Build a basic square tube chassis like the SEGA cars use, put the Plan Z body on it, continue with the project. A lot of work, but a great content producer. Slag Hammer is a hot rod, keep Plan Z a 60's era race car. Its one of the pillars of this channel.
Put the stick back in it. In your first video of this car from 4 years ago you said it didn’t run hard until the manual transmission was in it. Don’t worry about other people driving it
Plan Z has sentimental value for your viewers. The unorthodox combination of ultra lightweight swiss cheese body, 225 slant and the weak 7.5" rear that stood out form other project cars on youtube at the time. It was and is an underdog but it has the cool factor. It is impressive how much content you have made just on that car. Your leaning towards the "Mule" is very understandable. Go on, try new things! If you enjoy it, then i'm sure that viewers will too. Engine wise maybe don't go to turbo LS land, this has been covered in youtube for far too many times. But a working slant six draw-through turbo setup like you tinkered with couple of years ago- why the hell not? It won't be ultimate horsepower monster but it can be damn cheap to build with all the turbo cars going to junkyard these days.
Well said. Some of the comments overlook that he said everything would move over to the Charger and the same tests would continue. It doesn't mean anything to me, because I'm only interested in cause and effect, and not the car. For someone starting out, it's a good lesson that beyond a given point you will have to make hard choices that you won't like . Maybe I've become too optimistic?
Uncle Tony, I know you are very capable of making the decisions to come. PLEASE, if you're going to change cams, go with a higher operating rpm than 6000. Shoot for at least 7500 rpm. Then with the lower gears and new cam, you will be under carburated. Perfect opportunity to get some much needed data! Lol c'mon man.
Being an American I've never seen the slant 6 as more of anything than a dependable engine that would go 200,000 plus miles with regular maintenance. If you're going to move on past the Dart body and focus on the mule then give Plan Z away. Ask your viewers who would be interested in the car, they have to be able to come pick it up, and put their name up on a board. Then have Uncle Cathy throw a dart at the board to determine the winner. Might be interesting for you to see what someone else might do with the car.
Happy Father's Day brother. I think that dart is perfect for what you are doing, I know it's flaky inside..I've seen many that way. My advice is to build a back half to make it a solid structure. The outer part looks good and it's not twisting or that back glass would never survive. Do it the same way you did drilling the holes. A little at a time. It'll come together faster than you think. I thought the pass you made looked great by the way. If it gets up faster it'll run out fine, who wants to do faster than 100 in the 1/8th anyways...🤐😅🤫 You get what I mean. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. 😊
I love the process, and idea, of Plan Z. Taking us down the track today was awesome, and I could “feel” where it lagged at the line & top end. As you said, mid-range was solid though. Loved hearing about changing the rear, changing the planetary, and getting a new cam. All of this speaks directly to why I dig what you do; build everything, race anything…as for folding this into the mule, the concept is cool, but I have a concern - your ADD. You have focused on this and it’s awesome, you start folding in small blocks, big blocks, etc and the Slant is going to end up on a stand and go nowhere (slant Miata) You’ll get distracted… I really want to see the full fruition of this idea, and how much power you can really get out of a slant 6, because I love those engines! So, if you fold it into the mule, please stay focused on the Plan Z/slant 6 idea until it run it’s course. That’s my $.02 👍🏼
Yes and Yes !! Don't give up on the slant. Watching the Australian video on dyno tuning the mildly built slant with side draft Webers really impressed me. 280+ HP @ 6,000 290+ Lb-ft @ 4,000 with a really broad range, super impressive considering the less than great exhaust setup and mild (but well done) cylinder head. That engine was dialled in, and I suspect a single four barrel setup could equal or better those #'s on that same basic engine, especially with proper headers + exhaust.
@@zelenskysboot361 Yes, those guys pulled together a sweet running combination, and that stresses a point.....Combination ! I think Plan Z is struggling due to a mis-matched combo, and agree with Uncle Tony about the camshaft being potentially the issue. I became friends with a Bonneville racer back in the '80s, and watched him develop the Hudson 308 flathead six thru much trial and error. He managed to pull over 1HP / C.I. out of that flathead naturally aspirated on a 7.5:1 compression ratio (higher ratios killed breathing /HP, a flathead problem !! ) Real hot rodding can be challenging / disappointing at times, but tenacity, with a bit of luck, pays off !
I love the idea of Plan Z. That said, it's not worth back halfing that car just for what you're doing with it. I hate to see it go, but the mule car sounds like an overall superior educational implement. I, for one, respect what you have done with the slant, but support you putting your time and money where it will be the most fun! Otherwise it's just another job you hate...
I like how you start off with Good News and Bad News. It definitely brings up great Content on your Channel. Let’s break it down and Listen to Uncle Tony. 👍
And yes it is worth it to put it back together. You have a great platform. Any weaknes you find in the chassis can be repaired. Fabbing up some frame rails is fairly easy for guys like us. Make it close to stock. You don't need a pro stock chassis. There is a lot of potential in many areas for this car. The slant 6 plan is awesome. Stick with it.
James, he went into that about power adders and why he won't go that way, even though he does have lots of experience with them. I'm sorry I can't remember which video he discussed it, but it was basically wanting to remain Old School in what he does now. But definitely.... Twin turbos!! (And a broom to sweep reciprocating components off the track)😉👍
@@fastinradfordable ford fuel injection ok jeep > use their distributor and computer too ,have to admit that's a combination with enggeennerding all through it . each cylinder is tuned by spark plug resistance, beet that ! then turbo it, cause the valves are stinking small, , ok sodium filled stems if you need too . then water injection cause 1003 times expansion from L to G then may bee you'll have some pressure on the piston(300psi) past 30 degrees of top dead center......dubt it though...hey make it a steam engine ! long strokes work well there. 😅
Part of the fun thing to me with Plan Z, was seeing what the slant could do in a thoroughly lightened A body. Switching to a B body with enough beef to support a rowdy big block, would IMO hurt the impression of the slant
I think you should go with the mule for a few reasons. One, safety first, you don't want something to break going down the track and injure you. Two, it would be cool to see what a full body car would run with different combinations from a slanted 6 to a big block. Three, gives you more time to make combo changes instead of chasing cancer on a car.
Always loved the underdog planZ & it's been a very enjoyable series, but only serious mods are going to make it go faster with the non cross flow head although nitrous wold be an absolute blast along with a small to mid sized turbo or supercharger to liven it up in the 8th. I'm happy just to enjoy the route you take & always look forward to your videos, Stu in the UK 🇬🇧
Without extreme modification the "Hillside Hemi" is severely handicapped! The main reason is that the intake and exhaust are both on the same side of the head. It will never flow well! It has been great fun watching it develop... But there's a time when you have to decide if you are wasting time and resources on something with diminished returns, resources that could be better applied elsewhere. There are some very fast slants racing, they also have some very deep pockets! Continuing to run this in your "Mule" platform sounds like a good direction for the future. Not to mention saving another vehicle footprint of shop space!
I look forward to a test mule, but I suggest you give the Plan Z shell to someone who can reconstruct whats left for posterity. Between the history and the weight reduction done, it'd be nice to know it came back better than ever.
I would be proud to make regular passes at my local 8th mile track. I'd bring it for every test and tune night and grudge races against other 4 and 6 cyl cars in it's class. So what if it has car cancer.... If that's the case, run that sob until it's wheels literally fall off.
Tony, It's not breathing. Rework the head (port & polish maybe w/ 340cid exhaust valves) & flow-bench it to verify. Mill it 0.120" or so, so you can run high octane 104 av-gas (provided you can get some). Verify clearances of valves - to - piston w/ old school clay method prior to milling. Go to dual exhaust with an "X" pipe cross-over as close to the headers as you can get, so you get better scavenging and increased flow. (Check out the set-ups that "Clifford Performance" 6=8 offers and maybe copy that?) That's what I used for my build w/ their intake and a Holley 4bbl. Works REALLY well. It's possible that the locked static timing isn't working as planned? Possible mechanical advance and re-work the advance curve with the various springs available to fine tune the advance. You can do that on the bench with a "variac" transformer to vary the RPM's controlling a series motor to spin the distributor at various RPM's. Degree wheel, timing light, some HV & a tach. That way you can plot/graph the advance to see what works best for your set-up. All can be done on the cheap & totally "old-school".
I really like your thoughts on bringing the two projects together. I know it's very hard to abandon a project, but incorporating the two makes the most "cents".
Plan Z was built to a pretty small set of parameters - low HP, drag strip only use, and it has the current issues Tony listed off. I loved the slant 6 Miata content, the engine build for Plan Z, and the Plan Z related videos...... at this point I am fine moving on past Plan Z. I would rather UTG play around with a Mule and why not throw some Nitrous at it - or a turbo engine - or what UTG cooks up. The progression would be interesting - Slant 6, 318...then a big block. With whatever cheap "power adders" make sense - keeping with the theme of this channel. Trips to Mexico can be as much fun as the drag strip test runs.
Gosh, I REALLY like Plan Z in it's present form. To me Slant 6 equals A body. I think it's the platform (A body) that most people will hop up a slant 6 in. You are a Pro UT! Your television style magazine is superb, always looking forward to the next installment. I, personally, would like to see Plan Z continue like it is.......but ya gotta do what you think is best, respect you for that!
Swapping cams makes sense at this point . Figure out what that glass ceiling is doing there . I know you're a pro and I've watched your videes about distributors but still uncertain about ignition timing advance . It seems stock advance machinations aren't able to advance far enough for high revs . Especially for a long stroke application 😊😮😢. Thanks for getting Plan Z out to the track . Reaction time philosophy would make a great tutorial someday . ✌️
Do a leak down test...get a disc brake rotor/ball joint checker and dial the cam while it's still in the engine to make sure it's actually what it's supposed to be...and something in me wants to block off the hood scoop...might be leaning it out...only way I know to get a good read on the plugs is to shut off the ignition at the finish line and throw it into neutral...
Good plan especially given that the Dart is full of cancer. Being able to run around "Mexico" will help dial it in a lot faster with a minimum of aggravation.
With limited time and resources, I think it is always a good idea to pick your battles. My opinion is Plan Z ran its race and you need to focus on what appeals to you. Yes, your viewers have become attached to the projects and will have sadness seeing that one put on the shelf, however the best way forward is not always a straight line. My vote is to keep your sanity and not do drudgery type work to keep the idea alive. Just table it for another time and get going on what interests you (in the end this channel needs you to be engaged and inspired to have the heart and soul it has). I personally am anxiously waiting on your MPG build but the mule sounds like it could host that as well. Can you get 30-35 MPG out of a classic? Keep the fire stoked and the coffee hot! Go UTG team, we am here supporting you!
As a fellow mopar man I’m sad about plan z but stoked for the Mule to happen!! No LS crap though Tony! lol Great knowledge and content as usual! Keep it up! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Why do you fear getting your feeling hurt when a ls make good power with nothing special and just work with fi no crap carburetor that he clearly got no clue how to setup correctly
I gotta say uncle T, I agree with you that nitrous is probably the best/cheapest bang for the buck for making power with a slant 6, but i remember a few years back that video you made about understanding the slant 6, and the best in my opinion is probably a turbo considering what you mentioned about the slant 6 being velocity challenged, a turbo will take care of all that, although to be completely honest, building a turbo system for a slant 6 does not look fun considering the intake and exhaust are on the same side
Good stuff. As I recall that is the whiplash cam - the smallest Hughes cam. That probably peaks out around 4500rpm. The reworked 2bbl carb from Mission Impossible would probably match better. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
In Australia, we had An E38 265ci slant six for touring cars. Adv. Duration @ 0.050" Lobe C/Line Valve Lift Basic RPM Valve Inlet .Adv Duration 273° @ .050 .218° Lobe Centre line.108° Valve lift .481 th 750 - 5100 Good idle Hyd Exhaust Adv Duration .270° @ .050 .216° LOBE CENTRE line .111° Valve lift .476 th Hyd
Let the viewers decide, you can run a poll on your channel, I have seen other youtubers do it. Like A - scrap plan Z, B - rebuild the back end and fit a 8.25", C - repower plan Z with a 4.0 jeep motor, D - Keep going with the slant and make it go, E - Nitrous the slant, F - Turbo the slant. There is an option on you tube to run a poll, do a new video and in it have the poll about plan z, let your viewers decide on the way they want this project to go!!! Thanks Bruce from NZ
Just read a comment about making Plan Z a giveaway. Not a bad idea, and yes, interesting to see what someone else could do with it. Bite the bullet on this one Tony. As we get older, time is not on our side. Put your valuable time and energy into other projects like the Mule and enjoying your life generally. I don't know about you, but I'd like another hundred years to do all the things I want to. It's all about TIME, and there just isn't enough of it. Love your stuff. Take care.
The mule sounds great and will be a huge learning experience for a lot of people, I completely understand from a logistics point of view that plan z is an awful lot of work to get the shell up to scratch but please whatever you do and whatever comes of plan z don't scrap the shell I feel like it's escaped death once and still deserves another shot at life
O.K. Never give up ( Dan and Dani can help you with that one )…Rust never sleeps…Good luck finding a cam that ..pulls ..both at the bottom end ..and.. the top end …Good luck swapping all kinds of engines into ..one..car ..and..Happy Fathers Day ..Pops 😎🚗
I watch your channel faithfully but I’m not a big commenter. I think that you’re right about just adding the Plan Z concept to the mule car because like you said the car isn’t safe for speeds much over 90 mph and you have to trailer it to the track every time you want to try something with it because it’s not road worthy as where the mule car will give us the results that we all want to see from a slant 6 but you can just take a quick drive to Mexico and try out whatever it is you’re working on. Plus you’ll be able to spray it and we all know nitrous makes everything more fun until it isn’t fun lol. I’m for the mule car and stopping the work on the Plan Z car. You asked for us to comment so I did this time lol
What's interesting about this channel is watching you progress from theory to experimentation. For it to be authentic, sometimes it's probably NOT going to work. Watching that process -- of learning and reimagining -- is cool. In the spirit of that, if you think you've taken PlanZ as far as it'll go without essentially starting almost from scratch, and you want to take what you've learned and apply it to the mule, I think that's totally in-keeping with the ethos of the channel. The learning so far -- as I understand it -- is that the slant as it has a very narrow powerband, focused mostly on the mid-range and there isn't a lot of it. It sounds like it'll be going in a heavier car, so the focus could be make it breath and make more top end power and gear it appropriately OR use boost/nitrous to give it more torque to move the heavier car. Maybe that's an A/B test? Which approach is more effective? Most want the big HP number and chase peak power, but the other school of thought is that power under the curve -- making more power across the band -- matter as much or more.
I hear what you're saying Tony.....but you've come a long way with Plan Z, you've put a lot of time and effort into it. I think you oughta swap the cam and tune the engine accordingly, do the transmission gears, and just put it on the backburner until you can get a hold of steeper gears for the 7 1/4. You can still start putting the mule together in the meantime.
Why has the ‘68 Roadrunner been left in the garage and forgotten about??? There was no further videos about it. I was deeply upset. I have a ‘68 Sport Satellite with a swapped in ‘68 440HP
Tony don't know if you checked out ColdWarMotors but he's wearing your tee shirt as the new "Hi Perf" engine goes into his model T. 10:44 What about Car Craft 57 Chevy "Project X" ?
I've followed UTG for a long time but never made a comment until now. I really liked plan Z. This was one of my most favorite builds and series of videos along with Bottle Rocket. I have long been a believer in getting the most from a smaller package such as a 327 Chevy or 289 Ford or 318 Chrysler or even a Ford 300 I-6. I really want to build a hot 300 straight 6 some day. So this car interested me, and I shared the ups and downs with this one. Just my feelings but I think Uncle Tony is on the right track here. Under the circumstances I would scrap or sell Plan Z and put the motor and trans in the Mule and continue the experiment there on a better testing platform.
When you first said that it fell off at both ends, my first thought was to get more aggressive with the carb and check out the cam. But you're a better tuner than I could dream about.
Hey Tony, Tim here, yea, i agree, re-group the combo....the pass i saw works rite off of idle (which it shud), just no UMPH!!.....camshaft shud DEF be looked at, i agree with tranny gear change as well.....but dont do all that to suit yer motor thats flat......look at the motor/cam first........just a thought...BOY i dig plan Z, and i'm a die-hard Poncho dude.... haha.....change that cam first, then see what the deal is......I SO enjoy all of this. TY for makin my Sunday fun!!!......PEACE to you sir!!
You are probably right, if you do manage to get it down the track,will it hold together,not much car left to take a hit. Like the mule theory,coronets are nice cars,be good to see that happen. Enjoy your channel, keep it coming. 👍
I would suggest doing what you suggest your viewers do-change one thing at a time. Skip the 83/4 for now. Put the lower gears in the trans to get better acceleration out of the hole. Then try retarding the cam a bit to see if it wakes it up, up top. You may want to try twin carbs to improve flow distribution...
I remember back in the day and old man and his 13sec duster he said that he ran 513 gear ratio never said anything else about his set up but it moved for a 6cyl
Plan Z is my favorite, keep it as an ornament😅. I totally get what you saying I've got a 80s corolla which has also been infected by cancer but cant let go of it. This channel thought me to work with what you have, my plan was to keep this pne for racing and source a good one for the steet
I know this is months after the fact but I saw something today that made me think of Plan Z. I saw a Clifford intake manifold that has provisions for your heater hoses to connect to it and preheat the manifold. I'm not sure if that's something that would help your project or not but Plan Z came to mind when I saw it.
Tony - Totally on board with your plan. However, please consider this...how about trying to come up with a shorter set of tires and swap the cam before you take it apart? I'd really love to see the maximum potential of this set-up before you Dr. Frankenstein it into something else.
What ever your heart and mind brings to real life.I hope you have a great afternoon, a good evening and a great upcoming week. God bless you and your family. Was enjoyable video as always and I will be looking forward to seeing what you are going to come up with. Hopefully we see you soon.
I have to agree with Craig Davis put a used "pro mod " chassis under Planz and hang the panels on it. Them use it as the test mule. Lots of old tube chassis to be found cheap that would work for what your doing, then everything is based on changes to the drive train not the chassis so much. Put the weakest motor in and see what changing tires shocks rims gears as a progressive learning exercise goes.. Then NOS BIG MOTOR.
I still would like to see plan z make it to the magical number. Bit maybe that's where putting it aside or bringing in a high-school crew could essentially make that possible
I thoroughly enjoy watching your projects and believe that if you are saying the car would be sketchy at higher speeds, it's time to switch gears. Keep experimenting with this combo in a safer car, that has more versatility. Listening to the footage from inside the car you'd have to be deaf and dumb to not realize that she's a hollow shell. Hollow shells work great, on tube frames. I am curious about core shift on your block as far as cam bore height to main center and also wonder if she may not run a touch better with a cam that comes in at a lower RPM range? Either way, I'll watch and hope that you get the ol girl sorted. Best of luck, God Speed, and Happy Father's Day!
Tony sounds like your leaning toward retiring Plan Z. If thats what you go with I suggest pull off what ever you can use and have a memorial for the shell. That would be a fun video to watch. Tony what ever you decide will be great. Always a pleasure thanks for your videos.
Like the red white and blue car on the other channel, there comes a point where it becomes too structurally unsound and maybe even unsafe. maybe better to go a different direction.
Jeep Dana 30 or 35 rear axle with 4.88 or lower gears (5.13 or 5.38 if they’re available) and a power glide adapted in with 1.81 low gear and an 8 inch converter. Power glide is lighter and takes very little power to run, and the Dana 30 or 35 has the same attributes.
I look forward to the mule with all of the things you are planning for it yet I hate to see plan z body get abandoned I just really love that old car and would like to see it used for something good even if only a stock slant 6 and street driven if I had it I think I would do just that with it
May be a sort of tunnel ram effect that you are getting a little bit of boost in mid range based on the general average of how many sections of which inlet tunnels are fitting the RPM profiles, with some resonant throw-off everywhere else. But that is just a guess, and I'm sure you are well enough aware of all of that to deal with it, should that be the case. And if it ain't the case, ok.
Tony, I like the mule incorporation. It also fits well into our current day economy. I think that is a great idea and in the end, it might give you more space.
Build a basic square tube chassis like the SEGA cars use, put the Plan Z body on it, continue with the project. A lot of work, but a great content producer. Slag Hammer is a hot rod, keep Plan Z a 60's era race car. Its one of the pillars of this channel.
Put the stick back in it. In your first video of this car from 4 years ago you said it didn’t run hard until the manual transmission was in it. Don’t worry about other people driving it
Yes !!!! I was thinking the same thing
Plan Z has sentimental value for your viewers. The unorthodox combination of ultra lightweight swiss cheese body, 225 slant and the weak 7.5" rear that stood out form other project cars on youtube at the time. It was and is an underdog but it has the cool factor. It is impressive how much content you have made just on that car.
Your leaning towards the "Mule" is very understandable. Go on, try new things! If you enjoy it, then i'm sure that viewers will too. Engine wise maybe don't go to turbo LS land, this has been covered in youtube for far too many times. But a working slant six draw-through turbo setup like you tinkered with couple of years ago- why the hell not? It won't be ultimate horsepower monster but it can be damn cheap to build with all the turbo cars going to junkyard these days.
Well said.
Some of the comments overlook that he said everything would move over to the Charger and the same tests would continue. It doesn't mean anything to me, because I'm only interested in cause and effect, and not the car.
For someone starting out, it's a good lesson that beyond a given point you will have to make hard choices that you won't like . Maybe I've become too optimistic?
I'd second the pissing around with the slant
& it's such good fun on a budget which is right where your ethos delivers!🎉
Uncle Tony, I know you are very capable of making the decisions to come. PLEASE, if you're going to change cams, go with a higher operating rpm than 6000. Shoot for at least 7500 rpm. Then with the lower gears and new cam, you will be under carburated. Perfect opportunity to get some much needed data! Lol c'mon man.
Blow through?
Being an American I've never seen the slant 6 as more of anything than a dependable engine that would go 200,000 plus miles with regular maintenance. If you're going to move on past the Dart body and focus on the mule then give Plan Z away. Ask your viewers who would be interested in the car, they have to be able to come pick it up, and put their name up on a board. Then have Uncle Cathy throw a dart at the board to determine the winner. Might be interesting for you to see what someone else might do with the car.
Happy Father's Day brother. I think that dart is perfect for what you are doing, I know it's flaky inside..I've seen many that way. My advice is to build a back half to make it a solid structure. The outer part looks good and it's not twisting or that back glass would never survive. Do it the same way you did drilling the holes. A little at a time. It'll come together faster than you think. I thought the pass you made looked great by the way. If it gets up faster it'll run out fine, who wants to do faster than 100 in the 1/8th anyways...🤐😅🤫 You get what I mean. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. 😊
I love the process, and idea, of Plan Z. Taking us down the track today was awesome, and I could “feel” where it lagged at the line & top end. As you said, mid-range was solid though. Loved hearing about changing the rear, changing the planetary, and getting a new cam. All of this speaks directly to why I dig what you do; build everything, race anything…as for folding this into the mule, the concept is cool, but I have a concern - your ADD. You have focused on this and it’s awesome, you start folding in small blocks, big blocks, etc and the Slant is going to end up on a stand and go nowhere (slant Miata) You’ll get distracted… I really want to see the full fruition of this idea, and how much power you can really get out of a slant 6, because I love those engines! So, if you fold it into the mule, please stay focused on the Plan Z/slant 6 idea until it run it’s course. That’s my $.02 👍🏼
You Do, We Watch.. live it..
Keep on wrenching folk's
Yes and Yes !! Don't give up on the slant. Watching the Australian video on dyno tuning the mildly built slant with side draft Webers really impressed me. 280+ HP @ 6,000 290+ Lb-ft @ 4,000 with a really broad range, super impressive considering the less than great exhaust setup and mild (but well done) cylinder head. That engine was dialled in, and I suspect a single four barrel setup could equal or better those #'s on that same basic engine, especially with proper headers + exhaust.
Sounds like a decent power curve ,as we all know the HP/tq being equal at 5252(usually) , so it sounds like it's holding 280-290 from like 4-6k
That was an impressive video.
@@zelenskysboot361 Yes, those guys pulled together a sweet running combination, and that stresses a point.....Combination ! I think Plan Z is struggling due to a mis-matched combo, and agree with Uncle Tony about the camshaft being potentially the issue. I became friends with a Bonneville racer back in the '80s, and watched him develop the Hudson 308 flathead six thru much trial and error. He managed to pull over 1HP / C.I. out of that flathead naturally aspirated on a 7.5:1 compression ratio (higher ratios killed breathing /HP, a flathead problem !! ) Real hot rodding can be challenging / disappointing at times, but tenacity, with a bit of luck, pays off !
If they aren't equal, the curve is wrong. There is no way around it, torque (in ft-lbs) just IS equal to hp at 5252 rpm. Not usually, always.
I personally don't want to see Plan Z go anywhere, it's it own thing. And what really drew alot of us into the channel
No self delusion here. Good man.
Moving forward after learning.
I love the idea of Plan Z. That said, it's not worth back halfing that car just for what you're doing with it. I hate to see it go, but the mule car sounds like an overall superior educational implement. I, for one, respect what you have done with the slant, but support you putting your time and money where it will be the most fun! Otherwise it's just another job you hate...
The motor sounds great.
I like how you start off with Good News and Bad News. It definitely brings up great Content on your Channel. Let’s break it down and Listen to Uncle Tony. 👍
And yes it is worth it to put it back together. You have a great platform. Any weaknes you find in the chassis can be repaired. Fabbing up some frame rails is fairly easy for guys like us. Make it close to stock. You don't need a pro stock chassis. There is a lot of potential in many areas for this car. The slant 6 plan is awesome. Stick with it.
I think you're right about moving to the mule. Hardcore race cars are fun to look at and play with but you can't do much with them off a race track.
Turbo and intercool that slant!
That would be defeating the purpose of what he's doin
Agreed, I’m tired of seeing turbo 6cyl going against lower powered v8’s.
That story is getting a bit played out.
Then he would have to digitise it - not going to happen (unfortunately)
You guys are completely missing one of the points talked about in this video. Rear section 7:51. Front section 8:31
James, he went into that about power adders and why he won't go that way, even though he does have lots of experience with them. I'm sorry I can't remember which video he discussed it, but it was basically wanting to remain Old School in what he does now.
But definitely.... Twin turbos!!
(And a broom to sweep reciprocating components off the track)😉👍
It would be interesting to put the 6 on an engine dyno. Not a chassis dyno. Play with the timing, see what the AFR looks like , etc.
Its been done.
Because of the wide manifold you end up with diff fuel ratio on each cylinder.
Aka rich on center
Lean on outside
@@fastinradfordabledid you watch the video where he explains all of that, and what he did to solve that? Just asking.
@@fastinradfordable ford fuel injection ok jeep > use their distributor and computer too ,have to admit that's a combination with enggeennerding all through it . each cylinder is tuned by spark plug resistance, beet that ! then turbo it, cause the valves are stinking small, , ok sodium filled stems if you need too . then water injection cause 1003 times expansion from L to G then may bee you'll have some pressure on the piston(300psi) past 30 degrees of top dead center......dubt it though...hey make it a steam engine ! long strokes work well there. 😅
@@stephenmoulton9284 lol moron shut your mouth you make no sense and clearly know nothing about engine lol
Just transfer the holes and parts over to the green one u painted awhile back
Part of the fun thing to me with Plan Z, was seeing what the slant could do in a thoroughly lightened A body.
Switching to a B body with enough beef to support a rowdy big block, would IMO hurt the impression of the slant
I think you should go with the mule for a few reasons. One, safety first, you don't want something to break going down the track and injure you. Two, it would be cool to see what a full body car would run with different combinations from a slanted 6 to a big block. Three, gives you more time to make combo changes instead of chasing cancer on a car.
I think the mule car makes good sense Uncle Tony. Multi purpose with many options.
Always loved the underdog planZ & it's been a very enjoyable series, but only serious mods are going to make it go faster with the non cross flow head although nitrous wold be an absolute blast along with a small to mid sized turbo or supercharger to liven it up in the 8th. I'm happy just to enjoy the route you take & always look forward to your videos, Stu in the UK 🇬🇧
Im okay with Z Mule plan. Do whatever you think makes the best content. You've done great so far. Thanks
it doesn't matter what you do to a Slant 6, it's only going to make power up to 5500 rpm's
Without extreme modification the "Hillside Hemi" is severely handicapped!
The main reason is that the intake and exhaust are both on the same side of the head. It will never flow well!
It has been great fun watching it develop...
But there's a time when you have to decide if you are wasting time and resources on something with diminished returns, resources that could be better applied elsewhere.
There are some very fast slants racing, they also have some very deep pockets! Continuing to run this in your "Mule" platform sounds like a good direction for the future. Not to mention saving another vehicle footprint of shop space!
I look forward to a test mule, but I suggest you give the Plan Z shell to someone who can reconstruct whats left for posterity. Between the history and the weight reduction done, it'd be nice to know it came back better than ever.
Maybe Kiwi sounds like the master for the job.
You hear him say it’s modified beyond what should come back to the street.
You are gaslighting him
I would be proud to make regular passes at my local 8th mile track. I'd bring it for every test and tune night and grudge races against other 4 and 6 cyl cars in it's class. So what if it has car cancer.... If that's the case, run that sob until it's wheels literally fall off.
@@fastinradfordable 🤔 I think you might be confused as to what gaslighting means.
Silly question however are you sure you're getting full travel on your throttle linkage?
Tony,
It's not breathing. Rework the head (port & polish maybe w/ 340cid exhaust valves) & flow-bench it to verify. Mill it 0.120" or so, so you can run high octane 104 av-gas (provided you can get some). Verify clearances of valves - to - piston w/ old school clay method prior to milling.
Go to dual exhaust with an "X" pipe cross-over as close to the headers as you can get, so you get better scavenging and increased flow. (Check out the set-ups that "Clifford Performance" 6=8 offers and maybe copy that?) That's what I used for my build w/ their intake and a Holley 4bbl. Works REALLY well.
It's possible that the locked static timing isn't working as planned? Possible mechanical advance and re-work the advance curve with the various springs available to fine tune the advance. You can do that on the bench with a "variac" transformer to vary the RPM's controlling a series motor to spin the distributor at various RPM's. Degree wheel, timing light, some HV & a tach. That way you can plot/graph the advance to see what works best for your set-up. All can be done on the cheap & totally "old-school".
Rolling dyno and mexico is hot. Brings back my 60's youth.
I really like your thoughts on bringing the two projects together. I know it's very hard to abandon a project, but incorporating the two makes the most "cents".
Plan Z was built to a pretty small set of parameters - low HP, drag strip only use, and it has the current issues Tony listed off. I loved the slant 6 Miata content, the engine build for Plan Z, and the Plan Z related videos...... at this point I am fine moving on past Plan Z. I would rather UTG play around with a Mule and why not throw some Nitrous at it - or a turbo engine - or what UTG cooks up. The progression would be interesting - Slant 6, 318...then a big block. With whatever cheap "power adders" make sense - keeping with the theme of this channel. Trips to Mexico can be as much fun as the drag strip test runs.
Gosh, I REALLY like Plan Z in it's present form. To me Slant 6 equals A body. I think it's the platform (A body) that most people will hop up a slant 6 in. You are a Pro UT! Your television style magazine is superb, always looking forward to the next installment. I, personally, would like to see Plan Z continue like it is.......but ya gotta do what you think is best, respect you for that!
Swapping cams makes sense at this point . Figure out what that glass ceiling is doing there . I know you're a pro and I've watched your videes about distributors but still uncertain about ignition timing advance . It seems stock advance machinations aren't able to advance far enough for high revs . Especially for a long stroke application 😊😮😢. Thanks for getting Plan Z out to the track . Reaction time philosophy would make a great tutorial someday . ✌️
rust never sleeps
The Mule is a fantastic idea. Excited to see what you all come up with.
Do a leak down test...get a disc brake rotor/ball joint checker and dial the cam while it's still in the engine to make sure it's actually what it's supposed to be...and something in me wants to block off the hood scoop...might be leaning it out...only way I know to get a good read on the plugs is to shut off the ignition at the finish line and throw it into neutral...
Good plan especially given that the Dart is full of cancer. Being able to run around "Mexico" will help dial it in a lot faster with a minimum of aggravation.
With limited time and resources, I think it is always a good idea to pick your battles. My opinion is Plan Z ran its race and you need to focus on what appeals to you. Yes, your viewers have become attached to the projects and will have sadness seeing that one put on the shelf, however the best way forward is not always a straight line. My vote is to keep your sanity and not do drudgery type work to keep the idea alive. Just table it for another time and get going on what interests you (in the end this channel needs you to be engaged and inspired to have the heart and soul it has). I personally am anxiously waiting on your MPG build but the mule sounds like it could host that as well. Can you get 30-35 MPG out of a classic? Keep the fire stoked and the coffee hot! Go UTG team, we am here supporting you!
Pull the plug on "Z". The idea is great but the foundation will always be suspect. The "mule" sounds more fun.
I think you have the right idea, ditch the “A” body & bring out the test mule that can be Street-able!
Marty G
That Slant six sounds like a sewing machine, and I love it
As a fellow mopar man I’m sad about plan z but stoked for the Mule to happen!! No LS crap though Tony! lol Great knowledge and content as usual! Keep it up! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Why do you fear getting your feeling hurt when a ls make good power with nothing special and just work with fi no crap carburetor that he clearly got no clue how to setup correctly
This time get a car that's worth a sh*t as a starting point
Please don't give up on this car. Gear it, find a cam it it can't do any more after that then Ok but not yet. I think it is great content.
Have you had the head on the slant 6 flowed to see what it does? That can definitely hinder power at 5K and above no matter what cam is in it.
I gotta say uncle T, I agree with you that nitrous is probably the best/cheapest bang for the buck for making power with a slant 6, but i remember a few years back that video you made about understanding the slant 6, and the best in my opinion is probably a turbo considering what you mentioned about the slant 6 being velocity challenged, a turbo will take care of all that, although to be completely honest, building a turbo system for a slant 6 does not look fun considering the intake and exhaust are on the same side
It’s a waste of time really. Always going to take a nap while it goes down the track. But I give you kudos for having daily content Tony .
Good stuff. As I recall that is the whiplash cam - the smallest Hughes cam. That probably peaks out around 4500rpm. The reworked 2bbl carb from Mission Impossible would probably match better. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
The Belvedere mule is what happens when...
project X, meets plan Z (and helps teach us Y)
the car kind of meets in the middle anyway.😉🙃
I like the "economist" arguments that ended up with "Sunk Costs" and "ROI" as to the plan Z. Tony's a regular Mises Institute type thinker!! 💸💰
I agree with everything you said & that Charger looks good too 👍
In Australia, we had An E38 265ci slant six for touring cars.
Adv. Duration @ 0.050" Lobe C/Line Valve Lift Basic RPM Valve
Inlet .Adv Duration 273°
@ .050 .218°
Lobe Centre line.108°
Valve lift .481
th 750 - 5100 Good idle Hyd
Exhaust Adv Duration .270°
@ .050 .216°
LOBE CENTRE line .111°
Valve lift .476 th Hyd
Learning curves never stop. I doubt Smoky Yunik stopped learning. Keep at it
Let the viewers decide, you can run a poll on your channel, I have seen other youtubers do it. Like A - scrap plan Z, B - rebuild the back end and fit a 8.25", C - repower plan Z with a 4.0 jeep motor, D - Keep going with the slant and make it go, E - Nitrous the slant, F - Turbo the slant. There is an option on you tube to run a poll, do a new video and in it have the poll about plan z, let your viewers decide on the way they want this project to go!!! Thanks Bruce from NZ
how much power can a basically stock slant take before it spits out the crank
Just read a comment about making Plan Z a giveaway. Not a bad idea, and yes, interesting to see what someone else could do with it. Bite the bullet on this one Tony. As we get older, time is not on our side. Put your valuable time and energy into other projects like the Mule and enjoying your life generally. I don't know about you, but I'd like another hundred years to do all the things I want to. It's all about TIME, and there just isn't enough of it. Love your stuff. Take care.
The mule sounds great and will be a huge learning experience for a lot of people, I completely understand from a logistics point of view that plan z is an awful lot of work to get the shell up to scratch but please whatever you do and whatever comes of plan z don't scrap the shell I feel like it's escaped death once and still deserves another shot at life
Tony - Put a 100 shot on Plan Z & send 'er out in a blaze of glory! We'll all salute you!
As my Dear Old Dad used to say "Son Ur chasing a fart in a wind storm".
O.K. Never give up ( Dan and Dani can help you with that one )…Rust never sleeps…Good luck finding a cam that ..pulls ..both at the bottom end ..and.. the top end …Good luck swapping all kinds of engines into ..one..car ..and..Happy Fathers Day ..Pops 😎🚗
I watch your channel faithfully but I’m not a big commenter. I think that you’re right about just adding the Plan Z concept to the mule car because like you said the car isn’t safe for speeds much over 90 mph and you have to trailer it to the track every time you want to try something with it because it’s not road worthy as where the mule car will give us the results that we all want to see from a slant 6 but you can just take a quick drive to Mexico and try out whatever it is you’re working on. Plus you’ll be able to spray it and we all know nitrous makes everything more fun until it isn’t fun lol. I’m for the mule car and stopping the work on the Plan Z car. You asked for us to comment so I did this time lol
That was still a very respectable run for no better gear that she's got. She sounds like she could still pull hard with the steeper gearing...
What's interesting about this channel is watching you progress from theory to experimentation. For it to be authentic, sometimes it's probably NOT going to work. Watching that process -- of learning and reimagining -- is cool. In the spirit of that, if you think you've taken PlanZ as far as it'll go without essentially starting almost from scratch, and you want to take what you've learned and apply it to the mule, I think that's totally in-keeping with the ethos of the channel.
The learning so far -- as I understand it -- is that the slant as it has a very narrow powerband, focused mostly on the mid-range and there isn't a lot of it. It sounds like it'll be going in a heavier car, so the focus could be make it breath and make more top end power and gear it appropriately OR use boost/nitrous to give it more torque to move the heavier car. Maybe that's an A/B test? Which approach is more effective? Most want the big HP number and chase peak power, but the other school of thought is that power under the curve -- making more power across the band -- matter as much or more.
UTG Plan Z is perfect, as it was designed from the start just get the most from the least.
I hear what you're saying Tony.....but you've come a long way with Plan Z, you've put a lot of time and effort into it. I think you oughta swap the cam and tune the engine accordingly, do the transmission gears, and just put it on the backburner until you can get a hold of steeper gears for the 7 1/4. You can still start putting the mule together in the meantime.
Why has the ‘68 Roadrunner been left in the garage and forgotten about???
There was no further videos about it.
I was deeply upset. I have a ‘68 Sport Satellite with a swapped in ‘68 440HP
Tony don't know if you checked out ColdWarMotors but he's wearing your tee shirt as the new "Hi Perf" engine goes into his model T.
10:44 What about Car Craft 57 Chevy "Project X" ?
Slant 6 is a good candidate for creating content. Keep going!
I've followed UTG for a long time but never made a comment until now. I really liked plan Z. This was one of my most favorite builds and series of videos along with Bottle Rocket. I have long been a believer in getting the most from a smaller package such as a 327 Chevy or 289 Ford or 318 Chrysler or even a Ford 300 I-6. I really want to build a hot 300 straight 6 some day. So this car interested me, and I shared the ups and downs with this one. Just my feelings but I think Uncle Tony is on the right track here. Under the circumstances I would scrap or sell Plan Z and put the motor and trans in the Mule and continue the experiment there on a better testing platform.
I see old school front engine dragsters for sale occasionally for not a ton of $$. I think that would be a cool slant platform.
When you first said that it fell off at both ends, my first thought was to get more aggressive with the carb and check out the cam. But you're a better tuner than I could dream about.
I don’t think I like where this conversation is headed.
Like it or not Plan Z!! Is an icon. Not to be discarded because it needs a “little work”.
Hey Tony,
Tim here, yea, i agree, re-group the combo....the pass i saw works rite off of idle (which it shud), just no UMPH!!.....camshaft shud DEF be looked at, i agree with tranny gear change as well.....but dont do all that to suit yer motor thats flat......look at the motor/cam first........just a thought...BOY i dig plan Z, and i'm a die-hard Poncho dude.... haha.....change that cam first, then see what the deal is......I SO enjoy all of this. TY for makin my Sunday fun!!!......PEACE to you sir!!
You are probably right, if you do manage to get it down the track,will it hold together,not much car left to take a hit. Like the mule theory,coronets are nice cars,be good to see that happen. Enjoy your channel, keep it coming. 👍
I think that plan Z should be sent to the graveyard for helping other As to live, JMO, the Belvedere if solid has better bones for what you’re doing.
Wait to change the gearing of the transmission, swap in the 8 3/4” with a set of 4.88’s
The dollars don't add up to common sense with this one Tony. A hobbyist at home would be better off starting over with a car that is worth it.
Congrats on 300k uncle T. I've been hear awhile
I would suggest doing what you suggest your viewers do-change one thing at a time. Skip the 83/4 for now. Put the lower gears in the trans to get better acceleration out of the hole. Then try retarding the cam a bit to see if it wakes it up, up top. You may want to try twin carbs to improve flow distribution...
I could be wrong but it sounds like you might have enough lift but not enough duration in your camp😊
What I'd love to see tested in the mule is a straight up 383, no stroker stuff, single 4bbl and mufflers. What can you get out of that?
I remember back in the day and old man and his 13sec duster he said that he ran 513 gear ratio never said anything else about his set up but it moved for a 6cyl
Plan Z is my favorite, keep it as an ornament😅. I totally get what you saying I've got a 80s corolla which has also been infected by cancer but cant let go of it. This channel thought me to work with what you have, my plan was to keep this pne for racing and source a good one for the steet
I know this is months after the fact but I saw something today that made me think of Plan Z. I saw a Clifford intake manifold that has provisions for your heater hoses to connect to it and preheat the manifold.
I'm not sure if that's something that would help your project or not but Plan Z came to mind when I saw it.
Tony - Totally on board with your plan. However, please consider this...how about trying to come up with a shorter set of tires and swap the cam before you take it apart? I'd really love to see the maximum potential of this set-up before you Dr. Frankenstein it into something else.
What ever your heart and mind brings to real life.I hope you have a great afternoon, a good evening and a great upcoming week. God bless you and your family. Was enjoyable video as always and I will be looking forward to seeing what you are going to come up with. Hopefully we see you soon.
I have to agree with Craig Davis put a used "pro mod " chassis under Planz and hang the panels on it. Them use it as the test mule. Lots of old tube chassis to be found cheap that would work for what your doing, then everything is based on changes to the drive train not the chassis so much. Put the weakest motor in and see what changing tires shocks rims gears as a progressive learning exercise goes.. Then NOS BIG MOTOR.
That's the coolest view from the time slip booth ever!
All I got to say is, What a wholesome comment section.
I think I got it figured out Tony, sounds like you dropped a couple cylinders! That'll make it suck at the front end and the big end.
I still would like to see plan z make it to the magical number. Bit maybe that's where putting it aside or bringing in a high-school crew could essentially make that possible
I thoroughly enjoy watching your projects and believe that if you are saying the car would be sketchy at higher speeds, it's time to switch gears. Keep experimenting with this combo in a safer car, that has more versatility. Listening to the footage from inside the car you'd have to be deaf and dumb to not realize that she's a hollow shell. Hollow shells work great, on tube frames. I am curious about core shift on your block as far as cam bore height to main center and also wonder if she may not run a touch better with a cam that comes in at a lower RPM range? Either way, I'll watch and hope that you get the ol girl sorted. Best of luck, God Speed, and Happy Father's Day!
Sir you are an inspiration for many including myself. Love your enthusiasm for these old classics! Thank you Chris 🇨🇦
Tony sounds like your leaning toward retiring Plan Z. If thats what you go with I suggest pull off what ever you can use and have a memorial for the shell. That would be a fun video to watch. Tony what ever you decide will be great. Always a pleasure thanks for your videos.
Like the red white and blue car on the other channel, there comes a point where it becomes too structurally unsound and maybe even unsafe. maybe better to go a different direction.
Jeep Dana 30 or 35 rear axle with 4.88 or lower gears (5.13 or 5.38 if they’re available) and a power glide adapted in with 1.81 low gear and an 8 inch converter. Power glide is lighter and takes very little power to run, and the Dana 30 or 35 has the same attributes.
I look forward to the mule with all of the things you are planning for it yet I hate to see plan z body get abandoned I just really love that old car and would like to see it used for something good even if only a stock slant 6 and street driven if I had it I think I would do just that with it
yes I agree
Love the mule car concept
not over how great the new trailer is...😍
May be a sort of tunnel ram effect that you are getting a little bit of boost in mid range based on the general average of how many sections of which inlet tunnels are fitting the RPM profiles, with some resonant throw-off everywhere else.
But that is just a guess, and I'm sure you are well enough aware of all of that to deal with it, should that be the case.
And if it ain't the case, ok.
Tony, I like the mule incorporation. It also fits well into our current day economy. I think that is a great idea and in the end, it might give you more space.
Lemme tell ya what I learned. I learned you're good at making cars go slow. remember thou it's
not how slow you go...It's how you go slow. 😂