With such a range and price point, I would have though it would be a great competitor to the Bentley Bentayga, Range Rover Autobiography, and other similar car, not the Model X.
not too many people know that. How many tractors did they sell back in those days? I mean look at the Lexus LFA in 2012, amazing car for Aventador money, How many people would take the LFA over a Aventador right now?
Ford success in Europe started out with slave labour in Germany. it boosted their capital, their existence that kept them alive until the bailout from Bush and Obamma
Through my wife, I know of an engineer who left a well paid job, to join Dyson's project. He was consequently out of a job. I'm not blaming Dyson, but did he not learn anything from Tesla's gargantuan battle against, fossil-fuelled, 'Big Auto'? It was obviously not going to be a walk in the park, was it?
The car market is one of the most competitive in the world. There is easier markets to crack than the car market. Even Apple has decided not to enter it despite spending tons of money on their car project. Dyson would be better off licensing the battery technology to car makers.
@@joeyknight8272 Apple has a car project called Titon. They hired engineers and have invested tons in R&D but it is looks like they decided to not enter the car market because it's too competitive and the margins are too low. Apple would probably be better off buying a stake in VW or Mercedes then starting their own car division.
@@AutoTraderTV "spewing out emissions"........exhaust emissions are measured in ppm (parts per million). Nothing has been manufactured for decades that is simply allowed to "spew". Is a tired old cleche for cheap effect all you are capable of coming up with? Furthermore no manufacture would reject an easy and cheap way of meeting ever tightening emissions regs. You are just repeating conspiracy theory garbage Rory. At least in analysing the cost of building electric you gave the manufacturers some credit
@@xtc2v The suspicion has to be that Dyson's idea for emission reduction just did not work as well as he pretends or, if it did work at all, was far too expensive, or, most likely, it could not operate over the distance legislation demands (80,000 miles or more).
@@geraldryan7544 Agreed, otherwise VW group would have used it as a simple fix for their emissions scandal! In fact, all car manufacturers would I'm sure prefer a zero emission ICE car over the massive investment needed for producing and EV....I would wager that the Dyson filter didn't work!
starchaser28 Hmm.....So Ford developed faster cars........and faster cars....all doing 5mph in traffic jams.....At least you could collect the manure from the horse and put it on the food garden.....Adding value to the journey and no road tax or fuel tax or VAT or car tax.....5mph sounds good value then!
To be fair half a billion is small money in the car company world. That's about the cost of retooling a medium sized factory. I'm impressed all that design and testing work only cost £500million
dont be so sure. its capex. and they are writing it off. they will adjust against other profits of the company. and we are not sure how much tax breaks they got for green energy project. dont get me wrong. they will lose money. just not as much as the headlines make it out to be.
A significant amount of that money was UK government grants. Dyson then buggered off to Singapore to cut his tax bill and to avoid future inheritance tax.
Exactly. Selling $90 vacuum cleaners for $500 and everybody talks about it. "I got a Dyson!" When you build a brand, you can't cheapen it by low prices. How many people bought up to an iPhone just to show off that they have an iPhone. Same with a Dyson car. Those of us who didn't buy up to a Dyson or an iPhone would probably not buy up to a Dyson car. But there a plenty of people who would. Dyson just needs to bring together the capital, partners, suppliers, employees to make it happen. Just in case he didn't know, Tesla's patents are out there, just ask Xpeng.
For many years I designed and manufactured systems for commercial vehicles. I loved working on the most complex and unusual ones. It is fun to invent some new way of making a thing work. It was quire engrossing. The very hardest part of that job was knowing when to walk away, when to call a customer and admit that I couldn't make a gizmo that fit their requirements. Often I would go back and revisit these rare failures and try again.. and again, often spending unjustifiably large sums. I didn't have Dyson's budget but I understand the emotion, and I feel his pain.
@@allall-hz2ji someone doesnt know shit, but it's okay we need stupid people like you for our society to function, low IQ is actually needed to keep the world going.
@@TheGreenGolem VW are, they made it look easy with the ID.3! Showed Tesla how a REAL car manufacturer gets shit done! They can close the books now the big boys are here!
"If anyone can make an electric car work it's him, surely!" No. Not at all. We generally struggle to understand that the automotive industry is one, if not THE most complex industry in the world. The level of optimization it has gone through in the last century it's something not easy to comprehend, the amount of regulations and standards it has to meet is overwhelming, and it doesn't stop here... all of this while mantaining rigorous quality control AND the production rates of a can factory, oh, and don't forget the post-sell support and assistance and the practically non existent margins in all but a few segments. That's why Tesla still struggles to achieve the QC of even the cheapest japanese or european citycar, and that's why NO, having distrupted the vacuum cleaner market is not a qualification to make a big splash in this incredibly hard industry sector.
I agree. I've been a development engineer for most years of the last 24. It is sodding difficult and sodding expensive. My years outside of the automotive industry were as a development engineer in the aero-engine industry. Damn, they ARE expensive. Don't think you';; get many start-ups competing with the Trent 700 !
You're of talking out your butt really. He messed up because he worked backwards he designed the car before sorting out his supply chain, when he got around to doing so it was a surprise. It can and has happened to others in every industry. It can be said Tesla only exists because they managed a deal with Panasonic for batteries, there were other EV manufacturers when coming out along with Tesla when it. Tesla secured a battery the others didn't, Tesla is here the others are not. Same thing is happening with Dyson. The crap you spouted has nothing to do with that.
@@ExileXCross do you realize the reasons you gave for Tesla's success doesn't negate the points of the original comment? And why would you insult a random person on the internet for a perceived differing opinion?
@@ExileXCross Musk had the capabilities, ie lots of very cash rich friends, It was his Hollywood friends that save Space X, to raise money to build his own battery factory. Dyson already has such a factory and it been expanding for years.
Somethings didn't arrive. The project manager was promised SSB batteries, they still haven't arrive. The project manager couldn't foresee that Dyson would choose to build a factory in one of the most expensive cities on the planet.
If batteries were the biggest cost. I Wonder why he didn’t just trim the range down to say 3-400miles this way he has a product to start off. Sale some units and in future release your 1000mile car once the market is more familiar with the brand. Perhaps he tried to do too much with his first product.
When the manufactures claim, say 300 mile range, that's usually in ideal weather conditions on flat roads. So out in the real world it'll certainly be less. Factor in battery degradation over a few years & the range anxiety could become a real problem.
@@ONYX-365 Not when it comes to the 100kwh Model S & X that Dyson was trying to compete with. 300 Miles is not efficient for a 100kwh Pack. That's in bad condtions.
@@ONYX-365 "Factor in battery degradation over a FEW years" LIES! Battery does not massively degrade around 8 Years. It plateaus for several years under 10%. That is a well known statistics of Lithium Ion BEVs real world fleet data.
I wrote an article for a business magazine on the foolhardiness of Dyson's electric car project. I called it his Sinclair C5 moment. He had experimental battery technology which he was trying to commercialize at light speed. Most other solid state battery researchers thought that the potential for a commercial battery was five to ten years longer than the timescale Dyson had given himself. Dyson also chose to start from scratch. His potential competitors, the existing car manufacturers, already had production lines. His potential competitors had existing car models. He was building something completely new when his competitors were engaged in product modification. He had small capacity. His potential competitors had huge capacity to produce. Dyson was developing his own battery technology, not linking to an existing supplier. Again more cost. Dyson was trying to develop a new battery technology, smaller lighter batteries but with faster charging times and greater capacity. There were lots of rumours that said batteries were unable to provide the power output demanded by the Dyson Car. this is exactly the problem Sinclair had with the C5. Sinclair had developed a new battery technology (something he had been working on for decades) BUT his batteries weren't ready for commercial launch so the C5 was a busted flush that had to be pedalled up the slightest of hills. Dyson could have gone into a joint venture to supply his new battery technology to the existing car industry. By focusing on the battery alone rather than trying to build a new car from scratch, he may have got better results. Instead, at the launch of his car project, Dyson chose to slag off the existing car industry and go it alone. It was always going to be a problem for Dyson to launch his new car at a competitive price. He was operating at the edge of commercial viability with his battery technology add a lack of economies of scale and existing vehicle parts -suspension, brakes, etc, his car was always going to e hugely expensive and produced in small batches. Just look at the issues Tesla had when demand exceeded their production capacity.
Dyson is way ahead of the time!!! This project will surely comeback, it must! He's a visionary, some people don't understand. We need such people, the world needs such people.
@@nitin577 Before Elon Musk got involved, it was a 'hobby' company. It was Elon who took it from a project to build an electric sports car, and moulded into a software, energy, and auto company for the mass market...olong side Spacex, Starlink, Neurolink and Open AI, all simultaneously. You try doing that.
Something you didn’t mention Rory - Patents! All of this design and innovation is not completely wasted. I imagine Dyson have created innovations they will hope to share with other car companies during this project. Motors, batteries for example. I expect Dyson will end up recouping and in fact making money from this in the long run.
For Dyson to sell the product in the UK the 600 mile range doesn’t make sense. However if his intended audience is the USA then it makes total sense. My children just came up from Texas to see me, that trip was 875mi. one way, about 14 hours nonstop driving. Even with shorter trips you would still have to figure in excess power for air conditioning, heating, mountainous terrains, battery pack heaters, etc, etc,.
And yet Elon because he is vertically integrated can sell an SUV for $60,000 and make 25% margin. Dyson on the other hand has to buy technology to build his car
i think this is one of the times Dyson got it all wrong.. instead of trying to make one of the most high quality expensive heaviest cars in the world.. he should of concentrated on developing one of the cheapest high quality lightest cars in the world ... he owns advanced plastic mouldings facility's .. he owns advanced battery factory's.. and he owns advanced electric motor manufactures.. he had the technology and the mind to make something different .. but sadly he went for beefing up something that was already there
Cool vid. Very nicely put together. I would feel more sorry for Dyson, I appreciate his ambition, but having owned a couple of Dyson prods myself, I personally think they’re actually not that special, overpriced and overhyped.
Tesla is creating a full package, owning the car the batteries, the data, self-drive, software, insurance, and data network ie Starlink. it could be a bit like Amazon in that the full fast delivery package becomes so good no one else can compete. Maybe Dyson's realization is it's not just hardware.
Too much about his ego and profit , so it won't end up being as truly revolutionary. Profit is the shavkle electric vehicle's are bound too. Yes I know you're going to say we have to make money. Notice how much cleaner the world is since it was stopped in its tracks. We could find a way to adjust and live so this could continue. But we don't care enough.
@@LafemmebearMusic NASA didn't operate the Space Shuttles with profit in mind and they ended up being so expensive that they had to cancel the entire program. Today Musk is shuttling people to the Space station, not only at a MUCH lower cost than what it used to cost NASA 10 years ago, but even much less than what it costs NASA to utilize the Russian Soyez rockets to take the Astronauts up... and that's INCLUDING a tidy Profit for SpaceX. Profits serve a purpose, not only as seed money for expanded research and development, but also as a catalyst to improve efficiency.
Don't forget Tesla Solar! You can now get a V3 Tesla Solar glass tile roof and 2-V2 Powerwalls for less than installing a Metal Roof, a Barrel Tile Roof or concrete tile roof, by the time you factor in energy savings. Also, Tesla will soon roll out software that will allow their PowerPacks located all around the world at their charging stations, along with your Powerwall and your car to all connect to the Grid to become a virtual power company. Saving excess energy to then give back to the grid during peak times.
Hi Rory! I just have a question. Couldn't James Dyson have NOT made the car so ambitious since it was going to have some cool features(like the range etc.)? Couldn't he have made the car for example a 5 seater and not want to make it have a 600 mile range? What if he didn't make the car as cool as it looks and step it down a bit so it would be more affordable and not £150,000 just to make profit of it. Also, couldn't he have made the car with another automotive company that was willing to invest in this project? Finally about the exhaust he made, couldn't he use it if he were to make a diesel SUV instead of an electric so the cost lowers? I mean he could have tried to sell it again now since going green and diesel is a problem now. Thanks and I hope you can answer my questions! Regards, Alex
He could have done all of those things (dumbed it down), but that's not Dyson's style. That's why they've been so successful elsewhere. I'm not sure the exhaust filter he invented would catch on today due to the fact we now have diesel particular filters and AdBlue. -Rory Thanks Alex.
About the 600 mile range, that might not be a huge asset in the UK, but in the US, that would really relieve much of the range anxiety around electric cars. It is not all that uncommon to drive 1000 miles a day for a long trip here, so the 600 mile range would have made the recharging stops so much less frequent.
@@SKYLIMI TBH, i don't like or respect Dyson, he built his business up in the UK then moved the manufacturing side abroad for the cheap labour, so we give him a knighthood. He is a pro brexit spokesman but moved his hq to Singapore for the lower corporation tax, if he actually gave a shit for the UK he could move back here.
Nicely done, Again! It's refreshing to have an automotive journalist be even handed when talking about environmental concerns, and not whinge and moan about the reality that our current car tech is problematic. I could see you taking this even further, would love to see you interview Dyson about this, I think there are good stories ti be heard!
So the Cybertruck 3 motor ~$70k and Dyson $200k so total product proposition failure. His target should have been Defender X P400 ~£100k that was easy to beat with an EV with Magna and Ineos on board?
John Dinsdale no one in the traditional car manufacturing has the knowledge to develop electric systems . That has been the biggest problem car manufacturers face. They were used to just buy components but it turns out no one knows how to build them.
What is clear is that Dyson didn’t know how to build high end electronic systems from scratch nor did they know how to build their own battery system, in other words he didn’t know how to actually make the thing work. However I think the problem was that in the UK they treated the project as a sure thing. That grew expectations to levels that were not achievable
I've always been of the impression that dyson products are overrated , on a different note the guy who presented this video is was excellent , very informative .
what are emissions related illnesses? I often cycle and at lights stop a foot or less behind fuel cars, wants to make the best there is? I never used a dyson hand dryer or vacuum but that as I know they clog up too easy
Elon only owns 20% of Tesla. Like Tesla Dyson would need a good business plan to attract investments to challenge or do a Tesla. Dyson would need to change the mane to get investors.
@@giths19 He wouldn't need to "Challenge" Tesla. His goal was to challenge the other automakers and I for one am sad that he didn't have the balls to follow through. Let's keep in mind that at one point Tesla AND SpaceX were hemorrhaging money and Elon decided to go ALL IN and basically put all of his money into saving BOTH companies. His gamble has now paid off and he's worth BILLIONS because of it. Hell, if things keep going the way they've been going he could be the worlds first TRILLIONAIRE. Part of the reason for that is because people like Dyson and Apple and many others have dropped the ball with Electric cars and are leaving it all for Tesla. Oh well, more market share for Tesla to take over as the world transitions from ICE cars to Electric.
Dyson used a key phrase 'commercially viable'. Tesla has non stop had to go cap in hand to keep them afloat and has never made a year on year profit in the16 years of its operation and that's on top of any number of government subsidies. Space X had 7 decades of rocket science to build on along side having access to; modern materials, tech and computers and STILL took 7 years longer to do something NASA did 6 decades ago.
Very nice summary of the story. I work in the Auto industry as an engineer and followed Dyson from the start of its EV project. They really were wildly naive from the start. Saying they were "Ambitious" was a more kind way of putting it. From the start, senior level Dyson employees were ringing alarm bells that the EV project could bring the company down. Just read some of the Glassdoor reviews. A more fundamental issue was their urge to re-engineer every aspect of the car. They were literally trying to re-invent the wheel. This is where Tesla excels; Tesla leans heavily on Tier1 suppliers to bring in existing hardware with no radical customizations. Instead of all-out hardware superiority, Tesla also banked on software and they are 5 years ahead of even the big Auto players. Dyson EV had no chance. Dyson does well with their premium consumer products and they are really nice to use. However, from an objective technical view, they are over engineered, over priced & not that robust (a philosophy that does not work for new EV companies). What vacuum cleaner does the local car wash use.... its a Karcher, Hoover or a Henry.
I was thinking the same thing. but good old Clive lost the lot but his vision and idea still can be seen today in Mobility scooters. At least James pulled the plug lol.
Paddy Coleman Hmm! I remember seeing the Sinclair C5 aerial poking up over my car bonnet at traffic lights......almost forgetting the blooming C5 thing was there! C5Good on a bike lane maybe due for a refurbishment! Is Sinclair still alive....if so somebody should tell him....Imagine a whole Supermarket car park with 2021 model C6’s....complete with shopping basket....Er? Handbasket.
You've hit the nail on the head with the partnership angle; Dyson should've partnered up with an established part of the supply chain for EVs or at least another manufacturer. Even the mighty Tesla compromised on this; the first Tesla-powered EV had a Toyota badge, the second was a modified Lotus design and the third, while very much a Tesla design, had Mercedes switchgear in the interior because they knew what corners could be cut at that stage. The range-you-think-you-need is another good point; people don't actually need to go as far as they think they do in one go. But they do need to be able to charge up as quick as they can with an internal combustion engine, which currently isn't possible no matter how much you spend on an EV. So perhaps Dyson should've looked at creating a charger/battery combination that could rival refuelling times of a petrol/diesel pump. That would be truly revolutionary.
2:30 That is a gross oversimplification. The thing about going greener with the internal combustion engine is that there is a bigger payoff by trying to improve combustion itself than trying to improve how effectively you clean the exhaust gases. Exhaust cleaning itself can help you meet emissions requirements, but cars are already meeting those without the need for exotic new technology. On the other hand, raising efficiency and quality of combustion by a variety of means can get you better emissions, better performance, and better fuel mileage all at the same time, making it a more attractive upgrade from older technology. This is where the profitability point sets in. You can't really sell "we have something better than your average catalytic converter!!!," because the people who care about that are regulatory bureaucrats. You can, however, sell that "we can get you a flatter torque curve and a wider power band and better fuel efficiency." Dyson's better exhaust cleaning system was probably legitimately impressive, but it was too shallow of a win to be worthwhile. Now, yes, if it required less wasted hydrocarbons, it probably could also save some fuel as well, but I doubt it could have done better than improving the engine itself. And before you think about the timing of when manufacturers rolled out the sorts of new thermodynamic efficiency improvements we've seen in recent years as opposed to when Dyson proposed his exhaust cleaner... you have to realize the sorts of long turnaround times the auto industry has with respect to R&D. Even things as trivial as upgrading the displays on the center stack often has a 3-year turnaround time. Now try and imagine how long it would take to manage something on the drivetrain that really matters and even after trials and testing on mules and collecting data and validating the long-term reliability of the systems and only then going through the legal rigmarole and regulatory approval processes... you can imagine how many years in the making something like direct injection or counter-swirling valve seat geometry would have been. Chances are good that manufacturers had several other alternatives in the lab. To be honest, the nature of emissions regulations is kind stupid, particularly in the U.S., though Europe is significantly more sensible in this regard. In the U.S. in particular, they are concerned with the composition of the exhaust per unit volume. The logic here is that the cars shouldn't be putting out very much nasty stuff like NOx or CO... Problem with that is that nobody drives according to units of exhaust volume! People drive according to distances they need to travel, and the methodology used doesn't scale appropriately with respect to mileage. It literally makes it possible for a Honda Civic and a Chevy Corvette to achieve similar emissions scores. Europe at least does a better job on this, but even there it's a bit problematic since their schedule is not too representative to the real driving behaviors within various countries.
Great video I've never been convinced by anything made by Dyson In my mind Dyson products are just too expensive for what they are and they feel like gimmicks wrapped in stylish shaped plastic
You got to be kidding me, right?! I too own 2 of his Dyson vacuum cleaners and over time found they were poorly designed and funny enough both batteries had to be replaced eventually! Thanks God he’s not designing a car let alone a EV!
No you can he was vain and irrational, the man has been a bit off in general lately. He was massively pro-Brexit but then once he got his way he moved Dysons HQ across to Singapore along with his residence.
I know people and partners who worked with him that would take opposite view (ruthless control freak is one comment). Personally, I had one of his products and I hold that the company sells massively overpriced and poorly engineered, unreliable crap (or semi crap) - but with design panache and good marketing. Ulimate in PT Barnum style over any substance .
@@bbbf09 I agree. Most of these companies are built on marketing. I'm not one of his fans. He's not a serious dude. Stick to overpriced vacuum cleaners.
Here in Holland, we know that Dyson stands for design and quality, ... two great purchasing motivators. Even for a car like this. For the wealthier ones among us, it could become "the thing to own" in a niche market, so I'm sure there would be buyers for a Dyson car. Pity he didn't make it. Nice review though; I enjoyed watching it. :-)
600 mile car journey does make sense. It makes sense since people want to "charge" their car less and have the freedom knowing that it will run out of juice after 600 miles. I feel Dyson should be in talks with TOGG and now allow his technology to go to waste.
@johnDomain Tesla is beyond amazing, it's scary where they are now. Going to be an Anti-Trust problem in over a decade. Newest Surviving Automaker going to be a Bully. Once thought Impossible.
Ahmed Alhashmi Oh I have. It was actually closer to 7%. The overall percentage is largely irrelevant and of course an ICE and BEV don’t have not a lot in common. One of the hardest parts of car manufacture is the chassis as there’s tonnes of red tape, safety regulatory rules to abide by. That’s why they got help from Lotus. That’s why most car companies share chassis between models. As this is the foundation of the car you cannot say the roadster was from scratch. But there’s no shame on Tesla getting help from Lotus as they are one of the best when it comes to building lightweight sports cars
It's a very size efficient car. Three row wagon/crossover the size of a midsize sedan. The flat floor frees up space inside. I love they also put in minivan styled sliding doors.
evrim Kaya There is a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. All the "tax the rich" idiots fail to realise that the rich simply go elsewhere when you tax them too much, and you end up getting nothing at all.
Always dismissed the idea of a car made by a "vacuum cleaner company" but hearing more about the man himself i must say i really reapect his approach and ingenuity. Really informative vid btw👌
Great vid Rory, you mentioned Tesla with Panasonic (CATL in China as well), but they are also about to mfr their own batteries using new chemistries and technologies they have been developing in-house. According to Reuters their new battery cost at the module level will be $80/kWh, it currently sits at $140/kWh
Thanks. They’re about to, yes. Although albeit still with help from partners like Panasonic I believe. I’ll do a story on it when it’s announced. -Rory
What I know is that the price of 'most' electric cars is prohibitively high for most of us. It occurred to me that if I bought a five year old Nissan Leaf costing roughly 5 grand, I could then buy a new battery from Nissan and virtually have a new car. I have read that Nissan will sell you the lastest battery they have for roughly 5 grand also. So all in all it costs somewhere close to 10 grand; that could be pounds or dollars, Which by my reckoning is considerably cheaper than most EV's out there. And apart from anything else, who in there right mind buys a new car these days......
Sometimes people tend to buy stuffs on the base of "Just in case". Just like how some of pickup truck owners buy pickup and never actually use neither the bed or the towing capability. When asked, some of them would probably say "But someday I'm probably gonna need it".
Exactly. Each passenger is more dead weight and significantly reduced range. Put four adults in the car and the range is 50 miles, unless you use the air conditioner which is 25 mile range, and going up a steep hill knocks it down to 10 mile range. And of course the battery has lost 50% of it's charge capacity in 5 years; new batteries will set you back $15,000. Definitely lease, don't buy. In five years technology will be 10 times better and a new car will have better range...for a much higher price
Another great piece by Rory Reid, a much underrated motoring journalist. However, I suspect there's another reason in the mix as to why Dyson binned this project, and that's the forthcoming Rivian R1S (and R1T). Same concept (though max 400 mile range), and about to start production. Massively well funded, too.
With his level of innovation, a car (even with his name) was an exciting prospect. But yeah, probably too ambitious. Despite the popularity of SUV's (questionable), maybe his efforts should have gone more towards reinventing the sedan. (ie Jaguar I Pace). SUV's I feel are over played. Yeah you have a more commanding view of the road. But if everyone is in a SUV, you're back to where you started. Also, with European roads, a SUV is overkill.
I think you are at the top of the ladder for this kind of presentation. Excellent show. Every word interesting. No time wasting. And I think Mr Dyson should work towards the other end of the line. Just as Mr Ford did. A car for the people. Affordable.
This is basically a regurgetation of the CAR manazine story from about 2 months ago. They even show the pictures and pages in absence of any direct contact with James Dyson. Let's put it down to working limitations due to Covid as you are usually much better on it than this. In terms of cost Dyson is right that he won't make money. Tesla almost never have and the mainstream car manufacturers are struggling to make viable cost effective alternatives for consumers. For VW, Ford etc. think of it like this - cost of an EV = the ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle plus/minus about $12k. Growing numbers of customers are interested in EVs but until Total Cost of Ownership (through govt incentives and economies of scale) is at or close to parity to ICE then low take up and residual values will hold us all back from mass adoption.
I couldn't afford to buy one but I would love to own one. I'd pick that over a Tesla anyday. I know I am going to aggravate all you Tesla fanboys, but I think Tesla is overrated. There. I said it
@@kakerake6018 Watch some of Rich Rebuilds videos too see how p*ss poor their customer service is, their impressions on right to repair, their impressions on disabling features over the air because they say so and just how poor some of the build quality on their vehicles is and that's before you engage with the self righteous tw*ts that are part of the cult of Musk, indoctrinated in to his cabal by their ownership of one of the vehicles.
@@L8ugh1ngm8n1 Tesla is mostly followed like a cult due to the company and Musk having an inhumane drive to change the world and do it with software at the core. I would have bought my Telsa even if it had no doors let alone give a damn about customer support or build quality. May I add besides the doors having a terrible noise while closing them I find the Model 3 has a great quality overall.
Competing in the car industry is in itself an extremely tough job, and competing in it as a complete newcomer offering electric cars exclusively, against companies with many decades of experience behind them, AND WHO ARE BEING AWARDED HUGE SUBSIDIES TO DEVELOP e-CARS is practically mission impossible. So even Dyson failed in this quest. I am aware that electric cars are a technological challenge, but basically the motorisation must be simpler than that of a car which uses a combustion engine, so what is the big deal with the development costs ? Dacia has announced the launch of an electric car for next year, starting at around €11000, so if Dacia can do it, why did Dyson fail ??? I believe that the whole thing collapsed because Dyson wanted to show the world that he can do not only things that the car industry can do, but that he can do them much better ! If the concept had been a medium-sized car with an acceptable range, without all the gimmicks, then I believe that Dyson could have been successful in the car industry, too. 🤷🏼♂️
Dyson killed his EV project when he realised he doesn't have any of the expertise to make one. Also, Dyson products are worthless: they dont work well and die young. We owned two of his expensive vacuum cleaners and none cleaned well but both broke in a short time. Our Miele vacuum cleaner is 6 years old and still looks and acts new. And it was cheaper than a Dyson, strangely. I think Dysons are for morons.
I've have 2 dysons one a dc14 since 2007 bought from Curry's half price still working perfectly all parts are available on e-bay very cheap. Some people throw them away I usually end up fixing there old Dyson for £7 in parts. The whole thing comes apart like a kit with hardly any tool. If the car was as well made as his vacuum cleaner they were probably worth £150k especially if they lasted 20+ years
Dyson knows how to make money. He wants to make profit like the profit he makes on vacuum cleaners. Tesla are losing billions and not going to go to real profit ever. If he is saying that he needs to sell a car for $180000 so this is the price Tesla needs to sell the model 3
Dyson has some impressive electric motor technology. That may have helped with the range. I would have loved to see this come to fruition. I wouldn’t be able to afford one, but I found the project to be extremely exciting.
I like this guy’s videos. Definitely subscribing since I haven’t so far, as I loved his video on Tesla, Alfa Romeo, and FCA. I like Dyson as a company as well. It’s a shame the car won’t come to fruition in the foreseeable future, but I’m glad there’s a worldwide movement towards electrification of the auto market. Looking forward to more sustainable energy as well!
A Brazilian dude made It out of a wash machine's engine and gel batteries, sometimes peopple doesn't matter How smart they are, they try to reinvent the Wheel.
![Tesla Taxi FULL HEALTH CHECK: Is The Battery RUINED After 430,000 Miles? [Episode 4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/doAcNVuTnXU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Tesla Taxi FULL HEALTH CHECK: Is The Battery RUINED After 430,000 Miles? [Episode 4]](/img/tr.png)
What would win? 1 Tesla-sized Dyson, or 3 Dyson-sized Teslas?
That's hard question two Dysons
i used to work for Dyson, they should just stay with making vacuum cleaners
With such a range and price point, I would have though it would be a great competitor to the Bentley Bentayga, Range Rover Autobiography, and other similar car, not the Model X.
One Dyson sized Tesla, clearly ;)
Tesla are not only cool functional and fast... they are also desirable and commercially viable. Dyson stumbles badly at the last hurdle.
“A car named after a vacuum cleaner for Lamborghini money”? I don’t know. Why not? Lamborghini started out as a tractor manufacturer.
not too many people know that. How many tractors did they sell back in those days? I mean look at the Lexus LFA in 2012, amazing car for Aventador money, How many people would take the LFA over a Aventador right now?
People pay Landrover money for ice powered vehicles I doubt it's as big an issue as presented
Peugeot started in 1810 making salt and pepper shakers.
Ford success in Europe started out with slave labour in Germany. it boosted their capital, their existence that kept them alive until the bailout from Bush and Obamma
It was supposed to be funny
Through my wife, I know of an engineer who left a well paid job, to join Dyson's project. He was consequently out of a job. I'm not blaming Dyson, but did he not learn anything from Tesla's gargantuan battle against, fossil-fuelled, 'Big Auto'? It was obviously not going to be a walk in the park, was it?
The car market is one of the most competitive in the world. There is easier markets to crack than the car market. Even Apple has decided not to enter it despite spending tons of money on their car project. Dyson would be better off licensing the battery technology to car makers.
Does one get the impression Dyson is a vain individual? Could have got some tips from Elon simply by observing or tweeting.
Elon Musk has 100 ton balls. See also the space launch on Wednesday.
@@almac9203 apple ?
@@joeyknight8272 Apple has a car project called Titon. They hired engineers and have invested tons in R&D but it is looks like they decided to not enter the car market because it's too competitive and the margins are too low. Apple would probably be better off buying a stake in VW or Mercedes then starting their own car division.
Holy smokes, just dawned on me that Rory is a good enough journalist that he needn't be hooning about to keep my interest piqued
👍🏾
@@AutoTraderTV "spewing out emissions"........exhaust emissions are measured in ppm (parts per million). Nothing has been manufactured for decades that is simply allowed to "spew". Is a tired old cleche for cheap effect all you are capable of coming up with? Furthermore no manufacture would reject an easy and cheap way of meeting ever tightening emissions regs. You are just repeating conspiracy theory garbage Rory. At least in analysing the cost of building electric you gave the manufacturers some credit
@@xtc2v The suspicion has to be that Dyson's idea for emission reduction just did not work as well as he pretends or, if it did work at all, was far too expensive, or, most likely, it could not operate over the distance legislation demands (80,000 miles or more).
@@geraldryan7544 Agreed, otherwise VW group would have used it as a simple fix for their emissions scandal!
In fact, all car manufacturers would I'm sure prefer a zero emission ICE car over the massive investment needed for producing and EV....I would wager that the Dyson filter didn't work!
@@brownpartnership11 Nothing is cheaper than a bit of software that can run on a computer chip you have to have in the car anyway!
"“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” - Henry Ford
starchaser28 Hmm.....So Ford developed faster cars........and faster cars....all doing 5mph in traffic jams.....At least you could collect the manure from the horse and put it on the food garden.....Adding value to the journey and no road tax or fuel tax or VAT or car tax.....5mph sounds good value then!
Bang on..!! Comment
@@1SpudderR well.. So how many horses do you own.. And how many of them you think you would need to travel a 600 miles.
The point here, is that he asked first.
He didn't invent the automobile and he was a huge racist.
Love these type of vids!
Great video idea.
yep me too! :)
Rory is so good at this.
What video
@@APAstronaut333 Google "Hungry bitches video" watch it completely from beginning to end then come back and comment what you think 😆
puts what tesla has achieved in perspective.
so true... sobering and awe inspiring at the same time
Tesla spent years doing small scale sports car conversions, it didn't come out of nowhere. Still a very impressive entry into the market!
With taxpayers money, you mean?
@@predragbalorda I wont hurt your mind by telling you about taxpayer money and oil companies. I know you can't handle it.
@@larskefka3373 no you won't
‘Little bit too emotionally attached’ huh...the man spent half a BILLION pounds on it!!!
aleast he wasn't like delorean caught by drugs
To be fair half a billion is small money in the car company world. That's about the cost of retooling a medium sized factory. I'm impressed all that design and testing work only cost £500million
dont be so sure. its capex. and they are writing it off. they will adjust against other profits of the company. and we are not sure how much tax breaks they got for green energy project. dont get me wrong. they will lose money. just not as much as the headlines make it out to be.
Donald Escobar Hmm? His Brain drain........ing ...money!
A significant amount of that money was UK government grants. Dyson then buggered off to Singapore to cut his tax bill and to avoid future inheritance tax.
$150,000 for a luxury SUV from a guy that sells $39.95 Hidden-Bladed, "BLADE-LESS" fans for $500.00! And you are surprised?
Spencer Bardell ....???he didn’t make any or offer any for sale so there was no price.
You are talking about him like he’s the bad guy lmao..
@@paulmcgreevy3011 Watch the video. Dyson stated he would need to sell at that price to make profit..so that's his base price.
Exactly. Selling $90 vacuum cleaners for $500 and everybody talks about it. "I got a Dyson!" When you build a brand, you can't cheapen it by low prices. How many people bought up to an iPhone just to show off that they have an iPhone. Same with a Dyson car. Those of us who didn't buy up to a Dyson or an iPhone would probably not buy up to a Dyson car. But there a plenty of people who would. Dyson just needs to bring together the capital, partners, suppliers, employees to make it happen. Just in case he didn't know, Tesla's patents are out there, just ask Xpeng.
@@foxtrotwolf6081 the iPhone is different since you can not (same OS) get the same elsewhere; you can get a Dyson like vacuum elsewhere
Very informative video! Love that it never looks like your reading from a teleprompter. You always seem to do thorough research on your subject.
For many years I designed and manufactured systems for commercial vehicles. I loved working on the most complex and unusual ones. It is fun to invent some new way of making a thing work. It was quire engrossing. The very hardest part of that job was knowing when to walk away, when to call a customer and admit that I couldn't make a gizmo that fit their requirements. Often I would go back and revisit these rare failures and try again.. and again, often spending unjustifiably large sums.
I didn't have Dyson's budget but I understand the emotion, and I feel his pain.
This basically just shows how good Tesla has become as an EV manufacturer.
Lol 😂
@@allall-hz2ji someone doesnt know shit, but it's okay we need stupid people like you for our society to function, low IQ is actually needed to keep the world going.
its not only tesla.. look at hyundai kona/kia e-niro
Agreed, I mean, everyone was laughing when tesla ran into a million production issues with the model 3. Bet no one is laughing now.
@@TheGreenGolem VW are, they made it look easy with the ID.3! Showed Tesla how a REAL car manufacturer gets shit done!
They can close the books now the big boys are here!
Rory, great video, clear, concise, informative and entertaining. Good job. Thanks
I really enjoy your “mini documentary” videos. You’re an excellent presenter for them.
"If anyone can make an electric car work it's him, surely!"
No. Not at all. We generally struggle to understand that the automotive industry is one, if not THE most complex industry in the world. The level of optimization it has gone through in the last century it's something not easy to comprehend, the amount of regulations and standards it has to meet is overwhelming, and it doesn't stop here... all of this while mantaining rigorous quality control AND the production rates of a can factory, oh, and don't forget the post-sell support and assistance and the practically non existent margins in all but a few segments.
That's why Tesla still struggles to achieve the QC of even the cheapest japanese or european citycar, and that's why NO, having distrupted the vacuum cleaner market is not a qualification to make a big splash in this incredibly hard industry sector.
I agree. I've been a development engineer for most years of the last 24. It is sodding difficult and sodding expensive.
My years outside of the automotive industry were as a development engineer in the aero-engine industry.
Damn, they ARE expensive. Don't think you';; get many start-ups competing with the Trent 700 !
You're of talking out your butt really.
He messed up because he worked backwards he designed the car before sorting out his supply chain, when he got around to doing so it was a surprise. It can and has happened to others in every industry. It can be said Tesla only exists because they managed a deal with Panasonic for batteries, there were other EV manufacturers when coming out along with Tesla when it. Tesla secured a battery the others didn't, Tesla is here the others are not. Same thing is happening with Dyson. The crap you spouted has nothing to do with that.
@@ExileXCross do you realize the reasons you gave for Tesla's success doesn't negate the points of the original comment? And why would you insult a random person on the internet for a perceived differing opinion?
That century of optimisation is essentially being thrown in the bin at the moment an manufacturers have a nearly blank slate to work with.
@@ExileXCross Musk had the capabilities, ie lots of very cash rich friends, It was his Hollywood friends that save Space X, to raise money to build his own battery factory. Dyson already has such a factory and it been expanding for years.
A good project manager would have known the cost of things very early in the project. Something shady was going on here.
I think he could not get suitable team for his project.
Maybe so, big auto ganged up and prevented him getting batteries or software at a decent price??
@@bernardfender5147 There is a battery shortage right now.
Somethings didn't arrive. The project manager was promised SSB batteries, they still haven't arrive. The project manager couldn't foresee that Dyson would choose to build a factory in one of the most expensive cities on the planet.
@@bernardfender5147 His was building his own batteries and hired his own software team.
If batteries were the biggest cost. I Wonder why he didn’t just trim the range down to say 3-400miles this way he has a product to start off. Sale some units and in future release your 1000mile car once the market is more familiar with the brand.
Perhaps he tried to do too much with his first product.
When the manufactures claim, say 300 mile range, that's usually in ideal weather conditions on flat roads.
So out in the real world it'll certainly be less. Factor in battery degradation over a few years & the range anxiety could become a real problem.
Yeah everything start small
Tesla threw the whole kitchen sink in right out the gate. They just arrived at 'Normal' with the Model 3 and Y
@@ONYX-365 Not when it comes to the 100kwh Model S & X that Dyson was trying to compete with. 300 Miles is not efficient for a 100kwh Pack. That's in bad condtions.
@@ONYX-365 "Factor in battery degradation over a FEW years" LIES!
Battery does not massively degrade around 8 Years. It plateaus for several years under 10%. That is a well known statistics of Lithium Ion BEVs real world fleet data.
"Who on want to buy a car named after a vacuum cleaner for Lamborghini money?
Rory out here flexing on us with MBA level food for thought 😂
My flex-seal cavity
@@APAstronaut333 Sempre!
ISO Rivolta Bizzarini, yeah who would buy a car named after a domestic appliance, and pay more for it than a Ferrari 250 GTO?
and speaking of Lamborghini in the 60's... who would want to buy a car named after a tractor for Ferrari money?
Mitsubishi makes tv sets. So much for your pseudo MBA high thoughts.
I wrote an article for a business magazine on the foolhardiness of Dyson's electric car project. I called it his Sinclair C5 moment. He had experimental battery technology which he was trying to commercialize at light speed. Most other solid state battery researchers thought that the potential for a commercial battery was five to ten years longer than the timescale Dyson had given himself. Dyson also chose to start from scratch. His potential competitors, the existing car manufacturers, already had production lines. His potential competitors had existing car models. He was building something completely new when his competitors were engaged in product modification. He had small capacity. His potential competitors had huge capacity to produce.
Dyson was developing his own battery technology, not linking to an existing supplier. Again more cost. Dyson was trying to develop a new battery technology, smaller lighter batteries but with faster charging times and greater capacity. There were lots of rumours that said batteries were unable to provide the power output demanded by the Dyson Car. this is exactly the problem Sinclair had with the C5. Sinclair had developed a new battery technology (something he had been working on for decades) BUT his batteries weren't ready for commercial launch so the C5 was a busted flush that had to be pedalled up the slightest of hills.
Dyson could have gone into a joint venture to supply his new battery technology to the existing car industry. By focusing on the battery alone rather than trying to build a new car from scratch, he may have got better results. Instead, at the launch of his car project, Dyson chose to slag off the existing car industry and go it alone.
It was always going to be a problem for Dyson to launch his new car at a competitive price. He was operating at the edge of commercial viability with his battery technology add a lack of economies of scale and existing vehicle parts -suspension, brakes, etc, his car was always going to e hugely expensive and produced in small batches. Just look at the issues Tesla had when demand exceeded their production capacity.
What a nicely reasoned set of points. Well put.
Dyson is way ahead of the time!!! This project will surely comeback, it must! He's a visionary, some people don't understand. We need such people, the world needs such people.
No he isn't, he's a con man selling ordinary products with a slightly different design for ridiculous prices, and you're all falling for it.
Another great and informative video, keep up the good work Rory 👍👍👍
He could have pulled it off with government loans like Tesla, and having high end models to begin with for early adopters to offset the cost.
"If anyone can make an electric car work, it's him (James Dyson)."
Elon Musk has entered the chat.
More like the engineers hired by Musk. Don't allow Elon to take their credit.
Callum Ja as if Dyson didn't employ engineers as well. What's your point, exactly?
Elon wasn't the Mastermind behind Tesla... He backed the people who started it
@@nitin577 Before Elon Musk got involved, it was a 'hobby' company. It was Elon who took it from a project to build an electric sports car, and moulded into a software, energy, and auto company for the mass market...olong side Spacex, Starlink, Neurolink and Open AI, all simultaneously. You try doing that.
@@cbromley562 You're forgetting he has teams doing all those jobs and he's the one taking all the credit.
Something you didn’t mention Rory - Patents! All of this design and innovation is not completely wasted. I imagine Dyson have created innovations they will hope to share with other car companies during this project. Motors, batteries for example. I expect Dyson will end up recouping and in fact making money from this in the long run.
Haha. If its the same batteries he used in his cordless vacuum cleaners then it would never be off the charger.
I feel you 😂
correct answer
For Dyson to sell the product in the UK the 600 mile range doesn’t make sense. However if his intended audience is the USA then it makes total sense. My children just came up from Texas to see me, that trip was 875mi. one way, about 14 hours nonstop driving. Even with shorter trips you would still have to figure in excess power for air conditioning, heating, mountainous terrains, battery pack heaters, etc, etc,.
Man like Rory dropping knowledge!
This all sounds like a lot of BS marketing
I totally agree. 600 mile range?? Yeah, right!
That's Dyson all round.
@@MaximilianvonPinneberg i agree, lots of big words, grabbed some Gov money and then leg it, thats Dyson
@1:30 “who on earth is buying a car named after a vacuum cleaner for Lamborghini money” GOLD 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
And yet Elon because he is vertically integrated can sell an SUV for $60,000 and make 25% margin. Dyson on the other hand has to buy technology to build his car
For someone who is such a brilliant businessman, you'd expect him to have figured out the business case for this car long before he did.
i think this is one of the times Dyson got it all wrong.. instead of trying to make one of the most high quality expensive heaviest cars in the world.. he should of concentrated on developing one of the cheapest high quality lightest cars in the world ... he owns advanced plastic mouldings facility's .. he owns advanced battery factory's.. and he owns advanced electric motor manufactures.. he had the technology and the mind to make something different .. but sadly he went for beefing up something that was already there
Cool vid. Very nicely put together. I would feel more sorry for Dyson, I appreciate his ambition, but having owned a couple of Dyson prods myself, I personally think they’re actually not that special, overpriced and overhyped.
I agree, both my Dyson vacuums fell apart.
True, they were great when first came out, pioneered the cyclonic vacuum but other people do the same thing cheaper now.
More videos with studies like this! All new content has been 🔥
Tesla is creating a full package, owning the car the batteries, the data, self-drive, software, insurance, and data network ie Starlink. it could be a bit like Amazon in that the full fast delivery package becomes so good no one else can compete. Maybe Dyson's realization is it's not just hardware.
Too much about his ego and profit , so it won't end up being as truly revolutionary. Profit is the shavkle electric vehicle's are bound too. Yes I know you're going to say we have to make money. Notice how much cleaner the world is since it was stopped in its tracks. We could find a way to adjust and live so this could continue. But we don't care enough.
@@LafemmebearMusic NASA didn't operate the Space Shuttles with profit in mind and they ended up being so expensive that they had to cancel the entire program. Today Musk is shuttling people to the Space station, not only at a MUCH lower cost than what it used to cost NASA 10 years ago, but even much less than what it costs NASA to utilize the Russian Soyez rockets to take the Astronauts up... and that's INCLUDING a tidy Profit for SpaceX. Profits serve a purpose, not only as seed money for expanded research and development, but also as a catalyst to improve efficiency.
Don't forget Tesla Solar! You can now get a V3 Tesla Solar glass tile roof and 2-V2 Powerwalls for less than installing a Metal Roof, a Barrel Tile Roof or concrete tile roof, by the time you factor in energy savings. Also, Tesla will soon roll out software that will allow their PowerPacks located all around the world at their charging stations, along with your Powerwall and your car to all connect to the Grid to become a virtual power company. Saving excess energy to then give back to the grid during peak times.
Hi Rory!
I just have a question.
Couldn't James Dyson have NOT made the car so ambitious since it was going to have some cool features(like the range etc.)? Couldn't he have made the car for example a 5 seater and not want to make it have a 600 mile range? What if he didn't make the car as cool as it looks and step it down a bit so it would be more affordable and not £150,000 just to make profit of it. Also, couldn't he have made the car with another automotive company that was willing to invest in this project? Finally about the exhaust he made, couldn't he use it if he were to make a diesel SUV instead of an electric so the cost lowers? I mean he could have tried to sell it again now since going green and diesel is a problem now.
Thanks and I hope you can answer my questions!
Regards,
Alex
He could have done all of those things (dumbed it down), but that's not Dyson's style. That's why they've been so successful elsewhere. I'm not sure the exhaust filter he invented would catch on today due to the fact we now have diesel particular filters and AdBlue. -Rory Thanks Alex.
About the 600 mile range, that might not be a huge asset in the UK, but in the US, that would really relieve much of the range anxiety around electric cars. It is not all that uncommon to drive 1000 miles a day for a long trip here, so the 600 mile range would have made the recharging stops so much less frequent.
Dyson, the tax avoiding arch-BRexiter blowing half a £bill? Hahahahahahaaaaa....
loose change to a british hating bell end like Dyson...
How to blow your own country, produce in China, sell in the UK and pay no tax,this is the way
@@SKYLIMI I thought Dysons were made in Malaysia, not China.
@@davesy6969 You're right, it's a pity that nothing came out with the car, but he would build it in Malaysia or UK 😀
@@SKYLIMI TBH, i don't like or respect Dyson, he built his business up in the UK then moved the manufacturing side abroad for the cheap labour, so we give him a knighthood.
He is a pro brexit spokesman but moved his hq to Singapore for the lower corporation tax, if he actually gave a shit for the UK he could move back here.
Nicely done, Again! It's refreshing to have an automotive journalist be even handed when talking about environmental concerns, and not whinge and moan about the reality that our current car tech is problematic. I could see you taking this even further, would love to see you interview Dyson about this, I think there are good stories ti be heard!
So the Cybertruck 3 motor ~$70k and Dyson $200k so total product proposition failure.
His target should have been Defender X P400 ~£100k that was easy to beat with an EV with Magna and Ineos on board?
John Dinsdale no one in the traditional car manufacturing has the knowledge to develop electric systems . That has been the biggest problem car manufacturers face. They were used to just buy components but it turns out no one knows how to build them.
@@irisfailsafe Magna do and created the jaguar ipace , Mr Dyson needs to learn humiliate and ask for help
Rory ... I miss you insights on TG. I am glad I can get them here. Well presented as usual.
Great piece Rory 👍🏾
Good to see you Rory, only just found this - I'm looking forward to going through the rest of them
Serious review from the man himself
What is clear is that Dyson didn’t know how to build high end electronic systems from scratch nor did they know how to build their own battery system, in other words he didn’t know how to actually make the thing work. However I think the problem was that in the UK they treated the project as a sure thing. That grew expectations to levels that were not achievable
Our family drives to Munich from London nearly every year! (Supply & Demand 😂)
You want to pay £150,000 for FIVE drives to Munich?
I've always been of the impression that dyson products are overrated , on a different note the guy who presented this video is was excellent , very informative .
It might have had a 600 mile range if they got around to inventing the battery.
what are emissions related illnesses? I often cycle and at lights stop a foot or less behind fuel cars, wants to make the best there is? I never used a dyson hand dryer or vacuum but that as I know they clog up too easy
So even after Elon showing them the way a decade ago,they cant replicate what hes done.
...at the same time creating Space X
Elon only owns 20% of Tesla. Like Tesla Dyson would need a good business plan to attract investments to challenge or do a Tesla. Dyson would need to change the mane to get investors.
@@giths19 "only"
@@giths19 He wouldn't need to "Challenge" Tesla. His goal was to challenge the other automakers and I for one am sad that he didn't have the balls to follow through. Let's keep in mind that at one point Tesla AND SpaceX were hemorrhaging money and Elon decided to go ALL IN and basically put all of his money into saving BOTH companies. His gamble has now paid off and he's worth BILLIONS because of it. Hell, if things keep going the way they've been going he could be the worlds first TRILLIONAIRE. Part of the reason for that is because people like Dyson and Apple and many others have dropped the ball with Electric cars and are leaving it all for Tesla. Oh well, more market share for Tesla to take over as the world transitions from ICE cars to Electric.
Dyson used a key phrase 'commercially viable'. Tesla has non stop had to go cap in hand to keep them afloat and has never made a year on year profit in the16 years of its operation and that's on top of any number of government subsidies.
Space X had 7 decades of rocket science to build on along side having access to; modern materials, tech and computers and STILL took 7 years longer to do something NASA did 6 decades ago.
Very nice summary of the story.
I work in the Auto industry as an engineer and followed Dyson from the start of its EV project. They really were wildly naive from the start. Saying they were "Ambitious" was a more kind way of putting it. From the start, senior level Dyson employees were ringing alarm bells that the EV project could bring the company down. Just read some of the Glassdoor reviews.
A more fundamental issue was their urge to re-engineer every aspect of the car. They were literally trying to re-invent the wheel. This is where Tesla excels; Tesla leans heavily on Tier1 suppliers to bring in existing hardware with no radical customizations. Instead of all-out hardware superiority, Tesla also banked on software and they are 5 years ahead of even the big Auto players. Dyson EV had no chance.
Dyson does well with their premium consumer products and they are really nice to use. However, from an objective technical view, they are over engineered, over priced & not that robust (a philosophy that does not work for new EV companies). What vacuum cleaner does the local car wash use.... its a Karcher, Hoover or a Henry.
The Dyson equivalent of the Sinclair C5.
I was thinking the same thing. but good old Clive lost the lot but his vision and idea still can be seen today in Mobility scooters. At least James pulled the plug lol.
Paddy Coleman Hmm! I remember seeing the Sinclair C5 aerial poking up over my car bonnet at traffic lights......almost forgetting the blooming C5 thing was there! C5Good on a bike lane maybe due for a refurbishment! Is Sinclair still alive....if so somebody should tell him....Imagine a whole Supermarket car park with 2021 model C6’s....complete with shopping basket....Er? Handbasket.
You've hit the nail on the head with the partnership angle; Dyson should've partnered up with an established part of the supply chain for EVs or at least another manufacturer.
Even the mighty Tesla compromised on this; the first Tesla-powered EV had a Toyota badge, the second was a modified Lotus design and the third, while very much a Tesla design, had Mercedes switchgear in the interior because they knew what corners could be cut at that stage.
The range-you-think-you-need is another good point; people don't actually need to go as far as they think they do in one go. But they do need to be able to charge up as quick as they can with an internal combustion engine, which currently isn't possible no matter how much you spend on an EV. So perhaps Dyson should've looked at creating a charger/battery combination that could rival refuelling times of a petrol/diesel pump. That would be truly revolutionary.
He can't even make his cordless vacuums last more than 50 mins how he gonna make an EV
He surely can make them last much longer. But are you paying.
Also the Dyson air filter was terribly designed
I make $10 everytime I sell a dyson vacuum so 50 mins is a long time.
Great informative video Rory. 😊👍🏻
His hoovers aren’t that good so I wouldn’t spend any money on one of his cars.
debatable
2:30 That is a gross oversimplification. The thing about going greener with the internal combustion engine is that there is a bigger payoff by trying to improve combustion itself than trying to improve how effectively you clean the exhaust gases. Exhaust cleaning itself can help you meet emissions requirements, but cars are already meeting those without the need for exotic new technology. On the other hand, raising efficiency and quality of combustion by a variety of means can get you better emissions, better performance, and better fuel mileage all at the same time, making it a more attractive upgrade from older technology.
This is where the profitability point sets in. You can't really sell "we have something better than your average catalytic converter!!!," because the people who care about that are regulatory bureaucrats. You can, however, sell that "we can get you a flatter torque curve and a wider power band and better fuel efficiency." Dyson's better exhaust cleaning system was probably legitimately impressive, but it was too shallow of a win to be worthwhile. Now, yes, if it required less wasted hydrocarbons, it probably could also save some fuel as well, but I doubt it could have done better than improving the engine itself.
And before you think about the timing of when manufacturers rolled out the sorts of new thermodynamic efficiency improvements we've seen in recent years as opposed to when Dyson proposed his exhaust cleaner... you have to realize the sorts of long turnaround times the auto industry has with respect to R&D. Even things as trivial as upgrading the displays on the center stack often has a 3-year turnaround time. Now try and imagine how long it would take to manage something on the drivetrain that really matters and even after trials and testing on mules and collecting data and validating the long-term reliability of the systems and only then going through the legal rigmarole and regulatory approval processes... you can imagine how many years in the making something like direct injection or counter-swirling valve seat geometry would have been. Chances are good that manufacturers had several other alternatives in the lab.
To be honest, the nature of emissions regulations is kind stupid, particularly in the U.S., though Europe is significantly more sensible in this regard. In the U.S. in particular, they are concerned with the composition of the exhaust per unit volume. The logic here is that the cars shouldn't be putting out very much nasty stuff like NOx or CO... Problem with that is that nobody drives according to units of exhaust volume! People drive according to distances they need to travel, and the methodology used doesn't scale appropriately with respect to mileage. It literally makes it possible for a Honda Civic and a Chevy Corvette to achieve similar emissions scores. Europe at least does a better job on this, but even there it's a bit problematic since their schedule is not too representative to the real driving behaviors within various countries.
Great video
I've never been convinced by anything made by Dyson
In my mind Dyson products are just too expensive for what they are and they feel like gimmicks wrapped in stylish shaped plastic
You got to be kidding me, right?! I too own 2 of his Dyson vacuum cleaners and over time found they were poorly designed and funny enough both batteries had to be replaced eventually! Thanks God he’s not designing a car let alone a EV!
You can't argue that Dyson's heart was in the right place.
Ah, yes you can. This was an expression of pique. He was being emotional and irrational.
No you can he was vain and irrational, the man has been a bit off in general lately. He was massively pro-Brexit but then once he got his way he moved Dysons HQ across to Singapore along with his residence.
Dyson's heart was and IS in mo money. Get a clue.
I love these videos. Rory is comfortably one of the best and most original car journalists. Awesome stuff
Dyson is so admirable. He’s so passionate in what he does. Hats off to this great man even though the car project didn’t work out.
I know people and partners who worked with him that would take opposite view (ruthless control freak is one comment). Personally, I had one of his products and I hold that the company sells massively overpriced and poorly engineered, unreliable crap (or semi crap) - but with design panache and good marketing. Ulimate in PT Barnum style over any substance .
bbbf09 cool bro.
@@bbbf09 I agree. Most of these companies are built on marketing. I'm not one of his fans. He's not a serious dude. Stick to overpriced vacuum cleaners.
Here in Holland, we know that Dyson stands for design and quality, ... two great purchasing motivators. Even for a car like this. For the wealthier ones among us, it could become "the thing to own" in a niche market, so I'm sure there would be buyers for a Dyson car. Pity he didn't make it. Nice review though; I enjoyed watching it. :-)
If Dyson was 30 years younger he may be the next steve jobs
He's not as rich as Jobs is he, but he's happy?
600 mile car journey does make sense. It makes sense since people want to "charge" their car less and have the freedom knowing that it will run out of juice after 600 miles. I feel Dyson should be in talks with TOGG and now allow his technology to go to waste.
Or, smoke & mirrors that was never going to work?
A almost 8 min vídeo that felt like 2 min
Great structure, kept my attention, congrats!
Shows how amazing Tesla is, they started from scratch. All respect to Dyson.
@johnDomain The fact that they're the leader in EVs? That no other company managed to catch up
@johnDomain Tesla is beyond amazing, it's scary where they are now. Going to be an Anti-Trust problem in over a decade. Newest Surviving Automaker going to be a Bully. Once thought Impossible.
Tesla started off from a Lotus. This car is 100% built from the ground up.
@@TheLewisw1396 You haven't been following. They ended up only using 5%, and they had to re-engineer and redesign the rest.
Ahmed Alhashmi Oh I have. It was actually closer to 7%. The overall percentage is largely irrelevant and of course an ICE and BEV don’t have not a lot in common. One of the hardest parts of car manufacture is the chassis as there’s tonnes of red tape, safety regulatory rules to abide by. That’s why they got help from Lotus. That’s why most car companies share chassis between models. As this is the foundation of the car you cannot say the roadster was from scratch. But there’s no shame on Tesla getting help from Lotus as they are one of the best when it comes to building lightweight sports cars
It's a very size efficient car. Three row wagon/crossover the size of a midsize sedan. The flat floor frees up space inside. I love they also put in minivan styled sliding doors.
Dyson hand dryer yet but Hoovers no I’ve got 1 in my shed and I get back to Miele
Miele make dyson look like plastic trash
Paul Green You kind of read my mind but I didn’t want to be so cynical on Daison, 😂
We have the hand dryers in our workplace. Not very hygenic at all.
Does anyone know where Peugeot are getting their electric car tech from .They seem to be entering the market with quite well developed models?
Rory: “surely, if anyone can make it work it’s him!”
Musk: “Hold my 🍺”
Dyson should make some type of air purifier for big cities
IntenseNetwork Aren’t thèse already called trees?
As we know that he is a major tax dodger, we can't exactly say that he sunk his personal money now, can we?
evrim Kaya There is a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. All the "tax the rich" idiots fail to realise that the rich simply go elsewhere when you tax them too much, and you end up getting nothing at all.
one of the biggest farm owners in the uk.......must like farming......or is there another reason.......💰💰💰
and he used tax payers money
Always dismissed the idea of a car made by a "vacuum cleaner company" but hearing more about the man himself i must say i really reapect his approach and ingenuity. Really informative vid btw👌
Narrator: "If anyone can make it work, it's him surely."
Elon Musk: I beg to differ
@@AzathothsAlarmClock $465M, which they paid back with interest.
Great vid Rory, you mentioned Tesla with Panasonic (CATL in China as well), but they are also about to mfr their own batteries using new chemistries and technologies they have been developing in-house. According to Reuters their new battery cost at the module level will be $80/kWh, it currently sits at $140/kWh
Thanks. They’re about to, yes. Although albeit still with help from partners like Panasonic I believe. I’ll do a story on it when it’s announced. -Rory
AutoTrader awesome cheers for the reply ✊
Did the Dyson suck 🤪 It only ran for 14 mins 😂
What I know is that the price of 'most' electric cars is prohibitively high for most of us. It occurred to me that if I bought a five year old Nissan Leaf costing roughly 5 grand, I could then buy a new battery from Nissan and virtually have a new car. I have read that Nissan will sell you the lastest battery they have for roughly 5 grand also. So all in all it costs somewhere close to 10 grand; that could be pounds or dollars,
Which by my reckoning is considerably cheaper than most EV's out there. And apart from anything else, who in there right mind buys a new car these days......
_Why go for a 7-seater 🤔 aren't the majority of car trips just the driver, maybe 1 passenger.._
Sometimes people tend to buy stuffs on the base of "Just in case". Just like how some of pickup truck owners buy pickup and never actually use neither the bed or the towing capability. When asked, some of them would probably say "But someday I'm probably gonna need it".
@@Arpin_Lusene Good point! I get the pick-up appeal, and some people like the styling 😀
But not many mini-vans come to mind that look good, imo.
Exactly. Each passenger is more dead weight and significantly reduced range. Put four adults in the car and the range is 50 miles, unless you use the air conditioner which is 25 mile range, and going up a steep hill knocks it down to 10 mile range. And of course the battery has lost 50% of it's charge capacity in 5 years; new batteries will set you back $15,000.
Definitely lease, don't buy. In five years technology will be 10 times better and a new car will have better range...for a much higher price
Most private car trips are for 1 person within 20 miles of home. Huge SUVs are not the answer. And any EV can do 30 miles a day.
Another great piece by Rory Reid, a much underrated motoring journalist. However, I suspect there's another reason in the mix as to why Dyson binned this project, and that's the forthcoming Rivian R1S (and R1T). Same concept (though max 400 mile range), and about to start production. Massively well funded, too.
With his level of innovation, a car (even with his name) was an exciting prospect. But yeah, probably too ambitious. Despite the popularity of SUV's (questionable), maybe his efforts should have gone more towards reinventing the sedan. (ie Jaguar I Pace). SUV's I feel are over played. Yeah you have a more commanding view of the road. But if everyone is in a SUV, you're back to where you started. Also, with European roads, a SUV is overkill.
Agree, but Jaguar iPace is a SUV.
I think you are at the top of the ladder for this kind of presentation. Excellent show. Every word interesting. No time wasting.
And I think Mr Dyson should work towards the other end of the line. Just as Mr Ford did. A car for the people. Affordable.
This is basically a regurgetation of the CAR manazine story from about 2 months ago. They even show the pictures and pages in absence of any direct contact with James Dyson. Let's put it down to working limitations due to Covid as you are usually much better on it than this.
In terms of cost Dyson is right that he won't make money. Tesla almost never have and the mainstream car manufacturers are struggling to make viable cost effective alternatives for consumers. For VW, Ford etc. think of it like this - cost of an EV = the ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle plus/minus about $12k. Growing numbers of customers are interested in EVs but until Total Cost of Ownership (through govt incentives and economies of scale) is at or close to parity to ICE then low take up and residual values will hold us all back from mass adoption.
Really well presented. Rory has an uncanny ability to make the complicated seem simple.
I couldn't afford to buy one but I would love to own one. I'd pick that over a Tesla anyday. I know I am going to aggravate all you Tesla fanboys, but I think Tesla is overrated. There. I said it
And why is it overrated?
@@kakerake6018 Watch some of Rich Rebuilds videos too see how p*ss poor their customer service is, their impressions on right to repair, their impressions on disabling features over the air because they say so and just how poor some of the build quality on their vehicles is and that's before you engage with the self righteous tw*ts that are part of the cult of Musk, indoctrinated in to his cabal by their ownership of one of the vehicles.
@@L8ugh1ngm8n1 Tesla is mostly followed like a cult due to the company and Musk having an inhumane drive to change the world and do it with software at the core. I would have bought my Telsa even if it had no doors let alone give a damn about customer support or build quality. May I add besides the doors having a terrible noise while closing them I find the Model 3 has a great quality overall.
Competing in the car industry is in itself an extremely tough job, and competing in it as a complete newcomer offering electric cars exclusively, against companies with many decades of experience behind them, AND WHO ARE BEING AWARDED HUGE SUBSIDIES TO DEVELOP e-CARS is practically mission impossible. So even Dyson failed in this quest. I am aware that electric cars are a technological challenge, but basically the motorisation must be simpler than that of a car which uses a combustion engine, so what is the big deal with the development costs ? Dacia has announced the launch of an electric car for next year, starting at around €11000, so if Dacia can do it, why did Dyson fail ??? I believe that the whole thing collapsed because Dyson wanted to show the world that he can do not only things that the car industry can do, but that he can do them much better ! If the concept had been a medium-sized car with an acceptable range, without all the gimmicks, then I believe that Dyson could have been successful in the car industry, too. 🤷🏼♂️
Dyson killed his EV project when he realised he doesn't have any of the expertise to make one. Also, Dyson products are worthless: they dont work well and die young. We owned two of his expensive vacuum cleaners and none cleaned well but both broke in a short time. Our Miele vacuum cleaner is 6 years old and still looks and acts new. And it was cheaper than a Dyson, strangely. I think Dysons are for morons.
I've have 2 dysons one a dc14 since 2007 bought from Curry's half price still working perfectly all parts are available on e-bay very cheap. Some people throw them away I usually end up fixing there old Dyson for £7 in parts. The whole thing comes apart like a kit with hardly any tool. If the car was as well made as his vacuum cleaner they were probably worth £150k especially if they lasted 20+ years
Great stuff. Those comments about automanufactures are spot on. The emissions lab is see as a necessary evil, an unwanted overhead.
and that's why Tesla is so far ahead of the rest. Dyson arrived 10 years too late
nonsense this man is already really rich he doesnt need to make EVs and many other companies are making EVs too
Nice video as always. Well balanced and informative. When ever the lock down is over you should interview these CEO's.
Dyson knows how to make money. He wants to make profit like the profit he makes on vacuum cleaners. Tesla are losing billions and not going to go to real profit ever. If he is saying that he needs to sell a car for $180000 so this is the price Tesla needs to sell the model 3
Tesla has driven down costs, rolling profits into aggressive expansion on three continents. They're in debt, but so are their competitors.
Great piece of journalism Rory. Never know about the Dyson exhaust.
Dyson has some impressive electric motor technology. That may have helped with the range. I would have loved to see this come to fruition. I wouldn’t be able to afford one, but I found the project to be extremely exciting.
I like this guy’s videos. Definitely subscribing since I haven’t so far, as I loved his video on Tesla, Alfa Romeo, and FCA. I like Dyson as a company as well. It’s a shame the car won’t come to fruition in the foreseeable future, but I’m glad there’s a worldwide movement towards electrification of the auto market. Looking forward to more sustainable energy as well!
Terminology help for whoever writes the overlays: kW = power, metric version of horsepower. kWh = energy, or how much you can use your power.
A Brazilian dude made It out of a wash machine's engine and gel batteries, sometimes peopple doesn't matter How smart they are, they try to reinvent the Wheel.
this video got me thinking of Rivian, the electric offroader that can do an onthespot turn like tank... it would be a shame if the also shutit down
Rory has come along leaps & bounds as a presenter these last few years, i always liked him but lately he's really really good
The battery technology for cars is getting better but still needs a lot more improvement to become more popular and a more viable option
Loving these sorts of videos.