The Harsh Truth About British Basketball…
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- 🏀🔥 Welcome back to Roti luvs Hoops - your go-to destination for engaging basketball discussions and insights! 🏀🔥
In our latest exploration, we delve into a topic close to home: "The Harsh Truth About British Basketball." This video isn't just about scores and highlights; it's an in-depth look at the struggles and challenges faced by basketball in the UK. 🇬🇧
🔍 We're tackling tough questions:
Why hasn't British basketball achieved more success both domestically and internationally? 🌍
What are the systemic issues holding back the growth of the sport in the UK? ⛹️♂️
How do these challenges compare with basketball scenes in other countries, like the US? 🏀
📈 This video provides:
A candid analysis of the British basketball system 📊
Interviews with players, coaches, and experts 🎤
Insights into potential solutions for the future of UK basketball 🌟
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➡️ COMMENT with your views on the state of British basketball.
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#basketball #UKBasketball #britishbasketball #nba
Great video, the reality is that we cannot afford to keep any of our talents cause the developement program here is shocking compared to America and even other places in Europe. If we were to keep our talents such as Sochan they would definitely not develop into the stars they are today. Basketball is so popular in the UK and I would say is even casually enjoyed nearly as much as football which speaks volumes and is embarassing how little it is covered at a professional level compared to our European neighbours. (Edit: you guys can stop telling me how popular football is 😭 I know it’s the most popular sport on earth I’m just saying basketball is very popular too, I know people who play ball will agree with me)
Thank you! That was the reason I made the video, I want to raise the awareness on this problem we are witnessing.
Sochan is Polish btw. He used to live in Uk tho...
@Vivacomunismo if you go to the park I’d say there’s an equal amount / chance you see people playing pick-up or knocking a football about.
Sochan is polish
@@Gor4ngi No it's really not even close.
It sucks. Sochan's situation was alot like Chrisian Pulisic in football. He was able to bank on his ancestry to get support from Poland to support his development much like Pulisic used his Croatioan background to get to Europe. The difference is, unlike UK basketball, the US actually has a development path for soccer moving in the right direction. I feel part of the issue is that the UK having founded so many sports themselves prioritizes those sports as opposed to sports invented elsewhere.
That’s true there is friction because of the legacy sports 😤
Sochan is half American half polish and wounded up in the UK like many did before Brexit so he has a foot in three worlds
Problem isn't necessarily that players go to America for college or get drafted
But rather unlike Europe we don't have a sustained eco system to keep churning players and even if players don't go to the NBA they can make a living playing high standards basketball
Yeah true. I grew up in Canada and the United States (my moms from the us and dads from Scotland). We don’t really see sports as inherently more important than one another; people more just have their regional preferences and personal preferences.
Me for example, I’m very Canadian… but I absolutely love football/soccer (due to my dads passion for Glasgow Celtic). It’s the only sport I’ll ever truly love and watching games is one of my favourite things ever.
BUT I also grew up thinking baseball, football, hockey and basketball were incredible. Even things like lacrosse, racquet ball… I played all these sports growing up.
@@vinniechan You can make millions playing in Spain. don't need the NBA
@@vinniechan Sochan moved to UK aged 2 as his dad was playing there and he ended up growing up there. He says he ID's as British and Polish
Some really good points here mate, nice one.
The sports investment in UK is all twisted. They favour image and medals in things like sailing over providing kids with a productive, safe, and exciting sport to play. We need to catch up with the rest of Europe.
One thing to look into is the London Lions, they have received investment and are actually competing in the Europ Cup, which could do a lot to help grow the game! This is a positive.
Thank you! The lions hopefully can bring the sport alive especially as they are based in such a densely diverse populated area
Lions are owned by the same company that bought the league, highest payroll and talent pool of any current team. Alot of teams are putting in investment with new stadiums etc, but this all takes alot of time to build arenas in the UK; Lions play in the stadium built for Olympics, so purpose built for 6000 fans. Most other stadiums hold 1500-2500 in comparison. Also theres 3 other teams playing in various European competitions; Caledonia Gladiators in European Cup, Newcastle Eagles and Bristol flyers are in the ENBL (Northern Europe League).
I watched an interesting SB nation video recently about the EPL too and it was fascinating how financially tangled up they are, I’m not from the UK but interesting to see commonalities and differences
@@rotiluvshoopswait victor bristsh
Tbf they all invest in football
I'm from the Canary Islands, Spain and lived over there at the UK for a while. I'm a basketball head and coming from a country where it really is the second most popular sport, the UK is not like that. I had the feeling sports like boxing - which is my biggest love - cricket, tennis and even motor sports were all vastly more popular than basketball. Never met nobody that followed the NBA, never met nobody who would go to watch live basketball games, and it was really difficult to find courts and people to play with, most of them were foreign people too.
Hmm that’s an experience I can’t say I have shared but it doesn’t surprise me
NBA isn't very followed in my country either, we follow Euroleague, our domestic clubs, our domestic league
That's because you were not in urbanised areas. In Inner city areas of London, Birmingham and Manchester (largest population zones) Basketball is very popular among the youth. and like he said 80% of youths who play basketball are ethnic minorities. I Doubt you mingled with them during your time in the UK.
@@student99bgwhat country is that?
@@MrDavidOthis is pure speculation on my part but is there a correlation between basketball and football? This may be getting a little deep but does English football favor white kids which often leaves some minorities to play basketball instead? Or do they simply play both?
Absolutely loved the video mate! As a Brit living in Toronto, it is really incredible how similar the number of players are. Toronto has an NBA team, and yet when I go to play pickup in the UK or Toronto, they have very similar participation. It just goes to show how poorly British Basketball is managed.
I also heard Jeremy Sochan talk about British Basketball and how the GB team are really poor at contacting and liaising with their players. I would be really interested in a video about the institutional problems within the organising body as well.
You also have to take into account that Toronto is right next to the United States so the inconvenience of having to go overseas does not apply. Even if there was enough interest for basketball in the UK there couldn't be an NBA team there because it is too far away. I only see an NBA team being put there if high speed transit between the two countries is developed.
@@ONLY-tz9eohe’s not saying there should be a UK NBA team. What he’s saying is that you would expect basketball to be more popular in Canada because they have a major NBA team in their area, however he noticed that basketball is actually equally as popular in both countries
What are you talking about??? I'm from Toronto, we have a deep basketball culture here. We produce the second most NBA players after the States-you can find a gym or outdoor door court filled with people all throughout the city. Basketball is greatly more popular in this city/country in comparison to England. Trust me England lags way behind Canada in terms of development, culture, and a basketball tradition!
@@jimjordan4402 oh, i am saying that in terms of basic level of interest at grassroots, both are very high. it is just that the pathways are awful in the UK so we develo0nfar fewer players.
Well according to the Canadian Press, the NBA is the second most popular league just after the NHL among young people. And I
The problem we had with the advent of basketball popularity was the unwillingness of the old stock in embracing what was new as many thought it was a threat to hockeys superiority.
My advice is become so good that they can't ignore you. Hopefully then will the British government be forced to reconcile with the popularity of basketball and allocate more funding. Goodluck, and thanks for O.G.
Great video! I’m 40 and a massive Orlando Magic fan. I’ve payed since I was 11 and frequented Scottish stocks games since 2000 and now go see the Gladiators in Glasgow. This is a great explanation of the current predicament . Great work. 🙌
Thank you 🙏🏾
Great time to be a Magic fan. Play the song over and over and over again
You have some good point my dad played in the BBL from 2006-2007 and only earned 60k being a defensive player of the year prospect and one of the shiftiest guards he played for the bristol flyers
That is quite impressive and a nice way to earn a living
Thanks so much for making this video!! It sums up a lot of my intrigue of Brits in the NBA, Basketball iin the UK, and the fact its waaay more popular here than people think.
Thank you 🙏🏾 needed a good sum up to be honest
Another banger! Glad to hear you explore the UK Basketball scene as well, and not just what's happening in the NBA!
🙏🏾 UK needs its props
This is so true, best video I’ve seen. Basketball opened so many doors for me, even overseas, but had to stop playing because of lack of funding and reaching adult life where you have to find something else to get by. Even at junior level my team was a force to be reckoned with, our coaches had to use their own money and personal vehicles to get us to away games, unpaid for the love.
We need to force a change because Britain could be the biggest export of Basketball stars if the government wises up.
Great stuff, personally for basketball to grow in the UK outside of having a generational talent come from here we just have to keep spreading awareness the BBL exists most of my friends I grew up playing with have no clue it existed
Needs to be a house hold league people chat about
Great video my guy. I’m an American(California) and been living in the UK for 10 years now. Basketball was my first love and I grew up playing it in the drive way with my dad and friends. Then later in my adult life in the 24 hour fitness. You can just rock up and play pickup in pretty much any gym in the US. I wish that we had something like that in the UK.
I still play in the UK but you have to put more effort in finding the other players, booking the venue, organising time, collecting payments, etc. It’s a huge hassle but it is worth it. My mental health and physical health all have improved since I’ve been playing 1-3 times a week. Also the comraderie you feel when playing is great. I’ve started a WhatsApp group and it took a while to get consistent number of players to play pickup every week but we manage.
You are so correct in your research as a lot of players I play with are minority’s. I’m Filipino-American and as you may know basketball runs deep in then Filipino community. I also noticed there is a bit of an age gap. Like a lot of older players I’m 37 so a lot of the players I found are around my same age. They’re British (white) and grew watching And1 mixtapes and 90’s/00’s era NBA. And then there are more younger players like early 20’s or younger. But there just seems to be like a 7-8 year gap where I don’t know a ton of british (white) players from like age 25-32. most of the guys i play with are outside that range. Most of the white british players i play with are either my age or much younger.
For me it’s my sanctuary and when I started playing regularly again it felt like almost a religious experience. Like it came back to me in a tough time during my life and I’m happy to have re-found it.
great vid once again lets grow basketball in the UK!
Thank you! what do you think could be implemented for change?
"They’re British (white) and grew watching And1 mixtapes and 90’s/00’s era NBA." That definitely struck a chord. I'm also white British and was mad about the NBA in my teens during the 90s. It's odd though as despite the internet really taking the NBA to the masses in the 2000s, it may have actually been more accessible to watch it in the 90s, as there were dedicated ITV or Channel 4 series (I forget what they were called) and matches were sometimes shown in the early hours of the morning. Basketball was popular enough there was enough demand for mail-order services. Anyone remember Pontel?
@@rotiluvshoops - Its hard to say. I think its mostly culture. Its just not ingrained to Birtish culture the way it is in other countries. Its ingrained in American culture and many people just play it recreationally. Basketball is widely played and embraced in all other parts of Europe. Many eastern european countries it is more popular that football. In Spain, basketball is the 2nd most popular sport next to football. I think we just need to get more people playing it recreationally. I mean Netball is super popular here in the UK amongst females and it seems to only grow. I'm not sure if kids are exposed to it more. My son (7) says no one plays basketball during break. They only play football. He doesn't like football and prefers basketball. I mean I don't really know why it isn't as popular sport to play in the UK. Its an indoor sport and it rains all the time in the UK. You'd think an indoor sport would be more popular. But I mean my local basketball court has just been refitted with new backbourds and rims with actual nets! So I would say its trending up but very slowly.
this feels like its pretty much spot on i agree with what youve said. the uk definitely needs better funding. just getting nets up is a huge chore so we end up doing it ourselves theres a serious lack of people in charge understanding the demand for the sport
thank you and you aren't wrong
Yep. I'm always replacing the nets at my local court. I don't mind, though. I quite like maintaining it
Great vid. Basketball was a massive part of my youth and early adulthood in the UK. Growing up I don’t remember ever seeing British basketball on TV and would instead stay up until the early hours to catch live NBA or highlights here on TH-cam. No doubt the UK needs to improve the cash flow into development for young and upcoming players. I played against a number of the established academy teams and some of the talent was incredible. Would be great to see the talent flow into elite level here and flourish - let’s hope the future is bright!
Great vid btw. First time viewer - have subscribed!
Just got into basketball again in mid 20’s after joining a club in the summer and watching nba again. Was stunned to see all the BBL games free on TH-cam. Really hit home dire the situation was.
I’m still glad though that at the base level were still very good for clubs and space to play the game. Even in a rural welsh town we have a bunch of us that play every week.
Wow I didn’t know wales had a basketball population like that
Really interesting video. I recently started watching the BBL from here in the U.S. since all the games a streamed live for free on TH-cam. Hopefully the league can continue to grow, clearly the fan and talent base already exists.
Amen to that
I don’t really buy the argument that going to play in college hurts British basketball. The benefit of them playing against stronger competition surely outweighs any hypothetical increased interest in the BBL. Especially when two of the examples used where 1-and-dones.
Good point
Love this video, the fact you covered it from the grassroots point shows how deep it goes, also I remember talking to people from basketball clubs while at University and they said more or less what you said
Thank you!
Great video mate, nice work. We defintiely have a tendency to favour so called heritage sports in this country (football, rugby, cricket, tennis). I suppose when we have such a long and storied history in such sports, it inevitably leads to hesitation in embracing sports outiside this sphere. I've noticed this with MMA as well as Basketball. Even a Brit wiunning a UFC title (the pinnacle of the sport) recieves a fraction of the media coverage that a less meaningful boxing matchwould.
It’s so true, MMA has a problem for not getting enough love. Especially since we have had great fighters in the past
I'm Canadian, it seems like UK basketball is at the same place Canada basketball was about 20 years ago.
I had this thought and maybe should have made a comparison video. Vince deffo helped raise the level of basketball in Canada and if the UK will get that.
Having Canadian NBA teams such as the Raptors was key in accelerating that growth though. The UK won’t have anywhere near as strong a catalyst as that to accelerate the growth
@@xJeffHD Probably not but there are definitely potential things that could "catalyse" the growth to a lesser degree
Love this video Roti! As someone who is totally invested in uk basketball (coaching national league for 6 years), it hits some key points very well. One thing I wish you had mentioned is the fact that coaches in this country are almost all volunteers. This really limits the ability for talented coaches to either stay in this country or promote the game full-time in their communities. Our kids are incredibly talented in this country, but there are not enough coaches and teams to keep them all busy!
There are just a couple of points you might want to rephrase in future - when you generalise and say “elites”, it weakens your point. It is politicians who decide how much money basketball receives. You could also mention the fact that organised competitive basketball has to be played indoors in this country, and we don’t have enough access to affordable sportshalls. Unless a club is well established in a community, building a relationship with a school or a gym will be prohibitively expensive for a new club. We lose countless court hours to sports like badminton, just because the kids we want to teach can’t pay the same money to rent the gym. Cricket/rugby/football all have the advantage that they train outside - which brings rental costs down hugely. The reason most basketball clubs can’t pay their coach is because 80% of their costs are renting a court for 4 hours per week.
Anyway -sorry for the rant. Basketball needs a lot of help and this kind of video is so important. We need a strong campaign with a political influence, and we need to prove that basketball is profitable in the UK. Once we do that, basketball will get the support it deserves. But it won’t be easy.
I
i really value your insight; articulating these issue, like he says, at grassroots and elite levels.
I’ll also be trying to bring more awareness of BB’s cultural impact for my uni project.
Was your coach statistic a guesstimate, or fid you find it somewhere?
Isn’t it the Uk sports federation that funds basketball not politicians?
Thank you for this video mate. Genuinely enlightening to a subject I believed I was already immersed within. I was at that Manchester Giants and Sheffield Sharks game way back when. I played Basketball every day as a child, teenager and young adult. Manchester funnily enough has some seriously dedicated communities around public courts and I was more than happy to involve myself with as many as were reachable via bus. My highschool and college basketball days are some of my fondest memories, so seeing my beloved BBL fade into obscurity really got to me.
I'd love to see a resurgence for now my son's era as he grows up. We're from a family of Scandinavian giants and my boy is a clear head and half taller than any of his classmates so hopefully he can get interested, foster any talent he may or may not have and give him something to look to. I dunno, call that a parent's well wishing but a man can dream can't he?
Anyway, I digress, thanks again for this video pal. Keep this up please. Best of luck.
Speaking of talent retention, it’s kind of funny because in my country, the Philippines. Many young players’ goal is to go overseas in the US or elsewhere to develop their talent. We do have a popular basketball league but it still hasn’t produced homegrown Filipino NBA players. We always produce almost-NBA basketball players but they’re not quite enough for the NBA.
On the other hand, Filipinos and Filipino-Americans that trained in the US for their whole lives are far more successful in making it to the league, see for example Jordan Clarkson and Raymond Townsend (ex-NBA player last played in 1982)
It’s true, I think it’s the place where basketball is most popular after America 👀
Spoelstra is also Filipino. He's also the longest tenured NBA coach after Pop.
@@rotiluvshoops… countries that basketball is their most popular sport
China
Philippines
Bahamas
Estonia
South Sudan
Lithuania
Puerto Rico
And atleast 60% of world nations… basketball is their 2nd sport…
Im a British basketballer, and it really hurts knowing i will probably never ever reach an NBA level and go pro in my favourite sport
Guns are banned in the uk - and shooting is given more funding. That put the whole thing into perspective. Dude as the first British indian to get a scholarship in America ten years ago, I really appreciate you putting this together. It's so well done and comprehensive in the short time. The real issue was that ntl deal, which too BBL away from Sky which has never made it's way back. Basketball from a participation perspective is incomparable with other sports (excluding football). I could talk all day about it but I'll leave it here. Amazing work and thank you!
Guns aren't banned in the UK bro. This is just a point repeated by people online.There are over 3 million legally owned guns in the hands of civilians in the UK.
@@MrBADMAN2222 still a banging analogy
@@aaronbranchofficial well it isn’t because it isn’t even remotely true. They aren’t banned like at all.
@@MrBADMAN2222 you missed my pun there “banging” 🥲
Hahaha
As an Englishman and a HUGE basketball fan this is so upsetting. We need so real support.
I think the reason it doesn’t get the support it needs is because it’s abbreviation is ‘The BBL’ and then at just gets lost in translation
I see this 🤣
Really interesting. When I think about it, basketball was incredibly popular at school, but it never translated beyond that, this video gives clear indicators why. Fingers crossed that the weight of interest pushes basketball here.
I pray so 🙏🏾
Shocking to see basketball so badly funded in the UK. I love the game and have done since I was a kid. Can't deny that it is way more catered for, even at playground level in Europe. I put a net up on the hoop in the the local playground and tried to encourage the kids to come down and play against an old guy like me! A small help I suppose, but that swish sound is important. ;o)
oh the swish goes a long way
I feel the issue in Scotland and in general the UK at large is that football and tennis and practically every other sport gets funding before basketball i think because alot of authority groups think that basketball is an urban sport, but since the Gladiators won the bbl trophy and brought the cup back up over the border that there will be a better focus on basketball development. Running a small basketball community in Glasgow its difficult to get anywhere with the council and government but Ive had lots of help from basketball Scotland and Glasgow Life. I just wish there were better courts specifically for outdoors basketball as that would encourage more people into the sport. Just fed up with dodgy court surfaces not fit to bounce a basketball and crazy double rims with no net hooks, I think getting more public support and working on visibility may help. As for the actual teams in the league I think getting into the Euro leagues will help bring a bit of coverage. The thing that bothers me most is that basketball was huge in the 80s in the UK , teams from Scotland were playing european teams up the road from my house in Falkirk. Anyway Good video mate
Thank you 🙏🏾 also the cost of indoor courts 🤮 good to see Scotland thriving and good on you for doing something in Glassgow, I wanna do the same in London some day
The three niche sports you mentioned have all brought us a lot of olympic success as of late hence the big funding. As for the NBA London games selling out, Cricket and Rugby sell out one off international games in stadiums up to 4 times the size of the O2 but struggle to sell out domestic games. More people probably play basketball than rugby and cricket but it probably won’t get the viewership/attendances both those sports get which is what makes the money at the end of the day. However with all that said we should be sending a team to the FIBA World Cup and Olympics filled with our strongest players and that requires more funding than it currently gets
Honestly we should be sending a team at least or having a team that could compete
good points
Hopefully, UK Basketball will grow rapidly in the future. I've watched some UK Players in NBA like Joel Freeland, Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, OG Anunoby, Pops Mensah-Bonsu, John Amaechi and Michael Olowokandi.
I hope so
great video that was really insightful. I played basketball growing up and even played national league, I always found it so frustrating that despite our team being undefeated for 2 years we still were not given the gym for after school training and we would get kicked off for badminton. Turns out because they would rent out the courts for badmintonn or just let the badminton players use it so they didn't have to care as much despite the school saying that it cared about sports. football rugby cricket tennis athletics badminton and others were given after school training despite being way less successful than us. If our team had the chance to properly train and develop I know we could have gotten a lot better but unsurprisingly it was a majority white school and the team was majority BAME. So I definitely see how discrimination plays a factor I didnt realise it at the time i was a white kid who liked basketball so i just found it fun to play with people, now I can see how racism and classisim almost certainly played a role. I actually found playing basketball helped me learn about race and class issues and become a more educated person and i saw it as a very positive experience for me teaching me hardwork teamwork and social issues. But of course a tory government wont care about any of that
Awesome video. I really didn't know Britain had a history with the game - hopefully it will have a resurgence soon!
Great video. No doubt it's a class thing...
Would love to see you do a video on how Spain, Germany or Serbia have succeeded in growing the game at home.
We covered some of this in our Interview with Simon Coutaud go check it out. TL:DR The sport is supported and encouraged by the state, unlike the UK currently
This is a great idea thank you
Great vid, UK have the talent. Been playing basketball here and the kids that play here are really good. It is just really lack of support. Back in the Philippines we are also not winning medals but support is 100% as we love the sport.
thank you buddy !
this is fantastic. insightful, zoomed in, zoomed out. it was cool to get this perspective on hoopers in the UK. I've wondered about this for a while. I was so glad to see class issues being talked about in relation to the game as well.
Honestly I wish I wrote my dissertation on this 😤
Thank you 🙏🏾
The problems with basketball funding in the UK is strikingly similar to the problems that football faced in the US. For a long time it was simply viewed as ‘not popular enough’ or ‘too foreign’ for it to receive significant investment. However that was solved by a few factors like 1.America qualifying for multiple World Cups(even hosting in ‘94) 2. The increase in viewership of the premier league and arguably the most important factor was stars like Beckham and many others going over to America for basically a huge retirement package. Perhaps if the UK could attract NBA stars in the twilight of their careers to play their last years here it would boost investment, however that itself would require a huge amount of money for it to even be a possibility.
Really interesting stuff, and well presented. Crazy to see sports that are already dripping in money like Equestrian and Sailing getting big back-up yet b-ball gets so little.
Back in 1995 a long-forgotten NBA player called Renaldo Lawrence came to my school in Canterbury and spent a day with us playing and coaching, I ended up going to his summer camp that was mostly ran by BBL players. Really felt like the game was about to pop off in the UK. Yeah it's bigger these days but, as you said, it could be huge. I'd love that. Be great if London Lions games were not on week nights too 😁
Team GB Equestrian and Sailing teams win tons of Olympic medals
what ever happened to him?
Great video. I grew up watching Bracknell Pirates/Bracknell Tigers/Thames Valley Tigers back in the 1980s watching Pete Scantlebury and Roger Huggins. When they moved to Guildford the town lost a local team to support and none of the junior teams could make the jump. We used to cycle to training.
They won the league one year. At the time, it seemed the sports centre was buzzing, but in reality it was only a few hundred people there sitting on bleachers.
We were all inspired by the Celtics and Lakers, and Channel 4 used to show the games at the time. We recorded the games on VHS and watched them back together.
There were never many local courts to play on, but we found them and pick up games were not easy to find, but every now and then we got a 5 on 5.
I moved to Madrid in the early 2000s and lived there for 7 years. I watched the local teams and it was a different world. Packed out stadiums watching high quality basketball and the bars were packed when Spain won the World Championship. Yeah, okay, the bars were always packed anyway...
It was a completely different scenario, but it highlighted the difference for me. In Spain the game was a proper, professional game. In the UK it seemed the game never really moved on from when I was watching it.
Maybe in Spain there was less competition for sports without cricket and 2 codes of rugby, but I found no difference in the passion for the game in either country.
This happened to Canada in the late 80s and early 90s. Then we got the raps and grizz 🤲
Just can’t see us get an NBA soon 😕 hope I‘m wrong
@@rotiluvshoops obviously Euroleague better option for British basketball and i think London Lions will be promoted into Euroleague sooner than later
Great watch, as someone who plays a lot of sports including basketball, the stat of its popularity being the 2nd highest really shocked me, and I feel as though the grass roots side is where it all starts.
bro i understand your pain, but in england, that's not going to happen. whenever i say to an englader that my number 1 sport is basketball, they raise an eyebrow. maybe if arsenal fc founds a basketball section (like real, barcelona, bayern) you can dream about it
Hahaha I would like to see this
Absolutely loved playing basketball at school in the nineties. Now my old school doesn't even have a team and I understand most of the others in the area don't either. Cricket, football and rugby were massive of course but so was basketball!
Really interesting and well-assembled piece, nice one!
As an ex-amateur b-ball fanatic from before the years of the Adidas hoops etc, when you really had to travel or struggle to get a place to play, it always felt like there were two main obstacles to the sport getting more (or any) support. The first was a kind of instinctive rejection of it by most people as being "too American", and the second was that the "wrong" people (i.e us Black people) made up such a huge part of the playing/fanbase. It's such a shame - as you say, we have talent here but people have to go elsewhere to develop it and be recognised.
I think our football clubs need basketball departments, then it will really give it the cash boost it needs. Notice all these football clubs in Europe have basketball teams as well as football teams, so many clubs do ,,why not in UK? Seems we are missing a trick there.
Which team do you think should expand ??
@@bretton_woods great idea
Which football team is local to the London Lions it would be great to see them link up and do something to bless that community and if successful could be a catalyst for the rest of the country.
Clicked on this randomly but some great points well made. As a Brit in my early 30s Basketball was always one of the big sports growing up. I guess we've just accepted that if you like Basketball you have to watch the NBA. I have several mates who set alarms at stupid times just to catch the NBA games lives.
Would love to see a resurgence of UK Basketball!
I was that friend hahaha
I honestly didn't know there was such thing as UK basketball. I couldn't think of a full blooded British player. Luol Deng (migrated from Sudan) and John Amaechi (first British [part Nigerian] to play in the NBA and also first known gay player) are the 2 I could think of
Granted France has no full blooded French players in the NBA as of now.
You have a great point here
Great video. What particularly annoyed me was after the 2012 Olympics, where we gave a very good account of ourselves, losing a very close game to Spain, who were the second best team in the world, only to then have the funding cut immediately after. The Olympics was a real sign of the potential we could have for the sport and it was effectively sniffed at and snuffed out.
Wow... I didn't know UK had powerhouse league in the 90s.....
I'm from Serbia where basketball is arguably number 1 sport, and we never asociate basketball with UK.
Because it’s near enough dead at pro level
Good vid bro, basketball has definably been on the rise for the last 10 years but the lack of opportunities/funding have made me have a bittersweet relationship with the sport.
Thank you 🙏🏾
I've spent many years among British people. A few would follow basketball. All I can hear is football, football, football... And some other sports sometimes e.g. rugby, cricket, tennis, snooker, darts... The UK must be number one place in Europe where there is so much wasted potential and talent when it comes to basketball.
Honestly it’s sad
Big disadvantage is the weather! Here in Greece we have thousands of open courts and all the kids/adults are playing for free anytime they want! Basketball is everywhere. Also we have thousands of basketball academies from very early age! Kids learn the basics and they become descent players when they grow up. Then it s up to the them what work/practice they put on to become better players and make the step up! We have every year boys and girls sign in NCAA colleges in all divisions from 1 to 3.Been in UK for 6 years involved professionally with basket at top level, you need to adopt Serbia 's program for kids, you cannot expect to learn basketball with 2-3 practices a week for 1-1.5 hour. You must choose what type of basketball you want to play, US or Euroleague! Attempt camp/clinics in Spain/Serbia/Lithuania/Greece countries that live and breathe with basketball!Congrats for your video. Ps Amici was a top British NBA player as well.
Surely deng was better though?
Great video, had no idea about Nick Nurse coaching over here😂 that’s crazy! It’s mad that the sport isn’t bigger here, there’s some serious money to be made if they ever get it right, so I have no idea why someone doesn’t give it a shot!
Yeahhh crazy
Great mini documentary on this. I have always wondered why my favourite sport to watch is not popular here in the UK. Would love to see the British scene thrive.
Thank you 🙏🏾 I completely agree
The MLS has overpaid for ageing superstar soccer players to try and grow the sport and their league, I imagine the UK would need a similarly huge investment to grow the league. Maybe align the basketball teams with football clubs like in Spain.
Yeahh that’s a great idea 💡
One of the main funding models is merchandising. London lions are brilliant at this but my local side the Phoenix it’s a struggle to get anything.
My lad is proud to support basketball but he can’t show this because there is nothing to buy.
I feel like the support is there, but we just can’t take advantage.
This issue with Basketball in the UK is similar to the issue football/soccer has in Australia. Its just not as accessible as it should be, and is largely a user-pay system only available to those that can afford it. Yet it is the most played sport in the country, even more than rugby, AFL, or cricket.
Real sad 😔
I feel like that stat about basketball being the 2nd most popular is a complete lie, ive never met anyone who plays or even watches it.
I grew up up playing basketball in the UK. Regarding funding. I agree, it's way too low, I do think though those figures are more about the ability to win medals at Olympic games rather than about the popularity of those sports per say. However, one thing that should never have happened was for the London Olympic Basketball Arena to be designed so it could just be taken down. It says a lot about what UK authorities think about the importance of the sport here to literally design that arena so it could easily be taken down. And then they tell people it was designed that way to maintain the 'Olympic legacy', I kid you not!
Germany did it the right way. They focused on creating a strong league. After two decades they have a very respectable league and a top tier national team. Do not underestimate the Euroleague. That is the way.
They had Dirk, he was a catalyst for their growth and took them to international final 4s
Well broken down. You're knowledge and love for the sport shine through. Newly subscribed. I'm about to binge on a bunch of you're video's and catch up. Great stuff.
Great video mate!
Shame that the funding isn’t there as the UK has potential to be one of the best countries in the world at basketball. The difference is funding between sports is no surprise when you consider how elitist this country is, most of the people who are in charge of where the money goes are most likely posh boys who played rugby at Eaton or sailed on daddy’s boats or rode mummy’s horse at the weekend
Haha thank you very much 🤣🙏🏾
The Olympic level funding is linked to.... expected Olympic success. Literally a formula, not subjective. "People in charge of where the money goes" is the national lottery.
Great vid man - more people need to talk about this. I’m 43 now and played at pretty much every level. The issue is the politics at the top and people in power not really understanding the game and/or business
Also doesn’t help uk teams simply don’t offer open tryouts or anything to encourage uk talent.
They do. Two lads on the Phoenix squad this year came through tryouts junior teams
🤔
@@ThrupennyGreen How old? And do you have any info on trials? I feel like trying out in the offseason
Old school hooper here (since the days of VHS!). Great video. Keep them coming!
What they need is to change the league name from BBL…
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yes, Basketball Bundesliga is the real Powerhouse of European BB
I made a few mistakes researching it 👀
Great video man! Very well thought out. While I don't play basketball anymore I would love to see it grow in popularity in the uk! Televised games would help a lot
Great video, i was surprised how many people were playing when moving from Australia to London. The level of some of these kids is great, and for a lot of them its their second sport. I think culture is a big thing which fits into your class point. I think BBL needs to do what the NBL is doing and get international young talent to come play. Although i love the NBA, watching Lamelo play for the Hawks was the first NBL game i ever watched. Keep up the good content !
You are not wrong, this should be a place and a hub for players to come over and get experience. That could really help develop the league also
As a British basketball fan it is a shame there's no more movement on it here, NBA is great but it'd be nice to have something take off a little more homegrown
Yeahh I get that hoopfix is good for that
Well done. Great video. Hopefully it has an impact!
Thank you 🙏🏾
Amazing amazing video essay. Subscribed and looking to hear more.
Thank you
A couple of things are similar to the experience here in Australia. In the 90s the NBL was very popular but once cable (Foxtel) was introduced and spread widely enough and the NBA was readily available the NBL went into a decline for the next 15 years or so, teams folded and sponsorship declined, despite basketball being popular at the grass roots level. This is similar to football in this country where more people watch EPL than the domestic A League. The audience want to watch the best players in the world, wherever they are. We also lose a great deal of talent to the NBA and many players to college in the USA. However the NBL has been able to bounce back as a viable league by doing a few things. There are much less teams, they allow teams 3 imports and they now also have a rising stars program that attracts potential NBA draft prospects to play one year here (Lamello Ball player here before NBA). So with less teams and more talent the quality is better. They also target families as a big part of their support base are kids aged 6-13 (by 13 they are focussed on NBA) and they schedule game times and entertainment suitable to the audience. As the quality of the NBL has gone up, crowd and tv audience have gone up and so have the revenues and again they have slowly started to add teams to the league.
Good points, but I will add that guns aren't banned in the UK and in fact shooting is up there for the fastest growing sports in the UK. In fact it's very popular in rural regions to the point that it is the dominant sport.
Really interesting video - some things I thought about during, I'd love to hear others thoughts on:
1. The NBA is THE basketball league comparing BBL to it is unfair, it's like the MLS chasing the Premier League. Almost all domestic European struggle in themselves thats why Euroleague is so vital. The BBL needs more representation on this stage.
2. I'm not sure talent leaving to the NBA is as big an issue as implied - it shines a spotlight on the UK scene, the best players going to the best league seems natural to me. BUT, we need to improve our development pathways for those that won't make it to the NBA, its currently seen as its worth going to DIV 3 NCAA and hoping to breakthrough is better than staying in the UK. That's where the funding is needed. We need to take University sport more seriously, such as rugby, sailing and cricket do.
3. On the topic of there being the interest in the UK for viewing basketball, im not sure using the NBA London games is a good example as this is a spectacle one-off not a weekly occurrence. If you look at the London Lions - they play a few miles away from the O2, with cheaper tickets and a smaller venue (Copperbox) and they still cannot sell out each week. How to address this I'm unsure.
MLS is a decent league, BBL not even close to be a decent league in europe ,no way euroleague would invite them and i dont see any british team winning champions league in the near future
hmmm
@@thegoodgunneragreed with point on euroleague - unless London Lions win the eurocup then it’s not going to happen. We also need a 2nd team to play on the eurocup stage, we can’t have just 1 team to represent the country on that level of competition
I’m afraid it’s a case of what have you done for me lately but there is an opportunity here. Just the sort of challenge I’ve been looking for.
Basketball just isn't popular enough and does not win enough medals.
But in order to win medals and become popular basketball needs funding. Ugh.
Literally
Brilliant video mate. You've earned yourself a subscriber. Great topic to cover and I feel you delivered each point very well and the video was put together well too. Hopefully a larger British basketball social media community will contribute to the growth of British basketball
Well things can change quickly, 10 years ago it was the same here in germany, now they won the Worldcup.
But they also had dirk, where is our equivalent 😞 but maybe we get one soon
The German BBL of 10 years ago was light years ahead of the 2023 British League, in every sense.
Guys like Dirk don't appear out of thin air. You need to have some sort of basketball culture for such a talent to emerge in the first place.
Superb video . Alot of work and research not to mention editing. Good job
Thanks a ton
2:46
You are clearly new here.
That “Brixton Basketball team” is called the Brixton Topcats and nurtured some of the best basketball talent to come from this country, under the LATE GREAT JIMMY ROGERS!
Hahaha - got me 🤪
as an american i always wondered how nba exhibitions always sell out arenas in the uk even though the pro scene seems completely dead compared to the uk's european neighbors. great vid
Thank you 🙏🏾
The NBA games in the UK sold out partly because London is easily accessible from other European countries so those events were magnets not just for all the UK fans but for European fans in general. It's the same reason why the NFL games in London do so well.
You must remember London is not typical of the UK
it's a metropolitan which is affected by trends with rest of the world
The accessibility problem once someone gets above semi pro level was always strange to see. Everyone who grew up on ends has played basketball, so it's not a playerbase issue. Perhaps a series of overperforjances in Europe could help with the appeal, but that isn't sustainable, especially as investment is a bit tighter these days
You’re right
Big facts! As a father of 2 boys, I would love to get them into Basketball in the UK. I grew up playing the game & follow it still
Start by putting London Lions in the Euroleague
They would need to be a lot stronger for it to make some sense.
They are in the Eurocup so that’s a good step
Lions have to worst attendances of all the BBL teams. They don’t have a supporter base. Where as the other teams have strong history with their communities. They just get their money from 777 who also own the leavue
I think it has the same issue that football (soccer) has in the states, everyone plays it at school then leaves it behind once they leave. The NBA is so dominant that if you are into basketball you will just watch that rather than your own league. Many football leagues across the world struggle because everyone will just watch the Prem, la liga and bundesliga on TV rather than going to watch their local side play.
It is insane we dont see basketball on TV when it is only behind football as a top played sport.
We could be a basketball powerhouse but for some reason its like we just choose not to be.
I fell in love with basketball in 2017 and Ive always been confused why we are so underrepresented, thank you for the explanation.
This NEEDS to change, I want to see more UK players in the NBA and the BBL on prime time TV
Hate to break it to ya but basket ball ain’t the second sport. It’s behind boxing and tennis etc
@Solastreets ok, but it deserves more coverage for its popularity even still
appreciate this video. very informative and deep. peace and right on. learning a lot about uk players, loul was the truth.
Great video bro! Would love to see more updates on the BBL question what's. your favourite NBA team and MJ or Lebron as your goat?
Thank you 🙏🏾 I don’t have an out right favourite - I like the ways teams play, the culture or sometimes just a few players on the team that make me like the team. If I was to pick a team I really enjoy watching right now, it would be the thunder.
My GOAT is Jordan, he came into the scene at a perfect moment in time.
It has been going yoyo for years. I was a junior player in the late 70's and early 80's with Crystal Palace Eagles and Falcons. The senior team had Mick Bett, Paul Stimpson, and Alton Byrd to name the ones which come to mind. Steve Bucknal was also in the Eagles whilst I was in the older Falcons, he went on to play for UCLA and the Lakers. I captained England at 15 and had a scholarship to NYIT, in Long Island. When I came back to London in 1985 I was offered just under £100 a week to play for the Crystal Palace Seniors with 2 years of college ball under my belt. I played 2 games and left to work on a building site where I could earn 3 times that per week and to follow my dream of becoming a musician. So basketball has always had great players in England but the funding was not always consistent to attract the better foriegn and american players to the leagues.Crystal Palace also hosted an annual badketball tournament in the New Year where teams like Macabi Tel Aviv and a North Carolina Team with Michael Jordan, Sam Perkins and James Worthy. Of course they won that year beating Macabi in the final who normally won the event.
There have been some other great players, Sam Stiller, John Ameobi ( forgive me for spelling) who played in the NBA) Peter Scantleberry and others who paved the way for this generation. There were great coaches too, Roy Packham, Jimmy who coached in Brixton for years, Mike Grainger (England and Greenshaw High School coach) Harry Baker England and Riddlesdown School. There have been so many who have paved the way.
I enjoyed your piece, keep up the great work. Steve
London is a really interesting idea for NBA expansion, but given the league's current dialogue about scheduling, player rest, and the exhaustion caused by travel, I can't see making it work with a single team so far from all the others. The trips across the states AND the pond would be untenable.
i think we just need to grow basketball in the uk with more care. id love for a london expansion to happen and i think that could work not just for uk but for more nations, but at that point it wouldn't really be an nba lol you may as well just make a new league. granted, toronto is a team so perhaps a name change is needed anyways. let say an nba expansion to london does happen, i think the players would need to be played significantly less games . imagine playing 82 games a years while hopping to and from a completely different continent af en toe. and we can probably count other european nations coming into the mix if england does so even more places. what i think is best is to just grow basketball in europe and national leagues will soon pop up and then do something a bit like the UEFA in football so those national teams still have a place, but the best clubs in the sport from certain nations will duke it out there. i theres already some reminiscence in european leagues so we just have to grow it and improve its strength
Yeah logistics sound impossible
Facts there needs to be more focus on building what we got atm
@@rotiluvshoopsi live in San Francisco, my gf lives near London.
That's a 10½ hour flight,
Not good
However!
San Francisco to New York is 5hr
New York to London is about 6hr
So with some creative scheduling it would be just about manageable.
I think the London team would have to have a really unique schedule for it to work
Like instead of 3-5 games at home, 3-5 on the road all season, it'd probably have to be like 3 weeks at home, 3 weeks in the states. probably every team making one trip to London a year and division rivals playing twice during their visit to get London to 41 home games like everyone else.
The super long road trips would probably make it difficult for London to have success but the other owners might be into having one team that has to travel constantly, might make scheduling easier for everyone else.
I have heard that they want to put a team in Mexico City and yeah Mexico is right next to Texas but it's a three hour flight from Dallas so if they want to tackle the logistics of Mexico, may as well try London. And also remember the population distribution in the US is crazy. There's so many people in "New England" like new York, Massachusetts, Connecticut the northeast corner. It makes slightly more sense to bend the outer limits of logistics to accommodate a team in England than a team in Mexico where the population density thins considerably.
Also the elevation in Mexico City is even higher than Denver. Denver is known to have a homecourt advantage because the air is a bit thinner and makes heavy exertion sports more challenging.
Gilbert arenas had a tent built in his bedroom to simulate being in Denver 😂😂
Anyway, first things first, if they are putting more money into shooting and equestrian than basketball, then we're probably wasting our time even thinking about London in the NBA but it's fun to think about!
Cheers
Ngl I can see a once a year exhibition game kinda thing like the NFL, but an expansion team here would sound like a nightmare for the players.
Not the biggest basketball fan but this is a question I have always thought about "why basketball isn't big here?" Since most of us played back in school. Great video
True
Sohan is Polish.
He was born to Polish mother and speaks polish, even likes polish food.
Big problem for the BBL is the fact that not a single serious player will want to play in bbl if they have any other option.
I like when you compare NBA to BBL and want folk to believe that this is almost the same. This impression is gone after 20 seconds of a bbl game.
"even likes Polish food"
lmao the fuck does that have to do with nationality? He has a dual nationality
correct
Polish and american
nothing to do with britain LOL
@@V-O-V
🤣🤣🤣
@rotimiluvshoops Jeremy Juliusz Sochan (/ˈsoʊhæn/ SOH-han; born May 20, 2003) is a Polish-American professional basketball player for the San Antonio Spurs of the National Basketball Association (NBA). Born in the United States to a Polish mother and American father, he was raised in England where he played youth basketball. He don't have british passport u idiot just Polish and American
@@Maciejowiczhe grew up in the UK for most of his life, talks about being british and polish in interviews, played for team GB when he was younger and wouldve when he was older if Poland didnt get there first. Theres no way he has no no attachment to the UK because of his blood
Yes a lot of people in the UK etc play and watch basketball, but because the NBA is premier and readily available to watch, any fans watch this instead of watching a UK team. I think that is what it basically comes down to.
hmm interesting
Great video bro.
Also I feel like London could be a real gamechanger for UK basketball. The vast diversity and strong ties to both european and american culture, can be a catalyst for the growth of basketball. London is a bridge that connects the US to Britain and Europe. It worked with the NFL, surely it can work with basketball.
I hope so🤞
@rotimiluvshoops I really have hope for UK basketball but Futbol is more popular I know Boxing but Basketball and Golf are my 2 favorite sports. In Britain I hope the popularity with FIBA get better
@@rotiluvshoopssomeone must've put your channel on my page. I didn't grow up in the UK but I was born in England. I'm trying to move back hopefully I could do something in Basketball I really liked the Detroit Pistons and the San Antonio Spurs NBA finals
Best documentary which I never asked for. Genius 🔥
Great breakdown! I always wondered why there were no elite UK players. We live in the age of international players. Jokic, Giannis, Doncic, Embiid are top 10 players in the world right, and even guys like Gasol and Dirk are some of the best to ever do it. If the UK needed a star, now would be the time.
Hildreth could be the star we been waiting for, elite player who could get drafted this year
Which team would you like to see him on?
@@phertzx5268 I haven't really paid attention to him but I'll keep an eye out.
@@rotiluvshoops I say the Spurs so he could be paired with Wemby. As long as he doesn't go to Detroit, Charlotte, Orlando or Portland. Careers die there.
Bro great takes glad u mentioned cam too hit the nail on the head from talent retention to funding 🤝
That spin is sick.😂
Hahaha
This video needs to boost, Basketball in England has so much lost potential its sad
Being from a country that is in a similar situation (Portugal), I was going to comment on some of your points, but this comment section has already done it for me... so I will just say this: if you start covering the british league on your channel, like who are the top teams, players and interesting stories, you'll earn a sub from me and a couple more likes. Giving some more informal coverage to the league might be great, especially since you have a good editing style 👌
Thank you - I plan on doing a mix between uk and us