This channel is slowly becoming one of my favorite ones for storage. No nonsense readily available good advice built on actual technical knowledge. Love it.
00:02 The video discusses the advantages and drawbacks of u.2 SSD drives. 02:22 U.2 and U.3 SSD drives offer the benefits of PCIe-based storage while also having the larger storage capacity of 2.5-inch SATA drives. 05:01 U.2 SSD drives offer larger capacity and enhanced performance 07:33 U.2 SSDs offer better dissipation and durability compared to M.2 SSDs 10:03 U.2 and U.3 SSD drives have become incredibly affordable. 12:37 U.2 and U.3 SSD drives are more expensive due to their enterprise-level appeal. 14:59 Buying u.2 SSDs in small quantities can be challenging and costly 17:11 U.2 SSD drives require powerful CPU and memory for optimal performance 19:19 Consider limitations in bandwidth and cost before buying U.2 SSD drives. 21:07 Announce Compares can help with choosing the right data storage
Best thing about U.2 is buying 15.36TB ssds used server pulls with 98% left for 1000. Less than a dollar tb and way more resilience ie 1dwpd especially in those 15.36tb so having 2 on an TB3 closure is a lot of high performing quiet storage something that would need a lot of devices to give the similar performance. I have 3 enclosures via tb4 cables to my mac studio. Fast video editing etc.. and performance never drops like with consumer drives that use a cache to provide the performance, then it drops like a rock when steady state,writing. U.2 commercial drives are designed to provide a consistent QOS for RAID use so no worries about drives dropping out of Raid because of Garbage collection etc..
thanks for sharing. would you be willing to share a link to the TB3/4 (en)closure you're using? edit: is it the OWC Mercury Pro U.2 Dual Enclosure? thanks
For me personally I purchase used U.2s off ebay. For my use case I typically get 50 percent more capacity per dollar in a drive that typically has the the same or 50 percent more capacity per drive compared to a m.2 as well 2x to 6x the theoretical expected endurance. I go used on the enterprise HDDs as well. Out of 20 or so various drives I’ve only had one early failure, which was luckily during the return period so no harm no foul. I use Mac’s so being in the position Apple puts you in to as far as storage goes I’ve only purchased 1 U.2 to TB enclosure. Now I just use cheap U.2 to M.2 adaptors with 4 pin power connectors on the board to work on the several enclosures I have, including 1x 2x and 4X m.2 bays. Only real rub is the number of drives compatible with MacOS is fairly limited. With the exception of needing a little more power U.2s are by design simple it’s mainstream manufactures gouging for a device that for the most part is the same as before with very little needed to change the interfaces. Basically it costs them next to nothing including the larger power supply required. Allegedly Apples “fusion” drives can be set up still via some time spent in terminal. Next project will be trying a u.2 to m.2/m.2 sata combo card or even daisy chain u.2 then multi port sata with HDDs via TB if I don’t find a particular card/adapters I like. Getting closer to hackintosh time. I stick with Apple because I like the abusive relationship.
Hey I really do appreciate your no fluff format of your video, and the great content. I'm not sure you would have any experience or thoughts on this .. I'm considering converting the m.2 to a u.2 adapter on my MB, (MB limited to SATA on m.2) the stated throughput is ridiculously good, then adding an NVME m.2 to a u2 enclosure. 1: Any thoughts on real world results from that setup ? 2: Am I better off using the x16 slot with an m.2 adapter. (Not sure that will work adding the extra throughput).
I'm trying to figure all that out. Looking at some motherboards that have extra x16 slots, some appear to either only have x4 electrically or go down to x8/x8 if you use 2 of them or disable an m.2 when you use them.... so not totally sure on all this.
It's a very helpful video - thank you! I wonder the following: if I don't mind lower speeds and a u.3 or u.2 drive is cheaper than say a WD Red 4TB SSD (for a NAS), will the u.2/u.3 drives work as expected except for the speed if given fewer lanes? Or will they refuse to work at all?
I'm pretty sure it should not work at all. I suggest that you buy enterprise SATA SSDs like KINGSTON DC600M which are not that expensive for 3,8 TB (400 €exc VAT in Europe). I already did that in Synology rackstation.
I put a 3.84TB Kioxia U.2 SSD into my gaming rig through a PCIe adapter that connects to the drive via a cable. The drive installed into one of my HDD trays just fine, but even though it was right in the path of my intake fans, under load the temps would quickly get way hotter than I was comfortable with. I solved it by modifying a WD IcePack (The big metal heatsink from their old WD Raptor days!) and a using a bunch of thermal pads to conduct heat from the U.2 drive to the larger heatsink. Now the temps are basically the same as my other SSDs under load. Anyway speeds are good, endurance is great, and temps are under control. Would I recommend anyone just run out and do this? Probably not, especially since I bought my drive off ebay and thus no warranty. Was a fun project to get working though.
Ran into something similar - I can only mount a U.2 drive to my PC via a PCIE x4 adapter, and it just so happens to sit under the GPU where there's very little airflow. Drive rapidly climbs to 70+C under load, and even idle it crawls upwards. Can't fit a giant heatsink since I have < 4mm clearance between the drive and the bottom of my case.
If you ever notice that with an SSD of any type when you see them in the same series of model numbers one with twice the capacity as the other has also twice the TBW rating. It is because there are most likely the same NAND chips used on both but the one with double the capacity has double the number of chips to distribute the writes across. Also if you can avoid QLC and any other NAND flash that has even more layers _per cell_ that is even better. Note that some chips may have 96 layers or more but that is not per cell or their write endurance would be very abysmal. We all want our storage to last don't we? The only reason people buy QLC is because of price and easy availability (just drive on out to the local electronics retailer and buy them) vs ordering better quality online and waiting potentially a week because free shipping is attractive and good things do come to those who wait so they say. I am convinced that enterprise grade would last longer. Think about it, for all of what they put the storage through they do not need them failing all the time. It would be too costly. We can pay now and get good ones or pay later by getting cheap ones that will fail sooner.
Could someone please help explain U.3 compatibility? I have a desktop PC that is PCI-e gen 5. I would like to get a KIOXIA gen 5 U.3 drive, there is a adapter cable that is U.2. Can I connect a U.3 drive to a U.2 adapter? Will that work?
I tried out a U.3 Kioxia CM6 drive (gen 4 drive) on my gaming PC. A startech U.3 PCIE adapter refused to work, BIOS doesn't detect the drive. Switched to a no-name brand U.2 PCIE adapter and it worked right away. However, the drive runs way too hot way too quickly (like just idling, it'll climb from 50 to 70C within 20 minutes, or a full load it'll do that under 5 minutes). Unfortunately the only available PCIE slot (gen4 x4) for it, is right underneath my giant GPU, so there's very little airflow hitting the drive. This is a serious consideration for anyone that wants to get one of these enterprise drives for their PC. After 70C it will thermal throttle and lose performance drastically. And even then the temps kept climbing above 78C and dropped from 6900 MB/s all the way down to 400 MB/s
@@laurentmarandet4850 I ended up jury-rigging together a mount adapter for a blower style fan that forces air across the drive. That fixed the problem completely. Still, a huge caveat to be aware of for anyone wanting to use enterprise SSDs on a PC.
I want IOPS. An enterprise U.2 ssd will do 7GB/s and 1.5M IOPS. If I get a U.2-to-PCIE adapter with x4 lanes, should I expect ~ 7GB/s and 1.5M IOPS on a high-end PC?
I tried out the Kioxia CM6 (gen 4 drive) on my gaming PC with a 13900K. It definitely pushes those numbers. However, the drive gets way too hot too quickly. Similar amount of airflow across the motherboard is enough to keep M.2 NVME drives (980 PROs) below 40C all the time. However this drive idles climbing from 50C all the way to 70C under 20 minutes. Under a full load it'll climb even quicker than that, make that 3 - 5 minutes. If you let it go past 70C, it'll drop from 6.9 GB/s all the way down to 400 MB/s, and even then the temps keep climbing - I saw it as high as 78C before I called it quits. It's the ONLY PCIE gen4 x4 slot available on my board unfortunately. And I'm not about to dump my GPU. This is in the Corsair 5000D Airflow, with all the fan slots populated...so as good as it gets in terms of airflow. without modifying the case.
@@shoobidyboop8634 the issue is, even after running the benchmark and the drive is at 70c it will stay at 70c and still gradually keep climbing even with no load on it.
Thank you! It was very instructive. I see that U.3 nvme SSD are coming out. And it order to get their performance they have to go into a PCIE slot and need Xeon processor (with 80 | 112 pcie lanes or AMD threadripper with 128) and their corresponding motherboard in order to benefit from he performance of these devices. I wonder when we are going to see pcie gen5 adapter cards to either m.2 nvme or u.3 ssd devices.
Hi! Do you contact me or Eddi through the free advice service or the forum? I do say alot on here that those are the ways to message us for help/advice? It always is to keep making content AND answer people in a first come, first serve fashion. Cheers for watching
*removes trousers to reveal 2nd pair of under-trousers, the protect the later of 3rd under-under-trousers that every British Man wears* *Sips tea aggressively*
Wow, thanks for taking some of the mystery out of U.2🔥 I just want speed, for gaming. Now I know to check how many lanes are available, on the motherboard, for U.2.
TLDR: Enterprise gear it complicated, expensive and power hungry. Just like SCSI and SAS. Its going to take another 5-10 years before U.2/3 will be dumbed down/standardised enough for normal people. Im from the IT generation where we individually tested each drive. Then short stroked the good ones for arrays. So have had to deal with these transitions a few times. Documentation so dry, the Sahara is jealous. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive_performance_characteristics
This channel is slowly becoming one of my favorite ones for storage. No nonsense readily available good advice built on actual technical knowledge. Love it.
00:02 The video discusses the advantages and drawbacks of u.2 SSD drives.
02:22 U.2 and U.3 SSD drives offer the benefits of PCIe-based storage while also having the larger storage capacity of 2.5-inch SATA drives.
05:01 U.2 SSD drives offer larger capacity and enhanced performance
07:33 U.2 SSDs offer better dissipation and durability compared to M.2 SSDs
10:03 U.2 and U.3 SSD drives have become incredibly affordable.
12:37 U.2 and U.3 SSD drives are more expensive due to their enterprise-level appeal.
14:59 Buying u.2 SSDs in small quantities can be challenging and costly
17:11 U.2 SSD drives require powerful CPU and memory for optimal performance
19:19 Consider limitations in bandwidth and cost before buying U.2 SSD drives.
21:07 Announce Compares can help with choosing the right data storage
Put it in the video description and youtube will chapter the video.
@@meanmarine24 He's not the admin.
After a drive has been out a few years I tend to find them CHEAPER per GB than the consumer drives.
i have noticed that too. Why is that though?
@@samsahimiits used by server 24/7 for 5 years. Thats why its cheaper
Best thing about U.2 is buying 15.36TB ssds used server pulls with 98% left for 1000. Less than a dollar tb and way more resilience ie 1dwpd especially in those 15.36tb so having 2 on an TB3 closure is a lot of high performing quiet storage something that would need a lot of devices to give the similar performance. I have 3 enclosures via tb4 cables to my mac studio. Fast video editing etc.. and performance never drops like with consumer drives that use a cache to provide the performance, then it drops like a rock when steady state,writing.
U.2 commercial drives are designed to provide a consistent QOS for RAID use so no worries about drives dropping out of Raid because of Garbage collection etc..
thanks for sharing. would you be willing to share a link to the TB3/4 (en)closure you're using? edit: is it the OWC Mercury Pro U.2 Dual Enclosure? thanks
@@redone823 yes works great you can stick two in and they show up two drives.
how to test wear level? i got some intel u.2s that are reporting 0.2 years remaining on solidigm software
Can you please provide a link to the PCIe NVMe to U.2 SSD drive adapter you mentioned in your discussion of #4 about advantages of U.2 in general.
For me personally I purchase used U.2s off ebay. For my use case I typically get 50 percent more capacity per dollar in a drive that typically has the the same or 50 percent more capacity per drive compared to a m.2 as well 2x to 6x the theoretical expected endurance. I go used on the enterprise HDDs as well. Out of 20 or so various drives I’ve only had one early failure, which was luckily during the return period so no harm no foul. I use Mac’s so being in the position Apple puts you in to as far as storage goes I’ve only purchased 1 U.2 to TB enclosure. Now I just use cheap U.2 to M.2 adaptors with 4 pin power connectors on the board to work on the several enclosures I have, including 1x 2x and 4X m.2 bays. Only real rub is the number of drives compatible with MacOS is fairly limited. With the exception of needing a little more power U.2s are by design simple it’s mainstream manufactures gouging for a device that for the most part is the same as before with very little needed to change the interfaces. Basically it costs them next to nothing including the larger power supply required. Allegedly Apples “fusion” drives can be set up still via some time spent in terminal. Next project will be trying a u.2 to m.2/m.2 sata combo card or even daisy chain u.2 then multi port sata with HDDs via TB if I don’t find a particular card/adapters I like. Getting closer to hackintosh time. I stick with Apple because I like the abusive relationship.
I saw your explanation at @4:52 but I still wonder if a U.2 drive will work in a regular SAS slot I'm using for mechanical SAS drives.
I don't think U.2 would work but U.3 should.
Ty! My board has a U.2 port. Can I just order a U.2 cable to connect to a non U.2 PCIe nmve ssd? I just purchased a cable that suppose to do that.
Thank you for explaining the topic in a clear manner. It's been super useful 👍
Hey I really do appreciate your no fluff format of your video, and the great content.
I'm not sure you would have any experience or thoughts on this .. I'm considering converting the m.2 to a u.2 adapter on my MB, (MB limited to SATA on m.2) the stated throughput is ridiculously good, then adding an NVME m.2 to a u2 enclosure. 1: Any thoughts on real world results from that setup ? 2: Am I better off using the x16 slot with an m.2 adapter. (Not sure that will work adding the extra throughput).
I'm trying to figure all that out. Looking at some motherboards that have extra x16 slots, some appear to either only have x4 electrically or go down to x8/x8 if you use 2 of them or disable an m.2 when you use them.... so not totally sure on all this.
It's a very helpful video - thank you! I wonder the following: if I don't mind lower speeds and a u.3 or u.2 drive is cheaper than say a WD Red 4TB SSD (for a NAS), will the u.2/u.3 drives work as expected except for the speed if given fewer lanes? Or will they refuse to work at all?
I'm pretty sure it should not work at all. I suggest that you buy enterprise SATA SSDs like KINGSTON DC600M which are not that expensive for 3,8 TB (400 €exc VAT in Europe). I already did that in Synology rackstation.
how to test wear level? i got some intel u.2s that are reporting 0.2 years remaining on solidigm software
I put a 3.84TB Kioxia U.2 SSD into my gaming rig through a PCIe adapter that connects to the drive via a cable. The drive installed into one of my HDD trays just fine, but even though it was right in the path of my intake fans, under load the temps would quickly get way hotter than I was comfortable with. I solved it by modifying a WD IcePack (The big metal heatsink from their old WD Raptor days!) and a using a bunch of thermal pads to conduct heat from the U.2 drive to the larger heatsink. Now the temps are basically the same as my other SSDs under load. Anyway speeds are good, endurance is great, and temps are under control. Would I recommend anyone just run out and do this? Probably not, especially since I bought my drive off ebay and thus no warranty. Was a fun project to get working though.
Ran into something similar - I can only mount a U.2 drive to my PC via a PCIE x4 adapter, and it just so happens to sit under the GPU where there's very little airflow. Drive rapidly climbs to 70+C under load, and even idle it crawls upwards.
Can't fit a giant heatsink since I have < 4mm clearance between the drive and the bottom of my case.
Since they are designed for servers and datacenters with cold corridors, these drives are not the best candidates for gaming.
If you ever notice that with an SSD of any type when you see them in the same series of model numbers one with twice the capacity as the other has also twice the TBW rating. It is because there are most likely the same NAND chips used on both but the one with double the capacity has double the number of chips to distribute the writes across. Also if you can avoid QLC and any other NAND flash that has even more layers _per cell_ that is even better. Note that some chips may have 96 layers or more but that is not per cell or their write endurance would be very abysmal. We all want our storage to last don't we? The only reason people buy QLC is because of price and easy availability (just drive on out to the local electronics retailer and buy them) vs ordering better quality online and waiting potentially a week because free shipping is attractive and good things do come to those who wait so they say. I am convinced that enterprise grade would last longer. Think about it, for all of what they put the storage through they do not need them failing all the time. It would be too costly. We can pay now and get good ones or pay later by getting cheap ones that will fail sooner.
Hello can I use u.2 ssds in
qnap Ts 464 .?
Thanks 😊
Great video!
I've never heard of U.3 prior to seeing this video.
Could someone please help explain U.3 compatibility?
I have a desktop PC that is PCI-e gen 5.
I would like to get a KIOXIA gen 5 U.3 drive, there is a adapter cable that is U.2.
Can I connect a U.3 drive to a U.2 adapter? Will that work?
I tried out a U.3 Kioxia CM6 drive (gen 4 drive) on my gaming PC. A startech U.3 PCIE adapter refused to work, BIOS doesn't detect the drive. Switched to a no-name brand U.2 PCIE adapter and it worked right away. However, the drive runs way too hot way too quickly (like just idling, it'll climb from 50 to 70C within 20 minutes, or a full load it'll do that under 5 minutes). Unfortunately the only available PCIE slot (gen4 x4) for it, is right underneath my giant GPU, so there's very little airflow hitting the drive. This is a serious consideration for anyone that wants to get one of these enterprise drives for their PC. After 70C it will thermal throttle and lose performance drastically. And even then the temps kept climbing above 78C and dropped from 6900 MB/s all the way down to 400 MB/s
@@rayw8252 Gamers PCs have nice watercooling for CPU, unfortunately there is nothing efficient right now for the drives...
@@laurentmarandet4850 I ended up jury-rigging together a mount adapter for a blower style fan that forces air across the drive. That fixed the problem completely. Still, a huge caveat to be aware of for anyone wanting to use enterprise SSDs on a PC.
@@rayw8252I am drooling at p5800x do you think its heatsink is enough for gaming PC?
I want IOPS. An enterprise U.2 ssd will do 7GB/s and 1.5M IOPS. If I get a U.2-to-PCIE adapter with x4 lanes, should I expect ~ 7GB/s and 1.5M IOPS on a high-end PC?
Just benched my 1-year-old u.3 ssd (old AMD AM4 system) and Yes - 7000+ seq. reads and writes and 1.5M IOPs in 4K reads.
I tried out the Kioxia CM6 (gen 4 drive) on my gaming PC with a 13900K. It definitely pushes those numbers. However, the drive gets way too hot too quickly. Similar amount of airflow across the motherboard is enough to keep M.2 NVME drives (980 PROs) below 40C all the time. However this drive idles climbing from 50C all the way to 70C under 20 minutes. Under a full load it'll climb even quicker than that, make that 3 - 5 minutes. If you let it go past 70C, it'll drop from 6.9 GB/s all the way down to 400 MB/s, and even then the temps keep climbing - I saw it as high as 78C before I called it quits.
It's the ONLY PCIE gen4 x4 slot available on my board unfortunately. And I'm not about to dump my GPU.
This is in the Corsair 5000D Airflow, with all the fan slots populated...so as good as it gets in terms of airflow. without modifying the case.
@@rayw8252 What are you running that pushes that to full load for several minutes, apart from a benchmark?
@@shoobidyboop8634 the issue is, even after running the benchmark and the drive is at 70c it will stay at 70c and still gradually keep climbing even with no load on it.
And the whole point of the enterprise drive is that it can handle SUSTAINED loads that consumer drives can't
I just want to clarify this. So what you're saying is that a nvme drive is smaller than a 2.5" form factor drive.
Thank you! It was very instructive. I see that U.3 nvme SSD are coming out. And it order to get their performance they have to go into a PCIE slot and need Xeon processor (with 80 | 112 pcie lanes or AMD threadripper with 128) and their corresponding motherboard in order to benefit from he performance of these devices.
I wonder when we are going to see pcie gen5 adapter cards to either m.2 nvme or u.3 ssd devices.
We could really use aAS6704T review. This is a possible alternative to the qnap 453e
Great video! Thanks for the explanation
What about u.3?
U.3 is basically NVMe+SATA+SAS with the same connector as U.2.
Thanks for sharing!
Why don't you reply to emails?
Hi! Do you contact me or Eddi through the free advice service or the forum? I do say alot on here that those are the ways to message us for help/advice? It always is to keep making content AND answer people in a first come, first serve fashion. Cheers for watching
Solidigm just made a 66TB, yeah TB u.2 drive...😮 and its amazigly fast and it cost only 5500usd
Yes, I was considering to buy one but I think that it is a QLC which is terribly slow and not so reliable. Go to TLC to be safe.
finally someone speaking proper english and not some india dialect from new york or chicago
Lol what😂
u.2 or u.3 floppy format.
40 TB floppy with a floppy drive
You are wearing nothing from the waist down. I am sat here wondering if you are as stiff as a brush?
*removes trousers to reveal 2nd pair of under-trousers, the protect the later of 3rd under-under-trousers that every British Man wears*
*Sips tea aggressively*
And the most British smile
Wow, thanks for taking some of the mystery out of U.2🔥
I just want speed, for gaming. Now I know to check how many lanes are available, on the motherboard, for U.2.
TLDR: Enterprise gear it complicated, expensive and power hungry.
Just like SCSI and SAS. Its going to take another 5-10 years before U.2/3 will be dumbed down/standardised enough for normal people. Im from the IT generation where we individually tested each drive. Then short stroked the good ones for arrays. So have had to deal with these transitions a few times. Documentation so dry, the Sahara is jealous. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive_performance_characteristics