired like yours with the mains coming in and connecting to the lugs. My question is do I connect the green screw to bond the neutral or should I treat it like a sub panel and leave it unbounded?
In most cases you would want to treat it like a sub-panel. An electrical system should only be grounded in one spot, because multiple connections to the earth can lead to current flowing through the dirt and along other bonding wires, which is a safety hazard. However, there are situations where you would need to re-ground, such as if you are so far away from the main ground and/or the composition of the earth is insulative... but you'd need to do some testing for that, with equipment that I've hardly ever used...
Nice looking work. Couple of quick questions, please. Why a subpanel instead of a main breaker panel? Also, it's my understanding, (and please correct me if wrong) that, (1) Putting 2 grounds under 1 screw as you stated doing in the video is against NEC code, (2) It is also my understanding that according to code, the majority of breakers in the system are now required to be AFCI? I am planning my new house now, and looking to clarify these questions. Just ordered your planning tutorial btw. Edit, Just realized that the answer to my question may be the fact that you guys are in Canada, lol.
+Tony Corley I figured that the only purpose of having a main breaker would be to have the ability to shut off the entire system locally with a single flip. This ability didn't seem to merit the use of a second breaker. The configuration that we ended up with would not have had space for one anyway (with a similar sized panel). A few people have asked about this so far, and I guess my response is: "is there a reason I should have a main breaker?" Another viewer pointed out that my comment about putting two neutrals under a single screw was against code (but that putting two bonds under a bonding screw was ok). I could not find the rule in my Canadian code (I am a bit rusty :P) and the organization of the NEC is totally different... I found an explanation for the NEC rule which does make a good case against doubling neutrals, but it's based on a very rare case (when you're working inside a live panel, which ultimately no one is "supposed" to be doing, even electricians now)... so officially you shouldn't, but in a residential panel where no one will ever be poking around live, and you're completely out of neutral terminals, it wouldn't be the worst thing you could do. I don't think doubling bonds is a problem, except in the same rare case behind not doubling neutrals (and to an even lesser importance). I think there have been updates to the rules, but I'm used to requiring AFCIs in bedrooms, which are defined by having a closet... which is not applicable in the tiny house. They are not a bad idea though, and like I said, I believe the rules are becoming more strict, but I haven't brushed up on everything.
A very neat job, but section 550 of the National Electric Code should be consulted, even if you are below they square foot requirement for this code to apply. Arc Fault breakers are a good thing and required by section 550.
I am admittedly rusty on code (ever more-so now than when this video was filmed) but I remember that Arc-Faults were required in bedrooms (defined by having a closet). In the case of a tiny house, where would you suggest that AFs be installed? In the loft? Everywhere?
We have a 12V power supply mounted in the "control box" which is just part of the wall with a cabinet door to cover it. The whole 12V system is something that I'm really hoping to tackle this winter.
Phase is correct, because there are three phases of electricity (as it comes out of a generator). The alternating current (AC) goes up and down and each phase does this 33 degrees off from each other.
+Dustin O Strange that I never replied to this earlier... Power is generated by rotating magnetic fields (a generator) and so one "electrical cycle" is measured as 360 degrees, since a circular revolution is required to produce it. For a few reasons, generating 3 phases is the most practical. 3 phases are offset by an equal amount for a consistent supply of power, so you divide 360 by 3 and get the 120 degree difference between them... however, this is all irrelevant for us because a normal residential supply is single-phase. There is one 240V phase, which is tapped in the middle so that you can get 120V between either end and that center-tap (where it is grounded) or get 240V by connecting to both ends. These two ends can be referred to as "legs" or "lines" because they are not separate "phases", just opposite sides of a solitary phase. The two ends would be 180 degrees out from each other because they are perfect opposites of the same source. Hope that makes sense!
Hi Jake, great job on everything overall. I'm learning a lot from your channel and applying what I can to my own tiny house. I am an electrician in the US and I'm just curious do you do mostly residential or commercial type work? Can't wait for your next video.
I did most of my apprenticeship in residential, but have poked around in some commercial and light industrial. My career has not been particularly extensive though, since I'm more of a video-editor than electrician lately!
FYI, we often see comments that are un-repliable, and it's because of a Google+ setting. Here's a video explaining how to change it: th-cam.com/video/9JstXOp0jjo/w-d-xo.html +Flexmeister +Deric Kettel +Tamika Englehart
This may be an absurd question, but what do his do with the red wire if you’re running 12/3 or 14/3 just because you have it AND because it makes dedicated circuits easier as well as 3 way and 4 way switches? Thanks. I’ve run lots of wire but my first circuit box & 1st tiny home.
In our case, we used it in a few specific runs where we wanted to do two circuits at once... but this is only possible because we have a 240V service, which is not very common... most tiny houses would be 120V, which is admittedly much simpler... but because I'm an electrician, and we need lots of power for electric cooking, I went for the 240V. Running two circuits using a 3-wire cable is very common, but if it's connected incorrectly, it can be a truly dangerous fire hazard, so before working on it make sure you fully understand the use-cases and ask for a knowledgeable second set of eyes to look it over. Stay safe! :)
+LiveYourLife89 It's not so much a recommendation as it is a matter of making sure your wires and equipment are protected by a breaker that will not allow more current to flow than is safe. A panel rated for 100A means that it can handle up to 100A, but you could supply it with less if you wanted. We will probably end up with a 40A supply to our 125A panel because that's all the power we will need, and it would be cumbersome and expensive to use cable rated for a full 125A. If you wanted a full 100A to your panel, you would use a minimum of a #3-AWG copper (according to my 2012 Canadian code book)... when I took my exam, they had recently introduced rules to account for the fact that breakers were rated for 75-degrees and not 90 like most cabling... so you would have to use the 75-deg value for ampacities as to not overheat the breakers... plus you never want to draw more than 80% of the breakers rating on a given circuit under normal conditions... but you still have to use cabling that can handle the full rating... simple right!? ;D
Did you connect the neutral and ground or "earth" buses together in your mini panel or did you leave them separate? The joining would be done in the main panel correct? So this would not be necessary in the "sub panel". Is this also true for a 50amp RV connection say at a temp pole or an RV park? Would leaving the grounding and neutral buses separate be safe for generator use?
Generally, the neutral should only be connected to ground/earth at one spot in the entire system, but there are exceptions in specific situations (electrical code books will specify). It's my understanding that you WOULD want it interconnected when generating your own power, because there would be no bond-return-path otherwise... but I haven't worked on a system like that yet... we hope to get some of our own generated power to the tiny house one day. We actually have an entire video that talks all about this subject here: th-cam.com/video/YfmqaUdYdzg/w-d-xo.html
+Bike Man Dan Hm, I admit I'm a bit rusty on code memorization, so I tried to find a rule that explains either of these cases (doubling bonding or neutrals) and can't find it... are you aware of a specific rule? What section is it in? I would generally only double a neutral if I'm completely out of space and the two conductors are the same gauge. There's nothing about the physical electrical connection that I can think of that would be hazardous in doing this.
Mini's or tandems are not my first choice for breakers. I like to size the panel for full size breakers with room for extra circuits. I am sure you have your reasons. Nice work! R u union?
What no Ben in this video. His agent will want to know why. Careful he is part of the doggie actors guild of America. Those doggies have big union that seems to get bigger daily. :-) Thanks for sharing.
so strange to see that wiring setup in the uk the sparkies use a total different system we don't have the earth cable going into our fuse boxes here each socket has its own earth neutral connections just the live wires are fed into the fuse box
+1deartman Have a look through the comments for my other answers to this questions, but basically the only reason to have one here is to allow for one-touch shutoff of the house, which would be very rarely useful... so we saved a few bucks and some panel-space by skipping it.
Great video...its the best on TH-cam I've seen thus far? I have a question, I get placing of the grounds on the left and the neutrals on the right and the hot wires seems to go in the breakers, but what about the output wire at the bottom right in the panel that goes to the rest of the house? Is it joined with the hot wires in the breakers?
+Calvert Edwards Thanks :)... I'm not entirely sure what you're asking... The cable in the bottom right is just another branch-circuit, feeding some plugs, exactly like every cable that enters the top of the panel. The cable on the bottom left is the feeder for house (power input). To see more detail about that cable you can watch this video: th-cam.com/video/WH_aV6MiHxc/w-d-xo.html
Technically (according to US code at least) you should have a main breaker on that sub panel...since it is a separate structure, you need to me able to kill the whole service in 6 throws of your hand or less
Ah interesting... I'm actually not sure what the equivalent Canadian code is on this specific topic... but I can karate-chop the entire service in two chops ;D It might still be possible to rearrange some of the breakers and insert a main in the future, if I needed to.
Hey Jake and Kiva! I have really been appreciating your videos they have been helping me a lot. You guys do a good work especially in the way you keep everything ORGANIZED so kudos. I have a question about service wires (I am building a tiny house too!). If I ran two 15 amp cables from a house I am parked behind, can I "combine" these cables to achieve higher amperage or voltage feeding the tiny house breaker panel? If so how much amperage at what voltage would I get? 30 amps at 240 volts? (I'm in the USA.) Second, what's the easiest way to wire these two, three-conductor cables to the tiny house breaker box? (I assume they must be three conductor because they will be plugged into regular 15 amp receptacles in our landlord's house.) Thank you so much in advance.
Thanks for watching :) I would encourage you to abandon the idea of combining cables. It is physically possible, but would almost definitely violate codes/regulations, and could easily lead to a dangerous situation. The voltage depends on if you've connected to one or two (both) of the legs available, and the amperage depends on the diameter of the wire (the wires inside the cable). So you can see that we used a cable that is big enough to feed a range (oven) and has a 4th conductor in it, which allows us to bring in the second leg of the system (providing a 240V supply). Many tiny houses only bring in one leg because the total electrical demand is very low. You will need to carefully tally up all of your electrical equipment's power requirements and size your cabling accordingly. Be safe!
Thanks for getting back to me. So you guys set up your own 240v circuit at the subpanel you draw from? (As opposed to plugging in to two separate 120v circuits.)
I see that you have two hot wires coming from the inlet to the two 125v busses. If I'm using a 30 Amp RV inlet, (which has only one hot wire) how can I accomplish this?
Short answer: you can't... there is no way to create another leg if you only have one to work with. Many tiny houses are wired entirely for 120V. We chose to go for 240V because it doubles the capacity of system, and because we knew that we would always be in a spot where we could hook up to a 240V source.
Thanks for the response. Very helpful. Do you know if it's dangerous to create jumper between hot busses, which would essentially create a single 120V bus? I have space for only six breakers in my 100A box (three breaker slots per hot bus), so if I didn't do something like that, I would be limited to three breakers. I suppose I could use single pole tandem breakers, but for my Square D panel, they don't seem to make them in CAFCI, which is what I'm determined to use. I guess my question, specifically, is this: How do I wire a 240v breaker for 120v, while being able to use all of the available space on the two hot busses? Thanks again.
It could be dangerous... I would definitely not modify the bus in any way (like drilling into it or screwing down a wire directly to it). It might be possible to jumper using breakers, meaning you put a breaker on each bus and then connect them to each other with a wire... so you're essentially turning the second bus into a sub-panel. You'd need to size the breakers and wire correctly. Whatever you do, be SUPER careful and get a second opinion on it... if you make a mistake, it can mean a fiery death, so take it seriously!
I haven't hooked up the system yet, but I simply pigtailed a piece of 10 ga wire into the first bus, and used that wire to connect to the second. There is absolutely no modification of the breaker box.
Just be sure you are protecting that wiring with a properly sized breaker, otherwise it can overheat and cause a fire. #10 wire can't handle any more than 30A, so from what you've described, your entire system can never safely be fed by a breaker rated higher than 30. Also, you cannot safely load a breaker more than 80%, so (80% x 30A x 120V) = 2880W grand total for your system.
Ah just wondering about the name Scott lol Our panel is rated for 125A but it's being fed by a 50A cable, and protected by a 40A breaker... so the system is currently 40A at 240V which provides a maximum possible of around 7500W continuous (but we won't be using anywhere near that much... just need the headroom for short-term loads like electric cooking).
Okay cool, thanks! Just out of curiosity, why didn't you opt for a 50A RV power inlet on the tiny house instead of the direct wire (from garage to tiny house)?
The short answer is cost vs know-how... Those RV components can be expensive and since I know how to manually wire things up, we chose to do it that way, at least to start with. We wanted to get it powered on and were at a tight spot in our budget. We might add cord-ends in the future.
Y los dobles Breyker yo no los recomiendo por ke no son seguros . No puedes poner dos dedicados por ke se va botar pero si puedes poner algo liviano como luces o ploges pero ke no sean de alto consumo
+Greg d Greg d The panel is rate up to 125A, the cable that supplies it could do 55A (in theory), and we will probably run a 30A cable from the house... so the entire system is only as capable as the lowest-rated part. Also, average breakers are only rated for 80% of their amperage, so a 30A breaker should not be used to supply more than 24A under normal conditions.
We actually went with a 40A breaker to give ourselves a little headroom. It's still probably more than we need, and we will be monitoring our power use and making a video about it in the future :)
I know this is an old video, but im a but confused.. your 8 gauge service wire is rated for 50 amps, but you have a lot more amps if you add up all the breaker amp ratings.. what am i missing here? How are these correlated? Great vid, thanks!
It's an "evergreen" video... we hope lol ;D Good question, it's very basic electrical... each branch circuit is protected such that the conductors will never be subjected to more current than they are rated for (and thus not overheat). 15A is the minimum standard, so even though the circuit is capable of delivering up to 12A (80%) it's unlikely that we would be plugging in enough to draw that, and the rest is unused headroom... so the breakers handle each individual run of cable, while the service cable represents the maximum total power that can be delivered at any moment in time. We purposely oversized the main feeder so that we can run almost everything in the house at once without it tripping the breaker (which is a situation that will probably never occur anyway).
Not sure how to answer this exactly. There is only one input into a panel like this, so whatever cable is bringing power in will go to those input lugs.
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This is the best subpanel installation guide I was able to find on TH-cam. Thank you so much. It's mostly because of this video that I was able to install our School Bus Conversion's panel. Seriously, thank you.
Thanks for watching!
A work of art! It's a pleasure to observe another craftsman at work!
+Ranald Hooper :D
Loved the time lapse and also the end of the video where the picture freezes and you look like someone from a most wanted poster. LOL great stuff!
I have been following your channel for a few months now and your videos are just great. I have a notebook where I have been writing down everything for my tiny house, and I always jot down notes from your videos of things to reference when I get to the building stage of my tiny house or things I want to look into further. You have me super excited to start building next year, and I also can't wait to see your completed tiny house!
Tamika Englehart I do exactly the same with regards the notes, these guys have inspired me greatly to go Tiny and their knowledge sharing is a real blessing. Did you follow through with your Tiny House?
Beautiful job once again! The inside of your panel looks so much neater than any I have ever done.
+Tom Langley ;D
As always, great job. You make electrical look effortless.
+David Gardner Thanks!
You do such a great job, Jake. Such "attention to detail" as they say. You make me wanna be a better electrician!
+Bryant Ford :D
Beautiful work all around but especially your electrical.
Thanks :)
Awesome! Don't let people get to you. They just like to rattle you. Jealousy mostly. I think you both do a great job.
+M.R. Hawks Ha, we get very few negative comments, but we're also not bothered by them at all.
Oh wow! I just caught up with all the videos and didn't realize that you are still (today) working on this...awesome! Keep up the good work.
really appreciate this, nice clean work.
Thanks :) gotta make the effort
excellent explanation. GOD bless you
that makes sense .. curious to see what your research comes up with keep up the great wrk
+Scott Tyndall In the Canadian code, the tie can be removed only if the multi-wire branch circuit it's supplying is lighting or plugs, and none of the plugs are split-plugs. Other than that it must remain tied. We have two multi-wire branch circuits, one of which will be a split-plug, so that one will remain tied, but the other would probably benefit from being untied. Thanks for motivating me to double-check this :D
no problem glad I could help
Another good video, was Kiva in the background with 2 liters of coffee during the time lapse? LOL! Looked like a caffeine rush!
+Eric Rider ;)
Love your guys videos especially the outtakes. You should do a video on the must have tools for building a tiny house, possibly could make for an interesting video :D
+Jellyfish 703 Nice suggestion :) hopefully we can get around to that.
+Dustin O
We can't reply to your comments... have a look at this video to see why: th-cam.com/video/9JstXOp0jjo/w-d-xo.html
But to address your "phase" comment: What you said was totally correct for a 3-phase service/supply, but almost all residential services are single-phase. Electricity is usually generated and transmitted in 3-phase (that's why you see the 3 wires on power-poles) but when it's transformed down to 120/240 for normal residences, only one of the 3 lines is used to operate a single-phase transformer (those cylinder cans) to produce the single phase power that we get in our homes :)
The newer NEC code, after recently looking over it, seems to require the AFCI's on almost every circuit in the house now, including living rooms, etc. Bathrooms and kitchens require both AFCI and GFCI. But once again, Canada may be different. I am enjoying your videos, and thee tutorial has been very informative so far.
+Tony Corley I believe there are similar requirements in the latest (or forthcoming) CEC, but I've been a bit out of touch with it lately... since we've been building the tiny house for so long!
wow, now that is how it is done. you would laugh at my 2 circuit super basic setup. I learn so much from you guys so keep on making the vids!!
+spencer sousa Thanks for watching!
Im glad you know what you are doing--I would never attempt that myself. So does someone come and inspect it?
The outlet under your breaker box...is that to feed in a generator?
Nice job....:)
A few questions:
Are you going to have any DC circuits? If so will they be in another panel?
Do you have a backup generator or something for when the power goes out?
Can your accept the shore power for either 30 or 50 amps?
Thanks
+1timby I think it will be the next episode that we start showing the low-voltage and control systems. We don't have a generator, but we might eventually add batteries/solar, and I might get a UPS for my PC. The system can accept up to 50A @ 240V.
OK I understand about the load center or as we call it a subpage but is the 15a del breaker feeding a 220 circuit or two 110 circuits with a shared neutral? cause if it is the later shouldn't you remove the tie between the two breakers? not criticizing just asking
+Scott Tyndall It's for two 120V circuits, and I'll have to double-check what the code says, but the practical answer is yes you can remove the tie so that tripping one circuit doesn't shut off the other; but when it comes to shutting it off to work on it, it means you are forced to shut off power to the entire cable.
I'm trying to purchase the things I need to install the panel...if I'm correct (and I'm probably not) For my heater and A/C, Stove, Fridge and W/D I would just need 3 of the 2 pole 20 amp breakers....am I correct?
The worst thing to mix with electrical work is uncertainty... breakers are sized to protect the wiring and devices on the circuit, so it depends on that... I know in a lot of places in the USA they use #12 wire, but I'm not sure if most circuits are breakered at 20A... I highly recommend getting in-person help, and definitely do not install anything that you are not 100% confident is correct and safe!
just curious but where is your main breaker and in the breakers that are ganged together what would the dbl poll breakers be for
+Scott Tyndall This panel is acting as a load-center (meaning no main-breaker). The breaker that will feed this panel will be inside our garage's panel. Make sense?
The tied breakers, the 15A ones, are for 2-circuit 3-wire runs. It's what I was talking about when I said we needed to make sure the red and black from these 3-wire cables are on opposite lines, which is so that the neutral only ever carries the difference in current.
Great videos! Very helpful and informative. So I’ve got a rookie question and haven’t really been able to find a solid answer. I’ve wired my tiny house to Connect to a 50 amp rv plug coming in from an external outlet. The service panel in the tiny house is wired like yours with the mains coming in and connecting to the lugs. My question is do I connect the green screw to bond the neutral or should I treat it like a sub panel and leave it unbounded?
In most cases you would want to treat it like a sub-panel. An electrical system should only be grounded in one spot, because multiple connections to the earth can lead to current flowing through the dirt and along other bonding wires, which is a safety hazard. However, there are situations where you would need to re-ground, such as if you are so far away from the main ground and/or the composition of the earth is insulative... but you'd need to do some testing for that, with equipment that I've hardly ever used...
Nice looking work. Couple of quick questions, please. Why a subpanel instead of a main breaker panel? Also, it's my understanding, (and please correct me if wrong) that, (1) Putting 2 grounds under 1 screw as you stated doing in the video is against NEC code, (2) It is also my understanding that according to code, the majority of breakers in the system are now required to be AFCI? I am planning my new house now, and looking to clarify these questions. Just ordered your planning tutorial btw. Edit, Just realized that the answer to my question may be the fact that you guys are in Canada, lol.
+Tony Corley I figured that the only purpose of having a main breaker would be to have the ability to shut off the entire system locally with a single flip. This ability didn't seem to merit the use of a second breaker. The configuration that we ended up with would not have had space for one anyway (with a similar sized panel). A few people have asked about this so far, and I guess my response is: "is there a reason I should have a main breaker?"
Another viewer pointed out that my comment about putting two neutrals under a single screw was against code (but that putting two bonds under a bonding screw was ok). I could not find the rule in my Canadian code (I am a bit rusty :P) and the organization of the NEC is totally different... I found an explanation for the NEC rule which does make a good case against doubling neutrals, but it's based on a very rare case (when you're working inside a live panel, which ultimately no one is "supposed" to be doing, even electricians now)... so officially you shouldn't, but in a residential panel where no one will ever be poking around live, and you're completely out of neutral terminals, it wouldn't be the worst thing you could do. I don't think doubling bonds is a problem, except in the same rare case behind not doubling neutrals (and to an even lesser importance).
I think there have been updates to the rules, but I'm used to requiring AFCIs in bedrooms, which are defined by having a closet... which is not applicable in the tiny house. They are not a bad idea though, and like I said, I believe the rules are becoming more strict, but I haven't brushed up on everything.
A very neat job, but section 550 of the National Electric Code should be consulted, even if you are below they square foot requirement for this code to apply. Arc Fault breakers are a good thing and required by section 550.
I am admittedly rusty on code (ever more-so now than when this video was filmed) but I remember that Arc-Faults were required in bedrooms (defined by having a closet). In the case of a tiny house, where would you suggest that AFs be installed? In the loft? Everywhere?
How does the 12v stuff tie in? I know you said eventually you'd like to get it on battery power but, in the interim how are you powering it?
We have a 12V power supply mounted in the "control box" which is just part of the wall with a cabinet door to cover it. The whole 12V system is something that I'm really hoping to tackle this winter.
Phase is correct, because there are three phases of electricity (as it comes out of a generator). The alternating current (AC) goes up and down and each phase does this 33 degrees off from each other.
+Dustin O Actually, each phase is 120 electrical degrees out from each other in a balanced system.
You're right, in a 360 deg circle. :-P
+Dustin O Strange that I never replied to this earlier... Power is generated by rotating magnetic fields (a generator) and so one "electrical cycle" is measured as 360 degrees, since a circular revolution is required to produce it. For a few reasons, generating 3 phases is the most practical. 3 phases are offset by an equal amount for a consistent supply of power, so you divide 360 by 3 and get the 120 degree difference between them... however, this is all irrelevant for us because a normal residential supply is single-phase. There is one 240V phase, which is tapped in the middle so that you can get 120V between either end and that center-tap (where it is grounded) or get 240V by connecting to both ends. These two ends can be referred to as "legs" or "lines" because they are not separate "phases", just opposite sides of a solitary phase. The two ends would be 180 degrees out from each other because they are perfect opposites of the same source. Hope that makes sense!
Hi Jake, great job on everything overall. I'm learning a lot from your channel and applying what I can to my own tiny house. I am an electrician in the US and I'm just curious do you do mostly residential or commercial type work? Can't wait for your next video.
I did most of my apprenticeship in residential, but have poked around in some commercial and light industrial. My career has not been particularly extensive though, since I'm more of a video-editor than electrician lately!
FYI, we often see comments that are un-repliable, and it's because of a Google+ setting. Here's a video explaining how to change it: th-cam.com/video/9JstXOp0jjo/w-d-xo.html
+Flexmeister
+Deric Kettel
+Tamika Englehart
This may be an absurd question, but what do his do with the red wire if you’re running 12/3 or 14/3 just because you have it AND because it makes dedicated circuits easier as well as 3 way and 4 way switches? Thanks. I’ve run lots of wire but my first circuit box & 1st tiny home.
In our case, we used it in a few specific runs where we wanted to do two circuits at once... but this is only possible because we have a 240V service, which is not very common... most tiny houses would be 120V, which is admittedly much simpler... but because I'm an electrician, and we need lots of power for electric cooking, I went for the 240V. Running two circuits using a 3-wire cable is very common, but if it's connected incorrectly, it can be a truly dangerous fire hazard, so before working on it make sure you fully understand the use-cases and ask for a knowledgeable second set of eyes to look it over. Stay safe! :)
what gauge wire would you recommend for a 100 amp panel?
+LiveYourLife89 It's not so much a recommendation as it is a matter of making sure your wires and equipment are protected by a breaker that will not allow more current to flow than is safe. A panel rated for 100A means that it can handle up to 100A, but you could supply it with less if you wanted. We will probably end up with a 40A supply to our 125A panel because that's all the power we will need, and it would be cumbersome and expensive to use cable rated for a full 125A. If you wanted a full 100A to your panel, you would use a minimum of a #3-AWG copper (according to my 2012 Canadian code book)... when I took my exam, they had recently introduced rules to account for the fact that breakers were rated for 75-degrees and not 90 like most cabling... so you would have to use the 75-deg value for ampacities as to not overheat the breakers... plus you never want to draw more than 80% of the breakers rating on a given circuit under normal conditions... but you still have to use cabling that can handle the full rating... simple right!? ;D
may i ask do you ever get home done all i see is how to do your elictric or how to do pluming
+James Veach We've shown everything up to this point so far, and will eventually show everything to completion. We're still working on it ;)
Did you connect the neutral and ground or "earth" buses together in your mini panel or did you leave them separate? The joining would be done in the main panel correct? So this would not be necessary in the "sub panel". Is this also true for a 50amp RV connection say at a temp pole or an RV park? Would leaving the grounding and neutral buses separate be safe for generator use?
Generally, the neutral should only be connected to ground/earth at one spot in the entire system, but there are exceptions in specific situations (electrical code books will specify).
It's my understanding that you WOULD want it interconnected when generating your own power, because there would be no bond-return-path otherwise... but I haven't worked on a system like that yet... we hope to get some of our own generated power to the tiny house one day.
We actually have an entire video that talks all about this subject here: th-cam.com/video/YfmqaUdYdzg/w-d-xo.html
Subscribed. :)
+M.R. Hawks Thanks :D
Ground bond bus screws can have more than one wire but neutral screws are allowed only one wire per
+Bike Man Dan Hm, I admit I'm a bit rusty on code memorization, so I tried to find a rule that explains either of these cases (doubling bonding or neutrals) and can't find it... are you aware of a specific rule? What section is it in?
I would generally only double a neutral if I'm completely out of space and the two conductors are the same gauge. There's nothing about the physical electrical connection that I can think of that would be hazardous in doing this.
+Tiny Nest Its not allowed by the NEC (and Id assume by CEC as well). NEC 408.41
+Bike Man Dan Hm CEC has a different rule numbering system... what's the section/sub-section titles?
yes back on now
+Edward Wilcox :)
Mini's or tandems are not my first choice for breakers. I like to size the panel for full size breakers with room for extra circuits. I am sure you have your reasons. Nice work!
R u union?
+The Contractor Dude They're needed for this brand when doing two circuits on a 3-wire cable... plus we had a lot of circuits :P
What no Ben in this video. His agent will want to know why. Careful he is part of the doggie actors guild of America. Those doggies have big union that seems to get bigger daily. :-) Thanks for sharing.
He was probably busy creepin around outside :D
lol
jake have you ever worked in corvalis or eugene oregon ? as an electrician ?
+grizz270 Never worked in the US.
so strange to see that wiring setup in the uk the sparkies use a total different system we don't have the earth cable going into our fuse boxes here each socket has its own earth neutral connections just the live wires are fed into the fuse box
Hm, well you guys used ungrounded 240V for everything right? Like... there is no grounded neutral involved...
no there is none of that here
Hi just wondering why the panel does not have a main breaker, or does it?
+1deartman Have a look through the comments for my other answers to this questions, but basically the only reason to have one here is to allow for one-touch shutoff of the house, which would be very rarely useful... so we saved a few bucks and some panel-space by skipping it.
Great video...its the best on TH-cam I've seen thus far? I have a question, I get placing of the grounds on the left and the neutrals on the right and the hot wires seems to go in the breakers, but what about the output wire at the bottom right in the panel that goes to the rest of the house? Is it joined with the hot wires in the breakers?
+Calvert Edwards Thanks :)... I'm not entirely sure what you're asking... The cable in the bottom right is just another branch-circuit, feeding some plugs, exactly like every cable that enters the top of the panel. The cable on the bottom left is the feeder for house (power input). To see more detail about that cable you can watch this video: th-cam.com/video/WH_aV6MiHxc/w-d-xo.html
Technically (according to US code at least) you should have a main breaker on that sub panel...since it is a separate structure, you need to me able to kill the whole service in 6 throws of your hand or less
Ah interesting... I'm actually not sure what the equivalent Canadian code is on this specific topic... but I can karate-chop the entire service in two chops ;D
It might still be possible to rearrange some of the breakers and insert a main in the future, if I needed to.
So... you gonna come to Maine to do mine next? Lmao!
+M.R. Hawks ;D
Hey Jake and Kiva! I have really been appreciating your videos they have been helping me a lot. You guys do a good work especially in the way you keep everything ORGANIZED so kudos. I have a question about service wires (I am building a tiny house too!). If I ran two 15 amp cables from a house I am parked behind, can I "combine" these cables to achieve higher amperage or voltage feeding the tiny house breaker panel? If so how much amperage at what voltage would I get? 30 amps at 240 volts? (I'm in the USA.) Second, what's the easiest way to wire these two, three-conductor cables to the tiny house breaker box? (I assume they must be three conductor because they will be plugged into regular 15 amp receptacles in our landlord's house.) Thank you so much in advance.
Thanks for watching :)
I would encourage you to abandon the idea of combining cables. It is physically possible, but would almost definitely violate codes/regulations, and could easily lead to a dangerous situation.
The voltage depends on if you've connected to one or two (both) of the legs available, and the amperage depends on the diameter of the wire (the wires inside the cable). So you can see that we used a cable that is big enough to feed a range (oven) and has a 4th conductor in it, which allows us to bring in the second leg of the system (providing a 240V supply). Many tiny houses only bring in one leg because the total electrical demand is very low. You will need to carefully tally up all of your electrical equipment's power requirements and size your cabling accordingly. Be safe!
Thanks for getting back to me. So you guys set up your own 240v circuit at the subpanel you draw from? (As opposed to plugging in to two separate 120v circuits.)
Yes we ran a single 240V circuit that was big enough to handle the entire house.
I see that you have two hot wires coming from the inlet to the two 125v busses. If I'm using a 30 Amp RV inlet, (which has only one hot wire) how can I accomplish this?
Short answer: you can't... there is no way to create another leg if you only have one to work with. Many tiny houses are wired entirely for 120V. We chose to go for 240V because it doubles the capacity of system, and because we knew that we would always be in a spot where we could hook up to a 240V source.
Thanks for the response. Very helpful.
Do you know if it's dangerous to create jumper between hot busses, which would essentially create a single 120V bus? I have space for only six breakers in my 100A box (three breaker slots per hot bus), so if I didn't do something like that, I would be limited to three breakers. I suppose I could use single pole tandem breakers, but for my Square D panel, they don't seem to make them in CAFCI, which is what I'm determined to use.
I guess my question, specifically, is this: How do I wire a 240v breaker for 120v, while being able to use all of the available space on the two hot busses?
Thanks again.
It could be dangerous... I would definitely not modify the bus in any way (like drilling into it or screwing down a wire directly to it). It might be possible to jumper using breakers, meaning you put a breaker on each bus and then connect them to each other with a wire... so you're essentially turning the second bus into a sub-panel. You'd need to size the breakers and wire correctly. Whatever you do, be SUPER careful and get a second opinion on it... if you make a mistake, it can mean a fiery death, so take it seriously!
I haven't hooked up the system yet, but I simply pigtailed a piece of 10 ga wire into the first bus, and used that wire to connect to the second. There is absolutely no modification of the breaker box.
Just be sure you are protecting that wiring with a properly sized breaker, otherwise it can overheat and cause a fire. #10 wire can't handle any more than 30A, so from what you've described, your entire system can never safely be fed by a breaker rated higher than 30. Also, you cannot safely load a breaker more than 80%, so (80% x 30A x 120V) = 2880W grand total for your system.
Hey Scott, what size panel did you opt for? 30A or 60A?
Are you meaning to reply to someone's comment? This came through as a fresh comment so Scott wouldn't see it...
Nope! It's a brand new comment! What size electrical panel was used in this tiny house?
Ah just wondering about the name Scott lol
Our panel is rated for 125A but it's being fed by a 50A cable, and protected by a 40A breaker... so the system is currently 40A at 240V which provides a maximum possible of around 7500W continuous (but we won't be using anywhere near that much... just need the headroom for short-term loads like electric cooking).
Okay cool, thanks! Just out of curiosity, why didn't you opt for a 50A RV power inlet on the tiny house instead of the direct wire (from garage to tiny house)?
The short answer is cost vs know-how... Those RV components can be expensive and since I know how to manually wire things up, we chose to do it that way, at least to start with. We wanted to get it powered on and were at a tight spot in our budget. We might add cord-ends in the future.
Y los dobles Breyker yo no los recomiendo por ke no son seguros . No puedes poner dos dedicados por ke se va botar pero si puedes poner algo liviano como luces o ploges pero ke no sean de alto consumo
Hi Jake.
Very neat. How much do you charge per hour?
;o)
+SarkyBugger Ha, depends!
Tiny Nest That's a businessman's answer!
All the best mate.
Esa caja está muy chikita. No cres
That panel is about as complex as the one for my entire building. They didn't label anything.
+MakeMeThinkAgain ;)
is this a 50 amp box down to 30 amp?
+Greg d Greg d The panel is rate up to 125A, the cable that supplies it could do 55A (in theory), and we will probably run a 30A cable from the house... so the entire system is only as capable as the lowest-rated part. Also, average breakers are only rated for 80% of their amperage, so a 30A breaker should not be used to supply more than 24A under normal conditions.
+Tiny Nest can I ask why u choose to go with a 30 amp instead of a 50 amp? Keeping u above your loads easily?
We actually went with a 40A breaker to give ourselves a little headroom. It's still probably more than we need, and we will be monitoring our power use and making a video about it in the future :)
Tight.
+John Norris toight
Tiny Nest Yes, top notch.
+Tiny Nest - If you're going to reference Mike Myers then we are going to need a "if it ain't Scottish it's crap!" quote in an upcoming video.
+John Norris HEED! PANTS! NOW!
That's a huuuge noggin!
And don’t have a main breaker is important
just curious, are you by chance an electrician?
+Elpape Media because thats too good for an amateur
+Elpape Media As stated, I am in fact an electrician :)
That box is too small. For mi.
I know this is an old video, but im a but confused.. your 8 gauge service wire is rated for 50 amps, but you have a lot more amps if you add up all the breaker amp ratings.. what am i missing here? How are these correlated? Great vid, thanks!
It's an "evergreen" video... we hope lol ;D
Good question, it's very basic electrical... each branch circuit is protected such that the conductors will never be subjected to more current than they are rated for (and thus not overheat). 15A is the minimum standard, so even though the circuit is capable of delivering up to 12A (80%) it's unlikely that we would be plugging in enough to draw that, and the rest is unused headroom... so the breakers handle each individual run of cable, while the service cable represents the maximum total power that can be delivered at any moment in time. We purposely oversized the main feeder so that we can run almost everything in the house at once without it tripping the breaker (which is a situation that will probably never occur anyway).
Where do I put the wire into the panel that hooks up the the RV plug so I can power the tiny house at a campground?
Not sure how to answer this exactly. There is only one input into a panel like this, so whatever cable is bringing power in will go to those input lugs.
Great thanks so much!