Love the series. I truly have faith in the vision of the framework 16. Keeping my batch 10 preorder. Do a video about the Linux experience please. (Workflow ect.)
i was batch 3 and recently got my laptop, i installed arch (obligatory arch btw) and it works like a charm. basically everything works out of the box, including the card and the fingerprint reader. the one thing ive had trouble with is variable refresh rate, but theres a fix for that on the way. overall its a really good laptop, and id say one of the best for linux support
@@bradhaines3142 Unfortunately, many Linux-first options are even WORSE in those regards because they're often using Clevo or Tongfang chassis, which are also behind Windows-first laptops and even Framework in many other ways.
According to the Framework discord server, the email with the RMA request should have said to ignore the batch number that was included. I'm not sure why it's included in the email in the first place, but your RMA has higher priority than that.
The email wasn’t very clear, the message from customer service seemed to be telling me disregard the part of the email that said I would be charged for the replacement laptop. I’ll address it in my next video.
I've been enjoying my Batch 3 machine. Haven't installed the GPU-less module yet but wondering if i should to see if i have a similar issue. Thanks for the vid!
Just did. Works fine and only got to 80 degrees in a 10 minute Cinebench R23 stress test. Swap was pretty easy, but it takes enough time that I don't see people doing it on the fly. I think most will pick their favorite configuration and go with that. @@gwenmorse8059
Nice video! Just FYI I believe CS2 is capped at 200 fps by default. You can remove the cap with "fps_max 0" in the console (which you can enable in advanced settings)
Finally, yes! I hope that framework open-sources the GPU module as well, mqybe then we will be able to hack another gpu to the laptop ourselves if the community grows enough
I'm definitely looking forward to the repaired version. I definitely like the vision of framework, and look at it as a long term replacement for my gaming laptop. It is from an era that still retains user serviceable parts (2018) which i have updated to last into my now 6th year of this laptop. It is showing its age though with its i-7-7700 and Nvidia 1070 starting to fall behind on minimum or recommended specs.
I'm in the same camp! I'm still using my almost 7.5 year old laptop (from end of 2016) with i7 6700HQ and GTX 1060. It helps that I'm not into that much of the new AAA games (except BG3, which works very well on 1080p). But on the work side, when I have to compile stuff (both for work and most of the programs I use, since I'm on Gentoo) while it's not terrible, I do know that a modern 8 core CPU would be so much better. Thing is, I'm kinda set to get an Intel CPU, so Framework 16 isn't an option yet. And I'd like an AMD or Intel GPU too, but with at least 12 GB VRAM. Also, since I plan on using this for at least 7 more years (preferably 10), I want it to be able to support 128 GB of RAM, preferably at 6000 MT/s. Unfortunately such a laptop simply doesn't exist. Something like MSI Titan might be close, except for the GPU. Also, while I'm perfectly ok with a 17-18" laptop (the current one is 17.3" and weight over 4Kg which I know for many is a deal breaker, but it's perfectly ok for me, I don't mind carring it around), I actually do want it at the same time to be decently power efficient, both CPU and GPU. So I don't want the top of the line for them. On the power efficiency side, the most neat thing about Framework 16 is the ability to simply remove the GPU when you don't need it. When the battery module will appear, allowing you go to over 100 Wh, it will be the best laptop for travelling!
I'm curious why you would prefer Intel when AMD is more efficient and has better internal graphics if you remove the card. I can only guess you don't want to figure out how to Gentoo for AMD. I will say removing the graphics expansion seems like more work than it's worth. Or at least finding the screwdriver is for me
@@FrankPhartzzz Oh, it's not about figuring out AMD on Gentoo. CPU-wise I'm not even sure if it's something different. Especially since on mobile you don't have 2 types of cores on AMD, it might even be easier. It's simply more like "support the underdog". I know, sounds weird to call Intel the underdog, but they're certainly still in catch-up mode, so to speak. Intel also usually has better RAM support, though in the last generation it's not so much. Also, with something like Meteor Lake, I'm curious if I can make it very very power efficient. I haven't dwelved too much into that territory, since on this old laptop, it's a desktop replacement, even when new, the battery was still more like a large UPS rather than something you can rely more than 1 hour on. So, with MTL, you have those 2 LP E-cores. With Gentoo, I can control quite easily what I have installed and what's on. It should give decent control in order to achieve actual very good battery life. I do feel like this area hasn't been properly explored. Still, no Framework with MTL, I would've gotten a Framework 13 one, even though I prefer 16+ laptops. Buut, still on why Intel vs AMD, I'm actually quite excited about Lunar Lake. Even though I hate the idea of have soldered memory, Lunar Lake will be like those ARM chips (including the M ones from Apple) that not only does have soldered RAM, but it has it on the CPU chip. And it's tuned for low power. With this finally Intel+AMD will have something comparable to what Apple (and ARM) has, and can show that ARM by itself it's not THAT MUCH more power efficient. With Lunar Lake, I expect that everybody will be able to work 8+ hours on battery on it. And have on-battery duration comparable with Apple M chips. I mean, I think with Lunar Lake, we'll have a new era of 13" ultra portable laptops that will truly last an entire day of work.
@Winnetou17 Lunar Lake's on package RAM won't be repeated; Intel has confirmed that. I can almost guarantee that Framework will never offer it because of the soldered nature of it as well as its higher than Arrow Lake and Zen 5 price. So if you want something power efficient and with a good amount of RAM (above 32 GB), either it doesn't exist or you'll have to pay around $3000 for a Asus ProArt P16, and that has a 60 hz screen.
I had some issues with my Framework Laptop 13 I got last year. It shipped missing one of the expansion card slot buttons and a slight "underbite" with the bottom case. I had to take A LOT of pictures and a similar back and forth with Framework. They DID EVENTUALLY MAKE THINGS RIGHT and I never got the impression that they didn't want to help me, they just wanted a lot of info before sending replacement parts. At the end of the day, I really like my machine but I would caution less tech-inclined folx to hold a bit more of a patient and forgiving mindset compared to a long-established manufacturer like Apple.
Thanks for recording something playing over the speaking while the fans were going. As fast as bang for your buck, if you're looking for an eGPU the Blade 18 is the only competitor and much more expensive.
Nice! Shame that you need to get a replacement unit, though based on how long the batch 4 delay seems to have been I hope they may have fixed some QC issues. Do you happen to be able to test any VR gaming performance?
It's a work machine. That just happens to have a few of my favorite games installed. They're only charging between $4-500 for the GPU which seems pretty competitive with anything from Nvidia. It's definitely more than enough for my gaming needs for quite a while, but I'll still be upgrading it for work when better GPUs are released. My one complaint is the price, but I also put my preorder in at the end of the GPU shortage so it wasn't that much difference, although I bought memory and SSD elsewhere
Man, this looks like it took a lot of work to make. Much appreciated. Might I suggest one thing for Linux gaming? Don't use Ubuntu for gaming. There is a reason why valve didn't use it. It normally comes with an older kernel, and you'd miss out on improvements. I'd venture for Fedora or anything Arch based like Endeavour OS or Garuda Linux. Garuda dragonized might be your best bet since it comes packed with all the gaming requirements.
@@asunavk69 I posted a link to their site where it shows that officially, they support Ubuntu and Fedora. Unofficially, they support a ton others. TH-cam removed it of course. Fedora (or nobara, a gaming distro based on Fedora) would be a much better choice since it always has the latest kernel.
The first gen 13 did sell for a very low price recently (as factory b-stock). So maybe the 16 could do the same in a few years time but then hopefully have improved dedicated GPU modules as well (as that would be the primary upgrade over the CPU/motherboard). That or 2nd market would be the best options to get it for better price (thereby still not an option right now).
I never had good experience with Ubuntu with multiple laptops and desktops. After Mint and some other Ubuntu based distros I tried Manjaro and have been using it for almost 4 years now. I even share my home folder with nvidia based laptop and my full amd system desktop and it works as it should. Manjaro ,and probably arch, have the magic sauce Ubuntu lacks so much for stability and gaming.
I guess Starfield already had FSR upscaling on. Frame generation doesnt improve latency like typical increases in frame rate does but rather only smoothing the movements with the generated frames. So I would only suggest turning it on if the latency is good enough and you enjoy the smoothness it brings.
I've been watching you for a couple of weeks and i have one question... Why do you have this few Subscribers? I enjoy your videos as much as probably no ones in this scene. I guess it's probably because i don't like these overedited videos while most do but still. I hope to see even more funky Framewkork stuff from you in the future I have just one thing: Why don't you test a racing game next time 😉
Thanks for the review. It's sad to see your unit has many issues. What can I do to thoroughly tested mine to make sure it has no issues? Your issue should have been caught by QC. LTT did a video on their factory, but it seems like QC is failing to do their job. Upon checking the framework community forums, people have had backwards spacers. Can you do a video explaining what we can do to test our units please?
If i wasnt already the proud owner of a beast desktop i would have upgraded from my 13 to the 16. But as it is It think ill just use steam link and moonlight/sunshine for gaming on the go (for now at least) RE mangohud and Wayland issues. I think this is the OEM kernel and gnome being picky. Ill have to reach out to one of my 16 owning friends to let me try on fedora KDE (probably gonna wait for fedora 40 tho) Further edit. I think you need to run proton experimental for helldivers at the moment. I'm playing it on fedora. Either that or you fell for the Snap version of steam like some others have.
Curious, at 19:55 you mention battery drain on AC, as well as a dip in performance as battery percent drops. Are you saying that while plugged into AC power, as the battery percent dropped, so did performance, even while on AC power?
Yes, at 20% battery while plugged in the performance dropped. Not a lot but it was noticeable. I was playing cyberpunk 2077 and avg FPS went from the low 70’s to the high 50’s. Battery drain also stopped at that point so I assume it wasn’t supplementing from the battery anymore. I’ll be doing more testing when I get the replacement laptop.
@@ElevatedSystems Thank you so much for the clarification. Seems like it would only be a real issue if you are running a game that is heavy on CPU and GPU load at the same time.. for an extended amount of time.
It would be interesting, how the FW 16 would perform with Core Ultra and A770M combo. Also I don´t understand AMD why the big gap between the 7700S/7600M XT and 7900M? Something like 7700M XT or 7800M with the core count between the 7600 and 7900 and around 115-120W which the FW16 cooling solution should be able to handle. Love the FW16, not cheap but hey... Hope it will get more CPU/GPU options in the future. Then I´m sold.
They are replacing the entire laptop and all the modules, unfortunately that replacement unit is in batch 18 so I probably won’t see it for a long time.
As a Framework 13 owner, I find the fit and finish issues on the 16 a little surprising. My AMD framework 13 is very well put together and feels rather premium. Dare I say almost macbook quality.
The 16 inch model has been far better than other Linux-first laptops. Those other laptops feel like the trimmings of better laptops, which is to say, really bad.
Sooo, that means that we'll see the next episode in ... weeks ? Months ? I hope with how well the unit fares in general, what the changes are, what issues it still has. It's a bit sad that Framework 16 overall seems pretty underwhelming. Part of it because AMD GPU, part of it because Linux issues (for those who want to run it) and part of it because it's new and still has quirks to solve and things to smooth. Only one is in their control, but added up, it's a bit rough. I hope they manage to fix the issues and come with improvements as they did with Framework 13, the world would be better with this.
It just means I can only test the system with the dGPU installed which my next two episodes will need anyway. 3D design & Game Dev. So I should get them out each week until I receive the replacement. At which time I’ll de a detailed comparison of the old and new.
Is it possible to try benchmarking the FW 16 by disconnecting the battery via the BIOS? Because if intense gaming sessions use the battery while plugged in, I'm curious to know if that would bottle neck the laptop
Ubuntu LTS is probably one of the worst distros to game on. I would recommend sticking with Pop OS if you want an Ubuntu like experience. Pop OS provides the latest kernel and mesa. Which is probably your problem. Manufacturers listing and "supporting" Ubuntu is basically useless for a general user. It is more of a corporate certification if the laptop would be used for a company. I could not imagine why a general linux user buying this laptop would ever put Ubuntu on it. They are more likely going to be using Pop, Arch, Fedora, or Nobara. That is if they plan on gaming.
You mentioned in your 7840u video that the Framework gets hot and the 1 fan can get loud, would it be wise to apply liquid metal to the APU since the heatsink is copper?
i'm trying to run some games on the APU under linux mint and performance is absolutely abysmal. some games won't launch at all, other games run at 1fps. support is nonexistent, of course; linux is perfect and there is no reason to believe the hardware isn't properly configured...
@@ElevatedSystems just tried bg3 and re2 in steam. ubuntu froze during the os install, cinnamint froze during the games... now i'm trying mint edge but the wifi is trickling in.
@@sheeplord4976 AMD is plug and play on Linux and is absolutely fantastic, heard of the Steam Deck?. You sound like you're talking about Linux from 10 years ago.
ATI's Linux support before AMD bought them was legitimately horrible. Basically even worse than Nvidia was. I think Nvidia is refusing to work with Framework unfortunately.
Unfornatly with only ubuntu support and as is the configuration, this seems like a big achiles heel for linux gaming, hopefully someone steps in and adds support specially for arch linux as its best for gaming. But for now i'd even come as far to say my below 1k$ legion 5 with nvidia still is a better experience than this even on linux, but there is hope.
If I remember correctly they also support Fedora. Which is not Ubuntu, but still, it's more cutting edge. On the Arch side (maybe Gentoo side as well) I think it should be very doable to make it your own. Haven't searched, but I assume that whatever firmware, kernel configuration, kernel patches etc they are using should be available, so you can replicate them on an Arch install. Heck, probably the community will do something like that soon. Now, the Framework 16 is kinda new, so I expect rough edges, so to speak, for the remainder of the year. So if you don't need it now, wait for it to improve. Regarding your Legion 5, depending on the exact NVidia GPU, it might be overall better than this forever. I mean, a RTX 3080 mobile GPU surely does better than a RX 7700 GPU. Though at below $1k, you problably don't have that. So if 3070 or lower, I expect that eventually this Framework will be better.
@@Winnetou17 yes thats what i mean, this laptop if it gets the loves it needs from linux side than it should be amazing, bear in mind i am aware my laptop is a windows focused device, but for the price and due to lenovo being a solid manufacturer does add up abit. Regarding gpu, mine is a 3060, but regarding linux nvidia is not there yet, that said idk much about amd mobile grafics too, their drivers are pretty good tho, and with radv, being the bang for your buck when beimg about linux, but as is if its just ubuntu then its a huge waste of performance if its were framework efforts goes on to(but yeah exicited to see from community, etc), fedora well idk,imo i prefer over ubuntu too but arch imo is the king for overall desktop usage, best packaging and tinkering. That said would require further testing to see how well it goes.
Bro was diplomatic about it but that is dog $#!t performance for a $2500 laptop. All that money for a low end gaming laptop and they can’t at least get it built right? Pathetic!
Truth to be told if this was coming from Apple or HP/ASUS/MSI/Lenovo, the reviewers would've dunked on. Especially if it wouldn't be so open and repairable. On Framework people (including me) are more forgiving, because they're still a pretty small team and this is still at the beginning of the road. But other than their stated mission, they're shown that they're really on it with Framework 13, so if it continues the same on Framework 16, then it will turn to be quite nice. This first model, even with all the fixes and improvements, will always be on the expensive side on price/performance rating. But the next years, I think this will get better and into the competitive territorry.
I'm keeping my Batch 11 for now but Framework, if you're reading, this is unacceptable. The replacement device should be straight from Batch 5. This is the first and last pre order I do from you. If there will be a next Framework laptop for me after the 16, I will sure as hell wait for the pre order phase to be over. Absolutely not acceptable your patrons and early adopters get this garbage treatment that is way worse than what you would get from even Lenovo.
7:40 was hilarious. Thanks for your service brother. Hope your OK. God bless.
Love the series. I truly have faith in the vision of the framework 16. Keeping my batch 10 preorder. Do a video about the Linux experience please. (Workflow ect.)
i was batch 3 and recently got my laptop, i installed arch (obligatory arch btw) and it works like a charm. basically everything works out of the box, including the card and the fingerprint reader. the one thing ive had trouble with is variable refresh rate, but theres a fix for that on the way. overall its a really good laptop, and id say one of the best for linux support
That really does sound convincing, thanks @@styx1024
Did the gpu work without a problem @@styx1024? And how is the build quality?
@@styx1024i really wanna install gentoo on it i heard you can use gentoo fine
I cant wait fot a 7945hx main board and a 7900m drop in gpu
that's nice finally finding a youtube channel that tests with linux instead of just Windows! Got a sub from me!
Thanks for including us Linux users!
Easily the best channel for Framework, and even to some extent Linux content :D
I really enjoyed this video. Framework + Linux at once? Irresistable.
Nice!! Keeping my batch 17! Can’t Wait!
Tray waiting faster
@@arkvsi8142 😂😂😂
there is a batch 17?! mine is batch 5, its pretty good, but fit and finish was underwhelming
@@bradhaines3142 Unfortunately, many Linux-first options are even WORSE in those regards because they're often using Clevo or Tongfang chassis, which are also behind Windows-first laptops and even Framework in many other ways.
I was waiting for this review
I was not expecting to see Helldivers 2 here...
Democracy is always welcomed
The joys of getting an early 16, you got an imperfect unit! Definitely holds its own when it comes to gaming when ray-tracing isn't involved.
According to the Framework discord server, the email with the RMA request should have said to ignore the batch number that was included. I'm not sure why it's included in the email in the first place, but your RMA has higher priority than that.
The email wasn’t very clear, the message from customer service seemed to be telling me disregard the part of the email that said I would be charged for the replacement laptop. I’ll address it in my next video.
I've been enjoying my Batch 3 machine. Haven't installed the GPU-less module yet but wondering if i should to see if i have a similar issue. Thanks for the vid!
Probably a good idea to test it.
Just did. Works fine and only got to 80 degrees in a 10 minute Cinebench R23 stress test. Swap was pretty easy, but it takes enough time that I don't see people doing it on the fly. I think most will pick their favorite configuration and go with that. @@gwenmorse8059
super helpful video! I really appreciate you testing these games on Linux too! It's super helpful for me and not many other youtubers test for it :)
Seriously.
Nice review; thank you for including Linux as well.
Nice video!
Just FYI I believe CS2 is capped at 200 fps by default.
You can remove the cap with "fps_max 0" in the console (which you can enable in advanced settings)
I removed the cap. The FPS goes well above 200, especially on Linux.
@@ElevatedSystemsOh, awesome! I just had to ask haha
Finally, yes!
I hope that framework open-sources the GPU module as well, mqybe then we will be able to hack another gpu to the laptop ourselves if the community grows enough
They have already open sourced the module and the x8 PCIe interface.
I'm definitely looking forward to the repaired version. I definitely like the vision of framework, and look at it as a long term replacement for my gaming laptop. It is from an era that still retains user serviceable parts (2018) which i have updated to last into my now 6th year of this laptop. It is showing its age though with its i-7-7700 and Nvidia 1070 starting to fall behind on minimum or recommended specs.
When it's time, you can just swap out the motherboard and it's a brand new laptop.
I'm in the same camp! I'm still using my almost 7.5 year old laptop (from end of 2016) with i7 6700HQ and GTX 1060. It helps that I'm not into that much of the new AAA games (except BG3, which works very well on 1080p). But on the work side, when I have to compile stuff (both for work and most of the programs I use, since I'm on Gentoo) while it's not terrible, I do know that a modern 8 core CPU would be so much better.
Thing is, I'm kinda set to get an Intel CPU, so Framework 16 isn't an option yet. And I'd like an AMD or Intel GPU too, but with at least 12 GB VRAM. Also, since I plan on using this for at least 7 more years (preferably 10), I want it to be able to support 128 GB of RAM, preferably at 6000 MT/s. Unfortunately such a laptop simply doesn't exist. Something like MSI Titan might be close, except for the GPU. Also, while I'm perfectly ok with a 17-18" laptop (the current one is 17.3" and weight over 4Kg which I know for many is a deal breaker, but it's perfectly ok for me, I don't mind carring it around), I actually do want it at the same time to be decently power efficient, both CPU and GPU. So I don't want the top of the line for them.
On the power efficiency side, the most neat thing about Framework 16 is the ability to simply remove the GPU when you don't need it. When the battery module will appear, allowing you go to over 100 Wh, it will be the best laptop for travelling!
I'm curious why you would prefer Intel when AMD is more efficient and has better internal graphics if you remove the card. I can only guess you don't want to figure out how to Gentoo for AMD. I will say removing the graphics expansion seems like more work than it's worth. Or at least finding the screwdriver is for me
@@FrankPhartzzz Oh, it's not about figuring out AMD on Gentoo. CPU-wise I'm not even sure if it's something different. Especially since on mobile you don't have 2 types of cores on AMD, it might even be easier.
It's simply more like "support the underdog". I know, sounds weird to call Intel the underdog, but they're certainly still in catch-up mode, so to speak. Intel also usually has better RAM support, though in the last generation it's not so much.
Also, with something like Meteor Lake, I'm curious if I can make it very very power efficient. I haven't dwelved too much into that territory, since on this old laptop, it's a desktop replacement, even when new, the battery was still more like a large UPS rather than something you can rely more than 1 hour on.
So, with MTL, you have those 2 LP E-cores. With Gentoo, I can control quite easily what I have installed and what's on. It should give decent control in order to achieve actual very good battery life. I do feel like this area hasn't been properly explored.
Still, no Framework with MTL, I would've gotten a Framework 13 one, even though I prefer 16+ laptops.
Buut, still on why Intel vs AMD, I'm actually quite excited about Lunar Lake. Even though I hate the idea of have soldered memory, Lunar Lake will be like those ARM chips (including the M ones from Apple) that not only does have soldered RAM, but it has it on the CPU chip. And it's tuned for low power. With this finally Intel+AMD will have something comparable to what Apple (and ARM) has, and can show that ARM by itself it's not THAT MUCH more power efficient. With Lunar Lake, I expect that everybody will be able to work 8+ hours on battery on it. And have on-battery duration comparable with Apple M chips. I mean, I think with Lunar Lake, we'll have a new era of 13" ultra portable laptops that will truly last an entire day of work.
@Winnetou17 Lunar Lake's on package RAM won't be repeated; Intel has confirmed that. I can almost guarantee that Framework will never offer it because of the soldered nature of it as well as its higher than Arrow Lake and Zen 5 price. So if you want something power efficient and with a good amount of RAM (above 32 GB), either it doesn't exist or you'll have to pay around $3000 for a Asus ProArt P16, and that has a 60 hz screen.
I had some issues with my Framework Laptop 13 I got last year. It shipped missing one of the expansion card slot buttons and a slight "underbite" with the bottom case. I had to take A LOT of pictures and a similar back and forth with Framework. They DID EVENTUALLY MAKE THINGS RIGHT and I never got the impression that they didn't want to help me, they just wanted a lot of info before sending replacement parts. At the end of the day, I really like my machine but I would caution less tech-inclined folx to hold a bit more of a patient and forgiving mindset compared to a long-established manufacturer like Apple.
If you tried to show these problems Apple they'd just laugh and charge you a fortune to fix it.
Interesting to 3D print expansion bay for iGPU with just passive cooling, but removing fans and adding big radiator.
I *have* to ask, as it is very important: On Ubuntu, did you use the Steam Snap package? It is known to have a lot of issues.
I installed from the multiverse repo.
Thanks for recording something playing over the speaking while the fans were going.
As fast as bang for your buck, if you're looking for an eGPU the Blade 18 is the only competitor and much more expensive.
Nice! Shame that you need to get a replacement unit, though based on how long the batch 4 delay seems to have been I hope they may have fixed some QC issues. Do you happen to be able to test any VR gaming performance?
No. I can’t wear VR headsets due to a TBI.
@@ElevatedSystems oh damn I’m sorry.
It's a work machine. That just happens to have a few of my favorite games installed. They're only charging between $4-500 for the GPU which seems pretty competitive with anything from Nvidia. It's definitely more than enough for my gaming needs for quite a while, but I'll still be upgrading it for work when better GPUs are released. My one complaint is the price, but I also put my preorder in at the end of the GPU shortage so it wasn't that much difference, although I bought memory and SSD elsewhere
looks like framework is going to be the only laptop i look at this next time i buy a laptop.
Such a great video and thank you for your service. We see you.
Great review. Thanks for your hard work.
Thanks for your review of the framework.
Man, this looks like it took a lot of work to make. Much appreciated.
Might I suggest one thing for Linux gaming? Don't use Ubuntu for gaming. There is a reason why valve didn't use it. It normally comes with an older kernel, and you'd miss out on improvements. I'd venture for Fedora or anything Arch based like Endeavour OS or Garuda Linux. Garuda dragonized might be your best bet since it comes packed with all the gaming requirements.
unfortunately as of today that's what framework has to support understandably so i mean, but yeah.
@@asunavk69 I posted a link to their site where it shows that officially, they support Ubuntu and Fedora. Unofficially, they support a ton others. TH-cam removed it of course. Fedora (or nobara, a gaming distro based on Fedora) would be a much better choice since it always has the latest kernel.
@@asunavk69Have you tried Fedora? Also officially supported.
4:56 Mangohud is basically Rivatuner for Linux.
And unfortunately it wouldn’t work on the OEM kernel.
I'm sure he knows
Helldivers is still pretty rough around the edges, but thanks for checking it out
The first gen 13 did sell for a very low price recently (as factory b-stock). So maybe the 16 could do the same in a few years time but then hopefully have improved dedicated GPU modules as well (as that would be the primary upgrade over the CPU/motherboard). That or 2nd market would be the best options to get it for better price (thereby still not an option right now).
I never had good experience with Ubuntu with multiple laptops and desktops. After Mint and some other Ubuntu based distros I tried Manjaro and have been using it for almost 4 years now. I even share my home folder with nvidia based laptop and my full amd system desktop and it works as it should. Manjaro ,and probably arch, have the magic sauce Ubuntu lacks so much for stability and gaming.
I guess Starfield already had FSR upscaling on.
Frame generation doesnt improve latency like typical increases in frame rate does but rather only smoothing the movements with the generated frames. So I would only suggest turning it on if the latency is good enough and you enjoy the smoothness it brings.
Chimera os, holo iso and Nobara Os wouldve had gamescope mode with performance metrics and they might have better drivers than ubuntu
Great review, love the linux tests! Will you do iGPU section of the video when you get the replacement? It'd be very appreciated :)
You should probably watch the rest of the series.
I've been watching you for a couple of weeks and i have one question...
Why do you have this few Subscribers? I enjoy your videos as much as probably no ones in this scene. I guess it's probably because i don't like these overedited videos while most do but still.
I hope to see even more funky Framewkork stuff from you in the future
I have just one thing: Why don't you test a racing game next time 😉
Was this done using the Framework 16 Driver Bundle set. Or Using AMD Chipset and updated Adrenaline Software?
Nice!!
i wish the gpu could handle native res way better. it's a good laptop with a great screen but its obvious that gpu isn't a high enough tier for 1600p
Thanks for the review. It's sad to see your unit has many issues. What can I do to thoroughly tested mine to make sure it has no issues? Your issue should have been caught by QC. LTT did a video on their factory, but it seems like QC is failing to do their job. Upon checking the framework community forums, people have had backwards spacers.
Can you do a video explaining what we can do to test our units please?
My model isn't like that at all. My model has been great on Arch (btw 😂) and I've never had any issues unlike with many Windows laptops.
If i wasnt already the proud owner of a beast desktop i would have upgraded from my 13 to the 16. But as it is It think ill just use steam link and moonlight/sunshine for gaming on the go (for now at least)
RE mangohud and Wayland issues. I think this is the OEM kernel and gnome being picky. Ill have to reach out to one of my 16 owning friends to let me try on fedora KDE (probably gonna wait for fedora 40 tho)
Further edit. I think you need to run proton experimental for helldivers at the moment. I'm playing it on fedora. Either that or you fell for the Snap version of steam like some others have.
It's not the Snap install and I tried several Proton versions, including experimental.
Curious, at 19:55 you mention battery drain on AC, as well as a dip in performance as battery percent drops. Are you saying that while plugged into AC power, as the battery percent dropped, so did performance, even while on AC power?
Yes, at 20% battery while plugged in the performance dropped. Not a lot but it was noticeable. I was playing cyberpunk 2077 and avg FPS went from the low 70’s to the high 50’s. Battery drain also stopped at that point so I assume it wasn’t supplementing from the battery anymore. I’ll be doing more testing when I get the replacement laptop.
@@ElevatedSystems Thank you so much for the clarification. Seems like it would only be a real issue if you are running a game that is heavy on CPU and GPU load at the same time.. for an extended amount of time.
It would be interesting, how the FW 16 would perform with Core Ultra and A770M combo. Also I don´t understand AMD why the big gap between the 7700S/7600M XT and 7900M? Something like 7700M XT or 7800M with the core count between the 7600 and 7900 and around 115-120W which the FW16 cooling solution should be able to handle. Love the FW16, not cheap but hey... Hope it will get more CPU/GPU options in the future. Then I´m sold.
Hey! Thanks for your video, I'd be interested to see how Framework support handles your non-functional/unfit GPU-less bay module.
They are replacing the entire laptop and all the modules, unfortunately that replacement unit is in batch 18 so I probably won’t see it for a long time.
Why does the RMA replacement have to come after the last batch? They should have quite a few units from cancelled preorders.
As a Framework 13 owner, I find the fit and finish issues on the 16 a little surprising. My AMD framework 13 is very well put together and feels rather premium. Dare I say almost macbook quality.
The 16 inch model has been far better than other Linux-first laptops. Those other laptops feel like the trimmings of better laptops, which is to say, really bad.
Sooo, that means that we'll see the next episode in ... weeks ? Months ? I hope with how well the unit fares in general, what the changes are, what issues it still has.
It's a bit sad that Framework 16 overall seems pretty underwhelming. Part of it because AMD GPU, part of it because Linux issues (for those who want to run it) and part of it because it's new and still has quirks to solve and things to smooth. Only one is in their control, but added up, it's a bit rough. I hope they manage to fix the issues and come with improvements as they did with Framework 13, the world would be better with this.
It just means I can only test the system with the dGPU installed which my next two episodes will need anyway. 3D design & Game Dev. So I should get them out each week until I receive the replacement. At which time I’ll de a detailed comparison of the old and new.
Would it be possible to force it to use the iGPU through software. E.g disable the 7700s in the device manager.
@@Educatedshrimp yes but it’s an entirely different cooling system so not a valid test.
@@ElevatedSystems Cool, thanks for the reply!
@@ElevatedSystems fair point. Thanks for replying
Is it possible to try benchmarking the FW 16 by disconnecting the battery via the BIOS? Because if intense gaming sessions use the battery while plugged in, I'm curious to know if that would bottle neck the laptop
That's not recommended because this laptop will take charge from power and battery while gaming.
This is why I would only buy a 16 but with a occulink adapter. That 7700s is terribly priced and I understand that its a niche form factor.
Is this a benchmark with the 7700S?
This is just random thought, how about mini gaming console using framework module, pair it with little screen and controller module 🤯
Ubuntu LTS is probably one of the worst distros to game on. I would recommend sticking with Pop OS if you want an Ubuntu like experience. Pop OS provides the latest kernel and mesa. Which is probably your problem. Manufacturers listing and "supporting" Ubuntu is basically useless for a general user. It is more of a corporate certification if the laptop would be used for a company. I could not imagine why a general linux user buying this laptop would ever put Ubuntu on it. They are more likely going to be using Pop, Arch, Fedora, or Nobara. That is if they plan on gaming.
Heck, Fedora is also supported but I'd be careful because of the codec issues on Fedora.
You mentioned in your 7840u video that the Framework gets hot and the 1 fan can get loud, would it be wise to apply liquid metal to the APU since the heatsink is copper?
No, the FW16 was specially designed to contain the liquid metal so it doesn't leak and short things out. The FW13 was not.
To be clear: it is already a Liquid Metal applied laptop from factory. Changing it out is more likely to cause issues.
@@Lovedbychrist1 I'm talking about the Framework 13 not the 16 to be clear
@@ElevatedSystemsWhat if I applied Thermal Grizzly TG shield around the chip itself so liquid metal doesn't spill or leak leading to short circuiting?
ES: The story was the same on Linux...
Me: Haha, yeah, why would the game's story be different in Lin... oooh, I see what you meant.
hey i play apex most people play on lowest settings and it looks fine with it
It's a shame these computers are so expensive. Who would pay thousands of dollars for a heavy laptop with "ok" specs.
i'm trying to run some games on the APU under linux mint and performance is absolutely abysmal. some games won't launch at all, other games run at 1fps. support is nonexistent, of course; linux is perfect and there is no reason to believe the hardware isn't properly configured...
What games? What launcher?
@@ElevatedSystems just tried bg3 and re2 in steam. ubuntu froze during the os install, cinnamint froze during the games... now i'm trying mint edge but the wifi is trickling in.
Linux Mint is not great for gaming with such an old kernel and Mesa versions.
massive.
What’s interesting is also since it’s upgradable… this is ideally the worst the Framework 16 will ever be.
If this had an intel cpu and nvidia dedicated gpu pick it up in a heartbeat.
AMD is way better than Intel make the switch
Its intended to also support Linux well. That combo of hardware is a big no.
@@notjustforhackers4252 Ehhh, newer Nvidia GPUs have some support for Linux, and Intel isn't too bad on linux either. AMD is always a bit jankier.
@@sheeplord4976 AMD is plug and play on Linux and is absolutely fantastic, heard of the Steam Deck?. You sound like you're talking about Linux from 10 years ago.
ATI's Linux support before AMD bought them was legitimately horrible. Basically even worse than Nvidia was.
I think Nvidia is refusing to work with Framework unfortunately.
Unfornatly with only ubuntu support and as is the configuration, this seems like a big achiles heel for linux gaming, hopefully someone steps in and adds support specially for arch linux as its best for gaming.
But for now i'd even come as far to say my below 1k$ legion 5 with nvidia still is a better experience than this even on linux, but there is hope.
If I remember correctly they also support Fedora. Which is not Ubuntu, but still, it's more cutting edge.
On the Arch side (maybe Gentoo side as well) I think it should be very doable to make it your own. Haven't searched, but I assume that whatever firmware, kernel configuration, kernel patches etc they are using should be available, so you can replicate them on an Arch install. Heck, probably the community will do something like that soon. Now, the Framework 16 is kinda new, so I expect rough edges, so to speak, for the remainder of the year. So if you don't need it now, wait for it to improve.
Regarding your Legion 5, depending on the exact NVidia GPU, it might be overall better than this forever. I mean, a RTX 3080 mobile GPU surely does better than a RX 7700 GPU. Though at below $1k, you problably don't have that. So if 3070 or lower, I expect that eventually this Framework will be better.
@@Winnetou17 yes thats what i mean, this laptop if it gets the loves it needs from linux side than it should be amazing, bear in mind i am aware my laptop is a windows focused device, but for the price and due to lenovo being a solid manufacturer does add up abit.
Regarding gpu, mine is a 3060, but regarding linux nvidia is not there yet, that said idk much about amd mobile grafics too, their drivers are pretty good tho, and with radv, being the bang for your buck when beimg about linux, but as is if its just ubuntu then its a huge waste of performance if its were framework efforts goes on to(but yeah exicited to see from community, etc), fedora well idk,imo i prefer over ubuntu too but arch imo is the king for overall desktop usage, best packaging and tinkering.
That said would require further testing to see how well it goes.
For me i see no linux comparison... he has played on wincrap.
So not a good test
I tested Windows 11 and Ubuntu 22.04 which is one of the two officially supported Linux distros.
Shame the integrated doesnt work
make a framework tablet!
Bro hasnt heard of mangohud
Bro didn’t watch the video. 🤦🏻
Bro was diplomatic about it but that is dog $#!t performance for a $2500 laptop. All that money for a low end gaming laptop and they can’t at least get it built right? Pathetic!
Truth to be told if this was coming from Apple or HP/ASUS/MSI/Lenovo, the reviewers would've dunked on. Especially if it wouldn't be so open and repairable.
On Framework people (including me) are more forgiving, because they're still a pretty small team and this is still at the beginning of the road. But other than their stated mission, they're shown that they're really on it with Framework 13, so if it continues the same on Framework 16, then it will turn to be quite nice.
This first model, even with all the fixes and improvements, will always be on the expensive side on price/performance rating. But the next years, I think this will get better and into the competitive territorry.
And it is upgradeable. My notebook costs the same and I can throw it away when I want a new GPU.
I'm keeping my Batch 11 for now but Framework, if you're reading, this is unacceptable. The replacement device should be straight from Batch 5. This is the first and last pre order I do from you. If there will be a next Framework laptop for me after the 16, I will sure as hell wait for the pre order phase to be over. Absolutely not acceptable your patrons and early adopters get this garbage treatment that is way worse than what you would get from even Lenovo.
If linux was not free, noone would be using it, lol.
...What does this have to do with Framework?
You seem to need the Zen Kernel or Nobara 6.8.7-201.fsync.fc39.x86_64Kernel