What has Changed at Shigeru Kawai? | SK7 Comparison and Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ม.ค. 2020
- I used to be in love with the warm, fuzzy, rich sound of the Shigeru Kawai SK7 and SK-EX several years ago. However, I have not seriously played one since my search for a recording piano ended, and it seems that in that time, the sound of their flagship piano has transformed. What changed, and why? I discuss it in this video.
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Simply beautiful, James. I could listen all day. For what it's worth, speaking as a piano tuner-tech, Kawai is a joy to tune. I always found it fairly easy to "lock in" the tuning pin on the correct pitch, much like the American-made Baldwins. Yamaha and Petrof, also. Other brands are more laborious to tune, Steinway, for example. I'm not talking about the end result, or holding a tuning, just the labor of tuning all the strings. Some brands are a joy to tune, others more like work. It's a little like the "touch" on an action, which can vary greatly, even when finely regulated. Thanks for all your informative videos, and I especially appreciate your great attitude, enthusiasm, and talent.
Both lovely sounding pianos, and I wouldn't mind having either one of them. Great playing too, you have great touch. When I close my eyes and listen, you sound just like my father in his prime.
Good job James. I Appreciate your work and playing.
Almost wanted to hear the moonlight with and without the sustain pedal on the newer piano.
Very nice demo, by the way. Thanks for the reviews.
I'm so glad you did a video on Kawai. I know you've probably done one before, but I havent found any. Thank you for this.
Yes, I've done a few in the past, and I plan to do more in the future. They are good pianos.
The older sk7 is absolutely sublime! Personally still one of my favourite tones of all time 👍 thx james
Excellent! I really like Kawai pianos, even though I’ll never be able to afford one of these I can at least get close with a Kawai digital one day. thanks for the showcasing these James!
The late Earl Wild played on Shigeru Kawai in his later years. Thank you for your hard work in producing informative, thoughtful videos about everything piano! Love this!
Why did he leave Baldwin?
Thank you for this comparison. Love the older one ... like in my music room. Very much like the tenderness in your test piece. Have started back with lessons to recoup my grade 5 skills. I gave up playing to become a physician. Semi retired... long for the joy of the music again. Have a D.H. Baldwin Bought new in 1992. Very lightly played until grandson come to visit. He is loud. It is nothing like as fine as these. Loved the older Bosendorfer you played. The 195 from 1930 to 1950??? A reason to keep practicing... Does it harm a piano for 4 to 5 yo littles to play "thunder" on my piano??... cannot see much difference from the loud ,fast sonatas....
With millions???
Great review and nice playing!
James, I'm describing my feelings while I'm listening .This older model has a lovely even sound and it really flows.
I don't know if I would call the new one harsh, I just think it has a little more prescience, I think I mean brightness.
Somehow, even with that,I felt more emotion with the first one,
The second would probably work better as a soloist with an Orchestra , but both are excellent.
Cheers,
Rik Spector
Indeed a big difference between the two pianos but I like both of them. But I agree that the newer probably work better in a combo. An small comment on what you told about how you record the pianos. I never doubt about that. You honest in what you do, so also in how you do. Simple as that. Thank you for sharing.
I love Shigerus. I'll take either one of those beauties🔥
The new one sounds louder and more "brilliantly" - almost like a Yamaha CFX kind of sound. The older model does sound very lively and warm. I like both.
Wow, you've been playing a lot of Kawai lately. I was surprised to hear how much are / were a fan, thought you were more Steinway / Baldwin. I really love the Kawai but my heart gets tugged between Kawai and Yamaha mainly because these are the two that my wallet can sustain. Of course I have a whole other range should I win that lottery similar to the cars we drive and love now, and the cars we might get should we win big. I've learned today it's not only about bright or soft tone itself and a personal preference, application matters. Thank you.
Kawai digitals. I haven't heard James on an acoustic Kawai in awhile.
A really well set up Shigeru Kawai can be very nice and could be a very good choice for a studio, but not really a fan of new Steinways as they tend to vary greatly and are problematic. I am presently on the look to replace my Steinway.
Yamaha can only be taken seriously as a piano maker since they acquired Bosendorfer and the know how that comes with it.
I feel that both pianos are pretty much the same but the newer one is voiced differently and maybe the felt that they received is stiff than previous years. When I think of differences, I think of differences in the design of the piano like longer keys, new action, revised dampers, new string layout, etc. For Kawai, the SK-EX and regular EX are built as research prototypes where Kawai engineers try new ideas and make changes per each piano (EX = Experimental). It goes through all sorts of testing like the famed anechoic chamber where the engineers collect as much data as possible before putting it out for sale. If they find something that works well, it trickles down to other Kawai pianos like the other SK models and GX models (SK2-SK7 and GX1-GX7).
James, the differences between the two pianos really showed up on the "Moonlight". The older one sounded almost muted in comparison to the newer one. However, on softer pieces like the Debussy, I preferred the sound of the older unit.
Great review, thank you James. I prefer the older one. The new one sounds more like a Yamaha C7, almost too precise and clinical. If I likened them to headphones, the new one would be a Sennheiser HD800. The older model would be the Audeze LCD-X. I know pianos need 'playing in' so maybe the newer one would mellow slightly. I have a Feurich 179 dynamic II and it is now mellowing slightly after a year. Considering its size, the power is phenominal but it is let down by the top 2 octaves. Far too bright with way too many partial harmonics ringing everywhere. It might worth pointing out in your videos that a piano technician/voicer can tone a piano down or up to suit the room. Love your videos and your passion for pianos. All the best from England.
Beautiful playing James. I'm no virtuoso but number 2 seems nicer. Having said that I'd be the happiest guy in the world if I could own either.
The attack of the older one is very soft, I still have in mind the last time you played the well tempered klavier prelude n.1 on the Steinway which is far more sharper in the attack. The tone is very Kawai, I used to play one many years ago (a lot of years actually) and I always found it pleasant because of its clarity. Such a soft attack and a tone clarity gives a sense of evenness. The highest notes are incredibly gently in this one. I agree it's lacking projection but maybe it's better for your living room.
The attack of the newer one is sharper, not so much but sharper than the other. It's a matter of hammer voicing, a good technician could make one sound like the other with a little effort. If you noticed the sharper attack is enhancing some of the lower overtones and the whole piano is a little more chaotic and less clear, and I find it a little too percussive in the bass. I'd definitely choose the older one even if they are almost identical. I agree the newer sounds more like a Yamaha, even if it's not so sturdy and mechanical as a Yamaha, and I think it's not a big deal for Kawai.
P.S. I think you made a better deal with the Schiedmeyer for your studio
The new one sounds "brighter!" 😄
Great video James. Do you think the newer Shigeru might mellow as it ages and become more like the older one? Thanks for putting out so many quality videos. Ron
No, pianos become brighter as the hammers compress. It's a good idea to buy a piano (especially if new) that's more on the mellow side of the range you like.
But piano technicians can make significant changes by voicing - if you don't mind spending the money.
James I would love a comparison between the Kawai GX series vs the Yamaha CX pianos
The older Kawai is the one I have grown most fond of. As you say, the newer piano might be better voiced for large halls with orchestras. For my taste and the music I play I would gladly order the older one IMMEDIATELY if I could afford it. Thank you for the side by side. It is so important to be aware of how manufacturers are aiming their products. BTW: A little longer video with the greater volume range is preferable. HOWEVER, I really hate it when a quieter piece gets cut into by a LOUD commercial. I really wish you could have avoided doing that!
Whats the name of the song at 7:50 ??? It sounds so heartbreaking and beautiful ! LOL I should have kept watching. I would love to buy the sheet music of that piece from you.
Your are right, the Shigeru sounds "warmer", nice rendition of Clair de lune by the way. I own a Kawai, but that is not one of their pianos, its their last and most professional synthesizer from the mid 90s, the K5000s/k5000W, one of the most advanced synths of its type, one of the few synthesizers that does so called additive synthesis, its a beautiful sounding instrument when programmed right and it was undoutedly a keyboardplayers instrument as the keyboard versions had the best unweighted key-beds that i have ever played on, pure quality.
A lot of pleasant clarity in both pianos. But there's a hollow character to it, as if something is missing, which I believe is the 95 Steinway you own James ..
The Shigeru is like a beautiful woman, perfectly dressed, soft spoken and extremely polite. Your 95 Steinway is her sister, a very pretty lady ( but not the model type), full of personality, slightly unpredictable, witty and warm hearted.
3rd movement of the Moonlight sonata is also a good test of the pianist :P
The last piece you played sounded really nice, is there a full version?
Really amazing
Every piano is unique in its own way and suitable for different genres. I own a Yamaha C7 and a Kawai GS60, both 1995 models, both made in Japan and I would say the Yamaha resembles a Bechstein 282 and the Kawai is closer to a Steinway B211. I use the one or the other according to what I'm playing, for example nothing beats the C7 when it comes to pop, rock, minimal while I prefer the GS60 for Rachmaninoff. Shigeru and CFX are on another league of course and I would be interested in trying them out. Having said that, and having played Hamburg Steinway D and CD327, Bosendorfer 290, Bechstein, Fazioli, Seiler, Bluthner etc nothing beats the Yamaha keybed in precision and response... Voicing and hammers also make a huge difference...
Both pianos are excellent. Right side piano is deep and sparkling, The left one pickes up where The right one left off. I would buy the the left one money permitting.
They both sound very Kawai-like to me. I don't hear Yamaha at all in the new SK7. Kawai has a full-bodied, lush sound where Yamaha has a stronger attack, a pronounced bloom in the tone with a medium bodied sound and overall seems a bit edgy. There's something almost vintage Steinway-esque about Kawai's tone but it's more subdued. The newer Shigeru may be brighter, and it certainly is louder. So, maybe Kawai has pumped up the acoustics. I like the older one but, as you said, there are some pieces and some venues where the new one would work better than the old. Overall, I think these are absolutely superb sounding pianos.
Very nicely explained. The newer model sounds to me better, it brings me more into music.
When I was buying a piano, I was at a large store filled with new Steinways and Yamahas. There was just one Kawai, a 10 year old RX5 and I kept coming back to it after every other piano I tried. It sounded very similar to that new Shigeru. The upper register was the soundtrack of fairies and the lower register was commanding, dark and deep even in pp. I liked the Steinways, hated the Yamahas and loved the old Kawai... except that the action was extremely heavy.
Just when I had decided to get it, someone from another store calls me with an offer for a new GX3 at the same price of the used RX5. I went there to try it and I kept remebering the sound of that RX5 full of scratches. That's the piano I ended up bringing home.
When the first technician came he not only tuned it but he also voiced it. The sound I loved was gone and it took many months to get it back.
So I am guessing with a few hundred hours of playing, the old Shigeru will sound more like the new. It sounds more like a voicing difference between the 2 than anything else.
In my understanding with the Shigeru Kawai's is that they are hand-made.... (like the steinways are) and as such, each individual instrument would have it's own tone.... what I think is happening, is yes, there are obvious tonal differences between the two beautiful piano's but I would attribute this to be an individual instrument characteristic, not that anything has changed per se..... the one on the left definately does NOT sounds like a Yamaha... still too mellow and classy for that twangyness of the yamaha but that's just my two cents..... oh and ps. I would happily have either of those two pianos.....
Please read the first pinned comment from Don Mannino from Kawai USA. I have been playing Shigeru Kawai pianos since 2016 and they have changed.
@@ThePianoforever okay... that's interesting.... so it is an individual thing that is done by technicians.... also need to take into the factor of the difference in the physical frame/wood/strings and very slight variations that always occur...... for interests sake... could you do the same test on two "new" shigeru Kawai pianos of the same year and also hear differences? if the two different pianos had been finished and voiced by two different technicians?
There are handmade Yamahas as well. I think the whole handmade thing is overblown. Different pianos sound different regardless of how much hand building there is in them. Sometimes manufacturers will brighten pianos based on feedback from customers and maybe that's what has happened with Shigeru. I think Yamahas don't sound like Kawais. They have a finer articular and less body in their tone and they sing differently. But a GC or C Yamaha doesn't sound like a CX and an SX or CF Yamaha is much more refined than a CX. So Yamahas vary as well.
Has anyone tested the new SK3s and found the same tonal differences highlighted in this video? In my mind, I'm thinking and hoping that it's just the individual technician's voicing and regulation before the piano leaves the warehouse. However, I did find that the previous sk3 that I tried last year seemed to lack power for really powerful playing (think climax of Ravel's Ondine) and was a little disappointed in this aspect.
I must admit, that over the years, I've had a yearning for a little less "tinkle" and a bit more "voice" in the upper range. This isn't a comment aimed specifically at Kawai - and I've told you earlier, I have an RX-7. It's partly a question of balance (upper & lower - left vs right), and partly a question of being able to separate the voice/theme/melody from all the other notes that you're playing.
If ever I had the funds to do it, I'd be seriously considering the Blüthner, because of the extra string in the upper range. It would certainly make the cut on the last two, before I ever made my final choice!
This clip suggest Kawai is heading in the same direction. Hmm.
I absolutely like the newer one better. It has a crisp powerful sound but not too bright. The older one has a beautiful and clear mid range.
16:20 Reminds me of that scene in Father Ted, where they show two identical photographs of a sheep, and Father Ted says: "Unbelievable! It's like two completely different sheep!". That is to say, my ears can't tell the difference between the two pianos.
What a great review. Perhaps hand built pianos are a bit like brothers and sisters. Siblings have the same basic genetic input, but they each have their own personalities!
Brand new out of the box.... I wonder if I can ship my piano in a box
I WOULD like to know if the milenium3 mechanic is really better than yamaha wood hamers?
Waiting for Roland fp 30's video 🙂
I tested 2 Kawai K200. Same room. Played one after the other. They both sounded a bit different from each other. One was warm and fuller than the other. I purchased the warm and fuller sounding one. Their serial numbers were different by about 200. I can only guess that even though they're same model and same paint job, the tech that tuned them did it to their taste. I believe each piano has its own sound slightly different from others even if they are the same model.
Do you believe that there are any differences in the construction of the two pianos or just differences in regulation and/or voicing? My impression from the recording is that the newer piano has harder hammers that could be softened and that the fundamental character of the piano is unchanged. FYI: This piano is at the top of my list at the moment.
I don't think there's any substantial difference, just some voicing changes and minor regulation. I just thought it was interesting that the SK7 on the left was so much different. In my opinion, (and unless you really like bright pianos) it's best to buy a piano that's mellow, as opposed to bright, because as you play them it will naturally become brighter.
I like the older one on the right. What would or could the manufacturer done to change the sound and performance of the newer one on the left?
All it is is just voicing, I just thought it was interesting that it was so different from what the older piano is. To make it mellow again, a technician can "needle" the hammers to make them softer.
Can anyone tell me what is the first piece he played at the 4:02 mark. Its beautiful
Sorry, could I know the song you played from the first start at 4:03? It’s really beautiful. Thanks
It's part of a piece that I have been writing.
ThePianoforever what’s the name of your piece? Would love to listen it! So much appreciate
If you search my videos you will find it from time to time. It's just call my test piece.
Tone vs Projection... interesting.
So, the music composed/played is closely related to the instrument. Humm... how many pianos do I need? I guess three or four would be OK... to start with...
PS could you explain voicing and how to locate a piano tech. Had a very hard time finding a good tuner....
.
Voicing should only be done by a high level technician and a good one can be hard to find. I would start with calling high end dealers in your area. It would also be a good idea to contact major universities or performance centers and ask who they use.
@@ThePianoforever thank you
Блестящий!
James, couldn't the newer Kawai just be brighter because the hammers are newer and haven't been voiced/needled for a mellow tone?
There is extensive voicing done on Shigeru Kawai pianos in the factory, all of them. Really, there aren't that many of them made. The hammers are newer, yes, but they've been voiced to have the quality that the new piano has. Another new SK7 may sound more mellow, however.
My question about these type of warm pianos is, "how long will they remain that warm?" In my experience it's only a month or two of regular playing.
That is a valid point, but in this example the pianos are "backwards" since the older one should sound brighter rather than warmer.
@@marianneoelund2940 except that it will remain warm in the showroom, until you bring it home. When its in your home it typically gets played much more and losing it's warmth much more quickly. Plus you have to pay for the upkeep and you end up chasing that original warmness that eventually will never be the same as when you bought it
@@Savartarus
Then you're assuming that both pianos had been strictly showroom denizens since new. I was making the assumption that the older piano had been in use for most of its years, i.e., had spent only a fraction of its life in a showroom. It is difficult to know the history for certain. Perhaps James could enlighten us.
@@marianneoelund2940 he should tell us!
It's sad that you have to explain yourself like that! But hey, you can't please everybody!!
The newer one sounds richer/ fuller. They both sound great though! I could cheat and see what you say, but that’s what I hear.
It would be fun to hear some Scott Joplin on some of those pianos.
From my $60 speakers.... can hear enough difference to distinguish them two XD. like the left one (the newer one?)
Absolutely better the older
Old one being a kawai and like the gx model. The newer one sounds clearer and sharper like Steinway
Matt Damon before he took up acting.
Both great pianos, but the newer one reminds me more a Hamburg Steinway.
I have heard rumors that the design of the Shigeru Kawai is, or was, inspired by Hamburg Steinway.
LOL, there is a huge difference in these two pianos: the first one completely missed the climax of the Bach 1st Prelude.
I hear a twang in the notes.
To my ears, the new one sounds a little bit like a Kawai Upright piano (if you discard the lows). Update: Sorry, but the last piece (21:50) made me cringe when you played it on the new one. Why would you buy Kawai if it sounds like an already popular Yamaha? Nah. But as you said: Maybe it's dependent what music you like and play.
I prefer the newer piano....clearer.........but I have a Yamaha c3. Maybe I'm biased...
Yep, the newer piano definitely has a Yamaha-style tone to it.
I can see what you mean about the differences, although to my ears they do not seem to amount to so much. I definitely prefer the older Kawai. Its glowing tone, especially that fabulous, almost magical bass range, just overwhelms me with its beauty. I seldom that music written after Schumann, and I play a lot of Bach and Haydn, so the earlier Kawai suits me better. Actually my arthrosis limits my playing nowadays to almost nothing, but you know what I mean.
Kawai is my favourite non-German (or non-German-American) piano, but, Blüthner, Bechstein, and (when American-made) Knabe remain my all-time favourite pianos. There are so many wonderful German/Austrian pianos from which to choose and they take the prize, as a national group, for first place.
I still haven't found an American Knabe piano.... Maybe someday.
@@ThePianoforever Hard to find. Would love to hear you present one.
if one is several years old (and the other is brand new) wouldn't the condition of the *_STRINGS_* play a significant role?
Not in this case, it is about the way they are voiced.
These better acoustics are getting nearer to the digitals everyday. Not quite there yet, guys . . . :)
Older one sounds better.