Does Better Sim Racing Hardware Make You a Better Driver? Low Budget vs. Pro Level Setup
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ค. 2024
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"LOW BUDGET?!"
Okay, since it has come up so much: Why am I calling that 640€ setup "low budget"?
It's true that it's more of a mid range wheel, but there's a couple of points to be made here:
- I bought that wheel 5 years ago for 360€, and for some reason it has become more expensive since
- You can clamp it to a desk and save the 175€ for the wheel stand
- The wheel itself is in many ways very comparable to the T300, which costs around 300€ new
- You should be able to get a T500 used for around 250€. Throw in 20-25€ for a brake mod and you're all set, provided you have a low desk and couch.
Bottom line, you can get pretty much the same experience I got here at far below 640€.
You may disagree with this classification, that's ok. Just imagine it said "mid range belt-driven wheel setup" then :-)
Thank you guys for the positive response to this vid despite the debatable title!
I have t500 rs and this is not low budget
I was laughing at the low budget set up, because it's almost twice the cost of mine. I'm using the Thrustmaster TMX (lower cost than T500) clamped to a wooden TV Tray, T3PA with the same brake mod, and using an old wooden rocking chair. It was cool to see that the lower cost set-up can be somewhat close to competitive.
@del635 I might get access to an HTC Vive for a weekend. Will think about it.
The real question is what size is your TV
I use a Logitech driving force gt and I'm really good in dirty rally with it so yes to an extent it does but it's all about skill
We have different idea of what is low budget
😂
In my opinion Low Budget should be the G29
Sany MockingBird
*Snort* I struggle to afford a T80
@@sanybalkanaciairsoft3253 g920 for xbox one
t300
I'm calling it. It was the racing gloves that gave you 4/10th perf increase
You probably don't see the rest because he wears a helmet
Err, no, actually it's the socks
Two Three Four racing in anything other than socks just feels wrong.
I wear skate shoes because i put griptape on my t3pa...with fanatec loadcell i mostly use socks but then again heel and toe works better with shoes on
Griptape is an interesting choice
Pleased that maybe I don’t need to spend lots to significantly improve. Displeased that I cannot use my cheaper set up as an excuse for a clear lack of talent
Talent is built over time. Don't let a lack of natural talent prevent you from pushing to be better. You'd be surprised of how good you are actually are. Try to change the way you practice and remember that no matter how much seat time you get per week, it all comes down on working on your weaknesses effectively. Good luck, don't give up!
Ian we can still work on that buddy! :D Hows everything btw? still playing?
MartwoPiola great tips thanks
I improved a lot just by changing pedals.
Ditto, paying to win doesn’t necessarily pay off.
I went from a G25 to a CSW V2.5 with CSL elite pedals with LC. After some practice I'm just as fast as I was with my G25. But it's just a nicer experience with the high end gear. I think that is what you should expect when upgrading. But if it happens to make you faster or more consistent it's just a nice bonus.
Erik Heijden + build quality, connectors, materiala ect. im fine with my g29
I use T150, probably the same level as the g25. The force feedback is too slow for drifting that you need to reverse the wheel yourself. The force came too late for me so I spin out and lose control in race.
In all fairness CSL isn't exactly 'high end'
@@brandonryan9582 CSW* is the highest spec belt driven base you can get. The CSL series uses parts the CSW has, too. It is pretty high end, but fades in comparison to Direct Drive wheels.
Those are so much more defined in the steering.
@@wolfx.2546 right first off. the CSL and CSW v.2.5 are completely different. there are plenty of videos on youtube stripping these things down. now ive had the CSL, the csw v2.5 and the direct drive 1 base. the CSL is plastic garbage, the motor and the electronics are no where near as good as the v2.5, and the DD1 is obviously the best out of the 3, but when you turn it down to %12 like most people its not much different from the v2.5 except its more crisp, slightly more detailed. and logitech is just junk. no more to say about it
When i upgraded my stuff i didnt expect to get faster, i did it purely for the immersion.
Thats the reason why most guys do it. Because as he showedw here, you can be just as fast with lower end hardware.
I played on a pad for a long time.when I got a wheel it didnt seem like I was able to do The same times, I was very far. A few months in and I got used to it. And I ended up beating myself and I have the realization that I was horrible in the past and now... Now im still horrible 😂
In Brazil, T500 is the Pro and Fanatec is... well... better buy a Bugatti with that money... lol
I don't think they build different Hardware for different countries. Or an i wrong?
semmelboesel I meant that here a Thrustmaster wheel is already expensive. Our low budget is the Logitec G29. This is why I say T500 is our “pro”. :)
@@thiagoportella9277 ah ok, got it. 😀
@@semmelboesel G29 (w H-6 gears) costs around 1800 reais, or 427 euros. Thats already pretty expensive. I got one, i love it, but its not that cheap
I just buy an used logitech drive force gt for 350 reais. G29, here in brazil its quite expensive too
Really enjoyed this video. I would like to give a few inputs about this test, as a simracer and racing driver, with a few years on this road. I'm from Brazil, so the first thing i'll say is:
- The Thrustmaster wheel isn't quite a low budget setup and is better (in my opinion) than the Logitech G29. Still, this fact doesn't interfere with the video itself.
- I think that the screen and pc hardware should be different, as well, so this could actually be a really 'low budget'.
- It was good to see that, as i have been saying since long ago, if a car is complex, it will require better hardware. Because you will need more precision and fluid visual so you can react faster.
- If you have a equipment that allows you to be faster in a quicker way and find your limits in less time, this also means that, if you practice for 2 hours in a PRO setup it will be more effective than practicing in a low budget setup. This also means that if you can't afford many hours to practice, a better hardware would help you to take the most of the limited time you'll have.
- You'll have better control of your car and be more constant as well, and this is super important in a race.
- A wheel with more buttons correctly placed is much more effective than a wheel that doesn't have it. Why? Because you can change your brake bias, TC, ABS and all the rest of the in-car settings, so you can be faster in each sector of the track. Some cars require this so you can be actually fast.
I do agree that if you get a, for example, Mazda MX5 on iRacing, the difference between a pro and a low budget setup (in a case like this) will be smaller than in a complex car, like a modern F1 or GTE, P1, P2 cars... but still, there will be a difference, besides the laptime.
Fast laptimes are achieved, ultimately with a lot of practice hours and good car setups THAT SUITS YOUR DRIVING STYLE (besides skills and talent, of course). But anything between the sim and the driver can, and probably will, help a driver to find a fast laptime within his driving limits. This is very obvious, because it would be the same thing in a real car.
The speed is in the smallest details. Even if you calibrate your clutch with less traveling time, you can find a few tenths (and avoid shifting mistakes).
Thanks for this video, because even after trying different wheels and simulators, i never had the chance to try the same car, track and PC / monitor with a different set of wheel and pedal, and it was nice to see this happening. I'm looking to get myself a better wheel than my actual Logitech G27 for a while now. :)
The time constraint is key for so many. If you only have 2-3 hours to practise a new weekly track and 1 hour to do your race, the "pro" setup is going to kill the budget one.
Also agree with everything you said about screen fluidity etc.
TLDR. Yes. I went from a low end Thrustmaster to a full on DD2 and V3 pedals. My lap times went down, consistency up, precision in corners up, and road feedback understanding increased.
If anything, buy high end pedals with a load cell brake, the steering wheel, doesn't matter as much. The biggest increase in performance is a good pedal set.
The cost is worth it, to me. Your mileage may vary.
Hi, that's interesting what you say cause i'm of the same opinion. Could you tell me though what platform you are using? I am using rf2 mostly but i don't think it's up to the standard of asetto or project cars, do you?
Cheers
Mikey6048 Then again, the setup options on a Fanatec Wheel can make a lot of difference. I agree on the pedals, but don’t underestimate the effect of a car customized to your driving style via setup against driving „against“ the way the sim delivers the car.
Changing to the V3 pedals did improve my driving alot. I am also going to change to the DD1 and two wheels just to get the best ffb feeling.
I would say that aT500 doesn't equal low budget to many, a T150 or G29 is probably what most would consider low budget, though I think it would still be about the same sort of conclusion I was expecting of with pure out time trials regardless.
I think the real test could be in race conditions where the unexpected happens more regularly, where you can't take the ideal line or your pushing on a slightly different line, where it comes down to reacting to the FFB in unideal conditions, perhaps there you would see less consistency or more times when you are unable to correct in time with less expensive gear? Interesting video to watch.
Saying the t500 has near no FFB is to have to learn by memory cars reacctions is simply stupid. T500 is one of the most powerfull wheels aside DD, Saying that, is to justify himself the cost of a DD over a T500, or that he never used full FBB. Even a logitech has force if tweaked correctly to know how the car is doing.
Yeah, T500 is old but still one of the best non DD wheels.
Wtf??
@@XzessTool He is really talking about the response time of the FFB to be in effect, a DD has a better response time. Good FFB is not all about the total force as it would be a rare mad thing to put a DD to 100%, the big thing is how quickly different force effects can be translated to the wheel, so in comparison there are a lot of smaller faster effects that can't be translated to the wheel fast enough with belt drives or geared drives, these are the instances that he is talking about, like when the tail end unexpectedly starts to lose grip, you will feel it faster on a DD, but may not have time to feel it on a belt or gear drive before losing it, as the car will be too far into the spin to recover before you feel anything from the wheel.
in the end it mostly comes down to the basic thing it much depends on the experience with your own set obviously with own time and a set you use reguralry/allways you will handle unexpected situations and stuff fairly easy. as the video suggest does better hardware make you better driver i dont think so there are players with their all costly sets and players with even a controller going pretty much same speeds or either low end gear.
I got a t300 rs GT with a Playseat challenge, both cost me less than $500 and it’s fun as hell 😂
This is the kind of content that needs to flourish on TH-cam. Such a fantastic video and I’m so glad I found this.
I changed form a Logitech G27 Setup on my Desk, to a Fanatac DD2, Fanatec Inverted Pedals V3 and a full rig with a Sparco Pro 2000 seat. The Rig with components cost me round about 5500 Euros. The main different is that you feel the limit of the car better. Its true it make you not faster, but it depends on which races you like to drive. Sprint or Endurence? If you drive like me, 4-24 hour races, it make a difference. Because the change to crash the car is smaller as with a low budget setup, and when you damage your car it cost you time too. What he forget to say in his video is that you must carfully setup the Pro Level Setup. Because if you drive longer traught the higher FFB you will feel it in your arms ... and thats not good for your consistensy. When you drive Endurence you drive not alone and setup the car is much easier when all have a higher level equipment, so you can make the car setup much more agressiv. I know what i say because i raced with that G27 over 2 years, and the most in my Team has min. a Fanatec Clubsport Wheel and Pedals. For me it was very easy to Oversteer the car with the G27 in that races before.
I use a old G25 and is not enough! I think in buy a dream rig! Simucube 2 Pro with fanatec pedals and fanatec wireless wheel all mount in 3DOF motion system! I love race virtual and real world, but on virtual my ultimate goal e driving pleasure with good force feedback system. High end direct drive systems you feel bette the car...
And later on and last VR
I recently upgraded from a CSW 2.5 and Fanatec V3 pedals to a DD2 and Huesinkveld Sprint Pedals. While my lap times did improve ever so slightly, I blame the improvement more on the pedal upgrade than the base upgrade. I did get all the new stuff at the same time so it is a bit hard to tell.
One thing I think you forgot to mention is that typically when people spend a bunch of money on their new equipment, they also have a tendency to make it a point to use that new equipment a lot more. For instance, I would spend a few hours every week with my old setup, doing my weekly races and what have you. But when I received my new equipment, I was spending probably double the amount of time in the Sim for the first few weeks. That seat time definitely leads to better lap times.
Good video man, keep up the great work.
That's a good point. I didn't really forget to mention that, as much as it was sort of the reason for this review. To make sure that simple learning wasn't causing my improved lap times, I drove the two rigs back to back on the same day. :-)
@@TheSimChannel yeah I get what you were trying to do, but to call the bout in a matter of a day or 2 does not seem to be accurate. I'm saying that the "major" increase in seat time, over a 4-6 week period, is most likely the reason to blame for better lap times.
Seat time > equipment
Completely valid point. Once you own the best of something or at least the best for you...it becomes hard to stop using whatever it is. As soon as I got into high end bows and rifles my shooting time level quadrupled overnight.
@@simaddict6676 Have to disagree here. I used the T500 for about 5 years as my only wheel, until 2 months ago when I got the DD1. So I know it fairly well, and I don't think I have "forgotten" how to use it. Going back to back between the setups until you can no longer improve should be enough. Also, try finding the person who will spend weeks driving an old wheel, to get a test like this ever so slightly more accurate for a little video ;-) I'm convinced I did my due diligence to be as fair and accurate as I could be.
I did upgrade the pedals on my g920 to the Fanatec CS V3 and in my case it did improve my lap times alot. There was no feel to the Logitech pedals at all. So the next upgrade is the cheapest Fanatec DD wheel base.
great review. so interesting and so well made, touching all the most important aspects of such a comparison
Maybe you should do the same on a track that is new to you, so you can't race on memory but more on the feedback that the sim racing hardware is giving to you.
I think that then you will see more differences between te two rigs.
Greetings and thank you for your time.
Without watching it ... money makes you feel better ... a perfect FOV setup plus training makes you faster ... no matter how much money you spend
After watching I can agree with the fact that you need more time and training to build a FFB and Brake memory for each car and track with a low budget setup ... but you can be as fast as with a pro rig ...
i bought Logitech G29 at start i couldnt even keep up with my steam contoller speeds after time spent practicing wheel and pedals i started to get same times or even bit better and its way cleaner to take corners but in the end times are still pretty closeby
@@Wispeks you must be good with a controller. I am waaaaaayyyy faster with a wheel.
@@eduardofreitas8336 naah i just have too low amount of time with wheel and pedals i bet if i keep on playing more my controller times are going to go further and further back.
Meanwhile. Im here with an office chair. Home made table. G27 with inverted pedal mod.
Years ago I used to race in a Race07 league with a G27 wheel and pedals that I had put a squash ball under the brake pedal to get a better feel. I was relatively fast, and even won several of the league races. Since then I built a custom sim rig out of gas pipe, and until last month I was using a CSW V2 wheel, and clubsport V3 pedals. Last month I got a DD1 wheel. I can't say that any of this equipment has made me faster than the days I used a desk chair and a G27, but I can say that what I have now is a hell of a lot more comfortable, and way more immersive. Even if I am not a tenth quicker than I was, the new equipment was still worth It to me.
Copef1 Ever got coaching from a top simracer? I find it strange that your times didn’t improve at all... Even the absolute top guys improve with better gear, so that leads me to suspect it’s your driving... not saying that I am the great Hudini 😂 but I get professional coaching and benefit a ton from it and then some
@@MajorWolf72 I went to Jim Russell racing school when I was 19 years old. I raced real cars for a few years after that. My times may have improved a little with the better gear, but I never really compared since the stuff I was racing when I had the G27 was like GTR2 and Race 07. Since I built the rig and got the new gear I have been using rFactor2, AC, iRacing, Raceroom, Automobilista, etc. I've seen guys that are really fast using old Logitech wheels and pedals though.
Copef1 And there will always be guys being fast on „old“ or cheaper gear, or on pad controllers for that matter. I raced 911 GT3 RS in RL and now in simracing quickly „escalated“ to pro gear as everything else felt flimsy and plasticy. Well, maybe you just can’t get any faster as you‘re crazy fast already 🤷🏻♂️😊💪🏻👍🏻
Such a brilliant comparison, great editing, clear and concise explanations about how everything feels. Thanks
So I'm sticking with my G29
mee too
Same, got some second hand load cell pedals but otherwise I’m happy with the G29
i got a g29 and feels like crap, don't know how people play on it
@@JulijanBone666 which game fo you play? There are settings to improve FFB and Steering inputs. Works fine for me but I've known person who improved braking using Ricmotech load cell mod but brakes work fine for me as i don't use it heavily anyways. As i respond I've just finished posting a lap using a difficult Ferrari gr3 car on GT Sport with my time just under 1 second off the top regional time.
great little wheel
Very interesting video, I have had similar experiences. My G25 served me well for about 8 years, then I went to a Thrustmaster T300 with T3PA pedals. I got a little faster because and more consistent because I could push more confidently, knowing I could make corrections and fix little "oopsies". But I really enjoyed driving it a lot more, it FELT much better.
I then got VR, that also helped a little with consistently as I felt being able to look around at markers, apexes etc made it a little easier to judge where you are on track. Again though, the feeling and immersion that VR brought made me enjoy driving more than ever.
Around the same time I got VR, I started to track my Toyota 86 a lot. And finally start competing in local time attacks etc. I can say that driving real car on track after my 10 years of sim experience was amazing. It felt waaay easier in some ways, obviously it is waaay more scary at first. But after a few track days I realised that the sim experience had really helped me in terms all the important stuff and I was mostly free to just start feeling the car. Being used to crappy feedback, a well setup 86 felt amazing! From my sim experience I thought drifting was incredibly difficult, it was actually pretty easy in my 86. It also true that what I have learned in real life has helped my sim racing.
I mention all this because if you like me and love driving, keep siming, keep upgrading when you can. Mostly enjoy it as much as possible. And if you do one day get in a real car on track, as long as you are careful and build slowly. You will find you have learned a great deal about driving in the real world!
I am also starting karting and how easy I am grasping it (although it does feel much more raw obviously) due to sim racing is very satisfying. Only 3 weeks in and already faster than some of the slower guys wich attend for years.
More money more fun. That's the only real difference and the most important one.
Best video on the subject I have seen! Thanks for this
Hi. Great vid, thank you. I started GT Sport on pad, then Thrustmaster T150 with T3PA pedals (set up with a piece of fence paling g-clamped across arm rests of an old wooden armchair). I bought a wheel-stand for this rig and started improving. Agree with below comment that this is in part because the comfort and immersion = more enthusiasm and time playing. Current set-up is Trak Racer TR8 cockpit with CSL Elite wheel and LC pedals. Lifts everything again. The quality and accuracy of the new set-up over previous absolutely helps. The standout improvement is enjoyment, and thus time playing = improved competitiveness.
my real car costs less than your "low budget setup"
My pedals costs more than my own car.
My car feels like a toy, and my toy feels like a car, and that's the way I likes it, dagnammit
illiterate thug somebody has their priorities straight 😂
Mk7 Alby Then take a look at mines: The low budget setup still is more expansive than BOTH my cars. BUT my guitar gear sums up to more than the pro setup. As far as my sim rig is concerned, I better not talk about it since it's cheaper than a familly night at the theater. Yet if we sold all the houses we own, we could buy a Porsche and have some change left for the speeding tickets...
Eddie O'tool weird flex but ok
@@illiteratethug3305 😂 my downhill bike was 10x more expensive then the van I carry it around in.... Funny old world
Although lap times compare I feel the driving experiences will be a lot more fun in the high budget one
One of the best comparisons I have seen. Thank you
Second part of the video hits the nail on the head: it‘s the details. The deeper your understanding of the physics involved and the higher your level of racecraft the more you‘ll benefit from better hardware. On one specific track I was able to improve my lap time by a full second with my new Fanatec Podium Wheel. Just because I was able to FEEL the car so much better! My friend VLX_Bellof, triple GT Sport World Tour Event finalist, tried it and was instantly a tenth faster which on his level makes a potential difference between pole and midfield. No one HAS TO invest in pro hardware, but rest assured: If you are willing to put in the hours and the effort to becoming a good driver, the superior setup will pay off!
I just upgraded from a g27 old cushioned chair and kitchen table. The g27 cost me £50. I just upgraded to dd1, H sprints and aluminium profile rig with sparco bucket seat. Still practicing and am just about equal to my g27 laptimes. Though I sent it back, my fastest (not so much fastest but most consistent, which is in itself faster) lap times was with g27 plus vr. I know I will eventually be slightly faster or maybe just remain equal but the whole experience is awesome, more immersive and more enjoyable. Though g27 plus vr was a great experince. With the virtual wheel you kind of forget you are using a g27. For what it is the g27 is a great piece of kit and you can be just as competitive 👍
then you must be in the category of the weekend drivers ...doesn't matter if you drive porche ,or trabant you will be at equal speed no matter what ..
Nice work, great analysis and thoughtful explanation. One of the most helpful TH-cam videos I've seen in ages. Sadly though, even the 'budget' set-up is way beyond my financial means, so it'll continue to be dual shock for me for the foreseeable future. :o(
Glyn Davies thrustmaster tmx on a desk for 180€
@@janh1186 Thanks Jan. Still too much for me right now though. It was a big deal buying the PS4 in the first place lol and I didn't get that until November 2018!
Best explanation of difference between dd and belt driven I've seen so far, not all about torque but feel. Nice video sir.
I do believe the torque is important though, and it is part of what allows me to notice these sensations. However, I spent so much time talking about torque in the DD1 review that I figured I'd just focus this one on what differences it makes wrt performance.
i went from thrustmaster T3pa pro pedals and fanatec V2.5 up to heusinkveld sprints and over night I knocked 1.5 seconds off my lap times on monza on iRacing, I knocked 2.5 seconds off my best time on Spa on iRacing and a massive 4.5 seconds on LeMans. And I felt I couldn't get a single millisecond out of them TM pedals, I had them modded to crap with extra stiffer springs I put a stopper inside the brake to limit it to 74% which was max pressure before locking the front tyres I did everything I could to scrape every tenth of a second. And I all I really needed was to buy better pedals.. I really wish someone had told me tbh, I've won 16-23 races so far this season which is just unreal for iRacing it's genuinely the hardest sim I've played
Good video, but the T500 isn’t really a low budget wheel in comparison to say a Logitech or lower end Thrustmaster (T150). Based on personal experience, you’d probably see a little better disparity between pro and budget, but driver skill can compensate that since you’ve likely developed good muscle memory at this point.
If you’ve got any friends that aren’t in to sim racing or are beginners, try this experiment with them and see the results. I’ve got an old backup rig using an ancient G29 and a Playseat stand, putting newbies on that then letting them drive my DD2, Heusinkveld, RSeat N1 rig the difference is usually pretty significant in favor of the “pro rig”, like 1-3 seconds per lap in a GT3 on AC.
Regarding the low budget aspect: 640€ is not exactly "little money", I see that. But you can clamp it to a desk and buy it used, and you'll get a similar experience at ~250€. Of course, there are worse wheels to have than a T500, but yeah. I chose to use this one because that's what I have here, and I was curious what what the difference would be ;-)
"If you've got any friends" ... ouch, noticed my KartKraft friends leaderboard, eh? ;-) Kidding aside, I think you're probably right, but it's difficult to do. Lap times are usually all over the place, and it just brings in a big bunch of variance that won't help much in getting "presentable" results.
Yeah, but the t300rs can be found for as low as $200.
@@FTGTapGod ... and for all intents and purposes, it should be pretty comparable to the T500, no?
@@TheSimChannel Correct. I think TM have basically replaced the t500 with the t300rs.
@@FTGTapGod I think the T300 is a bit weaker in peak force but is said to be a bit better at conveying smaller bumps and stuff. Thus, I think in a way, the T500 was replaced by both the T300 and the TS-PC. At the same time, the T500 is still being sold as new by some retailers. Anyway, I don't think this test would've had a significantly different result with either of the other two wheels.
Finally my poor configuration is Nice,
Tmx (70€ used) +th8a (100€ used) +t3pa (60€used)+home made rig (100€ with a omp bucket seat)
Gr8 job esp. W/ statistics.
Moving from Logitech to Thrustmaster to Fanatec, it felt less joystick like and less laggy.
I went back to try a TM TX without a loadcell and I felt less details but surprisingly I drove well, liked it and never had problems without the loadcell.
Thank you for the comparison, unexpected results.
Low Budget is a Controller, even that low budget setup is a high budget for most people.
Nah fuck that. Low budget is keyboard with mouse steering
paid 120 dollars for a thrustmaster tmx, total setup cost : 120
Lmao
Me too lmao
I went from a worn G25 to Fanatec CSW a few months ago and did direct comparison in AC Competizione. I did exactly the same lap times on both wheel sets. More expensive equipment does not magically eliminate your flaws as racing driver. On the other hand the change has greatly improved immersion, comfort and fun for me personally.
Appreciate your efforts mate.
Fast sim driver is fast regardless of how expensive the rig is
Just like a great irl driver will push a car further up the field than it has any right to be.
Thats called talent
We used to say this a lot.
Then technology has progressed and none of the fast guys driving G25 anymore...
Son...As my plastic surgeon always says..." The better the rig, the bigger the man. "
@Samzilla: Almost but.., in the end I even had maybe 1-3 tenth of a different, not always but in some cars, between DFGT and the good old G25. The G25 was the 1-3 tenth 'faster' one, so I sold my DFGT (more just to save room ;) ). Though the DFGT at least felt fast / good (but wasn't in the end when calculated everything in..).
DFGT = also just too weak FFB strenght (topping out much because of being at its peak, so FFB information is lost), whereas in the G25 I need to turn it (FFB strenght) down a bit (unless I want to body-built a bit). (Same for the G25 brake pedal when driving daily, so it now has a less heavy clutch spring in it. Makes the pedal fine-edit with your food easier as well.)
Think it depends on driver really. For example I use a T300/v2 pedals but I go to Denmark for a LAN event where we use a DD and pro pedals. I usually improve by nearly a second in lap time with the DD and better pedals. And improve a lot more in wet.
that expeirence seems to mirror mine with the FLM09 at Spa before I went back to the low budget setup.
thank you very much for the honest and detailed comparison!
That first kart track is Geelong! Driven on there heaps
Here in Victoria?
Ermin Hamidovic yeah
Dude went soo low-budget, couldn't even afford shoes. lol
Very nice analysis. Liked and subscribed. 👍
All the comments about the 'low budget' set up aside, that was a really interesting video. It really shows that you can learn to do fast lap times using whatever set up you have. The more you pay, the better the feedback which will help consistency and the ability to control slides. Invest in pedals first, wheel second! I'm happy with my G29 but will look to upgrade in the next year or so.
Your version of low budget is my high budget 😂, low budget being: Thrustmaster T80 and a TV tray, lmao. Just kidding I'm getting a Thrustmaster T300 finally!
€640 as low budget.
Can't wait to be a pro lawnmower driver with my trusty T150 ultra low budget wheel.
Should have got a TMX
@@Kuhrmys it's exactly the same, but for XBOX and with the max degrees cut down to 900.
@@Kuhrmys TMX is around €200 here.
The T150 were on sale at €120, which it was a good deal back then
A much appreciated video and opinion. Thank you.
Awesome video. Subscribed
Come on guys. Budget is a HORI wheel and Pedals.
Budget is an Xbox 360 Controller.
Your "Budget" is most people's "High end"
Here! Here!
Nope
@@Pradozj22 Nope what?
No. He is comparing budget and high end simracing setups. You are talking about budget and high end casual gaming setups. There is a very big difference there.
@@DiViNiTY1337 Okay.. Fradiccus.
Calm down.
Good job Leon,
Though I would say the T500rs is more like a mid (or mid/low) range setup - but that's ok - pretty much the same... ;)
My experience is approx the same - around 0,3 - 0,4 for my best times, but even more on the consistency side.
My experience is from iRacing, and I think it is a bit sad, that you didn't make a test in that. - I think it really shines trough in iRacing - because it feels like iRacing is made for DD wheels and not low budgets. (but that's maybe just me xD )
On the others hand - a better wheel does not make you quicker if you are playing "all the time" - but for us, who are just driving a few hours a week - it makes a huge difference!
A DD wheel feels like it should - and you really don't have to get used to it - it just feels natural... You are also flagging this in your video! GJ again ;)
And for those who are saying the Fanatec DD is not a pro setup - don't worry - they haven't tried it ;) (Or they are just fanatec-haters - and why listen to those...)
Fact is, if you go with Kollmorgen, Mige, (Simucube), Fanatec - it doesn't really matter - they are all really good, and it is more about the software for the wheel and sim, than the actual motor.
(I have tried the Kollmorgen, Mige and Fanatec - and yes - they are all pretty damn good. - Simucube is in brackets because I haven't tried it - but pretty sure it is as good...)
Is fanatec dd comparable to other dd? I'm in the US so I think getting the fanatec one would be easier
@@tehgusbus2716 I think it is - and I think most of those who have actually tried it (and not just claims it/fanatec haters) thinks the same.
There will always be different opinions on "what is the best" - why none of the DD's will get all votes. (Ofc. accuforce wont get any xD)
If I where you, I would look into one of new Simucubes or Fanatec dd2 (the dd"2" because of the 5 year warranty) both have wireless connection to the wheel. I think the Leo Bodnar is overpriced - because of the expensive Kollmorgen motor.
When you look at it, you should think about the whole ecosystem - and what "talks" to you. (by whole, i mean motor and wheels to put on it. At least if you want something that just work out of the box)
Motors are so close to each other, so when it comes to what bodnar/osw/simucube/fanatec is using - the main difference is the software(for wheel and sim), and how you set it up. (Notice: I have not tried the Simucube! But got reason to believe it is on level with the others.)
On the software part - Fanatec may have an advantage - because they are making mid-end wheels as well. (equals to their customer base is WAY bigger than the others.) Why game developers got a better reason to integrate Fanatec wheels in their game.
Some may argue that, the overall quality assure of their podium line, is not where it should be.
At some point, I can agree with that. But I think, we should have in mind the challenges Fanatec have had with the DD1 motor - and in last minute decided to put the DD2 motor in the DD1, to avoid more disappointing delays of the release. Now we can argue if they made the right choice or not.
For the customer who has preordered the product, I think it was the right choice, but for the rumor of the company and their wallet - i'm not so sure. ;)
Fanatec has great customer support, why I think it was the right choice for the customer - if they had to assure the quality better - the release date would have been delayed. Now this delay only hits those who have had problems with their product, and had to send it back and forth to fanatec. Others (far most) have had a great experience.
Sorry for the long answer - the short one is "yes - it is comparable" ;-)
Many of us only have a wheel stuck to a a table whick in many cases causes noticeable flex and often bad distances and angles between stuff and so on. Would love to see a comparison with that added as a low budget and then have the "low budget" in this video as a midrange setup.
So ive been through this myself;
G27 wheel and pedals standard mounted to PC desk.
G27 wheel with modded FF and uprated brake spring mounted to desk and VR
Fanatec CSW V2.5 with V3 pedals and shifter and VR and driving seat/rig
I was fast and consistent with my original set up. (already 10+ years using a wheel and playing sim racing on pc)
Then got better again modding it.
Then after about 1 year of using my new latest set up after finding good settings and a lot of fine tuning i'm finally getting better again this time by a bigger margin.
The Fanatec full system with seat and VR is worth it if you can afford it and use it enough to justify the £2000-3000 cost to get everything. I would personally never look back.
BUT for less than £200 you can have great fun with a G27 with 10mins worth of custom FF settings and a £10 spring of ebay.
you will not feel left out with a budget set up!
lol love the details when playing in low budget, you don't have racing shoes and gloves.
Well, that's not just for show though. On the 50kg brake it's uncomfortable in socks, but on the T3PA-Pros I wouldn't get enough feeling for the brake with shoes. Then on the DD1 I want to keep sweat away from the alcantara, and get a better grip of the strong wheel, while on a T500 gloves would just be silly.
I'm seeing a lot of comments mentioning that the t500 isn't low budget. It seems most of them forget the t300rs exists and is a much better wheel than the t150. Very similar to the t500. The t500 isn't sold anymore, but the t300rs can be found for as low as $200. I think that hits your point home even more.
With that money saved you could spend more on a nice set of mid ranged csl elite pedals and still be spending a similar amount.
Even though you can't match the feeling you get from high end gear, you can't argue a t300rs with CSL Elite Pedals and a Next Level/GT Omega stand wouldn't be a great setup. I definitely think there's a difference between budget and pro gear, but I think all the people knocking you for your wheel choice were missing the point. (And the fact that the t300rs is so cheap now 😉)
thanks for pointing that out :-)
I have that exact set up +VR, I'm wondering if a podium would be too strong for the next level wheel stand?
I've had the t500 but threw it away because it kept overheating (even with 'low' ffb strength). Instead of modding the cooling I bought a used ts-pc wheel. It's really good, more subtle feedback, 'faster/sharper' feedback and no overheating. Deffo recommend it.
This is a really important video. Thank you for making it. I’m on the “low budget” equivalent with a $200 floor stand and a Logitech G923 I bought this summer. The spring in the new G923 brake pedal I find quite good but I’ve never used the expensive one to see the difference. I play Assetto Corsa almost exclusively. The learning curve has been steep and often very frustrating but I have my Silverstone lap in the Bentley down to 2:00.9 That’s taken months and a lot of cursing - mainly at dirty drivers who kick my tail out even when there’s no blue flag but I’m confident that with a month or two more I can break the 2:00 mark and get my SA above 70. It’s been hard learning though so your observations about the budget wheel make perfect sense. It’s also become extremely important for me to memorize the tracks which also supports your observations about the need to memorize tracks on the budget wheel. The only way I can be competitive is to have the track completely memorized down to every last move and shift which is why I’m only comfortable on about three tracks at this point. In the end I would agree that it’s possible for budget wheelers to compete with direct drivers but it takes a lot more work and practice. Not sure if my apartment will ever support a bigger rig but at least I know that I can compete with enough effort and hey maybe I’ll strap a direct drive wheel to my stand one day if I can afford it. Thanks again for the helpful video.
Very very good comparison. Thank you very much.
How you check it when T500 is Low Budget wheel? T150 is better reference from this test.
I have T300. And my dream wheel is FANATEC
Dream onnn
How is the t300 I'm waiting for mine to ship now
Matt Hewitt its very shitttt it got the worst force feedback
*Cries with T300 GT
But like for real if that’s the lowest budget set you got including the rig I totally get it
Great video. Very professional and open minded summary. Like and subs.
My inputs are better with my CSL Elite, my V3 pedals are a game changer. On a slick dirt track, I can rest my foot on the brake, kind of like traction control. The pedal throw, along with the hydraulic cylinder helps, in that it slows down my happy foot, and make my pedal inputs less sensitive.
That really should not be low budget. Low budget is a DFGT attached to a desk with the default pedals on the ground. Let's do this video again.
I have the same set-up. I drive ac online and the diverence i see with high set-up drivers thy tend to brake later and into the corner where i have brake before the corner.
Preach
Does it cost 10th of a good set? So it is low budget after all?
The answer is yes, but only if you're at the absolute top of the scene
But if you just sim race for fun, no
Great video!
Great driving bro! You are pretty damn consistent and smooth it looked pretty professional! Great video and great work man keep it up!! 🤙💯
I have a G29 and I do love it. I use it everyday. BUT. I have been wanting a Fanatic in the worst way lol I really want that precision feedback so as you said, I wouldn’t have to rely on muscle memory 😩 but. It is what it is. Lol hope someday I can FINALLY get one🤞
For pure laptime it doesn't matter. Xbox 360 controller users are topping RSR leaderboards and same in other sims, humans can adjust to anything.
Exactly, adaptation is key
Exactamundo. 3 grand on all that shit, what a waste of money.
I don’t think a sim is really just about better lap times. For me it’s wether it feels real. Crappy equipment just can’t reach the real feel of a good set up.
Similar to my comment, just made.
You right but he didn't use a crappy equipment in any cases, he should use a G920
Good point. It’s honestly all about feel. I could tell with my TMX Pro and Playseat Challenge that I want more lol.
I noticed a similar improvement by upgrading my T300 rim to the 330 mm R383. The added diameter a lows me to be more precise, forces from the base don't cause me to over react as much, & I could increase the FFB settings w/o it feeling like it was jerking me around.
Now I'm faster & more consistent. It allowed me to Inc the AI by 10%
At a point you start paying for realism instead of speed
I somewhere read that winner at some e-sport event used g25 or g27 and blew everyone with better wheels and pedals. I don't know how much truth is there but I wouldn't be surprised. In my experience better equipment gives you better feel and immersion but not necessarily make you a better sim-racer.
Aliens have usually always used low end hardware. Expensive hardware might make someone not experienced enough In simracing faster but the people who have the talent and the hours can do just as good on any setup.
One thing I noticed in both test cases was that the big moments you had were far easier (relative) to catch in the pro setup thanks to the feedback it gave. This could make driving consistently at the limit less risky
that's exactly how I would put it :-)
Since when is a t500 a low budget wheel??? XD
Mr H, Since the introduction of the direct drive.
Firstly, that's not exactly a low budget setup. Mine is;
$80 t80 Thrustmaster + pedals
$3 plastic chair
$10 table(for mounting the wheel)
simply answered, put an amazing racer in a budget car or sim rig he will pass with flying colours, put a not so good driver in a car or sim rig and he will not even be close. its all about your skill not what you have ;) peter brock proved that, Other than that, great video bro!! :D
I gained almost 3 seconds a lap on my best times at Road America in GT3 cars, and improved on most tracks when i recently went from a G29 to a DD1 with V3 pedals, and i have found i am able to learn new tracks much easier than before.
It looks like youre using a television as your display, and from experience i can say without question a fast monitor makes a noticable difference. I went from a 28" UHD 60Hz 1ms TN panel to an Asus PG27VQ, which is a QHD 165Hz 1ms TN panel, big difference when you swap between the two, and i found myself having to work much harder to control the car on the 60Hz panel.
You got major driving issues or other PC issues if you gain 3 seconds. A tenth or 2 at the most.
vince R no mate. Nothing wrong with any of the other stuff. The resolution of the wheel and pedals is much higher, and the lag is less. Couple that to the 165Hz monitor over the 60Hz and it is far easier to drive.
I didnt gain 3 seconds on every track, some are 1/2-1 second, but the best case was 3 seconds.
Anyone getting better laptimes going from something like a TM T300 or F Clubsport to a DD doesn't know how to drive. You can drive just as good without a DD. DD wheels do help with oversteer since most sims are shit in handling at the limit but that's because DD wheels unrealistically countersteer crazy powerfully so they drive for you. This coming from a DD owner.
If you need a DD wheel to go faster then you should go back to your old wheel and practice more because you're driving is the problem not your wheel.
vince R I‘m calling BS. I know a lot of top drivers and they are all faster on a DD.
low budget would be say g27 g29 with logitech pedals or standard thrustmaster pedals...thats a mid budget setup
Deserve more subs. Way more.
Great comparison video! It's difficult for some of us to accept that better gear improves the experience. lol
I feel the shortcomings of my T300 every now and then when it fails to react fast enough! Doesn't happen very often but when it does I yearn for direct drive.
I will say this...if you spend the time to setup your ffb settings really well you can make the bridge somewhat shorter between belt drive and direct drive wheels. Cheers.
I've got a t300, too. Did you notice the difference in the road effects on his dd versus the cheaper one? I dont think he tinkered with in game ffb. I know if I clip a high curb, my wheel will just about yank out of my hands. And even in a straight line, I can feel all the bumps & ridges in the road.
Damn, you made me feel poor instantly by calling my T500RS a low budget wheel. #sadface I understand what you mean, I just need 2400 euros for the full fanatec experience
So, are we just going to ignore how he didn't change his FOV settings even though he went further from the screen? How dare he?!?! ;-)
Of course, the FOV police is here... ;-) In KartKraft my hands were tied because I need to see a bit of the front wheels. In AC it just felt alright the way it was. Did not feel like I had to do any mental projection there. But yeah, in a perfect world, I would have adapted it.
@@TheSimChannel You have officially been policed - my work is done here. ;-) Really nice driving though, and thanks for testing this out for us poor people who only have access to poor-people-equipment.
Lol, the only difference is the distance to the screen. If you were able to get that consistent, it would probably have helped with consistency in the low budget setup.
This is good news to me. My set up was a gift so I can only estimate its cost between 600-800 dollars but I love it and have wondered how it would be possible to have faster laps because of a more expensive set up.
When i went to a dd wheel i improved quite a bit cause the feel allowed things in tracks i didnt know were there so it made me smoother with translated to faster and alot better experience
I just got gt sport and im getting tired of using the gamepad. Definitely feels like things would be smoother with a wheel.
Matt Maloney once you understand and have the wheel setup it’s much better 👍🏾
You can usually get a G29 for 70 quid around xmas time. Might find it at that price now too. its worth 150. Had mine for nearly 2 years and its the best thing i did. Take some getting used to to at first though lol
It will fell better and more enjoyable.. take some time to get fast I’m still not fast as I was I. Controller 👍🏾
@@tunedingaming9620 yah gt sport is the first sim style racer ive got into. I turned off the driving assists and find i much prefer it to arcade style racers now. Even with just the controller im having fun getting gold on all the license tests. I think ill get the logitech wheel eventually!
If you get a decent wheel setup, you'll be left wondering why you EVER bothered playing any racing game with a controller.
No bro. Budget build is a t80 with a wooden stand made in your garage with a left over office chair from work
I have a t80 doing under 7min on nur in gt sport not in f1 redbull vgt or tomahawk no vibration or forcefeedback tough having force feedback does feel better tough
just a g920 on my desk no stand nothing i really wish i could have a stand tho
Got a T150 screwed onto my table with the T3PA pedals ... the most amazing thing is playing FH4 on 4K resolution, first person, no assistance ... makes you feel like racing on a "budget" ...
I actually went slightly slower with a wheel compared to a DS3, but I gained consistency and could make tires and fuel last longer. I think its safe to assume the higher end equipment continues to add to that effect.
I've gone from a G28 to Fanatec Clubsport V2 and now a DD1 direct drive wheel. If you are just hotlapping you can learn to do all of the same things on a lower end rig. I think the real difference comes in your ability to feel the car and react correctly when you make a mistake, are forced offline, running side-by-side or trying to out brake someone. I know that the confidence that I am going to be able to feel what's happening in those situations makes a big difference to me. The ability to stay on track in sketchy situations might not help your fast lap times but will likely lead to better results. Also the overall experience is more immersive which I think helps in my ability to stay focused, especially in longer races. I think one thing is pretty clear. The more natural talent you have the less important equipment is to your performance. Those guys that are lapping 3-4 seconds faster than you are just as likely to be running gear that is every bit as crappy as yours.
Probably alone in this but I just don’t actually like the look of the high budget wheel, it’s too square and controller looking.
It's closer to a formula style wheel.
i like it better
Not gonna lie, I’d be extremely happy with the “low budget one” and since you have the high end one, u can give me the low budget one anyway, right😉
Please😂😭
Haha, for the moment I'm keeping it in case I decide to make an update on this one ;-)
What a review excellent
Great video. Always hard with such a subjective topic like wheel setups.
I personally currently am using a g29 on a basic wheel and pedal stand against the lounge. The stand and distance from tv is far from ideal.
Personally I find that overall lap times are definitely able to be comparable but it does take a lot longer to get there without the right setup.
And I find it is harder to keep maximum pace in a race scenario with tyre wear effects compared to when I had a proper rig with direct drive wheel.
Little improvement at the cost of 3000 is not worth it
At least you shouldn't spend that money if all you want from it is better lap times :-)
As someone who has a moderately expensive rig, I can 100% say its worth it if you can afford it. The level of immersion is off the charts with VR and high end gear.
Captain Clutch agreed 100%. It is all about immersion. You don’t buy a high end rig to get faster. If you can drive you can also drive fast with a lower end rig. It is the master who drive not the equipment.
Imho the load cell is a must if you want to be competitive. Your hand is only to correct the mistakes your legs make. Although that's much easier with good force feedback. I've recently upgraded from a g27 to a fanatec csw v2, and I'm a lot more confident now. I also had the chance to try a direct drive wheel. I loved it, but I don't think I would be quicker with it than with my csw, so it is a pretty good compromise, especially if you can get one second hand. I've bought the csw with + a formula black rim for 400 eur all together.
My low end setup came with my xbox (gamepad) and still allowed me to get into the top 25 Xbox Live times up pikes peak in Dirt Rally.
I've been using a dfgt for the past two years (my first ffb wheel) and think it's brilliant, especially considering it only cost £40
i have a wheel and pedals. thats it. i use the floor for the pedals, a small table for the wheel, and a folding chair to sit in. i am happy with it, and do perform decently.
Good video!
What I learned today is that I don't have €3000 lying around so I will probably stick with my TX Racing Wheel, especially if I can get somewhat similar lap times out of it. It certainly was an interesting comparison to watch though.