So killer that you showed the whole setup from the top of the climb through multiple transitions. So many other videos start in the middle after the setup has actually taken place. Thanks!
Agree with a lot of that. Things that should stand out to all imo: 1 - always weight-test a new system(pas, rap) before removing the backup from it. How many people fell off & died due to, say, a single strand being actually clipped. None of those would have happened with a simple weight-test while still being leashed on. 2 - Avoid leave the atc/belay device hanging without being clipped to something. I've dropped it once - won't do it again. 3 - Taking the extra time to coild stuff/properly manage ropes. A rope mess / stuck rope takes forever to sort out. Always wortwhile to do it well, but do it once.
Re 1#. It's super important to test it. Also one remark from my side - I prefer to tie two strads together with a simple overhand knot rather than having two separate stoppers. It helps finding the perfect middle of the rope (if your mark has worn out etc) but also prevents from possibility of having one of the end being pulled by the weight of the rope way up to the anchor. Leaving the climber with a stuck rope. This can happen if your rappel distance is close to 1/2 of the rope.
great watching it again. as a mountaineering instructor in India i could easily understand and relate to the demonstration. its always good to see and learn what is being done other parts of the world. Thanks for sharing.
Excellent video - for anyone new to this or watching to learn for the first time, the steps and processes in this video are standard procedure and excellent to follow in this environment. Much respect for a highly informative video. An aside to your conversation about keeping the carabiner or the rope on the ATC at all times - have you tried to simply rock the carabiner over onto the rope, clipping the strands without ever using your hand to open the gate? The only thing that opens the carabiner is the rope and it stays attached to the ATC at all times. Also for unclipping the ATC at the bottom, the two strands of the rope can be pulled away from the ATC and unclipped from the carabiner. This does require opening the gate of the biner with your fingers, however the ATC remains captured in the biner if something causes you to open your hand or swing your arm
I would suggest to always setup your rapell system (atc + 3rd hand) while you both are at the rapell station so you can buddy check each other instead of tying in after your buddy has rapelled to the next anker. That's one of the advantages of an extended rapell setup that both climbers can tie in at the same time.
Awesome video! What I been doing to avoid dropping the ATC. I would make the rope loops longer than the wire loop then hook my carabiner through it. So the ATC is never off the carabiner. If that makes sense for you
18:45. You only put a stopper knot on one end of the rope. You didn’t put a stopper knot on the other end. Also clip gates at master points with wire facing into the rock face?
Thanks für your Videos. Great quality. I would like to see a Video about what to do when something goes wrong rappeling. E.g. your Rope gets stuck/ you forget to loosen your stopper knot when pulling the rope or you notice you did rappel to far. Thank you from Germany :)
For sure, I'll likely do one on a stuck rope soon. Here a technique you can do if you rappel past where you should be: th-cam.com/video/PYDa0JAkBjM/w-d-xo.html
Best vid yet love all your vids ,may I ask what would you do if stoppa knot was not untied when you pull the rope back through and you never had a spare rope.
Nice video as always! When rappeling with a gri-gri (by making a carabiner block) do you still suggest to add a third hand ? The grigri has a self-blocking functionality on its own.
Thanks George. No need to use a thirdhand with a gri gri. Although if you need to go hands free, make an overhand knot on the back side to prevent anything catastrophic if the gri gri fails.
Love the video, thanks. Absolute beginner here with a question. During the climbing phase, why did you end up with a top rope scenario around 5:22? My guess is that on the last pitch, rather than both climbing up and then having to rappel down, its easier if the first climber leads and then comes back down to top rope the other climber. Is that it?
Hi awesome video. One big question is what can I do if the rope gets stuck with something for example a tree branch after I finished rappelling when I’m pulling the rope . Or if I forgot to take the knot out. What are my options there ? Thanks for the video very informative
First I’d try to set up a 3:1 haul and pull it. Second would be to climb up on lead with the other end of the rope… last option would be ascend the rope (if you pulled hard with the haul and the rope got really wedges)… which I would probably not feel comfortable with but could be situational.
Been into climbing for a while but because of work and life stuff getting in the way I haven’t been actually climbing yet in a gym to start then hopefully sport/trad. But I’m am great full for your videos. They get me psyched to climb an more importantly learn! Safety first! But I will be making it to the climbing gym in the next few weeks. So keep up the great work and thanks again for all the stoke! ✌️,❤️,respect from Boston,MA 🧗🏼🏄🏽♂️yeew!
Oh wow what an amazing trip. I have to find some semi local multipitches. But my best guess is that anything this grand is probably at least a flight away. Inspiring
you mentioned that having the teeth up on your atc when rapelling creates less friction, but wouldn't it still be the same about of friction being that the top of the rope (going back up to the anchor) still rubs against the top of the anchor
For somebody who doesn't climb in areas like this and is still learning, help a n00b. At 7:12, there are two anchors in the rocks and they look like they are bolted in. Does somebody climb up with a drill and affix those anchors to the rocks? How does this process work?
Hey John. Yes believe it or not, someone carried a drill of some kind this far into the back country and up that mountain to drill those bolts in. They typically will fill the void space with an epoxy as well. These bolts were in very good condition, they can definitely be in worse condition if they are not in a high traffic area.
Here's the big 5.7+ we did (and got off route): www.mountainproject.com/route/105827735/east-face-left-side-cracks Here's the shorter route featured in this video: www.mountainproject.com/route/105827746/south-buttress
Nice... we did the East Face as well (5.7+), it was pretty epic. The Northeast face was pretty much inaccessible due to snow (guess I'll have to go back).
Why did not you use locked carabiners instead of biners when setting up the quad? Would not it be safer? Do you think biners are safe enough since the climber puts his weight on the master point just after the quad is set? Sorry if I said something wrong, I am not that familiar with the English climbing terminology.
Great content, thank you! The only thing I've never seen before and didn't understand is having the 2nd rapeller go on rappel at the same time above the leader. Is that for the purpose of checking one another? Just another point of attachment or what? Thanks!
It's called stacking rappells and it allows you to prerig so partners can double check the setup. It also prevents the rope from shifting if say you were using two different diameters. And, if you are in a party of three two people can rapell the same time on single strands since the upper rapell device locks the two strands. Lastly, he mentions not using a 'J' due to lack of rope length... That is referring to the tying of a bight and clipping that into the anchor below the upper person so that the weight of the lower climber is not directly off the upper person as it can pull them off their ideal stance.
You shouldn't hold your stopper knot in your hand 13:56 while rappelling. Grab the rope above it and push it down. If you lose control your instinct will be to squeeze your hand, rendering the stopper knot useless. At least that's what I've been thought
Recently had a double rappel in the dark. Second anchor almost impossible to find. It was pretty bad. Two 70mm tied together for length. Four of us stuck on the summit for hours. So much learning. Chiefly that a long multi is an expedition not a sporting activity and should be treated as such. Also if you are rappelling in the near dark and you know there are teams below you, then by god mark the anchors somehow. I intend in future to have two headtorches, one I can attach to an anchor if I think someone will need to find it in the dark.
It looks like Clinton is using two personal anchors, is that correct? The Camp Swing, as well as a yellow sling. Any reason in particular hes doing that?
Can you explain me why when you rappel first your partner has already is rappel device and 3rd hand attached to the rope above you (but not the other way around)? I feel like I don't like it: it's like you are rappelling from your partner instead of the anchors. Doesn't it put too much stress on the rope passing through your partner's ATC and on his ATC as well? Thank you 😊
@@summitseekersexperience You're totally right, you can see it at 11:45, it's just tied pretty far from the end. Worth obsessing over this detail, lol.
What if you forget to untie your stopper knot before pulling your rope out from the previous pitch and pull it too high above you? Is there a way to get that end of the rope back down? Probably will never happen if you take your time but what if?
Short answer: don't! But if you do, better hope the rap route descends a less-than-half-rope-length pitch that's within your ability. Then you can lead back up the pitch on the other side of the rope and clear it that way. However, if the rap route descends a harder route, or even a blank face that isn't a route (more common than you think) and you can't climb back up, especially if it's longer than half a rope, you're in trouble! I'll let the professionals decide whether or not to share with you a solution to that scenario!
I noticed they only tied the stopper knot on one end. In the bright sun on a nice day with full visibility that’s probably not an issue. However in the dark ,frozen snowing cold , howling wind drowning out your uncoordinated yelling through chattering teeth,with fading to yellow or no head lamp (don’t ask how I know) it might be an issue if some how a wet rope slipped to uneven and the unknotted end went through your rappel device your third hand weighting only the knotted side pulling your entire rope through the rappel rings and probably saying farewell to your partner stranded at the rappel station assuming it happens so fast they’ll be unable to stop you before you leave pieces of yourself on your way to the base of the climb? Not that it doesn’t create other added mostly untying issues to deal with but it may prevent the unbalanced single knot oh $#y+ moment from happening. Instead of knotting one or both ends we usually knotted the bottom ends together in a figure 8 or overhand.forming a continuous loop. Yes the bigger combined knot can get stuck on or off route as it’s fed or tossed down. Considering all my partners and I are still here it was never a unmanageable situation. Also with or without the 3rd hand you can also clip your personal anchor into one rope as it’s knotted at both ends (if you’re using two ropes or a single) in a continuous loop and you won’t rappel off the end of your rope if you’re doing multiple free hanging rappels. So having to untie both ends of the bottom before you pull it through the rings at the top will prevent the knot from hitting the rappel station. Fun stuff happens when you go climbing so I can’t guarantee the unknotted end won’t million to one get stuck or tie itself into it’s own knot once it passes out of sight. On those occasions I’ve been known to begin reassessing by uttering some choice words and anchor in higher begin jumping out away to free the jam , re-climb, figure out, or self rescue how to get out of the escalating mini epic without calling for outside help. Hopefully you’ll manage and learn some useful stuff and maybe have some fun stories to tell years from now.
Why use the quad when you can just clip your PAS to one of the two bolts? You can then use a sling or quickdraw to connect the bolts for redundancy. Saves you time so you don’t have to rig your quad up every rap, and also you’ll be able to fix your PAS higher and closer to the bolts instead of being low down on your quad
I use a quad as well, mainly because it gives you so much extra space to work with. Fitting the rope through the rings, plus my tether, my backup tether, and my partner’s tether and backup… it sometimes ends up kind of a mess of carabiners. Using a quad just simplifies it. That’s the main reason. At least, the main reason I personally do it - for me, taking a few moments to clip a pre-rigged quad is well worth it.
One reason I don't typically do what you described above is because there can be some shockload potential if one of the bolts were to fail. The quickdraw is normally not the "perfect length" so I normally steer away from this technique. Additionally as mentioned, I do also like the extra real estate the quad gives and the fact that I can pre-rig makes it basically take no time.
@@summitseekersexperience I prefer going direct to bolt -> backup bolt/2nd direct -> "off rappel" as it's fewer steps. Importantly, fewer connection changes. For me, this simpler process avoids mistakes & outweighs a little shock potential. Mistakes worry me more than blown bolts, and clipping bolt (still "on rappel") -> setting the quad -> unclipping bolt -> clipping quad -> "off rappel" feels like more dice rolls. If the rock/bolt was iffy, I might find the backup shock risk more worrisome than I do on bomber granite. On the other hand, if you're climbing on mostly bolted belays and living off pre-tied quads, might be simpler to always stay either "on rope" or "on quad" and just consider the initial clip-in as a "backup" while the rap's hands-free. Then it's less about the steps and more about the simpler mental model.
@@kevinmcdonough9097 so do you mean basically having two PAS's and clipping directly to each bolt and then rapping off that? This would definitely work in single pitch, but how do you do this in multipitch rappelling and make room for your partner?
I'm going to weight in on that and confess - on nice hardware in well-travelled routes, I'll typically not bother putting an anchor either, and just clip into either one. My thinking being: 1 - If the hardware is recent on well-travelled routes, it's been tested aplenty and is thus reliable 2 - You generate ~ body-weight for the whole of this process. Even in the extremely freak event where the anchor I leash to is somewhat compromised, I'm unlikely to generate any force that would cause failure In other words - I'm not worried about a good bolt failing while rappelling. Thus I consider that as good as a single leash (also a single pt of failure) and the rope/belay devices (also single points of failure on lead, where forces are likely to be much higher). If the gear looks suspicious (e.g. some indication of corrosion, looks older, unfamiliar/non-standard hardware, suspicious rock...) then I'll put in an anchor.
The whole quad thing is so slow on an alpine route. All that time setting it up while still on rappel and preventing your partner from rappelling down to you. Also, not sure why you’re not coiling the rope as you’re pulling your end through the rings. You pulled it and stacked it, then had to coil it. Seems slow and unnecessary. Time adds up after a bunch of raps. …but thanks for posting a clear and informative video!
For the most efficient, strongest, and safest tie a CLOVE HITCH AT ALL ANCHOR POINTS AND MASTER POINT! TIE STOPPER KNOTS AT ENDS OF STRANDS ON ALL RAPPELS! from rapping off ends of rope! Remember that knots close the system & weaken it by 50% ! The Clove Hitch is not a knot and keep the system open for adjustments!!!
Neither of you guys are using an atc those are both reversos. Atc is black diamond specific. Doesn't really matter but my brain wouldn't let me not say something.
Also don’t need “extra” friction on your ATC for 2 reasons. The first is you are using a third hand. The second is any rap over 25 meters the rope puts enough weight on the rope. The teeth are really there for belaying.
@@Sammykallday FYI, it's normal practice to put the biners on the rap rings because if you put them on the quick links then when you pass the rope through the rings, it's likely that you'll pass the rope through the biners too which can cause some issues potentially. In regards to the teeth, better for the friction to be on the ATC then wearing out my third hand.
bro please don't untie your rope like that. feed a bight through the rings and then tie your stopper on the bight. or better a clove on a draw on your harness. then you can untie your figure 8. this way your rope will be always secured to you so you can't drop it.
I like how Clinton is always tied in with two points of contact! Nice work from his side
So killer that you showed the whole setup from the top of the climb through multiple transitions. So many other videos start in the middle after the setup has actually taken place. Thanks!
Nice, glad you found it helpful
One of the most complete multipitch rapel videos!
Agree with a lot of that. Things that should stand out to all imo:
1 - always weight-test a new system(pas, rap) before removing the backup from it. How many people fell off & died due to, say, a single strand being actually clipped. None of those would have happened with a simple weight-test while still being leashed on.
2 - Avoid leave the atc/belay device hanging without being clipped to something. I've dropped it once - won't do it again.
3 - Taking the extra time to coild stuff/properly manage ropes. A rope mess / stuck rope takes forever to sort out. Always wortwhile to do it well, but do it once.
Agree 100%
To add to this, MAKE SURE TO TAKE THE STOPPER KNOT OUT OF THE ROPE BEFORE PULLING IT!!! AND RETIE IT!!
Re 1#. It's super important to test it.
Also one remark from my side - I prefer to tie two strads together with a simple overhand knot rather than having two separate stoppers. It helps finding the perfect middle of the rope (if your mark has worn out etc) but also prevents from possibility of having one of the end being pulled by the weight of the rope way up to the anchor. Leaving the climber with a stuck rope. This can happen if your rappel distance is close to 1/2 of the rope.
Great Tutorial! Needed a refresher and got that plus added tips! Thanks!
Yet again another fantastic tutorial, but this was the best. It was like I was on the trip with you and Clinton
Thanks, glad you liked it!!! this one was definitely fun
great watching it again. as a mountaineering instructor in India i could easily understand and relate to the demonstration. its always good to see and learn what is being done other parts of the world. Thanks for sharing.
Nice, where in India do you guide? or do you go up to Nepal?
@@summitseekersexperience I guide in the Indian Himalayas mainly.
Excellent video and climb! The Winds are an amazing place. I like your attention to detail and being redundant at all times. Thanks for posting.
Excellent video - for anyone new to this or watching to learn for the first time, the steps and processes in this video are standard procedure and excellent to follow in this environment. Much respect for a highly informative video.
An aside to your conversation about keeping the carabiner or the rope on the ATC at all times - have you tried to simply rock the carabiner over onto the rope, clipping the strands without ever using your hand to open the gate? The only thing that opens the carabiner is the rope and it stays attached to the ATC at all times.
Also for unclipping the ATC at the bottom, the two strands of the rope can be pulled away from the ATC and unclipped from the carabiner. This does require opening the gate of the biner with your fingers, however the ATC remains captured in the biner if something causes you to open your hand or swing your arm
Looks sick! Tutorials on real rock are the best! 🙌🏽
For sure, I'm going to start trying to work a tutorial into each one of my climbing days.
This answered so many questions and I’m just watching it muted riding my exercise bike thanks 🙏
nice!
Great video showing the whole process with lots of explanation. I like it.
for sure!
Fantastic to see top to bottom! Great video, like all your others!
Your best video to date. Thanks for making it.
for sure, thanks for the feedback!
11:47 Why only a stopper knot on one end? Shouldn't both ends have a stopper knot?
I would suggest to always setup your rapell system (atc + 3rd hand) while you both are at the rapell station so you can buddy check each other instead of tying in after your buddy has rapelled to the next anker. That's one of the advantages of an extended rapell setup that both climbers can tie in at the same time.
Awesome video! What I been doing to avoid dropping the ATC. I would make the rope loops longer than the wire loop then hook my carabiner through it. So the ATC is never off the carabiner. If that makes sense for you
Best videos for climbing!!! Very nice!!!!
Perfect Video :) answered my last questiins that i had
18:45. You only put a stopper knot on one end of the rope. You didn’t put a stopper knot on the other end.
Also clip gates at master points with wire facing into the rock face?
Thanks für your Videos. Great quality. I would like to see a Video about what to do when something goes wrong rappeling. E.g. your Rope gets stuck/ you forget to loosen your stopper knot when pulling the rope or you notice you did rappel to far. Thank you from Germany :)
For sure, I'll likely do one on a stuck rope soon. Here a technique you can do if you rappel past where you should be:
th-cam.com/video/PYDa0JAkBjM/w-d-xo.html
Best vid yet love all your vids ,may I ask what would you do if stoppa knot was not untied when you pull the rope back through and you never had a spare rope.
great video thanks from france!
Thanks!! I need to get back over to Europe and do some climbing for sure.
Nice video as always! When rappeling with a gri-gri (by making a carabiner block) do you still suggest to add a third hand ? The grigri has a self-blocking functionality on its own.
Thanks George. No need to use a thirdhand with a gri gri. Although if you need to go hands free, make an overhand knot on the back side to prevent anything catastrophic if the gri gri fails.
awesome video, where did you get your hoodie shirt?
Excellent Tutorial
Thanks for the awesome video!
For sure!!
Love the video, thanks. Absolute beginner here with a question. During the climbing phase, why did you end up with a top rope scenario around 5:22?
My guess is that on the last pitch, rather than both climbing up and then having to rappel down, its easier if the first climber leads and then comes back down to top rope the other climber. Is that it?
Awesome content! Please keep it up!
for sure
Awesome tutorial 👍
Thanks!!!
Hi awesome video. One big question is what can I do if the rope gets stuck with something for example a tree branch after I finished rappelling when I’m pulling the rope . Or if I forgot to take the knot out.
What are my options there ?
Thanks for the video very informative
@summitseekers
First I’d try to set up a 3:1 haul and pull it. Second would be to climb up on lead with the other end of the rope… last option would be ascend the rope (if you pulled hard with the haul and the rope got really wedges)… which I would probably not feel comfortable with but could be situational.
Been into climbing for a while but because of work and life stuff getting in the way I haven’t been actually climbing yet in a gym to start then hopefully sport/trad. But I’m am great full for your videos. They get me psyched to climb an more importantly learn! Safety first! But I will be making it to the climbing gym in the next few weeks. So keep up the great work and thanks again for all the stoke! ✌️,❤️,respect from Boston,MA 🧗🏼🏄🏽♂️yeew!
Thanks1!
Oh wow what an amazing trip. I have to find some semi local multipitches. But my best guess is that anything this grand is probably at least a flight away. Inspiring
A lot of stuff this big, you have to fly, but go for it!
using 2 ropes is different and there are more variables to consider. i learned all of this by fire.
you mentioned that having the teeth up on your atc when rapelling creates less friction, but wouldn't it still be the same about of friction being that the top of the rope (going back up to the anchor) still rubs against the top of the anchor
Thank you so much!!
What size rope? Kinda looks like Beal Opera 8.5mm 60m, yes?
edelweiss 9.2... I don't remember the name off the top of my head but they only have one. Unicore though.
What do you do if you forget to untie the stopper knot and pull the rope up? Call for help?
For somebody who doesn't climb in areas like this and is still learning, help a n00b. At 7:12, there are two anchors in the rocks and they look like they are bolted in. Does somebody climb up with a drill and affix those anchors to the rocks? How does this process work?
Hey John. Yes believe it or not, someone carried a drill of some kind this far into the back country and up that mountain to drill those bolts in. They typically will fill the void space with an epoxy as well. These bolts were in very good condition, they can definitely be in worse condition if they are not in a high traffic area.
Awesome video! Can you put a link to the route on mountain proj please 😊
Here's the big 5.7+ we did (and got off route):
www.mountainproject.com/route/105827735/east-face-left-side-cracks
Here's the shorter route featured in this video:
www.mountainproject.com/route/105827746/south-buttress
Amazing.cool guys.love it.your crazy
Amazing route! It’s not the 50 classic though, that’s Northeast Face. Great video!
Nice... we did the East Face as well (5.7+), it was pretty epic. The Northeast face was pretty much inaccessible due to snow (guess I'll have to go back).
Why did not you use locked carabiners instead of biners when setting up the quad? Would not it be safer? Do you think biners are safe enough since the climber puts his weight on the master point just after the quad is set? Sorry if I said something wrong, I am not that familiar with the English climbing terminology.
nonlocking carabiners are safe enough in a system that is redundant. This would meet the standards that I've been trained on.
Great content, thank you! The only thing I've never seen before and didn't understand is having the 2nd rapeller go on rappel at the same time above the leader.
Is that for the purpose of checking one another? Just another point of attachment or what? Thanks!
It's called stacking rappells and it allows you to prerig so partners can double check the setup. It also prevents the rope from shifting if say you were using two different diameters. And, if you are in a party of three two people can rapell the same time on single strands since the upper rapell device locks the two strands. Lastly, he mentions not using a 'J' due to lack of rope length... That is referring to the tying of a bight and clipping that into the anchor below the upper person so that the weight of the lower climber is not directly off the upper person as it can pull them off their ideal stance.
You shouldn't hold your stopper knot in your hand 13:56 while rappelling. Grab the rope above it and push it down. If you lose control your instinct will be to squeeze your hand, rendering the stopper knot useless. At least that's what I've been thought
Are you referring to the 3rd hand / prusik? (Different than a stopper knot.) I've never heard that but I suppose it makes sense.
Getting up the route, was it a trad route or bolted route?
All trad including anchor stations.
@@summitseekersexperience what was the range of cams you guys used?
@@luckyradhakeesoon590 Had doubles 0.3-3.0 and singles at 0.1/0.2 which helped on the 5.8+ finger crack K crack (optional pitch).
Recently had a double rappel in the dark. Second anchor almost impossible to find. It was pretty bad. Two 70mm tied together for length. Four of us stuck on the summit for hours. So much learning. Chiefly that a long multi is an expedition not a sporting activity and should be treated as such. Also if you are rappelling in the near dark and you know there are teams below you, then by god mark the anchors somehow. I intend in future to have two headtorches, one I can attach to an anchor if I think someone will need to find it in the dark.
Question. Why make an anchor system and bring more stuff? Wouldn’t be ok to just connect in using your adjustable landyard? Thanks for any info 😃
You need to make the anchor system your clipping to redundant… there are many ways to do this with two bolts… one example was shown in this video.
It looks like Clinton is using two personal anchors, is that correct? The Camp Swing, as well as a yellow sling.
Any reason in particular hes doing that?
He’s a scaredy cat
A good idea is to secure the rope at the bottom station, while the last person is repelling. More important on poor stations.
Can you explain me why when you rappel first your partner has already is rappel device and 3rd hand attached to the rope above you (but not the other way around)?
I feel like I don't like it: it's like you are rappelling from your partner instead of the anchors.
Doesn't it put too much stress on the rope passing through your partner's ATC and on his ATC as well?
Thank you 😊
I have Leander that your Master Point should always be with lockers or two non lockers in other gate directions on the two bolts
awesome video :)
Glad you liked it, get out there!!
Thank you for the great instructional video! Quick question, why don't we use stopper knots on both ends when tossing the rope? Cheers
You probably just don't see it, but I do have a stopper knot on both ends. Always important to close the system completely.
@@summitseekersexperience At around 11:35 it looks like the second half of the rope doesn't have a stopper knot?
@@scottmarshallgilmore Yeah, I took a double take at that too, but it was tied, just the way it was being held it was hard to see.
@@summitseekersexperience You're totally right, you can see it at 11:45, it's just tied pretty far from the end. Worth obsessing over this detail, lol.
What if you forget to untie your stopper knot before pulling your rope out from the previous pitch and pull it too high above you? Is there a way to get that end of the rope back down? Probably will never happen if you take your time but what if?
Short answer: don't! But if you do, better hope the rap route descends a less-than-half-rope-length pitch that's within your ability. Then you can lead back up the pitch on the other side of the rope and clear it that way.
However, if the rap route descends a harder route, or even a blank face that isn't a route (more common than you think) and you can't climb back up, especially if it's longer than half a rope, you're in trouble!
I'll let the professionals decide whether or not to share with you a solution to that scenario!
I noticed they only tied the stopper knot on one end. In the bright sun on a nice day with full visibility that’s probably not an issue. However in the dark ,frozen snowing cold , howling wind drowning out your uncoordinated yelling through chattering teeth,with fading to yellow or no head lamp (don’t ask how I know) it might be an issue if some how a wet rope slipped to uneven and the unknotted end went through your rappel device your third hand weighting only the knotted side pulling your entire rope through the rappel rings and probably saying farewell to your partner stranded at the rappel station assuming it happens so fast they’ll be unable to stop you before you leave pieces of yourself on your way to the base of the climb? Not that it doesn’t create other added mostly untying issues to deal with but it may prevent the unbalanced single knot oh $#y+ moment from happening. Instead of knotting one or both ends we usually knotted the bottom ends together in a figure 8 or overhand.forming a continuous loop. Yes the bigger combined knot can get stuck on or off route as it’s fed or tossed down. Considering all my partners and I are still here it was never a unmanageable situation. Also with or without the 3rd hand you can also clip your personal anchor into one rope as it’s knotted at both ends (if you’re using two ropes or a single) in a continuous loop and you won’t rappel off the end of your rope if you’re doing multiple free hanging rappels. So having to untie both ends of the bottom before you pull it through the rings at the top will prevent the knot from hitting the rappel station. Fun stuff happens when you go climbing so I can’t guarantee the unknotted end won’t million to one get stuck or tie itself into it’s own knot once it passes out of sight. On those occasions I’ve been known to begin reassessing by uttering some choice words and anchor in higher begin jumping out away to free the jam , re-climb, figure out, or self rescue how to get out of the escalating mini epic without calling for outside help. Hopefully you’ll manage and learn some useful stuff and maybe have some fun stories to tell years from now.
The date of this video, please!
How Long was your rope
I think 70… you can do this rap route with a 60
How were the mosquitoes?
No mosquitos high up where we were camping. Down at Big Sandy... different story ;-)
@Alpine to the Max says it's stupid to yell out "ROPE" before tossing it. Thoughts?
Stupid is a strong word. I just shout in case I don't see someone. Or I do saddle bags.
I don't get why use the quad when you can just clip directly to the bolt, since it's all temporary, you're not using them as anchors for rappeling.
Why use the quad when you can just clip your PAS to one of the two bolts? You can then use a sling or quickdraw to connect the bolts for redundancy. Saves you time so you don’t have to rig your quad up every rap, and also you’ll be able to fix your PAS higher and closer to the bolts instead of being low down on your quad
I use a quad as well, mainly because it gives you so much extra space to work with. Fitting the rope through the rings, plus my tether, my backup tether, and my partner’s tether and backup… it sometimes ends up kind of a mess of carabiners. Using a quad just simplifies it. That’s the main reason. At least, the main reason I personally do it - for me, taking a few moments to clip a pre-rigged quad is well worth it.
One reason I don't typically do what you described above is because there can be some shockload potential if one of the bolts were to fail. The quickdraw is normally not the "perfect length" so I normally steer away from this technique.
Additionally as mentioned, I do also like the extra real estate the quad gives and the fact that I can pre-rig makes it basically take no time.
@@summitseekersexperience I prefer going direct to bolt -> backup bolt/2nd direct -> "off rappel" as it's fewer steps. Importantly, fewer connection changes. For me, this simpler process avoids mistakes & outweighs a little shock potential. Mistakes worry me more than blown bolts, and clipping bolt (still "on rappel") -> setting the quad -> unclipping bolt -> clipping quad -> "off rappel" feels like more dice rolls. If the rock/bolt was iffy, I might find the backup shock risk more worrisome than I do on bomber granite.
On the other hand, if you're climbing on mostly bolted belays and living off pre-tied quads, might be simpler to always stay either "on rope" or "on quad" and just consider the initial clip-in as a "backup" while the rap's hands-free. Then it's less about the steps and more about the simpler mental model.
@@kevinmcdonough9097 so do you mean basically having two PAS's and clipping directly to each bolt and then rapping off that? This would definitely work in single pitch, but how do you do this in multipitch rappelling and make room for your partner?
I'm going to weight in on that and confess - on nice hardware in well-travelled routes, I'll typically not bother putting an anchor either, and just clip into either one. My thinking being:
1 - If the hardware is recent on well-travelled routes, it's been tested aplenty and is thus reliable
2 - You generate ~ body-weight for the whole of this process. Even in the extremely freak event where the anchor I leash to is somewhat compromised, I'm unlikely to generate any force that would cause failure
In other words - I'm not worried about a good bolt failing while rappelling. Thus I consider that as good as a single leash (also a single pt of failure) and the rope/belay devices (also single points of failure on lead, where forces are likely to be much higher).
If the gear looks suspicious (e.g. some indication of corrosion, looks older, unfamiliar/non-standard hardware, suspicious rock...) then I'll put in an anchor.
The whole quad thing is so slow on an alpine route. All that time setting it up while still on rappel and preventing your partner from rappelling down to you. Also, not sure why you’re not coiling the rope as you’re pulling your end through the rings. You pulled it and stacked it, then had to coil it. Seems slow and unnecessary. Time adds up after a bunch of raps. …but thanks for posting a clear and informative video!
Thanks Alan... Curious as to what solution you would use at each bolted anchor station that would be faster than having pre-rigged quads?
why do it simpel when you can do it complicated?
"... Clinton's not sharing his waffle."
I do not like the guide-client set up, when both are sitting on the double ropes. I think in the long run, it's not the best.
For the most efficient, strongest, and safest tie a CLOVE HITCH AT ALL ANCHOR POINTS AND MASTER POINT! TIE STOPPER KNOTS AT ENDS OF STRANDS ON ALL RAPPELS! from rapping off ends of rope! Remember that knots close the system & weaken it by 50% ! The Clove Hitch is not a knot and keep the system open for adjustments!!!
Neither of you guys are using an atc those are both reversos. Atc is black diamond specific. Doesn't really matter but my brain wouldn't let me not say something.
Correct, collectively though, I've seen climbers call all tube devices ATCs... not sure if you see the same thing where you are.
Stop putting the biners of your quad through the rap rings. Put them through the quick Links.
Also don’t need “extra” friction on your ATC for 2 reasons. The first is you are using a third hand. The second is any rap over 25 meters the rope puts enough weight on the rope. The teeth are really there for belaying.
@@Sammykallday FYI, it's normal practice to put the biners on the rap rings because if you put them on the quick links then when you pass the rope through the rings, it's likely that you'll pass the rope through the biners too which can cause some issues potentially. In regards to the teeth, better for the friction to be on the ATC then wearing out my third hand.
Just clip the quad (if you really need one) to the bolt hangers (and thread the rope under the biners) like Clinton does at 23:25.
bro please don't untie your rope like that. feed a bight through the rings and then tie your stopper on the bight. or better a clove on a draw on your harness. then you can untie your figure 8. this way your rope will be always secured to you so you can't drop it.