Ergs don’t have the same level of variability of foot position as boats, so constrain your options. We are primarily concerned with making boats go faster. Thus we should do the experimentation and measurements in boats rather than on the erg. Unless we can have the same foot plate variability available on the erg.
How does foot size influence the foot position? How does foot plate angle interact with height? Would it for example make sense to decrease the angle as the feet move higher?
I disagree with a lot of what your guest is saying. Raising the feet is a compensation for poor ROM around the ankle IMO. So rather than addressing the symptom this only addresses the sign IMO. Ok re horizontal force and moving to the finish line, that’s well and good. What’s your solution for correcting ankles that come off the footplate at the catch if you couldn’t adjust the feet height? If what we should be focusing on is rate of force development in rowers and since we coach it in the S&C training we should be looking for rowers to have heels on the footplate all the time. Helps with “connection” too IMO.
Thanks for this Luke! Great feedback. I would counter and say that getting a flat foot to push on the boards is the goal.... but how do we get there? Of course mobility is an essential tool for any modern coach, but rigging is an available variable. You can change the rigging and stretch, they aren't mutually exclusive. For my athlete's mobility I use nerve glides, ankle circles, big toe activations and stretching my arches. Foam rolling helps too but I prefer active ranges and proprioceptive input. It has improved power a lot in tandem with the rigging changes. LMK if you ever want to dig in more to what kind of mobility I specifically practice and we can get into it. Thanks for acknowledging the horizontal force production. When I looked at raising the feet, it was to get the handle and shoes closer together, not to compensate for any one person's mobility. In my mind as a coach it is the same as a deadlift. No good strength coach would have their athlete set up a deadlift with the bar 12-16 inches away from their shins, but that is what we often create with rowing in a bent over and low-footed position.
@@julianstephanski9524 Fair points Julian. My approach would be more active when looking to improve mobility. I found the stretching and FRing is well and good but what's made the most difference from my experience is exercises that focus on primary movers around the knee and ankle. Exercises like a standing 3-way heel raise, supine physioball pull-in for the hamstrings etc. The reason I think these are effective (not because of any research mind you) is due to increased activation and deactivation of this muscles so when the body goes to a catch position the muscles that need to relax can do so right before the drive phase muscles take over. Similar to how an effective warm up helps facilitate quicker agonist activation and antagonist relaxation. Something I like to keep in mind on a stationary C2 is that achieving a good catch position can be a little passive with help from the body's momentum moving down the track. Compared to rowing on sliders, C2 dynamic, or an RP3 the muscle actions to get to the catch position are more active, especially for the hamstrings (heels to wheels approach rather than wheels to heels). Keeping that in mind talking about the catch on a C2 I think the muscle actions (and inaction) around the knee and ankle are quite different while they engage with the forces coming at them down the slide track. Can I prove it? Not today but perhaps some day! WRT the handle position in your deadlift and handle comparison. What I would call this is suspension i.e. the distance between the handle and the feet in the boat at the catch position w/ blades in the water. Too much suspension (great distance between the two) means less hang off the oar, less body weight behind the drive, and likely almost perpendicular arms to the boat (rower has to work harder to get blades in and hang on since gates are likely too high). Very little suspension brings the hands closer to the toes, changes the angle of the spine and can be harder to get efficient hang for horizontal force by creating more vertical force at the catch so the gates might be too low. I'm looking for a sweet spot between too high and too low where the arms are 70-80 degrees up from the hips, arms out in front (range might even be too generous). 90 being to high. Similar to your own 12-16 inches from the shins but with gravity acting on us differently. Perhaps we are actually on the same page here and just trying to figure out each others perspectives. Either way, I'm not engaging with the above to convince you or anyone else I'm correct and you are incorrect. More of a growth mindset and sharing of knowledge.
Interesting points. One thing that always stops me from bringing the stretcher up on the erg is, that the strap then ist on a part of the foot where it hinders lifting the heel or even hurts (it's different in the boat). One thing to note is also, that this probably has a lot to do with body proportions and length of extremities especially length of upper and lower part of the leg.
@20:50 - Totally agree here. I keep the straps fairly loose to help with this. Proportions definitely make a difference. The longer the legs are, the less room for body over an athlete will have. This is why I encourage long legged athletes to sit more upright and bend their knees fully. If your long legs are your best asset as a rower.... use all of them! Don't take away your athletes long levers by squeezing their chest into the way of the knees rising.
@@julianstephanski9524 Thanks for the answer/clarification. I am always trying stuff with stretcher height on the erg. Loose straps are only a problem, when you do longer high rate workouts. 😀
Ergs don’t have the same level of variability of foot position as boats, so constrain your options. We are primarily concerned with making boats go faster. Thus we should do the experimentation and measurements in boats rather than on the erg. Unless we can have the same foot plate variability available on the erg.
How does foot size influence the foot position? How does foot plate angle interact with height? Would it for example make sense to decrease the angle as the feet move higher?
I disagree with a lot of what your guest is saying. Raising the feet is a compensation for poor ROM around the ankle IMO. So rather than addressing the symptom this only addresses the sign IMO.
Ok re horizontal force and moving to the finish line, that’s well and good.
What’s your solution for correcting ankles that come off the footplate at the catch if you couldn’t adjust the feet height? If what we should be focusing on is rate of force development in rowers and since we coach it in the S&C training we should be looking for rowers to have heels on the footplate all the time. Helps with “connection” too IMO.
Thanks for this Luke! Great feedback.
I would counter and say that getting a flat foot to push on the boards is the goal.... but how do we get there? Of course mobility is an essential tool for any modern coach, but rigging is an available variable. You can change the rigging and stretch, they aren't mutually exclusive. For my athlete's mobility I use nerve glides, ankle circles, big toe activations and stretching my arches. Foam rolling helps too but I prefer active ranges and proprioceptive input. It has improved power a lot in tandem with the rigging changes. LMK if you ever want to dig in more to what kind of mobility I specifically practice and we can get into it.
Thanks for acknowledging the horizontal force production. When I looked at raising the feet, it was to get the handle and shoes closer together, not to compensate for any one person's mobility. In my mind as a coach it is the same as a deadlift. No good strength coach would have their athlete set up a deadlift with the bar 12-16 inches away from their shins, but that is what we often create with rowing in a bent over and low-footed position.
@@julianstephanski9524 Fair points Julian. My approach would be more active when looking to improve mobility. I found the stretching and FRing is well and good but what's made the most difference from my experience is exercises that focus on primary movers around the knee and ankle. Exercises like a standing 3-way heel raise, supine physioball pull-in for the hamstrings etc. The reason I think these are effective (not because of any research mind you) is due to increased activation and deactivation of this muscles so when the body goes to a catch position the muscles that need to relax can do so right before the drive phase muscles take over. Similar to how an effective warm up helps facilitate quicker agonist activation and antagonist relaxation.
Something I like to keep in mind on a stationary C2 is that achieving a good catch position can be a little passive with help from the body's momentum moving down the track. Compared to rowing on sliders, C2 dynamic, or an RP3 the muscle actions to get to the catch position are more active, especially for the hamstrings (heels to wheels approach rather than wheels to heels). Keeping that in mind talking about the catch on a C2 I think the muscle actions (and inaction) around the knee and ankle are quite different while they engage with the forces coming at them down the slide track. Can I prove it? Not today but perhaps some day!
WRT the handle position in your deadlift and handle comparison. What I would call this is suspension i.e. the distance between the handle and the feet in the boat at the catch position w/ blades in the water. Too much suspension (great distance between the two) means less hang off the oar, less body weight behind the drive, and likely almost perpendicular arms to the boat (rower has to work harder to get blades in and hang on since gates are likely too high). Very little suspension brings the hands closer to the toes, changes the angle of the spine and can be harder to get efficient hang for horizontal force by creating more vertical force at the catch so the gates might be too low. I'm looking for a sweet spot between too high and too low where the arms are 70-80 degrees up from the hips, arms out in front (range might even be too generous). 90 being to high. Similar to your own 12-16 inches from the shins but with gravity acting on us differently.
Perhaps we are actually on the same page here and just trying to figure out each others perspectives. Either way, I'm not engaging with the above to convince you or anyone else I'm correct and you are incorrect. More of a growth mindset and sharing of knowledge.
Interesting points.
One thing that always stops me from bringing the stretcher up on the erg is, that the strap then ist on a part of the foot where it hinders lifting the heel or even hurts (it's different in the boat).
One thing to note is also, that this probably has a lot to do with body proportions and length of extremities especially length of upper and lower part of the leg.
@20:50 - Totally agree here. I keep the straps fairly loose to help with this.
Proportions definitely make a difference. The longer the legs are, the less room for body over an athlete will have. This is why I encourage long legged athletes to sit more upright and bend their knees fully. If your long legs are your best asset as a rower.... use all of them! Don't take away your athletes long levers by squeezing their chest into the way of the knees rising.
@@julianstephanski9524 Thanks for the answer/clarification.
I am always trying stuff with stretcher height on the erg. Loose straps are only a problem, when you do longer high rate workouts. 😀
Make the strap move with the stretcher. In the boat that is what happens. Modify the rowing machine stretcher to.work like the foot plate in the boat