@@BigVorst genuinely shocking how this guy wasn't fired 5 times already. His job as a CM has only ever made the community more angry at Fatshark. The Darktide kerfuffle has only been the recent one. It's been this way since Verm 1.
@@TaRAAASHBAGSdumb cm's don't help but fatshark are digging their own graves just fine. Darktide has been a dumpster fire since I started in beta, nowadays I pop in every few months and the only worthwhile thing they did for the game was the talent trees and a couple maps. Iunno maybe that's their tactic, keep the latest game in such a shit state players will jump on their previous game
ive been playing vermintide since the launch of VT1, and I never once thought a versus mode would work particularly well with vermintide's format. The entire game, especially in 2, is balanced around your team's ability to remove immediate threats like specials as quickly as possible. It was never going to be fun getting oneshot by snipey crossbows or rifles.
the idea they are going towards is more work and not the direction I would want tbh, the game would have done better with something like an invasion mode and instead let players who want to play rats just quickplay into games with people who have enabled it during a game of chaos waste or Legend/cata difficulty. Keep the balance on heroes as they are supposed to be heros not survivors, this also assures that the higher end playerbase can play on the difficulty they want with the orange/red gear they have and lets players play rats exclusively. To the very least make that a gamemode because the vs they are making isnt going to last very long imo, ignoring bugs the balance is being tailored to rats so far in the playtest with Grain being the most survivor sided which isnt saying much since they still barely win at all with how much damage rats are doing now.
Agreed, just looking at this game it seems abso-fricking-lutly not meant to be versus. It was meant to be 'you as a group against a horde of mooks and some bosses' and balance for this is likely going to be such a nightmare the game might feel completely different by the time ti is done. I do hope they keep both modes separate (balance wise) at the very least. Otherwise not only they might screw the pooch on the pvp but also annoy the pve folks.
Pretty much exactly the same here, been playing since vt1 snd never really expected a vs mode or for it to work at all. It MIGHT of had a chance in 1 since the gameplay is far simpler and more in line with its L4D connections, but making a balanced VS mode in Vt2 seems like a sysyphian undertaking with all the classes, weapons, trinkets, etc.
VT1 was already heavily balanced in favour of the heroes and VT2 just made them even more overpowered. The game was clearly never designed with Versus even as a back of the mind consideration, and any attempt to warp the game into being balanced will always make it feel bad to play. I really agree with what @DaemonPrince was saying that this would work better as a kind of invasion mode where the pactsworn players accept the fundamental fact that they're going to be much weaker than the heroes and this is not a balanced game, and just want to have fun screwing with players.
If nothing else, Versus mode really lets people get the true Skaven Experience(TM) of a battlefield just turning into a mess of poison gas and fire everywhere.
@@FourheadWeapon I don't know about in Versus, but the specials totally do in the main game. If you do a bit of manuvering, you can make Ratling guns kill their allies.
I mean, I found that to be really fun. I think people complaining are in sweat mode and I hope Fatshark doesn't fine tune the fun out of the mode. It would suck for it to just turn into another highly competitive mode.
The specials also didn't have movement animations that cater to player input. In fact i'm pretty sure none of the specials had any strafing animations at all
I love how easy it is to see how your brain works, you're trying to stream on every different day of the week, trying out new games, Versus comes out for Vermintide, you stream it, disappear, now this. It's funny, and it's always good to see you talking about funne rats.
the original playtest there was a map with alot of ledges.... the packmaster could grab a player, jump off the ledge, and take the player with them killing them instantly
Having played every versus tests, It's interesting to see how the rats have evolved; On the first alpha test (C.A.T), the Warpfire thrower would usually die just by being stared at. And thing got comically bad for the heroes before the R.A.T change to rat spawn chances, where there was no restriction on the rat type; So you could easily get 4 poison wind globadier, and it was either extremely funny if you were the rat, and extremely frustrating as the Ubersreik 5; Funnily enough, there also was a lot more healing around.
its funny seeing them have such a l4d inspired game but not take any pages out of their book. I dont know how they didnt see multiple of the same special spawning being maybe overpowered when l4d1 had that problem lmao. If some of their devs played left 4 dead versus more they'd get it right the first time.
They should make the healing pot be the pills for THP, and the medkit remain as it is, maybe make it take longer to heal, but the amount would be the same.
@@thickrebar2634 because left 4 dead gameplay is bare bones and you dont have heroes with super powers, its all humans with guns that have a push button, any special in left4dead is a threat because you are very weak alone, but you can deal with any special threat in vermintide alone because the characters are way stronger, you got weapons that deal better with certain threats better than others, you got special abilities to force enemies to back away and other things, i could snipe any special down in 1 sec in vermintide while in l4d i could never actually kill specials super fast because the weapons were never extremely strong and i could not have a build to make them stronger
@@bleeem I was making a specific point and you didnt give me any reason why what I said might be wrong. Of course different things will apply and and different things wont. But multiple specials of the same type in l4d1 was broken and is the same in vermintide versus so that is a page they couldve taken out.
@@thickrebar2634 its easier said then done the specials in Vermintide die in one shoot from most of the weapons while the specials in L4D all had chunky health pools
no I didn't, the last part comes after this one, but you actually misremembered yours: it's "we prey at night, we stalk at night", not "we hunt at night" 😜
Vermintide is great for clicking on rats and watching them explode in first person melee combat. Adding other players to the rat horde never seemed like a good idea to me. It still doesn't, and because it's Fatshart I kind of knew it was going to be an uphill battle to being even close to good.
I think that while FS has a long record of releasing stuff too early they also have a decent record of getting things right eventually. And then, when they've tinkered with everything for a year, then the games is amazing. I couldn't believe the grognards when they said how terrible everything but the core gameplay loop had once been in VT1 when I joined in very late in the game's life cycle. I've played V2 since the last beta before release and I suddenly saw what they had meant. And then FS got it together and V2 was an amazing game. Sure, they screwed up with Weaves, but Chaos Wastes great. They also screwed up with Versus announcement and such, but from what I've played in the alpha tests, it's looking to be a lot of fun. Sure, you get picked off fast as rats, but I don't even mind. It's fun watching the Ubersreik Five smashing rats, even if you're a rat IMO.
@@damsen978 explained so much that it literally explains nothing. I’ve beaten this game on Cata and it’s special brand of bullshit, and it’s pretty obvious to anyone who isn’t a mouth breather that multiplayer versus wasn’t the intended game play. Which is why it feels awkward as a rat player. But I’m sure you being such an expert already knew that.
I think the Heroes really should feel insane, and the Pactsworn should be more... varied. Maybe its just me, but I'm not playing Skaven to be competitive - I'm playing Skaven because I want to commit warcrimes and have fun doing it. Tuning the player-controlled Pactsworn to have cooldowns/limits related to their potency is a really simple fix that would help with a lot of issues. Globadier too strong? Lower his initial damage with higher scaling over time the longer you're in the gas, encouraging teamplay with immobalizers. Pact master getting bodied? Give him a minor health buff, give him a stealth ability you can activate to shut him up so he can surprise you, and boom, instant usage. Gutter runner feels too sluggish? Double his movement speed. Ratling gunner dealing too little damage? Ramp it up the lower his ammo is because warpstone. I don't think anyone playing Pactsworn should expect a fair fight at all, nor the Heroes. The Ubersreik Five should be strong, and the Pactsworn should feel weak, but they have allies who cover for said weaknesses. The Heroes need to succeed every single encounter they come across to score, but the Pactsworn only need one good opportunity to win. If you want a large-scale rework that could be good, though, giving Pactsworn the ability to control when hordes spawn and things like that (perhaps basing intensity on frequency of spawns/location) could help.
So you are sayinfg basically the rats should be more of a horde than a 'special ops' team like the human side is. Perhaps more of a support to the mook rats. I like the way you mention balancing the gas, it'd make sense. Seems the ability is meant more for denial and chaos than raw damage. So having scaling damage that begins small but raises makes more sense, to 'flush people out of small areas, or try to drive them into the open ofr other rats to fight'. Perhaps it's ok if the rats are more fragile, because there are many of them. As you say, 'rat team needs to get lucky once, the humans need to survive the ordeal' The 'disable guy' is something I feel makes sense, just... make him not be screaming, maybe make it a cooldown. Make the guy meant to suppress and make ranged damage actually do more damage. Maybe penetrate shielding a bit?. Cause stacking DoT the more they get shot in a short while because warpstone?
"I'm not playing skaven to be competitive - i'm playing skaven because i want to commit warcrimes and have fun doing it" Is the best summary of why i play skaven in age of Sigmar. (and hopefully vermintide at some point) I simply seek to sate my rat desire.
I missed out on playing the latest test, but one of my suggestions after the early ones was giving the Pactsworn the ability to earn reinforcements. Spawning a patrol at a choke point would be a game changer... though the reason I made this suggestion was because of a patrol that spawned for us during one rat round that just plain refused to move out of the room they appeared in.
Yeah, man, I agree with you! They shouldn't be equal in terms of strenth! Your suggestions are also pretty interesting, about the balance. Personally, I didn't feel that ratling gun is too weak, but I haven't play much versus. But packmaster is stupidly weak and globadier is really op, they really need to change that. Oh, and a troll. Also very unfun to play against, if you don't have grail knight/bounty hunter
Idea for the Pact Master, give them a little bell do they can target specific heroes with some plague rats who are following them. Make it like the bile zombie's effect in l4d2, so nearby skaven will also turn to attack that specific hero for a short time. If the Pact Master dies, the plague rats go do their normal thing. It's like the Necromancer, but as a skaven.
At a certain point they need to stop updating two IP’s at the same time and dig their feet in on one of them, because CLEARLY getting an update going for both games takes longer than studios do at half their team size at how long it takes for Fatshark to get one out for one of them.
Never seen a video from you before. Suddenly you’re showing up in my recommended and I am loving the format. Both informative and chock full of memes. Keep it up!
Imagine my surprise when, while listening to this video in the background while playing Darktide, I hear mention of “space Vermintide” and bemusedly glance over at my phone only to see a very familiar clip! When I started using the Xbox One’s DVR feature to document game highlights and glitches all those years ago, I never thought they’d end up being used in a video essay to highlight the rocky state of Vermintide 2 on launch. That seriously made my day. XD
Jonfon1 who made a kind of character select screen for vs some time ago gave the pactsworn a bunch of passive/active skills to flesh them out. Examples where the pactmaster having a ratogre that he could command but once he died the beast would go on a rampage a chaos warrior gathering marauders around them and having a sort of lesser hoard or plague monks being immune to poison wind globe's and having damage resistance. I think having stuff like that would maybe no balance it properly but make it fun play.
Fun should be prioritized over balance. If balance swings in favor of one side, that's not even a problem, seeing as literally everyone that match will get their chance. If rats are broken but fun, cool, suffer them as survivors for a short time and then it's your turn to bully them, and vice versa.
@@PANCAKEMINEZZ It just wont work like that. In left 4 dead fashion it will be a tryhard rage fueled mode as that is how left 4 dead versus is. Most people wont enjoy poor balance.
@@thickrebar2634 Idk, Cata's general playerbase is very chill and doesn't care about 'get gudding' even though the difficulty is harder than the rage fueled toxic minefield that is Legend.
@@PANCAKEMINEZZ If half the playtime is not fun people are just going to quit as soon as the novelty of the OP side wears off. Fun and balance aren't competing, outside of strict tournament rules, balance is pursued almost entirely for the purpose of making a game fun.
HOLD IT! People negative bombed Wind of Magic because they hid a difficulty level behind a paywall. Cataclysm is fun, as is the new map with it, and sure, Weaves cannot be everyone's jam, but it is objectively a good game mode too, with a still active, and might I add, filled with the biggest pros playerbase! Doing 120-160 ranked levels takes insane skills, if you are confident on chaos wastes cata, multiply it with 10, then you get the skill ceiling for highest bracket on ranked weaves!
Blightstormers seem like the kind of player controlled enemy that'd either be terrible or game breakingly overpowered, with an in-between that'd be impossible to find. If Fatshark restricts their ability too much, the Blightstormer will always be in an easy to deal with position that a single ranged character can shoot one crossbow bolt at. At best they'd be useful if the whole team is distracted, but people tend to prioritize the giant green circle with lines that tell you where to shoot when they hear "Spin, SPIN!" If they don't restrict their ability enough, Blightstormers will find some cheese location where it's almost impossible to deal with them, and they'll summon infinite Blightstorms until the Ubersreik 5 (or 4, doesn't matter) are dead. Even the AI has cheesed me before. There's one gate on Trail of Treachery you can technically see through, so the Blightstormer spawned at the maximum distance on the path you're supposed to go through after you finish the final event. But, the gate blocks your bullets if you don't thread the needle between the bars of the gates, so you need to aim between the bars and also on top of the blightstormer a mile away. If that's what an AI does randomly trying to follow the rules, I don't want to imagine the cheesy exploity BS someone spending hundreds of hours of Versus can find.
Just to let you know on your last point, there is an effect for the rat team depending on how many players they have, the more players on team rat, the longer the respawn is, meaning for games like you showed at the end being 2v4 the rat team has a 5 second or so respawn time compared to the usual 15 or so seconds when you have a full team, which ive found works somewhat well.
Grenade spam, at most. At the very most. Otherwise, you're babysitting an Outcast Engineer as he waddles around and announces to the rats that he's ready to get singled out by an assassin. Having an OE means no Ironbreaker, which Verac is saying is very good.
@@RdTrlerlast alpha OE didn't have much issues surviving with meta which was smth like shotgun (mid-range) + fast windup trait on minigun (bosses and everything). OE was best in slot bardin no kidding.
Okay, I think there's a couple of options for the whole health econamy issue. 1: speed or damage based scoring. The team that gets to a point section fastest gets an extra smidge of score. Or getting points for damage if the heroes make it to the end, not if you stop them because that would make a good team stomp, just something for your efforts if the enemy rock your shit and all get to the exit. It should be smaller than the overall score for getting to the end of the segment but a little bit of incentive to go fast and some potential reward for the rats slowing down but not stopping the heroes could make playing the skaven fun and engaging even if they're weaker than the heroes. Plus this lets healing be more available without it invalodating the rats. 2: natural bond baybee. Let the players have health regen but no way to spike their health back up. Healing draughts work almost literally like pills in this instance. The regen and THP give heroes wiggle-room for chip damage and reduce the death of a thousand cuts methods. The lack of burst real HP healing makes it so you don't get someone low and just watch all your work get undone in a flash, just some of it because even if you don't damage them the THP will tick down. But as a hero that hefty chunk of THP offers your real HP a refuge to get some regen in as well as being a burst of raw health for sticky situations. No idea if either or both of these ideas are any good but I think they're worth mentioning. Also gud vidja Berak, informative and fun as always.
From what I have gathered from my own playtime with both L4D2 and V2 (versus). V2 versus is extremely bad compared to L4D2. I remember playing L4D2 versus and just having fun. It was just normal campaign but you could play as the baddies. What I hoped V2 versus would be was what L4D2 was. Instead it felt like we got a competitive mode instead.. with it's own small maps, focused more on try-harding your way to victory. Wish it was just V2 normally (legend or cataclysm) but with players controlling the rats. Would it be balanced? Probably not with fully leveled and geared players. Would it be fun? Probably. All games don't need to be balanced or competitive. Then again, I just played the one alpha. So my opinion might not be super valid. Got bored extremely quickly.
Yeah, if I pvp I'm not usually doing it to win, I'm doing it to have fun making a challenge for the others to work around. If I ever get too big of an advantage it becomes duller. If I get beaten it's more fun than easily winning, so long as the fight was interesting. If I steamroll or get steamrolled it's wasting my time.
I honestly thought that's what it's gonna be. Normal campaign but with player specials. I was really let down after playing the first alpha. I wanna goof around not play some weird pvp competitive mode
Great video, wish more people that demand 'add co op!, add mp!, add versus!' at random popualr games, took a moment to realize what kind of crazy changes it might require. Even just balancing of stuff, on a game made for single player for instance.
Dear Verac. I noticed you have made several height "jokes" about the dwarf - Bardin, be it subtle or not. Your actions get you into the book of grudges. I suggest you to prepare to see a Slayer screaming Grimnir approaching you rapidly with killing intent in the next 50 years
18:58 despite never playing this game whatsoever the way you described it helps me enough to propose some changes, some easier than others in concept: 19:46-21:33 Gutter Runner: Anti-Carry, designed to Cripple the enemy down at the cost of it's own life. As Stated the main issues is for a squishy assasin it fails to be agile due to badly thought out mechanics, like Having the the Dash be a complete charge thing instead of adaptive to the situtation, The Hud should stay but the gameplay should be revolving around it as the Gutter point is as constant threat for existing to mess up plans. Ontop of that a thing(a more generally for the Rats since they should be great at climbing due to claws and lower weight) Mentioned 20:28-20:53 where the wall climbing isn't movement based but stigged animation based and for a squad designed around mobility due to being RATS yeah this needs to go. Back again to the Gutter Runner, It will be able to wall hop, for creative ways to keep Heroes on their toes, climbing walls for all Rats is a quick action Similar to something like genji and Hanzo's Wall climb, though for specifically The Gutter Runner it's faster compared to the other Rats, Dash can be turned into a Wall Jump for greater Agility to counter the high Risk. 21:08 Like I said. 21:29 Which because your a Squishy little problem than can die if they breathe on you is a horrible since it doesn't make you invicible, Invisble, just Harder to see. So Instead, Smoke Bomb: throw a Smog Geranade under you, making you invisible for 4 seconds. Basically no longer locks you in place, the dying fast part is the point, you mess up you get punished however I agree that punishment is too easy to apply, the Gutter should have the invicibly be something the heroes keep interacting with by having to counter it, like earning your reward of not having to worry about the Gutter Runner. So basically the Gutter Runner takes what works about the Hunter from Left4Dead and expands on it with it's look and Smoke bomb, beffiting of an enemy who's about quick a desive high damage at a high risk. 21:35- 22:10 Ratling Gunner: Provide Supressive Fire and Make it harder to Aim. It fails: due to the Fire not being really supressive at all, which then causes a chain reaction at it failing at everything else, as if the fire isn't supressive the Survivors have no reason to care and as result their aim never messes up and inturn Rattling boy falls apart. Warp Barrage: increase the damage to 1 per shot instead of 0.5, this adds up more meaningfully. To counter the lack of interaction of Shielding thing: Rattling applies "Warped" or "Human Poison" stacks every hit reducing Armor by 1%, up to 30 stacks. Upon reaching Maximum Stacks Rattling Gunner Gains "Toxic Joy": Causes him to Fire Quicker and Reload Faster. In addition to since it reduces general protection it can also help teammates, the fire is supressive though counterable only for a certain period, However he still is loud because he's trying to get your attention away from his team while assisting them in damage, he should more tanky than others due to well being an attention grabber just not as much as an actual tank. Ratling Gunner is Suppressive now But dealable if you're prepared for him. 22:10- 22:59 Pact Master: CC an opponent to keep it down, a Anti Carry like the Gutter Runner. Unlike Gutter Runner is even worsely designed by the amount of work needed be ridicolusly Stupid, why is bro Chewing so goddam Loud? is he stupid? Like I get the point of it is to be warning but the warning is the Rats being there not him that just removes the hole point of being a "punishment of Tunnel Vision" like the Gutter is, ontop of that he has NOTHING to counter a mess up, leading to feeling too gimmicky despite it being so rewarding. Pact Master will gain increased movement and increased movement speed when moving tosward Suvivors to make up for having little to no movement options compared to other Rats. Pact master should have Armor to add to that fact just enough to make up for failing to grab someone, Maybe like a Shield it can put up at the cost of not being able to grab for a sec. this way while still distracting it, doesn't completely achieve it's goal so the Surivor still wins out while the Pact can still be effective in a disvantage. 22:59-23:32 WarpFire Thrower: Close Range Area Denial. It's the most balanced out of the Group as it's purpose should be to be situational, sometimes you don't need area denial and can do with more clear hitting and sometimes you need it that how it should be for this kind of character, I'm hearning that basically a Specifc map is the problem, not as much him as a hole so for the Screaming Bell Map specifically he excels TOO well that it's oppressive so for that Specifc one. So the most I can think off is having a Nerf for the characte Specifically on that Map, or have the Map changed to counter this, Probably this one because it's more general but it can risk removing what makes the Map unique. Warpfire Thrower on the Screaming Bell: Remove Pushback and Lower damage by 10%. A thing looking at the lore that is intersting is how Warp works, it mutates what it touches so, though more so here than the Rattling gunner is should have the Push back replaces with a Debuff: WarpFire Thrower Applies "Warping Beauty" on hit: reducing the Targets movement speed and granting Stacks, upon reaching Maximum the Target will be mutated turning one of their abilities into a Random Mutation and increasing their damage taken by 15%. Random Mutaion: gain a tenacle arm than will madly swing in a direction hurting Everyone. Gain a Horse's Hoof, that will kick in a direction damging everyone. Gain a Skunk's anus on your nose, relasing "warp" that can effect everyone. Gain Misaligned hand that shoots Acid Blood, leaving it a Trail on the Ground, Damaging everyone. Gain a Skyvens Head, it screams Random Pharses to annoy everyone around you pushing them away.(yes it includes it's own kind) this part is gonna need alot of looking through though I love the Concept really makes the Horror of the Skaven be seen even greater. Didn't really need to change much outside of a Balance change for the map itself and a concept to better align with the theme the game should be telling. 23:33-24:55 Bile Troll: TANK basically, Distraction and pressure absorber through Defensive, Agressive and health based tools to keep the enemy Pressure and handle it. What the Troll fails is 1. well in normal gameplay the regeration thing could be better as thats the main point about Nurgle Bile Trolls, ontop of that it lacks any form of consumption in it's gameplay 2. in gameplay with a player for a Uprooted Monster Cursed Further by the Dark gods, a beast knowing Nothing but it's incompetent insticts to oblirate and consume, a Giant almost unkillable creature, is encourged to Fight like dumb 10 year old who makes up cheating rules because it can't accept it's flawed. So since it's point is being Destrucvely annoying it forces the enemy to focus on you here what I'll do: Bile Troll constantly regerates it's health. it also has a Stamina Meter, if fully used will cause it to laydown to recover it. Attacks, Blind swing: can charged in different Levels to increase damage and range, at maximum charge it can stun enemy for 1.5 sec. Consumes Stamina. Consume: Bile Troll grabs forward and eats something, Regaining some Stamina and healing itself, Grabbing survivors causes it to bite on them dealing damage and infecting them causing any healing they do, you heal for 20% of it. Uses Stamina Loving Vomit: Vomit in an area infront of you, dealing Damage, Slowing and applying "Warp" on targets hit, and leaving Sewage on the ground the applies the effects. enemies already Infected or Warped Take increased damage and Grant Stamina. Uses Health Charge: prepare before Rushing Forward, dealing damage and knocking anything in your way down. using consumption while Rushing lets you grab mid dash, Blind Swing causes a clap that slows opponents and Loving vomit has you leave the Sewage under you, holding it down instead causes you to charge an stomach explosion.(uses more health). Consumption break: if under 50% or consume 50% of your health if above it increase your regeration highly. Since a boss should feel like you're fighting a full on raid enemy, it should have more attacks, ability to combine them basically feel like a Beefed up Hero both for PVP and PVE. 24:58-26:35 Poison-Wind Globdanier(I'm pissed because of TH-cam Comment errors happen for some reason) Due an Error that happened for some reason I'm too pissed to rewrite what I said(probably should've copied just incase), so instead: Thing designed for Long Ranged Area Denial, Way too powerful for how easy it is to play, due to that lowers interactions and lowers fun. Concept: it cannot use the Keep up with Survivors feature, instead it has an ability thats WAY slower and more letting the enemy know you're catching up, so the option of having to waddle over there is valuable as that one is unexpected which long range surprise is where it excels best, I mean since it is so long you can still be useful getting there. For the weapon, since(I still don't get what the issue with the error is, I need halp :( )
"Left 4 dead has something Vermintide doesn't" Me: "A competent team that could get a game working on actual release, instead of having to make us wait five months to a year for enough patches to make the game actually fun?" "A versus mode!" Me: "Oh, uh. That too, I guess?"
@@DaemonPrince Lmao, yeah! I knew what they're like but I was still so shocked when Darktime came out and it was just... barren. One step forward two steps back with them
I think there’s an important lesson to be remembered when looking at PvP, and that is to not crucify the development team if it’s not that good. Remember that the game was never meant for PvP and was purely a Dopamine factory, the team never really intended to make a PvP mode and that shows through the obscenely OP abilities of the heroes. It’d be warranted if they started to sell it as DLC and it was in this state but because it’s a free add on, give them some slack.
I wonder if different classes for the rats could be dictated by the map played, so warpfire rats could be useful in the open areas and not overpowered in corridors without the devs having to try juggling both. Like maybe on maps like the farm they get a flamethrower longer range but on the indoor maps they get smthn else so they can't just hold down a choke or melt a team all at once
I don't have any thoughts related to Vermintide pvp or balancing it, I just like commenting on these videos because you're one of my favorite TH-cam channels. Woooo
I think giving all the specials a default melee to use whenever their power isn’t available would be a nice change (and would make it so you could do literally anything about skeletons)
My friends and I were so excited to play this, we all get in a group and finally get a game going. I end up getting stuck with no way out. Next game we all get back together, join a game and a random player playing as the rat that hangs you, stuck me out of bounds on purpose multiple times. We never played since.
I like that as Gutter Runner and Ratling Gunner you need to charge up the pounce/ratling gun while globadier can just left click or hold it so you can see where it will land before releasing the button.
my version of versus mode would be a 2team vermintide. somekind of chaotic black mirror versions of the Ubersreik 5 vs the OG. all running the gauntlet to get the magic gizmo and trying to trip the competition.
The main thing that concerns me is the player skill level. Obviously the sweats and tryhards are going to dunk on rat players because they've been playing since launch while new players who will want to chill with their friends will get dunked on by tryhard humans and tryhard rats. I, myself, am casual scum so I am not looking forward to this addition to the game.
so far, it's a bit of both but more rat sided as players who aren't good at V2 playing as heroes are 9/10 getting completely dumpstered withing 5-10 minutes of a round and ratside dealing so much damage is just getting out of hand in balance. Only time the 1/10 is a thing is when the other team arent good at the game either but even then ratside usually pulls out on the rounds and the teams never make it to the end.
thats also my fear , this could very easily become like the Versus of L4D2 which is bassicaly unplayable because of these type of peoples and they will kick you
Well, I kinda understand your point, but the usual normal modes wont dissapear anywhere. The other guy in the comments suggested the idea of making rats weaker, like in normal modes, because now rats are overtuned, but so that players can join as rats in normal modes. It sounds fun to me. A bit like Resident evil 6 zombie mode, if you know about that
@@legionerer I think that by "I am not looking forward to this addition to the game" they just mean they aren't excited, not that they are against the gamemode.
This video makes me reconsider if I want Verses in Darktide. Would love to play a sniper and dome someone across the map... But don't want to spawn and then instantly get gunned down either
Iron Breaker in general with his passive of not take damage every few seconds is completely broken, especially if you get the talent that knocks enemies back that goes with it when the passive goes down. It completely negates Gutter Runners, Pack Masters, and Life Leeches. That's 3 of your specials that will straight up be ineffective if the dwarf can keep the passive up.
A fringe issue (which became a bigger one near the end of the test) Is melee going through walls, at first it's an occasional annoyance for the rats, where heroes could kill you through walls, a bit frustrating but not crazy, I'd personally say remove it because it just doesn't feel fair (
First time seeing this channel, the feed blesses me this day. Extremely entertaining video! With all the RPG mechanics, it'd be kinda neat if they did the same thing but for the rats; not the gear part, but the passives and such. Maybe change up the look of your rat depending on which clan you're from
when i played, i didnt even know it was a possibility to call ur own horde to help you as rats, but they should let you decide which horde you want to call. like possible a few chaos warriors to help you out
I wonder if a better solution to those weapons and talents would be giving rats some talents as well. Also, I really want them to add the Blightstormer to the Versus mode.
Balance feels simple to me: players get ultimate power but limited respawns, rats get... less than ultimate power but infinite and near immediate respawns. After all, it's called a "vermintide".
In my opinion, rats may and should be strong because both teams will be playing them. It's not even matter if attackers survive to the last checkpoint, the points system is good enough for win or lose conditioning.
"Vermintide players don't have friends" man that stung... My friends are afraid of rat. they do not enjoy excessive rat. They do not enjoy the dwarven singing.
They should definitely make balance changes exclusive for the versus mode. For that Globadere bs. They should make it so dealing damage disables ghosting for 10 seconds for all rats except the disablers. While for the gas rat specifically they should have a little game where every second out of line of sight decreases reload speed by 10% up to 50% (staying in line of sight reverses this every second), while adding another flat 50% if ghosting or within ghosting range. That should significantly slow down the pressure from gas-rats that don't put themselves at any risk.
Me and my friends were running Mercenary and Unchained with extra temporary hp talents on ult, and we slaughtered enemy teams because we were basically immune to chip damage as a result. Run that with a Handmaiden and Ironbreaker or Warrior Priest and you have a recipe for an absolutely untouchable team.
Honestly Id love it if Fatshark made a "PvP skill tree" for the characters for you to rank up with and are balanced entirely around PvP, Not just for the ubersreik 5 but for the rats too
I tried versus for the first time in the latest test, and I've never played L4D2. They removed that class idea and exactly what you predicted happened, my friends spend minutes preparing all their talents, but then a bug happened and we got placed on opposite teams, and the randos stole the classes, so my friends all had to play talentless. It's still very much a war of attrition with hordes chipping away at players. Most of the games I had were steamrolls, and I think you are right that being more generous with the healing but giving specials more stopping power could help with that feeling. While playing as the rats were novel, all of them felt stiff and janky. Climbing still feels bad. It makes me yearn for when I played Nosgoth, with how fun it was to climb up buildings. Basically none of my friends liked the mode, I gave it a good amount of hours, but all my friends gave up on it pretty immediately and only gave it one try. The fact that we never got to play as a full stack because the matchmaker split us onto opposite teams definitely soured the experience. It was a nice novelty while it lasted, I do not think this mode will become a mainstay in my vermintide playing friend group unless they make some more big changes.
There are two other options they could have done. 1. Remove special abilities from all heroes, so no OP weapons or trinkets, or skills, incentivizing cooperative play. (Serious, imagine if a hunter jumped on a survivor and they're both very far away, but one player had an ability that would just rain fire from the sky to knock the hunter off. It wouldn't be fun.) 2. (I prefer this one) Give rat players their own abilities and trinkets, allowing for people to only matchmake in a rough power scale of hero players, so being slightly above or below their power would make you be able to play with them in public matches. And private matches could allow an option to not have and sort of limits for power, allowing friends to just mess about in their own lobby.
Fatahark's quality of seal is to ensure their games REAAAALLY and i mean REAAAAALLY stretch what the meaning of LIVE SERVICE IS to a game. if ya get content within 10 years, its no problem!
I'd say; get rid of the survivors class abilities, make hordes of unplayable vermen (aka humanoid rats) more like distractions, re-design all the levels, put in crawl spaces only Vermen can use, add grapple mechanics to playable vermen, GIVE PLAYABLE VERMEN CLASS PERKS AND ITEMS THAT AFFECT HORDES AND THE PLAYABLE VERMEN. Vermen - impromptu play on the word - Mermen (or otherwise)
i feel like giving the rats different classes than basically hunter and smoker would be a good start. like, the players already get powerful classes in the base game, give them powerful classes as rats too. the flamethrower is a good start, that one is good, but they should also get tanky options, for example it could be a rat that actually wears armor and uses a shield, or a rat that can build structures and prevent the player's progression while giving them a defensive advantage- it doesn't need to be anything special too, a rampart that impedes survivors and allows a rat push would be fantastic. a summoner rat that revives dead rats and summons new ones from the ground would be great for keeping the fight alive. in this way, the players don't just feel like they're playing a lowly rat, they're actually playing one the rare trained and developed rats that can actually measure up to humans.
Here's another reason why people aren't hyped about Vs mode. Some people just don't like PvP. They're not here to challenge themselves, they're here to mow through wave upon wave of enemies and not to engage their brain, and a co-op horde game is one of the best ways to do that with a couple of friends.
Fan from Brazil here and...yeah, our government is a sham...I wouldn't be surprised if what you said actually happened next week to be honest Verac 😅. Good video tho can't wait for the next one 👍🏻
if bandages didn't take you off death's door but possibly took 1.5x to 2x as long if you're applying them to yourself might be the ticket. Left 4 Dead made it so it's more efficient for another survivor to heal you, but it takes *2* guns out of play temporarily. That might be the solution here.
this isnt true, L4D another survivor healing you with a medkit and healing yourself is the same speed, the medkit is fine where it is right now in vs as it basically works like vanilla.
If I were to make the Versus mode, first off I would design new generic characters for the Empire team that don't have any special abilities, and new customizable Boss classes for the rats. How it would work is that instead of finding people for revives, the Empire team would instead have 'Reinforcements' upon being completely wiped. The MVP would get to play as one of the Ubersreik 5, while the others get to change class as they desire. As for the Rat team, whoever is the MVP continues respawns as the Boss class; however points earned while playing as the Boss class don't count toward the next round of respawns, meaning the Boss class will change hands.
The most reasonable solution for versus would be to start from the bottom and add ten custom versus tailored abilities per class. for both scaven and good guys
There is no problem. Vermintide 2 issue is 1. No Orcs/Goblins(we have a karazk dlc quest but No orcs or goblins. Wtf) 2. No other chaos faction but Nurgle 3. No high elf class to play(no swordmaster? Lions Guard? Elf mage? Wtf) 4. No vampire lords but a vampire lords quest dlc exists? What lmfao 5. No dark elf faction 6. Skaven vermintide but ZERO jungle DLC with LIZARD MEN???? do you just hate the WH fantasy fans? 7. No tomb kings or zombie pirates faction I mean, how the heck we have dark tide out but still no actual expansions that go into other factions besides beastmen? Why are the dev’s so incompetent to not focus on adding in the high elves as a playable class or adding in new areas like the jungles of the lizard men(THE MAIN enemies of the skaven) or the VAMPIRE LORDS when we got a necromancer class now! Its the most infuriating thing to experience
Here's an idea... Star Wars Battlefront. Not the EA one, the old one. Sooooo... Heros play as normal. But, Rats get to play as specials, sometimes, but for the rest of the time they're normal enemies. You pick your team, Heroes play as normal through the whole scenario with the Rats only objective being to stop them. Sure they're way weaker than the Heroes, but they're endless. They can respawn constantly.
Everyone knew Versus would be bad, if the human team used the Ubersreik 5 with all their OP builds, and rats got no builds of their own. But, rather than accept that it just was never to be, and make alternative normal soldiers to balance the mode around, or make unique hero rats, they buffed and nerfed what already existed, and now nobody is happy.
I think the Globe bois will be fine if they get rid of the "catch up to heroes" ability. Outrunning the rats should be a viable strategy for the hero side so that faster, single-target rats have a niche to control speedrunners who separate.
I think two things to keep in mind is that 1, the Pactsworn have had a very neutered roster so far. A blightstormer or Minotaur or Chaos Spawn will definitely be able to offset the fact that the heroes have strong abilities. And 2, it's designed to be asymetrical pvp. Rat lives are expendable, it's fine if you only do a little chip damage before getting insta-gibbed, you get another 15 lives throughout the level to go again and the respawn is only like 5 seconds. Survivors being able to oneshot rats with handguns etc. is only a problem if Fatshark puts too plentiful ammo in the level. L4D had a sniper rifle and full auto rifles, if versus worked there it can work in V2 too. But Fatshark do have to remember that it's a horde game. In the earliest playtests there were far too few normal roaming and horde enemies and it was far too easy for the heroes because of it. The heroes need to be threatened and distracted by normal enemies for the specials to work, but in the early playtests Fatshark had a philosophy of "We want the rat players to be the threat to the heroes" - which doesn't really work when you can ignore five rats hitting you to whip out your handgun to shoot a special and barely take any damage for it.
I think a neat way to balance it would be to make players play a "stock" loadout. Choose your melee and ranged, no special stats, just regular power level, and keep talents off, or at least the last few "op" rows. That way teams need to coordinate
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Need more rats
this video is garbage because your voice is loud and the music is barely audible
Genuinely "immeasurably complex" this time around.
Hedge breaking out into rivers of sweat.
@@BigVorst genuinely shocking how this guy wasn't fired 5 times already.
His job as a CM has only ever made the community more angry at Fatshark. The Darktide kerfuffle has only been the recent one. It's been this way since Verm 1.
@@TaRAAASHBAGSdumb cm's don't help but fatshark are digging their own graves just fine. Darktide has been a dumpster fire since I started in beta, nowadays I pop in every few months and the only worthwhile thing they did for the game was the talent trees and a couple maps. Iunno maybe that's their tactic, keep the latest game in such a shit state players will jump on their previous game
ive been playing vermintide since the launch of VT1, and I never once thought a versus mode would work particularly well with vermintide's format. The entire game, especially in 2, is balanced around your team's ability to remove immediate threats like specials as quickly as possible. It was never going to be fun getting oneshot by snipey crossbows or rifles.
the idea they are going towards is more work and not the direction I would want tbh, the game would have done better with something like an invasion mode and instead let players who want to play rats just quickplay into games with people who have enabled it during a game of chaos waste or Legend/cata difficulty. Keep the balance on heroes as they are supposed to be heros not survivors, this also assures that the higher end playerbase can play on the difficulty they want with the orange/red gear they have and lets players play rats exclusively.
To the very least make that a gamemode because the vs they are making isnt going to last very long imo, ignoring bugs the balance is being tailored to rats so far in the playtest with Grain being the most survivor sided which isnt saying much since they still barely win at all with how much damage rats are doing now.
Agreed, just looking at this game it seems abso-fricking-lutly not meant to be versus. It was meant to be 'you as a group against a horde of mooks and some bosses' and balance for this is likely going to be such a nightmare the game might feel completely different by the time ti is done. I do hope they keep both modes separate (balance wise) at the very least. Otherwise not only they might screw the pooch on the pvp but also annoy the pve folks.
How does one actually realistically destroy a rat wheel with a smoothbore pistol
Pretty much exactly the same here, been playing since vt1 snd never really expected a vs mode or for it to work at all. It MIGHT of had a chance in 1 since the gameplay is far simpler and more in line with its L4D connections, but making a balanced VS mode in Vt2 seems like a sysyphian undertaking with all the classes, weapons, trinkets, etc.
VT1 was already heavily balanced in favour of the heroes and VT2 just made them even more overpowered. The game was clearly never designed with Versus even as a back of the mind consideration, and any attempt to warp the game into being balanced will always make it feel bad to play. I really agree with what @DaemonPrince was saying that this would work better as a kind of invasion mode where the pactsworn players accept the fundamental fact that they're going to be much weaker than the heroes and this is not a balanced game, and just want to have fun screwing with players.
If nothing else, Versus mode really lets people get the true Skaven Experience(TM) of a battlefield just turning into a mess of poison gas and fire everywhere.
Lore accurate Skaven experience of 2 IQ and friendly fire. (I haven’t played yet, do rats have friendly fire)
@@FourheadWeapon I don't know about in Versus, but the specials totally do in the main game. If you do a bit of manuvering, you can make Ratling guns kill their allies.
Don't forget the packmaster tactic of grappling heroes off the cliffs for a sacrificial instakill. Peak rat tactics.
@@FourheadWeaponas far as I remember, they don't in Versus... But don't quote me on that, I played some time ago
I mean, I found that to be really fun. I think people complaining are in sweat mode and I hope Fatshark doesn't fine tune the fun out of the mode. It would suck for it to just turn into another highly competitive mode.
Monster Girl Quest review when?
give the people what they want verac
Archangel Mariel supremacy
We demand to be heard
I second this
Berac, gib.
The specials also didn't have movement animations that cater to player input. In fact i'm pretty sure none of the specials had any strafing animations at all
Yeah, and it's very stupid, especially with somethin like ratling gun firing and jumping at the same time
I love how easy it is to see how your brain works, you're trying to stream on every different day of the week, trying out new games, Versus comes out for Vermintide, you stream it, disappear, now this. It's funny, and it's always good to see you talking about funne rats.
Finally! A video to fulfill my *RAT DESIRE*
the original playtest there was a map with alot of ledges.... the packmaster could grab a player, jump off the ledge, and take the player with them killing them instantly
Having played every versus tests, It's interesting to see how the rats have evolved; On the first alpha test (C.A.T), the Warpfire thrower would usually die just by being stared at. And thing got comically bad for the heroes before the R.A.T change to rat spawn chances, where there was no restriction on the rat type; So you could easily get 4 poison wind globadier, and it was either extremely funny if you were the rat, and extremely frustrating as the Ubersreik 5; Funnily enough, there also was a lot more healing around.
its funny seeing them have such a l4d inspired game but not take any pages out of their book. I dont know how they didnt see multiple of the same special spawning being maybe overpowered when l4d1 had that problem lmao. If some of their devs played left 4 dead versus more they'd get it right the first time.
They should make the healing pot be the pills for THP, and the medkit remain as it is, maybe make it take longer to heal, but the amount would be the same.
@@thickrebar2634 because left 4 dead gameplay is bare bones and you dont have heroes with super powers, its all humans with guns that have a push button, any special in left4dead is a threat because you are very weak alone, but you can deal with any special threat in vermintide alone because the characters are way stronger, you got weapons that deal better with certain threats better than others, you got special abilities to force enemies to back away and other things, i could snipe any special down in 1 sec in vermintide while in l4d i could never actually kill specials super fast because the weapons were never extremely strong and i could not have a build to make them stronger
@@bleeem I was making a specific point and you didnt give me any reason why what I said might be wrong. Of course different things will apply and and different things wont. But multiple specials of the same type in l4d1 was broken and is the same in vermintide versus so that is a page they couldve taken out.
@@thickrebar2634 its easier said then done the specials in Vermintide die in one shoot from most of the weapons while the specials in L4D all had chunky health pools
Here's hoping they get versus mode looking good and decent in a few months or year or something. I need to fulfill my RAT DESIRES
🐀
Cease you heretical worshipping ways
Rats, Rats, We’re the Rats
We hunt at night, we stalk at night.
We're the rats @@dogdog357
@@dogdog357 I'm the giant rat that makes all of the rules!
@@yujin_sumeragi you skipped a part '^'
no I didn't, the last part comes after this one, but you actually misremembered yours: it's "we prey at night, we stalk at night", not "we hunt at night" 😜
you give a man a fish you satisfy his hunger you give a man a rat you satisfy his rat desire,
Vermintide is great for clicking on rats and watching them explode in first person melee combat. Adding other players to the rat horde never seemed like a good idea to me. It still doesn't, and because it's Fatshart I kind of knew it was going to be an uphill battle to being even close to good.
I think that while FS has a long record of releasing stuff too early they also have a decent record of getting things right eventually. And then, when they've tinkered with everything for a year, then the games is amazing. I couldn't believe the grognards when they said how terrible everything but the core gameplay loop had once been in VT1 when I joined in very late in the game's life cycle. I've played V2 since the last beta before release and I suddenly saw what they had meant. And then FS got it together and V2 was an amazing game. Sure, they screwed up with Weaves, but Chaos Wastes great. They also screwed up with Versus announcement and such, but from what I've played in the alpha tests, it's looking to be a lot of fun. Sure, you get picked off fast as rats, but I don't even mind. It's fun watching the Ubersreik Five smashing rats, even if you're a rat IMO.
You are wrong, simple as that.
Nah, game mode is fun. Sorry you can't sweat over it.
Biggest cope in this comment section. Replies here have explained everything right.
@@damsen978 explained so much that it literally explains nothing. I’ve beaten this game on Cata and it’s special brand of bullshit, and it’s pretty obvious to anyone who isn’t a mouth breather that multiplayer versus wasn’t the intended game play. Which is why it feels awkward as a rat player.
But I’m sure you being such an expert already knew that.
I cant believe that one packmaster went "Witness me!" only to die immediately
Rats. But rats is you.
ANDIMGONNATELLYOUWHYYYYY
alright who did the art for the little cute rats barfing rats, i need to see them in glorious fullness.
I think the Heroes really should feel insane, and the Pactsworn should be more... varied. Maybe its just me, but I'm not playing Skaven to be competitive - I'm playing Skaven because I want to commit warcrimes and have fun doing it. Tuning the player-controlled Pactsworn to have cooldowns/limits related to their potency is a really simple fix that would help with a lot of issues. Globadier too strong? Lower his initial damage with higher scaling over time the longer you're in the gas, encouraging teamplay with immobalizers. Pact master getting bodied? Give him a minor health buff, give him a stealth ability you can activate to shut him up so he can surprise you, and boom, instant usage. Gutter runner feels too sluggish? Double his movement speed. Ratling gunner dealing too little damage? Ramp it up the lower his ammo is because warpstone.
I don't think anyone playing Pactsworn should expect a fair fight at all, nor the Heroes. The Ubersreik Five should be strong, and the Pactsworn should feel weak, but they have allies who cover for said weaknesses. The Heroes need to succeed every single encounter they come across to score, but the Pactsworn only need one good opportunity to win.
If you want a large-scale rework that could be good, though, giving Pactsworn the ability to control when hordes spawn and things like that (perhaps basing intensity on frequency of spawns/location) could help.
So you are sayinfg basically the rats should be more of a horde than a 'special ops' team like the human side is. Perhaps more of a support to the mook rats. I like the way you mention balancing the gas, it'd make sense. Seems the ability is meant more for denial and chaos than raw damage. So having scaling damage that begins small but raises makes more sense, to 'flush people out of small areas, or try to drive them into the open ofr other rats to fight'. Perhaps it's ok if the rats are more fragile, because there are many of them. As you say, 'rat team needs to get lucky once, the humans need to survive the ordeal' The 'disable guy' is something I feel makes sense, just... make him not be screaming, maybe make it a cooldown. Make the guy meant to suppress and make ranged damage actually do more damage. Maybe penetrate shielding a bit?. Cause stacking DoT the more they get shot in a short while because warpstone?
"I'm not playing skaven to be competitive - i'm playing skaven because i want to commit warcrimes and have fun doing it"
Is the best summary of why i play skaven in age of Sigmar. (and hopefully vermintide at some point)
I simply seek to sate my rat desire.
I missed out on playing the latest test, but one of my suggestions after the early ones was giving the Pactsworn the ability to earn reinforcements. Spawning a patrol at a choke point would be a game changer... though the reason I made this suggestion was because of a patrol that spawned for us during one rat round that just plain refused to move out of the room they appeared in.
Yeah, man, I agree with you! They shouldn't be equal in terms of strenth! Your suggestions are also pretty interesting, about the balance. Personally, I didn't feel that ratling gun is too weak, but I haven't play much versus. But packmaster is stupidly weak and globadier is really op, they really need to change that. Oh, and a troll. Also very unfun to play against, if you don't have grail knight/bounty hunter
Idea for the Pact Master, give them a little bell do they can target specific heroes with some plague rats who are following them.
Make it like the bile zombie's effect in l4d2, so nearby skaven will also turn to attack that specific hero for a short time.
If the Pact Master dies, the plague rats go do their normal thing.
It's like the Necromancer, but as a skaven.
honestly it would be kinda cool if they gave the rattas their own skill trees and such
Fatahark isnt very good about giving the people what they want. Case in point: Darktide came out *how long* ago? And still no helgun for the veteran.
At a certain point they need to stop updating two IP’s at the same time and dig their feet in on one of them, because CLEARLY getting an update going for both games takes longer than studios do at half their team size at how long it takes for Fatshark to get one out for one of them.
No female Ogryn or big dumb hammer for Ogryn either
Or announcement for the playstation bros.
The model is RIGHT THERE FATSHARK. The Gunner uses it.
Gib our fucking Helgun.
I disagree with you
Never seen a video from you before. Suddenly you’re showing up in my recommended and I am loving the format. Both informative and chock full of memes. Keep it up!
It’s kinda fucked that I’m such a Skaven player that every single time you said “rat” I echoed “rat.” We are legion.
YOOOOOOO NEW VERAC VIDEO LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Remember people just like the skaven there is no such thing as VS mode
Imagine my surprise when, while listening to this video in the background while playing Darktide, I hear mention of “space Vermintide” and bemusedly glance over at my phone only to see a very familiar clip! When I started using the Xbox One’s DVR feature to document game highlights and glitches all those years ago, I never thought they’d end up being used in a video essay to highlight the rocky state of Vermintide 2 on launch. That seriously made my day. XD
Jonfon1 who made a kind of character select screen for vs some time ago gave the pactsworn a bunch of passive/active skills to flesh them out. Examples where the pactmaster having a ratogre that he could command but once he died the beast would go on a rampage a chaos warrior gathering marauders around them and having a sort of lesser hoard or plague monks being immune to poison wind globe's and having damage resistance. I think having stuff like that would maybe no balance it properly but make it fun play.
Fun should be prioritized over balance. If balance swings in favor of one side, that's not even a problem, seeing as literally everyone that match will get their chance. If rats are broken but fun, cool, suffer them as survivors for a short time and then it's your turn to bully them, and vice versa.
@@PANCAKEMINEZZ It just wont work like that. In left 4 dead fashion it will be a tryhard rage fueled mode as that is how left 4 dead versus is. Most people wont enjoy poor balance.
@@thickrebar2634
Idk, Cata's general playerbase is very chill and doesn't care about 'get gudding' even though the difficulty is harder than the rage fueled toxic minefield that is Legend.
@@PANCAKEMINEZZ If half the playtime is not fun people are just going to quit as soon as the novelty of the OP side wears off. Fun and balance aren't competing, outside of strict tournament rules, balance is pursued almost entirely for the purpose of making a game fun.
Why would they third person you when you climb? Climbing and crawling around in first person is so satisfying
Maybe they had some animation problems/decided to save time? Idk😄
2:50 JDON MY SOUL
A great rat spotted!
HOLD IT! People negative bombed Wind of Magic because they hid a difficulty level behind a paywall. Cataclysm is fun, as is the new map with it, and sure, Weaves cannot be everyone's jam, but it is objectively a good game mode too, with a still active, and might I add, filled with the biggest pros playerbase! Doing 120-160 ranked levels takes insane skills, if you are confident on chaos wastes cata, multiply it with 10, then you get the skill ceiling for highest bracket on ranked weaves!
Blightstormers seem like the kind of player controlled enemy that'd either be terrible or game breakingly overpowered, with an in-between that'd be impossible to find.
If Fatshark restricts their ability too much, the Blightstormer will always be in an easy to deal with position that a single ranged character can shoot one crossbow bolt at. At best they'd be useful if the whole team is distracted, but people tend to prioritize the giant green circle with lines that tell you where to shoot when they hear "Spin, SPIN!" If they don't restrict their ability enough, Blightstormers will find some cheese location where it's almost impossible to deal with them, and they'll summon infinite Blightstorms until the Ubersreik 5 (or 4, doesn't matter) are dead.
Even the AI has cheesed me before. There's one gate on Trail of Treachery you can technically see through, so the Blightstormer spawned at the maximum distance on the path you're supposed to go through after you finish the final event. But, the gate blocks your bullets if you don't thread the needle between the bars of the gates, so you need to aim between the bars and also on top of the blightstormer a mile away. If that's what an AI does randomly trying to follow the rules, I don't want to imagine the cheesy exploity BS someone spending hundreds of hours of Versus can find.
Liked to give Kruber energy 🙏
Great vid, Verac! Happy to see you play some Vermintide again :)
Just to let you know on your last point, there is an effect for the rat team depending on how many players they have, the more players on team rat, the longer the respawn is, meaning for games like you showed at the end being 2v4 the rat team has a 5 second or so respawn time compared to the usual 15 or so seconds when you have a full team, which ive found works somewhat well.
HE IS THE RAT THAT MAKES ALLLLLL OF THE DA RULEZ
The minigun Bardin will have to be either cancelled or nerfed into the ground. Any of you who played one game with, or as, minigun Bardin know why.
Grenade spam, at most. At the very most. Otherwise, you're babysitting an Outcast Engineer as he waddles around and announces to the rats that he's ready to get singled out by an assassin. Having an OE means no Ironbreaker, which Verac is saying is very good.
@@RdTrlerlast alpha OE didn't have much issues surviving with meta which was smth like shotgun (mid-range) + fast windup trait on minigun (bosses and everything). OE was best in slot bardin no kidding.
Okay, I think there's a couple of options for the whole health econamy issue.
1: speed or damage based scoring. The team that gets to a point section fastest gets an extra smidge of score. Or getting points for damage if the heroes make it to the end, not if you stop them because that would make a good team stomp, just something for your efforts if the enemy rock your shit and all get to the exit. It should be smaller than the overall score for getting to the end of the segment but a little bit of incentive to go fast and some potential reward for the rats slowing down but not stopping the heroes could make playing the skaven fun and engaging even if they're weaker than the heroes. Plus this lets healing be more available without it invalodating the rats.
2: natural bond baybee. Let the players have health regen but no way to spike their health back up. Healing draughts work almost literally like pills in this instance. The regen and THP give heroes wiggle-room for chip damage and reduce the death of a thousand cuts methods. The lack of burst real HP healing makes it so you don't get someone low and just watch all your work get undone in a flash, just some of it because even if you don't damage them the THP will tick down. But as a hero that hefty chunk of THP offers your real HP a refuge to get some regen in as well as being a burst of raw health for sticky situations.
No idea if either or both of these ideas are any good but I think they're worth mentioning. Also gud vidja Berak, informative and fun as always.
YES! This is the best Vermintide review I've seen, simple, to-the-point, and covers it all with just the right amount of detail. 10/10
From what I have gathered from my own playtime with both L4D2 and V2 (versus). V2 versus is extremely bad compared to L4D2. I remember playing L4D2 versus and just having fun. It was just normal campaign but you could play as the baddies. What I hoped V2 versus would be was what L4D2 was. Instead it felt like we got a competitive mode instead.. with it's own small maps, focused more on try-harding your way to victory. Wish it was just V2 normally (legend or cataclysm) but with players controlling the rats.
Would it be balanced? Probably not with fully leveled and geared players.
Would it be fun? Probably. All games don't need to be balanced or competitive.
Then again, I just played the one alpha. So my opinion might not be super valid. Got bored extremely quickly.
Yeah, if I pvp I'm not usually doing it to win, I'm doing it to have fun making a challenge for the others to work around. If I ever get too big of an advantage it becomes duller. If I get beaten it's more fun than easily winning, so long as the fight was interesting. If I steamroll or get steamrolled it's wasting my time.
I honestly thought that's what it's gonna be. Normal campaign but with player specials.
I was really let down after playing the first alpha.
I wanna goof around not play some weird pvp competitive mode
Great video, wish more people that demand 'add co op!, add mp!, add versus!' at random popualr games, took a moment to realize what kind of crazy changes it might require. Even just balancing of stuff, on a game made for single player for instance.
Berac I thank you for makes the ad a section that I can skip
Dear Verac. I noticed you have made several height "jokes" about the dwarf - Bardin, be it subtle or not. Your actions get you into the book of grudges. I suggest you to prepare to see a Slayer screaming Grimnir approaching you rapidly with killing intent in the next 50 years
18:58 despite never playing this game whatsoever the way you described it helps me enough to propose some changes, some easier than others in concept:
19:46-21:33 Gutter Runner: Anti-Carry, designed to Cripple the enemy down at the cost of it's own life.
As Stated the main issues is for a squishy assasin it fails to be agile due to badly thought out mechanics, like Having the the Dash be a complete charge thing instead of adaptive to the situtation, The Hud should stay but the gameplay should be revolving around it as the Gutter point is as constant threat for existing to mess up plans.
Ontop of that a thing(a more generally for the Rats since they should be great at climbing due to claws and lower weight) Mentioned 20:28-20:53 where the wall climbing isn't movement based but stigged animation based and for a squad designed around mobility due to being RATS yeah this needs to go.
Back again to the Gutter Runner, It will be able to wall hop, for creative ways to keep Heroes on their toes, climbing walls for all Rats is a quick action Similar to something like genji and Hanzo's Wall climb, though for specifically The Gutter Runner it's faster compared to the other Rats, Dash can be turned into a Wall Jump for greater Agility to counter the high Risk.
21:08 Like I said.
21:29 Which because your a Squishy little problem than can die if they breathe on you is a horrible since it doesn't make you invicible, Invisble, just Harder to see.
So Instead, Smoke Bomb: throw a Smog Geranade under you, making you invisible for 4 seconds.
Basically no longer locks you in place, the dying fast part is the point, you mess up you get punished however I agree that punishment is too easy to apply, the Gutter should have the invicibly be something the heroes keep interacting with by having to counter it, like earning your reward of not having to worry about the Gutter Runner.
So basically the Gutter Runner takes what works about the Hunter from Left4Dead and expands on it with it's look and Smoke bomb, beffiting of an enemy who's about quick a desive high damage at a high risk.
21:35- 22:10 Ratling Gunner: Provide Supressive Fire and Make it harder to Aim. It fails: due to the Fire not being really supressive at all, which then causes a chain reaction at it failing at everything else, as if the fire isn't supressive the Survivors have no reason to care and as result their aim never messes up and inturn Rattling boy falls apart.
Warp Barrage: increase the damage to 1 per shot instead of 0.5, this adds up more meaningfully.
To counter the lack of interaction of Shielding thing: Rattling applies "Warped" or "Human Poison" stacks every hit reducing Armor by 1%, up to 30 stacks. Upon reaching Maximum Stacks Rattling Gunner Gains "Toxic Joy": Causes him to Fire Quicker and Reload Faster.
In addition to since it reduces general protection it can also help teammates, the fire is supressive though counterable only for a certain period, However he still is loud because he's trying to get your attention away from his team while assisting them in damage, he should more tanky than others due to well being an attention grabber just not as much as an actual tank.
Ratling Gunner is Suppressive now But dealable if you're prepared for him.
22:10- 22:59 Pact Master: CC an opponent to keep it down, a Anti Carry like the Gutter Runner.
Unlike Gutter Runner is even worsely designed by the amount of work needed be ridicolusly Stupid, why is bro Chewing so goddam Loud? is he stupid? Like I get the point of it is to be warning but the warning is the Rats being there not him that just removes the hole point of being a "punishment of Tunnel Vision" like the Gutter is, ontop of that he has NOTHING to counter a mess up, leading to feeling too gimmicky despite it being so rewarding.
Pact Master will gain increased movement and increased movement speed when moving tosward Suvivors to make up for having little to no movement options compared to other Rats.
Pact master should have Armor to add to that fact just enough to make up for failing to grab someone, Maybe like a Shield it can put up at the cost of not being able to grab for a sec.
this way while still distracting it, doesn't completely achieve it's goal so the Surivor still wins out while the Pact can still be effective in a disvantage.
22:59-23:32 WarpFire Thrower: Close Range Area Denial.
It's the most balanced out of the Group as it's purpose should be to be situational, sometimes you don't need area denial and can do with more clear hitting and sometimes you need it that how it should be for this kind of character, I'm hearning that basically a Specifc map is the problem, not as much him as a hole so for the Screaming Bell Map specifically he excels TOO well that it's oppressive so for that Specifc one.
So the most I can think off is having a Nerf for the characte Specifically on that Map, or have the Map changed to counter this, Probably this one because it's more general but it can risk removing what makes the Map unique.
Warpfire Thrower on the Screaming Bell: Remove Pushback and Lower damage by 10%.
A thing looking at the lore that is intersting is how Warp works, it mutates what it touches so, though more so here than the Rattling gunner is should have the Push back replaces with a Debuff:
WarpFire Thrower Applies "Warping Beauty" on hit: reducing the Targets movement speed and granting Stacks, upon reaching Maximum the Target will be mutated turning one of their abilities into a Random Mutation and increasing their damage taken by 15%.
Random Mutaion: gain a tenacle arm than will madly swing in a direction hurting Everyone.
Gain a Horse's Hoof, that will kick in a direction damging everyone.
Gain a Skunk's anus on your nose, relasing "warp" that can effect everyone.
Gain Misaligned hand that shoots Acid Blood, leaving it a Trail on the Ground, Damaging everyone.
Gain a Skyvens Head, it screams Random Pharses to annoy everyone around you pushing them away.(yes it includes it's own kind)
this part is gonna need alot of looking through though I love the Concept really makes the Horror of the Skaven be seen even greater.
Didn't really need to change much outside of a Balance change for the map itself and a concept to better align with the theme the game should be telling.
23:33-24:55 Bile Troll: TANK basically, Distraction and pressure absorber through Defensive, Agressive and health based tools to keep the enemy Pressure and handle it.
What the Troll fails is 1. well in normal gameplay the regeration thing could be better as thats the main point about Nurgle Bile Trolls, ontop of that it lacks any form of consumption in it's gameplay 2. in gameplay with a player for a Uprooted Monster Cursed Further by the Dark gods, a beast knowing Nothing but it's incompetent insticts to oblirate and consume, a Giant almost unkillable creature, is encourged to Fight like dumb 10 year old who makes up cheating rules because it can't accept it's flawed.
So since it's point is being Destrucvely annoying it forces the enemy to focus on you here what I'll do:
Bile Troll constantly regerates it's health.
it also has a Stamina Meter, if fully used will cause it to laydown to recover it.
Attacks, Blind swing: can charged in different Levels to increase damage and range, at maximum charge it can stun enemy for 1.5 sec. Consumes Stamina.
Consume: Bile Troll grabs forward and eats something, Regaining some Stamina and healing itself, Grabbing survivors causes it to bite on them dealing damage and infecting them causing any healing they do, you heal for 20% of it. Uses Stamina
Loving Vomit: Vomit in an area infront of you, dealing Damage, Slowing and applying "Warp" on targets hit, and leaving Sewage on the ground the applies the effects.
enemies already Infected or Warped Take increased damage and Grant Stamina. Uses Health
Charge: prepare before Rushing Forward, dealing damage and knocking anything in your way down. using consumption while Rushing lets you grab mid dash, Blind Swing causes a clap that slows opponents and Loving vomit has you leave the Sewage under you, holding it down instead causes you to charge an stomach explosion.(uses more health).
Consumption break: if under 50% or consume 50% of your health if above it increase your regeration highly.
Since a boss should feel like you're fighting a full on raid enemy, it should have more attacks, ability to combine them basically feel like a Beefed up Hero both for PVP and PVE.
24:58-26:35 Poison-Wind Globdanier(I'm pissed because of TH-cam Comment errors happen for some reason)
Due an Error that happened for some reason I'm too pissed to rewrite what I said(probably should've copied just incase), so instead:
Thing designed for Long Ranged Area Denial, Way too powerful for how easy it is to play, due to that lowers interactions and lowers fun.
Concept:
it cannot use the Keep up with Survivors feature, instead it has an ability thats WAY slower and more letting the enemy know you're catching up, so the option of having to waddle over there is valuable as that one is unexpected which long range surprise is where it excels best, I mean since it is so long you can still be useful getting there.
For the weapon, since(I still don't get what the issue with the error is, I need halp :( )
A lot of words and no like, I got you
"Left 4 dead has something Vermintide doesn't"
Me: "A competent team that could get a game working on actual release, instead of having to make us wait five months to a year for enough patches to make the game actually fun?"
"A versus mode!"
Me: "Oh, uh. That too, I guess?"
lmao true, took fatshark a year to make dark tide playable in a working state as I predicted too.
@@DaemonPrince Yeah, and they are still in the making the game actually fun part
@@DaemonPrince Lmao, yeah! I knew what they're like but I was still so shocked when Darktime came out and it was just... barren. One step forward two steps back with them
@@WiidLover crafting update at least looks like it will slap
Yeahhh but core gameplay wise they're very different
I think there’s an important lesson to be remembered when looking at PvP, and that is to not crucify the development team if it’s not that good. Remember that the game was never meant for PvP and was purely a Dopamine factory, the team never really intended to make a PvP mode and that shows through the obscenely OP abilities of the heroes.
It’d be warranted if they started to sell it as DLC and it was in this state but because it’s a free add on, give them some slack.
For me, the key will be on combining Chaos Waste with Versus Mode, somehow. Well, maybe not the key. But it would be damn well impressive.
I wonder if different classes for the rats could be dictated by the map played, so warpfire rats could be useful in the open areas and not overpowered in corridors without the devs having to try juggling both. Like maybe on maps like the farm they get a flamethrower longer range but on the indoor maps they get smthn else so they can't just hold down a choke or melt a team all at once
I don't have any thoughts related to Vermintide pvp or balancing it, I just like commenting on these videos because you're one of my favorite TH-cam channels. Woooo
Sounds like in order to make this Versus mode work, Fatshark is gonna need to do a lot of F.O.C-ing around.
2:50 Ayo, brother, why put Jdon Soul into a jar???
I'm waiting so hard for this mode.
I think giving all the specials a default melee to use whenever their power isn’t available would be a nice change (and would make it so you could do literally anything about skeletons)
My friends and I were so excited to play this, we all get in a group and finally get a game going. I end up getting stuck with no way out. Next game we all get back together, join a game and a random player playing as the rat that hangs you, stuck me out of bounds on purpose multiple times. We never played since.
whoever at GW made the poison wind globes should get a raise. I swear, every game they appear in, they are extremely silly and fun.
I like that as Gutter Runner and Ratling Gunner you need to charge up the pounce/ratling gun while globadier can just left click or hold it so you can see where it will land before releasing the button.
my version of versus mode would be a 2team vermintide. somekind of chaotic black mirror versions of the Ubersreik 5 vs the OG. all running the gauntlet to get the magic gizmo and trying to trip the competition.
The main thing that concerns me is the player skill level. Obviously the sweats and tryhards are going to dunk on rat players because they've been playing since launch while new players who will want to chill with their friends will get dunked on by tryhard humans and tryhard rats.
I, myself, am casual scum so I am not looking forward to this addition to the game.
so far, it's a bit of both but more rat sided as players who aren't good at V2 playing as heroes are 9/10 getting completely dumpstered withing 5-10 minutes of a round and ratside dealing so much damage is just getting out of hand in balance. Only time the 1/10 is a thing is when the other team arent good at the game either but even then ratside usually pulls out on the rounds and the teams never make it to the end.
thats also my fear , this could very easily become like the Versus of L4D2 which is bassicaly unplayable because of these type of peoples and they will kick you
Well, I kinda understand your point, but the usual normal modes wont dissapear anywhere. The other guy in the comments suggested the idea of making rats weaker, like in normal modes, because now rats are overtuned, but so that players can join as rats in normal modes. It sounds fun to me. A bit like Resident evil 6 zombie mode, if you know about that
@@legionerer I think that by "I am not looking forward to this addition to the game" they just mean they aren't excited, not that they are against the gamemode.
This video makes me reconsider if I want Verses in Darktide. Would love to play a sniper and dome someone across the map... But don't want to spawn and then instantly get gunned down either
Iron Breaker in general with his passive of not take damage every few seconds is completely broken, especially if you get the talent that knocks enemies back that goes with it when the passive goes down. It completely negates Gutter Runners, Pack Masters, and Life Leeches. That's 3 of your specials that will straight up be ineffective if the dwarf can keep the passive up.
its the exciting chibi robo music in the beginning for me
A fringe issue (which became a bigger one near the end of the test)
Is melee going through walls, at first it's an occasional annoyance for the rats, where heroes could kill you through walls, a bit frustrating but not crazy, I'd personally say remove it because it just doesn't feel fair (
First time seeing this channel, the feed blesses me this day. Extremely entertaining video!
With all the RPG mechanics, it'd be kinda neat if they did the same thing but for the rats; not the gear part, but the passives and such. Maybe change up the look of your rat depending on which clan you're from
when i played, i didnt even know it was a possibility to call ur own horde to help you as rats, but they should let you decide which horde you want to call. like possible a few chaos warriors to help you out
Am I living in an alternate universe? I remember there always being a versus mode in vermintide 2...
I wonder if a better solution to those weapons and talents would be giving rats some talents as well. Also, I really want them to add the Blightstormer to the Versus mode.
Balance feels simple to me: players get ultimate power but limited respawns, rats get... less than ultimate power but infinite and near immediate respawns. After all, it's called a "vermintide".
In my opinion, rats may and should be strong because both teams will be playing them. It's not even matter if attackers survive to the last checkpoint, the points system is good enough for win or lose conditioning.
wake up babe, new Verac video just dropped
"Vermintide players don't have friends" man that stung... My friends are afraid of rat. they do not enjoy excessive rat. They do not enjoy the dwarven singing.
Verac you gotta show us why Chaos Wastes is so Fun and why it should be in Darktide! or something...Or maybe why it shouldnt be? your choice!
They should definitely make balance changes exclusive for the versus mode.
For that Globadere bs. They should make it so dealing damage disables ghosting for 10 seconds for all rats except the disablers.
While for the gas rat specifically they should have a little game where every second out of line of sight decreases reload speed by 10% up to 50% (staying in line of sight reverses this every second), while adding another flat 50% if ghosting or within ghosting range. That should significantly slow down the pressure from gas-rats that don't put themselves at any risk.
Me and my friends were running Mercenary and Unchained with extra temporary hp talents on ult, and we slaughtered enemy teams because we were basically immune to chip damage as a result. Run that with a Handmaiden and Ironbreaker or Warrior Priest and you have a recipe for an absolutely untouchable team.
Honestly Id love it if Fatshark made a "PvP skill tree" for the characters for you to rank up with and are balanced entirely around PvP, Not just for the ubersreik 5 but for the rats too
I tried versus for the first time in the latest test, and I've never played L4D2. They removed that class idea and exactly what you predicted happened, my friends spend minutes preparing all their talents, but then a bug happened and we got placed on opposite teams, and the randos stole the classes, so my friends all had to play talentless.
It's still very much a war of attrition with hordes chipping away at players. Most of the games I had were steamrolls, and I think you are right that being more generous with the healing but giving specials more stopping power could help with that feeling.
While playing as the rats were novel, all of them felt stiff and janky. Climbing still feels bad. It makes me yearn for when I played Nosgoth, with how fun it was to climb up buildings. Basically none of my friends liked the mode, I gave it a good amount of hours, but all my friends gave up on it pretty immediately and only gave it one try. The fact that we never got to play as a full stack because the matchmaker split us onto opposite teams definitely soured the experience.
It was a nice novelty while it lasted, I do not think this mode will become a mainstay in my vermintide playing friend group unless they make some more big changes.
Man got so upset at Vermintide that he made a video at LIGHTNING speed. Respect
me 'tinkin why this rat not play space rat with da bois, we gots Dakkas!
my guessin is dat the squeaky bois just not logical like us orkz....
Shoutout to Edward Jobes at the donor
section. Hope your father is doing well at Edward Jones. If not I hope a competator is helping them out
There are two other options they could have done.
1. Remove special abilities from all heroes, so no OP weapons or trinkets, or skills, incentivizing cooperative play. (Serious, imagine if a hunter jumped on a survivor and they're both very far away, but one player had an ability that would just rain fire from the sky to knock the hunter off. It wouldn't be fun.)
2. (I prefer this one) Give rat players their own abilities and trinkets, allowing for people to only matchmake in a rough power scale of hero players, so being slightly above or below their power would make you be able to play with them in public matches. And private matches could allow an option to not have and sort of limits for power, allowing friends to just mess about in their own lobby.
Fatahark's quality of seal is to ensure their games REAAAALLY and i mean REAAAAALLY stretch what the meaning of LIVE SERVICE IS to a game. if ya get content within 10 years, its no problem!
I'd say; get rid of the survivors class abilities, make hordes of unplayable vermen (aka humanoid rats) more like distractions, re-design all the levels, put in crawl spaces only Vermen can use, add grapple mechanics to playable vermen, GIVE PLAYABLE VERMEN CLASS PERKS AND ITEMS THAT AFFECT HORDES AND THE PLAYABLE VERMEN.
Vermen - impromptu play on the word - Mermen (or otherwise)
Always here to get my memes, shitposts, and dopamine whenever a Verac vid drops
I love coming home to a new Verac vid.
fun fact: Perú holds most of the L4D2 Versus playerbase, and they even make tournamets since the gamemode has a fair gameplay
Well done for not calling them FartShart, Verac, I know that took a lot of restraint.
i feel like giving the rats different classes than basically hunter and smoker would be a good start. like, the players already get powerful classes in the base game, give them powerful classes as rats too. the flamethrower is a good start, that one is good, but they should also get tanky options, for example it could be a rat that actually wears armor and uses a shield, or a rat that can build structures and prevent the player's progression while giving them a defensive advantage- it doesn't need to be anything special too, a rampart that impedes survivors and allows a rat push would be fantastic. a summoner rat that revives dead rats and summons new ones from the ground would be great for keeping the fight alive. in this way, the players don't just feel like they're playing a lowly rat, they're actually playing one the rare trained and developed rats that can actually measure up to humans.
Here's another reason why people aren't hyped about Vs mode. Some people just don't like PvP. They're not here to challenge themselves, they're here to mow through wave upon wave of enemies and not to engage their brain, and a co-op horde game is one of the best ways to do that with a couple of friends.
Fan from Brazil here and...yeah, our government is a sham...I wouldn't be surprised if what you said actually happened next week to be honest Verac 😅. Good video tho can't wait for the next one 👍🏻
if bandages didn't take you off death's door but possibly took 1.5x to 2x as long if you're applying them to yourself might be the ticket. Left 4 Dead made it so it's more efficient for another survivor to heal you, but it takes *2* guns out of play temporarily. That might be the solution here.
this isnt true, L4D another survivor healing you with a medkit and healing yourself is the same speed, the medkit is fine where it is right now in vs as it basically works like vanilla.
also it doesnt take 2 guns out of play you can still shoot while being healed
I've only played the virst Alpha, interesting how it's developing. I'd also say they are definitely making steps in the right direction
If I were to make the Versus mode, first off I would design new generic characters for the Empire team that don't have any special abilities, and new customizable Boss classes for the rats. How it would work is that instead of finding people for revives, the Empire team would instead have 'Reinforcements' upon being completely wiped. The MVP would get to play as one of the Ubersreik 5, while the others get to change class as they desire. As for the Rat team, whoever is the MVP continues respawns as the Boss class; however points earned while playing as the Boss class don't count toward the next round of respawns, meaning the Boss class will change hands.
The most reasonable solution for versus would be to start from the bottom and add ten custom versus tailored abilities per class. for both scaven and good guys
I'm here for Sharkrac
You fill that hole in my consumer brain that sseth left
There is no problem. Vermintide 2 issue is
1. No Orcs/Goblins(we have a karazk dlc quest but No orcs or goblins. Wtf)
2. No other chaos faction but Nurgle
3. No high elf class to play(no swordmaster? Lions Guard? Elf mage? Wtf)
4. No vampire lords but a vampire lords quest dlc exists? What lmfao
5. No dark elf faction
6. Skaven vermintide but ZERO jungle DLC with LIZARD MEN???? do you just hate the WH fantasy fans?
7. No tomb kings or zombie pirates faction
I mean, how the heck we have dark tide out but still no actual expansions that go into other factions besides beastmen?
Why are the dev’s so incompetent to not focus on adding in the high elves as a playable class or adding in new areas like the jungles of the lizard men(THE MAIN enemies of the skaven) or the VAMPIRE LORDS when we got a necromancer class now! Its the most infuriating thing to experience
Here's an idea... Star Wars Battlefront. Not the EA one, the old one. Sooooo... Heros play as normal. But, Rats get to play as specials, sometimes, but for the rest of the time they're normal enemies. You pick your team, Heroes play as normal through the whole scenario with the Rats only objective being to stop them. Sure they're way weaker than the Heroes, but they're endless. They can respawn constantly.
Everyone knew Versus would be bad, if the human team used the Ubersreik 5 with all their OP builds, and rats got no builds of their own. But, rather than accept that it just was never to be, and make alternative normal soldiers to balance the mode around, or make unique hero rats, they buffed and nerfed what already existed, and now nobody is happy.
I think the Globe bois will be fine if they get rid of the "catch up to heroes" ability. Outrunning the rats should be a viable strategy for the hero side so that faster, single-target rats have a niche to control speedrunners who separate.
The best way to do it is pre-set loadouts and map changes for pvp specifically.
Needs an edition that has all the dlc, tried to get back into the game after this video, but the dlc page is beyond confusing
I think two things to keep in mind is that 1, the Pactsworn have had a very neutered roster so far. A blightstormer or Minotaur or Chaos Spawn will definitely be able to offset the fact that the heroes have strong abilities.
And 2, it's designed to be asymetrical pvp. Rat lives are expendable, it's fine if you only do a little chip damage before getting insta-gibbed, you get another 15 lives throughout the level to go again and the respawn is only like 5 seconds. Survivors being able to oneshot rats with handguns etc. is only a problem if Fatshark puts too plentiful ammo in the level. L4D had a sniper rifle and full auto rifles, if versus worked there it can work in V2 too.
But Fatshark do have to remember that it's a horde game. In the earliest playtests there were far too few normal roaming and horde enemies and it was far too easy for the heroes because of it. The heroes need to be threatened and distracted by normal enemies for the specials to work, but in the early playtests Fatshark had a philosophy of "We want the rat players to be the threat to the heroes" - which doesn't really work when you can ignore five rats hitting you to whip out your handgun to shoot a special and barely take any damage for it.
WE ARE SO BACK WITH THIS ONE 🔥🔥🔥
I think a neat way to balance it would be to make players play a "stock" loadout. Choose your melee and ranged, no special stats, just regular power level, and keep talents off, or at least the last few "op" rows. That way teams need to coordinate