18:10 you can see Shine loading up all his drones into overlords to rescue them from the about-to-die 7 o'clock natural. He then flies those overlords back towards his main before forgetting about them, so Shine's supply is actually inflated by as much as 16 due to having a ton of drones sitting inside overlords
Shine's GG timing seemed fine for a ladder game. He would probably have stayed if it were a tournament, but it seems like Airfou kills 3 o'clock and then goes and kills 6 o'clock without much issue.
If it was an SSL game, he would have gone a bit farther for sure. I don't think he was 100% dead but man that'd be a brutal climb back with low chance of winning. Totally the right call for a ladder game.
The final position was a salvageable position but Shine was definitely at a slight disadvantage. He had lower army supply and the army was sectioned off in different parts of the map, but still had lurkers at Air's third base with presumably nothing to defend against them walking into the main. He likely would have stayed and taken it if it was SSL, but on ladder it was sufficient enough practice to call gg at a point where he'd have preferred to be in an advantageous winning position already.
So happy to see (spoilers below) Airfou win! This game also really felt like a GREAT demonstrator of Protoss's "fewer, but stronger" race style. Some zealots, few dragoons, 2 archons, and 3-4 high templar are nothing to sneeze at. As for Shine leaving, I think he actually shoulda stayed. His bases were low, but he had like... 30? 40 seconds of mining left? I think if he plopped down a hatchery at an expo AS SOON as he hits 300 minerals and micros his best, he might've had a shot. Wouldn't be an easy win though.
If he canned the upgrades when protoss went on the rampage and invested that in the army supply, it might have had been enough but with no minerals in the bank, ~1500 in the available patches and new base at least 3 minutes away - nah, he made the right call.
It was gonna be really tough for him to win that after losing his 3 bases bottom left. His armies kept getting evaporated by storms..just shows that air is near pro level with those excellent psi storms..made the lings practically useless.
The leave was probably somewhat early. I guess it's fine for a ladder game, but would be early in a tournament game. The thing is that shine is still deriving income from 3 bases while toss on 1. So unless toss can secure top left, it is probably not done yet. But likely the gg was coming 2 minutes later anyway. So... I get it.
With the view that we have, yeah, I think Shine could stay a little longer - middle bottom base is mining heavily and the other bases can support small numbers of drones. I also think that Air's army is pretty small. Air has only top middle base mining. With Shine's viewpoint though I think it's totally a legitimate GG.
It would have been very difficult considering his position. He may have been able to stay in, but he would've had to play quite defensively and would continue to stay behind until he eventually lost.
Looked they both were struggling so hard to control this many units effectively on this map. Feels like with the way the middle is designed, your movement gets so disrupted on whichever route you try to take that you end up having to regroup way too when you reach a sizeable mass because it's near impossible to move units to the front of an engagement when your units are bodyblocking themselves
Now that I think about it... EVERYTHING zerg has does full damage to dragoons, shield or HP. Terran is like the only race with concussive damage, so if you're a large unit you take full damage from anything that's not a vulture, ghost, or firebat.
I do think the game was just about over/very heavily in Airfou's favor, but Shine could have stayed in it a bit longer. He wasn't so far behind that the position was completely unplayable at the end.
@@novitrix9671 Correction, my good Sir. They have 40 hit points and 40 shield points. Which is the same amount in total as the Vulture and Hydralisk. Bich.
Well fought. I feel like Protoss had to get lucky with few storms but it seems like the key was the first drop that was supposed to be killing blow but instead did nothing.
It really was a mistake from Shine. Could have killed that base with his first drop but was focused on fighting the protoss main army. I wouldn't say he was getting lucky with the storms he's nearly pro level with his timing and placements of them. Shine was dodging a lot of them and even running through them, his problem was the storms were too good and were melting too many lurkers and lings.
Spoilers While I do detest premature ggs, that army state on zerg looked abysmal. Yet there was plenty of workers on Z side and 1 safe 'plentiful' base of resources. I would've preferred Z stayed longer for a more definitive spanking, just because I like a good scrap and loath Z.
Spoiler blocker I think that Shine leaving was reasonable since it is just a ladder game, but that if there was some money on the line, then the leave was a bit premature.
Shine got too greedy after the two mildly successful drops at the bottom base of the Protoss. Too many many drones, not enough sunkens or lurkers at the bottom left main, which he should have spent the time to set up properly rather than doomdropping like 8 lurkers at a base that essentially had no mining and enough to not let it ravage the main right after.
i think if this were SSL, shine would grind for the ~50% chance to win knowing that he is more skilled than his opponent and preying (and praying) on his opponent's mistakes. during practice though, it is less desirable to put in that effort. he has already lost in the part that matters for practice and so the value of grinding through another hour for the W is not worth the time.
its so cursed seing players be able to build on structure on a badlands map, in old broodwar structure terrain is unbuildable, cant even place minerals on it.
Every Zerg building has so few hitpoints, that I'm actually shocked at how infrequently they're sniped. People usually don't make more than one, so it's guaranteed production disruption.
@@ozar_midrashim if you are doing reaver drops it's a no brainer and I've seen it done on defiler mounts, evo chambers, etc. It's a lot harder to pull that off later in the match though.
SC2 took 6 months to fix a bug on the cyclone, blizzard is over. Would love to see the community mod the game into their own thing like the red alert community created OpenRA.
@@bencelovasz534 Brood War is very much not balanced. Blizzard gave each race some absurdly powerful units and the community at the time called it balanced. Once people figured some even more absurd things, like Muta or Vulture micro, it became clear how the game really is "balanced".
@@ozar_midrashim We have had champions in every race. So their is a degree of balance in the game. Balance is achieved from the maps and how they are designed. If the game was played on a flat map with no features the games would be horribly unbalanced. Arty went in to this when he was explaining the neutral sunken in the base and how screwed Zerg would be without it. People often confuse balance with blandness. StarCraft 2 for example has no extremely powerful units and easier counters and is more bland because of it. Unfair situations make for fun viewing. Watching defilers, templars, and vultures making big clutch play is fun. watching siege tanks splatter a max Protoss or Mutalisks dismantling a Terran base is fun. True balance is bland and unexciting. Might as well just make everything a Mutalisk and smash against each other.
@@ozar_midrashim I get that the game isn't balanced, all I was saying is map makers should be getting support from Blizzard for such a masterpiece of a game
shine couldve stayed but he didnt have anything so yea. terrible map design here. matches are boring. the name kick back implies less action early-game, we all love early-game agression. the middle is clogged, its hard to move armies. small expansions make timing attacks impossible. I think to either make the 12 3 6 9 islands via assimilators, or make the expansions normal mineral, gas counts would rly help this map
![Dendi Pudge Beyond Godlike BOSS - Dota 2 Pro Gameplay [Watch & Learn]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yf4Bfoeqrfw/mqdefault.jpg)
![Dendi Pudge Beyond Godlike BOSS - Dota 2 Pro Gameplay [Watch & Learn]](/img/tr.png)
18:10 you can see Shine loading up all his drones into overlords to rescue them from the about-to-die 7 o'clock natural. He then flies those overlords back towards his main before forgetting about them, so Shine's supply is actually inflated by as much as 16 due to having a ton of drones sitting inside overlords
Nothing worse than a Zerg with too many drones.
Very good catch
Made no difference. 1.5 minutes from loading drones into overloads there was a "gg". Half of that time, overloards where flying toward the main.
@@maciekkrol5832 his point is that Shines actual army supply is very low, like 50
@@stevemattero1471 You can see the number of workers at the top right anyway, whether or not they are loaded into overlords.
Stasis has been cast on me this morning; chills.
Attempt at Spoiler wall
Protoss wins
No chills
Congrats Air!!! First win ever on the ArtosisCasts channel! Love to see it!
Shine's GG timing seemed fine for a ladder game. He would probably have stayed if it were a tournament, but it seems like Airfou kills 3 o'clock and then goes and kills 6 o'clock without much issue.
Congratulations on his first win❤
If it was an SSL game, he would have gone a bit farther for sure. I don't think he was 100% dead but man that'd be a brutal climb back with low chance of winning. Totally the right call for a ladder game.
All this Zerg action is giving me chills…
I get chills when I see a new artosiscasts video
C H I L L S
H
I
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L
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Thanks for explaining the sunkens, I thought they were just for decoration!
Shine could’ve stayed in, but he was definitely pretty far behind
yea this is my feeling on it. I think he should maybe play it out a bit more but the chances of winning may be something like sub 10%.
You know, I really appreciate how when Arty casts it's all starcraft. Even with the slow early game, he always stays on point.
Dude that map looks so fun :O
The final position was a salvageable position but Shine was definitely at a slight disadvantage. He had lower army supply and the army was sectioned off in different parts of the map, but still had lurkers at Air's third base with presumably nothing to defend against them walking into the main.
He likely would have stayed and taken it if it was SSL, but on ladder it was sufficient enough practice to call gg at a point where he'd have preferred to be in an advantageous winning position already.
So happy to see (spoilers below)
Airfou win! This game also really felt like a GREAT demonstrator of Protoss's "fewer, but stronger" race style.
Some zealots, few dragoons, 2 archons, and 3-4 high templar are nothing to sneeze at.
As for Shine leaving, I think he actually shoulda stayed. His bases were low, but he had like... 30? 40 seconds of mining left? I think if he plopped down a hatchery at an expo AS SOON as he hits 300 minerals and micros his best, he might've had a shot. Wouldn't be an easy win though.
Shine should have stayed in the game. He probably thought that he had less workers and there were more of a protoss army to deal with.
If he canned the upgrades when protoss went on the rampage and invested that in the army supply, it might have had been enough but with no minerals in the bank, ~1500 in the available patches and new base at least 3 minutes away - nah, he made the right call.
It was gonna be really tough for him to win that after losing his 3 bases bottom left. His armies kept getting evaporated by storms..just shows that air is near pro level with those excellent psi storms..made the lings practically useless.
You gotta have bases for your workers to work at.
There was even an Artosis pylon!
Airfou is the heel in pro wrestling. there to make the hero look really damn good.
"he pounds me" - Artosis
Shine is so crazy that he got chills and just left the game because of the chillinguy
Shine feels like he plans and makes good moves, but is incredibly lacking in the killer instinct.
Really fun map. Seems like it makes some fast games. Thanks for the explanation on everything.
"New" players seem to doing pretty well, we might be witnessing interesting dynamic shift in Starcraft.
I like maps where one has to move out relatively quickly
The leave was probably somewhat early. I guess it's fine for a ladder game, but would be early in a tournament game.
The thing is that shine is still deriving income from 3 bases while toss on 1. So unless toss can secure top left, it is probably not done yet. But likely the gg was coming 2 minutes later anyway.
So... I get it.
Ain't no chill, but a GOOSEBUMPS!!!)))
With the view that we have, yeah, I think Shine could stay a little longer - middle bottom base is mining heavily and the other bases can support small numbers of drones. I also think that Air's army is pretty small.
Air has only top middle base mining.
With Shine's viewpoint though I think it's totally a legitimate GG.
It would have been very difficult considering his position. He may have been able to stay in, but he would've had to play quite defensively and would continue to stay behind until he eventually lost.
Looked they both were struggling so hard to control this many units effectively on this map. Feels like with the way the middle is designed, your movement gets so disrupted on whichever route you try to take that you end up having to regroup way too when you reach a sizeable mass because it's near impossible to move units to the front of an engagement when your units are bodyblocking themselves
Should've stayed. But only if he was able to collect his army. They were all over the place.
Artosis casting an 'Artosis Pylon' game🤣🤣🤣
Now that I think about it... EVERYTHING zerg has does full damage to dragoons, shield or HP. Terran is like the only race with concussive damage, so if you're a large unit you take full damage from anything that's not a vulture, ghost, or firebat.
If you make another sunk on the edge of the extended creep, does it expand it further?
I think it was a "ok" leave for ladder, but if it was a tournament game it would have been insane to leave already.
A very cool map for some interesting games
I think he should have stayed a little longer but he was definitely losing, I wonder if he could have been more proactive getting rid of observers
Wow, what a wreck for the zerg. He had so much in midgame!
In any case, I believe double lurker drop at 12 would have wrecked protoss lategame.
I do think the game was just about over/very heavily in Airfou's favor, but Shine could have stayed in it a bit longer. He wasn't so far behind that the position was completely unplayable at the end.
Stay don't give up!!
Yes, Shine should have stayed
VICTORY!
He should have stayed in. He was probably going to lose, but it was still pretty close.
Zerg is so HYPE!
Jaedong would have stayed in the game like this
Storm is a good ability
High Templar good unit.
@@ozar_midrashim HT have no auto attack and like 3 hp stfu.
@@novitrix9671 Correction, my good Sir.
They have 40 hit points and 40 shield points. Which is the same amount in total as the Vulture and Hydralisk.
Bich.
thanks for explaining the maps
You sir are a veritable dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
Well fought. I feel like Protoss had to get lucky with few storms but it seems like the key was the first drop that was supposed to be killing blow but instead did nothing.
It really was a mistake from Shine. Could have killed that base with his first drop but was focused on fighting the protoss main army. I wouldn't say he was getting lucky with the storms he's nearly pro level with his timing and placements of them. Shine was dodging a lot of them and even running through them, his problem was the storms were too good and were melting too many lurkers and lings.
DO MORE MAP REVIEWS!! super interesting
Another Terran supremacy!!!
Spoilers
While I do detest premature ggs, that army state on zerg looked abysmal. Yet there was plenty of workers on Z side and 1 safe 'plentiful' base of resources.
I would've preferred Z stayed longer for a more definitive spanking, just because I like a good scrap and loath Z.
"dudes on 1 gate and he's making a 3rd nexus" you wouldn't say that if it was pvt
never such a more stupid tactical decision of giving up THREE bases just to drop one base of protos.... shine deserved to lose so hard
CHILLS
ArtosisCasts I think you owe uploading an Artosis vs Air game on the other channel, to show how good he is
Spoiler blocker
I think that Shine leaving was reasonable since it is just a ladder game, but that if there was some money on the line, then the leave was a bit premature.
what a game!
If this was ASL he would have stayed.
9/10 game
That's one cool map.
Shine most likely woulda stayed in if it was during an official tourney
Literal Chills (TM) right now.
I think shine was dead. Substantially more army for protoss + bank.
Be careful of who you call a jobber in highschool.
Spoiler
Everyone loves to see an underdog get a win!
Shine got too greedy after the two mildly successful drops at the bottom base of the Protoss. Too many many drones, not enough sunkens or lurkers at the bottom left main, which he should have spent the time to set up properly rather than doomdropping like 8 lurkers at a base that essentially had no mining and enough to not let it ravage the main right after.
Really cool game!
it was a fine 🥬
Hey arty, when u explain map featured can u turn off fog of war to explain it better instead of relying on players vision? tks, great job btw
nope. brood war old. Can't turn off fog of war.
@@sebastiantru4702 that not true, i've seen others casters turn it off a lot of times
spoilers for both ASL group E and this video:
Wow, so now I've seen Shine lose three times today
Protoss vs Zerg ? On my flash stream cast ?
i think if this were SSL, shine would grind for the ~50% chance to win knowing that he is more skilled than his opponent and preying (and praying) on his opponent's mistakes. during practice though, it is less desirable to put in that effort. he has already lost in the part that matters for practice and so the value of grinding through another hour for the W is not worth the time.
Glad he dipped cause he had no play
Want to know sir arty's hair nourishment
If the question is if it was an early gg, it was early. If you like sports at all, early just giving up is so lame
its so cursed seing players be able to build on structure on a badlands map, in old broodwar structure terrain is unbuildable, cant even place minerals on it.
So anywho I of course cancelled my twitch sub. However I have decided to support you on patreon
nice
Shine could have won.
woooow...
Nice diff players
totes GG, esp if the Protoss player is a hard worker.. but i think toss woulda had it either way, at the point of GG..
GG
should have stayed
what was the moan at 3:30?
Heck off, spoilers
weak leave, BM
PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN TO ---SNIPE--- DEFILER MOUND
Every Zerg building has so few hitpoints, that I'm actually shocked at how infrequently they're sniped.
People usually don't make more than one, so it's guaranteed production disruption.
@@ozar_midrashim if you are doing reaver drops it's a no brainer and I've seen it done on defiler mounts, evo chambers, etc. It's a lot harder to pull that off later in the match though.
Comments
Nice to be back here. I tried to watch your stream but it made me cringe
.
I love this game but saying that map makers figuring out some hack instead of having Blizzard give native support is a bit ironic
SC2 took 6 months to fix a bug on the cyclone, blizzard is over. Would love to see the community mod the game into their own thing like the red alert community created OpenRA.
@@bencelovasz534 Brood War is very much not balanced. Blizzard gave each race some absurdly powerful units and the community at the time called it balanced. Once people figured some even more absurd things, like Muta or Vulture micro, it became clear how the game really is "balanced".
@@ozar_midrashim We have had champions in every race. So their is a degree of balance in the game. Balance is achieved from the maps and how they are designed. If the game was played on a flat map with no features the games would be horribly unbalanced. Arty went in to this when he was explaining the neutral sunken in the base and how screwed Zerg would be without it. People often confuse balance with blandness. StarCraft 2 for example has no extremely powerful units and easier counters and is more bland because of it. Unfair situations make for fun viewing. Watching defilers, templars, and vultures making big clutch play is fun. watching siege tanks splatter a max Protoss or Mutalisks dismantling a Terran base is fun. True balance is bland and unexciting. Might as well just make everything a Mutalisk and smash against each other.
@@ozar_midrashim I get that the game isn't balanced, all I was saying is map makers should be getting support from Blizzard for such a masterpiece of a game
102vs110 supply in the end, 3/3 lings plage, much better economy for zerg. wtf, zerg was ahead in the end.
Should have stayed in the game so we are a bit longer entertained....
shine couldve stayed but he didnt have anything so yea. terrible map design here. matches are boring. the name kick back implies less action early-game, we all love early-game agression. the middle is clogged, its hard to move armies. small expansions make timing attacks impossible. I think to either make the 12 3 6 9 islands via assimilators, or make the expansions normal mineral, gas counts would rly help this map
First 🎉
1st!
6th🎉🎉
Shinne, what a disapointment.