Pentax 17 VS. Disposable
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- I was given the opportunity to try out the new Pentax 17, and decided that it'd be quite interesting to see how it holds up against a disposable film camera. Some of the results ended up being quite surprising!
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"hi there, will here. annnd todaaaaay..." = instant serotonin
Ahah always such fun to say it too! Cheers Evan!
Why did my brain have the same chemical reaction haha
From my perspective as a serious amateur, I really love the controls on the 17. I feel like, for the kind of camera it is, it hits the sweet spot for manual and automatic controls. Its hands-on enough that you feel involved and present in shooting; something like a standard autofocus compact from eras past (Canon Sureshot Joy, or such) does everything in a way that you start to feel disconnected from the camera. However, the 17 is also automatic enough to feel very casual; between the zone focus and relatively wide depth of field, the extra shots from half-frame, and a trustworthy exposure system there isn’t too much to worry about. It feels like a perfect camera for when I don’t want to be precise with 120 film, but just want to shoot casually on an afternoon walk.
I guess that it has a similar space for a lot of newer photographers, too. While maybe autofocus could have helped if it was an option, the fact that you get to make decisions probably would feel a lot nicer than a full auto camera, but the camera makes those choices easy enough that you’re probably not ruining film.
Whether or not it’s a good buy… eh. It’s not cheap, but you know it’s going to work (or can be fixed), and sourcing used cameras in working condition and getting CLAs can add up in price, too. The best deals on vintage gear are to be found through patience, waiting for one to show up, but that’s really only possible for someone who doesn’t need a camera immediately. I’m sure anyone who’s been buying used cameras has gotten a bargain, but was it at the very moment we first wanted a film camera?
bro I thought my youtube was tripping, like Willy dropped? Lets go!!!!!
Ahah once I get past this road trip viddy edit there will be maaany more drops!
Very cool shootout Will! Thanks for sharing and comparing. I’ve been quite curious about the 17. I don’t think it’s for me, but it’s still cool to see it being made. As always-great to see you, and Cheers 🍻!
Cheers Justin! Glad you enjoyed as always! Hope you and yours are doing well!
I always assumed the target market was digital shooters that want to try film, but are nervous about figuring out how to test old cameras to be sure they are functional before putting a roll through.
Half frame can be so much fun - especially if you tell a story with two images in one frame. Very cool for prints!
But the price of the Pentax 17 is not so funny ... then I rather stick to my good old Yashica Samurai :D
@@simonr1chter not such a funny price indeed! I actually am of plan to make a viddy on the samurai at some point, will be fun to play with haha, probably soon since I had fun with the half frame maneuver here! Hope you’re keeping well Simon!
I had never seen Will so furious before today.
Duuude I spent the whole day painstakingly measuring distances for the zone focus to make sure I nailed it and was so hyped to see how some bee photos etc turned out only for them to be nice compositions but blurry beyond use, I was not stoked with the focus override business ahah
@@willysheepskin im also surprise that the "comeback" is being made with a lens attached to the body...
@@willysheepskin
They should offer laser distance meter with the camera
I have an old Olympus PEN FT with 2 lenses, 38mm and 100mm. I was able to get it for $250USD. It is a great little shooter even though the meter is dead. Pentax when they did this said it was more in the way of an experiment. They haven't built a film camera in years and they said there were no longer any of the engineers that had worked on a film camera in the company. They said this was a proof of can we even do this than a technology demonstrator. If this was doable and enough people bought it they would bring out a full frame 35mm manual film camera and a hybrid auto focus, auto exposure camera too. So lets hope that this is successful enough and they learn enough to make them want to do the more traditional system camera.
I really hope it sells wonderfully and that they're true to their word then! A camera fully fleshed out with all the benefits modern technology can offer the format would be a dream! Thanks for sharing Bob! Hope you're keeping well!
Like the P17 and bought it. Happy I did as i like the half frame camara and the sharpness of the photos. The framing and focus take some getting used to but thats the fun of it id say. Thanks for the review
Looks like the pentax is much sharper than the disposable!😮
Would be a shame if not lol
A great and useful review and comparison for anyone considering acquiring the Pentax 17. Some lovely shots of familiar and beautiful places. I guess there is a reason why they are tourist attractions! Can't wait for the road trip! ❤
There's a reason why they're tourist attractions indeed! Glad you enjoyed the video!
If you read how exactly the Pentax 17 handles focus and exposure in auto mode... it's not much different than a Ektar H35N but at 10x the price.
I think the more apt comparison would be the Pentax 17 VS the Kodak H35N, since both are readily available half frame cameras. Obviously the H35N is waaaaayyyyy cheaper, but it would be a good one to compare it to.
That's actually a very good call, if I get the chance I reckon I'd do just that! Cheers!
I've seen a few other videos reviewing the Pentax 17. I appreciate your unique perspective on it, and your rationale for comparing it to a disposable. Makes a lot of sense.
I disagree a little where you say that people who previously were using disposable cameras would want the camera to be fully automatic. I think if such people are looking for an upgrade, they can have a lot of fun discovering the new possibilities that this thing offers. In that sense the camera has the potential to convert super basic (but interested) shooters into more conscious photographers.
You are correct that it's weird that the auto mode overrides the focus setting on the lens. Basically I think the Pentax 17 would have been better as a half automatic with either shutter or aperture priority, and full manual focus.
But even as it is, and if one learns to understand its quirks, it should be possible to coax some very satisfying shots from it. I want one, but I want other things too that cost money so it will have to wait.
The price is high but well made cameras have always been something one had to save up for (if you're not swimming in money).
Thanks for the insights Olavl! I agree that you can definitely get some cool stuff out of it if you treat it the right way, I had a further 5 minutes to the video where I ranted about ways one could improve its performance - exposure compensation being a big one because the meter tends to favor going somewhat under from what I could tell in these frames, but ended up cutting that bit cus it was a lot of talking haha!
Your perspective regarding figuring out it's intricacies being of benefit to new users is a good point too, I guess since I was trying to keep the stance of "I'm used to a disposable and it looked better" I ended up passing over including arguments such as yours, which is very fair and true.
If I had the opportunity to revisit it I reckon I'd make sure to set things up to get the nicest results possible, and would likely come away somewhat more satisfied with the experience. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!
@@willysheepskin And thanks to you for your reply. Perhaps this is the biggest achievement of Ricoh/Pentax (and their marketing effort): they got people from different places in the world talking about this weird new camera. It's certainly a very, let's say *opinionated* design. They took the risk of not just trying to conform to expectations and I respect that a lot.
I'm not sure if I missed it in the video, but how would you rate the quality of the lens? Is it worth wasting a roll of fine grain film on it?
IMO Pentax has better optic, where the corners still look sharp where the disposable might has a pleasing colour but the optic is at different quality level
Am i crazy that I prefer the disposable on most of these photos 🤨? Thanks for the comparison!
It really did do better than the 17 in a lot of scenarios hey!
I find both of these comments so interesting. I found myself preferring the P17 almost the whole time. I don't like it objectively, I wish it had manual focus or auto focus, and it's just sooo expensive. But the photos that came out, I really liked.
Yes i found the 17 slightly clinical and amost with a digital look Personally i like film images that have a bit of soul but if youre looking for sharpness then the 17 has it really like to see the 17 up against say an olympus EE3 or similar
Great review, appreciate your comments at the end. That focus thing makes zero sense.
Winter sunlight here in Cape Town is just too stunning. Rhodes Memorial is a great place for film photography too. Love Kalk Bay harbour. Bunch of my videos shot there. That disposable didn't fare too badly. I am on a bit on the fence about a 10k point-and-shoot... with range focus, tbh. Lekker video, bru. And I agree with your take on the Pentax in general.
It really is wonderful hey! Full day shooting light! Will have to visit Rhodes memorial for a video sometime, I'm sure there'd be some cool views from up there haha! It's a 14K point and shoot here actually I believe x_x. Glad you enjoyed it Danie, cheers for checking it out!
i miss you brother!! keen for some adventures when im back
I miss you too maaaan! Glad to see you killing it out there, looking forward greatly to your return though!
That focus issue is throwing a lot of us a curve ball😅
Ahaha I wasn't readyyyy!
Manuals are a bit difficult to read, but had you done so, you would have learned that Auto focuses from 1 metre to infinity and if you wanted to use the focus zones you should have set it to P mode.
I wish you had not treated it like a disposable because you missed trying slow speed shutter, fixed wide aperture (Bokeh mode), the two close up focus modes, Bulb mode, the remote shutter release, exposure compensation, pushing or pulling using the ISO dial, fill flash... All the great features the 17 has that are not available in a disposable.
I suggest you take it for another spin. Fill the frame with a portrait, make a photo of some friends on a beach at sunset, or in full sun when you need exposure compensation.
Pentax was clear that this camera was aimed at new film shooters, and for many of of them, Auto is a great place to start. But this camera offers so much more as that new film shooter grows and learns the art of photography.
I love mine. My Canon R5 hasn't been in my hands since I received the 17. It may not ever again.
Glad you're enjoying the camera, hope you continue to do so, I'm sure you will since you clearly aren't a new shooter and aren't going to be tripped up by the numerous contradictions I experienced treating it as such.
The entire purpose of this video was to treat it as if I weren't myself - someone who reads every manual for every camera I use.
If the camera is aimed at new shooters, most new shooters aren't going to read the manual.
Auto is a great place to start, and is likely where most new users will exist, but having it override manual focus would be a bit defeating if the new shooter decided to try use close focus to do something cool and got a blurry result. Not good for growing into the art of photography to have the camera fighting against you.
I looked at the manual/collection of papers after the fact since a thorough understanding of what I'm doing is normally the biggest part of using a camera for me, and they were quite poorly put together and hard to follow compared to any other camera manual I've read.
Great video! Really enjoyed utilization of 35mm frame for diptychs
and yeah, this camera makes no sense! I would prefer either fully automatic one with modern autofocus and light exposure capabilities, or just a fully manual one. It's just cumbersome the way this camera is now. And definitely not worth its price!
Glad to Someone shares my opinion haha! Glad you enjoyed the diptychs, they were good fun! Thanks for watching!
Yeah, the Pentax is basically a disposable that takes twice as many pictures. Lol
The lense is clearly better, but they're still half the resolution, so it basically evens out.
If they put out a new 120 camera, I might buy one, but I'll have to pass on 35mm.
Willy content makes me happy😌
Always a great honor to hear my friend!
WILLLYYYYY!!!!
PAIIIIIN! The legend of the firsts continues!
Why is there no note of which film you loaded in Pentax? The deep green privilege of colors suggests some Fujifilm, but I'm not sure. It would be more accurate to load the same Kodak film to see the difference.
It sounds like a committee got together and everyone had a chance to add a feature 😅. I think this is going to be a great gift for young budding film photographers whose parents / grandparents are looking to buy a gift and don't want to go for second hand. I really enjoyed seeing the touristy stuff. Comfort in familiarity.
That’s a great way to think about it! I reckon it makes loads of sense in that context! Glad you enjoyed the touristy stuff!
Some of that is intentional, but less a committee and more the Pentax history books. The winder is from the Pentax 110, the grip has the same texture as DA lenses, the font on the front borrows from the 6x7, the film rewind of… I think the ME.
Should think of the 17 more like a premium half frame, a fairer comparison would be the Diana F+ which also has a similar zone focusing settings/guide marks over a disposable.
Does the Diana F zone focus get overridden by a setting elsewhere on the camera is the question, cus if it doesn't it wins the comparison by default haha!
Truthfully the 1/2 Frame a backwards step. I used it ages ago. It can be quality but why! There are still many inepensive point and shoot Full frame cameras using film! Some have auto focus! Ricoh made super compact film cameras ! Sure you get extra frames,72 vs 36! processing a film is relative, printing all of it? But I like and still use my Pentax system!
To add.... The extra little clip on your BuyMeaCoffee actually makes the disposable look pretty good😅🙈🙈🤯. .. thanks for the treat ❤
Ahah it really does doesn’t it! The magic of overexposure I guess 🤣 glad you got to check it out! ✨
It almost looks like you used phoenix 200. The colors are so saturated and shadows are crushed. Must be the Pentax 17 metering and lens rendering.
Yeah the ole Portra 400 suffered a bit with the half frame and interesting meter decisions from the camera, I kind of like how it turned out in a couple of frames but mostly it struggled a bit just using it out of the box without compensating for exposure etc.
10:14 Calling out half the photos on r/Analog lol
Ahahah I should do a full video just dedicated to medium format pictures of those scenes to fully embrace the vibe! Not that there's really anything wrong with those scenes really, just not things I find exciting at the moment after what I went out and saw on the road!
Not the equipment's fault if you don't know how to use the equipment. Auto in this case is AUTO everything which makes perfect sense except you are confused about the nature of focus for the auto setting - study it up. It's meant to be a bit of a bridge camera and the half-frame thing is merely an attempt to save people money on film while also mimicking phone camera framing in the vertical. Vertical being almost always a lousy framing perspective but one which people are used to seeing and like many things, good is often trumped by conditioning.
It would have been nice to see more comparisons that allowed for more detailed examination of the quality of the negatives and I don't know if you mentioned or not if you used the same film in both cameras. As for forest exposures, it may have been nice to see the effects of using the exposure compensation dial and some commentary on your part as to when warnings were given by the camera and what they meant i.e. slow shutter et cetera. Also some flash use and or macro attempts with and without flash may have been nice to see. Would be nice to post higher resolution images somewhere too.
Nice effort on the video, I wish you and your channel continued success. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Best wishes! God bless!
Heyyy, IMO, avoid the FT - it burns viewfinder space on a meter that isn't worth using. I strongly favor the final version - the Pen FV as it has the best viewfinder. You can also adapt Olympus OM or Nikon AI/AIS glass to the Pen. I use an Olympus 28mm 2.8 and 28-48mm zoom😁
If you want fixed lens options, the Konica Eye 2, Canon Demi EE17, and Pen EES-2 are the top options I'd look at.
There are crazies like the Konica Autorex that swtiches between half and full frame, the wacky Yashica Samurai, and the Lomo LC half/square/FF too.
100% agree regarding the P17. I think it's just that it was a skunk works project and so it's half baked. I fully expect a V2 with major improvements.
Cheers!
Thanks for such rad advice Jeremy! I’ll definitely have a look at the FV as an option now! I’ve got a friend who has the adapter for it and I’d be keen to try something super weird with adapters haha, kind of feel like there might be a way to adapt my 500mm rb lens to it which would be hilaaariious I reckon!
Look forward to taking some time to sit down and look into all your marvellous suggestions though really appreciate it! Cheers!
Love that theyre still putting out new film cameras buhh the price of this one is bonkers i cant keep up😭
Indeed! Would make sense if it had autofocus since the new rollei is apparently going to, and the price won't be too different from what I can tell so hopefully it hits a bit different for me if I get the chance to try it out haha
Hi, Will there!
Ahah you are in fact correct my good sir!
A hardly matters now does it.
It`s both rock bottom, if anything i like the disposable colors better.
Both have blown out highlights, crushed blacks, grain and lack of detail.
The pentax is very dissapointing for the money.
#filmphotography
The Disposable kinda crushed it, that's a shame for Pentax haha
👍👏👏👏
🙌🙌🙌
I feel like that focus thing in Auto mode must be a bug, theres no way that was intentional, or at least I hope it wasnt intentional because that makes no sense at all
In auto mode it goes for f16 at that fixed focus distance so that the entire frame is safely in focus. Eliminates focus errors for beginners or for me who was looking at feet markings instead of meters for the first 1/3 roll of the film...
Yeah I was super bummed cus I spent the day very carefully testing different focus settings at different distances and it all ended up being for nothing with a bunch of blurry close ups haha
Trash in -pentax 17 out.
The several, internal contradictions between functions in the Pentax 17 are both confusing and distracting. When you burden the camera with a three element 25mm lens, then have most of the "modes" lock the aperture either wide open or at minimum opening, thereby insuring the worst optical performance of the lens, you cannot escape the conclusion that the camera is a hyped up fake, not seriously intended for use by any photographer concerned over results. So, it's for those who like to think they are "moving up" from a disposable, as suggested. And, it's for posers who want to rub shoulders in the film photography social community and need some jewelry as a badge of belonging. Half frame died in the mid-1970s, notwithstanding several cameras far superior to the Pentax 17, because technical advancement in auto-exposure and autofocus cameras appeared in small, full frame models which captured the "know nothing" user market. That market is as strong as ever, but it has shot pocket digital and cell phones for a quarter-century, and it's not moving back to half frame film.
Thanks for the insights and overview Randall! It is a confusing camera indeed, although I do hope it's successful in it's sales so that something better might come along brand new in the future haha!