I first encountered the Cathars in Umberto Ecco’s marvelous book “The Name of the Rose”. They were just one of several groups of people trying to protest the wealth and power of the Roman Catholic Church in Medieval times. These groups posed a serious threat to the RCC because they preached a life devoid of excesses and using the church to call up armies to go and ruthlessly crush the “heresy” that the Cathars, Albigensians, etc. we’re spreading throughout much of Europe at that time.
@@Shinobi33 there's no such thing as "right beliefs". We can't know which beliefs are right or wrong. As long as one's beliefs do not harm someone they should be OK.
I'm from the south west of France and I thank you so much for covering this. One of the cathedrals in my city still bears the scars of our resistence against oppression and malice.
Catharism came from the Bogomils that migrated from the Balkans in the 11th century. They were present in Northern Italy and most of France...especially in the Languedoc region.
@@fantasia55 ... not ''Bogomils'' (Bogumil is a Slavic word meaning ''those who God, the Creator, favors) ''believers'' (Muslim is an Arabic word which just means ''believer'') and Christians (I mean initial Christians who followed the Jesus's teaching)) were on the same side,... while the Vatican or so called ''Catholics'' were waged wars on them,... we can say that Vatican hijacked what once was Christianity,...
@@albigensiac3206 Jehovah Witnesses believe that Jesus died for our sins, yet they believe that He didn’t rise again; not a sect of Christianity. It’s a separate religion.
The Roman Catholic Church gifted us Christendom. I doubt you'll bemoan the Egyptian, Persian, Chinese, etc etc, civilisations who crushed aberrant forces that threatened their survival.
@@albigensiac3206 Most of the people that died were not Cathars. Simon de Montfort switched from killing Cathars to obtaining land early on in the Crusade. The Crusade was more about changing land ownership (getting certain Counts out because they simply looked the other way instead of persecuting the Cathars). Simon de Montfort wanted land and power and mainly killed Christians.
@@albigensiac3206 Phillip and Louis didn't really get involved until after the death of Simon de Montfort in 1218. Beziers is a good example of numbers. The Crusaders had a list of 222 people they wanted. The City told them to *#^ off. 20,000 died...19,778 were Christians. Needless to say, the Crusade just changed who owned the land. Phillip and Louis ended up as the winners. The "Prefects" were eventually killed or just died off. The Inquisition eventually worked through conversion.
I live in Cather country in Roussillions. My village was burned to the ground 3 times, the last time, they torched the mayor, the cathedral and population hiding within it. The church was always rotten.
As an Eastern Orthodox I’m fascinated by this group and their history in relation to the RCC, what happened to them is horrible and unChrist-Like. Their concept of evil is wild to me and I wonder how they got to that conclusion. I would have enjoyed having a conversation with one about it. We explain the existence of evil through free will and ego. God loves us enough to give us choice in how we live, even if it means letting us harm ourselves or others. The Prodigal Son is a perfect depiction of this, the father honors the sons choice and gives him the inheritance even though he knows it will lead to not only the sons suffering but also the suffering of their whole family due to the loss of resource. But when the son comes crawling back in humility, the father sees him first and meets the him where he is and accepts him. Cause God doesn’t reject you, there is no place that is absent of God (who is love), instead it’s you yourself who refuse him. He allows us to make the choice to become united with him or not. We have our egos, our fallen/selfish nature, which we are meant to correct in the process of Theosis, but that process requires our consent. Obedience is an act of love, it’s a choice, if you perform obedience without that loving free will, then it is called duty, and God doesn’t want you to be duty bound to him, he wants you to live in a loving unity with his Energies
Im french, it does actually exist a few remaining treaty (4 in total if im not wrong) written by Cathars, i don't know if they are avaible in english. They are answering all of your points. For instance they does not belive in free will. For them if men are evil it is because they have been built in such a way, and placed in such condition that they cannot not be evil, it is determined. Same go for angels, if angels are good it is because they have been made in such condition that they can only be good. The true freedom for them is to be free from the material world determinism that does not exist in the spiritual world. Also they contradict the fact that even if the free will exist the evil only come from it because most of the disease and suffering are not coming from the direct hands of men. A lion can slowly eat alive a gazelle and that have nothing to do with a hypothetical human free will.
Look up Bogomilism. One theory states that the practictioners of Bogomilism talked with crusaders passing by. They would later perhaps have brought the ideas to France. Moreover, the person who started it was actually burnt at the stake by Alexius Comnenus. Lastly, these ideas might have been influenced by the Paulicians who were resettled in Bulgaria.
Interesting you say all this about it being unChristlike what happened to them and how they were treated when among Eastern Orthodox Christians the treatment of Jews historically was and persists to be abysmal.
I don't think that obedience is a choice, however, it is not an act of love… faith, trust & respect is, as must as it is a free choice. Obedience is another word for complying to arbitrary rule or either subservient order(s); as least to me, it sort of a kin of slavery or tyranny.
There has been a revival of the Cathars. I went to a meeting of modern day Cathars. They claim to eat fish as well plant foods. The men wore blue frocks with maritime ish embroidery on the yoke "boats and waves etc" The ladies wore modest clothing inc head scarfs. I was so excited that this niche group had an open meeting in Covent. Garden uk. Id love to read The Book Love but it remains illusive.Wild to think of what became of those original Very Godly Cathars people . Thank you this great video as info on this group is pretty scarce ❤
Not really. They didn't mention free will. That's the reason evil exists. God gave us free will to do as we please. Which is what Satanists preach. To do as you please whenever you want. Which pushes man further away from God
The Albigensian Crusade seems to have become a blindspot in Medieval European history. As somebody who took GCSE History, AS and A-level history and somebody who would actively read about European Medieval history in my spare time; when I went to university aged 19; I was little prepared for what I was about to learn.
@Hamter Who am I to say also. Thank-you for your comment and kindness in delivering it. We can debate this a long time and still not have answer. In the meantime we can try to reduce suffering in the world.
Paulo Coelho's saying that "The world is changed by your example, not your opinion" was exemplified with the Cathars. Though the Church characteristically obsessed about their beliefs and denounced them as "heretical", it was the Cathar way of life, not their doctrine that attracted people: living examples of people who sought to sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. The second striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
Paulo Coelho's saying that "The world is changed by your example, not your opinion" was exemplified with the Cathars. Though the Church characteristically obsessed about their beliefs and denounced them as "heretical", it was the Cathar way of life, not their doctrine that attracted people: living examples of people who sought to sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. The second striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
Sounds similar to Catholic Priests, Monks and Nuns. Where did you learn that lay Cathars had children etc? Did they consider having children a sin? If so, the Cathars sound a teeny bit like an extinction/death cult.
@@Tom-sd9jb They could marry (following their own rituals) and have children and it was not considered a sin, as I remember, it would not bar them from becoming Perfects themselves later on. Indeed, Cathars were advised NOT to aspire to Perfect-hood in their youth and many Cathars only became Perfects in their old age. But you could call them a death cult, yes. They essentially believed that this world was created by Lucifer. I read about them in Jonathan Sumption's excellent book on the Albigensian Crusade.
I just listened to it. For anyone else, there is a version that has the lyrics. I have to say ,though the music makes my ears bleed. (perhaps that's their point?) The songwriter is VERY well educated. I liked the subtle reference to the fate of the Templars - although they did not participate in the Albigensian Crusade.
There were many religious groups with basically same beliefs as Cathars. In Eastern Europe these groups were prosecuted and seen as enemy of the Church and the state. Bogumils were basically the same as Cathars with their beliefs and religion practices. Difference between them is that Cathars were allowed to congregate and dwell , while Bogumils were mainly seen as beggars, and were stripped of most rights. They could not own any land (not that they wanted it) on which they could build homes. There are two main reasons why these people were considered dangerous . They wouldn't recognize any authority nor pay any taxes to any institution. They also wouldn't bear any arms. Now, this would not be so dangerous if only poor people were of these beliefs. Main fear was that land owners along with his peasants would adopt these beliefs and practices. Threat of these people refusing to bear arms, send their people to war, or not to pay any taxes was huge to ruling authorities and Church. Bogumils were considered filthy and lazy and spreaders of numerous deseases. Orthodox church eagerly sparked hatred toward Bogumils among public, spreading lies about them. For instance, when someone's sheep or cow got stolen, Bogumils were first to blame. Prosecution and killings of Bogumils proceeded well into 14th century, all the way until Ottoman Turks came to Balkans. By then they were pretty much eradicated.
The Catars was one of the name given to Bogomils or 'Dear to God'. Bogomils were initiated in year 927, in Bulgaria in the monastery 'St. Paraskeva' by the third son of Bulgarian king Simeon named Veniamin or Boian the Mage. Initially there were 21 highly Elevated Souls who spread this spiritual Christianity to all Europe... They brought new hope to all Europe and have reached 6000 Pure Elevated Priest and Priestess and 4 millions of devotees...
The Perfect Heresy by Stephen O'Shea was my first encounter with the Cathars. It was in the non-fiction section but it had a fiction-sounding title. Turned out to be a very informative book.
Paulo Coelho's saying that "The world is changed by your example, not your opinion" was exemplified with the Cathars. Though the Church characteristically obsessed about their beliefs and denounced them as "heretical", it was the Cathar way of life, not their doctrine that attracted people: living examples of people who sought to sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. The second striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
Didn't know allot of this. While listening my throat tightenedand I got uncharacteristic mad. Added thumbs up to video. Be good to see more independent video on topic
A striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathars. If you are interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
I agree with the Cathars on many things, apparently. I probably would've been burnt at the stake either for being a Cathar or being accused of being a witch. I wouldn't have faired well back then.
A striking feature of Cathars was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
The more religions i study the less i like any of them.Too much greed and want of control over peoples lives does not set well with me at all.Think i will stay with practical wisdom rational and logic.I got away from fantasy and folklore years ago.
If I lived in that time I would definitely join the Cathar. Equal rights for women, eating mostly plant based, saying the Catholic Church is evil..jeah I could be onboard!
Paulo Coelho's saying that "The world is changed by your example, not your opinion" was exemplified with the Cathars. Though the Church characteristically obsessed about their beliefs and denounced them as "heretical", it was the Cathar way of life, not their doctrine that attracted people: living examples of people who sought to sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. The second striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
Good minimal historical summary of the Cathars. Unfortunately, many names of localities are terribly mispronounced, and it would not have taken a major effort on the part of the commentator to correct this issue. For in-depth research on this subject, read the books by Michel Roquebert.
Imagine whole towns being slaughtered today. 20 thousand people! Crazy how many Innocent people have been killed by the church under the idea that they will go to heaven . What is scary is it still exists waiting for the next calamity.
The Colombus Conspiracy By Michael Bradley was my first experience with Catharism. I was raised in Sufi-ism during the 90s in the NOI (Toronto), glad to hear it was vaguely familiar with this philosophy. Pythagoreanism, Manism, Sufism, Catharism, Bolgorianism, Zoroastrianism and such date back even further with the root of Gnosticism which may link all the way back to the Younger Dryas era and before. Good God vs Bad God could go back to Enki and Enlil
dla kontrastu mógłbyś przygotować film o innych heretykach -husytach ,oni poradzili sobie jako tako z krucjatami, polecam też książki z trylogi husyckiej Sapkowskiego
My church in the US can trace its roots from the agreement in Zurich between the Hussites and the Catholic church. That movement helped spark ideas of freedom of speech and equality.
Thank you for your contribution. The Cathars were known as "Good Christians" by their peers and this gives us the essence of what they were about: people who were trying to follow in the footsteps of Jesus and his early followers. Initiated Cathars - parfait(e)s - lived lives of simplicity, without material wealth, teaching and healing in the spirit of the apostles. Though the Church focused on their doctrine (which varied somewhat) it was their life, not their theology, that attracted people to them and alarmed the Church. If anyone is interested I have videos on Cathar women as well as their ultimate purpose and where they went.
@@erin6083 Well any religion is nonsense but when comparing any two religion the one that doesn't seek to kill others for not bending the knee to their imaginary deity is automatically better in my book.
@@grandfathernurgle2840 Well the problem is that religions are made up of people, and as we live in a fallen world, people are sinful, even the best of us. Anything human beings do will be tainted by sin. Just because people are sinful doesn’t make a religion right or wrong. Logic and reason are a huge part of the Catholic faith, for example look into the teachings of saints Augustine and Aquinas for starters. But back to your point- I agree that things should be judged to a large degree by their fruits, as the Bible says.
Paulo Coelho's saying that "The world is changed by your example, not your opinion" was exemplified with the Cathars. Though the Church characteristically obsessed about their beliefs and denounced them as "heretical", it was the Cathar way of life, not their doctrine that attracted people: living examples of people who sought to sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. The second striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
They seem to have been influenced by the Bogomils.Hard to tell if the Cathars were influenced by ancient Gnostic thought as there's a huge gap between them and the Gnostics.Some have detected the influence of Marcion is these ideas but very little of his teachings have survived.
Paulo Coelho's saying that "The world is changed by your example, not your opinion" was exemplified with the Cathars. Though the Church characteristically obsessed about their beliefs and denounced them as "heretical", it was the Cathar way of life, not their doctrine that attracted people: living examples of people who sought to sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. The second striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
2:46 The Church already had substantial influence over the continent through the reign of Charlemagne, who the pope named Emperor. However, the ecclessial reforms that centralized western Christendom was a project already undertaken in 1073-1085 by Pope St. Gregory VII and the influence of Cluny Abbey. I get that Innocent III is the "famous one" because he was pope at the height of papal influence, called a council, oversaw a crusade, and general is seen as some arch-anti-liberal in hindsight, but he wouldn't have accomplished any of that if it weren't for his predecessors. However, it does seem we also confuse the image of Innocent's papacy with the image of later popes like Boniface VIII who issued Unam Sanctum (granted it is arguable that it merely made official already existing theories of the papacy which Innocent used).
Additionally, it is amusing that the Cathars, supposedly known for their radical poverty, had the force of the French military on them once the aristocrats sided with them (aristocrats who had no interest in becoming poor).
Whether they really were Cathars is debatable. They may simply have practiced older methods of faith, and were stubborn in their resistance to conform. No less tragic for all that.
We're in an open relationship? Dammit! My mother was right she said you didn't mean it when you said "verily thine bosom flutters with passions breath liketh a sparrow in a tempest" I knew there weren't enough thou's and -th's in there!
I wonder what they did for light. Beeswax (expensive) and tallow came from animals. Stick a wick in an oily fish??? I don't think they knew about any mineral oils. I guess they just went to bed when it got dark.
Catching up so I doubt you see this but with the sponsor spot where you mention drinking Starbucks, I would of made a joke that you will get more out of the HH subscription instead of just a trip to the outhouse.
The Catholic Church showi g once again how loving and caring they are . The rot and hate ho far back whete most of the so called cloth were worse than those they perceived were a threat.
The piety and life of rejection of carnality reminds me of the fictional “Space Marines” in the hugely popular computer game Warhammer. Except, in the game, the “Space Marines” are the ones hunting down and eliminating the “heretics”
Well, because they were so well liked in their local communities there where always new followers who joined and replentished their numbers, also having support of the nobility and sometimeseven that of the local Catholic clergy who secretly had some sympathy for their doctrine further contributed to creating an ideal atmosphere to attract new converts.
Paulo Coelho's saying that "The world is changed by your example, not your opinion" was exemplified with the Cathars. Though the Church characteristically obsessed about their beliefs and denounced them as "heretical", it was the Cathar way of life, not their doctrine that attracted people: living examples of people who sought to sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. The second striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
I just wish the producers of this show were not so needy that they wouldn't bombard us with more ads. Do they know how many ads we tolerate just to get to the beginning of this documentary?
Get TH-cam premium if ads bother you. The creators don't have a say in the ad frequency, that's TH-cam's domain. These comments are so ungrateful. It takes a lot of time and effort to make these videos.
They did do a lot of bloody sinful things BUT they defended the Faith. There would be no Protestantism without the RC church and maybe no Christianity at all. Those were brutal times all around.
They’d do all that stuff again if they could. Honestly not too much has changed, they believe most of the same crap and instead of murder they just molest kids
These videos are enjoyable enough but this is let down by terrible pronunciation, ignorance of Catholic theology and an idealised image of the Cathars. Thanks though. Always interesting to see this topic covered
The catholic church was never about religion it was always about controle jesus preached love and forgivenes the church has never done either unless u consider forgiveing themselvs for murder rape and whatnot jesus said many will come in my name and decieve the world sounds like the church to me
Several decades ago I remembered my life as a young male prefect who was held by the Catholics underground while they tore off my nails. The good that followed that memory was I no longer started uncontrollably screaming when my manicurist slipped while painting my nails red. This is true.
HistoryHit are buying up all history channels and destroying individual creativeness. Why watch the same stuff from hundreds of smaller channels. Every time i hear the HistoryHit announcement i skip channels.
I first encountered the Cathars in Umberto Ecco’s marvelous book “The Name of the Rose”. They were just one of several groups of people trying to protest the wealth and power of the Roman Catholic Church in Medieval times. These groups posed a serious threat to the RCC because they preached a life devoid of excesses and using the church to call up armies to go and ruthlessly crush the “heresy” that the Cathars, Albigensians, etc. we’re spreading throughout much of Europe at that time.
We’re there Carhars in the movie based on the book?
Read “ The Good Men “ - about real transcripts of cathars
None of what you typed means their beliefs were the right ones. Let's not kid ourselves now.
@@Shinobi33 there's no such thing as "right beliefs". We can't know which beliefs are right or wrong. As long as one's beliefs do not harm someone they should be OK.
@@CrisSelene depends on what you consider harm. So please come on
I'm from the south west of France and I thank you so much for covering this. One of the cathedrals in my city still bears the scars of our resistence against oppression and malice.
Tu es d'Albi ?
Sorry Gnostic shouldn’t have been a disgusting heretic
Catharism came from the Bogomils that migrated from the Balkans in the 11th century. They were present in Northern Italy and most of France...especially in the Languedoc region.
There must have been a line of succession from the first century AD. Has anyone traced it?
Bogomils were the Paulicians, deported from Anatolia to the Balkans because they sided with Muslims against Christians.
@@fantasia55 ... not ''Bogomils'' (Bogumil is a Slavic word meaning ''those who God, the Creator, favors) ''believers'' (Muslim is an Arabic word which just means ''believer'') and Christians (I mean initial Christians who followed the Jesus's teaching)) were on the same side,... while the Vatican or so called ''Catholics'' were waged wars on them,... we can say that Vatican hijacked what once was Christianity,...
Just imagine all the different, odd little sects that we never heard of because the Catholic Church crushed them out.
@@albigensiac3206 Jehovah Witnesses believe that Jesus died for our sins, yet they believe that He didn’t rise again; not a sect of Christianity. It’s a separate religion.
The Roman Catholic Church gifted us Christendom. I doubt you'll bemoan the Egyptian, Persian, Chinese, etc etc, civilisations who crushed aberrant forces that threatened their survival.
@@albigensiac3206 my comment was directed to the OP. Pax.
@@albigensiac3206 Most of the people that died were not Cathars. Simon de Montfort switched from killing Cathars to obtaining land early on in the Crusade. The Crusade was more about changing land ownership (getting certain Counts out because they simply looked the other way instead of persecuting the Cathars). Simon de Montfort wanted land and power and mainly killed Christians.
@@albigensiac3206 Phillip and Louis didn't really get involved until after the death of Simon de Montfort in 1218. Beziers is a good example of numbers. The Crusaders had a list of 222 people they wanted. The City told them to *#^ off. 20,000 died...19,778 were Christians.
Needless to say, the Crusade just changed who owned the land. Phillip and Louis ended up as the winners. The "Prefects" were eventually killed or just died off. The Inquisition eventually worked through conversion.
I live in Cather country in Roussillions. My village was burned to the ground 3 times, the last time, they torched the mayor, the cathedral and population hiding within it. The church was always rotten.
Some walked into the flame voluntarily that’s intense
As an Eastern Orthodox I’m fascinated by this group and their history in relation to the RCC, what happened to them is horrible and unChrist-Like.
Their concept of evil is wild to me and I wonder how they got to that conclusion. I would have enjoyed having a conversation with one about it.
We explain the existence of evil through free will and ego. God loves us enough to give us choice in how we live, even if it means letting us harm ourselves or others. The Prodigal Son is a perfect depiction of this, the father honors the sons choice and gives him the inheritance even though he knows it will lead to not only the sons suffering but also the suffering of their whole family due to the loss of resource. But when the son comes crawling back in humility, the father sees him first and meets the him where he is and accepts him. Cause God doesn’t reject you, there is no place that is absent of God (who is love), instead it’s you yourself who refuse him. He allows us to make the choice to become united with him or not. We have our egos, our fallen/selfish nature, which we are meant to correct in the process of Theosis, but that process requires our consent. Obedience is an act of love, it’s a choice, if you perform obedience without that loving free will, then it is called duty, and God doesn’t want you to be duty bound to him, he wants you to live in a loving unity with his Energies
Im french, it does actually exist a few remaining treaty (4 in total if im not wrong) written by Cathars, i don't know if they are avaible in english. They are answering all of your points. For instance they does not belive in free will. For them if men are evil it is because they have been built in such a way, and placed in such condition that they cannot not be evil, it is determined. Same go for angels, if angels are good it is because they have been made in such condition that they can only be good. The true freedom for them is to be free from the material world determinism that does not exist in the spiritual world. Also they contradict the fact that even if the free will exist the evil only come from it because most of the disease and suffering are not coming from the direct hands of men. A lion can slowly eat alive a gazelle and that have nothing to do with a hypothetical human free will.
Beautiful explanation, thank you.
Look up Bogomilism. One theory states that the practictioners of Bogomilism talked with crusaders passing by. They would later perhaps have brought the ideas to France. Moreover, the person who started it was actually burnt at the stake by Alexius Comnenus. Lastly, these ideas might have been influenced by the Paulicians who were resettled in Bulgaria.
Interesting you say all this about it being unChristlike what happened to them and how they were treated when among Eastern Orthodox Christians the treatment of Jews historically was and persists to be abysmal.
I don't think that obedience is a choice, however, it is not an act of love… faith, trust & respect is, as must as it is a free choice. Obedience is another word for complying to arbitrary rule or either subservient order(s); as least to me, it sort of a kin of slavery or tyranny.
There has been a revival of the Cathars. I went to a meeting of modern day Cathars. They claim to eat fish as well plant foods. The men wore blue frocks with maritime ish embroidery on the yoke "boats and waves etc" The ladies wore modest clothing inc head scarfs. I was so excited that this niche group had an open meeting in Covent. Garden uk. Id love to read The Book Love but it remains illusive.Wild to think of what became of those original Very Godly Cathars people . Thank you this great video as info on this group is pretty scarce ❤
I'm a Gnostic and I discuss Gnosticism and ancient Christianity. I also upload all the scriptures banned from the bible
I must say, the music is on point in this one!
To be fair, the Cathars were pretty much spot on with their assesment of prevalent evil.
They were correct that evil exists and wrong about absolutely everything else. They deserved to be wiped out to stop them spreading their errors.
@@erin6083 Wrong about what exactly?
Not really. They didn't mention free will. That's the reason evil exists. God gave us free will to do as we please. Which is what Satanists preach. To do as you please whenever you want. Which pushes man further away from God
@@erin6083 You're an ignorant disgusting SOB!!!🤦♀🙄🤷♀
@@erin6083 what's your opinion about other religions like Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism?
The Albigensian Crusade seems to have become a blindspot in Medieval European history. As somebody who took GCSE History, AS and A-level history and somebody who would actively read about European Medieval history in my spare time; when I went to university aged 19; I was little prepared for what I was about to learn.
So in other words, the Cathars were spot-on in their criticism of the medieval Catholic church.
Not having children to spare them from suffering. The Cathars had a point there. Women were also allowed to teach and preach. Another point.
@Hamter Who am I to say also. Thank-you for your comment and kindness in delivering it. We can debate this a long time and still not have answer. In the meantime we can try to reduce suffering in the world.
Paulo Coelho's saying that "The world is changed by your example, not your opinion" was exemplified with the Cathars. Though the Church characteristically obsessed about their beliefs and denounced them as "heretical", it was the Cathar way of life, not their doctrine that attracted people: living examples of people who sought to sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. The second striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
Youd rather be dead than poor… ok
You are one of my favorite medieval channels to go to
And they'd be flourishing today if it weren't for the Mandalorians!
I find these people absolutely fascinating.
Paulo Coelho's saying that "The world is changed by your example, not your opinion" was exemplified with the Cathars. Though the Church characteristically obsessed about their beliefs and denounced them as "heretical", it was the Cathar way of life, not their doctrine that attracted people: living examples of people who sought to sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. The second striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
Cathars could both marry and have babies - only the "Perfects", their leaders, were celibate.
Sounds similar to Catholic Priests, Monks and Nuns.
Where did you learn that lay Cathars had children etc? Did they consider having children a sin? If so, the Cathars sound a teeny bit like an extinction/death cult.
@@Tom-sd9jb They could marry (following their own rituals) and have children and it was not considered a sin, as I remember, it would not bar them from becoming Perfects themselves later on. Indeed, Cathars were advised NOT to aspire to Perfect-hood in their youth and many Cathars only became Perfects in their old age.
But you could call them a death cult, yes. They essentially believed that this world was created by Lucifer.
I read about them in Jonathan Sumption's excellent book on the Albigensian Crusade.
@@ErikBramsen Thanks!
Iron Maiden's song Montsegur describes them pretty well. The Catholic church too.
Was going to say the same 😅
I just listened to it. For anyone else, there is a version that has the lyrics. I have to say ,though the music makes my ears bleed. (perhaps that's their point?) The songwriter is VERY well educated. I liked the subtle reference to the fate of the Templars - although they did not participate in the Albigensian Crusade.
"Thou shalt not kill" ......
There were many religious groups with basically same beliefs as Cathars. In Eastern Europe these groups were prosecuted and seen as enemy of the Church and the state. Bogumils were basically the same as Cathars with their beliefs and religion practices. Difference between them is that Cathars were allowed to congregate and dwell , while Bogumils were mainly seen as beggars, and were stripped of most rights. They could not own any land (not that they wanted it) on which they could build homes. There are two main reasons why these people were considered dangerous . They wouldn't recognize any authority nor pay any taxes to any institution. They also wouldn't bear any arms. Now, this would not be so dangerous if only poor people were of these beliefs. Main fear was that land owners along with his peasants would adopt these beliefs and practices. Threat of these people refusing to bear arms, send their people to war, or not to pay any taxes was huge to ruling authorities and Church. Bogumils were considered filthy and lazy and spreaders of numerous deseases. Orthodox church eagerly sparked hatred toward Bogumils among public, spreading lies about them. For instance, when someone's sheep or cow got stolen, Bogumils were first to blame.
Prosecution and killings of Bogumils proceeded well into 14th century, all the way until Ottoman Turks came to Balkans. By then they were pretty much eradicated.
A video on the Adamites would be very much appreciated!
Skip to 2:30 to avoid the absurdly long ad.
Yes I agree it was absurdly long and disgusting and disappointing and dumb and stupid and weird selling crap nobody wants POS scum so upsetting
The Catars was one of the name given to Bogomils or 'Dear to God'. Bogomils were initiated in year 927, in Bulgaria in the monastery 'St. Paraskeva' by the third son of Bulgarian king Simeon named Veniamin or Boian the Mage. Initially there were 21 highly Elevated Souls who spread this spiritual Christianity to all Europe... They brought new hope to all Europe and have reached 6000 Pure Elevated Priest and Priestess and 4 millions of devotees...
The Perfect Heresy by Stephen O'Shea was my first encounter with the Cathars. It was in the non-fiction section but it had a fiction-sounding title. Turned out to be a very informative book.
In Greek language καθαρός (katharos) means clean or pure
Hence the word catharsis.
Thanks, this was sad.The Cathars were very forward thinking,. They're persecution was excessive and wrong 🤔
Paulo Coelho's saying that "The world is changed by your example, not your opinion" was exemplified with the Cathars. Though the Church characteristically obsessed about their beliefs and denounced them as "heretical", it was the Cathar way of life, not their doctrine that attracted people: living examples of people who sought to sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. The second striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
Didn't know allot of this. While listening my throat tightenedand I got uncharacteristic mad. Added thumbs up to video. Be good to see more independent video on topic
A striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathars. If you are interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
I agree with the Cathars on many things, apparently. I probably would've been burnt at the stake either for being a Cathar or being accused of being a witch. I wouldn't have faired well back then.
A striking feature of Cathars was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
I never knew that I was. Cathare at heart - perhaps I should keep it to myself, mind you.
The more religions i study the less i like any of them.Too much greed and want of control over peoples lives does not set well with me at all.Think i will stay with practical wisdom rational and logic.I got away from fantasy and folklore years ago.
Theological insanity will destroy humanity
Just to confuse you even more, the C at the end of Languedoc is actually pronounced 🤷🏻♀️
And Occitane. Ock it an.
@@janetgraham-russell4476 that's kinda obvious. It ends in an e which means the n will be pronounced
ock-SEE-tan-ee,
kar-cass-ON,
see-MON duh-mon-FOR
too-LOOZ,
ar-NOH
mont-seh-GUR
Coming from the eastern Christian world, the spiral/transformation of western Christianity post 1054 is equal parts tragic and fascinating
Man’s rocking the Nike eyebrows drip.
✔️ ✔️
👁 👁
If I lived in that time I would definitely join the Cathar. Equal rights for women, eating mostly plant based, saying the Catholic Church is evil..jeah I could be onboard!
Such a fun narrator!
Very interesting... never heard of these folks... sound like smart people
Paulo Coelho's saying that "The world is changed by your example, not your opinion" was exemplified with the Cathars. Though the Church characteristically obsessed about their beliefs and denounced them as "heretical", it was the Cathar way of life, not their doctrine that attracted people: living examples of people who sought to sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. The second striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
I love history hit!
Never heard this before. Terribly sad to loose so many people
Catholics will do that
Can you detail the thing about fish appearing spontaneously from inanimate matter?
St. Benedict, from whom the Benedictine Order arose, first got his hands bloody in this conflict.
Benedict lived many centuries earlier than the Cathars.
Just envisioning ZOROASTRIANISM & Gnosticism from turn of millennium BC into AD
Good minimal historical summary of the Cathars. Unfortunately, many names of localities are terribly mispronounced, and it would not have taken a major effort on the part of the commentator to correct this issue. For in-depth research on this subject, read the books by Michel Roquebert.
Imagine whole towns being slaughtered today. 20 thousand people! Crazy how many Innocent people have been killed by the church under the idea that they will go to heaven . What is scary is it still exists waiting for the next calamity.
The Colombus Conspiracy By Michael Bradley was my first experience with Catharism. I was raised in Sufi-ism during the 90s in the NOI (Toronto), glad to hear it was vaguely familiar with this philosophy. Pythagoreanism, Manism, Sufism, Catharism, Bolgorianism, Zoroastrianism and such date back even further with the root of Gnosticism which may link all the way back to the Younger Dryas era and before. Good God vs Bad God could go back to Enki and Enlil
dla kontrastu mógłbyś przygotować film o innych heretykach -husytach ,oni poradzili sobie jako tako z krucjatami, polecam też książki z trylogi husyckiej Sapkowskiego
My church in the US can trace its roots from the agreement in Zurich between the Hussites and the Catholic church. That movement helped spark ideas of freedom of speech and equality.
That would be interesting. I'd watch it. 👍
Thank you for your contribution. The Cathars were known as "Good Christians" by their peers and this gives us the essence of what they were about: people who were trying to follow in the footsteps of Jesus and his early followers. Initiated Cathars - parfait(e)s - lived lives of simplicity, without material wealth, teaching and healing in the spirit of the apostles. Though the Church focused on their doctrine (which varied somewhat) it was their life, not their theology, that attracted people to them and alarmed the Church. If anyone is interested I have videos on Cathar women as well as their ultimate purpose and where they went.
Gotta' pay better attention. I thought it said, "Who were the Catheters..."
close enough
I read "Who were the cat-ears?" and I was immediately disappointed that this video wasn't about some kind of furry medieval occupation.
Fair concerns. Vegetarians also worry me.
Nothing like peaceful kind people to terrify the powerful
Occitane. Last "e" silent in French, just like in English. 3 syllables.
great vids but an awful lot of ad breaks
The c in Languedoc isn't silent, neither is the se in Toulouse. However the t in Montfort is :)
Never heard of this group. I’m not Christian but if I were alive back then, I might have joined them!
So go join the Mormons if you’re admitting you’d fall for any false nonsense religion.
@@erin6083 Well any religion is nonsense but when comparing any two religion the one that doesn't seek to kill others for not bending the knee to their imaginary deity is automatically better in my book.
@@grandfathernurgle2840 Well the problem is that religions are made up of people, and as we live in a fallen world, people are sinful, even the best of us. Anything human beings do will be tainted by sin. Just because people are sinful doesn’t make a religion right or wrong. Logic and reason are a huge part of the Catholic faith, for example look into the teachings of saints Augustine and Aquinas for starters. But back to your point- I agree that things should be judged to a large degree by their fruits, as the Bible says.
Paulo Coelho's saying that "The world is changed by your example, not your opinion" was exemplified with the Cathars. Though the Church characteristically obsessed about their beliefs and denounced them as "heretical", it was the Cathar way of life, not their doctrine that attracted people: living examples of people who sought to sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. The second striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
They seem to have been influenced by the Bogomils.Hard to tell if the Cathars were influenced by ancient Gnostic thought as there's a huge gap between them and the Gnostics.Some have detected the influence of Marcion is these ideas but very little of his teachings have survived.
The catholic church really have been consistently awful throughout history
where all these people from? what's the main influence? some eastern teachings?
Excellent summary - let's call your video a videopedia (after "encyclopedia").
That doesn’t make any sense
Sounds peaceful and pure
Paulo Coelho's saying that "The world is changed by your example, not your opinion" was exemplified with the Cathars. Though the Church characteristically obsessed about their beliefs and denounced them as "heretical", it was the Cathar way of life, not their doctrine that attracted people: living examples of people who sought to sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. The second striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
It's "legate", like leg-it -- with a hard g, not a soft one.
2:46 The Church already had substantial influence over the continent through the reign of Charlemagne, who the pope named Emperor. However, the ecclessial reforms that centralized western Christendom was a project already undertaken in 1073-1085 by Pope St. Gregory VII and the influence of Cluny Abbey.
I get that Innocent III is the "famous one" because he was pope at the height of papal influence, called a council, oversaw a crusade, and general is seen as some arch-anti-liberal in hindsight, but he wouldn't have accomplished any of that if it weren't for his predecessors. However, it does seem we also confuse the image of Innocent's papacy with the image of later popes like Boniface VIII who issued Unam Sanctum (granted it is arguable that it merely made official already existing theories of the papacy which Innocent used).
Additionally, it is amusing that the Cathars, supposedly known for their radical poverty, had the force of the French military on them once the aristocrats sided with them (aristocrats who had no interest in becoming poor).
Whether they really were Cathars is debatable. They may simply have practiced older methods of faith, and were stubborn in their resistance to conform. No less tragic for all that.
We're in an open relationship? Dammit! My mother was right she said you didn't mean it when you said "verily thine bosom flutters with passions breath liketh a sparrow in a tempest"
I knew there weren't enough thou's and -th's in there!
the problem with the catharrs theology is god looked at his creation and it was good.
Spit that game mike
Wow!
Still don’t get how murdering in the name of God makes sense. Seems a little counterintuitive to me, but hey…humans like to pick and choose.
Your explanation of their beliefs was the closest I’ve ever felt to understanding Christianity at all.
It is not true. The basis of Catharism-Bogomilism is love. Love for yourself, love for all people and love for God.
They had to care about a following, or they wouldn't have been preaching their heresies and growing in number.
I wonder what they did for light. Beeswax (expensive) and tallow came from animals. Stick a wick in an oily fish??? I don't think they knew about any mineral oils. I guess they just went to bed when it got dark.
It comes from bees, not warmed animals. They also have honey, bread, etc
Bees ARE animals. They aren't Vegetable or Mineral.
Top work. Thank you. 😊😊😊
Where are good sources of information about the cathars
If they didn't marry or have children, how did they not die out almost immediately??
Anyone know the name of the painting at 3:45 on the right side?
That’s The Garden of Earthly Delights (Hell panel) by Hieronymus Bosch
Wow. Before this, all I knew about the Cathar is that their home was invaded by the Mandalorians, sacked, and eventually avenged by Revan.
The cathars were actually very violent. Look up someone named Peter of Verona. He was murdered by the Cathars.
I mean they fought against their crusaders
Catching up so I doubt you see this but with the sponsor spot where you mention drinking Starbucks, I would of made a joke that you will get more out of the HH subscription instead of just a trip to the outhouse.
The Catholic Church showi g once again how loving and caring they are . The rot and hate ho far back whete most of the so called cloth were worse than those they perceived were a threat.
👍👏
The piety and life of rejection of carnality reminds me of the fictional “Space Marines” in the hugely popular computer game Warhammer. Except, in the game, the “Space Marines” are the ones hunting down and eliminating the “heretics”
the persuit of senility for the purpose of not changing
I am a bit confused. If the Catharists were celibate, how did they survive?
Well, because they were so well liked in their local communities there where always new followers who joined and replentished their numbers, also having support of the nobility and sometimeseven that of the local Catholic clergy who secretly had some sympathy for their doctrine further contributed to creating an ideal atmosphere to attract new converts.
Paulo Coelho's saying that "The world is changed by your example, not your opinion" was exemplified with the Cathars. Though the Church characteristically obsessed about their beliefs and denounced them as "heretical", it was the Cathar way of life, not their doctrine that attracted people: living examples of people who sought to sincerely follow the teachings of Jesus. The second striking feature was that way that women, whose spirit was so stifled by the Church, were given their spiritual voice in the Cathar priesthood. If anyone is interested in exploring this further, we have produced a video on CATHAR WOMEN: th-cam.com/video/i5qnkGpJm6A/w-d-xo.html
The blacksmiths forged not blacksmithed.
Pope "Innocent"
I just wish the producers of this show were not so needy that they wouldn't bombard us with more ads. Do they know how many ads we tolerate just to get to the beginning of this documentary?
Get TH-cam premium if ads bother you. The creators don't have a say in the ad frequency, that's TH-cam's domain. These comments are so ungrateful. It takes a lot of time and effort to make these videos.
What about the Jewish influence in promoting and spreading the Cathari anti Catholic doctrine?
Also that’s not how you pronounce Languedoc.
This can't be real!!!!!!!
I wonder what modern Catholics think about what their religion has done throughout history? Thank God I'm Protestant !!
They did do a lot of bloody sinful things BUT they defended the Faith. There would be no Protestantism without the RC church and maybe no Christianity at all.
Those were brutal times all around.
Well someone had to stop those heretics
They’d do all that stuff again if they could. Honestly not too much has changed, they believe most of the same crap and instead of murder they just molest kids
@@chino3796 Catholicism isn’t Christianity, it’s heresy
Like the majority of slave owning confederates?
I just don't get how you do all that in the name of God or a religion when it wants you to be a good person
The Vatican and the Catholic church have much to answer for.
It's all nice and utopic but we quite know how many if not all peaceful things can degenerate with the "right" people involved as with Catholicism.
These videos are enjoyable enough but this is let down by terrible pronunciation, ignorance of Catholic theology and an idealised image of the Cathars. Thanks though. Always interesting to see this topic covered
They were kind and nice... so Pope 'innocent' was like murder 'em!
The catholic church was never about religion it was always about controle jesus preached love and forgivenes the church has never done either unless u consider forgiveing themselvs for murder rape and whatnot jesus said many will come in my name and decieve the world sounds like the church to me
Please!
Your pronunciation
Several decades ago I remembered my life as a young male prefect who was held by the Catholics underground while they tore off my nails. The good that followed that memory was I no longer started uncontrollably screaming when my manicurist slipped while painting my nails red. This is true.
Have you read The Cathars and Reincarnation?
@@johnkeane1419 No. But I shall now seek it. Thank you.
@@mariegreen2881 Arthur Guirdham. Read it!
HistoryHit are buying up all history channels and destroying individual creativeness. Why watch the same stuff from hundreds of smaller channels. Every time i hear the HistoryHit announcement i skip channels.